FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Forign aid
Forign aid
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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With president Putin ambitions to bully the west and his neighbours would you cut the forign aid budget of £12.7 billion pounds to pay more for our defence.With the money that is mostly wasted we could have 4 nuclear subs 3 aircraft carriers and 30,000 extra troops.Ask yourself a question would Putin have invaded Crimea if they had a deterrent |
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Well as most global instability is caused by poverty cutting aid would be a brilliant move.
As for Ukraine
1) The Ukraine war has no military solution. Russia knows that, which is one reason why it hasn’t swatted away the Ukrainian armed forces already. It it did that, it would become an occupying power and would be bled white. Nor is it even clear that Putin wants to annexe eastern Ukraine, despite all the Sudetenland comparisons that have been flying around. It is not even clear whether the Russian-speaking population is universally in favour of union with Russia, even though they might be if the war goes on and the Nazis of the Azov Battalion continue to run amok.
2) This is a conflict that requires conflict resolution, cooperation and compromises. It must be resolved politically and that demands action by ALL the protagonists; Russia, the separatists, the Ukraine government, the EU, the US, NATO and the separatists, because all of them in different ways are responsible for the unfolding disaster.
3) That solution may involve separation, unless the Ukraine government can give the Russian-speaking inhabitants of east Ukraine a very good reason to remain part of their country – which doesn’t mean force. If that happens then the ‘international community’ will have to accept, just as they accepted the secession of Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia, and ultimately Kosovo in the former Yugoslavia – or is secession only to be supported when it’s politically convenient?
4) No Russian leader will accept another NATO-dominated state on its borders. It doesn’t matter whether they are Putin or somebody else. A country that has been as mauled as Russia has been in two world wars is not going to allow this to happen without doing everything it can to stop it.
5) It’s no good NATO simply insisting, as its Deputy General Secretary Alexander Vershbow did in Oslo, that it doesn’t represent a security threat to Russia. When the US allows Russia to carry out military maneuvers in Canada and perhaps install nuclear weapons there, then maybe those reassurances might have some credibility. Until then, not. And as for Vershbow’s accusation that Russia has ‘torn up the international rule book’, well NATO simply has no platform to deliver homilies on that score.
6) Escalation is likely to induce Putin to raise the stakes too. It is likely to build up a really dangerous and uncontrollable dynamic that may well lead not just to a new Cold War, but a hot war with Russia. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"With president Putin ambitions to bully the west and his neighbours would you cut the forign aid budget of £12.7 billion pounds to pay more for our defence.With the money that is mostly wasted we could have 4 nuclear subs 3 aircraft carriers and 30,000 extra troops.Ask yourself a question would Putin have invaded Crimea if they had a deterrent"
And if this government acted on multi-million pound tax avoidence and evasion maybe the choice wouldn't need to be one or the other but could be both? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Thats true a few dictators will need new aircrafts soon so carry on with the aid"
Let's cut to the chase, what this really boils down to is you not agreeing with foreign aid doesn't it? You aren't really interested in the Ukraine or defence budgets are you? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why would i put post up"
Good question, why?
Anyway, if you're going to cheapskate the foreign aid budget, why not consider why we haven't sent an existing nuclear submarine to help resolve this conflict? The simple answer is that it couldn't do anything useful or helpful... Who would it fire at? Why? What would happen next?
If you want to buy and equip a new aircraft carrier you'll need a long term plan to manage the crisis while we wait for it to arrive. It'll take about 7-10 years. You could rush things through and use the ones due to get planes in 2020 I suppose, so that's only 5 years we need to manage the crisis until they arrive.
Ah 30000 troops on the ground... Err ok that will lead to up to about 10000 front line troops. I think the generals will be back tracking at enormous speed at the thought of deploying that few soldiers against Russian forces in a conflict where there'd be no clear definition of victory, no viable post war political solution and a dreadful stream of coffins flying into the uk.
Sabre rattling at the expense of foreign aid or a serious political solution just won't work. I doubt the military wants us to make threats we can't carry through either.
And you'd need far far more money than the foreign aid budget.
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By *ancadamMan
over a year ago
Stockport |
"With president Putin ambitions to bully the west and his neighbours would you cut the forign aid budget of £12.7 billion pounds to pay more for our defence.With the money that is mostly wasted we could have 4 nuclear subs 3 aircraft carriers and 30,000 extra troops.Ask yourself a question would Putin have invaded Crimea if they had a deterrent
And if this government acted on multi-million pound tax avoidence and evasion maybe the choice wouldn't need to be one or the other but could be both?"
absolutely spot on!! |
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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago
Bristol |
"Well as most global instability is caused by poverty cutting aid would be a brilliant move.
