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Winston Churchill
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By *yrdwoman OP Woman
over a year ago
Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum |
Its the 50th anniversary of his death today. I personally think he was a great man, at least in the later part of his life, and was the leader we needed at the time, but a lot of other people think otherwise. The fact he was (most likely) d*unk the entire length of WWII makes him a legend to me.
So what do you think? The best leader we ever had? Or a trouble maker who should have been controlled by others? Or just a great man with flaws?
Discuss  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think you've said it right in your original post - he was the leader Britain needed at the time and whatever your political views it's hard to argue with that. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Its the 50th anniversary of his death today. I personally think he was a great man, at least in the later part of his life, and was the leader we needed at the time, but a lot of other people think otherwise. The fact he was (most likely) d*unk the entire length of WWII makes him a legend to me.
So what do you think? The best leader we ever had? Or a trouble maker who should have been controlled by others? Or just a great man with flaws?
Discuss "
I think there are 2 different answers here... He was a Great War time prime minister and I don't think you could have asked for anyone better for that time
As a peace time prime minister... Nowhere near as impressive and in a sense it kinda past him by
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Agree with the general sentiment - he was a supreme leader in a dire time of need - galvanised the country and, to be honest, if it wasn't for him it could have been a very different outcome for our nation.
Oldham was the town where he was first elected as an MP in 1900 - they are thinking of commissioning a statue of him on the old Town Hall steps where he made his first ever speech as an MP - thumbs up to that  |
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By *bfoxxxMan
over a year ago
Crete or LANCASTER |
When at some function, he was accused of being d*unk by some woman, he replied, "And Madam you are ugly.
But in the morning I shall be Sober"
Priceless.I just need an occasion to use it.
The Greatest Briton, and a good brickie too by all accounts.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There's no evidence that his speech's did anything for war time leadership or galvanise any spirit for fighting on.
If you look at analysis from the time his speech's were at best polarising with lots of people thinking he was a d*unken idiot and the other half thinking he was a master war tactician. Although he had plenty of disasters on that front too.
Personally I neither idolise him nor deride him, he had his good points and his bad ones, he was certainly no saint, but no failure either. |
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"Agree with the general sentiment - he was a supreme leader in a dire time of need - galvanised the country and, to be honest, if it wasn't for him it could have been a very different outcome for our nation.
Oldham was the town where he was first elected as an MP in 1900 - they are thinking of commissioning a statue of him on the old Town Hall steps where he made his first ever speech as an MP - thumbs up to that "
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"A legend in his own lifetime, his leadership and tenacity was our saviour, any lesser person would not have had the same effect.
He was himself a hero of many earlier conflicts."
hero..?
care to clarify |
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"In May 1940 he was the man for the job. In many other things he was flawed. Frankly, I've always thought highly of Atlee  "
agreed, apart from Atlee..
Churchill had many flaws and made many mistakes in his time and he became an iconic leader when we we had our backs against the wall..
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"A legend in his own lifetime, his leadership and tenacity was our saviour, any lesser person would not have had the same effect.
He was himself a hero of many earlier conflicts.
hero..?
care to clarify"
1895 Cuba recommended and received distinguished a Merit
1897 India. Recovered wounded whilst under fire and in the same year was involved in an intense battle that saw 17 killed and more than 50 wounded. Mentioned in dispatches for bravery and received the India Medal.
1898 Sudan. Attached to the Lancers he took part in the Lancers cavalry charge (now recognised to be the last ever charge of its kind) against the Dervish. The subsequent hand to hand battle was grisly with 20% of the Lancers killed or wounded. Three Victoria Crosses were awarded in this engagement alone and 21 fatalities were from Churchills own squadron. Later awarded the Queens Sudan Medal.
His most famous (infamous?) exploit though was his escape and evasion from the Boers in 1899.
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"In May 1940 he was the man for the job. In many other things he was flawed. Frankly, I've always thought highly of Atlee
agreed, apart from Atlee..
Churchill had many flaws and made many mistakes in his time and he became an iconic leader when we we had our backs against the wall..
"
And this type of answer is why the question is so interesting because people forget he had two different stretches as pm... And tend to concentrate on the wartime stretch
Churchill was the right man for the job during wartime... I don't think anyone would debate that and for that we are all owed a debt of gratitude
But atlee was the much better pm in peacetime.... Again the right man for the job at that time |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Mr. Speaker, I stand here this afternoon to plead the cause of a great man. It may be, at some other time and under other circumstances, I may take a directly opposite position. But this afternoon, I speak on behalf of great military man and of retrenchment for his misgivings... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"When at some function, he was accused of being d*unk by some woman, he replied, "And Madam you are ugly.
