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Teacher "groomed" by 16 yr old pupill
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"Just seen this on news (in tomorrow's papers. A judge has ruled that a "naive" 44 yr old teacher was "groomed" by a clever and manipulative pupil. He, therefore, refused to jail the teacher. Thoughts on this? Could it be real/sensible? The papers are having a real go at the judge. As she was 16.... Is having sex with her actually illegal anyway? (Immoral yes...but illegal?)" I don't feel it's either sensible or real however as we often say in other cases where we don't agree with the verdict we weren't party to all the evidence. However she was 15 he was 44 no matter how clever and manipulative she was he cannot have been so naïve as to fall for it. | |||
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"I believe the judge was female " yes she is. | |||
"I think the girl was 15 when he took her virginity on a gym mat in school the same week his wife miscarried their baby, the female judge said he was vulnerable because of this. I have no words." 
'vulnerable'
ffs.. | |||
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"It would still count as statutory rape. The teacher is in a position of power over the pupil. Therefore, it's still illegal. He's a teacher. He know what he signed up for. Completely irresponsible. I don't know the details, obviously - but it is still illegal." This exactly. Legal at 18, same goes for any position where it is deemed you are influential over anyone under 18. (UK) | |||
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"She was 16.... Not 15!" Yes she was sorry, he was cleared of charges relating to when she was 15. | |||
"She was 16.... Not 15!" Jesus Christ if anyone should know better it's a 40yr old teacher!! | |||
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"It always surprises me how very little people know the laws surrounding this area - especially given the coverage it gets in media. Age of Consent in the UK - 18 HOWEVER, for people in a position of power of a person (teacher, mentor, doctor etc.) - the age is lower - 16 Educate yourselves "Oops! Wrong way round methinks!? | |||
"It always surprises me how very little people know the laws surrounding this area - especially given the coverage it gets in media. Age of Consent in the UK - 18 HOWEVER, for people in a position of power of a person (teacher, mentor, doctor etc.) - the age is lower - 16 Educate yourselves
Oops! Wrong way round methinks!?"Well in the sense that the position -not- in power (AKA the student) - their age if consent is 16 years old. I had described that in an earlier post, however. | |||
"It always surprises me how very little people know the laws surrounding this area - especially given the coverage it gets in media. Age of Consent in the UK - 18 HOWEVER, for people in a position of power of a person (teacher, mentor, doctor etc.) - the age is lower - 16 Educate yourselves
Oops! Wrong way round methinks!?
Well in the sense that the position -not- in power (AKA the student) - their age if consent is 16 years old.
I had described that in an earlier post, however."How come what profesion you have? the law sais at age 16 no matter what profession. | |||
"It always surprises me how very little people know the laws surrounding this area - especially given the coverage it gets in media. Age of Consent in the UK - 18 HOWEVER, for people in a position of power of a person (teacher, mentor, doctor etc.) - the age is lower - 16 Educate yourselves
Oops! Wrong way round methinks!?
Well in the sense that the position -not- in power (AKA the student) - their age if consent is 16 years old.
I had described that in an earlier post, however."I don't understand  | |||
".How come what profesion you have? the law sais at age 16 no matter what profession." The law does not state this. Have a Google search of "Age of Consent in the UK" and/or "Statutory Rape in the UK" | |||
".How come what profesion you have? the law sais at age 16 no matter what profession. The law does not state this. Have a Google search of "Age of Consent in the UK" and/or "Statutory Rape in the UK"" I just googled what age ok to have sex in the uk and 16 came up, even a paragraph from Cameron said it was 16. | |||
"It always surprises me how very little people know the laws surrounding this area - especially given the coverage it gets in media. Age of Consent in the UK - 18 HOWEVER, for people in a position of power of a person (teacher, mentor, doctor etc.) - the age is lower - 16 Educate yourselves
Oops! Wrong way round methinks!?
Well in the sense that the position -not- in power (AKA the student) - their age if consent is 16 years old.