As for Ukraine
1) The Ukraine war has no military solution. Russia knows that, which is one reason why it hasn’t swatted away the Ukrainian armed forces already. It it did that, it would become an occupying power and would be bled white. Nor is it even clear that Putin wants to annexe eastern Ukraine, despite all the Sudetenland comparisons that have been flying around. It is not even clear whether the Russian-speaking population is universally in favour of union with Russia, even though they might be if the war goes on and the Nazis of the Azov Battalion continue to run amok.
2) This is a conflict that requires conflict resolution, cooperation and compromises. It must be resolved politically and that demands action by ALL the protagonists; Russia, the separatists, the Ukraine government, the EU, the US, NATO and the separatists, because all of them in different ways are responsible for the unfolding disaster.
3) That solution may involve separation, unless the Ukraine government can give the Russian-speaking inhabitants of east Ukraine a very good reason to remain part of their country – which doesn’t mean force. If that happens then the ‘international community’ will have to accept, just as they accepted the secession of Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia, and ultimately Kosovo in the former Yugoslavia – or is secession only to be supported when it’s politically convenient?
4) No Russian leader will accept another NATO-dominated state on its borders. It doesn’t matter whether they are Putin or somebody else. A country that has been as mauled as Russia has been in two world wars is not going to allow this to happen without doing everything it can to stop it.
5) It’s no good NATO simply insisting, as its Deputy General Secretary Alexander Vershbow did in Oslo, that it doesn’t represent a security threat to Russia. When the US allows Russia to carry out military maneuvers in Canada and perhaps install nuclear weapons there, then maybe those reassurances might have some credibility. Until then, not. And as for Vershbow’s accusation that Russia has ‘torn up the international rule book’, well NATO simply has no platform to deliver homilies on that score.
6) Escalation is likely to induce Putin to raise the stakes too. It is likely to build up a really dangerous and uncontrollable dynamic that may well lead not just to a new Cold War, but a hot war with Russia."
Very good post! A little more thoughtful than what the OP wanted though.  |
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"lets all face facts as a country we too soft forget aid going abroad lets shut up shop and look after our own.people die in the world shit happens oh well never mind"
We've not too soft, just fortunate enough to be placed in a geographical position on earth where we're not affected by the problems that often cause the need for Foreign Aid occur. |
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"Why would i put post up"
some bizarre lets try and get people frightened that due to the foreign aid budget we could be next and it will all be down to us helping those bloody foreigners..
close..?
yes the foreign aid budget needs reviewing but thats not behind the cuts in defence is it, surely you know that yes..?
btw Ukraine gave up the nukes on its soil as part of independence not because some of our foreign aid is used to build a school of help with irrigation.. |
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"forign aid: don't get me bloody started, this should have stopped years ago until the UK gets its own affairs in order
"
Always good to know that Christian values (if you are religious) or just morality and fairness (if you are not religious) only applies as far as the white cliffs of Dover. |
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By *quirrelMan
over a year ago
East Manchester |
When both my parents were made redundant in the 80s, they had to cut back on everything.
Food, trips out, use of the car and other stuff which cost money was either reduced or eliminated altogether, because we had to make sure everyone in the family had a roof over their head and food in their bellies.
Giving away much needed money which was needed to pay our bills and keep us safe was seen as an extravagance they couldn't afford.
So my answer to your question is, yes stop foreign aid until we as a country are on our feet and change the system so that the people who brought about the recession cannot make it happen to us again. |
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The only reason Putin is backing and helping the separatists in Eastern Ukraine is because Ukraine does not have nuclear weapons.
If rather than signing the Budapest Memorandum and giving up its nuclear weapons in return for a guarantee of territorial integrity signed by us, the French, USA, Russia and China they had kept their weapons do you think their country would be getting carved up by Putin? And do you think we would be sitting back doing F ALL about it?
Like it or not the MAD doctrine that was developed along with nuclear weapons has to a great degree kept us safe from tyrants for 70 years. Why would anyone be so stupid as to want to trow away our only real protection? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"forign aid: don't get me bloody started, this should have stopped years ago until the UK gets its own affairs in order
Always good to know that Christian values (if you are religious) or just morality and fairness (if you are not religious) only applies as far as the white cliffs of Dover."
even that is not good enough, far to many coming over to UK using welfare
and regardless what off it, I am totally against foreign aid until the UK is back on its own feet with no dept, and as for giving foreign aid to countries that can run and support their own space programmes, that is simply taking the piss |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As for Foreign aid...
Maybe if we in Europe gave more we would have less of an illegal migration problem...
Just a thought... "
Maybe if we used the money spent on foreign aid to tighten our borders there would be no problem
just a thought..... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As for Foreign aid...
