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Tory government suppress information that HSBC has conspired with rich to evade tax for 5 years!
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"Would any of those who wanted proof of the Tories stealing from poor to give to rich care to comment? "Between 2005 & 2007? | |||
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"If your poor and defraud the government you get prosecuted and your benefits stopped, if your rich and powerful you get a title, a ministerial job and £134,565 + expenses annual salary! " Tell you what though, I wouldn't do that job for that salary. | |||
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"Would any of those who wanted proof of the Tories stealing from poor to give to rich care to comment?
Between 2005 & 2007?"That is the big problem we have. It went on under the previous government too. Going to watch the programme tonight before I feel able to comment in any more depth....but sounds like HSBC were totally complicit in this fraud.....not holding my breath but maybe this could be the trigger for some of these bankers getting jailed? Problem is they are too close to politicians in all three of the main parties. | |||
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"Would any of those who wanted proof of the Tories stealing from poor to give to rich care to comment? "Aren't you missing the point that the deregulation of banks by the previous government when all this deliberate tax evasion and avoidance came about? Maybe someone other than the tories were to blame for that, what do you reckon?  | |||
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"Would any of those who wanted proof of the Tories stealing from poor to give to rich care to comment?
Aren't you missing the point that the deregulation of banks by the previous government when all this deliberate tax evasion and avoidance came about? Maybe someone other than the tories were to blame for that, what do you reckon? "Fair point, well made! And politicians on all sides wonder why the public/voters are so disillusioned...... | |||
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"Would any of those who wanted proof of the Tories stealing from poor to give to rich care to comment?
Aren't you missing the point that the deregulation of banks by the previous government when all this deliberate tax evasion and avoidance came about? Maybe someone other than the tories were to blame for that, what do you reckon? "Actually it was the Tories under Thatcher who deregulated the financial markets including the banks. In fact in 1996 one of the Tory claims was that labour would re-regulate the financial sector and to stop that from happening we needed another Tory government. Labour made a promise that they would not interfere with the financial markets or regulate them. Then the banks sold sub-prime, trousered the profits and nearly bankrupted the world! And according to the Tories that was all Labours fault! Bet that there will be some Tory on the box soon blaming Labour for them giving a fraudster a peerage and government job! | |||
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"Tha Bastards, I've been with them for 15 years and not once have they offered to help me avoid tax....." Guess your not rich enough... Just one of the prols that they are able to rip off with impunity. But don't worry your hard earned is paying their fat bonuses. Guess that is one of the advantages of having an ex CEO in government... | |||
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"Tha Bastards, I've been with them for 15 years and not once have they offered to help me avoid tax..... Guess your not rich enough... Just one of the prols that they are able to rip off with impunity. But don't worry your hard earned is paying their fat bonuses. Guess that is one of the advantages of having an ex CEO in government... "Phew,thanks for reassuring me, I feel better now | |||
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"Tha Bastards, I've been with them for 15 years and not once have they offered to help me avoid tax....." LMAO  If you're one of the 80 odd percent on PAYE, its pay up or stripey suntan time, dude!! | |||
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"Tha Bastards, I've been with them for 15 years and not once have they offered to help me avoid tax..... LMAO If you're one of the 80 odd percent on PAYE, its pay up or stripey suntan time, dude!! "PAYE and also some self employed work. And yes I duly paid up, through the nose | |||
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"Tha Bastards, I've been with them for 15 years and not once have they offered to help me avoid tax..... Guess your not rich enough... Just one of the prols that they are able to rip off with impunity. But don't worry your hard earned is paying their fat bonuses. Guess that is one of the advantages of having an ex CEO in government...
Phew,thanks for reassuring me, I feel better now"You're more than welcome, anything else i can do to help?  | |||
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"Very little changes...Them and us...we are fed shite to help us remain in a rut..(the poor and disadvantaged)..As i become older my experiences &observations have made me so very cynical... Thank god for cock! Ax" That's the beauty of the internet, bad news and cock, its disturbing  | |||
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"Tax evasion is very different to tax avoidance. Surely there has ti be prosecutions of bankers and those involved? " Awwwww that's really cute! Imagine someone be living it really works like that! Bless! | |||
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"Very little changes...Them and us...we are fed shite to help us remain in a rut..(the poor and disadvantaged)..As i become older my experiences &observations have made me so very cynical... Thank god for cock! Ax" .lol .....except for Westminster cocks, I hope!  | |||
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"Welcome to the 99 %, we all n*ggers now lol. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBVpfuaPzD8" how true | |||
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"Would any of those who wanted proof of the Tories stealing from poor to give to rich care to comment?
Between 2005 & 2007?"Shhh. Don't let facts get in the way of a bit of Tory bashing LOL | |||
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"Once again the "City" is caught with fingers in the till... when will this end and a banker or 3 be jailed for all this fraud...PPI, Libor, etc etc and now Tax avoidance. Jail the bar stewards. The City is corrupt and the political classes are working with them. Come the revolution peoples they will be the first to go. We are slowly edging that way unless a something changes. Frigntening." You say 'slowly' but it's far, far to slow, - remember why we celebrate the 5/11? It's because he tried, not because he failed - & sweet nothing has happened since!! But hay, let's still all 'hail the city'!! | |||
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"I love the way that this revelation has been leapt upon to criticise the Conservatives. The fact that the revelation applies to activity at HSBC that took place between 2005 and 2007 - while Labour were in Office - seems to be completely irrelevant. From what I understand, crimes have been committed within a private sector organisation. This has absolutely nothing to do with politics" Of course not, but these days everyone from King Herod to Stalin just has to be a nasty Tory. | |||
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"Here's a novel idea. Let's close all the banks, put the "greedy bankers" on the dole, turn Canary Wharf into an immigrant resettlement centre (rent free of course) and tell Frankfurt, Singapore, and New York that they can have all the business. Oops, sorry I forgot. The taxes that the financial sector DO pay keeps the rest of the country from going bankrupt. Be very careful what you wish for." Are you defending these crooked bastards? | |||
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"Would any of those who wanted proof of the Tories stealing from poor to give to rich care to comment?" Whatever are you implying? It's the IMMGRANTS that are the downfall of Great Britain! Everybody knows that... | |||
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"Here's a novel idea. Let's close all the banks, put the "greedy bankers" on the dole, turn Canary Wharf into an immigrant resettlement centre (rent free of course) and tell Frankfurt, Singapore, and New York that they can have all the business. Oops, sorry I forgot. The taxes that the financial sector DO pay keeps the rest of the country from going bankrupt. Be very careful what you wish for. Are you defending these crooked bastards?" Yes and no. I'm fully aware of the abuses and down right criminality in some areas of the financial sector and they should be dealt with accordingly. However the full on witch hunt against anyone or anything to do with banking is a very dangerous course that could end up in disaster. I find threads like this as a good source of amusement though. I see and hear many people who are very quick to demand the head of any "fat cat" banker on a spike, but in the next breath are arguing that the chairman of their favourite football team should chuck 250 grand a week at "Carlos Kickaball" so he can buy next years overpriced replica shirt with a picture of a silver pot on it. Sometimes you really couldn't make it up. | |||
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"Here's a novel idea. Let's close all the banks, put the "greedy bankers" on the dole, turn Canary Wharf into an immigrant resettlement centre (rent free of course) and tell Frankfurt, Singapore, and New York that they can have all the business. Oops, sorry I forgot. The taxes that the financial sector DO pay keeps the rest of the country from going bankrupt. Be very careful what you wish for. Are you defending these crooked bastards?" while living an Germany, a totally regulated country where if the bankers did what they are doing here would be in one of the prison barges parked on the Rhine! | |||
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"I'm fully aware of the abuses and down right criminality in some areas of the financial sector and they should be dealt with accordingly. However the full on witch hunt against anyone or anything to do with banking is a very dangerous course that could end up in disaster. I find threads like this as a good source of amusement though. I see and hear many people who are very quick to demand the head of any "fat cat" banker on a spike, but in the next breath are arguing that the chairman of their favourite football team should chuck 250 grand a week at "Carlos Kickaball" so he can buy next years overpriced replica shirt with a picture of a silver pot on it. Sometimes you really couldn't make it up. " What shite! Carlos Kickball, is the business you prat! If he fails to preform he looses his bonus and job and the business fails. Bankers are still collecting millions in bonuses for loosing billions! Can you spot the flaw in your pro Tory pro bank stance? | |||
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"Would any of those who wanted proof of the Tories stealing from poor to give to rich care to comment?
Between 2005 & 2007?
Shhh. Don't let facts get in the way of a bit of Tory bashing LOL "The fact that the incriminating files where given to HMRC in 2010 but HSBC ceo was still given a peerage and made a trade minister?, or the fact that criminal prosecutions have taken place in the US, France and Belgium but not here? http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/feb/08/hsbc-files-catalogue-malpractice-bankers-tax | |||
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"I love the way that this revelation has been leapt upon to criticise the Conservatives. The fact that the revelation applies to activity at HSBC that took place between 2005 and 2007 - while Labour were in Office - seems to be completely irrelevant. From what I understand, crimes have been committed within a private sector organisation. This has absolutely nothing to do with politics" will you shush..... it has nothing to do with the OP's narrative.....
after all.... why let facts get in the way of a chance to bash | |||
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"Would any of those who wanted proof of the Tories stealing from poor to give to rich care to comment?
Between 2005 & 2007?
Shhh. Don't let facts get in the way of a bit of Tory bashing LOL
The fact that the incriminating files where given to HMRC in 2010 but HSBC ceo was still given a peerage and made a trade minister?, or the fact that criminal prosecutions have taken place in the US, France and Belgium but not here?
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/feb/08/hsbc-files-catalogue-malpractice-bankers-tax"this is the most pernicious part of the whole story, the fact that the present government rewarded this guy in such a fashion after they were made aware of what happened and then sought to try to cover-up the whole thing. note to the extreme right, here's the proof you wanted of the present government helping their wealthy friends. | |||
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"Here's a novel idea. Let's close all the banks, put the "greedy bankers" on the dole, turn Canary Wharf into an immigrant resettlement centre (rent free of course) and tell Frankfurt, Singapore, and New York that they can have all the business. Oops, sorry I forgot. The taxes that the financial sector DO pay keeps the rest of the country from going bankrupt. Be very careful what you wish for. Are you defending these crooked bastards? while living an Germany, a totally regulated country where if the bankers did what they are doing here would be in one of the prison barges parked on the Rhine!" Exactly!! & Angela (baby) Merkel advised of the tighter regulations of banks but C Cameron rebuffed that, - knowing exactly what has been going on!! ......... & how much more will or won't be revealed, I wonder????????? | |||
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"Once again the "City" is caught with fingers in the till... when will this end and a banker or 3 be jailed for all this fraud...PPI, Libor, etc etc and now Tax avoidance. Jail the bar stewards. The City is corrupt and the political classes are working with them. Come the revolution peoples they will be the first to go. We are slowly edging that way unless a something changes. Frigntening." This was the Swiss arm of HSBC. They were acting on behalf of clients from all over the world. By default some would have been British citizens. If this was happening on our High Streets with regular UK tax payers then it is a noteworthy story. I just cant see how a Swiss bank offering tax saving advice is really a big story. That is the whole point of having a Swiss bank account isn't it? | |||
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"Anyone who thinks that there is any substantiative difference between the Labour and Conservative parties is deluding themselves. All the main parties (and UKIP too) are simply seeking to protect the vested interests of the rich. Supporting them blindly like opposing football teams is just buying into their big lie."  | |||
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"Once again the "City" is caught with fingers in the till... when will this end and a banker or 3 be jailed for all this fraud...PPI, Libor, etc etc and now Tax avoidance. Jail the bar stewards. The City is corrupt and the political classes are working with them. Come the revolution peoples they will be the first to go. We are slowly edging that way unless a something changes. Frigntening. You say 'slowly' but it's far, far to slow, - remember why we celebrate the 5/11? It's because he tried, not because he failed - & sweet nothing has happened since!! But hay, let's still all 'hail the city'!! "I thought we celebrated his capture and subsequent execution, hence the burning of his effigy. | |||
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"I love the way that this revelation has been leapt upon to criticise the Conservatives. The fact that the revelation applies to activity at HSBC that took place between 2005 and 2007 - while Labour were in Office - seems to be completely irrelevant. From what I understand, crimes have been committed within a private sector organisation. This has absolutely nothing to do with politics" It has everything to do with politics when the boss of HSBC at the time is then made a government minister and the HMRC boss then gets a job with the bank that wasn't investigated. It stinks of vested, undeclared conflicts of interest. The banking system still corrupts politics and it appears to be business as usual for them. The list goes on and on. | |||
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"Once again the "City" is caught with fingers in the till... when will this end and a banker or 3 be jailed for all this fraud...PPI, Libor, etc etc and now Tax avoidance. Jail the bar stewards. The City is corrupt and the political classes are working with them. Come the revolution peoples they will be the first to go. We are slowly edging that way unless a something changes. Frigntening. You say 'slowly' but it's far, far to slow, - remember why we celebrate the 5/11? It's because he tried, not because he failed - & sweet nothing has happened since!! But hay, let's still all 'hail the city'!!
I thought we celebrated his capture and subsequent execution, hence the burning of his effigy. "He was the only bloke to enter Parliament with honest intention . | |||
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"Once again the "City" is caught with fingers in the till... when will this end and a banker or 3 be jailed for all this fraud...PPI, Libor, etc etc and now Tax avoidance. Jail the bar stewards. The City is corrupt and the political classes are working with them. Come the revolution peoples they will be the first to go. We are slowly edging that way unless a something changes. Frigntening. You say 'slowly' but it's far, far to slow, - remember why we celebrate the 5/11? It's because he tried, not because he failed - & sweet nothing has happened since!! But hay, let's still all 'hail the city'!!
I thought we celebrated his capture and subsequent execution, hence the burning of his effigy.
