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Margaret Thatcher V Tony Blair
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 And who did the most damage?  | |||
 **fuss runs away...like a girl cos she is a girl**** | |||
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"Who did most good for the uk? And who did the most damage? "none of them and both  | |||
" **fuss runs away...like a girl cos she is a girl****"Ahh but did you run like Thatcher or Blair? | |||
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"Blair did the most good for me, in introducing policies like Minimum Wage, Minimum Income Guarantee for families and pensioners. Thatcher seemed to have one main aim, and that was to dismantle the Working Class." Not so much dismantle the Working Class, but drag them out of rows of terraced housing, remove their flat caps and tell them they can aspire to be something better. Here's a house for a start. I don't think there was too much wrong with that. She is a humble grocer's daughter herself so it's not as though she didn't understand the working class. I think both Blair and Thatcher have had an enormous impact in Britain in their respective times in office, and continue to do so. Thatcher not so much as she's a bit doo-lally now, but Blair is involved in an organisation promoting religious harmony across all faiths. That has to be a good thing. | |||
" **fuss runs away...like a girl cos she is a girl****
Ahh but did you run like Thatcher or Blair?"Blair....cos i recon he runs like a girl too  | |||
"I can't remember a single thing Blair did that was of benefit, he kind of just treaded water and killed Arabs. " Hong Kong handover; Independence for the Bank of England; Belfast Agreement; Human Rights Act; devolution to Scotland and Wales; House of Lords Reform; Minimum wage introduced; creation of Greater London Authority and Mayoralty of London; Civil Partnership Act; Constitutional Reform Act " Thatcher did sort out a lot of shit but also was responsible for a lot of shit. She didn't kill any Arabs but she did kill lots of Argentinians. " First female Prime Minister of the UK. Falklands War; sold council housing to tenants (right to buy); privatisation of many previously government-owned industries; decreased the power of trade unions; negotiation of the UK rebate towards the European Community budget; Sino-British joint declaration; Anglo-Irish Agreement; abolition of GLC; Section 28; the end of the Cold War. (she wasn't responsible for that personally but it was heralded in her term of office) " I suppose it boils down to which you prefer dead the most, Arabs or Argentinians? Then you have your answer." A very blinkered view of two people who had 11 years and 10 years in office respectively. | |||
"Who did most good for the uk? And who did the most damage? " | |||
" *This post is in no way political*" You gotta be kidding me! How the devil can you post on a thread about two leaders - one Tory, one Labour, state you are a Labour supporter and then duck behind the 'this is not a political post' parapet? | |||
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"I can't remember a single thing Blair did that was of benefit, he kind of just treaded water and killed Arabs. Hong Kong handover; Independence for the Bank of England; Belfast Agreement; Human Rights Act; devolution to Scotland and Wales; House of Lords Reform; Minimum wage introduced; creation of Greater London Authority and Mayoralty of London; Civil Partnership Act; Constitutional Reform Act Thatcher did sort out a lot of shit but also was responsible for a lot of shit. She didn't kill any Arabs but she did kill lots of Argentinians. First female Prime Minister of the UK. Falklands War; sold council housing to tenants (right to buy); privatisation of many previously government-owned industries; decreased the power of trade unions; negotiation of the UK rebate towards the European Community budget; Sino-British joint declaration; Anglo-Irish Agreement; abolition of GLC; Section 28; the end of the Cold War. (she wasn't responsible for that personally but it was heralded in her term of office) I suppose it boils down to which you prefer dead the most, Arabs or Argentinians? Then you have your answer. A very blinkered view of two people who had 11 years and 10 years in office respectively." Phew thanks for all that. I had no idea, here's me thinking they just killed people! I wasn't being droll or sarcy honest! Oops I think I may have been droll and sarcy again sorry. FFS there I go again... and again.. FFS. | |||
" *This post is in no way political* You gotta be kidding me! How the devil can you post on a thread about two leaders - one Tory, one Labour, state you are a Labour supporter and then duck behind the 'this is not a political post' parapet?"  | |||
"As a UK born citizen (Coventry) and having witnessed both sides I simply answered the OP's question! I think my post was for the good work that Tony Blair has achieved in Northern Ireland, but sure you've never lived there or have you/do you? " You highlighted Blair's triumphs and Thatcher's failings, that made it political as it wasn't objective. And no, I've never lived in Nrothern Ireland but I don't think the troubles ending are purely down to Blair. Mo Mowlam played a huge role in the peace process and is recognised as having a direct influence in getting all the parties involved around the table to talk it out. It doesn't matter which side of the political divide one is on, you should always be able to see that each leader has his or her failings and triumphs. They have all done some good and all made some bad decisions too. Thatcher governed at a time when Union power was crippling this country on a regular basis and she identified where our society was broken and set about fixing it. By giving council tenants