Maybe if we in Europe gave more we would have less of an illegal migration problem...
Just a thought...
Maybe if we used the money spent on foreign aid to tighten our borders there would be no problem
just a thought....."
Maybe if we put as much effort into investigating and punishing tax evasion/avoidance as we did benefit fraud there wouldn't be a debt.
Just another thought.... |
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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago
Titz Towers, North Notts |
"As for Foreign aid...
Maybe if we in Europe gave more we would have less of an illegal migration problem...
Just a thought...
Maybe if we used the money spent on foreign aid to tighten our borders there would be no problem
just a thought....."
I'm not sure I want to live in a country that has a huge fence around it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As for Foreign aid...
Maybe if we in Europe gave more we would have less of an illegal migration problem...
Just a thought...
Maybe if we used the money spent on foreign aid to tighten our borders there would be no problem
just a thought.....
I'm not sure I want to live in a country that has a huge fence around it. "
Oh I dunno. A white picket one would look lovely  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Right people need to ask themselves a couple of questions....
Do they drink tea/coffee?
Do they have rubber on their tyres?
Do they eat anything with chocolate in?
Do you wear any designer clothes?
There was another but forgotten it but if you answered yes to any of those questions get off your high horse now about foreign aid. The countries that produce all those often have to use arable farming land to grow these cash crops. Land that could be better used trying to feed the people of it's country. We lend them money and send them aid but have clauses saying that we must receive X amount of imports from them.
Next time you have breakfast, lunch, drive around town or go out for the night just remember you are part of the reason they need foreign aid!
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"forign aid: don't get me bloody started, this should have stopped years ago until the UK gets its own affairs in order
Always good to know that Christian values (if you are religious) or just morality and fairness (if you are not religious) only applies as far as the white cliffs of Dover.
even that is not good enough, far to many coming over to UK using welfare
and regardless what off it, I am totally against foreign aid until the UK is back on its own feet with no dept, and as for giving foreign aid to countries that can run and support their own space programmes, that is simply taking the piss"
I've got news for you; we haven't been debt free since the 17th century, so I wouldn't hold my breath on that score! |
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By *quirrelMan
over a year ago
East Manchester |
"Foreign aid represents 0.7% of GDP. "
figures are out of date by 3 years.
•Foreign Aid £7.8 billion or 0.7% of GDP 2011/12
•Job Seekers allowance £4.9bn or 0.7% of GDP 2013/14
If we are cracking down on "scroungers" getting benefits whilst unemployed, then we should also be cracking down on foreign aid as a large portion of what we give is siphoned off into corrupt officials bank accounts.
It is also 2.5 x the amount we spend on our roads, which is collected in direct taxation from the motorist. |
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Foreign aid was started in earnest by the UN.
Not the UN as we know it but the United Nations against Facism.
This was headed by Churchill,Stalin and Rosevelt.
The aim was to give countries money and aid to struggling countries to stop them taking the path to war or genocide.
Last time we didnt give aid or money a man called ADOLF HITLER decided to take it from the Jews and invade Europe.
Give a little now save a lot later.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Foreign aid represents 0.7% of GDP.
figures are out of date by 3 years.
•Foreign Aid £7.8 billion or 0.7% of GDP 2011/12
•Job Seekers allowance £4.9bn or 0.7% of GDP 2013/14
If we are cracking down on "scroungers" getting benefits whilst unemployed, then we should also be cracking down on foreign aid as a large portion of what we give is siphoned off into corrupt officials bank accounts.
It is also 2.5 x the amount we spend on our roads, which is collected in direct taxation from the motorist."
Your last paragraph is rubbish, Vehicle excise duty has never had any coralation to what is spent on the roads.
And the government creates the myth of scroungers ion much the same way as people vilify foreign aid as pointless. It gives us someone to blame. And while we blame the poor and vulnerable we don't look at those at the top of the pile as they fuck over all of us |
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Foreign Aid buys much stability in areas where instability would otherwise be the norm. It also secures the supply of resources from mineral rich areas. It may not sound like the purest of motives but that is life
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"Foreign Aid buys much stability in areas where instability would otherwise be the norm. It also secures the supply of resources from mineral rich areas. It may not sound like the purest of motives but that is life
"
Precisely, anyone that thinks that Foreign Aid is entirely altruistic, is very naive. It often 'buys' as much as it 'aids'. |
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Personally i would like to see the foreign aid budget cut, and as this clip which i will give the link for filmed in December in the House of Commons highlights 66% of the British population would like to see the foreign aid budget cut and only 7% would like to see it increased. These figures were from a Yougov poll taken in december 2014. As Mark Reckless UKIP MP highlights this in the commons in the clip, he is heckled from all sides by Lib/Lab/Con MP's which just goes to show how out of touch the LIb/Lab/Con "cosy cartel" (as Reckless calls them) are with the 66% majority of the British public on this issue of foreign aid.