He was the only bloke to enter Parliament with honest intention ."Murder the king and replace him with a catholic king ? Next time there's a religion bashing thread I expect you to be sticking up for the Catholics that would like to be running this country. We celebrate his failure not his intention. | |||
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"SKY news says the source for the accounts and advice was leaked by a whistleblower from the bank. Some of the advice was setting up false companies and taking large amounts of physical cash out of the country. All sounds like fraud. David Cameron made Green trade minister when he was doubling deposits of wealthy clients in Swiss accounts. " Lord Green a man of the cloth , surely he can't be engaged in wrongful doing / | |||
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" If this was happening on our High Streets with regular UK tax payers then it is a noteworthy story. I just cant see how a Swiss bank offering tax saving advice is really a big story. That is the whole point of having a Swiss bank account isn't it?" vast difference between 'saving' and deliberate evasion.. one is unlawful for starters.. | |||
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" If this was happening on our High Streets with regular UK tax payers then it is a noteworthy story. I just cant see how a Swiss bank offering tax saving advice is really a big story. That is the whole point of having a Swiss bank account isn't it? vast difference between 'saving' and deliberate evasion.. one is unlawful for starters.. " That's the point! It is illegal, it is acknowledged to be illegal, HSBC has been prosecuted in the USA, France and Belgium. But here the man who was in charge of the bank at the time has been given a peerage and government job with a 135 grand salary! | |||
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"I'm fully aware of the abuses and down right criminality in some areas of the financial sector and they should be dealt with accordingly. However the full on witch hunt against anyone or anything to do with banking is a very dangerous course that could end up in disaster. I find threads like this as a good source of amusement though. I see and hear many people who are very quick to demand the head of any "fat cat" banker on a spike, but in the next breath are arguing that the chairman of their favourite football team should chuck 250 grand a week at "Carlos Kickaball" so he can buy next years overpriced replica shirt with a picture of a silver pot on it. Sometimes you really couldn't make it up. What shite! Carlos Kickball, is the business you prat! If he fails to preform he looses his bonus and job and the business fails. Bankers are still collecting millions in bonuses for loosing billions! Can you spot the flaw in your pro Tory pro bank stance?" I am pro Tory and bloody well proud of it, although the current version of the party is a bit too leftie for me. As for the "what shite" and "prat" bit. I think a quick look around the Premier league would find quite a few under performing "Carlos Kickaball's" on bloody fat five year contracts that the clubs would love to cancel in a jiffy. Contracts are contracts in all businesses including football and banking. The only "shite" I read on here are from the "prats" who still think the bloody vindictive, useless Labour party could anything more than a bath, let alone the country. | |||
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"Would any of those who wanted proof of the Tories stealing from poor to give to rich care to comment? "Are you able to clarify your point.Are we talking about careful tax planning which is legal or tax evasion which is not . ? What is the correlation to the Tory party ? Do you have any proof to analyse which parties supported which schemes. ? | |||
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"I'm fully aware of the abuses and down right criminality in some areas of the financial sector and they should be dealt with accordingly. However the full on witch hunt against anyone or anything to do with banking is a very dangerous course that could end up in disaster. I find threads like this as a good source of amusement though. I see and hear many people who are very quick to demand the head of any "fat cat" banker on a spike, but in the next breath are arguing that the chairman of their favourite football team should chuck 250 grand a week at "Carlos Kickaball" so he can buy next years overpriced replica shirt with a picture of a silver pot on it. Sometimes you really couldn't make it up. What shite! Carlos Kickball, is the business you prat! If he fails to preform he looses his bonus and job and the business fails. Bankers are still collecting millions in bonuses for loosing billions! Can you spot the flaw in your pro Tory pro bank stance? I am pro Tory and bloody well proud of it, although the current version of the party is a bit too leftie for me. As for the "what shite" and "prat" bit. I think a quick look around the Premier league would find quite a few under performing "Carlos Kickaball's" on bloody fat five year contracts that the clubs would love to cancel in a jiffy. Contracts are contracts in all businesses including football and banking. The only "shite" I read on here are from the "prats" who still think the bloody vindictive, useless Labour party could anything more than a bath, let alone the country." As you say your Tory and proud! Is that why you no longer live in this country and choose to live in the most regulated country in the EU? | |||
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"I'm fully aware of the abuses and down right criminality in some areas of the financial sector and they should be dealt with accordingly. However the full on witch hunt against anyone or anything to do with banking is a very dangerous course that could end up in disaster. I find threads like this as a good source of amusement though. I see and hear many people who are very quick to demand the head of any "fat cat" banker on a spike, but in the next breath are arguing that the chairman of their favourite football team should chuck 250 grand a week at "Carlos Kickaball" so he can buy next years overpriced replica shirt with a picture of a silver pot on it. Sometimes you really couldn't make it up. What shite! Carlos Kickball, is the business you prat! If he fails to preform he looses his bonus and job and the business fails. Bankers are still collecting millions in bonuses for loosing billions! Can you spot the flaw in your pro Tory pro bank stance? I am pro Tory and bloody well proud of it, although the current version of the party is a bit too leftie for me. As for the "what shite" and "prat" bit. I think a quick look around the Premier league would find quite a few under performing "Carlos Kickaball's" on bloody fat five year contracts that the clubs would love to cancel in a jiffy. Contracts are contracts in all businesses including football and banking. The only "shite" I read on here are from the "prats" who still think the bloody vindictive, useless Labour party could anything more than a bath, let alone the country. As you say your Tory and proud! Is that why you no longer live in this country and choose to live in the most regulated country in the EU?" Yes I did leave because I'm Tory and proud of it. When I left the Bliar creature was still PM. 
As for choosing Germany. I didn't really. I left to go to Spain and lived there quite happily for a few years. It was only when I met the Mrs (who is German) we decided to split our time between the two countries.
Always remember this when you assume something.
you make an ASS out of U by trying to make one of ME | |||
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"Rather than spend time arguing over who's to blame, maybe we should just agree tax evasion is wrong and concentrate on stopping it." Well said | |||
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"Rather than spend time arguing over who's to blame, maybe we should just agree tax evasion is wrong and concentrate on stopping it." this.. all governments fuck things up to some degree, that's possibly never going to change.. instead of the squabbling about your lot and my lot and their lot whilst those in power maintain their status quo perhaps we should all regardless of political persuasion accept some fundamental issue's need a common consensus which may just persuade those who can do to actually do so.. | |||
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"Anyone who thinks that there is any substantiative difference between the Labour and Conservative parties is deluding themselves. All the main parties (and UKIP too) are simply seeking to protect the vested interests of the rich. Supporting them blindly like opposing football teams is just buying into their big lie." Shhhhs...don't type that so loudly,ya don't want them knowing your on to them | |||
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"Would any of those who wanted proof of the Tories stealing from poor to give to rich care to comment?
Aren't you missing the point that the deregulation of banks by the previous government when all this deliberate tax evasion and avoidance came about? Maybe someone other than the tories were to blame for that, what do you reckon?
Actually it was the Tories under Thatcher who deregulated the financial markets including the banks. In fact in 1996 one of the Tory claims was that labour would re-regulate the financial sector and to stop that from happening we needed another Tory government. Labour made a promise that they would not interfere with the financial markets or regulate them.
Then the banks sold sub-prime, trousered the profits and nearly bankrupted the world! And according to the Tories that was all Labours fault!
Bet that there will be some Tory on the box soon blaming Labour for them giving a fraudster a peerage and government job! "Maggie is dead, long live Maggie's legacy. She knew the price of everything and the value of nothing. Hence wages for millions are close to minimum, and the bankers get away with murder. | |||
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"seems odd that the usual few from the extreme right on this thread are still attemting to defend what has happened in this instance. stephen green has been caught with his snout in the trough and has been rewarded by his personal friends in the tory government by being given a peership and a ministerial position. it doesn't look good that the tory party have persistantly surround themselves with criminal wrong doers for decades now and reward them with decision making powers that affect us all." this happened in 2005 ... before the Tories were elected.  | |||
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"seems odd that the usual few from the extreme right on this thread are still attemting to defend what has happened in this instance. stephen green has been caught with his snout in the trough and has been rewarded by his personal friends in the tory government by being given a peership and a ministerial position. it doesn't look good that the tory party have persistantly surround themselves with criminal wrong doers for decades now and reward them with decision making powers that affect us all. this happened in 2005 ... before the Tories were elected. "the whistle was only blown in 2010 .... on the tory watch .... and 8 months later stephen green was rewarded by the present government ... the government who had untill now suppressed the story ... it's this prime minister and this government who are now wearing the egg | |||
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"Would any of those who wanted proof of the Tories stealing from poor to give to rich care to comment?
Aren't you missing the point that the deregulation of banks by the previous government when all this deliberate tax evasion and avoidance came about? Maybe someone other than the tories were to blame for that, what do you reckon?
Actually it was the Tories under Thatcher who deregulated the financial markets including the banks. In fact in 1996 one of the Tory claims was that labour would re-regulate the financial sector and to stop that from happening we needed another Tory government. Labour made a promise that they would not interfere with the financial markets or regulate them.
Then the banks sold sub-prime, trousered the profits and nearly bankrupted the world! And according to the Tories that was all Labours fault!
Bet that there will be some Tory on the box soon blaming Labour for them giving a fraudster a peerage and government job!
Maggie is dead, long live Maggie's legacy.
She knew the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Hence wages for millions are close to minimum, and the bankers get away with murder. "Yes Maggie is dead and if the Tories under Major and Cameron and the Labour party hadn't betrayed her legacy Britain would be a lot better off today. Yes she did know the price of everything and what she did know the value of was good housekeeping, whether it be at home or for the nation. Remember in her day it was public sector debt repayment not borrowing. Yes she smashed the unions, and anyone who lived through the (literally) dark days of the 70's knows only too well that they needed smashing and smashing hard. If anything wage stagnation has been in spite of her rather than because of her. Does anyone think that the average Polish plumber would be rushing off to join the TGWU? Dream on. The real cause of wage stagnation is the uncontrolled immigration of low and medium skilled workers from eastern Europe who are more than happy to work for minimum wage because it's double (or more) than what they can earn in their home country's. Maggie would have fought tooth and nail to either keep those country's out of the EU or at least had proper immigration controls in place before they joined. Low wages are down to TONY BLAIR and no-one else. It is very easy to use her as the scapegoat for all of Britain's current ills because she was the only one who told the truth, sometimes unpalatable, but nonetheless the truth. What has followed has been a steady stream of liars and bullshitters only too ready to tell the election fodder masses what they want to hear. "Vote for me and I will give you the earth" while ramping up the nations debt to pay for it. Now it's payback time. Enjoy. | |||
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"seems odd that the usual few from the extreme right on this thread are still attemting to defend what has happened in this instance. stephen green has been caught with his snout in the trough and has been rewarded by his personal friends in the tory government by being given a peership and a ministerial position. it doesn't look good that the tory party have persistantly surround themselves with criminal wrong doers for decades now and reward them with decision making powers that affect us all." Not defending Green at all. If he has been caught with his fingers in the till then chop 'em off. Funny how everyone who is not a scumbag commie is extreme right. | |||
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 .
Don't make me laugh, your the proverbial frog simmering slowly in that nice big pan. | |||
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"seems odd that the usual few from the extreme right on this thread are still attemting to defend what has happened in this instance. stephen green has been caught with his snout in the trough and has been rewarded by his personal friends in the tory government by being given a peership and a ministerial position. it doesn't look good that the tory party have persistantly surround themselves with criminal wrong doers for decades now and reward them with decision making powers that affect us all. Not defending Green at all. If he has been caught with his fingers in the till then chop 'em off. Funny how everyone who is not a scumbag commie is extreme right. "not nearly as funny as the right wing extremists view that if your not ultra right you must be a stalinist .... there is no defending green on this one .... nor is there any defending cameron and his govt for rewarding such behaviour even though they were in posession of the hard drive info supplied to them by the french govt for so long prior to greens peership and his award of a ministerial post | |||
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"seems odd that the usual few from the extreme right on this thread are still attemting to defend what has happened in this instance. stephen green has been caught with his snout in the trough and has been rewarded by his personal friends in the tory government by being given a peership and a ministerial position. it doesn't look good that the tory party have persistantly surround themselves with criminal wrong doers for decades now and reward them with decision making powers that affect us all. Not defending Green at all. If he has been caught with his fingers in the till then chop 'em off. Funny how everyone who is not a scumbag commie is extreme right.
not nearly as funny as the right wing extremists view that if your not ultra right you must be a stalinist ....
there is no defending green on this one .... nor is there any defending cameron and his govt for rewarding such behaviour even though they were in posession of the hard drive info supplied to them by the french govt for so long prior to greens peership and his award of a ministerial post"On that one point we agree. I'm no lover of Cameron but I wouldn't rush to chuck the baby out with the bath water either. That is where we differ. | |||
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"Would any of those who wanted proof of the Tories stealing from poor to give to rich care to comment?
Aren't you missing the point that the deregulation of banks by the previous government when all this deliberate tax evasion and avoidance came about? Maybe someone other than the tories were to blame for that, what do you reckon?
Actually it was the Tories under Thatcher who deregulated the financial markets including the banks. In fact in 1996 one of the Tory claims was that labour would re-regulate the financial sector and to stop that from happening we needed another Tory government. Labour made a promise that they would not interfere with the financial markets or regulate them.
Then the banks sold sub-prime, trousered the profits and nearly bankrupted the world! And according to the Tories that was all Labours fault!
Bet that there will be some Tory on the box soon blaming Labour for them giving a fraudster a peerage and government job!
Maggie is dead, long live Maggie's legacy.
She knew the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Hence wages for millions are close to minimum, and the bankers get away with murder.
Yes Maggie is dead and if the Tories under Major and Cameron and the Labour party hadn't betrayed her legacy Britain would be a lot better off today.
Yes she did know the price of everything and what she did know the value of was good housekeeping, whether it be at home or for the nation. Remember in her day it was public sector debt repayment not borrowing. Yes she smashed the unions, and anyone who lived through the (literally) dark days of the 70's knows only too well that they needed smashing and smashing hard.
If anything wage stagnation has been in spite of her rather than because of her. Does anyone think that the average Polish plumber would be rushing off to join the TGWU? Dream on. The real cause of wage stagnation is the uncontrolled immigration of low and medium skilled workers from eastern Europe who are more than happy to work for minimum wage because it's double (or more) than what they can earn in their home country's. Maggie would have fought tooth and nail to either keep those country's out of the EU or at least had proper immigration controls in place before they joined.
Low wages are down to TONY BLAIR and no-one else.
It is very easy to use her as the scapegoat for all of Britain's current ills because she was the only one who told the truth, sometimes unpalatable, but nonetheless the truth.
What has followed has been a steady stream of liars and bullshitters only too ready to tell the election fodder masses what they want to hear. "Vote for me and I will give you the earth" while ramping up the nations debt to pay for it. Now it's payback time. Enjoy.
