Really scary to think that he has been indited under a law that was brought into being in WW1 and that there are no public interest or non constitutional defences to the charges.
Edward Snowdon reminds me of Winston Smith, guess Big Brother really is watching.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Theres very little privacy left, cctv & gps signals make it easy to track peoples movements.
Its also worth noting that in the time thats passed since Snowden revealed all this governments (both here and elsewhere) are trying to gain more powers to monitor the communications of ordinary citizens.
All for own protection of course  |
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I don't know about others, but I am not adverse to a DNA data base, carrying a biometric ID card or being monitored. Provided it is all done openly.
Where I have serious issues with the system is the covert nature of it. What is the point of surveillance and information gathering if the authorities then fail to act on the information because it would alert those being watched to being watched? It seems strange to me that criminal cases collapse because evidence of guilt is not presented because it would expose members of the security services or their methods and abilities (and therefore by extension crimes must be allowed to occur for the same reason). It seems even stranger that 3 teenage girls can board a flight to Turkey and be gone days before the security services know about it!
Maybe we would all be better off if our governments were less interested in secrecy and control, and more interested in protecting those they are supposed to serve.
Bet I am on quite a few watch lists...
Maybe I even help keep someone employed!
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I don't know about others, but I am not adverse to a DNA data base, carrying a biometric ID card or being monitored. Provided it is all done openly.
Where I have serious issues with the system is the covert nature of it. What is the point of surveillance and information gathering if the authorities then fail to act on the information because it would alert those being watched to being watched? It seems strange to me that criminal cases collapse because evidence of guilt is not presented because it would expose members of the security services or their methods and abilities (and therefore by extension crimes must be allowed to occur for the same reason). It seems even stranger that 3 teenage girls can board a flight to Turkey and be gone days before the security services know about it!
Maybe we would all be better off if our governments were less interested in secrecy and control, and more interested in protecting those they are supposed to serve.
Bet I am on quite a few watch lists...
Maybe I even help keep someone employed!
"
.
I'm actually on the police records as a domestic extremist because of my attendance's at environmental rallies.
I know this as I paid my fee to see my file under the data protection act. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I don't know about others, but I am not adverse to a DNA data base, carrying a biometric ID card or being monitored. Provided it is all done openly.
Where I have serious issues with the system is the covert nature of it. What is the point of surveillance and information gathering if the authorities then fail to act on the information because it would alert those being watched to being watched? It seems strange to me that criminal cases collapse because evidence of guilt is not presented because it would expose members of the security services or their methods and abilities (and therefore by extension crimes must be allowed to occur for the same reason). It seems even stranger that 3 teenage girls can board a flight to Turkey and be gone days before the security services know about it!
Maybe we would all be better off if our governments were less interested in secrecy and control, and more interested in protecting those they are supposed to serve.
Bet I am on quite a few watch lists...
Maybe I even help keep someone employed!
.
I'm actually on the police records as a domestic extremist because of my attendance's at environmental rallies.
I know this as I paid my fee to see my file under the data protection act."
similar story to my own (mainly CND events), i'm sure there are many people on lists that just don't know it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I don't know about others, but I am not adverse to a DNA data base, carrying a biometric ID card or being monitored. Provided it is all done openly.
Where I have serious issues with the system is the covert nature of it. What is the point of surveillance and information gathering if the authorities then fail to act on the information because it would alert those being watched to being watched? It seems strange to me that criminal cases collapse because evidence of guilt is not presented because it would expose members of the security services or their methods and abilities (and therefore by extension crimes must be allowed to occur for the same reason). It seems even stranger that 3 teenage girls can board a flight to Turkey and be gone days before the security services know about it!
Maybe we would all be better off if our governments were less interested in secrecy and control, and more interested in protecting those they are supposed to serve.
Bet I am on quite a few watch lists...
Maybe I even help keep someone employed!
"
I can't disagree with you, as well as the secrecy aspect, my issue is that due to human nature many people in positions of power/trust would/do misuse the powers they have and the powers they seek. |
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"I don't know about others, but I am not adverse to a DNA data base, carrying a biometric ID card or being monitored. Provided it is all done openly.
Where I have serious issues with the system is the covert nature of it. What is the point of surveillance and information gathering if the authorities then fail to act on the information because it would alert those being watched to being watched? It seems strange to me that criminal cases collapse because evidence of guilt is not presented because it would expose members of the security services or their methods and abilities (and therefore by extension crimes must be allowed to occur for the same reason). It seems even stranger that 3 teenage girls can board a flight to Turkey and be gone days before the security services know about it!
Maybe we would all be better off if our governments were less interested in secrecy and control, and more interested in protecting those they are supposed to serve.
Bet I am on quite a few watch lists...
Maybe I even help keep someone employed!
.