Now i'm all for supporting foreign aid where it is really needed such as the recent Ebola outbreak in Africa, but it has to be said that a large chunk of British taxpayers money is going into lining the pockets of corrupt government officials and dictators in 3rd world countries, and not being filtered down to the people at the bottom who need it. Also we should not be giving aid to countries like India when they have their own Space programme and we cannot afford one of our own.
The link for Mark Reckless speech in the house of commons is here....
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkN-YzVwAYQ |
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"No, it's still the right thing to do to try to help those who are starving, dying or in greater need than ourselves. "
Poor People are struggling to pay for food for themselves here in the UK though Tina, which is why there has been a big increase of the use of food banks here. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Foreign Aid buys much stability in areas where instability would otherwise be the norm. It also secures the supply of resources from mineral rich areas. It may not sound like the purest of motives but that is life
"
Point well made. Most of the Aid goes to people whose idea of luxury is clean drinking water. To them, the poor in this country have riches beyond their imagination. Cutting foreign aid on the grounds that some of it gets siphoned off by corrupt officials would most certainly result in the unnecessary deaths of tens of thousands of people.
Cutting foreign aid is a view held by extremely selfish people who through the fortune of birth found themselves in this country and not in a place where daily survival is a struggle. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No, it's still the right thing to do to try to help those who are starving, dying or in greater need than ourselves.
Poor People are struggling to pay for food for themselves here in the UK though Tina, which is why there has been a big increase of the use of food banks here. "
Proving that your point in your previous about tax payers money being taken by the elite and not reaching those who need it is just as true in the UK as it is in the developing world.
Cutting foreign aid won't change that. Nor will it solve poverty in this country |
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"Foreign Aid buys much stability in areas where instability would otherwise be the norm. It also secures the supply of resources from mineral rich areas. It may not sound like the purest of motives but that is life
Point well made. Most of the Aid goes to people whose idea of luxury is clean drinking water. To them, the poor in this country have riches beyond their imagination. Cutting foreign aid on the grounds that some of it gets siphoned off by corrupt officials would most certainly result in the unnecessary deaths of tens of thousands of people.
Cutting foreign aid is a view held by extremely selfish people who through the fortune of birth found themselves in this country and not in a place where daily survival is a struggle."
And as the yougov poll showed a 66% majority of the british public would like to see the foreign aid budget cut. Do we live in a democracy or not? |
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"With president Putin ambitions to bully the west and his neighbours would you cut the forign aid budget of £12.7 billion pounds to pay more for our defence.With the money that is mostly wasted we could have 4 nuclear subs 3 aircraft carriers and 30,000 extra troops.Ask yourself a question would Putin have invaded Crimea if they had a deterrent
And if this government acted on multi-million pound tax avoidence and evasion maybe the choice wouldn't need to be one or the other but could be both?"
 |
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"Ask yourself a question would Putin have invaded Crimea if they had a deterrent"
Yes.
Because something like 98% of them asked him to? (And don't count it as an invasion, but providing protection)
(Though obviously those votes don't count because they all voted the wrong way)
Mr ddc |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Foreign Aid buys much stability in areas where instability would otherwise be the norm. It also secures the supply of resources from mineral rich areas. It may not sound like the purest of motives but that is life
Point well made. Most of the Aid goes to people whose idea of luxury is clean drinking water. To them, the poor in this country have riches beyond their imagination. Cutting foreign aid on the grounds that some of it gets siphoned off by corrupt officials would most certainly result in the unnecessary deaths of tens of thousands of people.
Cutting foreign aid is a view held by extremely selfish people who through the fortune of birth found themselves in this country and not in a place where daily survival is a struggle.
And as the yougov poll showed a 66% majority of the british public would like to see the foreign aid budget cut. Do we live in a democracy or not? "
A representative democracy. Not the same thing. |
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"With president Putin ambitions to bully the west and his neighbours would you cut the forign aid budget of £12.7 billion pounds to pay more for our defence.With the money that is mostly wasted we could have 4 nuclear subs 3 aircraft carriers and 30,000 extra troops.Ask yourself a question would Putin have invaded Crimea if they had a deterrent"
I can only answer the first question.
Yes I would cut the foreign aid budget, by the looks of it, wen asked 66% of the population agree.