". Cloak and daggers. She never cut a single budget while in office in what 11 years? Maggie the budget slayer, fucking joke all she did was sell everything off and repaid some debt with that and then deregulate the financial sector and reaped the illicit gains.... Close down industry we'll all prosper with finance and service sector!! Ohh yeah until that finance sector needs 35 years of budget money for a bailout.... And how do they thank us for saving their financial asses... By screwing everyone again. | |||
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" .....Funny how everyone who is not a scumbag commie is extreme right. "And how, in some blinkered eyes, everyone who isn't extreme right wing is a 'scumbag' commie. Fascism isn't dead. | |||
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"....... stephen green has been caught with his snout in the trough and has been rewarded by his personal friends in the tory government by being given a peership and a ministerial position......" Snout in the trough???? How's that? Are you reading the same story? | |||
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"seems odd that the usual few from the extreme right on this thread are still attemting to defend what has happened in this instance. stephen green has been caught with his snout in the trough and has been rewarded by his personal friends in the tory government by being given a peership and a ministerial position. it doesn't look good that the tory party have persistantly surround themselves with criminal wrong doers for decades now and reward them with decision making powers that affect us all. Not defending Green at all. If he has been caught with his fingers in the till then chop 'em off. Funny how everyone who is not a scumbag commie is extreme right.
not nearly as funny as the right wing extremists view that if your not ultra right you must be a stalinist ....
there is no defending green on this one .... nor is there any defending cameron and his govt for rewarding such behaviour even though they were in posession of the hard drive info supplied to them by the french govt for so long prior to greens peership and his award of a ministerial post
On that one point we agree. I'm no lover of Cameron but I wouldn't rush to chuck the baby out with the bath water either. That is where we differ."as it happens i haven't suggested anything, no solutions, no punitive measures, nothing ... least of all throwing out the baby, the bath and the water .... all i have pointed out is the facts of this case as reported in the mainstream press and reminding some of the usual forum posters that here is the proof they previously asked for regarding the tories decades old practice of rewarding of their wealthy friends and also of the poor judgement they show when it comes to vetting those who work for them in positions of power with regard to criminal behaviour | |||
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"I quite like all this tax evasion, tax dodging, you willingly helped out banks, hedge fund dodging, the dismantling of power plants has run into billions under your watch type bleats - same with fuel and countless other measures. If the Tories hadn't cut the escalator along throwing out the policy on fixing energy prices, we would all be paying through our noses! As soon as the price of fuel dropped (as it has) we pay less, but under Labour "escalators" and "prices fixes", if they weren't abolished or reversed, we would still now be paying more. ALL OF THE ABOVE INCLUDING THE TAX HAVENS..... IMPLEMENTED AND AIDED BY THE PREVIOUS LABOUR GOVT. STILL BEING CLEANED UP BY THE PRESENT GOVT. Black holes in budgets. Quangos set up costing millions on millions, debt and lending through the roof and yet when balancing and accountability is talked about, people don't seem to gather that this government has inherited a lot of the problems from the previous government. Not least a near bankrupt country ... which is now one of the, IF NOT THE strongest country in Europe. But, it has also had to deal with, possibly what...? near 3 maybe 4 European recessions since coming into power? All of these affect the British economy, yet are easily forgotten - as we have had to curb out spending for what less than 5 whole years! OH, lets not forget Brown selling off ALL OUR GOLD RESERVES when the price of gold was at one of its lowest prices in recorded history!! And Blair being widely renowned as a war criminal - listening to no advisors assigned to him as he was bowing to Bush. That, and having the sense IN PUTTING NOT ONE QUOTA OR MEASURE IN FOR CROSSING OUR BOARDERS in 2003, when he decided to let the whole of Europe have a free claim on to out welfare system. Madness, and something that has has caused disruption ever since. It seems the foresight of Labour (when in power and trying to get back in power) compared to the clean up operation that the Conservatives have to do is grossly skewed. I am not saying that the Conservatives are whiter than white at all, the deroom tax is something that is just shameful, the social and welfare bills need to be reformed absolutely. But on the whole, they at least seem to go to work in a morning, in stead of fiddling about with their Stan Laurel ties and Oliver Hardy pants. Lanbour - what an annoyance. Lib Dems ... need more MP's and backbone. " . Quite frankly that is just rambling nonsense with not a single piece of truth to any point. | |||
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"Panorama 20:30 tonight, bizarre that the uk boss of hsbc at the time became a tory peer." I'll watch it for sure. | |||
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"Would any of those who wanted proof of the Tories stealing from poor to give to rich care to comment?
Aren't you missing the point that the deregulation of banks by the previous government when all this deliberate tax evasion and avoidance came about? Maybe someone other than the tories were to blame for that, what do you reckon?
Actually it was the Tories under Thatcher who deregulated the financial markets including the banks. In fact in 1996 one of the Tory claims was that labour would re-regulate the financial sector and to stop that from happening we needed another Tory government. Labour made a promise that they would not interfere with the financial markets or regulate them.
Then the banks sold sub-prime, trousered the profits and nearly bankrupted the world! And according to the Tories that was all Labours fault!
Bet that there will be some Tory on the box soon blaming Labour for them giving a fraudster a peerage and government job!
Maggie is dead, long live Maggie's legacy.
She knew the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Hence wages for millions are close to minimum, and the bankers get away with murder.
Yes Maggie is dead and if the Tories under Major and Cameron and the Labour party hadn't betrayed her legacy Britain would be a lot better off today.
Yes she did know the price of everything and what she did know the value of was good housekeeping, whether it be at home or for the nation. Remember in her day it was public sector debt repayment not borrowing. Yes she smashed the unions, and anyone who lived through the (literally) dark days of the 70's knows only too well that they needed smashing and smashing hard.
If anything wage stagnation has been in spite of her rather than because of her. Does anyone think that the average Polish plumber would be rushing off to join the TGWU? Dream on. The real cause of wage stagnation is the uncontrolled immigration of low and medium skilled workers from eastern Europe who are more than happy to work for minimum wage because it's double (or more) than what they can earn in their home country's. Maggie would have fought tooth and nail to either keep those country's out of the EU or at least had proper immigration controls in place before they joined.
Low wages are down to TONY BLAIR and no-one else.
It is very easy to use her as the scapegoat for all of Britain's current ills because she was the only one who told the truth, sometimes unpalatable, but nonetheless the truth.
What has followed has been a steady stream of liars and bullshitters only too ready to tell the election fodder masses what they want to hear. "Vote for me and I will give you the earth" while ramping up the nations debt to pay for it. Now it's payback time. Enjoy.
.
Cloak and daggers.
She never cut a single budget while in office in what 11 years?
Maggie the budget slayer, fucking joke all she did was sell everything off and repaid some debt with that and then deregulate the financial sector and reaped the illicit gains.... Close down industry we'll all prosper with finance and service sector!! Ohh yeah until that finance sector needs 35 years of budget money for a bailout.... And how do they thank us for saving their financial asses... By screwing everyone again."  | |||
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"The financial services sector is the biggest in the UK so don't be too quick to seek for its destruction. However, illegal behaviour should result in criminal charges, I hope the police deal with this in the appropriate fashion. As for fat cat bonuses etc, some progress has been made to moderate this, but not enough. Reward success, fine, but not failure. Renumeration needs to be structured on a long term basis, and should take into account long term profitability rather than short term number fiddling. It isn't hard to do." . You mean those fat cat bosses now doing share buy back with company profits, pushing up stock prices and claiming better pay for a better stock price... As Jackson said. I'm forever blowing bubbles.. | |||
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"seems odd that the usual few from the extreme right on this thread are still attemting to defend what has happened in this instance. stephen green has been caught with his snout in the trough and has been rewarded by his personal friends in the tory government by being given a peership and a ministerial position. it doesn't look good that the tory party have persistantly surround themselves with criminal wrong doers for decades now and reward them with decision making powers that affect us all. this happened in 2005 ... before the Tories were elected.
the whistle was only blown in 2010 .... on the tory watch .... and 8 months later stephen green was rewarded by the present government ... the government who had untill now suppressed the story ... it's this prime minister and this government who are now wearing the egg "The Guardian reports about an hour ago now, this was uncovered in 2005-2006 when a fraud investigator for HSBC noticed a mass of dubious records when asked to transfer files. He handed over a hard drive to French authorities. It was then given to interested European countries. I dont want to split hairs or get into any investigative reporting - but it would appear, it would have happened under the still ever more deregulated banking system a Labour government | |||
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"Would any of those who wanted proof of the Tories stealing from poor to give to rich care to comment?
Aren't you missing the point that the deregulation of banks by the previous government when all this deliberate tax evasion and avoidance came about? Maybe someone other than the tories were to blame for that, what do you reckon?
Actually it was the Tories under Thatcher who deregulated the financial markets including the banks. In fact in 1996 one of the Tory claims was that labour would re-regulate the financial sector and to stop that from happening we needed another Tory government. Labour made a promise that they would not interfere with the financial markets or regulate them.
Then the banks sold sub-prime, trousered the profits and nearly bankrupted the world! And according to the Tories that was all Labours fault!
Bet that there will be some Tory on the box soon blaming Labour for them giving a fraudster a peerage and government job!
Maggie is dead, long live Maggie's legacy.
She knew the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Hence wages for millions are close to minimum, and the bankers get away with murder.
Yes Maggie is dead and if the Tories under Major and Cameron and the Labour party hadn't betrayed her legacy Britain would be a lot better off today.
Yes she did know the price of everything and what she did know the value of was good housekeeping, whether it be at home or for the nation. Remember in her day it was public sector debt repayment not borrowing. Yes she smashed the unions, and anyone who lived through the (literally) dark days of the 70's knows only too well that they needed smashing and smashing hard.
If anything wage stagnation has been in spite of her rather than because of her. Does anyone think that the average Polish plumber would be rushing off to join the TGWU? Dream on. The real cause of wage stagnation is the uncontrolled immigration of low and medium skilled workers from eastern Europe who are more than happy to work for minimum wage because it's double (or more) than what they can earn in their home country's. Maggie would have fought tooth and nail to either keep those country's out of the EU or at least had proper immigration controls in place before they joined.
Low wages are down to TONY BLAIR and no-one else.
It is very easy to use her as the scapegoat for all of Britain's current ills because she was the only one who told the truth, sometimes unpalatable, but nonetheless the truth.
What has followed has been a steady stream of liars and bullshitters only too ready to tell the election fodder masses what they want to hear. "Vote for me and I will give you the earth" while ramping up the nations debt to pay for it. Now it's payback time. Enjoy.
.
Cloak and daggers.
She never cut a single budget while in office in what 11 years?
Maggie the budget slayer, fucking joke all she did was sell everything off and repaid some debt with that and then deregulate the financial sector and reaped the illicit gains.... Close down industry we'll all prosper with finance and service sector!! Ohh yeah until that finance sector needs 35 years of budget money for a bailout.... And how do they thank us for saving their financial asses... By screwing everyone again."I think you mean "smoke and mirrors" but I'll not be too pedantic
Yes she closed down a few industries. British Steel burning a million quid a day (at 70's prices) to produce steel that nobody either wanted or could afford. I suppose I must mention coal at some point and yes most of the coal industry went on her watch. Funny thing is that most of the pits in Germany closed at around the same time, maybe Frau Thatcher closed them as well.
Flogged of a few things? Of course she did but be thankful that she flogged off the phones. If she hadn't you would still be waiting six months to have a 56k dial up modem installed.
British Leyland? WoW how could she flog the firm that gave us such legends of automotive innovation as the Austin Allegro, Morris Marina, Triumph TR7, Austin Ambassador Etc. Even the one they got (nearly) right, Triumph Stag, they bolloxed it with about the worst engine they could have found.
Financial sector? Well I think she got that about right. There were very few problems after big bang and it ran quite well during the 80's and 90's. A bit of boom and bust and the ERM debacle, but that is quite normal for the British economy. The problems only really started when Blair and Brown got hold of the tiller (or I should say let go of it) They were quite happy to turn a blind eye while the tax bucks were rolling in but then blamed everyone else when it went tits up.
She did eat my hamster though | |||
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"I must add that I find it funny that many are quick to point out that although the alleged wrongdoing by Green was in 2005 it was discovered in 2010 so it must be the Tory's fault, but everything that Labour screwed up must be Maggies fault. "Again - the Guardian reports the HSBC guy handed the hard drive to French authorities in 2005-2006? | |||
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"seems odd that the usual few from the extreme right on this thread are still attemting to defend what has happened in this instance. stephen green has been caught with his snout in the trough and has been rewarded by his personal friends in the tory government by being given a peership and a ministerial position. it doesn't look good that the tory party have persistantly surround themselves with criminal wrong doers for decades now and reward them with decision making powers that affect us all. this happened in 2005 ... before the Tories were elected.
the whistle was only blown in 2010 .... on the tory watch .... and 8 months later stephen green was rewarded by the present government ... the government who had untill now suppressed the story ... it's this prime minister and this government who are now wearing the egg
The Guardian reports about an hour ago now, this was uncovered in 2005-2006 when a fraud investigator for HSBC noticed a mass of dubious records when asked to transfer files. He handed over a hard drive to French authorities. It was then given to interested European countries.
I dont want to split hairs or get into any investigative reporting - but it would appear, it would have happened under the still ever more deregulated banking system a Labour government
"wrong .... you've missed the part where the hard drives were discovered and siezed by the french authorities in late 2009 and the subsequent fact that the info contained on them was handed over to the present tory government in 2010 .... which puts the whole thing firmly on the tories watch. | |||
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"I must add that I find it funny that many are quick to point out that although the alleged wrongdoing by Green was in 2005 it was discovered in 2010 so it must be the Tory's fault, but everything that Labour screwed up must be Maggies fault. "the point is that after they were fully informed in 2010 the tories, a whole 8 months later, decided to give green a position of power with a peership and a ministerial post .... this is back scratching at the highest level and is extremely questionable at best | |||
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"I must add that I find it funny that many are quick to point out that although the alleged wrongdoing by Green was in 2005 it was discovered in 2010 so it must be the Tory's fault, but everything that Labour screwed up must be Maggies fault.
the point is that after they were fully informed in 2010 the tories, a whole 8 months later, decided to give green a position of power with a peership and a ministerial post .... this is back scratching at the highest level and is extremely questionable at best"Why? Have you any idea of the size of HSBC and how many people it employs? As Chief Executive, the buck does stop with him but he cannot be held personally responsible for the activities of a quarter of a million employees who are scattered across the planet. This is is nothing more than a hysterical blame game. | |||
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"I am really struggling to understand all of this utter OUTRAGE. No-one has suggested for one second that Stephen Green was complicit in the activities of the SWISS arm of HSBC. This is just so typically modern British in the way public outrage is being stoked up over nothing. The very, very worst case scenario is that Green was not getting accurate reporting from one part of the Organisation. Remember that this is an Organisation that employs a quarter of a million people worldwide. Some of the comments on here about him "having his snout in the trough" are more libelous than factual. As for prosecutions... Since when did anyone other than the CPS make a prosecution? This is old, old news and has been investigated by HMRC - their statement... "We have systematically worked through all the Lagarde data. As a result tax, interest and penalties have now been paid by those who hid their assets in Switzerland to get out of paying tax. The decision to prosecute is made by the Crown Prosecution Service based on the facts."" naive and also an ostrich mentality .... sticking ones fingers in ones ears and shouting lalalalala over and over doesn't change the facts. he has been officially accused by the USA of being complicit in laundering money from mexican and columbian drug cartels, known terrorist groups, and breaking international sanctions imposed on iraq | |||
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"I must add that I find it funny that many are quick to point out that although the alleged wrongdoing by Green was in 2005 it was discovered in 2010 so it must be the Tory's fault, but everything that Labour screwed up must be Maggies fault.
the point is that after they were fully informed in 2010 the tories, a whole 8 months later, decided to give green a position of power with a peership and a ministerial post .... this is back scratching at the highest level and is extremely questionable at best
Why? Have you any idea of the size of HSBC and how many people it employs? As Chief Executive, the buck does stop with him but he cannot be held personally responsible for the activities of a quarter of a million employees who are scattered across the planet.