the right to buy she knew that these new homeowners couldn't afford to strike for year as their homes would be a direct risk of doing so. I recall being forced to join a union in my early working days and I hated that. I should have had the choice but it was all brother this and brother that - and where were these 'brothers' when I was made redundant? I despise unions with a passion as they are all led by self serving egomaniacs who care more about themselves than their members. As for Blair. I genuinely like the guy, I think he is a world class statesman who Brown could only dream about emulating. Blair knew his time - and New Labour's - was coming to an end and got out, handing over to Brown to lose the election. Smart man. History will show him to be one of our greatest leaders and if he'd remained as leader I'm not all that sure Labour would have _ost the election, but Brown wanted his 'turn'. I was definately a 'Blairite' in the early years, but New Labour returned to old Labour and that was it for me. | |||
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"glad someone else mentioned mo mowlem!! im not takin part in this thread as my blood pressure is high as it is and i really need to finish the decorating but i will watch with interest........xx "i'll join you for a glass of milk, whilst I still have some...someone mentioned thatcher......... | |||
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"Who did most good for the uk? And who did the most damage? " | |||
" This hopefully will be a great debacle...... " Probably  But it would be better if it was a good debate instead.....but.......as is normal on these and other threads lately..that doesn't always happen | |||
" This hopefully will be a great debacle...... Probably But it would be better if it was a good debate instead.....but.......as is normal on these and other threads lately..that doesn't always happen "I'd like a good debate too. One where today's problems are not attributed to things that happened 20-30 years ago, but more recently than that, and not all because of what Brown did - even he couldn't have made the mess most of the world is in now all by himself. There can be no doubt that Blair is/was a charismatic man, and his passing from British politics has left a void on the world stage in terms of British representation. Cameron may fill his shoes in time, but not for a while yet. I'm reading Blair's book at the moment and in it he highlights that the first 6 months of a new government are heady days and everyone is still finding their feet. Blair hit the ground running passing swathes of new laws and it's all being forgotten because of the Iraqi war. A war that HAD to take place, regardless of WMDs or not. I admire the man for taking that brave step if not for anything else. This world would be a far more unstable place than it is today had Blair & Bush had not rid it of Saddam Hussein. But let's be under no illusions regarding The Falklands either. Thatcher new she was heading for defeat at the next election and Argentina gave her exactly what she needed - a victory, both in the South Atlantic and at the ballot box, but that's not all she should be remembered for. Mines closed because it was unviable to keep them open. You cannot throw money at a failing industry, it is bad business and unsustainable - any business owner would tell you that. The pits could have remained open for a few more years if Scargill, in his personal vendetta to prove he had bigger balls than Thatcher (which he didn't even though she's a woman and had no balls at all), hadn't taken the miners out of them for a year allowing them to flood out and rendering them useless. Scargill broke the pit industry - not Thatcher. She just wanted to scale it down because she knew how much money was being wasted keeping them open just to provide a job for thousands of people. If it had bee nscaled down over time she could have garnered new business sectors to move into those areas affected and provide the _ost jobs that pit closures wrought. Scargill wouldn't allow her to do that. He wanted his 15 minutes of fame. And he was wrong! A lot of us own our own homes today because of Thatcher, and social housing has proven itself to be a white elephant around the necks of every taxpayer in the UK as housing provided for social misfits who don't give a damn about who's home they are wrecking are living by the mantra of "they'll just give us a new one when we have more fookin kids anyway". So yes, let's have a debate, and be objective about it. For once. Blair did a lot of good, as did Thatcher, and both got quite a few things wrong along the way too, but our society today is better off than it was before either of them had their terms in office. | |||
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"thatcher was more of a figurehead for the country and determined to do more for us!,blair was busy conceding our rights all over the place!. motivated by money and self glory,manipulated by cherie he is now earning more money than premiership footballers,so much money you cannot keep a track of it as it all so well hidden. " Thatcher killed the UK mining industry, sold all the utilities and half of the housing stock. For what? To reduce taxes in the rich. Blair for his failings brought labour forward 20 years, brought in a minimum wage. | |||
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" Thatcher on the other hand wasn't a military adventurist, whilst she responded to the threat/opportunity of the Falkland invasion she didn't commit the UK to any wars of aggression that i can recall. " IMHO Magaret Thatcher knew the Argentinians were going to invade the Falklands and took a gamble on letting them take a stronghold in the country then hoping on our military forces being able to take the country back so she could bathe in the glory! Don`t forget, the Yanks took a back seat on this "little scurmish". Tony Blair had some pretty shit stuff to deal with, some that was none of his making (or at least, as far as we know) I`m talking about the death of Princess Diana and how the country got wrapped up in that. | |||