Why has the OP been asked about why he posted this thread/topic? |
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"With president Putin ambitions to bully the west and his neighbours would you cut the forign aid budget of £12.7 billion pounds to pay more for our defence.With the money that is mostly wasted we could have 4 nuclear subs 3 aircraft carriers and 30,000 extra troops.Ask yourself a question would Putin have invaded Crimea if they had a deterrent
I can only answer the first question.
Yes I would cut the foreign aid budget, by the looks of it, wen asked 66% of the population agree.
Why has the OP been asked about why he posted this thread/topic?"
I did wonder that myself, surely he is free to post any subject/topic he likes as long as its within the terms of use. |
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"Foreign Aid buys much stability in areas where instability would otherwise be the norm. It also secures the supply of resources from mineral rich areas. It may not sound like the purest of motives but that is life
Point well made. Most of the Aid goes to people whose idea of luxury is clean drinking water. To them, the poor in this country have riches beyond their imagination. Cutting foreign aid on the grounds that some of it gets siphoned off by corrupt officials would most certainly result in the unnecessary deaths of tens of thousands of people.
Cutting foreign aid is a view held by extremely selfish people who through the fortune of birth found themselves in this country and not in a place where daily survival is a struggle."
this.. |
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"Personally i would like to see the foreign aid budget cut, and as this clip which i will give the link for filmed in December in the House of Commons highlights 66% of the British population would like to see the foreign aid budget cut and only 7% would like to see it increased. These figures were from a Yougov poll taken in december 2014. As Mark Reckless UKIP MP highlights this in the commons in the clip, he is heckled from all sides by Lib/Lab/Con MP's which just goes to show how out of touch the LIb/Lab/Con "cosy cartel" (as Reckless calls them) are with the 66% majority of the British public on this issue of foreign aid.
Now i'm all for supporting foreign aid where it is really needed such as the recent Ebola outbreak in Africa, but it has to be said that a large chunk of British taxpayers money is going into lining the pockets of corrupt government officials and dictators in 3rd world countries, and not being filtered down to the people at the bottom who need it. Also we should not be giving aid to countries like India when they have their own Space programme and we cannot afford one of our own.
The link for Mark Reckless speech in the house of commons is here....
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkN-YzVwAYQ"
you cant say 66% of the population are against this or for that based on a poll of how many..?
you can say that 66% of people answered aye or nay to question x based on this amount (insert number polled) etc etc..
maybe he was shouted down by MP's of all parties who are not in agreement with his blinkered views.. |
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"Foreign Aid buys much stability in areas where instability would otherwise be the norm. It also secures the supply of resources from mineral rich areas. It may not sound like the purest of motives but that is life
Point well made. Most of the Aid goes to people whose idea of luxury is clean drinking water. To them, the poor in this country have riches beyond their imagination. Cutting foreign aid on the grounds that some of it gets siphoned off by corrupt officials would most certainly result in the unnecessary deaths of tens of thousands of people.
Cutting foreign aid is a view held by extremely selfish people who through the fortune of birth found themselves in this country and not in a place where daily survival is a struggle.
And as the yougov poll showed a 66% majority of the british public would like to see the foreign aid budget cut. Do we live in a democracy or not? "
yes ironically you refer to democracy in order to give credibility to your play on words..
a democratic mandate and a straw poll of a small percentage of the population are not the same..?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As for Foreign aid...
Maybe if we in Europe gave more we would have less of an illegal migration problem...
Just a thought...
Maybe if we used the money spent on foreign aid to tighten our borders there would be no problem
just a thought....."
|
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"Foreign Aid buys much stability in areas where instability would otherwise be the norm. It also secures the supply of resources from mineral rich areas. It may not sound like the purest of motives but that is life
Point well made. Most of the Aid goes to people whose idea of luxury is clean drinking water. To them, the poor in this country have riches beyond their imagination. Cutting foreign aid on the grounds that some of it gets siphoned off by corrupt officials would most certainly result in the unnecessary deaths of tens of thousands of people.
Cutting foreign aid is a view held by extremely selfish people who through the fortune of birth found themselves in this country and not in a place where daily survival is a struggle.
And as the yougov poll showed a 66% majority of the british public would like to see the foreign aid budget cut. Do we live in a democracy or not?
yes ironically you refer to democracy in order to give credibility to your play on words..
a democratic mandate and a straw poll of a small percentage of the population are not the same..?
"
Why bother having any opinion polls of any kind at all then? As by your reckoning they all must be a waste of time and not representative of anything?
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"Foreign Aid buys much stability in areas where instability would otherwise be the norm. It also secures the supply of resources from mineral rich areas. It may not sound like the purest of motives but that is life
Point well made. Most of the Aid goes to people whose idea of luxury is clean drinking water. To them, the poor in this country have riches beyond their imagination. Cutting foreign aid on the grounds that some of it gets siphoned off by corrupt officials would most certainly result in the unnecessary deaths of tens of thousands of people.