I had described that in an earlier post, however.How come what profesion you have? the law sais at age 16 no matter what profession."its the being in a position of trust issue i believe.. dont forget some youngsters will have known their teachers for several years and the law is there to protect the child from any 'grooming' i guess.. | |||
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"I just googled what age ok to have sex in the uk and 16 came up, even a paragraph from Cameron said it was 16." I'm not really going to argue my point further - just do more than a two second search. Read definitions the explanations of Statutory Rape - it's honestly better than me quoting all the information. And yes, Surrey is correct. It's all about the person being in a position of power over the younger person. No 'set' professions, although some fields would obviously fall under that (e.g. secondary school teachers). | |||
" I'm not really going to argue my point further - just do more than a two second search. Read definitions the explanations of Statutory Rape - it's honestly better than me quoting all the information. And yes, Surrey is correct. It's all about the person being in a position of power over the younger person. No 'set' professions, although some fields would obviously fall under that (e.g. secondary school teachers)." 100% correct!  | |||
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"I just googled what age ok to have sex in the uk and 16 came up, even a paragraph from Cameron said it was 16. I'm not really going to argue my point further - just do more than a two second search. Read definitions the explanations of Statutory Rape - it's honestly better than me quoting all the information. And yes, Surrey is correct. It's all about the person being in a position of power over the younger person. No 'set' professions, although some fields would obviously fall under that (e.g. secondary school teachers)." YEs that's fine as we have difernet view points there. | |||
"I find it all right, so does it mean its not ok to have sex with 16s even tho the law sais it? Maibe they should look it up before sentenceing the teacher, most rediculus charge I heard of. And no if the law sais its ok there is no "morals"." The law actually raises the age of consent from 16 to 18 when the older party is in a position of trust such as a teacher or doctor. This was an illegal act of rape for which he has rightly been convicted. The only question is whether the mitigating circumstances justify what seems to be an overly light sentence. | |||
"I just googled what age ok to have sex in the uk and 16 came up, even a paragraph from Cameron said it was 16. I'm not really going to argue my point further - just do more than a two second search. Read definitions the explanations of Statutory Rape - it's honestly better than me quoting all the information. And yes, Surrey is correct. It's all about the person being in a position of power over the younger person. No 'set' professions, although some fields would obviously fall under that (e.g. secondary school teachers).YEs that's fine as we have difernet view points there." on some issue's ones view point can only be what is within the limits set etc.. | |||
"It always surprises me how very little people know the laws surrounding this area - especially given the coverage it gets in media. Age of Consent in the UK - 18 HOWEVER, for people in a position of power of a person (teacher, mentor, doctor etc.) - the age is lower - 16 Educate yourselves "You got the 16 and 18 the wrong way round. | |||
"I just googled what age ok to have sex in the uk and 16 came up, even a paragraph from Cameron said it was 16. I'm not really going to argue my point further - just do more than a two second search. Read definitions the explanations of Statutory Rape - it's honestly better than me quoting all the information. And yes, Surrey is correct. It's all about the person being in a position of power over the younger person. No 'set' professions, although some fields would obviously fall under that (e.g. secondary school teachers).YEs that's fine as we have difernet view points there. on some issue's ones view point can only be what is within the limits set etc.." YEs your right there and I gues it goes for all x | |||
"It always surprises me how very little people know the laws surrounding this area - especially given the coverage it gets in media. Age of Consent in the UK - 18 HOWEVER, for people in a position of power of a person (teacher, mentor, doctor etc.) - the age is lower - 16 Educate yourselves
You got the 16 and 18 the wrong way round."Ah I see, apologies I did! No wonder a couple were confused...I was giving conflicting statements, haha. You're right, the 16 and 18 should be switched - thank you. | |||
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".How come what profesion you have? the law sais at age 16 no matter what profession. The law does not state this. Have a Google search of "Age of Consent in the UK" and/or "Statutory Rape in the UK"I just googled what age ok to have sex in the uk and 16 came up, even a paragraph from Cameron said it was 16." Google more and read it all. 18 if the older is in a position of trust. | |||
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"Bugger pupil only has one L before anyone else pics up on that!" Or picks up even!  | |||