This is is nothing more than a hysterical blame game. ". They always say they don't know. They said they didn't know they were laundering money for Hezbollah, they said they didn't know they were laundering drug money for Mexican drug cartels they said they didn't know about there active scheme to employ psychpaths, they said they had no idea their wrapped up debt junk they sold clients was worthless but took derivatives on the loses just in case. They never fucking know anything. there like the three monkeys see no evil hear no evil speak no evil. | |||
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"Panorama 20:30 tonight, bizarre that the uk boss of hsbc at the time became a tory peer." I wouldn't say bizarre. I'd call it unsurprisingly predictable. | |||
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"I must add that I find it funny that many are quick to point out that although the alleged wrongdoing by Green was in 2005 it was discovered in 2010 so it must be the Tory's fault, but everything that Labour screwed up must be Maggies fault.
the point is that after they were fully informed in 2010 the tories, a whole 8 months later, decided to give green a position of power with a peership and a ministerial post .... this is back scratching at the highest level and is extremely questionable at best
Why? Have you any idea of the size of HSBC and how many people it employs? As Chief Executive, the buck does stop with him but he cannot be held personally responsible for the activities of a quarter of a million employees who are scattered across the planet.
This is is nothing more than a hysterical blame game. ". Ohh yes ceo's and directors are held personally responsible for the actions of the company and it's employees in these circumstances. The amount of employees you have is neither here nor there. | |||
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" Why? Have you any idea of the size of HSBC and how many people it employs? As Chief Executive, the buck does stop with him but he cannot be held personally responsible for the activities of a quarter of a million employees who are scattered across the planet. This is is nothing more than a hysterical blame game. " your wrong, he should have known that the company he was being paid very well for running was involved in unlawful activities.. its not just one or two bad eggs given the numbers of people involved.. | |||
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"Would any of those who wanted proof of the Tories stealing from poor to give to rich care to comment? ". It might be best to consider that most pension funds have investments in HSBC and it employs a significant number of people . Pensioners are dependent on dividends from HSBC for their income . What possible correlation is there between HSBC and the Tory party.? | |||
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"Would any of those who wanted proof of the Tories stealing from poor to give to rich care to comment?
Aren't you missing the point that the deregulation of banks by the previous government when all this deliberate tax evasion and avoidance came about? Maybe someone other than the tories were to blame for that, what do you reckon?
Actually it was the Tories under Thatcher who deregulated the financial markets including the banks. In fact in 1996 one of the Tory claims was that labour would re-regulate the financial sector and to stop that from happening we needed another Tory government. Labour made a promise that they would not interfere with the financial markets or regulate them.
Then the banks sold sub-prime, trousered the profits and nearly bankrupted the world! And according to the Tories that was all Labours fault!
Bet that there will be some Tory on the box soon blaming Labour for them giving a fraudster a peerage and government job!
Maggie is dead, long live Maggie's legacy.
She knew the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Hence wages for millions are close to minimum, and the bankers get away with murder.
Yes Maggie is dead and if the Tories under Major and Cameron and the Labour party hadn't betrayed her legacy Britain would be a lot better off today.
Yes she did know the price of everything and what she did know the value of was good housekeeping, whether it be at home or for the nation. Remember in her day it was public sector debt repayment not borrowing. Yes she smashed the unions, and anyone who lived through the (literally) dark days of the 70's knows only too well that they needed smashing and smashing hard.
If anything wage stagnation has been in spite of her rather than because of her. Does anyone think that the average Polish plumber would be rushing off to join the TGWU? Dream on. The real cause of wage stagnation is the uncontrolled immigration of low and medium skilled workers from eastern Europe who are more than happy to work for minimum wage because it's double (or more) than what they can earn in their home country's. Maggie would have fought tooth and nail to either keep those country's out of the EU or at least had proper immigration controls in place before they joined.
Low wages are down to TONY BLAIR and no-one else.
It is very easy to use her as the scapegoat for all of Britain's current ills because she was the only one who told the truth, sometimes unpalatable, but nonetheless the truth.
What has followed has been a steady stream of liars and bullshitters only too ready to tell the election fodder masses what they want to hear. "Vote for me and I will give you the earth" while ramping up the nations debt to pay for it. Now it's payback time. Enjoy.
.
Cloak and daggers.
She never cut a single budget while in office in what 11 years?
Maggie the budget slayer, fucking joke all she did was sell everything off and repaid some debt with that and then deregulate the financial sector and reaped the illicit gains.... Close down industry we'll all prosper with finance and service sector!! Ohh yeah until that finance sector needs 35 years of budget money for a bailout.... And how do they thank us for saving their financial asses... By screwing everyone again.
I think you mean "smoke and mirrors" but I'll not be too pedantic
Yes she closed down a few industries. British Steel burning a million quid a day (at 70's prices) to produce steel that nobody either wanted or could afford. I suppose I must mention coal at some point and yes most of the coal industry went on her watch. Funny thing is that most of the pits in Germany closed at around the same time, maybe Frau Thatcher closed them as well.
Flogged of a few things? Of course she did but be thankful that she flogged off the phones. If she hadn't you would still be waiting six months to have a 56k dial up modem installed.
British Leyland? WoW how could she flog the firm that gave us such legends of automotive innovation as the Austin Allegro, Morris Marina, Triumph TR7, Austin Ambassador Etc. Even the one they got (nearly) right, Triumph Stag, they bolloxed it with about the worst engine they could have found.
Financial sector? Well I think she got that about right. There were very few problems after big bang and it ran quite well during the 80's and 90's. A bit of boom and bust and the ERM debacle, but that is quite normal for the British economy. The problems only really started when Blair and Brown got hold of the tiller (or I should say let go of it) They were quite happy to turn a blind eye while the tax bucks were rolling in but then blamed everyone else when it went tits up.
She did eat my hamster though ". And we can thank the labour government for ruining final salary pension schemes by removing the tax relief on dividend income and thus ensuring the funds were worth less. Pensioners are now paying the price for this decision.   | |||
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"Would any of those who wanted proof of the Tories stealing from poor to give to rich care to comment?
Aren't you missing the point that the deregulation of banks by the previous government when all this deliberate tax evasion and avoidance came about? Maybe someone other than the tories were to blame for that, what do you reckon?
Actually it was the Tories under Thatcher who deregulated the financial markets including the banks. In fact in 1996 one of the Tory claims was that labour would re-regulate the financial sector and to stop that from happening we needed another Tory government. Labour made a promise that they would not interfere with the financial markets or regulate them.
Then the banks sold sub-prime, trousered the profits and nearly bankrupted the world! And according to the Tories that was all Labours fault!
Bet that there will be some Tory on the box soon blaming Labour for them giving a fraudster a peerage and government job!
Maggie is dead, long live Maggie's legacy.
She knew the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Hence wages for millions are close to minimum, and the bankers get away with murder.
Yes Maggie is dead and if the Tories under Major and Cameron and the Labour party hadn't betrayed her legacy Britain would be a lot better off today.
Yes she did know the price of everything and what she did know the value of was good housekeeping, whether it be at home or for the nation. Remember in her day it was public sector debt repayment not borrowing. Yes she smashed the unions, and anyone who lived through the (literally) dark days of the 70's knows only too well that they needed smashing and smashing hard.
If anything wage stagnation has been in spite of her rather than because of her. Does anyone think that the average Polish plumber would be rushing off to join the TGWU? Dream on. The real cause of wage stagnation is the uncontrolled immigration of low and medium skilled workers from eastern Europe who are more than happy to work for minimum wage because it's double (or more) than what they can earn in their home country's. Maggie would have fought tooth and nail to either keep those country's out of the EU or at least had proper immigration controls in place before they joined.
Low wages are down to TONY BLAIR and no-one else.
It is very easy to use her as the scapegoat for all of Britain's current ills because she was the only one who told the truth, sometimes unpalatable, but nonetheless the truth.
What has followed has been a steady stream of liars and bullshitters only too ready to tell the election fodder masses what they want to hear. "Vote for me and I will give you the earth" while ramping up the nations debt to pay for it. Now it's payback time. Enjoy.
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Cloak and daggers.
She never cut a single budget while in office in what 11 years?
Maggie the budget slayer, fucking joke all she did was sell everything off and repaid some debt with that and then deregulate the financial sector and reaped the illicit gains.... Close down industry we'll all prosper with finance and service sector!! Ohh yeah until that finance sector needs 35 years of budget money for a bailout.... And how do they thank us for saving their financial asses... By screwing everyone again.
I think you mean "smoke and mirrors" but I'll not be too pedantic
Yes she closed down a few industries. British Steel burning a million quid a day (at 70's prices) to produce steel that nobody either wanted or could afford. I suppose I must mention coal at some point and yes most of the coal industry went on her watch. Funny thing is that most of the pits in Germany closed at around the same time, maybe Frau Thatcher closed them as well.
Flogged of a few things? Of course she did but be thankful that she flogged off the phones. If she hadn't you would still be waiting six months to have a 56k dial up modem installed.
British Leyland? WoW how could she flog the firm that gave us such legends of automotive innovation as the Austin Allegro, Morris Marina, Triumph TR7, Austin Ambassador Etc. Even the one they got (nearly) right, Triumph Stag, they bolloxed it with about the worst engine they could have found.
Financial sector? Well I think she got that about right. There were very few problems after big bang and it ran quite well during the 80's and 90's. A bit of boom and bust and the ERM debacle, but that is quite normal for the British economy. The problems only really started when Blair and Brown got hold of the tiller (or I should say let go of it) They were quite happy to turn a blind eye while the tax bucks were rolling in but then blamed everyone else when it went tits up.
She did eat my hamster though . And we can thank the labour government for ruining final salary pension schemes by removing the tax relief on dividend income and thus ensuring the funds were worth less. Pensioners are now paying the price for this decision. ". What they ruined it even more than the pension companies who invested in triple a rated debt shite, Greek bonds and Lehman brothers shares. When you hand your hard earned money over to shisters in suits and fancy cars, you get everything you deserve. | |||
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"Would any of those who wanted proof of the Tories stealing from poor to give to rich care to comment? "Just a slight problem this came to light between 2005 & 2007, sorry who was in government then and who deregulated the banks, hang on it was LABOUR the party for the common man. They are all as bad as each other don't get suckered into believing the hype, if their manifestos were legally binding then it would be one sided A5. Peace out | |||
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"You lot are all sour cos you wish you could get away with major fraud and get rewarded :P...maybe he got rewarded for having balls to commit major fraud "not everyone wants to be a criminal.. if that's your thing then fine just don't assume it works for others.. | |||
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"A good film to watch is Inside Job narrated by Matt Damon. Is essentially outlines how the banking system, and the vested interests within it, have corrupted the Political and Academic circles in Western countries - especially the USA, Iceland and the UK " Iceland had the sense to jail their bankers and reform there whole banking system. We could no harm in taking a leaf out of their book but the system is so corrupt it will never happen | |||
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"The Government refused an interview... Green refused to comment... I wonder how long they can stonewall for..." . Why should they have to comment?. Green is now ordained in the church and was regarded as a decent banker who even surrendered his bonus . | |||
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"The Government refused an interview... Green refused to comment... I wonder how long they can stonewall for.... Why should they have to comment?. Green is now ordained in the church and was regarded as a decent banker who even surrendered his bonus . " Green was the CEO of HSBC at the time these offences were committed and along with the rest of the board is legally liable for any criminal actions of his subordinates. As such I would have thought that he would want to go on record as soon as possible. After all any police officer will tell you that the only people who refuse to comment when confronted with evidence of their criminal wrongdoings are those who are guilty as sin and hope that silence will help them get away with it! | |||
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"Would any of those who wanted proof of the Tories stealing from poor to give to rich care to comment?
Between 2005 & 2007?
That is the big problem we have. It went on under the previous government too. Going to watch the programme tonight before I feel able to comment in any more depth....but sounds like HSBC were totally complicit in this fraud.....not holding my breath but maybe this could be the trigger for some of these bankers getting jailed?
Problem is they are too close to politicians in all three of the main parties."Good time not to vote for the top 4. Ukips bankrolled by former tories too. Vote green. Well. That's my opinion. Backed up by fact. | |||
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"The Government refused an interview... Green refused to comment... I wonder how long they can stonewall for.... Why should they have to comment?. Green is now ordained in the church and was regarded as a decent banker who even surrendered his bonus . Green was the CEO of HSBC at the time these offences were committed and along with the rest of the board is legally liable for any criminal actions of his subordinates. As such I would have thought that he would want to go on record as soon as possible. After all any police officer will tell you that the only people who refuse to comment when confronted with evidence of their criminal wrongdoings are those who are guilty as sin and hope that silence will help them get away with it!" . I am uncertain as to why refusing to comment would imply that you are guilty . We are only speculating that HSBC may have committed any offences. There is no obligation to reply to questions from the press and in many cases their requests for information are best ignored. I would not be paying too much attention to thr whistle blowers who are disgruntled employees . | |||
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" There is no obligation to reply to questions from the press and in many cases their requests for information are best ignored. "seems strange that the far right are now calling for the information to be ignored ... belgiums view at the moment is that if hsbc do not co-operate fully then international arresst warrants will be issued for the heads of the company past and present ... but then they haven't coluded to give past heads of hsbc ministerial posts and peerships. | |||
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"We are only speculating that HSBC may have committed any offences. There is no obligation to reply to questions from the press and in many cases their requests for information are best ignored. I would not be paying too much attention to thr whistle blowers who are disgruntled employees . "Jesus Christ that just kills me it really does. | |||
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" There is no obligation to reply to questions from the press and in many cases their requests for information are best ignored.
seems strange that the far right are now calling for the information to be ignored ... belgiums view at the moment is that if hsbc do not co-operate fully then international arresst warrants will be issued for the heads of the company past and present ... but then they haven't coluded to give past heads of hsbc ministerial posts and peerships.". Only the individuals who took part in these schemes would know if they satisfied the releveant criteria to make the interest earned tax free. HMRC have already assesses those individuals who did not meet the criteria and ensured that they paid any tax due . | |||
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" There is no obligation to reply to questions from the press and in many cases their requests for information are best ignored.
seems strange that the far right are now calling for the information to be ignored ... belgiums view at the moment is that if hsbc do not co-operate fully then international arresst warrants will be issued for the heads of the company past and present ... but then they haven't coluded to give past heads of hsbc ministerial posts and peerships.. Only the individuals who took part in these schemes would know if they satisfied the releveant criteria to make the interest earned tax free. HMRC have already assesses those individuals who did not meet the criteria and ensured that they paid any tax due ."wrong .... you're not even bothering to read the details that have been published so far are you?  | |||
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"We are only speculating that HSBC may have committed any offences. There is no obligation to reply to questions from the press and in many cases their requests for information are best ignored. I would not be paying too much attention to thr whistle blowers who are disgruntled employees .