Cutting foreign aid is a view held by extremely selfish people who through the fortune of birth found themselves in this country and not in a place where daily survival is a struggle.
And as the yougov poll showed a 66% majority of the british public would like to see the foreign aid budget cut. Do we live in a democracy or not?
yes ironically you refer to democracy in order to give credibility to your play on words..
a democratic mandate and a straw poll of a small percentage of the population are not the same..?
Why bother having any opinion polls of any kind at all then? As by your reckoning they all must be a waste of time and not representative of anything?
"
did not say that as is clearly shown in my responses so perhaps leave it with the paltry attempt to put words where they are not eh..
have another look and you'll see what i said.. |
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"Why bother having any opinion polls of any kind at all then? As by your reckoning they all must be a waste of time and not representative of anything?
"
Good question!
It has been proven that the wording of an opinion pole has a significant effect on the result of the pole...
So I guess the best answer would be to get the answer the pole commissioners want and so give legitimacy to whatever outrageous idea they are pushing...
Not the answer you wanted...
Why not frame a question to get the answer you want and publish it to prove your point correct. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The point really should be, that the vast majority of people from the west think Putin is a scumbag!.
Unfortunately for them he's not a dictator but an extremely popular leader, loved by the majority of his population.
The same can't be said for David Cameron.
The Ukraine crisis for the most part is a problem made by the west and one that I really struggle understand the point of,I really don't see the big idea of poking the bear with a stick to see how mad he gets as a wise move..
Obviously the US is loving the antagonism but I really think Europe should watch itself as it just might get the reaction it didn't expect. |
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"Why bother having any opinion polls of any kind at all then? As by your reckoning they all must be a waste of time and not representative of anything?
Good question!
It has been proven that the wording of an opinion pole has a significant effect on the result of the pole...
So I guess the best answer would be to get the answer the pole commissioners want and so give legitimacy to whatever outrageous idea they are pushing...
Not the answer you wanted...
Why not frame a question to get the answer you want and publish it to prove your point correct."
It's the easiest thing in the world to frame the questions in a poll to get the answers you want.
However, I doubt if this poll had to make it past an ethics committee, or state how the population sample was selected! |
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"Why bother having any opinion polls of any kind at all then? As by your reckoning they all must be a waste of time and not representative of anything?
Good question!
It has been proven that the wording of an opinion pole has a significant effect on the result of the pole...
So I guess the best answer would be to get the answer the pole commissioners want and so give legitimacy to whatever outrageous idea they are pushing...
Not the answer you wanted...
Why not frame a question to get the answer you want and publish it to prove your point correct.
It's the easiest thing in the world to frame the questions in a poll to get the answers you want.
However, I doubt if this poll had to make it past an ethics committee, or state how the population sample was selected! "
It was a yougov poll, its generally accepted among political commentators and journalists that they are good, unbiased, and fair opinion polls that come from yougov. |
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"The point really should be, that the vast majority of people from the west think Putin is a scumbag!.
Unfortunately for them he's not a dictator but an extremely popular leader, loved by the majority of his population.
The same can't be said for David Cameron.
The Ukraine crisis for the most part is a problem made by the west and one that I really struggle understand the point of,I really don't see the big idea of poking the bear with a stick to see how mad he gets as a wise move..
Obviously the US is loving the antagonism but I really think Europe should watch itself as it just might get the reaction it didn't expect."
I would agree with you, and i think the EU is partly to blame for all of this, encouraging Ukraine to break free from Russia, out the pro russian leader and put a pro EU leader in his place. As Farage said, don't poke the russian bear. |
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As has been stated, we gain more from foreign aid than we spend. It's an easy button pusher to highlight why we send foreign aid to countries who have a space programme, or a large standing army, but the unpleasant fact is that much of our aid is bribery. It's how those countries operate and without bribes, we would not get favourable trading terms or intelligence co-operation. Look at where the money goes. We actually give very little to countries that don't have something we want from them. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"As has been stated, we gain more from foreign aid than we spend. It's an easy button pusher to highlight why we send foreign aid to countries who have a space programme, or a large standing army, but the unpleasant fact is that much of our aid is bribery. It's how those countries operate and without bribes, we would not get favourable trading terms or intelligence co-operation. Look at where the money goes. We actually give very little to countries that don't have something we want from them."
Or to countries we'd like to buy our stuff. That's why there are so many Land Rovers and JCBs in third world countries. |
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"
Or to countries we'd like to buy our stuff. That's why there are so many Land Rovers and JCBs in third world countries."