"I just googled what age ok to have sex in the uk and 16 came up, even a paragraph from Cameron said it was 16. I'm not really going to argue my point further - just do more than a two second search. Read definitions the explanations of Statutory Rape - it's honestly better than me quoting all the information. And yes, Surrey is correct. It's all about the person being in a position of power over the younger person. No 'set' professions, although some fields would obviously fall under that (e.g. secondary school teachers).YEs that's fine as we have difernet view points there." You can't have a different view point on such a clear piece of law. It's 16 normally but 18 if the older person is in a position of trust. You can only have a view point on whether you think the law is correct and right. | |||
"Sexual Offences Act (2000) "it shall be an offence for a person aged 18 or over— (a)to have sexual intercourse (whether vaginal or anal) with a person under that age; or (b)to engage in any other sexual activity with or directed towards such a person, if (in either case) he is in a position of trust in relation to that person" It's not always an offence e.g. if the two people involved are married (and some other scenarios)" Correct-a-mundo | |||
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"He is an adult and knew right from wrong "He should have, but he could only be prosecuted for being in a position of trust because he taught at the school and she was a student there. If he'd taught at a different school, there'd have been no conviction for that charge. | |||
"I just googled what age ok to have sex in the uk and 16 came up, even a paragraph from Cameron said it was 16. I'm not really going to argue my point further - just do more than a two second search. Read definitions the explanations of Statutory Rape - it's honestly better than me quoting all the information. And yes, Surrey is correct. It's all about the person being in a position of power over the younger person. No 'set' professions, although some fields would obviously fall under that (e.g. secondary school teachers).YEs that's fine as we have difernet view points there. You can't have a different view point on such a clear piece of law. It's 16 normally but 18 if the older person is in a position of trust. You can only have a view point on whether you think the law is correct and right." YEs ur right and as well depends case for case they have. | |||
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"I'd rather leave it too the judge" Very wise. | |||
"I'd rather leave it too the judge" Me to,although I wouldn't be surprised if the sentence is appealed. In which case another judge will have the final say. | |||
"I'd rather leave it too the judge Me to,although I wouldn't be surprised if the sentence is appealed. In which case another judge will have the final say." I'll ask people I know at the school. Get the general mood of it all. After all, only down the road! But yeah, I assume many will be shocked at the sentence. | |||
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"It always surprises me how very little people know the laws surrounding this area - especially given the coverage it gets in media. Age of Consent in the UK - 18 HOWEVER, for people in a position of power of a person (teacher, mentor, doctor etc.) - the age is lower - 16 Educate yourselves "You have this backwards. The age of consent is 16. In the case of someone with a person in a position of power, the age of consent is higher. They have to be 18 to be able to consent. | |||
"It always surprises me how very little people know the laws surrounding this area - especially given the coverage it gets in media. Age of Consent in the UK - 18 HOWEVER, for people in a position of power of a person (teacher, mentor, doctor etc.) - the age is lower - 16 Educate yourselves
You got the 16 and 18 the wrong way round.
Ah I see, apologies I did!
No wonder a couple were confused...I was giving conflicting statements, haha. You're right, the 16 and 18 should be switched - thank you."Ah, I had missed this when I posted. I see it's already been clarified. | |||
"Sexual Offences Act (2000) "it shall be an offence for a person aged 18 or over— (a)to have sexual intercourse (whether vaginal or anal) with a person under that age; or (b)to engage in any other sexual activity with or directed towards such a person, if (in either case) he is in a position of trust in relation to that person" It's not always an offence e.g. if the two people involved are married (and some other scenarios)" If my reading of the above is right... If is is an act carried out by a female over 18 on a male thats OK?
wonder who worded that bit of legislation? | |||
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"Just seen this on news (in tomorrow's papers. A judge has ruled that a "naive" 44 yr old teacher was "groomed" by a clever and manipulative pupil. He, therefore, refused to jail the teacher. Thoughts on this? Could it be real/sensible? The papers are having a real go at the judge. As she was 16.... Is having sex with her actually illegal anyway? (Immoral yes...but illegal?)" Completely unacceptable as teachers are in a position of trust and are fully aware of the rules governing relationships with pupils . You must be unbalanced to even consider this type of relationship. How would you feel if it was your daughter ?. Hopefully no parents would approve . | |||
"It would still count as statutory rape. The teacher is in a position of power over the pupil. Therefore, it's still illegal. He's a teacher. He know what he signed up for. Completely irresponsible. I don't know the details, obviously - but it is still illegal." This | |||
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"I find the whole situation reprehensible. However when discussing the Ched Evans case a lot of us including me, said that since we weren't present to hear all the evidence we should trust that the legal system had done it's job. I wholeheartedly disagree with the outcome here but does the same principle apply?" 