But in the morning I shall be Sober"
Priceless.I just need an occasion to use it.Hahahaha.. priceless exactly Something the old school had that,s Sadly lost.
The Greatest Briton, and a good brickie too by all accounts.
"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Gallipoli
Great strike
Norway
Dunkirk
Trouble is all his failures are overshadowed by success, though he did have a good team around him (which in some way is an indicator of his strength).
N.B Morrison over Attlee |
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"In May 1940 he was the man for the job. In many other things he was flawed. Frankly, I've always thought highly of Atlee
agreed, apart from Atlee..
Churchill had many flaws and made many mistakes in his time and he became an iconic leader when we we had our backs against the wall..
And this type of answer is why the question is so interesting because people forget he had two different stretches as pm... And tend to concentrate on the wartime stretch
Churchill was the right man for the job during wartime... I don't think anyone would debate that and for that we are all owed a debt of gratitude
But atlee was the much better pm in peacetime.... Again the right man for the job at that time"
Really!..Atlee led a disaster of a government driven by the vanity of left wing dogma..economic growth was below that of France, Germany, and Japan ..consequently kicked out in 1951 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"In May 1940 he was the man for the job. In many other things he was flawed. Frankly, I've always thought highly of Atlee
agreed, apart from Atlee..
Churchill had many flaws and made many mistakes in his time and he became an iconic leader when we we had our backs against the wall..
And this type of answer is why the question is so interesting because people forget he had two different stretches as pm... And tend to concentrate on the wartime stretch
Churchill was the right man for the job during wartime... I don't think anyone would debate that and for that we are all owed a debt of gratitude
But atlee was the much better pm in peacetime.... Again the right man for the job at that time
Really!..Atlee led a disaster of a government driven by the vanity of left wing dogma..economic growth was below that of France, Germany, and Japan ..consequently kicked out in 1951"
that's because those three countries received massive rebuilding programmes, Germany and Japan both made successors from being unable to spend vast fortunes on defence and having someone else do it for them!.
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By *vsnikkiTV/TS
over a year ago
Limavady |
"Gallipoli
Great strike
Norway
Dunkirk
Trouble is all his failures are overshadowed by success, though he did have a good team around him (which in some way is an indicator of his strength).
N.B Morrison over Attlee"
I think he can take credit for Naval performance at Dunkirk but you could add Greece and Crete to thé debacles BUT he was the leader Britain (and the free world) needed in 1940.
His negotiations with D'Valera in 1940 and his earlier opinions on Irish Home Rule do him no credit. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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RT. HON. WINSTON (LEONARD SPENCER),
P.C. O.M., C.H., F.R.S. (BORN 1874) son Of RT. HON. LORD RANDOLPH (HENRY SPENCER), prime minister, 1940-45. Vigorous war leader. M.P. for woodford Since 1945. M.P. for the Epping division Of Essex, 1924-45. Was with the British Force during the Indian frontier Troubles 1897-98; served in the sudan Campaign, and during the boer war had many dramatic adventures And wrote some excellent letters to The papers. became a prominent figure In Parliament, and worked heartily for The conservatives until Mr Chamberlain Brought out his fiscal proposals, when He declared against them in the most Emphatic manner, and eventually joined The liberal ranks. Under-Secretary for The Colonies 1905-08; President of the Board of trade 1908-10; Home Secretary 1910-11. First lord of the Admiralty, 1911-15 and 1939-40. Chancellor of the Duchy of lancaster, 1915. Minister of Munitions, 1917; Minister of War, 1918-21; Minister of Air, 1919-21. Sec. of state for the Colonies, 1921-22. Chancellor of the Ex-chequer 1924-29; Lord Rector of Edinburgh University, 1929-32; Chancellor of Bristol university, 1930; Leader of Conservative party since oct. 1940 Upto these present notes from 1950. Lord Warden of the Cinque ports since 1941. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"RT. HON. WINSTON (LEONARD SPENCER),
P.C. O.M., C.H., F.R.S. (BORN 1874) son Of RT. HON. LORD RANDOLPH (HENRY SPENCER), prime minister, 1940-45. Vigorous war leader. M.P. for woodford Since 1945. M.P. for the Epping division Of Essex, 1924-45. Was with the British Force during the Indian frontier Troubles 1897-98; served in the sudan Campaign, and during the boer war had many dramatic adventures And wrote some excellent letters to The papers. became a prominent figure In Parliament, and worked heartily for The conservatives until Mr Chamberlain Brought out his fiscal proposals, when He declared against them in the most Emphatic manner, and eventually joined The liberal ranks. Under-Secretary for The Colonies 1905-08; President of the Board of trade 1908-10; Home Secretary 1910-11. First lord of the Admiralty, 1911-15 and 1939-40. Chancellor of the Duchy of lancaster, 1915. Minister of Munitions, 1917; Minister of War, 1918-21; Minister of Air, 1919-21. Sec. of state for the Colonies, 1921-22. Chancellor of the Ex-chequer 1924-29; Lord Rector of Edinburgh University, 1929-32; Chancellor of Bristol university, 1930; Leader of Conservative party since oct. 1940 Upto these present notes from 1950. Lord Warden of the Cinque ports since 1941. "
Not to forget His Surname.. Winston Churchill. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Yes Germany and Japan may have lost the war but they certainly won the peace but how much is down to their cultures work ethic "
.