Indeed, that is the kind of thing I was alluding to when saying favourable trading terms.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Why bother having any opinion polls of any kind at all then? As by your reckoning they all must be a waste of time and not representative of anything?
Good question!
It has been proven that the wording of an opinion pole has a significant effect on the result of the pole...
So I guess the best answer would be to get the answer the pole commissioners want and so give legitimacy to whatever outrageous idea they are pushing...
Not the answer you wanted...
Why not frame a question to get the answer you want and publish it to prove your point correct.
It's the easiest thing in the world to frame the questions in a poll to get the answers you want.
However, I doubt if this poll had to make it past an ethics committee, or state how the population sample was selected!
It was a yougov poll, its generally accepted among political commentators and journalists that they are good, unbiased, and fair opinion polls that come from yougov. "
It was, but it actually said 61% based on a poll of 618 people in December (66% was the figure in March).
Meanwhile, in September, according to fair and unbiased research by yougov:
63% supported sending foods, medicine and other humanitarian supplies overland to Nigeria
69% supported sending them to Syria
67% supported sending them to Iraq.
Then
71% supported using the RAF to airdrop humanitarian supplies in Nigeria
78% supported humanitarian airdrops to Syria
79% supported airdrops in Iraq.
They were bigger polls too (2000+ people) so more reliable.
The answer you get really does depend on the question asked.
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"It was, but it actually said 61% based on a poll of 618 people in December (66% was the figure in March).
Meanwhile, in September, according to fair and unbiased research by yougov:
63% supported sending foods, medicine and other humanitarian supplies overland to Nigeria
69% supported sending them to Syria
67% supported sending them to Iraq.
Then
71% supported using the RAF to airdrop humanitarian supplies in Nigeria
78% supported humanitarian airdrops to Syria
79% supported airdrops in Iraq.
They were bigger polls too (2000+ people) so more reliable.
The answer you get really does depend on the question asked.
"
Thank you so much! You have demonstrated my point with consummate ease!
 |
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"Why bother having any opinion polls of any kind at all then? As by your reckoning they all must be a waste of time and not representative of anything?
Good question!
It has been proven that the wording of an opinion pole has a significant effect on the result of the pole...
So I guess the best answer would be to get the answer the pole commissioners want and so give legitimacy to whatever outrageous idea they are pushing...
Not the answer you wanted...
Why not frame a question to get the answer you want and publish it to prove your point correct.
It's the easiest thing in the world to frame the questions in a poll to get the answers you want.
However, I doubt if this poll had to make it past an ethics committee, or state how the population sample was selected!
It was a yougov poll, its generally accepted among political commentators and journalists that they are good, unbiased, and fair opinion polls that come from yougov.
It was, but it actually said 61% based on a poll of 618 people in December (66% was the figure in March).
Meanwhile, in September, according to fair and unbiased research by yougov:
63% supported sending foods, medicine and other humanitarian supplies overland to Nigeria
69% supported sending them to Syria
67% supported sending them to Iraq.
Then
71% supported using the RAF to airdrop humanitarian supplies in Nigeria
78% supported humanitarian airdrops to Syria
79% supported airdrops in Iraq.
They were bigger polls too (2000+ people) so more reliable.
The answer you get really does depend on the question asked.
"
Ha, ha, talk about being hoist by one's own petard! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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In an ideal world no country should go without especially when you consider how much food is wasted by countries like ourselves . We're privileged to be born in the U.K so it's right that we should help out countries not as well off then ourselves. The problem isnt the poor or needy of the world its those who could do something about it and dont. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"In an ideal world no country should go without especially when you consider how much food is wasted by countries like ourselves . We're privileged to be born in the U.K so it's right that we should help out countries not as well off then ourselves. The problem isnt the poor or needy of the world its those who could do something about it and dont."
Soory I disagree with you that we should help deprived countries, india who we give aid to has a space programme, Africa has oil, china has a big economy growth.
We should not give foreign aid to any country when it is used to prop up CORRUPT governments why should our defence nhs etc suffer for other countries? Why because the EU says we have to!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Soory I disagree with you that we should help deprived countries, india who we give aid to has a space programme, Africa has oil, china has a big economy growth.
We should not give foreign aid to any country when it is used to prop up CORRUPT governments why should our defence nhs etc suffer for other countries? Why because the EU says we have to!! "
India and Africa wouldn't be in the mess they're in if it hadn't been for the west going in and taking their natural resources in the first place. There used to to be a saying that when a Englishman sat down to breakfast 1/2 the world made it for them.