Jesus Christ that just kills me it really does."this.. head in the sand.. | |||
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"I just find it all interesting that the Swiss are going after trying to get an arrest warrant for the original whistleblower who gave the information to the french police, and is now under their protection.. and everyone else is going after the bank.... can I take this from the guardian.... • In Belgium, where HSBC Switzerland is under investigation over tax fraud allegations, a judge is considering issuing international arrest warrants for directors of the Swiss division of the bank. • In Switzerland, senior politicians called for investigations by regulators into the scandal. • In the United States, a leading member of the Senate banking committee asked the US government to explain what action it took after receiving a massive cache of the leaked bank accounts. • In Denmark, the government said it would seek the names of its citizens who may have used Swiss bank accounts to avoid domestic taxes. • In France, which has also launched an investigation, the prime minister, Manuel Valls, said he was determined to fight tax evasion and would continue to take action at home and on a European level. in the UK...... not much..... and the maximum that the bank can be fined is twice the amount of tax that was avoided......" The names are already out there and have been pursued by HMRC since 2010 and resulted in £135 million in taxes being recovered. The CPS have found sufficient evidence to prosecute one person. As always we gaze elsewhere at what others are doing and think that we should be doing the same - or even more. Someone earlier commented in favour of what Iceland did - without (I suspect) knowing what happened to the Icelandic currency (and people) as a consequence. This is not even a new story. This came out around the time of the election and not a year has gone by since without this story reappearing. I am just not sure why it has suddenly become so hysterical. | |||
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"I just find it all interesting that the Swiss are going after trying to get an arrest warrant for the original whistleblower who gave the information to the french police, and is now under their protection.. and everyone else is going after the bank.... can I take this from the guardian.... • In Belgium, where HSBC Switzerland is under investigation over tax fraud allegations, a judge is considering issuing international arrest warrants for directors of the Swiss division of the bank. • In Switzerland, senior politicians called for investigations by regulators into the scandal. • In the United States, a leading member of the Senate banking committee asked the US government to explain what action it took after receiving a massive cache of the leaked bank accounts. • In Denmark, the government said it would seek the names of its citizens who may have used Swiss bank accounts to avoid domestic taxes. • In France, which has also launched an investigation, the prime minister, Manuel Valls, said he was determined to fight tax evasion and would continue to take action at home and on a European level. in the UK...... not much..... and the maximum that the bank can be fined is twice the amount of tax that was avoided...... The names are already out there and have been pursued by HMRC since 2010 and resulted in £135 million in taxes being recovered. The CPS have found sufficient evidence to prosecute one person. As always we gaze elsewhere at what others are doing and think that we should be doing the same - or even more. Someone earlier commented in favour of what Iceland did - without (I suspect) knowing what happened to the Icelandic currency (and people) as a consequence. This is not even a new story. This came out around the time of the election and not a year has gone by since without this story reappearing. I am just not sure why it has suddenly become so hysterical." Come on. The reason it has reappeared and become hysterical is because it is just under 3 months to the election, the Labour party is in the shit, and the BBC and Guardian are desperate to find something they can try to smear the Tory's with. Not rocket science. | |||
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"All works in favour of ukip. Unless people vote for the likes of the green party. I'm with Brand. This system doesn't work. We have the power to change it, no one else will." Taxes from just the financial sector make up 12% of all the tax revenue that is raised in the UK. The problem is very simply that unilateral action taken in this country directed at only this country (or indeed its former territories as suggested by Milliband) will only result in a shift of the problem to somewhere else. This means that you move the benefits as well as the problem somewhere else. The only answer to these kinds of things is a global agreement. We have an issue in Europe of massively varying levels of Corporation Tax in a so called single market. If we cant resolve that problem collectively, there is not much hope of tackling something that is really complicated to deal with. | |||
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"All works in favour of ukip. Unless people vote for the likes of the green party. I'm with Brand. This system doesn't work. We have the power to change it, no one else will. Taxes from just the financial sector make up 12% of all the tax revenue that is raised in the UK. The problem is very simply that unilateral action taken in this country directed at only this country (or indeed its former territories as suggested by Milliband) will only result in a shift of the problem to somewhere else. This means that you move the benefits as well as the problem somewhere else. The only answer to these kinds of things is a global agreement. We have an issue in Europe of massively varying levels of Corporation Tax in a so called single market. If we cant resolve that problem collectively, there is not much hope of tackling something that is really complicated to deal with." . A global agreement on rich people evading tax.... And you think the greens are dreamers!! .
The reason we have varying degrees of corporation tax is because that's exactly how corporations want it.
The entire system is run by them for them.
Make your products in countries with lax health and safety, where you can pollute the place to uninhabitable, sell your shit in rich countries with flash marketing to maximise rrp .
Declare those huge profits in countries you've forced bankrupt and will lower your tax on profits to Scrooge levels, use some of those tax free loop holes to bribe ahem sorry I mean sponsor political fund raising and to pay for'think tanks' to make it seem like it's the guy wanting to retire 5 years earlier from his shit payed 35 year careers fault.
Employ some fancy twat in an office to make you seem like a responsible caring employer .
Hide your massive bonuses and share dividends in Swiss accounts without paying any tax on your personal dosh.
Spend some of that ill gotten gains on political back slapping.
Ohh yeah global agreement... Do me a fucking favour | |||
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"Come on. The reason it has reappeared and become hysterical is because it is just under 3 months to the election, the Labour party is in the shit, and the BBC and Guardian are desperate to find something they can try to smear the Tory's with. Not rocket science. "cynical right wing extremist idiotic nonsense .... as per | |||
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"Which law has been broken again? Oh, I thought so... none. Lot of noise about nothing. I believe if the company concerned is registered in Switzerland (yes, I know HSBC is based in London, but the part of the bank that handles these accounts is based in Switzerland) and has broken no Swiss laws (regardless of if it would be illegal here), then no law broken, and nothing can be done. If anyone has a beef, it should be with the overly complex tax system, as laid down in legislation by the politicians. I'd definitely avoid as much tax as legally possible - after all, it's my money and not the state's. I'm a tax avoider, I use an ISA. If you have one then you're a tax avoider too. It's a legally sanctioned way of avoiding tax. And if I had enough assets I wanted to pass onto my offpsring, and it would be taxed on death through IHT, then I would sign it over into their name well in advance. If you wouldn't do that, you'd be an idiot. Too many people have been blinded over the last many (decades?) into thinking that their money is really the state's, and we should be thankful for what they let us keep (they even call them government give-aways when they 'allow' us to keep some of our own money! Talk about Newspeak a-la 1984!). No, fuck the state, it will get as little tax from me as I can manage legally. One of the biggest whiners about tax avoidance is The Grauniad newspaper, and they're all over this story, as usual. Here's a little fact for you: their parent group, (GMG) has most of it's trusts offshored to minimise tax - apparently that's OK though lol hypocritical socialists - there's a surprise. Here's my definition of a socialist: someone who spends other people's money (see: Labour 'policy' (laughable) on paternity. This is spending either other companies money or our own money through tax to support it. They can't help themselves!). No, you can stick your money-grabbing, gerrymandering socialism up your butt and I'll keep as much of my own money as possible, thanks." . Your welcome. Now get off tax payers roads, trains ,bridges,tunnels. Stop using tax payer funded electric, gas and water. Don't use the NHS, don't ask for your house to be put out while on fire, don't ask for an ambulance if you crash your car, don't phone an embassy abroad if you lose your passport, don't ask for our army to protect you, or our tax paid for legal system to represent you or... Your either very stupid or very selfish or both. Nobody volunteers to pay tax... Even socialists. It's why it's illegal and has nothing to do with personal opinions on what you do with "your" money. Now you can stick your right wing capitalist bollocks up your too tight trousers and leave everyone else to be socially responsible for your inadequacies. | |||
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"Which law has been broken again? Oh, I thought so... none. Lot of noise about nothing. I believe if the company concerned is registered in Switzerland (yes, I know HSBC is based in London, but the part of the bank that handles these accounts is based in Switzerland) and has broken no Swiss laws (regardless of if it would be illegal here), then no law broken, and nothing can be done. If anyone has a beef, it should be with the overly complex tax system, as laid down in legislation by the politicians. I'd definitely avoid as much tax as legally possible - after all, it's my money and not the state's. I'm a tax avoider, I use an ISA. If you have one then you're a tax avoider too. It's a legally sanctioned way of avoiding tax. And if I had enough assets I wanted to pass onto my offpsring, and it would be taxed on death through IHT, then I would sign it over into their name well in advance. If you wouldn't do that, you'd be an idiot. Too many people have been blinded over the last many (decades?) into thinking that their money is really the state's, and we should be thankful for what they let us keep (they even call them government give-aways when they 'allow' us to keep some of our own money! Talk about Newspeak a-la 1984!). No, fuck the state, it will get as little tax from me as I can manage legally. One of the biggest whiners about tax avoidance is The Grauniad newspaper, and they're all over this story, as usual. Here's a little fact for you: their parent group, (GMG) has most of it's trusts offshored to minimise tax - apparently that's OK though lol hypocritical socialists - there's a surprise. Here's my definition of a socialist: someone who spends other people's money (see: Labour 'policy' (laughable) on paternity. This is spending either other companies money or our own money through tax to support it. They can't help themselves!). No, you can stick your money-grabbing, gerrymandering socialism up your butt and I'll keep as much of my own money as possible, thanks.. Your welcome. Now get off tax payers roads, trains ,bridges,tunnels. Stop using tax payer funded electric, gas and water. Don't use the NHS, don't ask for your house to be put out while on fire, don't ask for an ambulance if you crash your car, don't phone an embassy abroad if you lose your passport, don't ask for our army to protect you, or our tax paid for legal system to represent you or... Your either very stupid or very selfish or both. Nobody volunteers to pay tax... Even socialists. It's why it's illegal and has nothing to do with personal opinions on what you do with "your" money. Now you can stick your right wing capitalist bollocks up your too tight trousers and leave everyone else to be socially responsible for your inadequacies. "Oh, I pay plenty of tax. Net contributor by a long way. Very socially responsible too - if only you knew! But the state does not have a right to my money, oh no. And if you think it does, you've been 'ad by 'em. But as usual there's only ad-hominem attacks, nothing about facts. Which displays you know you have no argument. Plus ca change... | |||
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"Which law has been broken again? Oh, I thought so... none. Lot of noise about nothing. I believe if the company concerned is registered in Switzerland (yes, I know HSBC is based in London, but the part of the bank that handles these accounts is based in Switzerland) and has broken no Swiss laws (regardless of if it would be illegal here), then no law broken, and nothing can be done. If anyone has a beef, it should be with the overly complex tax system, as laid down in legislation by the politicians. I'd definitely avoid as much tax as legally possible - after all, it's my money and not the state's. I'm a tax avoider, I use an ISA. If you have one then you're a tax avoider too. It's a legally sanctioned way of avoiding tax. And if I had enough assets I wanted to pass onto my offpsring, and it would be taxed on death through IHT, then I would sign it over into their name well in advance. If you wouldn't do that, you'd be an idiot. Too many people have been blinded over the last many (decades?) into thinking that their money is really the state's, and we should be thankful for what they let us keep (they even call them government give-aways when they 'allow' us to keep some of our own money! Talk about Newspeak a-la 1984!). No, fuck the state, it will get as little tax from me as I can manage legally. One of the biggest whiners about tax avoidance is The Grauniad newspaper, and they're all over this story, as usual. Here's a little fact for you: their parent group, (GMG) has most of it's trusts offshored to minimise tax - apparently that's OK though lol hypocritical socialists - there's a surprise. Here's my definition of a socialist: someone who spends other people's money (see: Labour 'policy' (laughable) on paternity. This is spending either other companies money or our own money through tax to support it. They can't help themselves!). No, you can stick your money-grabbing, gerrymandering socialism up your butt and I'll keep as much of my own money as possible, thanks." I did read an opinion on another website that I thought was quite interesting and kind of aligns with your line of thinking. It was written by a a guy who has lived in Corfu since the 1980's. He said that in the years before Greece fiddled its accounts to get into the Euro the Greek government had to get by on the meagerist of tax takes because everybody was tax evading and just paying an absolute minimum of tax. This left the people with more money in the family pockets and in those days family support was much more meaningful than anything that the government could supply. This meant that the Greek government could only spend money carefully and the population looked after the bigger economy by having more disposable income. This guy went on to say that with the arrival of huge amounts of €Euro funds arriving into the Greek coffers the Greek government took it upon itself to spend without the natural limits that they previously had and this (allegedly) coincided with a deterioration of traditional Greek family values as the State stuck its nose into day to day issues that were once family matters. I dont know if this is a true story or not, but it certainly has an air of truth about it coinsidering the state of the Greek economy at the moment. It also bears some resemblance to the deterioration of family support networks in this country over the last 30 - 40 years as successive governments have taken on the mantel of lead carer or evertyone from cradle to grave. What has happened to our family values? | |||