I don't think they work any "better" or harder than any other pair of hands.
What they had was far superior management. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Gallipoli
Great strike
Norway
Dunkirk
Trouble is all his failures are overshadowed by success, though he did have a good team around him (which in some way is an indicator of his strength).
N.B Morrison over Attlee
I think he can take credit for Naval performance at Dunkirk but you could add Greece and Crete to thé debacles BUT he was the leader Britain (and the free world) needed in 1940.
His negotiations with D'Valera in 1940 and his earlier opinions on Irish Home Rule do him no credit."
.
He had dubious beliefs about everywhere from the middle East to India, he was a raving imperialist. |
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By *yrdwoman OP Woman
over a year ago
Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum |
"He had dubious beliefs about everywhere from the middle East to India, he was a raving imperialist."
Everyone knows that now. But just think - so were the rest of us back then. In fact, judging from some of the comments on these fora, there are still some Imperialists around now. |
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"A legend in his own lifetime, his leadership and tenacity was our saviour, any lesser person would not have had the same effect.
He was himself a hero of many earlier conflicts.
hero..?
care to clarify
1895 Cuba recommended and received distinguished a Merit
1897 India. Recovered wounded whilst under fire and in the same year was involved in an intense battle that saw 17 killed and more than 50 wounded. Mentioned in dispatches for bravery and received the India Medal.
1898 Sudan. Attached to the Lancers he took part in the Lancers cavalry charge (now recognised to be the last ever charge of its kind) against the Dervish. The subsequent hand to hand battle was grisly with 20% of the Lancers killed or wounded. Three Victoria Crosses were awarded in this engagement alone and 21 fatalities were from Churchills own squadron. Later awarded the Queens Sudan Medal.
His most famous (infamous?) exploit though was his escape and evasion from the Boers in 1899.
"
i personally would not class those as 'heroic', respect its a very subjective term.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Its the 50th anniversary of his death today. I personally think he was a great man, at least in the later part of his life, and was the leader we needed at the time, but a lot of other people think otherwise. The fact he was (most likely) d*unk the entire length of WWII makes him a legend to me.
So what do you think? The best leader we ever had? Or a trouble maker who should have been controlled by others? Or just a great man with flaws?
Discuss "
I think he was a total legend, somewhat enhanced by the fact that his political career outside of war times wasn't so great. Everyone who didn't fear his intelligence before WWII turned out to be a damp squib when the real challenge came and if his underdog spirit hasn't lived on since in lesser people, we may all be fucked! |
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"A legend in his own lifetime, his leadership and tenacity was our saviour, any lesser person would not have had the same effect.
He was himself a hero of many earlier conflicts.
hero..?
care to clarify
1895 Cuba recommended and received distinguished a Merit
1897 India. Recovered wounded whilst under fire and in the same year was involved in an intense battle that saw 17 killed and more than 50 wounded. Mentioned in dispatches for bravery and received the India Medal.
1898 Sudan. Attached to the Lancers he took part in the Lancers cavalry charge (now recognised to be the last ever charge of its kind) against the Dervish. The subsequent hand to hand battle was grisly with 20% of the Lancers killed or wounded. Three Victoria Crosses were awarded in this engagement alone and 21 fatalities were from Churchills own squadron. Later awarded the Queens Sudan Medal.
His most famous (infamous?) exploit though was his escape and evasion from the Boers in 1899.
"
just finished reading churchills account of his roll in the build up and subsequent ww2, Legend |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"A legend in his own lifetime, his leadership and tenacity was our saviour, any lesser person would not have had the same effect.
