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Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition - General Election Policies
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"Where is the money coming from to pay for all of this? Typical socialist pie in the sky bollox."  | |||
"Where is the money coming from to pay for all of this? Typical socialist pie in the sky bollox." Not bollox at all if you read it..people and companies have to buy into it though...lot of sense there...end all this im all right jack fuck the rest of you | |||
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"Privatisation = short term gain to government and fat cat owners who make profit from the masses who pump money back into the parties that made them rich in the first place" | |||
"I guess if you have to ask why change is needed, it must mean you are happy with the current lot of lying,cheating, conniving, corrupt, self centred, self aggrandising puppets we have as MP's." Where's the change? all the above would equally apply to previous generations of politicians, and probably more so..we just didn't know | |||
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"PUBLIC OWNERSHIP, NOT PRIVATE PROFIT Stop all privatisation, including the Private Finance Initiative (PFI) and Public-Private Partnerships (PPP). Bring privatised public services and utilities back into public ownership under democratic control. NO CUTS - FOR QUALITY PUBLIC SERVICES Re-nationalise all rail, bus and ferry services to build an integrated, low-pollution public transport system. Take Royal Mail back into public ownership to guarantee our postal services. Bring prisons, probation, and all other parts of the justice system back into the public sector. For a high-quality, free National Health Service under democratic public ownership and control. Stop council estate sell-offs and build high-standard, eco-friendly, affordable council housing. No to academies and 'free schools'. Good, free education for all, under democratic local authority control; student grants not fees. JOBS, NOT HANDOUTS TO THE BANKERS AND BILLIONAIRES Bring banks and finance institutions into genuine public ownership under democratic control, instead of giving huge handouts to the very capitalists who caused the crisis. Tax the rich. For progressive tax on rich corporations and individuals and an end to tax avoidance. For massive investment in environmental projects. EMPLOYMENT AND TRADE UNION RIGHTS Repeal the anti-trade union laws. Support the TUC's demand to increase the minimum wage to £10 an hour, and for it then to rise in line with inflation or wages, whichever is higher. Scrap zero hour contracts. Guaranteed hours and full employment rights for all. Invest to create and protect jobs, including for young people. Solidarity with workers taking action to defend jobs, conditions, pensions, public services and trade unions. Reinstate full trade union rights to prison officers. PROTECT OUR ENVIRONMENT - STOP GLOBAL WARMING Deep cuts in greenhouse gas emissions - otherwise climate change, caused by capitalism, will destroy us. Invest in publicly-owned and controlled renewable energy. Move to sustainable, low-pollution industry and farming - stop the pollution that is destroying our environment. Produce for need, not profit, and design goods for reuse and recycling. DECENT PENSIONS AND BENEFITS Abolish the bedroom tax. Reverse cuts to benefits; for living benefits; end child poverty. Restore the pre-Thatcher real value of pensions. Reinstate the link with average earnings. STOP THE ATTACKS ON DISABLED PEOPLE Promote inclusive policies to enable disabled people to participate in, and have equal access to, education, employment, housing, transport and welfare provision. Support measures to ensure disabled people receive a level of income according to needs. Equal pay for equal work. DEMOCRACY, DIVERSITY AND JUSTICE Welcome diversity and oppose racism, fascism and discrimination. Defend the right to asylum, repeal the 2014 Immigration Act and all racist immigration controls. Ensure women have genuinely equal rights and pay. Full equality for LGBT people. Defend our liberties and make police and security democratically accountable. For the right to vote at 16. SOLIDARITY NOT WAR No to imperialist wars and occupations! Justice for the Palestinians, lift the siege of Gaza. No more spending on a new generation of nuclear weapons, huge aircraft carriers or irrelevant eurofighters - convert arms spending into socially useful products and services. An independent foreign policy, based on international solidarity - no more being a US poodle, no moves towards a capitalist, militarist United States of Europe. No to austerity and anti-working class policies, whether from the EU or Britain. SOCIALISM For a democratic socialist society run in the interests of people not millionaires. For bringing into democratic public ownership the major companies and banks that dominate the economy, so that production and services can be planned to meet the needs of all and to protect the environment." Complete drivel the lot of it. I wouldn't mind so much if any of it was new. It has all been tried before and failed. Here are a few examples of how the above would also fail NO CUTS - FOR QUALITY PUBLIC SERVICES. Great soundbite and in principle a great idea. However under "employment and trade union rights" it says "increase the minimum wage to £10 an hour" Try putting the two together then doing some maths. Bankers bonuses will pay for it you may say. Of course they will, for maybe a month or two, then what? "Tax the rich" OK let's run with that one for a moment. Oops I forgot we can't because living in a global economy they can all just up sticks and live in a more friendly jurisdiction. So Luxembourg, for example, will get some tax and Britain will get, er, nothing. That sounds like a super way of generating more tax income. Just ask the French, their new 75% tax band actually produced less tax than the old lower rate. That's why they've just scrapped it. "Progressive tax on rich corporations and individuals and an end to tax avoidance. For massive investment in environmental projects" See above, but I would add that these "rich corporations" are mostly owned by you and me, through our pension funds. So let's tax them to the hilt and the ones that hang around can stop paying dividends and your pension company can stop paying you. To be honest rather than wasting time taking the rest of it point by point I think the whole lot of it would pretty much turn Britain into North Korea's poor relation. | |||
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"PUBLIC OWNERSHIP, NOT PRIVATE PROFIT Stop all privatisation, including the Private Finance Initiative (PFI) and Public-Private Partnerships (PPP). Bring privatised public services and utilities back into public ownership under democratic control. NO CUTS - FOR QUALITY PUBLIC SERVICES Re-nationalise all rail, bus and ferry services to build an integrated, low-pollution public transport system. Take Royal Mail back into public ownership to guarantee our postal services. Bring prisons, probation, and all other parts of the justice system back into the public sector. For a high-quality, free National Health Service under democratic public ownership and control. Stop council estate sell-offs and build high-standard, eco-friendly, affordable council housing. No to academies and 'free schools'. Good, free education for all, under democratic local authority control; student grants not fees. JOBS, NOT HANDOUTS TO THE BANKERS AND BILLIONAIRES Bring banks and finance institutions into genuine public ownership under democratic control, instead of giving huge handouts to the very capitalists who caused the crisis. Tax the rich. For progressive tax on rich corporations and individuals and an end to tax avoidance. For massive investment in environmental projects. EMPLOYMENT AND TRADE UNION RIGHTS Repeal the anti-trade union laws. Support the TUC's demand to increase the minimum wage to £10 an hour, and for it then to rise in line with inflation or wages, whichever is higher. Scrap zero hour contracts. Guaranteed hours and full employment rights for all. Invest to create and protect jobs, including for young people. Solidarity with workers taking action to defend jobs, conditions, pensions, public services and trade unions. Reinstate full trade union rights to prison officers. PROTECT OUR ENVIRONMENT - STOP GLOBAL WARMING Deep cuts in greenhouse gas emissions - otherwise climate change, caused by capitalism, will destroy us. Invest in publicly-owned and controlled renewable energy. Move to sustainable, low-pollution industry and farming - stop the pollution that is destroying our environment. Produce for need, not profit, and design goods for reuse and recycling. DECENT PENSIONS AND BENEFITS Abolish the bedroom tax. Reverse cuts to benefits; for living benefits; end child poverty. Restore the pre-Thatcher real value of pensions. Reinstate the link with average earnings. STOP THE ATTACKS ON DISABLED PEOPLE Promote inclusive policies to enable disabled people to participate in, and have equal access to, education, employment, housing, transport and welfare provision. Support measures to ensure disabled people receive a level of income according to needs. Equal pay for equal work. DEMOCRACY, DIVERSITY AND JUSTICE Welcome diversity and oppose racism, fascism and discrimination. Defend the right to asylum, repeal the 2014 Immigration Act and all racist immigration controls. Ensure women have genuinely equal rights and pay. Full equality for LGBT people. Defend our liberties and make police and security democratically accountable. For the right to vote at 16. SOLIDARITY NOT WAR No to imperialist wars and occupations! Justice for the Palestinians, lift the siege of Gaza. No more spending on a new generation of nuclear weapons, huge aircraft carriers or irrelevant eurofighters - convert arms spending into socially useful products and services. An independent foreign policy, based on international solidarity - no more being a US poodle, no moves towards a capitalist, militarist United States of Europe. No to austerity and anti-working class policies, whether from the EU or Britain. SOCIALISM For a democratic socialist society run in the interests of people not millionaires. For bringing into democratic public ownership the major companies and banks that dominate the economy, so that production and services can be planned to meet the needs of all and to protect the environment." | |||
"Euro fighters are only irrelevant until we need them. And I for one am thankful we have them. What do you suggest as a replacement rhetoric and a focus group? " No a public enquiry will do just fine then ask the invaders to wait for the report.  | |||
"Euro fighters are only irrelevant until we need them. And I for one am thankful we have them. What do you suggest as a replacement rhetoric and a focus group? No a public enquiry will do just fine then ask the invaders to wait for the report. "Just make sure that the report is on recycled paper from a sustainable ethical source please  | |||
Wake up people. You're being lied to by your state on a daily basis. Who knew that oil went cheap because ISIS are selling oil for $20 a barrel? No? Because it wasn't on the news. The current government is FULL of crap and lies to us, so that the brainwashed masses think everything is ok on their minimum wage, welfare income and feel helpless - due to all "current affairs" taking palce abroad. UKIP set alarm bells ringing but thankfully we had terrorist attacks and disasters to take our mind of our own countries problems. Allowing the rich get richer while the poor get poorer. THIS is EXACTLY why we need CHANGE. | |||
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"Euro fighters are only irrelevant until we need them. And I for one am thankful we have them. What do you suggest as a replacement rhetoric and a focus group? " But when are they genuinely gonna be needed? | |||
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"Euro fighters are only irrelevant until we need them. And I for one am thankful we have them. What do you suggest as a replacement rhetoric and a focus group? But when are they genuinely gonna be needed?" Yesterday, today, and tomorrow. | |||
"But when are they genuinely gonna be needed?" I'm on the fence about this one. As long as we keep the ones we have, fine. No need to keep wasting all our money on new ones. Have you seen the size of Russias army? How about North Korea's? Their air forces are terrifying. The friction in Ukraine is worrying indeed (but that's been swept under the carpet again, thanks tory wankers). Both of those countries wont be attacking us via the Atlantic ocean. So, that's when we need it. Also, what happens when Japan goes to war with China? Who else kicks off? Again, they have to get through America before they can get to the Atlantic. I tell you, these arent no rag head amateurs either. | |||
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"But when are they genuinely gonna be needed? I'm on the fence about this one. As long as we keep the ones we have, fine. No need to keep wasting all our money on new ones. Have you seen the size of Russias army? How about North Korea's? Their air forces are terrifying. The friction in Ukraine is worrying indeed (but that's been swept under the carpet again, thanks tory wankers). Both of those countries wont be attacking us via the Atlantic ocean. So, that's when we need it. Also, what happens when Japan goes to war with China? Who else kicks off? Again, they have to get through America before they can get to the Atlantic. I tell you, these arent no rag head amateurs either." All very true, but these days the rag heads are not amateurs either. Scrapping the armed forces is all very well until ISIS, or whatever their new name is this week, waltz through Turkey and are knocking on our door. Try dealing with those nutters with a focus group. | |||
"But when are they genuinely gonna be needed? I'm on the fence about this one. As long as we keep the ones we have, fine. No need to keep wasting all our money on new ones. Have you seen the size of Russias army? How about North Korea's? Their air forces are terrifying. The friction in Ukraine is worrying indeed (but that's been swept under the carpet again, thanks tory wankers). Both of those countries wont be attacking us via the Atlantic ocean. So, that's when we need it. Also, what happens when Japan goes to war with China? Who else kicks off? Again, they have to get through America before they can get to the Atlantic. I tell you, these arent no rag head amateurs either." And what was used when Putin started throwing his weight about? Economic sanctions have hit harder than any plane, electronic warfare has replaced bullets and tanks. | |||