I'm actually on the police records as a domestic extremist because of my attendance's at environmental rallies.
I know this as I paid my fee to see my file under the data protection act.
similar story to my own (mainly CND events), i'm sure there are many people on lists that just don't know it."
Funilly enough, I am pro nuclear weapons and think CND's arguments are severely flawed but again it is a debate that is stifled because of secrecy. (Starting a nuclear cascade is not difficult if you have the right materials. In fact it has a name, it is called 'tickling the dragon's tail'. But I digress).
If anyone truly believes that atomic weapons have no place in the world all they need to do is read the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances (1994), note its signatories, look at what is happening in The Ukraine and contrast that against the regular attacks made by North Korea against its neighbours.
Ask yourself 2 questions, would the Russian Federation be attacking Ukraine (they are) if Ukraine still had a nuclear arsenal? Would the rest of the world tolerate North Korea's aggression if it did not have the bomb?
I truly believe that secrecy allows too many unhelpful misconceptions to develop where facts and realities are hidden. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I don't know about others, but I am not adverse to a DNA data base, carrying a biometric ID card or being monitored. Provided it is all done openly.
Where I have serious issues with the system is the covert nature of it. What is the point of surveillance and information gathering if the authorities then fail to act on the information because it would alert those being watched to being watched? It seems strange to me that criminal cases collapse because evidence of guilt is not presented because it would expose members of the security services or their methods and abilities (and therefore by extension crimes must be allowed to occur for the same reason). It seems even stranger that 3 teenage girls can board a flight to Turkey and be gone days before the security services know about it!
Maybe we would all be better off if our governments were less interested in secrecy and control, and more interested in protecting those they are supposed to serve.
Bet I am on quite a few watch lists...
Maybe I even help keep someone employed!
.
I'm actually on the police records as a domestic extremist because of my attendance's at environmental rallies.
I know this as I paid my fee to see my file under the data protection act.
similar story to my own (mainly CND events), i'm sure there are many people on lists that just don't know it."
.
Lol it's a friggin joke, did you pay to see yours, mine was actually quite funny.
They reckon there's about 30,000 people held on the police data base as domestic extremists and being classed as that, it gives them powers to snoop on you, track your emails, track your movements, log your friends, where you work, who you meet!!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I don't know about others, but I am not adverse to a DNA data base, carrying a biometric ID card or being monitored. Provided it is all done openly.
Where I have serious issues with the system is the covert nature of it. What is the point of surveillance and information gathering if the authorities then fail to act on the information because it would alert those being watched to being watched? It seems strange to me that criminal cases collapse because evidence of guilt is not presented because it would expose members of the security services or their methods and abilities (and therefore by extension crimes must be allowed to occur for the same reason). It seems even stranger that 3 teenage girls can board a flight to Turkey and be gone days before the security services know about it!
Maybe we would all be better off if our governments were less interested in secrecy and control, and more interested in protecting those they are supposed to serve.
Bet I am on quite a few watch lists...
Maybe I even help keep someone employed!
.
I'm actually on the police records as a domestic extremist because of my attendance's at environmental rallies.
I know this as I paid my fee to see my file under the data protection act.
similar story to my own (mainly CND events), i'm sure there are many people on lists that just don't know it.
Funilly enough, I am pro nuclear weapons and think CND's arguments are severely flawed but again it is a debate that is stifled because of secrecy. (Starting a nuclear cascade is not difficult if you have the right materials. In fact it has a name, it is called 'tickling the dragon's tail'. But I digress).
If anyone truly believes that atomic weapons have no place in the world all they need to do is read the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances (1994), note its signatories, look at what is happening in The Ukraine and contrast that against the regular attacks made by North Korea against its neighbours.
Ask yourself 2 questions, would the Russian Federation be attacking Ukraine (they are) if Ukraine still had a nuclear arsenal? Would the rest of the world tolerate North Korea's aggression if it did not have the bomb?
I truly believe that secrecy allows too many unhelpful misconceptions to develop where facts and realities are hidden. "
. Although I respect your stance on nuclear weapons.
Your argument is flawed as well.
South Korea is in a nuclear alliance and the north still attack them!.
Pakistan and India have nuclear weapons and they still have troubles.
Unfortunately the secret for them is out and can not be held back from other countries much longer, so I can probably have some allegiance to your stand point. |
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"I don't know about others, but I am not adverse to a DNA data base, carrying a biometric ID card or being monitored. Provided it is all done openly.
Where I have serious issues with the system is the covert nature of it. What is the point of surveillance and information gathering if the authorities then fail to act on the information because it would alert those being watched to being watched? It seems strange to me that criminal cases collapse because evidence of guilt is not presented because it would expose members of the security services or their methods and abilities (and therefore by extension crimes must be allowed to occur for the same reason). It seems even stranger that 3 teenage girls can board a flight to Turkey and be gone days before the security services know about it!