He was himself a hero of many earlier conflicts.
hero..?
care to clarify
1895 Cuba recommended and received distinguished a Merit
1897 India. Recovered wounded whilst under fire and in the same year was involved in an intense battle that saw 17 killed and more than 50 wounded. Mentioned in dispatches for bravery and received the India Medal.
1898 Sudan. Attached to the Lancers he took part in the Lancers cavalry charge (now recognised to be the last ever charge of its kind) against the Dervish. The subsequent hand to hand battle was grisly with 20% of the Lancers killed or wounded. Three Victoria Crosses were awarded in this engagement alone and 21 fatalities were from Churchills own squadron. Later awarded the Queens Sudan Medal.
His most famous (infamous?) exploit though was his escape and evasion from the Boers in 1899.
i personally would not class those as 'heroic', respect its a very subjective term.."
That is a little bit churlish. He had a distinguished military record which is worthy of respect. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
My mother was an ATS driver during WWII and was sent to collect Churchill off the London - Edinburgh train at a level crossing somewhere in East Lothian.
She was proud to have been chosen and was really looking forward to meeting him.
Unfortunately it turned out to be one of his 'doubles '. |
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"In May 1940 he was the man for the job. In many other things he was flawed. Frankly, I've always thought highly of Atlee
agreed, apart from Atlee..
Churchill had many flaws and made many mistakes in his time and he became an iconic leader when we we had our backs against the wall..
And this type of answer is why the question is so interesting because people forget he had two different stretches as pm... And tend to concentrate on the wartime stretch
Churchill was the right man for the job during wartime... I don't think anyone would debate that and for that we are all owed a debt of gratitude
But atlee was the much better pm in peacetime.... Again the right man for the job at that time
Really!..Atlee led a disaster of a government driven by the vanity of left wing dogma..economic growth was below that of France, Germany, and Japan ..consequently kicked out in 1951 that's because those three countries received massive rebuilding programmes, Germany and Japan both made successors from being unable to spend vast fortunes on defence and having someone else do it for them!.
"
The United States Marshal plan aimed to spend 161 billion dollars in current value to aid European recovery after WW2...26% of which went to the UK..18% France, and 11% to West Germany most of which we wasted on gross inefficiency. |
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By *bfoxxxMan
over a year ago
Crete or LANCASTER |
He was warning about the build up of armaments in Germany years before the war.
Shame they didn't listen, we might have been better equipped.
The scheduled refit of the Hood might have been completed.
Cometh the hour, cometh the man
HE was the man.
He took difficult decisions,and we won.
You can't argue that. |
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I don't rate him.....he succeeded in defeating the spread of facism and i applaud that. He stuck up for the freedom of small nations except the Irish freestate and refused to supply equipment and arms to defend against Nazi invasion. His response was to bully a constutilnaly neutral state into a war it was ill equipped to fight and leaving it open to Nazi attack. He threatened the use of threaty ports and even tried to tempt the freestate into the war by ending partition. He had no respect for soverity. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"A legend in his own lifetime, his leadership and tenacity was our saviour, any lesser person would not have had the same effect.
He was himself a hero of many earlier conflicts.
hero..?
care to clarify
1895 Cuba recommended and received distinguished a Merit
1897 India. Recovered wounded whilst under fire and in the same year was involved in an intense battle that saw 17 killed and more than 50 wounded. Mentioned in dispatches for bravery and received the India Medal.
1898 Sudan. Attached to the Lancers he took part in the Lancers cavalry charge (now recognised to be the last ever charge of its kind) against the Dervish. The subsequent hand to hand battle was grisly with 20% of the Lancers killed or wounded. Three Victoria Crosses were awarded in this engagement alone and 21 fatalities were from Churchills own squadron. Later awarded the Queens Sudan Medal.
His most famous (infamous?) exploit though was his escape and evasion from the Boers in 1899.
Churchill a hero in India?
He just played a small part in mass butchery, surely?
"
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Gallipoli
Great strike
Norway
Dunkirk
Trouble is all his failures are overshadowed by success, though he did have a good team around him (which in some way is an indicator of his strength).
N.B Morrison over Attlee
I think he can take credit for Naval performance at Dunkirk but you could add Greece and Crete to thé debacles BUT he was the leader Britain (and the free world) needed in 1940.
His negotiations with D'Valera in 1940 and his earlier opinions on Irish Home Rule do him no credit..
He had dubious beliefs about everywhere from the middle East to India, he was a raving imperialist."
Was he wrong in the world war 2 cos when all is said and done he led us to victory and that's good enough to me |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"In May 1940 he was the man for the job. In many other things he was flawed. Frankly, I've always thought highly of Atlee
agreed, apart from Atlee..