I think it does. | |||
"Just seen this on news (in tomorrow's papers. A judge has ruled that a "naive" 44 yr old teacher was "groomed" by a clever and manipulative pupil. He, therefore, refused to jail the teacher. Thoughts on this? Could it be real/sensible? The papers are having a real go at the judge. As she was 16.... Is having sex with her actually illegal anyway? (Immoral yes...but illegal?)" The pupil was entrusted in to his care and he took advantage of her. He was the mature adult and should have known what was inappropriate. The fact that she is above the age of consent it was just plain wrong. | |||
"Just seen this on news (in tomorrow's papers. A judge has ruled that a "naive" 44 yr old teacher was "groomed" by a clever and manipulative pupil. He, therefore, refused to jail the teacher. Thoughts on this? Could it be real/sensible? The papers are having a real go at the judge. As she was 16.... Is having sex with her actually illegal anyway? (Immoral yes...but illegal?) The pupil was entrusted in to his care and he took advantage of her. He was the mature adult and should have known what was inappropriate. The fact that she is above the age of consent it was just plain wrong. "But she wasn't above the age of consent. It's 18 in this situation. | |||
"Just seen this on news (in tomorrow's papers. A judge has ruled that a "naive" 44 yr old teacher was "groomed" by a clever and manipulative pupil. He, therefore, refused to jail the teacher. Thoughts on this? Could it be real/sensible? The papers are having a real go at the judge. As she was 16.... Is having sex with her actually illegal anyway? (Immoral yes...but illegal?) The pupil was entrusted in to his care and he took advantage of her. He was the mature adult and should have known what was inappropriate. The fact that she is above the age of consent it was just plain wrong.
But she wasn't above the age of consent. It's 18 in this situation."Yes, sorry she was. Not only morally wrong for the reasons I said but totally illegal. It would have been wrong whatever her age. | |||
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"I think the girl was 15 when he took her virginity on a gym mat in school the same week his wife miscarried their baby, the female judge said he was vulnerable because of this. I have no words." This!!!!! ^^^ | |||
"Even if the girl encouraged it, acted in a 'predatory' manner, etc. etc. he still abused his position of trust. Teachers know what they're signing up for and it's never ok. " Absolutely. The teacher is in a position of responsibility and trust, he's a mature adult and he should know better. She was just a kid. There is no excuse for this, some judges are so out of touch with reality it's unbelievable. What a pathetic excuse for doing it, and the judge fell for it. At least the sentence can hopefully be increased in line with what he should have been given. | |||
"I think the girl was 15 when he took her virginity on a gym mat in school the same week his wife miscarried their baby, the female judge said he was vulnerable because of this. I have no words. This!!!!! ^^^" She was actually 16, not 15. The teacher had been convicted, that is he has been found guilty. The judges remarks are simply mitigating factors she has taken into consideration when deciding the actual sentence. | |||
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"It would still count as statutory rape. The teacher is in a position of power over the pupil. Therefore, it's still illegal. He's a teacher. He know what he signed up for. Completely irresponsible. There is no such thing as statuary rape in this country he is guilty of breach of trust due to his position . Not condoning what he has done but how many 16 year old virgins are around these days I don't know the details, obviously - but it is still illegal." | |||
"It would still count as statutory rape. The teacher is in a position of power over the pupil. Therefore, it's still illegal. He's a teacher. He know what he signed up for. Completely irresponsible. I don't know the details, obviously - but it is still illegal." It's not statutory rape, only sex with an under 13 year old is statutory rape because a person of that age can't legally consent. | |||
"It would still count as statutory rape. The teacher is in a position of power over the pupil. Therefore, it's still illegal. He's a teacher. He know what he signed up for. Completely irresponsible. I don't know the details, obviously - but it is still illegal. This exactly. Legal at 18, same goes for any position where it is deemed you are influential over anyone under 18. (UK)" Age 18 or not if you are a teacher teaching them then it is still classed as breach of trust and is illegal to fuck one of your pupils | |||
"It always surprises me how very little people know the laws surrounding this area - especially given the coverage it gets in media. Age of Consent in the UK - 18 HOWEVER, for people in a position of power of a person (teacher, mentor, doctor etc.) - the age is lower - 16 Educate yourselves "Wrong the age of consent in England and Wales is 16 so instead of telling people to educate themselves ... well no need to day more is there  | |||
"She was 16.... Not 15!" 16 year olds aren't so innocent these days either, anymore than they were when I was that age, the majority of them anyway. | |||
"It always surprises me how very little people know the laws surrounding this area - especially given the coverage it gets in media. Age of Consent in the UK - 18 HOWEVER, for people in a position of power of a person (teacher, mentor, doctor etc.) - the age is lower - 16 Educate yourselves
Wrong the age of consent in England and Wales is 16 so instead of telling people to educate themselves ... well no need to day more is there "If you read the whole thread, you'll see that we've already covered this point. Throughout it, I've said that age of consent is 18 if the person is in a position of trust over the younger one. It was simply me accidentally putting the ages in the wrong place. I'd advise that if anyone is going to comment that they do not believe it, read the whole thread and search online for the full answer. (Not aimed directly at you, Neil) | |||
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"Even if the girl encouraged it, acted in a 'predatory' manner, etc. etc. he still abused his position of trust. Teachers know what they're signing up for and it's never ok. " | |||