"Up the minimum wage and people have more disposable income which means people will spend more which goes towards shops/businesses who will in turn buy more stock to supply to the masses who's manufacturers pay their employees the minimum wage which then pays for the items! I believe that's how the economy works. But I maybe wrong as I'm from a working class socialist background" Yep you are right. You are wrong. | |||
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"But when are they genuinely gonna be needed? I'm on the fence about this one. As long as we keep the ones we have, fine. No need to keep wasting all our money on new ones. Have you seen the size of Russias army? How about North Korea's? Their air forces are terrifying. The friction in Ukraine is worrying indeed (but that's been swept under the carpet again, thanks tory wankers). Both of those countries wont be attacking us via the Atlantic ocean. So, that's when we need it. Also, what happens when Japan goes to war with China? Who else kicks off? Again, they have to get through America before they can get to the Atlantic. I tell you, these arent no rag head amateurs either. And what was used when Putin started throwing his weight about? Economic sanctions have hit harder than any plane, electronic warfare has replaced bullets and tanks." In the short term. | |||
"Where is the money coming from to pay for all of this? Typical socialist pie in the sky bollox." Seems all very wise and reasonable to me.  | |||
"A rise in the minimum wage would fuel demands for wage rises across the board if it is a massive leap to £10 and would fuel inflation. It would also put firms out of business and make them move their business abroad." If I recall that's what the Tory party said when the minimum wage was introduced then britains economy boomed. | |||
"A rise in the minimum wage would fuel demands for wage rises across the board if it is a massive leap to £10 and would fuel inflation. It would also put firms out of business and make them move their business abroad. If I recall that's what the Tory party said when the minimum wage was introduced then britains economy boomed. " And spawned zero hours contracts. | |||
"Where is the money coming from to pay for all of this? Typical socialist pie in the sky bollox. Not bollox at all if you read it..people and companies have to buy into it though...lot of sense there...end all this im all right jack fuck the rest of you " As you said...companies have to buy into it...but they won't. They will simply vote with their feet and take the jobs with them. Global warming is exactly that....global. Policies in one country (uk) will simply make our energy costs uncompetitive and drive more companies away. I cannot argue with many of your principles....indeed it sounds like perfect communism. And as such is as doomed as ever. Sad but true I'm afraid. | |||
"Where is the money coming from to pay for all of this? Typical socialist pie in the sky bollox. Seems all very wise and reasonable to me. "Maybe you should read "Animal Farm" | |||
"Scrapping the armed forces is all very well until ISIS, or whatever their new name is this week, waltz through Turkey and are knocking on our door. Try dealing with those nutters with a focus group." Exactly my point. That's why I'm on the fence. I think we need our forces, we just don't need to keep spending money on new tech and warships. But ISIS are a disorganised incompetent rabble, compared to the disciplined Eastern armies and Eurasians. | |||
"PUBLIC OWNERSHIP, NOT PRIVATE PROFIT Stop all privatisation, including the Private Finance Initiative (PFI) and Public-Private Partnerships (PPP). Bring privatised public services and utilities back into public ownership under democratic control. NO CUTS - FOR QUALITY PUBLIC SERVICES Re-nationalise all rail, bus and ferry services to build an integrated, low-pollution public transport system. Take Royal Mail back into public ownership to guarantee our postal services. Bring prisons, probation, and all other parts of the justice system back into the public sector. For a high-quality, free National Health Service under democratic public ownership and control. Stop council estate sell-offs and build high-standard, eco-friendly, affordable council housing. No to academies and 'free schools'. Good, free education for all, under democratic local authority control; student grants not fees. JOBS, NOT HANDOUTS TO THE BANKERS AND BILLIONAIRES Bring banks and finance institutions into genuine public ownership under democratic control, instead of giving huge handouts to the very capitalists who caused the crisis. Tax the rich. For progressive tax on rich corporations and individuals and an end to tax avoidance. For massive investment in environmental projects. EMPLOYMENT AND TRADE UNION RIGHTS Repeal the anti-trade union laws. Support the TUC's demand to increase the minimum wage to £10 an hour, and for it then to rise in line with inflation or wages, whichever is higher. Scrap zero hour contracts. Guaranteed hours and full employment rights for all. Invest to create and protect jobs, including for young people. Solidarity with workers taking action to defend jobs, conditions, pensions, public services and trade unions. Reinstate full trade union rights to prison officers. PROTECT OUR ENVIRONMENT - STOP GLOBAL WARMING Deep cuts in greenhouse gas emissions - otherwise climate change, caused by capitalism, will destroy us. Invest in publicly-owned and controlled renewable energy. Move to sustainable, low-pollution industry and farming - stop the pollution that is destroying our environment. Produce for need, not profit, and design goods for reuse and recycling. DECENT PENSIONS AND BENEFITS Abolish the bedroom tax. Reverse cuts to benefits; for living benefits; end child poverty. Restore the pre-Thatcher real value of pensions. Reinstate the link with average earnings. STOP THE ATTACKS ON DISABLED PEOPLE Promote inclusive policies to enable disabled people to participate in, and have equal access to, education, employment, housing, transport and welfare provision. Support measures to ensure disabled people receive a level of income according to needs. Equal pay for equal work. DEMOCRACY, DIVERSITY AND JUSTICE Welcome diversity and oppose racism, fascism and discrimination. Defend the right to asylum, repeal the 2014 Immigration Act and all racist immigration controls. Ensure women have genuinely equal rights and pay. Full equality for LGBT people. Defend our liberties and make police and security democratically accountable. For the right to vote at 16. SOLIDARITY NOT WAR No to imperialist wars and occupations! Justice for the Palestinians, lift the siege of Gaza. No more spending on a new generation of nuclear weapons, huge aircraft carriers or irrelevant eurofighters - convert arms spending into socially useful products and services. An independent foreign policy, based on international solidarity - no more being a US poodle, no moves towards a capitalist, militarist United States of Europe. No to austerity and anti-working class policies, whether from the EU or Britain. SOCIALISM For a democratic socialist society run in the interests of people not millionaires. For bringing into democratic public ownership the major companies and banks that dominate the economy, so that production and services can be planned to meet the needs of all and to protect the environment." COMMUNISM. The world tried that and it failed. China is more capitalist than the west now and the very last bastion - Cuba is now passing seductive winks across the Gulf of Mexico. At 30, you are a baby and obviously do not remember the cold war era. Most who lived in the East and survived it said that Communism did remove the wealth from the top of society and just made sure it was then spread amongst an even smaller number of people. Good effort though. Must have taken you ages to write it... Unless you just copied and pasted from elsewhere????? | |||
"PUBLIC OWNERSHIP, NOT PRIVATE PROFIT Stop all privatisation, including the Private Finance Initiative (PFI) and Public-Private Partnerships (PPP). Bring privatised public services and utilities back into public ownership under democratic control. NO CUTS - FOR QUALITY PUBLIC SERVICES Re-nationalise all rail, bus and ferry services to build an integrated, low-pollution public transport system. Take Royal Mail back into public ownership to guarantee our postal services. Bring prisons, probation, and all other parts of the justice system back into the public sector. For a high-quality, free National Health Service under democratic public ownership and control. Stop council estate sell-offs and build high-standard, eco-friendly, affordable council housing. No to academies and 'free schools'. Good, free education for all, under democratic local authority control; student grants not fees. JOBS, NOT HANDOUTS TO THE BANKERS AND BILLIONAIRES Bring banks and finance institutions into genuine public ownership under democratic control, instead of giving huge handouts to the very capitalists who caused the crisis. Tax the rich. For progressive tax on rich corporations and individuals and an end to tax avoidance. For massive investment in environmental projects. EMPLOYMENT AND TRADE UNION RIGHTS Repeal the anti-trade union laws. Support the TUC's demand to increase the minimum wage to £10 an hour, and for it then to rise in line with inflation or wages, whichever is higher. Scrap zero hour contracts. Guaranteed hours and full employment rights for all. Invest to create and protect jobs, including for young people. Solidarity with workers taking action to defend jobs, conditions, pensions, public services and trade unions. Reinstate full trade union rights to prison officers. PROTECT OUR ENVIRONMENT - STOP GLOBAL WARMING Deep cuts in greenhouse gas emissions - otherwise climate change, caused by capitalism, will destroy us. Invest in publicly-owned and controlled renewable energy. Move to sustainable, low-pollution industry and farming - stop the pollution that is destroying our environment. Produce for need, not profit, and design goods for reuse and recycling. DECENT PENSIONS AND BENEFITS Abolish the bedroom tax. Reverse cuts to benefits; for living benefits; end child poverty. Restore the pre-Thatcher real value of pensions. Reinstate the link with average earnings. STOP THE ATTACKS ON DISABLED PEOPLE Promote inclusive policies to enable disabled people to participate in, and have equal access to, education, employment, housing, transport and welfare provision. Support measures to ensure disabled people receive a level of income according to needs. Equal pay for equal work. DEMOCRACY, DIVERSITY AND JUSTICE Welcome diversity and oppose racism, fascism and discrimination. Defend the right to asylum, repeal the 2014 Immigration Act and all racist immigration controls. Ensure women have genuinely equal rights and pay. Full equality for LGBT people. Defend our liberties and make police and security democratically accountable. For the right to vote at 16. SOLIDARITY NOT WAR No to imperialist wars and occupations! Justice for the Palestinians, lift the siege of Gaza. No more spending on a new generation of nuclear weapons, huge aircraft carriers or irrelevant eurofighters - convert arms spending into socially useful products and services. An independent foreign policy, based on international solidarity - no more being a US poodle, no moves towards a capitalist, militarist United States of Europe. No to austerity and anti-working class policies, whether from the EU or Britain. SOCIALISM For a democratic socialist society run in the interests of people not millionaires. For bringing into democratic public ownership the major companies and banks that dominate the economy, so that production and services can be planned to meet the needs of all and to protect the environment. COMMUNISM. The world tried that and it failed. China is more capitalist than the west now and the very last bastion - Cuba is now passing seductive winks across the Gulf of Mexico. At 30, you are a baby and obviously do not remember the cold war era. Most who lived in the East and survived it said that Communism did remove the wealth from the top of society and just made sure it was then spread amongst an even smaller number of people. Good effort though. Must have taken you ages to write it... Unless you just copied and pasted from elsewhere????? "Well said and very true. Living in Germany we know many who lived in the old East Germany (including family) Just ask any of them if they would like to go back to Communism. Just make sure you say it with a smile on your face as if you are joking, otherwise the answer could be a bit scary. | |||
"COMMUNISM. The world tried that and it failed. China is more capitalist than the west now and the very last bastion - Cuba is now passing seductive winks across the Gulf of Mexico. At 30, you are a baby and obviously do not remember the cold war era. Most who lived in the East and survived it said that Communism did remove the wealth from the top of society and just made sure it was then spread amongst an even smaller number of people. Good effort though. Must have taken you ages to write it... Unless you just copied and pasted from elsewhere?????" It's copied and pasted from their site. But. You talk about this era as if we're still in it. It's the 21st century. This is about taking money from the wealthy 1% and giving it back to the less wealthy 99%. What the entire occupy wall street movement was about..? Just because it's not capitalism, doesn't make it communism. | |||
"I'd renationalise the railways, at least by allowing the train operators to have their agreements close at expiry, or check out the contractual terms for other get outs. Otherwise much of the privatisation scheme has been a dreadful mistake in recent operating times, eg electricity and gas, plus trains. The East Coast service, run as a publicly owned and operated service turned in a great surplus. I'm not a proponent of all of the above, merely feeling that time has come to reinstate essential services to public ownership, for the public and environmental benefit." As someone who works for Network Rail and remembers the old days of BR's Managed Decline, for all the current faults on the railway, no thankyou. | |||
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" SOCIALISM " A system that works very well, so long as it has other people's money to prop it up. However, as soon as the money runs out............... | |||
"Society is already set up to take money from the 1%! How much income tax did you pay last year? Not 50% like they do on a few million pounds I'll guess. When you buy a 2nd hand car, how much VAT is on that. How much is on a £200,000 Ferrari! The same applies to everything they buy. How much stamp duty have you paid? How much do you think it is on a £5 or £10million house? They pay the most Council Tax, yet get the same services as you do, yet do not use many of them. " | |||
"Where is the money coming from to pay for all of this? Typical socialist pie in the sky bollox. Seems all very wise and reasonable to me.