Churchill had many flaws and made many mistakes in his time and he became an iconic leader when we we had our backs against the wall..
And this type of answer is why the question is so interesting because people forget he had two different stretches as pm... And tend to concentrate on the wartime stretch
Churchill was the right man for the job during wartime... I don't think anyone would debate that and for that we are all owed a debt of gratitude
But atlee was the much better pm in peacetime.... Again the right man for the job at that time
Really!..Atlee led a disaster of a government driven by the vanity of left wing dogma..economic growth was below that of France, Germany, and Japan ..consequently kicked out in 1951 that's because those three countries received massive rebuilding programmes, Germany and Japan both made successors from being unable to spend vast fortunes on defence and having someone else do it for them!.
The United States Marshal plan aimed to spend 161 billion dollars in current value to aid European recovery after WW2...26% of which went to the UK..18% France, and 11% to West Germany most of which we wasted on gross inefficiency."
Yes! Labour were back in! |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"A legend in his own lifetime, his leadership and tenacity was our saviour, any lesser person would not have had the same effect.
He was himself a hero of many earlier conflicts.
hero..?
care to clarify
1895 Cuba recommended and received distinguished a Merit
1897 India. Recovered wounded whilst under fire and in the same year was involved in an intense battle that saw 17 killed and more than 50 wounded. Mentioned in dispatches for bravery and received the India Medal.
1898 Sudan. Attached to the Lancers he took part in the Lancers cavalry charge (now recognised to be the last ever charge of its kind) against the Dervish. The subsequent hand to hand battle was grisly with 20% of the Lancers killed or wounded. Three Victoria Crosses were awarded in this engagement alone and 21 fatalities were from Churchills own squadron. Later awarded the Queens Sudan Medal.
His most famous (infamous?) exploit though was his escape and evasion from the Boers in 1899.
Churchill a hero in India?
He just played a small part in mass butchery, surely?
"
Winston Churchill had a distinguished military career and undertook many selfless acts of bravery on the battlefield. Just like today's soldiers, he was involved in conflicts not of his making. His military career is well documented and irrefutable. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Gallipoli
Great strike
Norway
Dunkirk
Trouble is all his failures are overshadowed by success, though he did have a good team around him (which in some way is an indicator of his strength).
N.B Morrison over Attlee
I think he can take credit for Naval performance at Dunkirk but you could add Greece and Crete to thé debacles BUT he was the leader Britain (and the free world) needed in 1940.
His negotiations with D'Valera in 1940 and his earlier opinions on Irish Home Rule do him no credit..
He had dubious beliefs about everywhere from the middle East to India, he was a raving imperialist.
Was he wrong in the world war 2 cos when all is said and done he led us to victory and that's good enough to me "
.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
Inspiration is one thing, getting up from finding your house blown to bits or your family dead is just pure will to live.
If you base your observation on brilliance by speech's and inspiration, your forced to say Hitler was a genius for the Germans. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Winston Churchill had a distinguished military career and undertook many selfless acts of bravery on the battlefield. Just like today's soldiers, he was involved in conflicts not of his making. His military career is well documented and irrefutable.
Irrefutable? Considering that as far as war is concerned, history is written by the victors, I would find all war records 'very' questionable, - after all, even today gross brutality by armed forces is
promptly swept under the carpet - as I'm sure it was then!!
......but as far as 'bravery' is concerned, were the Nazi's any different? Mass butchery is just that; MASS BUTCHERY! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Winston Churchill had a distinguished military career and undertook many selfless acts of bravery on the battlefield. Just like today's soldiers, he was involved in conflicts not of his making. His military career is well documented and irrefutable.
Irrefutable? Considering that as far as war is concerned, history is written by the victors, I would find all war records 'very' questionable, - after all, even today gross brutality by armed forces is
promptly swept under the carpet - as I'm sure it was then!!
......but as far as 'bravery' is concerned, were the Nazi's any different? Mass butchery is just that; MASS BUTCHERY!"
.
Are you sure your not taking about Bernard Matthews  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Winston Churchill had a distinguished military career and undertook many selfless acts of bravery on the battlefield. Just like today's soldiers, he was involved in conflicts not of his making. His military career is well documented and irrefutable.
Irrefutable? Considering that as far as war is concerned, history is written by the victors, I would find all war records 'very' questionable, - after all, even today gross brutality by armed forces is
promptly swept under the carpet - as I'm sure it was then!!