"Even if the girl encouraged it, acted in a 'predatory' manner, etc. etc. he still abused his position of trust. Teachers know what they're signing up for and it's never ok. "I agree with that, many young girls now days are far to advanced and she may well have come into him and wanted him but he's the adult, he signed up to be a teacher on the understanding relationships with pupils are never OK, he should have reported her advances and got it stopped | |||
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"He didn't have much thought for anyone, including his wife who lost their baby "It happens all the time. | |||
"All he had to do was say no...difficult sometimes but....still say no....should have told someone about it..she may well have picked on him because of his kind and trusting nature...only the two of them know what really went on.. very sad..two and probably more lives messed up. ." That's the sad thing, and for what - a few shags? Appalling failure of judgement...  | |||
"It would still count as statutory rape. The teacher is in a position of power over the pupil. Therefore, it's still illegal. He's a teacher. He know what he signed up for. Completely irresponsible. I don't know the details, obviously - but it is still illegal. It's not statutory rape, only sex with an under 13 year old is statutory rape because a person of that age can't legally consent. " I think it's 16 normally and 18 if elder trust is involved (see above). I'm not sure if he was charged with rape or something else but, as the age of consent in a situation of elder trust is 18, it could, and probably should, be considered as rape. | |||
"It would still count as statutory rape. The teacher is in a position of power over the pupil. Therefore, it's still illegal. He's a teacher. He know what he signed up for. Completely irresponsible. I don't know the details, obviously - but it is still illegal. This exactly. Legal at 18, same goes for any position where it is deemed you are influential over anyone under 18. (UK) Age 18 or not if you are a teacher teaching them then it is still classed as breach of trust and is illegal to fuck one of your pupils " I'm not sure about that legally, although I totally agree on the moral issues | |||
"It always surprises me how very little people know the laws surrounding this area - especially given the coverage it gets in media. Age of Consent in the UK - 18 HOWEVER, for people in a position of power of a person (teacher, mentor, doctor etc.) - the age is lower - 16 Educate yourselves
Wrong the age of consent in England and Wales is 16 so instead of telling people to educate themselves ... well no need to day more is there "Actually he's right but he just got the 18 and 16 the wrong way round, which he admits in a later post. | |||
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"It would still count as statutory rape. The teacher is in a position of power over the pupil. Therefore, it's still illegal. He's a teacher. He know what he signed up for. Completely irresponsible. I don't know the details, obviously - but it is still illegal." Not if the other party was sixteen at the time, if the are capable of giving consent how can this be rape? Immoral yes but not illegal. | |||
"It would still count as statutory rape. The teacher is in a position of power over the pupil. Therefore, it's still illegal. He's a teacher. He know what he signed up for. Completely irresponsible. I don't know the details, obviously - but it is still illegal. Not if the other party was sixteen at the time, if the are capable of giving consent how can this be rape? Immoral yes but not illegal." Sorry stand corrected I was wrong.... Carry on. | |||
"It would still count as statutory rape. The teacher is in a position of power over the pupil. Therefore, it's still illegal. He's a teacher. He know what he signed up for. Completely irresponsible. I don't know the details, obviously - but it is still illegal. Not if the other party was sixteen at the time, if the are capable of giving consent how can this be rape? Immoral yes but not illegal." YEs that was what I thought of. | |||
"It would still count as statutory rape. The teacher is in a position of power over the pupil. Therefore, it's still illegal. He's a teacher. He know what he signed up for. Completely irresponsible. I don't know the details, obviously - but it is still illegal. Not if the other party was sixteen at the time, if the are capable of giving consent how can this be rape? Immoral yes but not illegal." Please read the entire thread. It is illegal. Statutory rape is different to 'standard' rape. You may both be consenting between yourselves, but at that age a 16 year old cannot (legally) give consent. This only applies if the other party is in a position of trust over the 18 year old. (E.g. Teachers.) | |||
"Sorry stand corrected I was wrong.... Carry on." Apologies, I was writing my reply as you posted again. I hadn't seen you write this yet x | |||
"It would still count as statutory rape. The teacher is in a position of power over the pupil. Therefore, it's still illegal. He's a teacher. He know what he signed up for. Completely irresponsible. I don't know the details, obviously - but it is still illegal. It's not statutory rape, only sex with an under 13 year old is statutory rape because a person of that age can't legally consent. " Statutory rape has nothing to do with age, you can get done for statutory rape if the person consents to sex, but if its deemed they are not in the state of mind to understand what they are consenting to, having sex with any person under the age of 16 is statutory rape as the law says they are not old enough, even if they agree, as is having sex with a d*unk person or someone with mental health problems if its decided they are not mentally able enough or to drink to understand what they are agreeing to | |||
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"The girl groomed the teacher - source bbc news. " Wonder how many years he was grooming her? | |||
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"Sexual Offences Act (2000) "it shall be an offence for a person aged 18 or over— (a)to have sexual intercourse (whether vaginal or anal) with a person under that age; or (b)to engage in any other sexual activity with or directed towards such a person, if (in either case) he is in a position of trust in relation to that person" It's not always an offence e.g. if the two people involved are married (and some other scenarios) If my reading of the above is right... If is is an act carried out by a female over 18 on a male thats OK?