Maybe you should read "Animal Farm"" | |||
" SOCIALISM A system that works very well, so long as it has other people's money to prop it up. However, as soon as the money runs out............... " As it very nearly did in 2008 | |||
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"COMMUNISM. The world tried that and it failed. China is more capitalist than the west now and the very last bastion - Cuba is now passing seductive winks across the Gulf of Mexico. At 30, you are a baby and obviously do not remember the cold war era. Most who lived in the East and survived it said that Communism did remove the wealth from the top of society and just made sure it was then spread amongst an even smaller number of people. Good effort though. Must have taken you ages to write it... Unless you just copied and pasted from elsewhere????? It's copied and pasted from their site. But. You talk about this era as if we're still in it. It's the 21st century. This is about taking money from the wealthy 1% and giving it back to the less wealthy 99%. What the entire occupy wall street movement was about..? Just because it's not capitalism, doesn't make it communism." I am in my 50's and as long as I have been alive there have always been highly motivated young guns looking and wanting to change. In my youth it was all about the SWP and how communism appeared to be much fairer than our horrible capitalist society. We flirted with socialism in the 1970's and our country was the basket case of Europe. The whole population on a three day week, electricity cuts, trains that just did not show up.. ever, the dead piling up in mortuarys, rubbish lying uncollected for weeks. Man has to be competitive for mankind to flourish. This is the law of nature and it means there are always going to be people who have more and people who have less. If as a society we adopted these rules in the UK, other countries and people would destroy us economically as they seek to get a competitive edge over us. To make the changes you want, you have to change the world and the population of the planet has to get on board to equality and no borders. We cant even change stuff in our own country never mind Europe and the world. It is a nice thought, but a deluded thought in a world that truly is uncaring, scary and tough. Life is not fair - but whoever that it should be? | |||
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"Am I supposed to feel sorry for them? Boo hoo, they must be wiping away their tears with £50 notes. Seriously. It's not just individuals – it's tax-evading corporations with there off-shore accounts. I couldn't care less about money if I'm honest but when the poverty line is thicker in first world countries than third world ones... You have to ask yourself if this a sustainable economic model after all." What right does any unskilled labourer have to earn more money and have a comfortable lifestyle in this country than in any other? This country was living well beyond its means in an economy that was already globalised. The correction came in 2008 and we all need to now live with the fact that if we want to earn more, we have to do what everyone else in the world does.. Work harder, for longer Better your skill set Be better at everything Get motivated Go to work, dont wait for work to come to you. Nobody in this or any other country should expect ANYTHING from any government be they red, yellow or blue. We are all responsible for the lives that we lead and we now live in a globalised economy. That won't change in our lifetime. | |||
"COMMUNISM. The world tried that and it failed. China is more capitalist than the west now and the very last bastion - Cuba is now passing seductive winks across the Gulf of Mexico. At 30, you are a baby and obviously do not remember the cold war era. Most who lived in the East and survived it said that Communism did remove the wealth from the top of society and just made sure it was then spread amongst an even smaller number of people. Good effort though. Must have taken you ages to write it... Unless you just copied and pasted from elsewhere????? It's copied and pasted from their site. But. You talk about this era as if we're still in it. It's the 21st century. This is about taking money from the wealthy 1% and giving it back to the less wealthy 99%. What the entire occupy wall street movement was about..? Just because it's not capitalism, doesn't make it communism. I am in my 50's and as long as I have been alive there have always been highly motivated young guns looking and wanting to change. In my youth it was all about the SWP and how communism appeared to be much fairer than our horrible capitalist society. We flirted with socialism in the 1970's and our country was the basket case of Europe. The whole population on a three day week, electricity cuts, trains that just did not show up.. ever, the dead piling up in mortuarys, rubbish lying uncollected for weeks. Man has to be competitive for mankind to flourish. This is the law of nature and it means there are always going to be people who have more and people who have less. If as a society we adopted these rules in the UK, other countries and people would destroy us economically as they seek to get a competitive edge over us. To make the changes you want, you have to change the world and the population of the planet has to get on board to equality and no borders. We cant even change stuff in our own country never mind Europe and the world. It is a nice thought, but a deluded thought in a world that truly is uncaring, scary and tough. Life is not fair - but whoever that it should be?" As someone of a similar age I concur. | |||
"Am I supposed to feel sorry for them? Boo hoo, they must be wiping away their tears with £50 notes. Seriously. It's not just individuals – it's tax-evading corporations with there off-shore accounts. I couldn't care less about money if I'm honest but when the poverty line is thicker in first world countries than third world ones... You have to ask yourself if this a sustainable economic model after all. What right does any unskilled labourer have to earn more money and have a comfortable lifestyle in this country than in any other? This country was living well beyond its means in an economy that was already globalised. The correction came in 2008 and we all need to now live with the fact that if we want to earn more, we have to do what everyone else in the world does.. Work harder, for longer Better your skill set Be better at everything Get motivated Go to work, dont wait for work to come to you. Nobody in this or any other country should expect ANYTHING from any government be they red, yellow or blue. We are all responsible for the lives that we lead and we now live in a globalised economy. That won't change in our lifetime."
Will you marry me | |||
"And there you have it. You are driven by spite. You will never close down every tax loophole or every tax haven in the world. That is how those small places(Monaco, Cayman Islands etc) survive. Do you think the rich cause world poverty? How does working hard, taking risks with your money, setting up businesses, employing people and then living in Monaco and spending a lot of money cause world poverty. Why should people who have worked hard and have money be told to give it to the lazy, the work-shy and the useless for them to waste? What what was the old maxim? That there were more satellite tv dishes on Council Estates than anywhere else." This. | |||
"Society is already set up to take money from the 1%! How much income tax did you pay last year? Not 50% like they do on a few million pounds I'll guess. When you buy a 2nd hand car, how much VAT is on that. How much is on a £200,000 Ferrari! The same applies to everything they buy. How much stamp duty have you paid? How much do you think it is on a £5 or £10million house? They pay the most Council Tax, yet get the same services as you do, yet do not use many of them. " Gary Barlow, Jimmy carr, Starbucks, Amazon. If the rich paid proper tax and didn't avoid paying it like the people who don't pay 45% then the poor rich folk wouldn't need to pay the 20% vat for the luxury sports car they so need to commute to work like the other millions of working class poor people do. | |||
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"And maybe if the tax rates were lower and the Government stopped handing out Jimmy Carr's tax money to scroungers or economic migrants, then he might be happy to pay it Your comment about Ferrari's and commuting simply proves your jealousy." Not at all I have a rather nice car that I paid for brand new and paid 20% vat on plus I have a works can which I commute to and from work with! And as for his tax going to scrounges he paid an accountant to dodge paying it so I doubt it effected him much | |||
"I am in my 50's and as long as I have been alive there have always been highly motivated young guns looking and wanting to change. In my youth it was all about the SWP and how communism appeared to be much fairer than our horrible capitalist society. We flirted with socialism in the 1970's and our country was the basket case of Europe. The whole population on a three day week, electricity cuts, trains that just did not show up.. ever, the dead piling up in mortuarys, rubbish lying uncollected for weeks. Man has to be competitive for mankind to flourish. This is the law of nature and it means there are always going to be people who have more and people who have less. If as a society we adopted these rules in the UK, other countries and people would destroy us economically as they seek to get a competitive edge over us. To make the changes you want, you have to change the world and the population of the planet has to get on board to equality and no borders. We cant even change stuff in our own country never mind Europe and the world. It is a nice thought, but a deluded thought in a world that truly is uncaring, scary and tough. Life is not fair - but whoever that it should be?" You are acting as if I'm saying people shouldn't work and aren't entitled to their earnings. All the citizens income means is that everybody getes £71 a week – including the rich. Thus eliminating the need for most welfare. In fact, you're so hooked up on the money side of it that you cant see any of the other benefits. The figures are balanced and frankly least of my concerns. These parties are entirely focused on the future and sustainability. I'm way more interested in changes to how our country is run, better laws in tune with the times. We are STILL using the precious system from the 1970's and it's barely changed 40 years on. It's dated, doesn't work with the pace of today and is only going to end up screwing us over in 20 years. Ten times worse than the "communism" solution could. "Do you think the rich cause world poverty? How does working hard, taking risks with your money, setting up businesses, employing people and then living in Monaco and spending a lot of money cause world poverty." It's as though you've forgotten about the mafia tax in italy. Plenty of places make a corrupt system work. You speak about taking risks but refuse to break from the safety net of our "big three" political parties; all of which are proven first-hand to cripple our public services, etc. Further stretching the poverty line, reducing the value of a skilled workers. It might have worked last century but we're 15% through this century already. Things can't stay like this forever. Developing nations are rising up and competing in ways previously unseen. Because they follow new policies adapted to the times. They will leave us in the dust in just a couple of decades at this rate. | |||
"But when are they genuinely gonna be needed? I'm on the fence about this one. As long as we keep the ones we have, fine. No need to keep wasting all our money on new ones. Have you seen the size of Russias army? How about North Korea's? Their air forces are terrifying. The friction in Ukraine is worrying indeed (but that's been swept under the carpet again, thanks tory wankers). Both of those countries wont be attacking us via the Atlantic ocean. So, that's when we need it. Also, what happens when Japan goes to war with China? Who else kicks off? Again, they have to get through America before they can get to the Atlantic. I tell you, these arent no rag head amateurs either. And what was used when Putin started throwing his weight about? Economic sanctions have hit harder than any plane, electronic warfare has replaced bullets and tanks." Economic sanctions stifle the problem but do not resolve it. Equally, the use of sanctions hurt the people they are supposed to protect. And you are very naive to think that Cyber warfare has replaced boots on the ground. You can use your mouse to cripple a country economically, interfere with its infrastructure and wipe out its finances. However, ctrl +alt +del is not going to stop a Russian motor rifle brigade smashing through Ukraine. Too many sessions on COD? | |||
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"Up the minimum wage and people have more disposable income which means people will spend more which goes towards shops/businesses who will in turn buy more stock to supply to the masses who's manufacturers pay their employees the minimum wage which then pays for the items! I believe that's how the economy works. But I maybe wrong as I'm from a working class socialist background" That is the bases of that section of the policy, yes. And for those who say it can't be done, look up 'socialist alternative Seattle'. Where the mayor who was elected last year under the $15 campaign has an incredible approval rating. Plus there is proof that a rise in a minimum wage to a point where ppl are lift out of government help to top up wages is a good thing | |||
" Some of it is common sense, all very well having all these ideas, but where do they show how they are going to achieve all this, or even some of it? Nationalise banks? Which banks? Lots of them are foreign owned, I don't see those countries allowing this without some form of compensation, same goes for the utilities and train companies, some have invested billions in upgrading etc. Much like the Lib Dems, they can promise the world to the voters, knowing they will never have to keep the promise. Massive change in politics is most definitely needed." The railways are already subsidised by the tax payer to £4M a year though the profits are privatised.. We wait until the contracts expire and take them back under state control. Same with NHS etc. We nationalised the bank debts but again the profits are private. Would love to say fuck em but we would pay compensation on proven need. And the same with the utilities "I see the op is thirty..too young to remember the unmitigated inertia that characterised previous state ownership...utopian solutions are well meant disasters." I may be only thirty and not remember the previous state ownership. but how does that effect my ability to think reasonably and come to the conclusion that re-nationalization is the answer. "And what was used when Putin started throwing his weight about? Economic sanctions have hit harder than any plane, electronic warfare has replaced bullets and tanks." the unfortunate thing about the sanctions against Russia is that they aren't really hurting Russia. Germany has been feeling more of the brunt as they are exported a huge quantity to Russia. Plus Russia happens to be one of the few larger countries that have a massive financial reserve $300+ billion | |||
"Where is the money coming from to pay for all of this? Typical socialist pie in the sky bollox. Not bollox at all if you read it..people and companies have to buy into it though...lot of sense there...end all this im all right jack fuck the rest of you As you said...companies have to buy into it...but they won't. They will simply vote with their feet and take the jobs with them. Global warming is exactly that....global. Policies in one country (uk) will simply make our energy costs uncompetitive and drive more companies away. I cannot argue with many of your principles....indeed it sounds like perfect communism. And as such is as doomed as ever. Sad but true I'm afraid." We are talking about social democracy. not a single party state, which is how a communist system works | |||
"Society is already set up to take money from the 1%! How much income tax did you pay last year? Not 50% like they do on a few million pounds I'll guess. When you buy a 2nd hand car, how much VAT is on that. How much is on a £200,000 Ferrari! The same applies to everything they buy. How much stamp duty have you paid? How much do you think it is on a £5 or £10million house? They pay the most Council Tax, yet get the same services as you do, yet do not use many of them. " Holy naïvety, Batman. | |||