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"Which law has been broken again? Oh, I thought so... none. Lot of noise about nothing. I believe if the company concerned is registered in Switzerland (yes, I know HSBC is based in London, but the part of the bank that handles these accounts is based in Switzerland) and has broken no Swiss laws (regardless of if it would be illegal here), then no law broken, and nothing can be done. If anyone has a beef, it should be with the overly complex tax system, as laid down in legislation by the politicians. I'd definitely avoid as much tax as legally possible - after all, it's my money and not the state's. I'm a tax avoider, I use an ISA. If you have one then you're a tax avoider too. It's a legally sanctioned way of avoiding tax. And if I had enough assets I wanted to pass onto my offpsring, and it would be taxed on death through IHT, then I would sign it over into their name well in advance. If you wouldn't do that, you'd be an idiot. Too many people have been blinded over the last many (decades?) into thinking that their money is really the state's, and we should be thankful for what they let us keep (they even call them government give-aways when they 'allow' us to keep some of our own money! Talk about Newspeak a-la 1984!). No, fuck the state, it will get as little tax from me as I can manage legally. One of the biggest whiners about tax avoidance is The Grauniad newspaper, and they're all over this story, as usual. Here's a little fact for you: their parent group, (GMG) has most of it's trusts offshored to minimise tax - apparently that's OK though lol hypocritical socialists - there's a surprise. Here's my definition of a socialist: someone who spends other people's money (see: Labour 'policy' (laughable) on paternity. This is spending either other companies money or our own money through tax to support it. They can't help themselves!). No, you can stick your money-grabbing, gerrymandering socialism up your butt and I'll keep as much of my own money as possible, thanks. I did read an opinion on another website that I thought was quite interesting and kind of aligns with your line of thinking. It was written by a a guy who has lived in Corfu since the 1980's. He said that in the years before Greece fiddled its accounts to get into the Euro the Greek government had to get by on the meagerist of tax takes because everybody was tax evading and just paying an absolute minimum of tax. This left the people with more money in the family pockets and in those days family support was much more meaningful than anything that the government could supply. This meant that the Greek government could only spend money carefully and the population looked after the bigger economy by having more disposable income. This guy went on to say that with the arrival of huge amounts of €Euro funds arriving into the Greek coffers the Greek government took it upon itself to spend without the natural limits that they previously had and this (allegedly) coincided with a deterioration of traditional Greek family values as the State stuck its nose into day to day issues that were once family matters. I dont know if this is a true story or not, but it certainly has an air of truth about it coinsidering the state of the Greek economy at the moment. It also bears some resemblance to the deterioration of family support networks in this country over the last 30 - 40 years as successive governments have taken on the mantel of lead carer or evertyone from cradle to grave. What has happened to our family values? " Quite right - I read a story in a paper today (no, not a right-wing one, a local paper) where some twit was complaining that they were having to help out their kids buy a house, the quote from them was "we're having to do this cos they have a family and the government isn't standing up to it's duty to look after them"! I mean, FFS - haven't people got a duty to not breed if they cant' afford to? No, there's a small bit of a pence of my tax... and yours.. and yours... to let them live the dream. What about that bit of money being left with me to spend on what *I* want to spend it on, rather than on them when they choose to have kids? It's all totally wrong. | |||
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"But the state does not have a right to my money, oh no.." despite your day dreaming the facts are .... it does | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Which law has been broken again? Oh, I thought so... none. Lot of noise about nothing. I believe if the company concerned is registered in Switzerland (yes, I know HSBC is based in London, but the part of the bank that handles these accounts is based in Switzerland) and has broken no Swiss laws (regardless of if it would be illegal here), then no law broken, and nothing can be done. If anyone has a beef, it should be with the overly complex tax system, as laid down in legislation by the politicians. I'd definitely avoid as much tax as legally possible - after all, it's my money and not the state's. I'm a tax avoider, I use an ISA. If you have one then you're a tax avoider too. It's a legally sanctioned way of avoiding tax. And if I had enough assets I wanted to pass onto my offpsring, and it would be taxed on death through IHT, then I would sign it over into their name well in advance. If you wouldn't do that, you'd be an idiot. Too many people have been blinded over the last many (decades?) into thinking that their money is really the state's, and we should be thankful for what they let us keep (they even call them government give-aways when they 'allow' us to keep some of our own money! Talk about Newspeak a-la 1984!). No, fuck the state, it will get as little tax from me as I can manage legally. One of the biggest whiners about tax avoidance is The Grauniad newspaper, and they're all over this story, as usual. Here's a little fact for you: their parent group, (GMG) has most of it's trusts offshored to minimise tax - apparently that's OK though lol hypocritical socialists - there's a surprise. Here's my definition of a socialist: someone who spends other people's money (see: Labour 'policy' (laughable) on paternity. This is spending either other companies money or our own money through tax to support it. They can't help themselves!). No, you can stick your money-grabbing, gerrymandering socialism up your butt and I'll keep as much of my own money as possible, thanks. I did read an opinion on another website that I thought was quite interesting and kind of aligns with your line of thinking. It was written by a a guy who has lived in Corfu since the 1980's. He said that in the years before Greece fiddled its accounts to get into the Euro the Greek government had to get by on the meagerist of tax takes because everybody was tax evading and just paying an absolute minimum of tax. This left the people with more money in the family pockets and in those days family support was much more meaningful than anything that the government could supply. This meant that the Greek government could only spend money carefully and the population looked after the bigger economy by having more disposable income. This guy went on to say that with the arrival of huge amounts of €Euro funds arriving into the Greek coffers the Greek government took it upon itself to spend without the natural limits that they previously had and this (allegedly) coincided with a deterioration of traditional Greek family values as the State stuck its nose into day to day issues that were once family matters. I dont know if this is a true story or not, but it certainly has an air of truth about it coinsidering the state of the Greek economy at the moment. It also bears some resemblance to the deterioration of family support networks in this country over the last 30 - 40 years as successive governments have taken on the mantel of lead carer or evertyone from cradle to grave. What has happened to our family values? Quite right - I read a story in a paper today (no, not a right-wing one, a local paper) where some twit was complaining that they were having to help out their kids buy a house, the quote from them was "we're having to do this cos they have a family and the government isn't standing up to it's duty to look after them"! I mean, FFS - haven't people got a duty to not breed if they cant' afford to? No, there's a small bit of a pence of my tax... and yours.. and yours... to let them live the dream. What about that bit of money being left with me to spend on what *I* want to spend it on, rather than on them when they choose to have kids? It's all totally wrong." . Let them live the dream lol. good God what goes on in your head for rational thought. Like anyone dreams of an exuberant lifestyle on a council estate!. | |||
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"I take it you don't have an ISA then?" . Wow an isa... So you can dodge the tax on interest on 4 grand a year!. Apart from the fact that isa,s are actually legal, I really don't see your point about illegal tax evasion on a massive scale that's been organised and colluded on by international organisations (no better than any Mafia) and legally sanctioned small amounts that 100% of the population are free to benefit from. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I take it you don't have an ISA then?. Wow an isa... So you can dodge the tax on interest on 4 grand a year!. Apart from the fact that isa,s are actually legal, I really don't see your point about illegal tax evasion on a massive scale that's been organised and colluded on by international organisations (no better than any Mafia) and legally sanctioned small amounts that 100% of the population are free to benefit from." That's right. And tax avoidance is legal. Tax evasion is not. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Which law has been broken again? Oh, I thought so... none. Lot of noise about nothing. I believe if the company concerned is registered in Switzerland (yes, I know HSBC is based in London, but the part of the bank that handles these accounts is based in Switzerland) and has broken no Swiss laws (regardless of if it would be illegal here), then no law broken, and nothing can be done. If anyone has a beef, it should be with the overly complex tax system, as laid down in legislation by the politicians. I'd definitely avoid as much tax as legally possible - after all, it's my money and not the state's. I'm a tax avoider, I use an ISA. If you have one then you're a tax avoider too. It's a legally sanctioned way of avoiding tax. And if I had enough assets I wanted to pass onto my offpsring, and it would be taxed on death through IHT, then I would sign it over into their name well in advance. If you wouldn't do that, you'd be an idiot. Too many people have been blinded over the last many (decades?) into thinking that their money is really the state's, and we should be thankful for what they let us keep (they even call them government give-aways when they 'allow' us to keep some of our own money! Talk about Newspeak a-la 1984!). No, fuck the state, it will get as little tax from me as I can manage legally. One of the biggest whiners about tax avoidance is The Grauniad newspaper, and they're all over this story, as usual. Here's a little fact for you: their parent group, (GMG) has most of it's trusts offshored to minimise tax - apparently that's OK though lol hypocritical socialists - there's a surprise. Here's my definition of a socialist: someone who spends other people's money (see: Labour 'policy' (laughable) on paternity. This is spending either other companies money or our own money through tax to support it. They can't help themselves!). No, you can stick your money-grabbing, gerrymandering socialism up your butt and I'll keep as much of my own money as possible, thanks.. Your welcome. Now get off tax payers roads, trains ,bridges,tunnels. Stop using tax payer funded electric, gas and water. Don't use the NHS, don't ask for your house to be put out while on fire, don't ask for an ambulance if you crash your car, don't phone an embassy abroad if you lose your passport, don't ask for our army to protect you, or our tax paid for legal system to represent you or... Your either very stupid or very selfish or both. Nobody volunteers to pay tax... Even socialists. It's why it's illegal and has nothing to do with personal opinions on what you do with "your" money. Now you can stick your right wing capitalist bollocks up your too tight trousers and leave everyone else to be socially responsible for your inadequacies. "Maybe we should clarify . The poster said he pays all taxes that are due and where relevant would use legitimate tax reliefs to reduce his tax liability which are available to all individuals . How can carefull tax planning and paying all taxes that are due be considered to be selfish..? | |||
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"Which law has been broken again? Oh, I thought so... none. Lot of noise about nothing. I believe if the company concerned is registered in Switzerland (yes, I know HSBC is based in London, but the part of the bank that handles these accounts is based in Switzerland) and has broken no Swiss laws (regardless of if it would be illegal here), then no law broken, and nothing can be done. If anyone has a beef, it should be with the overly complex tax system, as laid down in legislation by the politicians. I'd definitely avoid as much tax as legally possible - after all, it's my money and not the state's. I'm a tax avoider, I use an ISA. If you have one then you're a tax avoider too. It's a legally sanctioned way of avoiding tax. And if I had enough assets I wanted to pass onto my offpsring, and it would be taxed on death through IHT, then I would sign it over into their name well in advance. If you wouldn't do that, you'd be an idiot. Too many people have been blinded over the last many (decades?) into thinking that their money is really the state's, and we should be thankful for what they let us keep (they even call them government give-aways when they 'allow' us to keep some of our own money! Talk about Newspeak a-la 1984!). No, fuck the state, it will get as little tax from me as I can manage legally. One of the biggest whiners about tax avoidance is The Grauniad newspaper, and they're all over this story, as usual. Here's a little fact for you: their parent group, (GMG) has most of it's trusts offshored to minimise tax - apparently that's OK though lol hypocritical socialists - there's a surprise. Here's my definition of a socialist: someone who spends other people's money (see: Labour 'policy' (laughable) on paternity. This is spending either other companies money or our own money through tax to support it. They can't help themselves!). No, you can stick your money-grabbing, gerrymandering socialism up your butt and I'll keep as much of my own money as possible, thanks.. Your welcome. Now get off tax payers roads, trains ,bridges,tunnels. Stop using tax payer funded electric, gas and water. Don't use the NHS, don't ask for your house to be put out while on fire, don't ask for an ambulance if you crash your car, don't phone an embassy abroad if you lose your passport, don't ask for our army to protect you, or our tax paid for legal system to represent you or... Your either very stupid or very selfish or both. Nobody volunteers to pay tax... Even socialists. It's why it's illegal and has nothing to do with personal opinions on what you do with "your" money. Now you can stick your right wing capitalist bollocks up your too tight trousers and leave everyone else to be socially responsible for your inadequacies. Maybe we should clarify . The poster said he pays all taxes that are due and where relevant would use legitimate tax reliefs to reduce his tax liability which are available to all individuals . How can carefull tax planning and paying all taxes that are due be considered to be selfish..?"Mate, the people with those views will be either employed directly or indirectly by the state, or be net recipients of state money. Their votes - and minds - have been bought by the statists. To be fair to them, they are only trying to do what I am, and that is protect themselves and their own - except with little thought or understanding of where their mindset leads to (see: Venezuela (cue bullshit about American sanctions *causing* Venezuela's problems)) The Venezuelans are doing a grand job with equality: NOBODY can buy toilet paper there, rich or poor! | |||
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"Which law has been broken again? Oh, I thought so... none. Lot of noise about nothing. I believe if the company concerned is registered in Switzerland (yes, I know HSBC is based in London, but the part of the bank that handles these accounts is based in Switzerland) and has broken no Swiss laws (regardless of if it would be illegal here), then no law broken, and nothing can be done. If anyone has a beef, it should be with the overly complex tax system, as laid down in legislation by the politicians. I'd definitely avoid as much tax as legally possible - after all, it's my money and not the state's. I'm a tax avoider, I use an ISA. If you have one then you're a tax avoider too. It's a legally sanctioned way of avoiding tax. And if I had enough assets I wanted to pass onto my offpsring, and it would be taxed on death through IHT, then I would sign it over into their name well in advance. If you wouldn't do that, you'd be an idiot. Too many people have been blinded over the last many (decades?) into thinking that their money is really the state's, and we should be thankful for what they let us keep (they even call them government give-aways when they 'allow' us to keep some of our own money! Talk about Newspeak a-la 1984!). No, fuck the state, it will get as little tax from me as I can manage legally. One of the biggest whiners about tax avoidance is The Grauniad newspaper, and they're all over this story, as usual. Here's a little fact for you: their parent group, (GMG) has most of it's trusts offshored to minimise tax - apparently that's OK though lol hypocritical socialists - there's a surprise. Here's my definition of a socialist: someone who spends other people's money (see: Labour 'policy' (laughable) on paternity. This is spending either other companies money or our own money through tax to support it. They can't help themselves!). No, you can stick your money-grabbing, gerrymandering socialism up your butt and I'll keep as much of my own money as possible, thanks.. Your welcome. Now get off tax payers roads, trains ,bridges,tunnels. Stop using tax payer funded electric, gas and water. Don't use the NHS, don't ask for your house to be put out while on fire, don't ask for an ambulance if you crash your car, don't phone an embassy abroad if you lose your passport, don't ask for our army to protect you, or our tax paid for legal system to represent you or... Your either very stupid or very selfish or both. Nobody volunteers to pay tax... Even socialists. It's why it's illegal and has nothing to do with personal opinions on what you do with "your" money. Now you can stick your right wing capitalist bollocks up your too tight trousers and leave everyone else to be socially responsible for your inadequacies. Maybe we should clarify . The poster said he pays all taxes that are due and where relevant would use legitimate tax reliefs to reduce his tax liability which are available to all individuals . How can carefull tax planning and paying all taxes that are due be considered to be selfish..?". Because it's a selfish idea to want a society but not pay for it. Society gets along quite well and runs reasonably smooth while people pay for it. If you take away from people the "group" protection that society gives them, we will in a very short time descend into the abyss. | |||
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" Now you can stick your right wing capitalist bollocks up your too tight trousers and leave everyone else to be socially responsible for your inadequacies. Maybe we should clarify . The poster said he pays all taxes that are due and where relevant would use legitimate tax reliefs to reduce his tax liability which are available to all individuals . How can carefull tax planning and paying all taxes that are due be considered to be selfish..?.
Because it's a selfish idea to want a society but not pay for it.
Society gets along quite well and runs reasonably smooth while people pay for it.