wonder who worded that bit of legislation?"I didn't want to get too boring when I wrote the original note but now I can't resist. First, the quote is from the actual law (Sexual offences amendment 2003), so it's wording isn't subject to any Wikipedia errors. You can google it and find it for yourself if nothing better to do. Secondly, every law that's published by parliament is subject to something called the 'Interpretation Act' which standardises lots of the wording. So as far as he/she goes it says: "In any Act, unless the contrary intention appears,— (a)words importing the masculine gender include the feminine; (b)words importing the feminine gender include the masculine; (c)words in the singular include the plural and words in the plural include the singular" That means that he and she can used interchangeably and those in the know will understand it without having to type he/she/they every time. Anyone still awake after reading this can claim a prize ... maybe a weekend with a parliamentary draughtsman. | |||
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"And he was found guilty of the charges just not sentenced to a custodial sentence and the sentence is up for review as it was very lenient. " The sentence for this conviction cannot be reviewed. The MOJ in trying to appease the mob said it was going to review the sentence but justice has been done. The crime was undoubtly one that needs punishment and that has now taken place. Let it go! | |||
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"All the stuff about statutory rape on here is a bit strange, because all rapes are defined by a statute. So another sexual offences act (2003) defines the offence of rape as: (1)A person (A) commits an offence if— (a)he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis, (b)B does not consent to the penetration, and (c)A does not reasonably believe that B consents. Then the same law defines "rape of a child under 13" as: (1)A person commits an offence if— (a)he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person with his penis, and (b)the other person is under 13 So having sex with a person under 13 is called "rape of a child under 13" (in the law), not statutory rape. Not that nit picking about wording makes any difference to either the legality or the level of immorality. The teacher in the case the OP posted about couldn't be accused of rape of either sort because the girl consented (and was over 13). As most people have said, what he did was wrong, sad, immoral, corrupt, illegal and he was punished based on the sentencing guidelines that applied ... however all the chat about rape doesn't really apply because it appears no one (judge, jury, CPS, police) thought anything else other than the girl gave consent" Hate to be pedantic but from your quotation above, assuming it's accurate and i've no reason to doubt that it is but it sheds a different light on Ched Evans' case. Especially this : (b)B does not consent to the penetration, and (c)A does not reasonably believe that B consents. The key word being "and" at the end of 1) (b). Thus to be guilty, not only was consent not given (per the Judge) but ALSO that Ched Evans' belief that consent had been given HAD to be unreasonable. Given his clear belief that it was given, even to this day, the two conditions were not met, hence Not Guilty. Surely? Care to comment? | |||
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"And he was found guilty of the charges just not sentenced to a custodial sentence and the sentence is up for review as it was very lenient. The sentence for this conviction cannot be reviewed. The MOJ in trying to appease the mob said it was going to review the sentence but justice has been done. The crime was undoubtly one that needs punishment and that has now taken place. Let it go! " Let what go exactly ? | |||
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"As the original OP can I just say....I almost wish I had never bothered? I only asked a question as to wether anyone thought the judge (a woman) was correct in saying that a 16 yr old girl (nothing happened when she was 15... Proved in court) could " groom" a 44 year old "naive" teacher. Personally I thought it was a bit odd. But then I (and no-one else on this thread) saw all the evidence that the judge saw. I suppose it's a bit of a c Shocking indictment on today's society!" Well, you asked if him having sex with her was actually illegal, or not (immoral vs. illegal). Myself and a few others answered that question, but a large number of subsequent posts were debates on what/wasn't the law. I don't think you have to say you should not have bothered. If anything, it's a positive that you did bring it up. Reading the thread, it seems some were actually unaware that it actually was illegal & therefore you've helped bring it to people's attention. | |||
"I'm absolutely amazed at how much judgement and blame is being cast on the teacher and yet next to none in the direction of the pupil!!! Sure I agree, in part anyway, the teacher should of known better and what he did was wrong, yet the 16 year old, clearly, is no angel herself and should herself be reprimanded in some way also" It wouldn't have mattered if the 16 year old was an experienced girl who had had many partners. The fact that he was her teacher means that he acted unlawfully and was found guilty. What form of punishment do you think should have been handed out to the girl ? | |||