" Some of it is common sense, all very well having all these ideas, but where do they show how they are going to achieve all this, or even some of it? Nationalise banks? Which banks? Lots of them are foreign owned, I don't see those countries allowing this without some form of compensation, same goes for the utilities and train companies, some have invested billions in upgrading etc. Much like the Lib Dems, they can promise the world to the voters, knowing they will never have to keep the promise. Massive change in politics is most definitely needed. The railways are already subsidised by the tax payer to £4M a year though the profits are privatised.. We wait until the contracts expire and take them back under state control. Same with NHS etc. We nationalised the bank debts but again the profits are private. Would love to say fuck em but we would pay compensation on proven need. And the same with the utilities I see the op is thirty..too young to remember the unmitigated inertia that characterised previous state ownership...utopian solutions are well meant disasters. I may be only thirty and not remember the previous state ownership. but how does that effect my ability to think reasonably and come to the conclusion that re-nationalization is the answer. And what was used when Putin started throwing his weight about? Economic sanctions have hit harder than any plane, electronic warfare has replaced bullets and tanks. the unfortunate thing about the sanctions against Russia is that they aren't really hurting Russia. Germany has been feeling more of the brunt as they are exported a huge quantity to Russia. Plus Russia happens to be one of the few larger countries that have a massive financial reserve $300+ billion " Ask a Russian -almost any Russian if their life is good. | |||
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" Some of it is common sense, all very well having all these ideas, but where do they show how they are going to achieve all this, or even some of it? Nationalise banks? Which banks? Lots of them are foreign owned, I don't see those countries allowing this without some form of compensation, same goes for the utilities and train companies, some have invested billions in upgrading etc. Much like the Lib Dems, they can promise the world to the voters, knowing they will never have to keep the promise. Massive change in politics is most definitely needed. The railways are already subsidised by the tax payer to £4M a year though the profits are privatised.. We wait until the contracts expire and take them back under state control. Same with NHS etc. We nationalised the bank debts but again the profits are private. Would love to say fuck em but we would pay compensation on proven need. And the same with the utilities I see the op is thirty..too young to remember the unmitigated inertia that characterised previous state ownership...utopian solutions are well meant disasters. I may be only thirty and not remember the previous state ownership. but how does that effect my ability to think reasonably and come to the conclusion that re-nationalization is the answer. And what was used when Putin started throwing his weight about? Economic sanctions have hit harder than any plane, electronic warfare has replaced bullets and tanks. the unfortunate thing about the sanctions against Russia is that they aren't really hurting Russia. Germany has been feeling more of the brunt as they are exported a huge quantity to Russia. Plus Russia happens to be one of the few larger countries that have a massive financial reserve $300+ billion Ask a Russian -almost any Russian if their life is good. " And they'll say yes. | |||
" Some of it is common sense, all very well having all these ideas, but where do they show how they are going to achieve all this, or even some of it? Nationalise banks? Which banks? Lots of them are foreign owned, I don't see those countries allowing this without some form of compensation, same goes for the utilities and train companies, some have invested billions in upgrading etc. Much like the Lib Dems, they can promise the world to the voters, knowing they will never have to keep the promise. Massive change in politics is most definitely needed. The railways are already subsidised by the tax payer to £4M a year though the profits are privatised.. We wait until the contracts expire and take them back under state control. Same with NHS etc. We nationalised the bank debts but again the profits are private. Would love to say fuck em but we would pay compensation on proven need. And the same with the utilities I see the op is thirty..too young to remember the unmitigated inertia that characterised previous state ownership...utopian solutions are well meant disasters. I may be only thirty and not remember the previous state ownership. but how does that effect my ability to think reasonably and come to the conclusion that re-nationalization is the answer. And what was used when Putin started throwing his weight about? Economic sanctions have hit harder than any plane, electronic warfare has replaced bullets and tanks. the unfortunate thing about the sanctions against Russia is that they aren't really hurting Russia. Germany has been feeling more of the brunt as they are exported a huge quantity to Russia. Plus Russia happens to be one of the few larger countries that have a massive financial reserve $300+ billion Ask a Russian -almost any Russian if their life is good. And they'll say yes." Ha ha.. You have to be joking. My wife is Russian and we have a large circle of Russian friends here in the UK and on Russia. You have no concept of what a lack trust means unless you have lived in a place like Russia. Britain was the laughing stock of Russia during the expenses scandal. It was a National joke that politicians were getting into trouble over a few thousand dollars. Russian politicians become politicians for the abilitity to embezzle millions, if not billions of dollars. | |||
"i think the question we all need to ask is, are we all prepared to allow 5 more years of austerity measures. council and national budget reductions and increases in council tax. over the past 5 years, the CON'D parliament have introduced only 40% of the cuts proposed... can we really afford another 60%, i know i cant. and even if the next government is lead by Mr Millerband, Labour have pledged that they will continue permanent austerit measures, until we hit that surplus. But at what cost, I don't see energy companies making it easier for us to pay our bill. And almost every Conservative and Lid Dem MP voted to NOT make them pass on the wholesale savings of gas price to the end customer last week It is unlikely that a government is going to be made up of one single majority party, which leave us all with a choice of a Conservative and most likely UKIP followed government, or a Labour lead and more than likely Green and other more left parties alliance. " Interesting. Why can you personally not afford five more years of cuts? How can it be anything but common sense to cut your family expenditure? The country is just like your family on a grander scale income should always be greater than expenditure and it is normal and sensible prudence to limit your expenditure. I am completely at a loss as to why an individual of working age would feel that they can't afford cuts to government departments that are bloated with ineffeciency. | |||
A | |||
"Privatisation = short term gain to government and fat cat owners who make profit from the masses who pump money back into the parties that made them rich in the first place" Nationalisation = Long-term pain for government and fat cat managers who take large salaries at the expense of the masses whose tax money has to constantly pumped back into those industries just to keep them going instead of being spent on public services. Brilliant idea, I wonder why no where else in the world isn't doing it. | |||
"I guess if you have to ask why change is needed, it must mean you are happy with the current lot of lying,cheating, conniving, corrupt, self centred, self aggrandising puppets we have as MP's." Are they? I don't know any self centred MPs personally. Do you, personally, not just some media story? | |||
"Lol. There is no change, which is why we need change. Every government I can think of, no matter where in the world, is corrupt to some degree in one way or another." Every person I know in the world is corrupt to some degree in one way or another. Where do you plan on getting these new totally uncorrupted and incorruptible people from?? | |||
"Oh gosh... Here we go. The oppositon. Luddites. People so afraid of change that they bad-mouth it, actively deny it could happen and act like everything's ok. Good luck syddraf & co. Got your work cut out here
Wake up people. You're being lied to by your state on a daily basis. Who knew that oil went cheap because ISIS are selling oil for $20 a barrel? No? Because it wasn't on the news. The current government is FULL of crap and lies to us, so that the brainwashed masses think everything is ok on their minimum wage, welfare income and feel helpless - due to all "current affairs" taking palce abroad. UKIP set alarm bells ringing but thankfully we had terrorist attacks and disasters to take our mind of our own countries problems. Allowing the rich get richer while the poor get poorer. THIS is EXACTLY why we need CHANGE."If you're talking about the UK then you should be aware that over the last 5 years the average wealth of the top 10% of earners has fallen while the average wealth of the bottom 10% of earners had gone up. Surprised! I was to but go check it out yourself. If you are talking about the world then you should also be aware that YOU are part if the 20% that owns 80% of the worlds wealth. Before you tell or ask others to redistribute their wealth how much of yours are you willing to redistribute? | |||
"Oh gosh... Here we go. The oppositon. Luddites. People so afraid of change that they bad-mouth it, actively deny it could happen and act like everything's ok. Good luck syddraf & co. Got your work cut out here
Wake up people. You're being lied to by your state on a daily basis. Who knew that oil went cheap because ISIS are selling oil for $20 a barrel? No? Because it wasn't on the news. The current government is FULL of crap and lies to us, so that the brainwashed masses think everything is ok on their minimum wage, welfare income and feel helpless - due to all "current affairs" taking palce abroad. UKIP set alarm bells ringing but thankfully we had terrorist attacks and disasters to take our mind of our own countries problems. Allowing the rich get richer while the poor get poorer. THIS is EXACTLY why we need CHANGE."If you're talking about the UK then you should be aware that over the last 5 years the average wealth of the top 10% of earners has fallen while the average wealth of the bottom 10% of earners has gone up. Surprised! I was to but go check it out yourself. If you are talking about the world then you should also be aware that YOU are part if the 20% that owns 80% of the worlds wealth. Before you tell or ask others to redistribute their wealth how much of yours are you willing to redistribute? | |||
"Euro fighters are only irrelevant until we need them. And I for one am thankful we have them. What do you suggest as a replacement rhetoric and a focus group? But when are they genuinely gonna be needed?" Hopefully never. That's the reason why we have them. | |||
"Before you tell or ask others to redistribute their wealth how much of yours are you willing to redistribute?" More than happy to; as much as it takes. Provided you can guarantee world peace  | |||
" Some of it is common sense, all very well having all these ideas, but where do they show how they are going to achieve all this, or even some of it? Nationalise banks? Which banks? Lots of them are foreign owned, I don't see those countries allowing this without some form of compensation, same goes for the utilities and train companies, some have invested billions in upgrading etc. Much like the Lib Dems, they can promise the world to the voters, knowing they will never have to keep the promise. Massive change in politics is most definitely needed. The railways are already subsidised by the tax payer to £4M a year though the profits are privatised.. We wait until the contracts expire and take them back under state control. Same with NHS etc. We nationalised the bank debts but again the profits are private. Would love to say fuck em but we would pay compensation on proven need. And the same with the utilities I see the op is thirty..too young to remember the unmitigated inertia that characterised previous state ownership...utopian solutions are well meant disasters. I may be only thirty and not remember the previous state ownership. but how does that effect my ability to think reasonably and come to the conclusion that re-nationalization is the answer. And what was used when Putin started throwing his weight about? Economic sanctions have hit harder than any plane, electronic warfare has replaced bullets and tanks. the unfortunate thing about the sanctions against Russia is that they aren't really hurting Russia. Germany has been feeling more of the brunt as they are exported a huge quantity to Russia. Plus Russia happens to be one of the few larger countries that have a massive financial reserve $300+ billion Ask a Russian -almost any Russian if their life is good. And they'll say yes. Ha ha.. You have to be joking. My wife is Russian and we have a large circle of Russian friends here in the UK and on Russia. You have no concept of what a lack trust means unless you have lived in a place like Russia. Britain was the laughing stock of Russia during the expenses scandal. It was a National joke that politicians were getting into trouble over a few thousand dollars. Russian politicians become politicians for the abilitity to embezzle millions, if not billions of dollars." The vast majority of Russians, living in Russia, think their life is good because they know no better and have experienced little else. | |||
"Up the minimum wage and people have more disposable income which means people will spend more which goes towards shops/businesses who will in turn buy more stock to supply to the masses who's manufacturers pay their employees the minimum wage which then pays for the items! I believe that's how the economy works. But I maybe wrong as I'm from a working class socialist background" There is a certain amount of truth in that but it's not quite that simple. However a low wage economy is seldom a successful one either. Companies need customers with money to make profits. | |||
"Up the minimum wage and people have more disposable income which means people will spend more which goes towards shops/businesses who will in turn buy more stock to supply to the masses who's manufacturers pay their employees the minimum wage which then pays for the items! I believe that's how the economy works. But I maybe wrong as I'm from a working class socialist background There is a certain amount of truth in that but it's not quite that simple. However a low wage economy is seldom a successful one either. Companies need customers with money to make profits." I can't but feel that any immediate increase in income will be spent paying off/ down debt. | |||
" If you're talking about the UK then you should be aware that over the last 5 years the average wealth of the top 10% of earners has fallen while the average wealth of the bottom 10% of earners has gone up. Surprised! I was to but go check it out yourself. " Be easier if you added link wouldn't it? | |||
"And maybe if the tax rates were lower and the Government stopped handing out Jimmy Carr's tax money to scroungers or economic migrants, then he might be happy to pay it Your comment about Ferrari's and commuting simply proves your jealousy. Not at all I have a rather nice car that I paid for brand new and paid 20% vat on plus I have a works can which I commute to and from work with! And as for his tax going to scrounges he paid an accountant to dodge paying it so I doubt it effected him much " Do YOU pay more tax than you legally have to? If the answer is no then you are avoiding paying tax. That's what tax avoidance is, not paying any more tax than you legally have to. | |||
"However a low wage economy is seldom a successful one either. Companies need customers with money to make profits." Ahh, the perfect source: http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=CPL This link indicates the true value of your money compared to the rest of the world. See how we fall behind some of the places with the highest cost of living (Australia, Denmark, Switzerland)? Yet those economies are far more successful and the people still take home way more, after tax. In fact, Denmark offers completely free education, free healthcare and anyone over 18 gets a salary for studying. Yet they are still earning more, taking home more and ultimately spending more. They are NOT poorer due to price hikes, or running out of money. That stuff is exclusive to our greedy capitilast governments you idiots keep voting into the towers. | |||
"Tax dodging millionaires. Lazy, workshy, benefit scrounges playing the system. Both great rhetoric in the press. Neither occur in numbers large enough to have a significant impact on the UK's economy. Yet both seem to be daily themes in the forums!