......but as far as 'bravery' is concerned, were the Nazi's any different? Mass butchery is just that; MASS BUTCHERY!.
Are you sure your not taking about Bernard Matthews "
Just a mass injection of water is needed for that cat food! ........omg, the things people bought!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Winston Churchill had a distinguished military career and undertook many selfless acts of bravery on the battlefield. Just like today's soldiers, he was involved in conflicts not of his making. His military career is well documented and irrefutable.
Irrefutable? Considering that as far as war is concerned, history is written by the victors, I would find all war records 'very' questionable, - after all, even today gross brutality by armed forces is
promptly swept under the carpet - as I'm sure it was then!!
......but as far as 'bravery' is concerned, were the Nazi's any different? Mass butchery is just that; MASS BUTCHERY!.
Are you sure your not taking about Bernard Matthews "
Oh dear |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Although Churchill was an excellent war time leader, he has never been forgiven for sending the army to the Welsh valley's to end an industrial dispute in his early political career. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If the Irish people reject this threaty we will have no choice to unleash a terrible and bloody war....diplomat or bully"
Bully, definitely!
But of course it didn't & can never work, - fair play to the Irish, - they refuse to accept shit! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" never in the field of human conflict has so much been owed by so many, to so few"
It's speeches like that that inspired the nation, and made him into a legend he made mistakes at the end of the day he was human,
I respect his wartime spirit |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The end justifies the means.
What would have happened if we had lost?
I cannot think of any modern politician capable of doing the job today.
"
.
Funny I can't think of any modern politician capable of doing a job either...
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"" never in the field of human conflict has so much been owed by so many, to so few"
It's speeches like that that inspired the nation, and made him into a legend he made mistakes at the end of the day he was human,
I respect his wartime spirit "
FFS, it was the allies who won the war, not some twat with a fat cigar & twisted on brandy; get a grip everyone!!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Perfect war time leader with great leadership and a military history that was impressive for a PM. Cigars and drinking were no major deal at the time, but I think of those quite fondly now.
A real legend who delivered at a time of greatest need, although during peacetime I'm less familiar with his impact upon the nation. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Its the 50th anniversary of his death today. I personally think he was a great man, at least in the later part of his life, and was the leader we needed at the time, but a lot of other people think otherwise. The fact he was (most likely) d*unk the entire length of WWII makes him a legend to me.
So what do you think? The best leader we ever had? Or a trouble maker who should have been controlled by others? Or just a great man with flaws?
Discuss "
I think there is no doubt he was a cantankerous old bugger with a massive ego, but a true war time leader. John F Kennedy once said, "He mobilised the English language, and sent it into battle".
The one quote of Churchill's that always sticks in my mind is, " Hitler knows that he will have to beat us in these Isles, or loose the war". Simple, provocative, and brilliant. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"When at some function, he was accused of being d*unk by some woman, he replied, "And Madam you are ugly.
But in the morning I shall be Sober"
Priceless.I just need an occasion to use it.
The Greatest Briton, and a good brickie too by all accounts.
"
One of my favourites, was one of his many arguments with lady Astor. She apparently told Churchill "Sir, if you were my husband I would give you poison", to which he replied, " Madam, if you were my wife, I'd take it". !!! Brilliant. |
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"A legend in his own lifetime, his leadership and tenacity was our saviour, any lesser person would not have had the same effect.
He was himself a hero of many earlier conflicts.
hero..?
care to clarify
1895 Cuba recommended and received distinguished a Merit
1897 India. Recovered wounded whilst under fire and in the same year was involved in an intense battle that saw 17 killed and more than 50 wounded. Mentioned in dispatches for bravery and received the India Medal.
1898 Sudan. Attached to the Lancers he took part in the Lancers cavalry charge (now recognised to be the last ever charge of its kind) against the Dervish. The subsequent hand to hand battle was grisly with 20% of the Lancers killed or wounded. Three Victoria Crosses were awarded in this engagement alone and 21 fatalities were from Churchills own squadron. Later awarded the Queens Sudan Medal.
His most famous (infamous?) exploit though was his escape and evasion from the Boers in 1899.
i personally would not class those as 'heroic', respect its a very subjective term..
That is a little bit churlish. He had a distinguished military record which is worthy of respect."
Look at my previous post, clearly states he was an 'iconic leader'..
which by anyone's reasoning is not being disrespectful..
my definition of heroic differs with others..
his achievements in military service are on a par with his comrades in arms at that time..
that's not in question.. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"A legend in his own lifetime, his leadership and tenacity was our saviour, any lesser person would not have had the same effect.