"As the original OP can I just say....I almost wish I had never bothered? I only asked a question as to wether anyone thought the judge (a woman) was correct in saying that a 16 yr old girl (nothing happened when she was 15... Proved in court) could " groom" a 44 year old "naive" teacher. Personally I thought it was a bit odd. But then I (and no-one else on this thread) saw all the evidence that the judge saw. I suppose it's a bit of a c Shocking indictment on today's society!" The Judgment made it clear the girl's own friends corroborated the line that it was the girl who did the stalking. Still unlawful though. As it stands. Maybe the law is sometimes wrong? Bit rich that the AG dives on a lenient Judgment/Sentence so quickly though. | |||
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"All the stuff about statutory rape on here is a bit strange, because all rapes are defined by a statute. So another sexual offences act (2003) defines the offence of rape as: (1)A person (A) commits an offence if— (a)he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis, (b)B does not consent to the penetration, and (c)A does not reasonably believe that B consents. Then the same law defines "rape of a child under 13" as: (1)A person commits an offence if— (a)he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person with his penis, and (b)the other person is under 13 So having sex with a person under 13 is called "rape of a child under 13" (in the law), not statutory rape. Not that nit picking about wording makes any difference to either the legality or the level of immorality. The teacher in the case the OP posted about couldn't be accused of rape of either sort because the girl consented (and was over 13). As most people have said, what he did was wrong, sad, immoral, corrupt, illegal and he was punished based on the sentencing guidelines that applied ... however all the chat about rape doesn't really apply because it appears no one (judge, jury, CPS, police) thought anything else other than the girl gave consent Hate to be pedantic but from your quotation above, assuming it's accurate and i've no reason to doubt that it is but it sheds a different light on Ched Evans' case. Especially this : (b)B does not consent to the penetration, and (c)A does not reasonably believe that B consents. The key word being "and" at the end of 1) (b). Thus to be guilty, not only was consent not given (per the Judge) but ALSO that Ched Evans' belief that consent had been given HAD to be unreasonable. Given his clear belief that it was given, even to this day, the two conditions were not met, hence Not Guilty. Surely? Care to comment? " Who me? I'd say that was up to the people who heard the evidence, first in Crown Court and then at the appeal. It's up to the judge to guide the jury about consent, which the appeal court reviewed and said he did it fairly. You can find that if you google R v Ched Evans and get to a web site called crimeline.info: you can see a summary of the evidence as well as a full transcript of the appeal if you want to find out more. So at the trial, after the verdict had been reached and he was sentencing him, the judge said to Evans ".. [the complainant] was in no position to form a capacity to consent to sexual intercourse, and you, when you arrived, must have realised that" The judge has the benefit of hearing all the evidence (including stuff that the jury might not have), superior knowledge of the law and vast experience of trials. How he conducted the trial was upheld by the appeals process. It sounds to me a bit like Ched Evans is on rocky ground. Other opinions are available | |||
"an interesting case..... something you might want to consider to broaden the arguement... a few months ago...... a female teacher was convicted of the same thing.... having sex with a 16 yr old boy in summing up.... the judge said the teacher had become been nieve and had that she has fallen in love with him.... she was given a suspended sentence...... the same as this gent got.... outrage at that decision........ erm...... none!!!! I think there is a serious case of "double standard" being played here..... not saying he shouldn't have gotten a custodial sentence, just saying that it looks like the law is not being applied equally........" Good point. Though you do say that it was the Female teacher fell in love with the boy (the chaser), so maybe she should have got worse than the male teacher (the chased)got. Maybe she did. | |||
"an interesting case..... something you might want to consider to broaden the arguement... a few months ago...... a female teacher was convicted of the same thing.... having sex with a 16 yr old boy in summing up.... the judge said the teacher had become been nieve and had that she has fallen in love with him.... she was given a suspended sentence...... the same as this gent got.... outrage at that decision........ erm...... none!!!! I think there is a serious case of "double standard" being played here..... not saying he shouldn't have gotten a custodial sentence, just saying that it looks like the law is not being applied equally........ Good point. Though you do say that it was the Female teacher fell in love with the boy (the chaser), so maybe she should have got worse than the male teacher (the chased)got. Maybe she did. " If that was Kelly Burgess, she got a 10 month sentence suspended for 2 years for a sexual relationship with a schoolboy. The man in the current case got 18 months suspended for 18 months, didn't he? Both ended up on the sex offenders register. That sounds like roughly equal treatment doesn't it? | |||