A"
So true | |||
"Before you tell or ask others to redistribute their wealth how much of yours are you willing to redistribute? More than happy to; as much as it takes. Provided you can guarantee world peace "So that's a no then. | |||
" If you're talking about the UK then you should be aware that over the last 5 years the average wealth of the top 10% of earners has fallen while the average wealth of the bottom 10% of earners has gone up. Surprised! I was to but go check it out yourself. Be easier if you added link wouldn't it?" It would be and when I re find it I may well but that doesn't stop you looking for yourself. | |||
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"However a low wage economy is seldom a successful one either. Companies need customers with money to make profits. Ahh, the perfect source: http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=CPL This link indicates the true value of your money compared to the rest of the world. See how we fall behind some of the places with the highest cost of living (Australia, Denmark, Switzerland)? Yet those economies are far more successful and the people still take home way more, after tax. In fact, Denmark offers completely free education, free healthcare and anyone over 18 gets a salary for studying. Yet they are still earning more, taking home more and ultimately spending more. They are NOT poorer due to price hikes, or running out of money. That stuff is exclusive to our greedy capitilast governments you idiots keep voting into the towers." I think you'll find Denmark qualifies as a capitalist country not a socialist country. The right balance between social democracy and capitalism is what they seem to have. Although many in Denmark, from both the right and left, would like to see it move more one way or the other. And you don't have to convince me of the disadvantages of a low wage/income society, I've already made that point myself. Unfortunately socialist societies tend to be much better at producing those low wage/income societies. | |||
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"PUBLIC OWNERSHIP, NOT PRIVATE PROFIT Stop all privatisation, including the Private Finance Initiative (PFI) and Public-Private Partnerships (PPP). Bring privatised public services and utilities back into public ownership under democratic control. NO CUTS - FOR QUALITY PUBLIC SERVICES Re-nationalise all rail, bus and ferry services to build an integrated, low-pollution public transport system. Take Royal Mail back into public ownership to guarantee our postal services. Bring prisons, probation, and all other parts of the justice system back into the public sector. For a high-quality, free National Health Service under democratic public ownership and control. Stop council estate sell-offs and build high-standard, eco-friendly, affordable council housing. No to academies and 'free schools'. Good, free education for all, under democratic local authority control; student grants not fees. JOBS, NOT HANDOUTS TO THE BANKERS AND BILLIONAIRES Bring banks and finance institutions into genuine public ownership under democratic control, instead of giving huge handouts to the very capitalists who caused the crisis. Tax the rich. For progressive tax on rich corporations and individuals and an end to tax avoidance. For massive investment in environmental projects. EMPLOYMENT AND TRADE UNION RIGHTS Repeal the anti-trade union laws. Support the TUC's demand to increase the minimum wage to £10 an hour, and for it then to rise in line with inflation or wages, whichever is higher. Scrap zero hour contracts. Guaranteed hours and full employment rights for all. Invest to create and protect jobs, including for young people. Solidarity with workers taking action to defend jobs, conditions, pensions, public services and trade unions. Reinstate full trade union rights to prison officers. PROTECT OUR ENVIRONMENT - STOP GLOBAL WARMING Deep cuts in greenhouse gas emissions - otherwise climate change, caused by capitalism, will destroy us. Invest in publicly-owned and controlled renewable energy. Move to sustainable, low-pollution industry and farming - stop the pollution that is destroying our environment. Produce for need, not profit, and design goods for reuse and recycling. DECENT PENSIONS AND BENEFITS Abolish the bedroom tax. Reverse cuts to benefits; for living benefits; end child poverty. Restore the pre-Thatcher real value of pensions. Reinstate the link with average earnings. STOP THE ATTACKS ON DISABLED PEOPLE Promote inclusive policies to enable disabled people to participate in, and have equal access to, education, employment, housing, transport and welfare provision. Support measures to ensure disabled people receive a level of income according to needs. Equal pay for equal work. DEMOCRACY, DIVERSITY AND JUSTICE Welcome diversity and oppose racism, fascism and discrimination. Defend the right to asylum, repeal the 2014 Immigration Act and all racist immigration controls. Ensure women have genuinely equal rights and pay. Full equality for LGBT people. Defend our liberties and make police and security democratically accountable. For the right to vote at 16. SOLIDARITY NOT WAR No to imperialist wars and occupations! Justice for the Palestinians, lift the siege of Gaza. No more spending on a new generation of nuclear weapons, huge aircraft carriers or irrelevant eurofighters - convert arms spending into socially useful products and services. An independent foreign policy, based on international solidarity - no more being a US poodle, no moves towards a capitalist, militarist United States of Europe. No to austerity and anti-working class policies, whether from the EU or Britain. SOCIALISM For a democratic socialist society run in the interests of people not millionaires. For bringing into democratic public ownership the major companies and banks that dominate the economy, so that production and services can be planned to meet the needs of all and to protect the environment." | |||
"Lol. There is no change, which is why we need change. Every government I can think of, no matter where in the world, is corrupt to some degree in one way or another. Every person I know in the world is corrupt to some degree in one way or another. Where do you plan on getting these new totally uncorrupted and incorruptible people from??" No one is infallible, that is true. But we can only lessen the desire to some extent. Any MP or local councillors elected will only take a wage of equal to the average skilled worker. I'm not sure if that a national average, or based on the area the represent. But it will be a fair leap down from £80+k that MPs currently take for just being a MP. They will also only claim completely necessary expenses.. not things like £36 for breakfast, like IDS a couple weeks back. All elected councillors will oppose cuts handed down from central government. The more councillors per council, the easier that will be. They will draw up a needs budget and any shortfall in funds will be demanded from central government. That is pretty much all I know atm. Lol | |||
"Up the minimum wage and people have more disposable income which means people will spend more which goes towards shops/businesses who will in turn buy more stock to supply to the masses who's manufacturers pay their employees the minimum wage which then pays for the items! I believe that's how the economy works. But I maybe wrong as I'm from a working class socialist background There is a certain amount of truth in that but it's not quite that simple. However a low wage economy is seldom a successful one either. Companies need customers with money to make profits." The part that is missing is: Increase the minimum wage by over £3 an hour, increase the staff costs, reduce the profit margin, reduce the economic viability of producing some products. | |||
"Where is the money coming from to pay for all of this? Typical socialist pie in the sky bollox." here here. These people make laugh. | |||
"And maybe if the tax rates were lower and the Government stopped handing out Jimmy Carr's tax money to scroungers or economic migrants, then he might be happy to pay it Your comment about Ferrari's and commuting simply proves your jealousy. Not at all I have a rather nice car that I paid for brand new and paid 20% vat on plus I have a works can which I commute to and from work with! And as for his tax going to scrounges he paid an accountant to dodge paying it so I doubt it effected him much Do YOU pay more tax than you legally have to? If the answer is no then you are avoiding paying tax. That's what tax avoidance is, not paying any more tax than you legally have to." I have paid my tax accordingly, in the past I have paid over but rely on a system to pay it back to me and also inform me if I've underpaid any | |||
"Up the minimum wage and people have more disposable income which means people will spend more which goes towards shops/businesses who will in turn buy more stock to supply to the masses who's manufacturers pay their employees the minimum wage which then pays for the items! I believe that's how the economy works. But I maybe wrong as I'm from a working class socialist background There is a certain amount of truth in that but it's not quite that simple. However a low wage economy is seldom a successful one either. Companies need customers with money to make profits. The part that is missing is: Increase the minimum wage by over £3 an hour, increase the staff costs, reduce the profit margin, reduce the economic viability of producing some products." Maybe there are too many companies producing the same or very similar products already. | |||
"PUBLIC OWNERSHIP, NOT PRIVATE PROFIT Stop all privatisation, including the Private Finance Initiative (PFI) and Public-Private Partnerships (PPP). Bring privatised public services and utilities back into public ownership under democratic control. NO CUTS - FOR QUALITY PUBLIC SERVICES Re-nationalise all rail, bus and ferry services to build an integrated, low-pollution public transport system. Take Royal Mail back into public ownership to guarantee our postal services. Bring prisons, probation, and all other parts of the justice system back into the public sector. For a high-quality, free National Health Service under democratic public ownership and control. Stop council estate sell-offs and build high-standard, eco-friendly, affordable council housing. No to academies and 'free schools'. Good, free education for all, under democratic local authority control; student grants not fees. JOBS, NOT HANDOUTS TO THE BANKERS AND BILLIONAIRES Bring banks and finance institutions into genuine public ownership under democratic control, instead of giving huge handouts to the very capitalists who caused the crisis. Tax the rich. For progressive tax on rich corporations and individuals and an end to tax avoidance. For massive investment in environmental projects. EMPLOYMENT AND TRADE UNION RIGHTS Repeal the anti-trade union laws. Support the TUC's demand to increase the minimum wage to £10 an hour, and for it then to rise in line with inflation or wages, whichever is higher. Scrap zero hour contracts. Guaranteed hours and full employment rights for all. Invest to create and protect jobs, including for young people. Solidarity with workers taking action to defend jobs, conditions, pensions, public services and trade unions. Reinstate full trade union rights to prison officers. PROTECT OUR ENVIRONMENT - STOP GLOBAL WARMING Deep cuts in greenhouse gas emissions - otherwise climate change, caused by capitalism, will destroy us. Invest in publicly-owned and controlled renewable energy. Move to sustainable, low-pollution industry and farming - stop the pollution that is destroying our environment. Produce for need, not profit, and design goods for reuse and recycling. DECENT PENSIONS AND BENEFITS Abolish the bedroom tax. Reverse cuts to benefits; for living benefits; end child poverty. Restore the pre-Thatcher real value of pensions. Reinstate the link with average earnings. STOP THE ATTACKS ON DISABLED PEOPLE Promote inclusive policies to enable disabled people to participate in, and have equal access to, education, employment, housing, transport and welfare provision. Support measures to ensure disabled people receive a level of income according to needs. Equal pay for equal work. DEMOCRACY, DIVERSITY AND JUSTICE Welcome diversity and oppose racism, fascism and discrimination. Defend the right to asylum, repeal the 2014 Immigration Act and all racist immigration controls. Ensure women have genuinely equal rights and pay. Full equality for LGBT people. Defend our liberties and make police and security democratically accountable. For the right to vote at 16. SOLIDARITY NOT WAR No to imperialist wars and occupations! Justice for the Palestinians, lift the siege of Gaza. No more spending on a new generation of nuclear weapons, huge aircraft carriers or irrelevant eurofighters - convert arms spending into socially useful products and services. An independent foreign policy, based on international solidarity - no more being a US poodle, no moves towards a capitalist, militarist United States of Europe. No to austerity and anti-working class policies, whether from the EU or Britain. SOCIALISM For a democratic socialist society run in the interests of people not millionaires. For bringing into democratic public ownership the major companies and banks that dominate the economy, so that production and services can be planned to meet the needs of all and to protect the environment. Complete drivel the lot of it. I wouldn't mind so much if any of it was new. It has all been tried before and failed. Here are a few examples of how the above would also fail NO CUTS - FOR QUALITY PUBLIC SERVICES. Great soundbite and in principle a great idea. However under "employment and trade union rights" it says "increase the minimum wage to £10 an hour" Try putting the two together then doing some maths. Bankers bonuses will pay for it you may say. Of course they will, for maybe a month or two, then what? "Tax the rich" OK let's run with that one for a moment. Oops I forgot we can't because living in a global economy they can all just up sticks and live in a more friendly jurisdiction. So Luxembourg, for example, will get some tax and Britain will get, er, nothing. That sounds like a super way of generating more tax income. Just ask the French, their new 75% tax band actually produced less tax than the old lower rate. That's why they've just scrapped it. "Progressive tax on rich corporations and individuals and an end to tax avoidance. For massive investment in environmental projects" See above, but I would add that these "rich corporations" are mostly owned by you and me, through our pension funds. So let's tax them to the hilt and the ones that hang around can stop paying dividends and your pension company can stop paying you. To be honest rather than wasting time taking the rest of it point by point I think the whole lot of it would pretty much turn Britain into North Korea's poor relation. " amen !!! | |||
"Up the minimum wage and people have more disposable income which means people will spend more which goes towards shops/businesses who will in turn buy more stock to supply to the masses who's manufacturers pay their employees the minimum wage which then pays for the items! I believe that's how the economy works. But I maybe wrong as I'm from a working class socialist background There is a certain amount of truth in that but it's not quite that simple. However a low wage economy is seldom a successful one either. Companies need customers with money to make profits. The part that is missing is: Increase the minimum wage by over £3 an hour, increase the staff costs, reduce the profit margin, reduce the economic viability of producing some products. Maybe there are too many companies producing the same or very similar products already." It's called competition. As opposed to state owned monopolies that produce one overpriced, shoddy product that you have to wait for ever to get. | |||
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"Joseph Rowntree Foundation revealed the changing picture of poverty in the UK with the launch of its annual report Monitoring Poverty and Social Exclusion written by the New Policy Institute (NPI). This is the most up-to-date and comprehensive guide to the state of the nation ahead of the General Election in 2015 – the definitive story of how the UK’s economic recovery is affecting people in poverty. It shows a dramatic change in who is most at risk of poverty compared to 10 years ago. It highlights: • A big rise in the proportion of adults under 25 in poverty, and a big fall among the over 75's. • More people in poverty living in working families - meaning as many are now in working families as workless ones). •More people in poverty living in private rented housing - meaning as many are now in private as social rented accommodation. •The labour market has changed significantly in the last ten years: there has been a vast increase in insecure work – zero hours contracts, part time work and low-paid self-employment, which means that getting a job does not necessarily mean getting out of poverty. The report shows: •Two thirds of people who moved from unemployment into work in the last year are paid below the Living Wage. •The long term prospects for people in low paid work are not good either: only a fifth of low paid employees have left low paid work completely 10 years later. •The average self-employed person earns 13% less than they did five years ago. •There are around 1.4m contracts not guaranteeing a minimum number of hours, and over half are in the lower-paying food, accommodation, retail and admin sectors. There is some welcome news: for example, there has been a vast reduction in pensioner poverty (which is now at the lowest on record) and the employment rate in the UK is close to its historic high. However: •Incomes are lower on average than a decade ago and the worst off have seen the biggest falls – nearly 10% lower than a decade ago. •Average wages for men working full time (in real terms) have dropped from £13.90 to £12.90 per hour between 2008 and 2013. •For women (whose employment rate has never been higher) wages fell from £10.80 per hour to £10.30 in the same period (indicator 25B). •For the lowest paid quarter of men, hourly pay fell by 70p per hour; for women, 40p per hour (indicator 25B). The report highlights the way the housing market has had a negative impact on people in poverty. There is not enough social housing, which means more people in poverty are living with insecure tenancies in the private rented sector. •The number of private landlord repossessions is now higher than the number of mortgage repossessions (17,000 compared to 15,000 in 2013/14). •The end of a private rented sector tenancy is now the most common cause of homelessness. •The number of Housing Benefit claimants has risen by over a million in the last 10 years, and despite an overall drop in the number of claimants in the last year, there was an increase in working people claiming Housing Benefit and the average amount they claim is rising." thanks for posting this.. no doubt some will applaud it but its sad reading.. link in the rise in the fortunes of the super rich, tax avoidance and its looking pretty tough out there for some .. all in it together eh.. | |||