He was himself a hero of many earlier conflicts.
hero..?
care to clarify
1895 Cuba recommended and received distinguished a Merit
1897 India. Recovered wounded whilst under fire and in the same year was involved in an intense battle that saw 17 killed and more than 50 wounded. Mentioned in dispatches for bravery and received the India Medal.
1898 Sudan. Attached to the Lancers he took part in the Lancers cavalry charge (now recognised to be the last ever charge of its kind) against the Dervish. The subsequent hand to hand battle was grisly with 20% of the Lancers killed or wounded. Three Victoria Crosses were awarded in this engagement alone and 21 fatalities were from Churchills own squadron. Later awarded the Queens Sudan Medal.
His most famous (infamous?) exploit though was his escape and evasion from the Boers in 1899.
i personally would not class those as 'heroic', respect its a very subjective term..
That is a little bit churlish. He had a distinguished military record which is worthy of respect.
Look at my previous post, clearly states he was an 'iconic leader'..
which by anyone's reasoning is not being disrespectful..
my definition of heroic differs with others..
his achievements in military service are on a par with his comrades in arms at that time..
that's not in question.."
His actions in recovering wounded men whilst under fire is not on a par with anyone. It is something that he did in the heat of battle and was duly commended for it. His aggression in front of vastly superior numbers of Dervish fighters was also duly noted and warranted respect.
I suspect that you have no experience of military service and therefore assume that everyone acts in the same way in battle? They don't. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A legend in his own lifetime, his leadership and tenacity was our saviour, any lesser person would not have had the same effect.
He was himself a hero of many earlier conflicts.
hero..?
care to clarify
1895 Cuba recommended and received distinguished a Merit
1897 India. Recovered wounded whilst under fire and in the same year was involved in an intense battle that saw 17 killed and more than 50 wounded. Mentioned in dispatches for bravery and received the India Medal.
1898 Sudan. Attached to the Lancers he took part in the Lancers cavalry charge (now recognised to be the last ever charge of its kind) against the Dervish. The subsequent hand to hand battle was grisly with 20% of the Lancers killed or wounded. Three Victoria Crosses were awarded in this engagement alone and 21 fatalities were from Churchills own squadron. Later awarded the Queens Sudan Medal.
His most famous (infamous?) exploit though was his escape and evasion from the Boers in 1899.
i personally would not class those as 'heroic', respect its a very subjective term..
That is a little bit churlish. He had a distinguished military record which is worthy of respect.
Look at my previous post, clearly states he was an 'iconic leader'..
which by anyone's reasoning is not being disrespectful..
my definition of heroic differs with others..
his achievements in military service are on a par with his comrades in arms at that time..
that's not in question..
His actions in recovering wounded men whilst under fire is not on a par with anyone. It is something that he did in the heat of battle and was duly commended for it. His aggression in front of vastly superior numbers of Dervish fighters was also duly noted and warranted respect.
I suspect that you have no experience of military service and therefore assume that everyone acts in the same way in battle? They don't. "
.
The world war 2 flying ace sir Douglas bader, lost both his legs and continued flying and won medals for bravery, shot down and imprisoned in colditz he made several escape attempts and all while having no legs and the film reach for the sky portrayed him as the hero he was.
It didn't stop him being a raging racist bigot or approving of crazy policies like apartheid and beating naughty children.
Peoples actions on the battle field rarely have any rational outside of it. |
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"A legend in his own lifetime, his leadership and tenacity was our saviour, any lesser person would not have had the same effect.
He was himself a hero of many earlier conflicts.
hero..?
care to clarify
1895 Cuba recommended and received distinguished a Merit
1897 India. Recovered wounded whilst under fire and in the same year was involved in an intense battle that saw 17 killed and more than 50 wounded. Mentioned in dispatches for bravery and received the India Medal.
1898 Sudan. Attached to the Lancers he took part in the Lancers cavalry charge (now recognised to be the last ever charge of its kind) against the Dervish. The subsequent hand to hand battle was grisly with 20% of the Lancers killed or wounded. Three Victoria Crosses were awarded in this engagement alone and 21 fatalities were from Churchills own squadron. Later awarded the Queens Sudan Medal.
His most famous (infamous?) exploit though was his escape and evasion from the Boers in 1899.
i personally would not class those as 'heroic', respect its a very subjective term..
That is a little bit churlish. He had a distinguished military record which is worthy of respect.
Look at my previous post, clearly states he was an 'iconic leader'..
which by anyone's reasoning is not being disrespectful..
my definition of heroic differs with others..
his achievements in military service are on a par with his comrades in arms at that time..
that's not in question..