"Blair for his failings brought labour forward 20 years.......... labour had no option but to change as they were unelectable,hence no prime minister kinnock,foot,smith etc.." John Smith never got the chance to fight for the General Election, he was widely seen as the strongest Labour leader for decades, and the clear choice amongst the party as leader....but died before he got the chance to lead Labour to election victory. | |||
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"Blair for his failings brought labour forward 20 years.......... labour had no option but to change as they were unelectable,hence no prime minister kinnock,foot,smith etc.. John Smith never got the chance to fight for the General Election, he was widely seen as the strongest Labour leader for decades, and the clear choice amongst the party as leader....but died before he got the chance to lead Labour to election victory." I agree with that. I was all set to vote for John Smith and it's a tragic loss to the country that he never got the chance to show his stuff. A real pity that. | |||
"Wonder how many swinging clubs there would be if labour didn’t have a stint in power." Probably dozens more than there are now as the Tories were always at it lol | |||
but doesn’t stop them screaming sinners to us
You have a point though, but even though they were all at it, they still had nuclear families in mind for us mere mortals, amazed they never banned divorce  | |||
"Wonder how many swinging clubs there would be if labour didn’t have a stint in power. Probably dozens more than there are now as the Tories were always at it lol "imagine what it would be like if the libs got in then....really got in i mean | |||
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"Hooray! lol.. now that's what I call objective. "my worst quality,is my honesty. | |||
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"Tony Blair did a lot of good thatcher did some good and a awful lot of bad selling off bt waterboard electric and british gas look at the profits we could be making now "you would be getting charged,much more for everyone of them.competition keeps down prices. | |||
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"thatcher was more of a figurehead for the country and determined to do more for us!,blair was busy conceding our rights all over the place!. motivated by money and self glory,manipulated by cherie he is now earning more money than premiership footballers,so much money you cannot keep a track of it as it all so well hidden. " i actually agreed with you a bit there!! think i need to lie down feel rather faint.....x | |||
"thatcher was more of a figurehead for the country and determined to do more for us!,blair was busy conceding our rights all over the place!. motivated by money and self glory,manipulated by cherie he is now earning more money than premiership footballers,so much money you cannot keep a track of it as it all so well hidden. i actually agreed with you a bit there!! think i need to lie down feel rather faint.....x "It's amazing what happens when you think objectively innit lol We're all still alive so they must have got something right hehehe | |||
"thatcher was more of a figurehead for the country and determined to do more for us!,blair was busy conceding our rights all over the place!. motivated by money and self glory,manipulated by cherie he is now earning more money than premiership footballers,so much money you cannot keep a track of it as it all so well hidden. i actually agreed with you a bit there!! think i need to lie down feel rather faint.....x
It's amazing what happens when you think objectively innit lol
We're all still alive so they must have got something right hehehe "no politician(maybe micheal foot)went into politics,thinking i hope i end up worse of.if you think politicians,are not intrested in making money.you are living in cloud cuckoo land.we just have to hope they are good at there jobs,whilst they are making that money. | |||
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"thatcher was more of a figurehead for the country and determined to do more for us!,blair was busy conceding our rights all over the place!. motivated by money and self glory,manipulated by cherie he is now earning more money than premiership footballers,so much money you cannot keep a track of it as it all so well hidden. i actually agreed with you a bit there!! think i need to lie down feel rather faint.....x
It's amazing what happens when you think objectively innit lol
We're all still alive so they must have got something right hehehe
no politician(maybe micheal foot)went into politics,thinking i hope i end up worse of.if you think politicians,are not intrested in making money.you are living in cloud cuckoo land.we just have to hope they are good at there jobs,whilst they are making that money."some politicians are interested in making money when they enter the house but many are not. In reality being a politician isn't as well paid as comparable jobs in the private sector. In reality the majority of people entering parliament are doing it for their political beliefs and possibly for the kudos and power. Money while it is nice isn't a primary factor. | |||