Maybe we would all be better off if our governments were less interested in secrecy and control, and more interested in protecting those they are supposed to serve.
Bet I am on quite a few watch lists...
Maybe I even help keep someone employed!
.
I'm actually on the police records as a domestic extremist because of my attendance's at environmental rallies.
I know this as I paid my fee to see my file under the data protection act.
similar story to my own (mainly CND events), i'm sure there are many people on lists that just don't know it.
Funilly enough, I am pro nuclear weapons and think CND's arguments are severely flawed but again it is a debate that is stifled because of secrecy. (Starting a nuclear cascade is not difficult if you have the right materials. In fact it has a name, it is called 'tickling the dragon's tail'. But I digress).
If anyone truly believes that atomic weapons have no place in the world all they need to do is read the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances (1994), note its signatories, look at what is happening in The Ukraine and contrast that against the regular attacks made by North Korea against its neighbours.
Ask yourself 2 questions, would the Russian Federation be attacking Ukraine (they are) if Ukraine still had a nuclear arsenal? Would the rest of the world tolerate North Korea's aggression if it did not have the bomb?
I truly believe that secrecy allows too many unhelpful misconceptions to develop where facts and realities are hidden. . Although I respect your stance on nuclear weapons.
Your argument is flawed as well.
South Korea is in a nuclear alliance and the north still attack them!.
Pakistan and India have nuclear weapons and they still have troubles.
Unfortunately the secret for them is out and can not be held back from other countries much longer, so I can probably have some allegiance to your stand point."
All of the examples you give provide grist to my mill, because those conflicts are kept to nothing more than border skirmishes and never allowed become so volition that they gain their own momentum and escalate to open warfare.
By the way are you familiar with the rule of 3? (That is Sect 1.1 (a) (b) and (c) of the Official Secrets Act 1911?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
By the way are you familiar with the rule of 3? (That is Sect 1.1 (a) (b) and (c) of the Official Secrets Act 1911? "
you've got to love the part that says its not necessary to prove that the accused person is guilty.
And people still believe in innocent until proven guilty  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I don't know about others, but I am not adverse to a DNA data base, carrying a biometric ID card or being monitored. Provided it is all done openly.
Where I have serious issues with the system is the covert nature of it. What is the point of surveillance and information gathering if the authorities then fail to act on the information because it would alert those being watched to being watched? It seems strange to me that criminal cases collapse because evidence of guilt is not presented because it would expose members of the security services or their methods and abilities (and therefore by extension crimes must be allowed to occur for the same reason). It seems even stranger that 3 teenage girls can board a flight to Turkey and be gone days before the security services know about it!
Maybe we would all be better off if our governments were less interested in secrecy and control, and more interested in protecting those they are supposed to serve.
Bet I am on quite a few watch lists...
Maybe I even help keep someone employed!
.
I'm actually on the police records as a domestic extremist because of my attendance's at environmental rallies.
I know this as I paid my fee to see my file under the data protection act.
similar story to my own (mainly CND events), i'm sure there are many people on lists that just don't know it.
Funilly enough, I am pro nuclear weapons and think CND's arguments are severely flawed but again it is a debate that is stifled because of secrecy. (Starting a nuclear cascade is not difficult if you have the right materials. In fact it has a name, it is called 'tickling the dragon's tail'. But I digress).
If anyone truly believes that atomic weapons have no place in the world all they need to do is read the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances (1994), note its signatories, look at what is happening in The Ukraine and contrast that against the regular attacks made by North Korea against its neighbours.
Ask yourself 2 questions, would the Russian Federation be attacking Ukraine (they are) if Ukraine still had a nuclear arsenal? Would the rest of the world tolerate North Korea's aggression if it did not have the bomb?
I truly believe that secrecy allows too many unhelpful misconceptions to develop where facts and realities are hidden. . Although I respect your stance on nuclear weapons.
Your argument is flawed as well.
South Korea is in a nuclear alliance and the north still attack them!.
Pakistan and India have nuclear weapons and they still have troubles.
Unfortunately the secret for them is out and can not be held back from other countries much longer, so I can probably have some allegiance to your stand point.
All of the examples you give provide grist to my mill, because those conflicts are kept to nothing more than border skirmishes and never allowed become so volition that they gain their own momentum and escalate to open warfare.
By the way are you familiar with the rule of 3? (That is Sect 1.1 (a) (b) and (c) of the Official Secrets Act 1911? "
.
I wasn't until I got involved with the green party.
It's funny what you learn in a left wing environmental group. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Facebook was full of Brits updates. Barely anyone mentioned this film.
People care more about some old bint falling over than their privacy being eroded. |
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http://www.channel4.com/programmes/citizenfour/on-demand/58860-001