His actions in recovering wounded men whilst under fire is not on a par with anyone. It is something that he did in the heat of battle and was duly commended for it. His aggression in front of vastly superior numbers of Dervish fighters was also duly noted and warranted respect.
I suspect that you have no experience of military service and therefore assume that everyone acts in the same way in battle? They don't. "
you suspect wrongly..
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
".......
his achievements in military service are on a par with his comrades in arms at that time..
that's not in question..
His actions in recovering wounded men whilst under fire is not on a par with anyone. It is something that he did in the heat of battle and was duly commended for it. His aggression in front of vastly superior numbers of Dervish fighters was also duly noted and warranted respect.
I suspect that you have no experience of military service and therefore assume that everyone acts in the same way in battle? They don't.
you suspect wrongly..
"
So are you telling me that you have never witnessed individual acts of bravery and individuals exceeding the requirements of their duty?
You seem to suggest above that everyone acts the same - this is not the case as you would know if you had undertaken active service in an armed conflict. |
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".......
his achievements in military service are on a par with his comrades in arms at that time..
that's not in question..
His actions in recovering wounded men whilst under fire is not on a par with anyone. It is something that he did in the heat of battle and was duly commended for it. His aggression in front of vastly superior numbers of Dervish fighters was also duly noted and warranted respect.
I suspect that you have no experience of military service and therefore assume that everyone acts in the same way in battle? They don't.
you suspect wrongly..
So are you telling me that you have never witnessed individual acts of bravery and individuals exceeding the requirements of their duty?
You seem to suggest above that everyone acts the same - this is not the case as you would know if you had undertaken active service in an armed conflict."
upon reflection whilst it may look like i was being dismissive of Churchill's conduct during times when he was in the front line i was not, however i accept his actions were indeed brave and whilst for some they went beyond what is expected for me they don't..
they are 'what its about' being in situations with ones comrades/crew mates..
seen it and to some small part done it both wearing green and in a blue light public service but for me that is what you are there for/doing your job and not letting your muckers down..
i have an issue with how easily people use the word hero/heroic in today's society (respect that's not been the case here) and that may have swayed my perspective..
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"A legend in his own lifetime, his leadership and tenacity was our saviour, any lesser person would not have had the same effect.
He was himself a hero of many earlier conflicts.
hero..?
care to clarify"
In 1893 Churchill applied to join the Royal Military College at Sandhurst. He chose to join the calvary and became a Second-Lieutenant in the 4th Queen’s Own Hussars.
Alongside his military career, Churchill also wrote about the conflicts he witnessed. This made him extra money and it also allowed him to experience a range of different battles, strategies and military situations.
Winston Churchill was sent to Cuba (where he discovered Cuban cigars), India and Sudan.
Churchill left the British Army on 5th May 1899.
As a war reporter he went to South Africa to cover the Second Boer War. He was captured and made a Prisoner of War in Pretoria. Winston managed to escape from the POW camp.
Churchill joined the South African Light Horse (although he was still a war reporter). |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
Wyrd, did you listen to the R4 series on his other lives? It's worth a listen.
I didn't think it was right to commemorate the 50th anniversary of his death on the news, constantly, in Parliament and on so many programmes. There's stuff going on now that should have taken priority.
He had the biggest State funeral and he is well remembered. That should be enough.
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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago
Titz Towers, North Notts |
"Wyrd, did you listen to the R4 series on his other lives? It's worth a listen.
I didn't think it was right to commemorate the 50th anniversary of his death on the news, constantly, in Parliament and on so many programmes. There's stuff going on now that should have taken priority.
He had the biggest State funeral and he is well remembered. That should be enough.
"
I listened to them and they were good. The commemorations were a bit OTT. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Wyrd, did you listen to the R4 series on his other lives? It's worth a listen.
I didn't think it was right to commemorate the 50th anniversary of his death on the news, constantly, in Parliament and on so many programmes. There's stuff going on now that should have taken priority.
He had the biggest State funeral and he is well remembered. That should be enough.
"
Well a lot of people found it very interesting. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Wyrd, did you listen to the R4 series on his other lives? It's worth a listen.
I didn't think it was right to commemorate the 50th anniversary of his death on the news, constantly, in Parliament and on so many programmes. There's stuff going on now that should have taken priority.
He had the biggest State funeral and he is well remembered. That should be enough.
Well a lot of people found it very interesting."
I'm sure they did. It's not the interest that bothered me but the fact that it's not news, let alone headline news that he died 50 years ago and had a State funeral.
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