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"Blair for his failings brought labour forward 20 years.......... labour had no option but to change as they were unelectable,hence no prime minister kinnock,foot,smith etc.. John Smith never got the chance to fight for the General Election, he was widely seen as the strongest Labour leader for decades, and the clear choice amongst the party as leader....but died before he got the chance to lead Labour to election victory." i know john smith died before he had a chance to fight a general election and was the strongest candidate in years to gel all the labour factions behind him,.. i was generalising on labours unelectable policies at the time...even if he'd survived john smith would have _ost due to his policy of tax hikes... | |||
"Thatcher broke the miners and no longer could the miners hold the rest of the country to ransom demanding a 20% pay increase, if not they would strike and the country would have blackouts Thatcher broke the dockers who had jobs for life, even if jailed for theft on the docks got their job back Thatcher broke the steel workers who would strike if didn't get their demands Having lived through the Thatcher years with hardship and hated the woman with a passion, can realise now what she was trying to achieve Tony Blair inherited a countries wealth, interest rates were low money in the bank, some cities were booming, inflation was low, stock market was on the up, yet he managed to blow it all and say no more boom and bust As for Northern Ireland not let us forget the brave Ulster men who fort in two world wars, fighting for King and country for our freedom and so we could put our views across, even in a forum like this The pope and Catholic church blessed the Nazi party going into battle, this is not a secret " An interesting but blinkered view. Thatcher did what she did to strangle the working class. She achieved this quite well. The miners were not being unreasonable asking for a rise just above inflation . You seem to forget under Thatcher the mortgage rate went through the roof. Blair didn’t inherit riches. I think you will find that the Thatcher government had sold them. BT, British gas, the energy boards, the water boards and the list goes on. The pope was in a country under occupation. Priests were threatened and so was the general public. Under those circumstances people do things under duress. | |||
"The pope and Catholic church blessed the Nazi party going into battle, this is not a secret " *Some* German Catholic archbishops allied themselves to the Nazi party after 1933 but there is no evidence to support your claim that the Pope blessed Nazis going into battle, unless his intent, as a man of God, was to bless any soldier going to war. 1930s Germany was made up primarily of Catholics in the The Bavarian region, the Rhineland and Westphalia as well as parts in south-west Germany, whilst the northern industrial heartlands of The Third Reich were heavily Protestant. Hitler was anticlerical and there is evidence to suggest that he planned to do away with the Church in Germany once he'd dispensed with what he considered to be his more immediate enemies. Just thought some clarification on that was neccessary. | |||
"Thatcher broke the miners and no longer could the miners hold the rest of the country to ransom demanding a 20% pay increase, if not they would strike and the country would have blackouts Thatcher broke the dockers who had jobs for life, even if jailed for theft on the docks got their job back Thatcher broke the steel workers who would strike if didn't get their demands Having lived through the Thatcher years with hardship and hated the woman with a passion, can realise now what she was trying to achieve Tony Blair inherited a countries wealth, interest rates were low money in the bank, some cities were booming, inflation was low, stock market was on the up, yet he managed to blow it all and say no more boom and bust As for Northern Ireland not let us forget the brave Ulster men who fort in two world wars, fighting for King and country for our freedom and so we could put our views across, even in a forum like this The pope and Catholic church blessed the Nazi party going into battle, this is not a secret " its one thing to talk politics,quite another to talk religion.religion is pure chance,you dont choose.i am not religious in the least.but can spot a bigot a mile away.youse have no place in society,and seem a bit sad. | |||
"You seem to forget under Thatcher the mortgage rate went through the roof. " That's hardly indicative of a party solely for the rich then is it? I remember double digit mortgage interest rates, it stopped me getting a house just before 1987 when the housing market collapsed. And bloody grateful I was about it too as I'd have been left with a fookin huge mortgage and house worth half what I paid for it. | |||
"its one thing to talk politics,quite another to talk religion.religion is pure chance,you dont choose.i am not religious in the least.but can spot a bigot a mile away.youse have no place in society,and seem a bit sad. "Hey, we're having a debate and he's entitled to his views, which I didn't see as bigoted, merely misinformed. Let's not get this thread deleted too eh? | |||
"You seem to forget under Thatcher the mortgage rate went through the roof. That's hardly indicative of a party solely for the rich then is it? I remember double digit mortgage interest rates, it stopped me getting a house just before 1987 when the housing market collapsed. And bloody grateful I was about it too as I'd have been left with a fookin huge mortgage and house worth half what I paid for it." Prices recovered within a few years and sky rocketed afterwards. The sale of thousands of council houses dented the market as well. Thatcher would have gone into meltdown if it wasn't for the Falklands war. It is well known that incident saved her bacon. | |||
"its one thing to talk politics,quite another to talk religion.religion is pure chance,you dont choose.i am not religious in the least.but can spot a bigot a mile away.youse have no place in society,and seem a bit sad.