"I guess if you have to ask why change is needed, it must mean you are happy with the current lot of lying,cheating, conniving, corrupt, self centred, self aggrandising puppets we have as MP's." | |||
"Joseph Rowntree Foundation revealed the changing picture of poverty in the UK with the launch of its annual report Monitoring Poverty and Social Exclusion written by the New Policy Institute (NPI). This is the most up-to-date and comprehensive guide to the state of the nation ahead of the General Election in 2015 – the definitive story of how the UK’s economic recovery is affecting people in poverty. It shows a dramatic change in who is most at risk of poverty compared to 10 years ago. It highlights: • A big rise in the proportion of adults under 25 in poverty, and a big fall among the over 75's. • More people in poverty living in working families - meaning as many are now in working families as workless ones). •More people in poverty living in private rented housing - meaning as many are now in private as social rented accommodation. •The labour market has changed significantly in the last ten years: there has been a vast increase in insecure work – zero hours contracts, part time work and low-paid self-employment, which means that getting a job does not necessarily mean getting out of poverty. The report shows: •Two thirds of people who moved from unemployment into work in the last year are paid below the Living Wage. •The long term prospects for people in low paid work are not good either: only a fifth of low paid employees have left low paid work completely 10 years later. •The average self-employed person earns 13% less than they did five years ago. •There are around 1.4m contracts not guaranteeing a minimum number of hours, and over half are in the lower-paying food, accommodation, retail and admin sectors. There is some welcome news: for example, there has been a vast reduction in pensioner poverty (which is now at the lowest on record) and the employment rate in the UK is close to its historic high. However: •Incomes are lower on average than a decade ago and the worst off have seen the biggest falls – nearly 10% lower than a decade ago. •Average wages for men working full time (in real terms) have dropped from £13.90 to £12.90 per hour between 2008 and 2013. •For women (whose employment rate has never been higher) wages fell from £10.80 per hour to £10.30 in the same period (indicator 25B). •For the lowest paid quarter of men, hourly pay fell by 70p per hour; for women, 40p per hour (indicator 25B). The report highlights the way the housing market has had a negative impact on people in poverty. There is not enough social housing, which means more people in poverty are living with insecure tenancies in the private rented sector. •The number of private landlord repossessions is now higher than the number of mortgage repossessions (17,000 compared to 15,000 in 2013/14). •The end of a private rented sector tenancy is now the most common cause of homelessness. •The number of Housing Benefit claimants has risen by over a million in the last 10 years, and despite an overall drop in the number of claimants in the last year, there was an increase in working people claiming Housing Benefit and the average amount they claim is rising. thanks for posting this.. no doubt some will applaud it but its sad reading.. link in the rise in the fortunes of the super rich, tax avoidance and its looking pretty tough out there for some .. all in it together eh.." That's a very scary read isn't it | |||
"Joseph Rowntree Foundation revealed the changing picture of poverty in the UK with the launch of its annual report Monitoring Poverty and Social Exclusion written by the New Policy Institute (NPI). This is the most up-to-date and comprehensive guide to the state of the nation ahead of the General Election in 2015 – the definitive story of how the UK’s economic recovery is affecting people in poverty. It shows a dramatic change in who is most at risk of poverty compared to 10 years ago. It highlights: • A big rise in the proportion of adults under 25 in poverty, and a big fall among the over 75's. • More people in poverty living in working families - meaning as many are now in working families as workless ones). •More people in poverty living in private rented housing - meaning as many are now in private as social rented accommodation. •The labour market has changed significantly in the last ten years: there has been a vast increase in insecure work – zero hours contracts, part time work and low-paid self-employment, which means that getting a job does not necessarily mean getting out of poverty. The report shows: •Two thirds of people who moved from unemployment into work in the last year are paid below the Living Wage. •The long term prospects for people in low paid work are not good either: only a fifth of low paid employees have left low paid work completely 10 years later. •The average self-employed person earns 13% less than they did five years ago. •There are around 1.4m contracts not guaranteeing a minimum number of hours, and over half are in the lower-paying food, accommodation, retail and admin sectors. There is some welcome news: for example, there has been a vast reduction in pensioner poverty (which is now at the lowest on record) and the employment rate in the UK is close to its historic high. However: •Incomes are lower on average than a decade ago and the worst off have seen the biggest falls – nearly 10% lower than a decade ago. •Average wages for men working full time (in real terms) have dropped from £13.90 to £12.90 per hour between 2008 and 2013. •For women (whose employment rate has never been higher) wages fell from £10.80 per hour to £10.30 in the same period (indicator 25B). •For the lowest paid quarter of men, hourly pay fell by 70p per hour; for women, 40p per hour (indicator 25B). The report highlights the way the housing market has had a negative impact on people in poverty. There is not enough social housing, which means more people in poverty are living with insecure tenancies in the private rented sector. •The number of private landlord repossessions is now higher than the number of mortgage repossessions (17,000 compared to 15,000 in 2013/14). •The end of a private rented sector tenancy is now the most common cause of homelessness. •The number of Housing Benefit claimants has risen by over a million in the last 10 years, and despite an overall drop in the number of claimants in the last year, there was an increase in working people claiming Housing Benefit and the average amount they claim is rising." This is primarily because wages for the lowest paid workers have not risen in line with rises in other higher earnings in the UK. If lower wages had risen at an equivalent rate, they would already be £15+ an hour.. all we are asking for is a wage that lifts people out of government support to bolster thier income and enough to live comfortably. It's not like other countries haven't done this successfully either. Sweden, Finland, Norway and Denmark have some of the highest non mandatory minimum wages in Europe. In Sweden the average minimum wage is 158.50 Swedish Krona, that's £12.81. And the wages are worked out by collective bargaining, not government enforcement. Another thing about these countries, they class themselves as Socialist, and there economies are doing very well. Even though the and passed the 2008 crash. We should be looking to these countries for inspiration in how we can improve conditions for everyone. | |||
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"Joseph Rowntree Foundation revealed the changing picture of poverty in the UK with the launch of its annual report Monitoring Poverty and Social Exclusion written by the New Policy Institute (NPI). This is the most up-to-date and comprehensive guide to the state of the nation ahead of the General Election in 2015 – the definitive story of how the UK’s economic recovery is affecting people in poverty. It shows a dramatic change in who is most at risk of poverty compared to 10 years ago. It highlights: • A big rise in the proportion of adults under 25 in poverty, and a big fall among the over 75's. • More people in poverty living in working families - meaning as many are now in working families as workless ones). •More people in poverty living in private rented housing - meaning as many are now in private as social rented accommodation. •The labour market has changed significantly in the last ten years: there has been a vast increase in insecure work – zero hours contracts, part time work and low-paid self-employment, which means that getting a job does not necessarily mean getting out of poverty. The report shows: •Two thirds of people who moved from unemployment into work in the last year are paid below the Living Wage. •The long term prospects for people in low paid work are not good either: only a fifth of low paid employees have left low paid work completely 10 years later. •The average self-employed person earns 13% less than they did five years ago. •There are around 1.4m contracts not guaranteeing a minimum number of hours, and over half are in the lower-paying food, accommodation, retail and admin sectors. There is some welcome news: for example, there has been a vast reduction in pensioner poverty (which is now at the lowest on record) and the employment rate in the UK is close to its historic high. However: •Incomes are lower on average than a decade ago and the worst off have seen the biggest falls – nearly 10% lower than a decade ago. •Average wages for men working full time (in real terms) have dropped from £13.90 to £12.90 per hour between 2008 and 2013. •For women (whose employment rate has never been higher) wages fell from £10.80 per hour to £10.30 in the same period (indicator 25B). •For the lowest paid quarter of men, hourly pay fell by 70p per hour; for women, 40p per hour (indicator 25B). The report highlights the way the housing market has had a negative impact on people in poverty. There is not enough social housing, which means more people in poverty are living with insecure tenancies in the private rented sector. •The number of private landlord repossessions is now higher than the number of mortgage repossessions (17,000 compared to 15,000 in 2013/14). •The end of a private rented sector tenancy is now the most common cause of homelessness. •The number of Housing Benefit claimants has risen by over a million in the last 10 years, and despite an overall drop in the number of claimants in the last year, there was an increase in working people claiming Housing Benefit and the average amount they claim is rising. This is primarily because wages for the lowest paid workers have not risen in line with rises in other higher earnings in the UK. If lower wages had risen at an equivalent rate, they would already be £15+ an hour.. all we are asking for is a wage that lifts people out of government support to bolster thier income and enough to live comfortably. It's not like other countries haven't done this successfully either. Sweden, Finland, Norway and Denmark have some of the highest non mandatory minimum wages in Europe. In Sweden the average minimum wage is 158.50 Swedish Krona, that's £12.81. And the wages are worked out by collective bargaining, not government enforcement. Another thing about these countries, they class themselves as Socialist, and there economies are doing very well. Even though the and passed the 2008 crash. We should be looking to these countries for inspiration in how we can improve conditions for everyone." You cannot compare salaries in one country against salaries in another without also comparing the tax rates. The taxes in Scandinavia are very, very high at both income tax level and duties on the very things that the poor tend to spend their money on - alcohol and tobacco. I lived between Oslo and Copenhagen for a year and a half in the 1980's and the vision of Utopia championed in Norway at that time was the Thatcher conservative vision of small state, low tax, personal responsibility. It is a poor argument to gaze across the ocean and pick out a single part of another countries economy and imagine how green is their grass. If people in this country had to pay the same alcohol duty as in Norway there would be rioting in the streets. We were paying £5 a pint in the ascots mans in Oslo in 1987. I can't imagine what it would be today nearly 30 years later. I would be very surprised if the disposable income was any more because the taxes are so high. Remember that in this country the low paid are now out of income tax altogether. | |||
"Joseph Rowntree Foundation revealed the changing picture of poverty in the UK with the launch of its annual report Monitoring Poverty and Social Exclusion written by the New Policy Institute (NPI). This is the most up-to-date and comprehensive guide to the state of the nation ahead of the General Election in 2015 – the definitive story of how the UK’s economic recovery is affecting people in poverty. It shows a dramatic change in who is most at risk of poverty compared to 10 years ago. It highlights: • A big rise in the proportion of adults under 25 in poverty, and a big fall among the over 75's. • More people in poverty living in working families - meaning as many are now in working families as workless ones). •More people in poverty living in private rented housing - meaning as many are now in private as social rented accommodation. •The labour market has changed significantly in the last ten years: there has been a vast increase in insecure work – zero hours contracts, part time work and low-paid self-employment, which means that getting a job does not necessarily mean getting out of poverty. The report shows: •Two thirds of people who moved from unemployment into work in the last year are paid below the Living Wage. •The long term prospects for people in low paid work are not good either: only a fifth of low paid employees have left low paid work completely 10 years later. •The average self-employed person earns 13% less than they did five years ago. •There are around 1.4m contracts not guaranteeing a minimum number of hours, and over half are in the lower-paying food, accommodation, retail and admin sectors. There is some welcome news: for example, there has been a vast reduction in pensioner poverty (which is now at the lowest on record) and the employment rate in the UK is close to its historic high. However: •Incomes are lower on average than a decade ago and the worst off have seen the biggest falls – nearly 10% lower than a decade ago. •Average wages for men working full time (in real terms) have dropped from £13.90 to £12.90 per hour between 2008 and 2013. •For women (whose employment rate has never been higher) wages fell from £10.80 per hour to £10.30 in the same period (indicator 25B). •For the lowest paid quarter of men, hourly pay fell by 70p per hour; for women, 40p per hour (indicator 25B). The report highlights the way the housing market has had a negative impact on people in poverty. There is not enough social housing, which means more people in poverty are living with insecure tenancies in the private rented sector. •The number of private landlord repossessions is now higher than the number of mortgage repossessions (17,000 compared to 15,000 in 2013/14). •The end of a private rented sector tenancy is now the most common cause of homelessness. •The number of Housing Benefit claimants has risen by over a million in the last 10 years, and despite an overall drop in the number of claimants in the last year, there was an increase in working people claiming Housing Benefit and the average amount they claim is rising. This is primarily because wages for the lowest paid workers have not risen in line with rises in other higher earnings in the UK. If lower wages had risen at an equivalent rate, they would already be £15+ an hour.. all we are asking for is a wage that lifts people out of government support to bolster thier income and enough to live comfortably. It's not like other countries haven't done this successfully either. Sweden, Finland, Norway and Denmark have some of the highest non mandatory minimum wages in Europe. In Sweden the average minimum wage is 158.50 Swedish Krona, that's £12.81. And the wages are worked out by collective bargaining, not government enforcement. Another thing about these countries, they class themselves as Socialist, and there economies are doing very well. Even though the and passed the 2008 crash. We should be looking to these countries for inspiration in how we can improve conditions for everyone. You cannot compare salaries in one country against salaries in another without also comparing the tax rates. The taxes in Scandinavia are very, very high at both income tax level and duties on the very things that the poor tend to spend their money on - alcohol and tobacco. I lived between Oslo and Copenhagen for a year and a half in the 1980's and the vision of Utopia championed in Norway at that time was the Thatcher conservative vision of small state, low tax, personal responsibility. It is a poor argument to gaze across the ocean and pick out a single part of another countries economy and imagine how green is their grass. If people in this country had to pay the same alcohol duty as in Norway there would be rioting in the streets. We were paying £5 a pint in the ascots mans in Oslo in 1987. I can't imagine what it would be today nearly 30 years later. I would be very surprised if the disposable income was any more because the taxes are so high. Remember that in this country the low paid are now out of income tax altogether." Scotsmans | |||