Coffee, Tea, Rubber, Sugar, Cacao and Tobacco, cash crops that poorer countries are forced to grow instead of crops that might feed it's own people to pay off loans countries like ourselves gave! That doesn't include the countries that have illegal cash crops like Opium and Coca. Although I agree with you that money shouldn't be given to feed corruption surely you'd agree somewhere like Nepal needs aid when 95% of all homes were destroyed??? |
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Bloody hell. Who bumped this thread?!
There's nothing wrong with foreign (not forign) aid. We are all one world and we need each other to thrive. The reason why it exists, which is a point I agreed with the last time on this thread, is that there will always be the few that have more than the rest of us through immense wealth and tax avoidance. Then they have the cheek to blame the minor benefits and aid to poor as the reason why we're struggling.
But the worst thing about all of this is we believe them...hence these threads. |
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"Bloody hell. Who bumped this thread?!
There's nothing wrong with foreign (not forign) aid. We are all one world and we need each other to thrive. The reason why it exists, which is a point I agreed with the last time on this thread, is that there will always be the few that have more than the rest of us through immense wealth and tax avoidance. Then they have the cheek to blame the minor benefits and aid to poor as the reason why we're struggling.
But the worst thing about all of this is we believe them...hence these threads."
We don't all believe them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"With president Putin ambitions to bully the west and his neighbours would you cut the forign aid budget of £12.7 billion pounds to pay more for our defence.With the money that is mostly wasted we could have 4 nuclear subs 3 aircraft carriers and 30,000 extra troops.Ask yourself a question would Putin have invaded Crimea if they had a deterrent"
It was the West that destabilized the Ukraine by helping to remove the previous democratically elected Government. Also, the West wants to Invade Syria to remove it's Government. It has survived only because of Putin. The West is also to blame for the debacle of the Invasion of Iraq.
The empirical evidence suggests that the West are the bullies and that everyone else has become frustrated with our Imperial foreign policy. Perhaps you have chosen to conceal this important evidence because it is inconvenient for the subversive propaganda that you are unscrupulously attempting to promote.
I would cut foreign aid because we are bankrupt and it's not our responsibility to provide assistance to other countries that would most likely not provide assistance to Britain if the roles were reversed. |
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"With president Putin ambitions to bully the west and his neighbours would you cut the forign aid budget of £12.7 billion pounds to pay more for our defence.With the money that is mostly wasted we could have 4 nuclear subs 3 aircraft carriers and 30,000 extra troops.Ask yourself a question would Putin have invaded Crimea if they had a deterrent"
The question is flawed.
The EU/NATO would never start a war with Russia. |
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"Bloody hell. Who bumped this thread?!
There's nothing wrong with foreign (not forign) aid. We are all one world and we need each other to thrive. The reason why it exists, which is a point I agreed with the last time on this thread, is that there will always be the few that have more than the rest of us through immense wealth and tax avoidance. Then they have the cheek to blame the minor benefits and aid to poor as the reason why we're struggling.
But the worst thing about all of this is we believe them...hence these threads.
We don't all believe them."
I know.
But there's enough that do for it to continue to be an issue. |
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"Bloody hell. Who bumped this thread?!
There's nothing wrong with foreign (not forign) aid. We are all one world and we need each other to thrive. The reason why it exists, which is a point I agreed with the last time on this thread, is that there will always be the few that have more than the rest of us through immense wealth and tax avoidance. Then they have the cheek to blame the minor benefits and aid to poor as the reason why we're struggling.
But the worst thing about all of this is we believe them...hence these threads.
We don't all believe them.
I know.
But there's enough that do for it to continue to be an issue."
Yep. We were discussing that today we came to the conclusion that many people find it easier and more palatable to believe it and even when it's pointed out will continue to believe because then it means that bad things are always somebody else's fault and responsibility. |
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"Bloody hell. Who bumped this thread?!
There's nothing wrong with foreign (not forign) aid. We are all one world and we need each other to thrive. The reason why it exists, which is a point I agreed with the last time on this thread, is that there will always be the few that have more than the rest of us through immense wealth and tax avoidance. Then they have the cheek to blame the minor benefits and aid to poor as the reason why we're struggling.
But the worst thing about all of this is we believe them...hence these threads.
We don't all believe them.
I know.
But there's enough that do for it to continue to be an issue.
Yep. We were discussing that today we came to the conclusion that many people find it easier and more palatable to believe it and even when it's pointed out will continue to believe because then it means that bad things are always somebody else's fault and responsibility."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If the corruption which is present at high level in the countries which recieve aid was addressed then aid could be cut to smaller amounts and would do just as much good as more would reach the people who actually need it.
Just as if the corruption present in this country was addressed then taxpayers money would go further and reach the people who need it the most. So we as a country are not that different to the ones some think we should not send aid to. |
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