Hey, we're having a debate and he's entitled to his views, which I didn't see as bigoted, merely misinformed.
Let's not get this thread deleted too eh?"Well i can agree with you on that point. People are entitled to a view without being abused. | |||
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" Thatcher would have gone into meltdown if it wasn't for the Falklands war. It is well known that incident saved her bacon. " Yes, I agree, her back was to the wall and she was staring defeat at the ballot box in the face. I've watched house prices closely since 1987 and it happens every 10 years or so. A blip, then a sharp decline in prices, which stagnates new builds, leading to a rise in property prices due to fewer houses for sale, until such a time where new builds begin again, house prices rise, a flood of property for sale hits the market and so the price falls again ad infinitum. | |||
" Thatcher would have gone into meltdown if it wasn't for the Falklands war. It is well known that incident saved her bacon. Yes, I agree, her back was to the wall and she was staring defeat at the ballot box in the face. I've watched house prices closely since 1987 and it happens every 10 years or so. A blip, then a sharp decline in prices, which stagnates new builds, leading to a rise in property prices due to fewer houses for sale, until such a time where new builds begin again, house prices rise, a flood of property for sale hits the market and so the price falls again ad infinitum." Some things she did needed to be done. Strikes were at a stupid level and unions had too much power. However council house sales any utility company sales for fast cash has had a knock on effect to the current day. | |||
" Yes, I agree, her back was to the wall and she was staring defeat at the ballot box in the face. ....(all together now) to the sindow, to the wall, till the....oh, I can see maggie turning dancehall queen on the cabinet table right now with cecil parkinson hitting that hoochie up side " | |||
" Yes, I agree, her back was to the wall and she was staring defeat at the ballot box in the face. ....(all together now) to the sindow, to the wall, till the....oh, I can see maggie turning dancehall queen on the cabinet table right now with cecil parkinson hitting that hoochie up side " I think she was a powerful woman and if she had demanded they sing i have no doubt they would have. | |||
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"As for being called a bigot ? well will leave that one alone as they don't know me, but nothing could be further from the truth, I was replying to earlier posts about Northern Ireland and those who should be remembered for bringing peace" a gracious response | |||
"Thatcher inherited high interest rates and souring inflation, the dead were lined up in hospitals, rubbish was mounting on fields as no bin collectors, trains on strike, and yes the miners dockers and steel workers on strike, and the current Labour prime minister was asked what you going to do about the crisis his reply " what crisis" This was 1979 inflation nearly 20% under a labour government, interest rates were out of control, mass strikes, we have had years of blackouts, we were all fed up with it all I worked on the docks and seen how the dockers used them for their own enjoyment, then cried when it all came to an end as they didn't have a job for life As for being called a bigot ? well will leave that one alone as they don't know me, but nothing could be further from the truth, I was replying to earlier posts about Northern Ireland and those who should be remembered for bringing peace" There was a lot of abuse by workers in the 70's and inflation wasn't good but selling off national assets didn't do any good long term. I agree something had to be done as things were not good. Thatcher just went the other way. In reality when she left power things were still not healthy and she had asset striped the country. | |||
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"I hope these pointless posts are removed from this thread in the morning when the mods read them. Ruining a bloody good impartial debate for once. Remove this one too while you're at it ruggers. "But yours is a good one | |||
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