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"Joseph Rowntree Foundation revealed the changing picture of poverty in the UK with the launch of its annual report Monitoring Poverty and Social Exclusion written by the New Policy Institute (NPI). This is the most up-to-date and comprehensive guide to the state of the nation ahead of the General Election in 2015 – the definitive story of how the UK’s economic recovery is affecting people in poverty. It shows a dramatic change in who is most at risk of poverty compared to 10 years ago. It highlights: • A big rise in the proportion of adults under 25 in poverty, and a big fall among the over 75's. • More people in poverty living in working families - meaning as many are now in working families as workless ones). •More people in poverty living in private rented housing - meaning as many are now in private as social rented accommodation. •The labour market has changed significantly in the last ten years: there has been a vast increase in insecure work – zero hours contracts, part time work and low-paid self-employment, which means that getting a job does not necessarily mean getting out of poverty. The report shows: •Two thirds of people who moved from unemployment into work in the last year are paid below the Living Wage. •The long term prospects for people in low paid work are not good either: only a fifth of low paid employees have left low paid work completely 10 years later. •The average self-employed person earns 13% less than they did five years ago. •There are around 1.4m contracts not guaranteeing a minimum number of hours, and over half are in the lower-paying food, accommodation, retail and admin sectors. There is some welcome news: for example, there has been a vast reduction in pensioner poverty (which is now at the lowest on record) and the employment rate in the UK is close to its historic high. However: •Incomes are lower on average than a decade ago and the worst off have seen the biggest falls – nearly 10% lower than a decade ago. •Average wages for men working full time (in real terms) have dropped from £13.90 to £12.90 per hour between 2008 and 2013. •For women (whose employment rate has never been higher) wages fell from £10.80 per hour to £10.30 in the same period (indicator 25B). •For the lowest paid quarter of men, hourly pay fell by 70p per hour; for women, 40p per hour (indicator 25B). The report highlights the way the housing market has had a negative impact on people in poverty. There is not enough social housing, which means more people in poverty are living with insecure tenancies in the private rented sector. •The number of private landlord repossessions is now higher than the number of mortgage repossessions (17,000 compared to 15,000 in 2013/14). •The end of a private rented sector tenancy is now the most common cause of homelessness. •The number of Housing Benefit claimants has risen by over a million in the last 10 years, and despite an overall drop in the number of claimants in the last year, there was an increase in working people claiming Housing Benefit and the average amount they claim is rising. This is primarily because wages for the lowest paid workers have not risen in line with rises in other higher earnings in the UK. If lower wages had risen at an equivalent rate, they would already be £15+ an hour.. all we are asking for is a wage that lifts people out of government support to bolster thier income and enough to live comfortably. It's not like other countries haven't done this successfully either. Sweden, Finland, Norway and Denmark have some of the highest non mandatory minimum wages in Europe. In Sweden the average minimum wage is 158.50 Swedish Krona, that's £12.81. And the wages are worked out by collective bargaining, not government enforcement. Another thing about these countries, they class themselves as Socialist, and there economies are doing very well. Even though the and passed the 2008 crash. We should be looking to these countries for inspiration in how we can improve conditions for everyone. You cannot compare salaries in one country against salaries in another without also comparing the tax rates. The taxes in Scandinavia are very, very high at both income tax level and duties on the very things that the poor tend to spend their money on - alcohol and tobacco. I lived between Oslo and Copenhagen for a year and a half in the 1980's and the vision of Utopia championed in Norway at that time was the Thatcher conservative vision of small state, low tax, personal responsibility. It is a poor argument to gaze across the ocean and pick out a single part of another countries economy and imagine how green is their grass. If people in this country had to pay the same alcohol duty as in Norway there would be rioting in the streets. We were paying £5 a pint in the ascots mans in Oslo in 1987. I can't imagine what it would be today nearly 30 years later. I would be very surprised if the disposable income was any more because the taxes are so high. Remember that in this country the low paid are now out of income tax altogether." As usual, I find myself in broad agreement with what you say. Your points always seem considered and well thought through. However there is another argument on low pay and that us this. If the amount a company pays someone to do a job is so much below a decent living wage that they have to claim in work benefits in order to make ends meet then aren't we just, for all intents, really just subsidising an uncompetitive and uneconomic company. To me it looks and feels similar to what we did in the 70s. If a company cannot pay a living wage we should not subsidies that wage. The company should be aloud to go out if business and another, more competitive company, maybe doing something else, would take its place. Low wage economies are neither good for workers. businesses or countries. | |||
"Joseph Rowntree Foundation revealed the changing picture of poverty in the UK with the launch of its annual report Monitoring Poverty and Social Exclusion written by the New Policy Institute (NPI). This is the most up-to-date and comprehensive guide to the state of the nation ahead of the General Election in 2015 – the definitive story of how the UK’s economic recovery is affecting people in poverty. It shows a dramatic change in who is most at risk of poverty compared to 10 years ago. It highlights: • A big rise in the proportion of adults under 25 in poverty, and a big fall among the over 75's. • More people in poverty living in working families - meaning as many are now in working families as workless ones). •More people in poverty living in private rented housing - meaning as many are now in private as social rented accommodation. •The labour market has changed significantly in the last ten years: there has been a vast increase in insecure work – zero hours contracts, part time work and low-paid self-employment, which means that getting a job does not necessarily mean getting out of poverty. The report shows: •Two thirds of people who moved from unemployment into work in the last year are paid below the Living Wage. •The long term prospects for people in low paid work are not good either: only a fifth of low paid employees have left low paid work completely 10 years later. •The average self-employed person earns 13% less than they did five years ago. •There are around 1.4m contracts not guaranteeing a minimum number of hours, and over half are in the lower-paying food, accommodation, retail and admin sectors. There is some welcome news: for example, there has been a vast reduction in pensioner poverty (which is now at the lowest on record) and the employment rate in the UK is close to its historic high. However: •Incomes are lower on average than a decade ago and the worst off have seen the biggest falls – nearly 10% lower than a decade ago. •Average wages for men working full time (in real terms) have dropped from £13.90 to £12.90 per hour between 2008 and 2013. •For women (whose employment rate has never been higher) wages fell from £10.80 per hour to £10.30 in the same period (indicator 25B). •For the lowest paid quarter of men, hourly pay fell by 70p per hour; for women, 40p per hour (indicator 25B). The report highlights the way the housing market has had a negative impact on people in poverty. There is not enough social housing, which means more people in poverty are living with insecure tenancies in the private rented sector. •The number of private landlord repossessions is now higher than the number of mortgage repossessions (17,000 compared to 15,000 in 2013/14). •The end of a private rented sector tenancy is now the most common cause of homelessness. •The number of Housing Benefit claimants has risen by over a million in the last 10 years, and despite an overall drop in the number of claimants in the last year, there was an increase in working people claiming Housing Benefit and the average amount they claim is rising. This is primarily because wages for the lowest paid workers have not risen in line with rises in other higher earnings in the UK. If lower wages had risen at an equivalent rate, they would already be £15+ an hour.. all we are asking for is a wage that lifts people out of government support to bolster thier income and enough to live comfortably. It's not like other countries haven't done this successfully either. Sweden, Finland, Norway and Denmark have some of the highest non mandatory minimum wages in Europe. In Sweden the average minimum wage is 158.50 Swedish Krona, that's £12.81. And the wages are worked out by collective bargaining, not government enforcement. Another thing about these countries, they class themselves as Socialist, and there economies are doing very well. Even though the and passed the 2008 crash. We should be looking to these countries for inspiration in how we can improve conditions for everyone. You cannot compare salaries in one country against salaries in another without also comparing the tax rates. The taxes in Scandinavia are very, very high at both income tax level and duties on the very things that the poor tend to spend their money on - alcohol and tobacco. I lived between Oslo and Copenhagen for a year and a half in the 1980's and the vision of Utopia championed in Norway at that time was the Thatcher conservative vision of small state, low tax, personal responsibility. It is a poor argument to gaze across the ocean and pick out a single part of another countries economy and imagine how green is their grass. If people in this country had to pay the same alcohol duty as in Norway there would be rioting in the streets. We were paying £5 a pint in the ascots mans in Oslo in 1987. I can't imagine what it would be today nearly 30 years later. I would be very surprised if the disposable income was any more because the taxes are so high. Remember that in this country the low paid are now out of income tax altogether. As usual, I find myself in broad agreement with what you say. Your points always seem considered and well thought through. However there is another argument on low pay and that us this. If the amount a company pays someone to do a job is so much below a decent living wage that they have to claim in work benefits in order to make ends meet then aren't we just, for all intents, really just subsidising an uncompetitive and uneconomic company. To me it looks and feels similar to what we did in the 70s. If a company cannot pay a living wage we should not subsidies that wage. The company should be aloud to go out if business and another, more competitive company, maybe doing something else, would take its place. Low wage economies are neither good for workers. businesses or countries." | |||
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"Up the minimum wage and people have more disposable income which means people will spend more which goes towards shops/businesses who will in turn buy more stock to supply to the masses who's manufacturers pay their employees the minimum wage which then pays for the items! I believe that's how the economy works. But I maybe wrong as I'm from a working class socialist background There is a certain amount of truth in that but it's not quite that simple. However a low wage economy is seldom a successful one either. Companies need customers with money to make profits. The part that is missing is: Increase the minimum wage by over £3 an hour, increase the staff costs, reduce the profit margin, reduce the economic viability of producing some products. Maybe there are too many companies producing the same or very similar products already. It's called competition. As opposed to state owned monopolies that produce one overpriced, shoddy product that you have to wait for ever to get." love it when people do their utmost not to over simplify matters  | |||
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"We certainly need a change of direction. Post Thatchers neo con privatisation bonanza. We have the most inefficient railways that now cost the tax payer 6 times! The amount that British rail cost to run. Add to that our train companies all being now owned by the state owned railways of Germany France and Holland. It's the same story in the energy sector as well. With those examples it's clear to me we would have been better off if we had not sold those assets off." . Yeah but remember the public are half wits that don't look any further than what time does corrie start and the notion of wow there's a tenner in it for me!. They never see through the fact that a wealthy family put their kids in parliament to allow them to deliberately run down an industry so that the public will say, my God this industry is costing us a fortune and we'll be ten quid better off if we.... Privatise/let in anyone/deregulate/build everywhere/borrow unlimited and... Oh yes they get to get it really really cheap. | |||
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"The only people that have ever gained from privatization are the politician. Like the 71 Conservative and Lid Dem MP's that are linked financially to the companies that either have been awarded, or were bidding for contracts on the NHS through PFI. " This sounds like quite a serious allegation. Can you show a link to this or provide anything to back the statement up. My personal feeling is that the main people op gain from PFI are the construction companies building the new infrastructure. | |||
"The only people that have ever gained from privatization are the politician. Like the 71 Conservative and Lid Dem MP's that are linked financially to the companies that either have been awarded, or were bidding for contracts on the NHS through PFI. This sounds like quite a serious allegation. Can you show a link to this or provide anything to back the statement up. My personal feeling is that the main people op gain from PFI are the construction companies building the new infrastructure. " Of course they can't. It is impossible to prove something that you just made up. As far as I remember anyway the PFI contracts are very much a Labour legacy | |||
"The only people that have ever gained from privatization are the politician. Like the 71 Conservative and Lid Dem MP's that are linked financially to the companies that either have been awarded, or were bidding for contracts on the NHS through PFI. This sounds like quite a serious allegation. Can you show a link to this or provide anything to back the statement up. My personal feeling is that the main people op gain from PFI are the construction companies building the new infrastructure. Of course they can't. It is impossible to prove something that you just made up. As far as I remember anyway the PFI contracts are very much a Labour legacy" I was saving that point for when they answered and blamed the wicked Tories. LOL | |||
" As far as I remember anyway the PFI contracts are very much a Labour legacy" 1992 Tories under John Major.. correct to say till 97 the contracts awarded were few in number.. then 'new Labour' used them as a way of new this new that and the actual cost being kept off the balance sheet.. | |||
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"More or less*" Well I won't be voting for them but, as I oppose any corruption whether from the left or right, a recommend you post the link in here. Also links tend to work better in here ( don't get auto edited out). | |||
"More or less* Well I won't be voting for them but, as I oppose any corruption whether from the left or right, a recommend you post the link in here. Also links tend to work better in here ( don't get auto edited out)." Here's the link http://www.unitetheunion.org/news/71-coalition-mps-who-voted-for-nhs-sell-off-linked-to-health-firms/ The report is from the 'Unite' union, not exactly the most unbiased institution in the world when it comes to either the NHS or the coalition government. The links between the MPs and the PFI companies is, in most cases, a little tenuous (i.e. Same hedge fund makes a donation to MP office and also has some investment in a company that is involved in PFI) Personally I would have thought a better line of attack would be to ask why hedge funds, partly responsible for the 2008 crash, are still allowed to make donations, and presumably have influence, to any MPs? | |||
"The only people that have ever gained from privatization are the politician. Like the 71 Conservative and Lid Dem MP's that are linked financially to the companies that either have been awarded, or were bidding for contracts on the NHS through PFI. This sounds like quite a serious allegation. Can you show a link to this or provide anything to back the statement up. My personal feeling is that the main people op gain from PFI are the construction companies building the new infrastructure. Of course they can't. It is impossible to prove something that you just made up. As far as I remember anyway the PFI contracts are very much a Labour legacy I was saving that point for when they answered and blamed the wicked Tories. LOL" Is that the same Tories who stopped redevelopment of many schools cancelled the surestart nursery scheme. Then blamed the previous government for failing to predict a baby boom? Or the same Tories who stopped milk to children in the 80's or the same tories who introduced the poll tax? | |||
"The only people that have ever gained from privatization are the politician. Like the 71 Conservative and Lid Dem MP's that are linked financially to the companies that either have been awarded, or were bidding for contracts on the NHS through PFI. This sounds like quite a serious allegation. Can you show a link to this or provide anything to back the statement up. My personal feeling is that the main people op gain from PFI are the construction companies building the new infrastructure. Of course they can't. It is impossible to prove something that you just made up. As far as I remember anyway the PFI contracts are very much a Labour legacy I was saving that point for when they answered and blamed the wicked Tories. LOL Is that the same Tories who stopped redevelopment of many schools cancelled the surestart nursery scheme. Then blamed the previous government for failing to predict a baby boom? " Actually I think they blamed the previous goverment more for spending all the money and leaving nothing behind except massive debts " Or the same Tories who stopped milk to children in the 80's" Do you really think that buying milk for every kid in the country is a good use of public funds? " or the same tories who introduced the poll ta/x?" Well I always thought the Community Charge wad a bloody stupid idea so I'm not going to defend it now. But yep; the very same | |||
, but to me, the decades old problem of railways can easily be solved on one swift swoop; - get rid of the chief executive idiots & their like who have continuously drained the industry of any chance of competing with Europe, & hand the massive problem over to the Germans & French. - who obviously know more about these things!! ........but make the previous findings public, of course; - no need for anymore cover-ups, - that's why the French & German railways have excelled with far better infrastructure, faster trains, far better value for the passengers - & we're fckn Shite!!