If you take away from people the "group" protection that society gives them, we will in a very short time descend into the abyss."You clearly not reading, or deliberately misrepresenting (I wonder why?) what I am saying: I pay tax. I believe I should pay tax. But I should not pay for people's pet projects or if somebody decides to have babies (for example). Bare minimum only for the basic structures that state should provide, and support for those unfortunate. NO problem with that. Here's a 100% true story. Ex-housemate of mine had a friend who had never worked. Was on benefits. Not his fault, he had a terrible accident. He get's benefits. Good. However, he seems to have plenty of money to party. I've seen it with my own eyes. One day I was very miserable because I was skint. He offered to go out and buy drinks and food so we could "eat drink and be merry". How could it be that somebody who was on benefits can afford this (yes, it was a kind gesture), and yet I when working could not? He went and got some food and drink. Tried to make me have some and I politely said "Thanks but no". You know what he said next? "Go on, you should. It's your money that's paying for it, so you should enjoy it". Again, no problem with him having benefit - however something's wrong here. Direct question - do you agree with my ex-housmate's friend?. Should I have graciously accepted his kind offer - because it was my money paying for it anyway? Or should I feel a bit - just a little aggrieved? A straight answer would suffice, rather than a personal attack. | |||
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"Which law has been broken again? Oh, I thought so... none. Lot of noise about nothing. I believe if the company concerned is registered in Switzerland (yes, I know HSBC is based in London, but the part of the bank that handles these accounts is based in Switzerland) and has broken no Swiss laws (regardless of if it would be illegal here), then no law broken, and nothing can be done. If anyone has a beef, it should be with the overly complex tax system, as laid down in legislation by the politicians. I'd definitely avoid as much tax as legally possible - after all, it's my money and not the state's. I'm a tax avoider, I use an ISA. If you have one then you're a tax avoider too. It's a legally sanctioned way of avoiding tax. And if I had enough assets I wanted to pass onto my offpsring, and it would be taxed on death through IHT, then I would sign it over into their name well in advance. If you wouldn't do that, you'd be an idiot. Too many people have been blinded over the last many (decades?) into thinking that their money is really the state's, and we should be thankful for what they let us keep (they even call them government give-aways when they 'allow' us to keep some of our own money! Talk about Newspeak a-la 1984!). No, fuck the state, it will get as little tax from me as I can manage legally. One of the biggest whiners about tax avoidance is The Grauniad newspaper, and they're all over this story, as usual. Here's a little fact for you: their parent group, (GMG) has most of it's trusts offshored to minimise tax - apparently that's OK though lol hypocritical socialists - there's a surprise. Here's my definition of a socialist: someone who spends other people's money (see: Labour 'policy' (laughable) on paternity. This is spending either other companies money or our own money through tax to support it. They can't help themselves!). No, you can stick your money-grabbing, gerrymandering socialism up your butt and I'll keep as much of my own money as possible, thanks.. Your welcome. Now get off tax payers roads, trains ,bridges,tunnels. Stop using tax payer funded electric, gas and water. Don't use the NHS, don't ask for your house to be put out while on fire, don't ask for an ambulance if you crash your car, don't phone an embassy abroad if you lose your passport, don't ask for our army to protect you, or our tax paid for legal system to represent you or... Your either very stupid or very selfish or both. Nobody volunteers to pay tax... Even socialists. It's why it's illegal and has nothing to do with personal opinions on what you do with "your" money. Now you can stick your right wing capitalist bollocks up your too tight trousers and leave everyone else to be socially responsible for your inadequacies. Maybe we should clarify . The poster said he pays all taxes that are due and where relevant would use legitimate tax reliefs to reduce his tax liability which are available to all individuals . How can carefull tax planning and paying all taxes that are due be considered to be selfish..?.
Because it's a selfish idea to want a society but not pay for it.
Society gets along quite well and runs reasonably smooth while people pay for it.
If you take away from people the "group" protection that society gives them, we will in a very short time descend into the abyss.". I am getting totally confused now . Everyone is compelled to pay tax if they are earning in excess of a certain limits . Assuming you have paid all taxes due , any responsible person would take steps to use the legitimate reliefs to minimise their liability or are you referring to for example families with loads of children where no one works and expects the government to pick up the tab. Their contribution is nil. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Which law has been broken again? Oh, I thought so... none. Lot of noise about nothing. I believe if the company concerned is registered in Switzerland (yes, I know HSBC is based in London, but the part of the bank that handles these accounts is based in Switzerland) and has broken no Swiss laws (regardless of if it would be illegal here), then no law broken, and nothing can be done. If anyone has a beef, it should be with the overly complex tax system, as laid down in legislation by the politicians. I'd definitely avoid as much tax as legally possible - after all, it's my money and not the state's. I'm a tax avoider, I use an ISA. If you have one then you're a tax avoider too. It's a legally sanctioned way of avoiding tax. And if I had enough assets I wanted to pass onto my offpsring, and it would be taxed on death through IHT, then I would sign it over into their name well in advance. If you wouldn't do that, you'd be an idiot. Too many people have been blinded over the last many (decades?) into thinking that their money is really the state's, and we should be thankful for what they let us keep (they even call them government give-aways when they 'allow' us to keep some of our own money! Talk about Newspeak a-la 1984!). No, fuck the state, it will get as little tax from me as I can manage legally. One of the biggest whiners about tax avoidance is The Grauniad newspaper, and they're all over this story, as usual. Here's a little fact for you: their parent group, (GMG) has most of it's trusts offshored to minimise tax - apparently that's OK though lol hypocritical socialists - there's a surprise. Here's my definition of a socialist: someone who spends other people's money (see: Labour 'policy' (laughable) on paternity. This is spending either other companies money or our own money through tax to support it. They can't help themselves!). No, you can stick your money-grabbing, gerrymandering socialism up your butt and I'll keep as much of my own money as possible, thanks.. Your welcome. Now get off tax payers roads, trains ,bridges,tunnels. Stop using tax payer funded electric, gas and water. Don't use the NHS, don't ask for your house to be put out while on fire, don't ask for an ambulance if you crash your car, don't phone an embassy abroad if you lose your passport, don't ask for our army to protect you, or our tax paid for legal system to represent you or... Your either very stupid or very selfish or both. Nobody volunteers to pay tax... Even socialists. It's why it's illegal and has nothing to do with personal opinions on what you do with "your" money. Now you can stick your right wing capitalist bollocks up your too tight trousers and leave everyone else to be socially responsible for your inadequacies. Maybe we should clarify . The poster said he pays all taxes that are due and where relevant would use legitimate tax reliefs to reduce his tax liability which are available to all individuals . How can carefull tax planning and paying all taxes that are due be considered to be selfish..?
Mate, the people with those views will be either employed directly or indirectly by the state, or be net recipients of state money.
Their votes - and minds - have been bought by the statists.
To be fair to them, they are only trying to do what I am, and that is protect themselves and their own - except with little thought or understanding of where their mindset leads to (see: Venezuela (cue bullshit about American sanctions *causing* Venezuela's problems))
The Venezuelans are doing a grand job with equality: NOBODY can buy toilet paper there, rich or poor!". I hate to point this out to you but..... I'm advocating paying taxes to help others and make a better society, that's not exactly looking after myself is it! But quite frankly that's bollocks and I don't even believe it myself I'm not even a socialist.. I'm a fucking Marxist bordering on anarchist. Now I could take your right wing clap trap all day, but the facts are it's fucking nonsense. You lot keep taking about Tories and labour like it's something different, you bang on about socialists ruining the country... Wtf the last socialist voted in was 1975... Who's been ruining the country for the last 40 years then. Was it a socialist who deregulated the banks... No that was Margret Thatcher... Was it a socialist who signed the open door policy.... No that was Margret Thatcher.... Was it a socialist who invaded Iraq.. I hate to tell you this but Tony Blair wasn't and never will be a socialist neither is the labour party.... Tony Blair is the biggest bum boy( no offence) capitalist we've had in power since Margret Thatcher. If you think there's any remote similarity between che guevara and anyone from the labour party you really are an idiot. | |||
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" Now you can stick your right wing capitalist bollocks up your too tight trousers and leave everyone else to be socially responsible for your inadequacies. Maybe we should clarify . The poster said he pays all taxes that are due and where relevant would use legitimate tax reliefs to reduce his tax liability which are available to all individuals . How can carefull tax planning and paying all taxes that are due be considered to be selfish..?.
Because it's a selfish idea to want a society but not pay for it.
Society gets along quite well and runs reasonably smooth while people pay for it.
If you take away from people the "group" protection that society gives them, we will in a very short time descend into the abyss.
You clearly not reading, or deliberately misrepresenting (I wonder why?) what I am saying:
I pay tax. I believe I should pay tax. But I should not pay for people's pet projects or if somebody decides to have babies (for example). Bare minimum only for the basic structures that state should provide, and support for those unfortunate. NO problem with that.
Here's a 100% true story. Ex-housemate of mine had a friend who had never worked. Was on benefits. Not his fault, he had a terrible accident. He get's benefits. Good. However, he seems to have plenty of money to party. I've seen it with my own eyes. One day I was very miserable because I was skint. He offered to go out and buy drinks and food so we could "eat drink and be merry".
How could it be that somebody who was on benefits can afford this (yes, it was a kind gesture), and yet I when working could not?
He went and got some food and drink. Tried to make me have some and I politely said "Thanks but no".
You know what he said next?
"Go on, you should. It's your money that's paying for it, so you should enjoy it".
Again, no problem with him having benefit - however something's wrong here.
Direct question - do you agree with my ex-housmate's friend?. Should I have graciously accepted his kind offer - because it was my money paying for it anyway?
Or should I feel a bit - just a little aggrieved?
A straight answer would suffice, rather than a personal attack.". Here's a straight answer. Your entire concept of how you think the world works is bollocks and sometime very soon it's going to bite you on your ass. | |||
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"Which law has been broken again? Oh, I thought so... none. Lot of noise about nothing. I believe if the company concerned is registered in Switzerland (yes, I know HSBC is based in London, but the part of the bank that handles these accounts is based in Switzerland) and has broken no Swiss laws (regardless of if it would be illegal here), then no law broken, and nothing can be done. If anyone has a beef, it should be with the overly complex tax system, as laid down in legislation by the politicians. I'd definitely avoid as much tax as legally possible - after all, it's my money and not the state's. I'm a tax avoider, I use an ISA. If you have one then you're a tax avoider too. It's a legally sanctioned way of avoiding tax. And if I had enough assets I wanted to pass onto my offpsring, and it would be taxed on death through IHT, then I would sign it over into their name well in advance. If you wouldn't do that, you'd be an idiot. Too many people have been blinded over the last many (decades?) into thinking that their money is really the state's, and we should be thankful for what they let us keep (they even call them government give-aways when they 'allow' us to keep some of our own money! Talk about Newspeak a-la 1984!). No, fuck the state, it will get as little tax from me as I can manage legally. One of the biggest whiners about tax avoidance is The Grauniad newspaper, and they're all over this story, as usual. Here's a little fact for you: their parent group, (GMG) has most of it's trusts offshored to minimise tax - apparently that's OK though lol hypocritical socialists - there's a surprise. Here's my definition of a socialist: someone who spends other people's money (see: Labour 'policy' (laughable) on paternity. This is spending either other companies money or our own money through tax to support it. They can't help themselves!). No, you can stick your money-grabbing, gerrymandering socialism up your butt and I'll keep as much of my own money as possible, thanks.. Your welcome. Now get off tax payers roads, trains ,bridges,tunnels. Stop using tax payer funded electric, gas and water. Don't use the NHS, don't ask for your house to be put out while on fire, don't ask for an ambulance if you crash your car, don't phone an embassy abroad if you lose your passport, don't ask for our army to protect you, or our tax paid for legal system to represent you or... Your either very stupid or very selfish or both. Nobody volunteers to pay tax... Even socialists. It's why it's illegal and has nothing to do with personal opinions on what you do with "your" money. Now you can stick your right wing capitalist bollocks up your too tight trousers and leave everyone else to be socially responsible for your inadequacies. Maybe we should clarify . The poster said he pays all taxes that are due and where relevant would use legitimate tax reliefs to reduce his tax liability which are available to all individuals . How can carefull tax planning and paying all taxes that are due be considered to be selfish..?
Mate, the people with those views will be either employed directly or indirectly by the state, or be net recipients of state money.
Their votes - and minds - have been bought by the statists.
To be fair to them, they are only trying to do what I am, and that is protect themselves and their own - except with little thought or understanding of where their mindset leads to (see: Venezuela (cue bullshit about American sanctions *causing* Venezuela's problems))
The Venezuelans are doing a grand job with equality: NOBODY can buy toilet paper there, rich or poor!.
I hate to point this out to you but..... I'm advocating paying taxes to help others and make a better society, that's not exactly looking after myself is it! But quite frankly that's bollocks and I don't even believe it myself
I'm not even a socialist.. I'm a fucking Marxist bordering on anarchist.
Now I could take your right wing clap trap all day, but the facts are it's fucking nonsense.
You lot keep taking about Tories and labour like it's something different, you bang on about socialists ruining the country... Wtf the last socialist voted in was 1975... Who's been ruining the country for the last 40 years then.
Was it a socialist who deregulated the banks... No that was Margret Thatcher... Was it a socialist who signed the open door policy.... No that was Margret Thatcher.... Was it a socialist who invaded Iraq.. I hate to tell you this but Tony Blair wasn't and never will be a socialist neither is the labour party.... Tony Blair is the biggest bum boy( no offence) capitalist we've had in power since Margret Thatcher.
If you think there's any remote similarity between che guevara and anyone from the labour party you really are an idiot."I note you didn't answer my questions. And you have to resort to ad-hominem attacks again. I think you know you don't have a leg to stand on. Go on, humour me: you work either directly, or indirectly with money from the state, don't you? Or you a re a net recipient of money from the state. Be honest./ | |||
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"Which law has been broken again? Oh, I thought so... none. Lot of noise about nothing. I believe if the company concerned is registered in Switzerland (yes, I know HSBC is based in London, but the part of the bank that handles these accounts is based in Switzerland) and has broken no Swiss laws (regardless of if it would be illegal here), then no law broken, and nothing can be done. If anyone has a beef, it should be with the overly complex tax system, as laid down in legislation by the politicians. I'd definitely avoid as much tax as legally possible - after all, it's my money and not the state's. I'm a tax avoider, I use an ISA. If you have one then you're a tax avoider too. It's a legally sanctioned way of avoiding tax. And if I had enough assets I wanted to pass onto my offpsring, and it would be taxed on death through IHT, then I would sign it over into their name well in advance. If you wouldn't do that, you'd be an idiot. Too many people have been blinded over the last many (decades?) into thinking that their money is really the state's, and we should be thankful for what they let us keep (they even call them government give-aways when they 'allow' us to keep some of our own money! Talk about Newspeak a-la 1984!). No, fuck the state, it will get as little tax from me as I can manage legally. One of the biggest whiners about tax avoidance is The Grauniad newspaper, and they're all over this story, as usual. Here's a little fact for you: their parent group, (GMG) has most of it's trusts offshored to minimise tax - apparently that's OK though lol hypocritical socialists - there's a surprise. Here's my definition of a socialist: someone who spends other people's money (see: Labour 'policy' (laughable) on paternity. This is spending either other companies money or our own money through tax to support it. They can't help themselves!). No, you can stick your money-grabbing, gerrymandering socialism up your butt and I'll keep as much of my own money as possible, thanks.. Your welcome. Now get off tax payers roads, trains ,bridges,tunnels. Stop using tax payer funded electric, gas and water. Don't use the NHS, don't ask for your house to be put out while on fire, don't ask for an ambulance if you crash your car, don't phone an embassy abroad if you lose your passport, don't ask for our army to protect you, or our tax paid for legal system to represent you or... Your either very stupid or very selfish or both. Nobody volunteers to pay tax... Even socialists. It's why it's illegal and has nothing to do with personal opinions on what you do with "your" money. Now you can stick your right wing capitalist bollocks up your too tight trousers and leave everyone else to be socially responsible for your inadequacies. Maybe we should clarify . The poster said he pays all taxes that are due and where relevant would use legitimate tax reliefs to reduce his tax liability which are available to all individuals . How can carefull tax planning and paying all taxes that are due be considered to be selfish..?.