Problem solved (but 30 years previously would have been suffice) !!!
Sad but true!
First steps...................  | |||
"Up the minimum wage and people have more disposable income which means people will spend more which goes towards shops/businesses who will in turn buy more stock to supply to the masses who's manufacturers pay their employees the minimum wage which then pays for the items! I believe that's how the economy works. But I maybe wrong as I'm from a working class socialist background" The shops would also increase the prices accordingly. So in effect you'd just force inflation by about 40%. This would also stop potential overseas investors as they would be getting far less for their money. Add on top the semi skilled who are currently earning about that sum would be demanding pay rises to match as there's no point in working hard towards qualifications and a career when you can stack shelves at tesco for the same money. And that's the short version, it would destroy our economy | |||
"Up the minimum wage and people have more disposable income which means people will spend more which goes towards shops/businesses who will in turn buy more stock to supply to the masses who's manufacturers pay their employees the minimum wage which then pays for the items! I believe that's how the economy works. But I maybe wrong as I'm from a working class socialist background" Have you learnt nothing from history. When I started work in the 60s wages were around £10 per week, but as the decades past wages rises brought poverty as wage rises forced prices up and those on low incomes such as farm workers fell behind in the race. In addition though I support nationalised railways the ideal falls behind the fact. Railways declined when the private companies were merged into the four big groups after the 1st World War. When they were finally nationalised the downward spiral speeded up leading to drastic closures in the 60s by Beeching. Nationalised companies fail as there is nothing to drive success, if they make a loss the taxpayer is forced to pay more to support them. If a private company fails it goes to the wall, hence it is driven to make a profit and succeed. | |||
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"Up the minimum wage and people have more disposable income which means people will spend more which goes towards shops/businesses who will in turn buy more stock to supply to the masses who's manufacturers pay their employees the minimum wage which then pays for the items! I believe that's how the economy works. But I maybe wrong as I'm from a working class socialist background Have you learnt nothing from history. When I started work in the 60s wages were around £10 per week, but as the decades past wages rises brought poverty as wage rises forced prices up and those on low incomes such as farm workers fell behind in the race. In addition though I support nationalised railways the ideal falls behind the fact. Railways declined when the private companies were merged into the four big groups after the 1st World War. When they were finally nationalised the downward spiral speeded up leading to drastic closures in the 60s by Beeching. Nationalised companies fail as there is nothing to drive success, if they make a loss the taxpayer is forced to pay more to support them. If a private company fails it goes to the wall, hence it is driven to make a profit and succeed." . Apart from the fact that Swiss, German, Dutch, French, Japanese... All their trains work perfectly. | |||
"Can someone please explain then, why your average French person lives a far better lifestyle than us? Is it decades of milking the wealth by the upper classes or have we just been diabolically governed? I keep hearing this 'one of the biggest economies in the world' bullshit but it isn't worth FA unless this so called wealth is more fairly distributed, like in France, Germany......... not to mention Canada, Australasia, Holland, Belgium, - I mean, do politicians always have to avoid the above whilst bragging about a false wealth, - rather than the usual comparisons with the third world? It really does smell iffy!" . If you take banking and oil from the UK economy we actually drop to about 20th | |||
"Up the minimum wage and people have more disposable income which means people will spend more which goes towards shops/businesses who will in turn buy more stock to supply to the masses who's manufacturers pay their employees the minimum wage which then pays for the items! I believe that's how the economy works. But I maybe wrong as I'm from a working class socialist background Have you learnt nothing from history. When I started work in the 60s wages were around £10 per week, but as the decades past wages rises brought poverty as wage rises forced prices up and those on low incomes such as farm workers fell behind in the race. In addition though I support nationalised railways the ideal falls behind the fact. Railways declined when the private companies were merged into the four big groups after the 1st World War. When they were finally nationalised the downward spiral speeded up leading to drastic closures in the 60s by Beeching. Nationalised companies fail as there is nothing to drive success, if they make a loss the taxpayer is forced to pay more to support them. If a private company fails it goes to the wall, hence it is driven to make a profit and succeed." But as history has taught me that the value of the pound has changed. In the 1960's house prices weren't the same as now, or have they only risen because people are paid more money? People were paid £10 a week in the 60's because that was a hell of a lot of money. I believe this happens world wide not just in Britain where there's a minimum wage. | |||
"We certainly need a change of direction. Post Thatchers neo con privatisation bonanza. We have the most inefficient railways that now cost the tax payer 6 times! The amount that British rail cost to run. Add to that our train companies all being now owned by the state owned railways of Germany France and Holland. It's the same story in the energy sector as well. With those examples it's clear to me we would have been better off if we had not sold those assets off." Our energy costs are amongst the cheapest in Europe. Despite or maybe because of enforced competition. State ownership of industry in a democratic set up like our will never work quite simply because the budgets required to fund and invest into them are gargantuan and no government can be trusted with massive budgets. Look at the arguing and fighting that goes on now with the NHS budget and imagine the same argument ten times over. This is the very reason why we should have the smallest possible government with smallest budget and let the people themselves create the economy by choosing what they spend their own money on. | |||
"We certainly need a change of direction. Post Thatchers neo con privatisation bonanza. We have the most inefficient railways that now cost the tax payer 6 times! The amount that British rail cost to run. Add to that our train companies all being now owned by the state owned railways of Germany France and Holland. It's the same story in the energy sector as well. With those examples it's clear to me we would have been better off if we had not sold those assets off. Our energy costs are amongst the cheapest in Europe. Despite or maybe because of enforced competition. State ownership of industry in a democratic set up like our will never work quite simply because the budgets required to fund and invest into them are gargantuan and no government can be trusted with massive budgets. Look at the arguing and fighting that goes on now with the NHS budget and imagine the same argument ten times over. This is the very reason why we should have the smallest possible government with smallest budget and let the people themselves create the economy by choosing what they spend their own money on." . Who would have bailed the banks out! | |||
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"I really don't understand the desire that some people have for the State to own and operate everything. Surely even those with a most basic grasp of economics can see that a bigger government is a more wasteful government simply because of inefficiencies that get introduced because of increasing size. Economics is spoken about and debated at length but, in my opinion, it can be a very simple thing to understand. The household budget is a macro example of the economy of a country. If you keep your spending within the budget of your income and in fact you can run a surplus (and save money). This is an infinitely wiser way to run your household finances than always spending more than you earn and then making things worse by borrowing money to plug the gap. Socialist policy is to increase public spending by creating a big government. Conservatism is all about reducing the size of the government,reduce the spending of the government and get the country into a surplus. As for bailing out the banks - let's use the household budget as an analogy. If you were running a surplus because you were managing your finances correctly and suddenly needed an emergency loan - it would be very easy to get. Considering that this is what Gordon Brown had to do anyway because there was already a deficit it is a strange comment to make. Either way, the government would borrow money as an emergency measure, but it would make more sense to borrow when the economy is running at a surplus rather than a debt." . You cannot compare household budgets to country budgets there totally different, one that Osbourne does continuously but only to placate the stupid. In an exponential economy you have to continuously increase the money! All money comes about through debt! | |||
"I really don't understand the desire that some people have for the State to own and operate everything. Surely even those with a most basic grasp of economics can see that a bigger government is a more wasteful government simply because of inefficiencies that get introduced because of increasing size. Economics is spoken about and debated at length but, in my opinion, it can be a very simple thing to understand. The household budget is a macro example of the economy of a country. If you keep your spending within the budget of your income and in fact you can run a surplus (and save money). This is an infinitely wiser way to run your household finances than always spending more than you earn and then making things worse by borrowing money to plug the gap. Socialist policy is to increase public spending by creating a big government. Conservatism is all about reducing the size of the government,reduce the spending of the government and get the country into a surplus. As for bailing out the banks - let's use the household budget as an analogy. If you were running a surplus because you were managing your finances correctly and suddenly needed an emergency loan - it would be very easy to get. Considering that this is what Gordon Brown had to do anyway because there was already a deficit it is a strange comment to make. Either way, the government would borrow money as an emergency measure, but it would make more sense to borrow when the economy is running at a surplus rather than a debt.. You cannot compare household budgets to country budgets there totally different, one that Osbourne does continuously but only to placate the stupid. In an exponential economy you have to continuously increase the money! All money comes about through debt!" You are being disrespectful to the stupid if you believe only the intelligent think that the way forward is to spend more than you earn. A hosehold budget is a company, city, state and country economy but on a smaller scale. No matter how disingenuous you try to be - it is simply about income and expenditure. A family budget also expands exponentially and reacts to local, national and world events just like the economy at large. I had a small GDP when I was young, single and living alone. As a wife and bigger house came along so the size of our budget increased and the arrival of kids resulted in some austerity cuts to make sure that essential stuff like food and heating came before boat fuel and motorcycles. | |||
"I really don't understand the desire that some people have for the State to own and operate everything. Surely even those with a most basic grasp of economics can see that a bigger government is a more wasteful government simply because of inefficiencies that get introduced because of increasing size. Economics is spoken about and debated at length but, in my opinion, it can be a very simple thing to understand. The household budget is a macro example of the economy of a country. If you keep your spending within the budget of your income and in fact you can run a surplus (and save money). This is an infinitely wiser way to run your household finances than always spending more than you earn and then making things worse by borrowing money to plug the gap. Socialist policy is to increase public spending by creating a big government. Conservatism is all about reducing the size of the government,reduce the spending of the government and get the country into a surplus. As for bailing out the banks - let's use the household budget as an analogy. If you were running a surplus because you were managing your finances correctly and suddenly needed an emergency loan - it would be very easy to get. Considering that this is what Gordon Brown had to do anyway because there was already a deficit it is a strange comment to make. Either way, the government would borrow money as an emergency measure, but it would make more sense to borrow when the economy is running at a surplus rather than a debt.. You cannot compare household budgets to country budgets there totally different, one that Osbourne does continuously but only to placate the stupid. In an exponential economy you have to continuously increase the money! All money comes about through debt! You are being disrespectful to the stupid if you believe only the intelligent think that the way forward is to spend more than you earn. A hosehold budget is a company, city, state and country economy but on a smaller scale. No matter how disingenuous you try to be - it is simply about income and expenditure. A family budget also expands exponentially and reacts to local, national and world events just like the economy at large. I had a small GDP when I was young, single and living alone. As a wife and bigger house came along so the size of our budget increased and the arrival of kids resulted in some austerity cuts to make sure that essential stuff like food and heating came before boat fuel and motorcycles." . Your applying fundamentally different principles to the same ideology, I'm not trying to be disingenuous to stupid people, I'm pointing out that wiser people attach a principle to things that seems appropriate at first glance but actually isn't. For instance do you have an import/export in your household budget, do you evaluate for differential currency fluctuations in your imports, do you create your own money supply and have fundamental control of it, are you fundamentally tied to growing your household budget year on year. According to your values of budget harmony America would be the smallest economy in the world as they've been in deficit for 40 years!. There actually the second largest, why! Because unlike you they have the ability to create their own money from nothing. Now I'm not arguing against budget balancing I'm actually in favour of it. But... And here's the big one, private debt far out ways public debt, the people are living way more beyond there means than the government ever have done. | |||
" Some of it is common sense, all very well having all these ideas, but where do they show how they are going to achieve all this, or even some of it? Nationalise banks? Which banks? Lots of them are foreign owned, I don't see those countries allowing this without some form of compensation, same goes for the utilities and train companies, some have invested billions in upgrading etc. Much like the Lib Dems, they can promise the world to the voters, knowing they will never have to keep the promise. Massive change in politics is most definitely needed. The railways are already subsidised by the tax payer to £4M a year though the profits are privatised.. We wait until the contracts expire and take them back under state control. Same with NHS etc. We nationalised the bank debts but again the profits are private. Would love to say fuck em but we would pay compensation on proven need. And the same with the utilities I see the op is thirty..too young to remember the unmitigated inertia that characterised previous state ownership...utopian solutions are well meant disasters. I may be only thirty and not remember the previous state ownership. but how does that effect my ability to think reasonably and come to the conclusion that re-nationalization is the answer. And what was used when Putin started throwing his weight about? Economic sanctions have hit harder than any plane, electronic warfare has replaced bullets and tanks. the unfortunate thing about the sanctions against Russia is that they aren't really hurting Russia. Germany has been feeling more of the brunt as they are exported a huge quantity to Russia. Plus Russia happens to be one of the few larger countries that have a massive financial reserve $300+ billion Ask a Russian -almost any Russian if their life is good. " Hello - Mr Abaramovich how is life treating you these days?? | |||