Because it's a selfish idea to want a society but not pay for it.
Society gets along quite well and runs reasonably smooth while people pay for it.
If you take away from people the "group" protection that society gives them, we will in a very short time descend into the abyss.. I am getting totally confused now . Everyone is compelled to pay tax if they are earning in excess of a certain limits . Assuming you have paid all taxes due , any responsible person would take steps to use the legitimate reliefs to minimise their liability or are you referring to for example families with loads of children where no one works and expects the government to pick up the tab. Their contribution is nil. ". Think of them as spending excess wealth that the middle classes would hoard otherwise!. Or a warning to the lower classes that this is what happens if you buck the system. I didn't put the system in place, people with power and wealth put it in place so your question should be, why did they do what they did!... Don't tell me.. You think rich people and government leaders are just trying their best for the poor?. | |||
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"Which law has been broken again? Oh, I thought so... none. Lot of noise about nothing. I believe if the company concerned is registered in Switzerland (yes, I know HSBC is based in London, but the part of the bank that handles these accounts is based in Switzerland) and has broken no Swiss laws (regardless of if it would be illegal here), then no law broken, and nothing can be done. If anyone has a beef, it should be with the overly complex tax system, as laid down in legislation by the politicians. I'd definitely avoid as much tax as legally possible - after all, it's my money and not the state's. I'm a tax avoider, I use an ISA. If you have one then you're a tax avoider too. It's a legally sanctioned way of avoiding tax. And if I had enough assets I wanted to pass onto my offpsring, and it would be taxed on death through IHT, then I would sign it over into their name well in advance. If you wouldn't do that, you'd be an idiot. Too many people have been blinded over the last many (decades?) into thinking that their money is really the state's, and we should be thankful for what they let us keep (they even call them government give-aways when they 'allow' us to keep some of our own money! Talk about Newspeak a-la 1984!). No, fuck the state, it will get as little tax from me as I can manage legally. One of the biggest whiners about tax avoidance is The Grauniad newspaper, and they're all over this story, as usual. Here's a little fact for you: their parent group, (GMG) has most of it's trusts offshored to minimise tax - apparently that's OK though lol hypocritical socialists - there's a surprise. Here's my definition of a socialist: someone who spends other people's money (see: Labour 'policy' (laughable) on paternity. This is spending either other companies money or our own money through tax to support it. They can't help themselves!). No, you can stick your money-grabbing, gerrymandering socialism up your butt and I'll keep as much of my own money as possible, thanks.. Your welcome. Now get off tax payers roads, trains ,bridges,tunnels. Stop using tax payer funded electric, gas and water. Don't use the NHS, don't ask for your house to be put out while on fire, don't ask for an ambulance if you crash your car, don't phone an embassy abroad if you lose your passport, don't ask for our army to protect you, or our tax paid for legal system to represent you or... Your either very stupid or very selfish or both. Nobody volunteers to pay tax... Even socialists. It's why it's illegal and has nothing to do with personal opinions on what you do with "your" money. Now you can stick your right wing capitalist bollocks up your too tight trousers and leave everyone else to be socially responsible for your inadequacies. Maybe we should clarify . The poster said he pays all taxes that are due and where relevant would use legitimate tax reliefs to reduce his tax liability which are available to all individuals . How can carefull tax planning and paying all taxes that are due be considered to be selfish..?.
Because it's a selfish idea to want a society but not pay for it.
Society gets along quite well and runs reasonably smooth while people pay for it.
If you take away from people the "group" protection that society gives them, we will in a very short time descend into the abyss.. I am getting totally confused now . Everyone is compelled to pay tax if they are earning in excess of a certain limits . Assuming you have paid all taxes due , any responsible person would take steps to use the legitimate reliefs to minimise their liability or are you referring to for example families with loads of children where no one works and expects the government to pick up the tab. Their contribution is nil. .
Think of them as spending excess wealth that the middle classes would hoard otherwise!.
Or a warning to the lower classes that this is what happens if you buck the system.
I didn't put the system in place, people with power and wealth put it in place so your question should be, why did they do what they did!... Don't tell me.. You think rich people and government leaders are just trying their best for the poor?."I'll answer one of your questions directly if you answer one of mine directly... Bet you won't | |||
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"Which law has been broken again? Oh, I thought so... none. Lot of noise about nothing. I believe if the company concerned is registered in Switzerland (yes, I know HSBC is based in London, but the part of the bank that handles these accounts is based in Switzerland) and has broken no Swiss laws (regardless of if it would be illegal here), then no law broken, and nothing can be done. If anyone has a beef, it should be with the overly complex tax system, as laid down in legislation by the politicians. I'd definitely avoid as much tax as legally possible - after all, it's my money and not the state's. I'm a tax avoider, I use an ISA. If you have one then you're a tax avoider too. It's a legally sanctioned way of avoiding tax. And if I had enough assets I wanted to pass onto my offpsring, and it would be taxed on death through IHT, then I would sign it over into their name well in advance. If you wouldn't do that, you'd be an idiot. Too many people have been blinded over the last many (decades?) into thinking that their money is really the state's, and we should be thankful for what they let us keep (they even call them government give-aways when they 'allow' us to keep some of our own money! Talk about Newspeak a-la 1984!). No, fuck the state, it will get as little tax from me as I can manage legally. One of the biggest whiners about tax avoidance is The Grauniad newspaper, and they're all over this story, as usual. Here's a little fact for you: their parent group, (GMG) has most of it's trusts offshored to minimise tax - apparently that's OK though lol hypocritical socialists - there's a surprise. Here's my definition of a socialist: someone who spends other people's money (see: Labour 'policy' (laughable) on paternity. This is spending either other companies money or our own money through tax to support it. They can't help themselves!). No, you can stick your money-grabbing, gerrymandering socialism up your butt and I'll keep as much of my own money as possible, thanks.. Your welcome. Now get off tax payers roads, trains ,bridges,tunnels. Stop using tax payer funded electric, gas and water. Don't use the NHS, don't ask for your house to be put out while on fire, don't ask for an ambulance if you crash your car, don't phone an embassy abroad if you lose your passport, don't ask for our army to protect you, or our tax paid for legal system to represent you or... Your either very stupid or very selfish or both. Nobody volunteers to pay tax... Even socialists. It's why it's illegal and has nothing to do with personal opinions on what you do with "your" money. Now you can stick your right wing capitalist bollocks up your too tight trousers and leave everyone else to be socially responsible for your inadequacies. Maybe we should clarify . The poster said he pays all taxes that are due and where relevant would use legitimate tax reliefs to reduce his tax liability which are available to all individuals . How can carefull tax planning and paying all taxes that are due be considered to be selfish..?
Mate, the people with those views will be either employed directly or indirectly by the state, or be net recipients of state money.
Their votes - and minds - have been bought by the statists.
To be fair to them, they are only trying to do what I am, and that is protect themselves and their own - except with little thought or understanding of where their mindset leads to (see: Venezuela (cue bullshit about American sanctions *causing* Venezuela's problems))
The Venezuelans are doing a grand job with equality: NOBODY can buy toilet paper there, rich or poor!.
I hate to point this out to you but..... I'm advocating paying taxes to help others and make a better society, that's not exactly looking after myself is it! But quite frankly that's bollocks and I don't even believe it myself
I'm not even a socialist.. I'm a fucking Marxist bordering on anarchist.
Now I could take your right wing clap trap all day, but the facts are it's fucking nonsense.
You lot keep taking about Tories and labour like it's something different, you bang on about socialists ruining the country... Wtf the last socialist voted in was 1975... Who's been ruining the country for the last 40 years then.
Was it a socialist who deregulated the banks... No that was Margret Thatcher... Was it a socialist who signed the open door policy.... No that was Margret Thatcher.... Was it a socialist who invaded Iraq.. I hate to tell you this but Tony Blair wasn't and never will be a socialist neither is the labour party.... Tony Blair is the biggest bum boy( no offence) capitalist we've had in power since Margret Thatcher.
If you think there's any remote similarity between che guevara and anyone from the labour party you really are an idiot.
I note you didn't answer my questions. And you have to resort to ad-hominem attacks again.
I think you know you don't have a leg to stand on.
Go on, humour me: you work either directly, or indirectly with money from the state, don't you? Or you a re a net recipient of money from the state. Be honest./". 25 years self employed gas engineer or what what we used to call ...the boiler man. No ad-hom attack just a disbelief in your naivety! | |||
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"The State does not have a right to my money. " no matter how many times you say it you are still wrong .... they do, and that's a fact | |||
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" No ad-hom attack just a disbelief in your naivety!" It's mostly ad-hom, people only have to read above. So, no cash-in-hand then? Ever? go on, be honest, I dare you | |||
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"The State does not have a right to my money. no matter how many times you say it you are still wrong .... they do, and that's a fact" Where does this 'right' come from them? They may legislate to take some (which I agree with). But they don't have a right. Enlighten me. | |||
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"The State does not have a right to my money. no matter how many times you say it you are still wrong .... they do, and that's a fact Where does this 'right' come from them? They may legislate to take some (which I agree with). But they don't have a right. Enlighten me." where it comes from is irrelevant .... the fact is they have a legal right to your money .... despite your extreme right wing dreaming | |||
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" No ad-hom attack just a disbelief in your naivety! It's mostly ad-hom, people only have to read above. So, no cash-in-hand then? Ever? go on, be honest, I dare you" . In the old days there was loads. People still ask today and I oblige them by taking cash(they feel there getting it cheaper) but the price is the price and it gets banked just like any other payment. Hmrc go through every single scrap of paper receipt , part bought, mile travelled and like every body else it's all payed for electronically so you can't dodge nothing. Now if I was to do some serious vat or tax evasion I can tell you I'd face serious fines and imprisonment... Or if I was a multi millionaire maybe an agreement to pay what I owed | |||
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" No ad-hom attack just a disbelief in your naivety! It's mostly ad-hom, people only have to read above. So, no cash-in-hand then? Ever? go on, be honest, I dare you. In the old days there was loads. People still ask today and I oblige them by taking cash(they feel there getting it cheaper) but the price is the price and it gets banked just like any other payment. Hmrc go through every single scrap of paper receipt , part bought, mile travelled and like every body else it's all payed for electronically so you can't dodge nothing. Now if I was to do some serious vat or tax evasion I can tell you I'd face serious fines and imprisonment... Or if I was a multi millionaire maybe an agreement to pay what I owed "and the possibility of a peership and a ministerial post | |||
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" No ad-hom attack just a disbelief in your naivety! It's mostly ad-hom, people only have to read above. So, no cash-in-hand then? Ever? go on, be honest, I dare you. In the old days there was loads. People still ask today and I oblige them by taking cash(they feel there getting it cheaper) but the price is the price and it gets banked just like any other payment. Hmrc go through every single scrap of paper receipt , part bought, mile travelled and like every body else it's all payed for electronically so you can't dodge nothing. Now if I was to do some serious vat or tax evasion I can tell you I'd face serious fines and imprisonment... Or if I was a multi millionaire maybe an agreement to pay what I owed
and the possibility of a peership and a ministerial post ". Is there a minister for anarchy!. I'm tempted | |||
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" No ad-hom attack just a disbelief in your naivety! It's mostly ad-hom, people only have to read above. So, no cash-in-hand then? Ever? go on, be honest, I dare you. In the old days there was loads. People still ask today and I oblige them by taking cash(they feel there getting it cheaper) but the price is the price and it gets banked just like any other payment. Hmrc go through every single scrap of paper receipt , part bought, mile travelled and like every body else it's all payed for electronically so you can't dodge nothing. Now if I was to do some serious vat or tax evasion I can tell you I'd face serious fines and imprisonment... Or if I was a multi millionaire maybe an agreement to pay what I owed
and the possibility of a peership and a ministerial post ". What am I taking about if I was an international corporation or multi millionaire I'd just have deloitte come to an amicable agreement with hmrc over lunch without anyone looking at my books anyhow | |||
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"The State does not have a right to my money. no matter how many times you say it you are still wrong .... they do, and that's a fact Where does this 'right' come from them? They may legislate to take some (which I agree with). But they don't have a right. Enlighten me. where it comes from is irrelevant .... the fact is they have a legal right to your money .... despite your extreme right wing dreaming" Ad-hominem attack again. And if you read above, you'll see that I agree with the legal means to collect taxes. If you paid more attention you might have a more informed opinion. And if you think my view is extreme and right-wing, you have a poor grasp of history, as well as basic understanding | |||
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" No ad-hom attack just a disbelief in your naivety! It's mostly ad-hom, people only have to read above. So, no cash-in-hand then? Ever? go on, be honest, I dare you. In the old days there was loads. People still ask today and I oblige them by taking cash(they feel there getting it cheaper) but the price is the price and it gets banked just like any other payment. Hmrc go through every single scrap of paper receipt , part bought, mile travelled and like every body else it's all payed for electronically so you can't dodge nothing. Now if I was to do some serious vat or tax evasion I can tell you I'd face serious fines and imprisonment... Or if I was a multi millionaire maybe an agreement to pay what I owed "So in the past you took cash in hand. And I presume therefore didn't pay tax. Am I right? | |||
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"The State does not have a right to my money. no matter how many times you say it you are still wrong .... they do, and that's a fact Where does this 'right' come from them? They may legislate to take some (which I agree with). But they don't have a right. Enlighten me. where it comes from is irrelevant .... the fact is they have a legal right to your money .... despite your extreme right wing dreaming" . Most people will plan their tax affairs in order to pay all tax the is legally due after offsetting all the various allowances available . What is let over is available to either spend or save as you please.. | |||
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