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" If that was Kelly Burgess, she got a 10 month sentence suspended for 2 years for a sexual relationship with a schoolboy. The man in the current case got 18 months suspended for 18 months, didn't he? Both ended up on the sex offenders register. That sounds like roughly equal treatment doesn't it?" so far..... but you know here all the cries from the womens groups saying that it should be reviewed and be sent to the court of appeal for being unduely lienient... also they are calling for the judge to be investigated.... none of that in the kelly burgess case... not a peep | |||
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"16 is the legal age I consent in thi country so why a big deal is being made I don't know, the only thing he's done that he shouldn't have done was sleep with a pupil/student I'm sure teachers sign contracts to say they won't do things like that, so lose his job fine but the judge made a good call coz he slept with an adult not a child" 18 for those in a 'position of trust over the individual'. He was clear wrong to get involved with the girl. | |||
" If that was Kelly Burgess, she got a 10 month sentence suspended for 2 years for a sexual relationship with a schoolboy. The man in the current case got 18 months suspended for 18 months, didn't he? Both ended up on the sex offenders register. That sounds like roughly equal treatment doesn't it? so far..... but you know here all the cries from the womens groups saying that it should be reviewed and be sent to the court of appeal for being unduely lienient... also they are calling for the judge to be investigated.... none of that in the kelly burgess case... not a peep" A few people have already commented that this sentence can't be reviewed under the 'unduly lenient sentences' scheme. The courts can only be forced to review sentences of certain crimes and this isn't one of them. If people don't like the way this man was sentenced, no power on earth is going to stop them from going on and on and on about it. This is (still) a democratic country with some freedom of speech, so they're entitled to exercise it. It's not enough for them that he's wrecked his career (can never teach again), is now a registered sex offender and has a prison sentence hanging over him, plus god knows what harm to his family. It sounds to me like he's been punished just as the young woman was in the other case. It makes you wonder what sort of punishment would satisfy people who are complaining BUT haven't heard any evidence and don't have the experience or knowledge of the judge. We don't need to hang, draw and quarter every offender to make a point to the masses, do we? This for a consensual but wrong relationship. | |||
"It always surprises me how very little people know the laws surrounding this area - especially given the coverage it gets in media. Age of Consent in the UK - 18 HOWEVER, for people in a position of power of a person (teacher, mentor, doctor etc.) - the age is lower - 16 Educate yourselves "a don know about England mate but up here in Scotland the legal age of consent is 16, at 16 we can have sex, get married, have kids, get our own house & get a job, the only place it's 18 that I know of is most states in America. & btw the age of consent is bullshit anyway until every country on the planet agrees to the same age for this it really doesn't matter coz in country's like Spain the age of consent is 13 other country's it's younger so until this all gets sorted out "which it never will" I'm going to not get mad even though I don't know the guy or girl & I'll stay out of the modern day witch hunt | |||
"16 is the legal age I consent in thi country so why a big deal is being made I don't know, the only thing he's done that he shouldn't have done was sleep with a pupil/student I'm sure teachers sign contracts to say they won't do things like that, so lose his job fine but the judge made a good call coz he slept with an adult not a child" You may have missed one or two of the earlier posts. It is illegal for a teacher to have sex with a pupil in full time education who is under the age of 18. If you by any chance happen to be a teacher and are doing this, you run the risk of a sentence of up to 5 years. | |||
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"16 is the legal age I consent in thi country so why a big deal is being made I don't know, the only thing he's done that he shouldn't have done was sleep with a pupil/student I'm sure teachers sign contracts to say they won't do things like that, so lose his job fine but the judge made a good call coz he slept with an adult not a child 18 for those in a 'position of trust over the individual'. He was clear wrong to get involved with the girl." Plus sex aside since when was a 16 year old an adult in this country? | |||
"16 is the legal age I consent in thi country so why a big deal is being made I don't know, the only thing he's done that he shouldn't have done was sleep with a pupil/student I'm sure teachers sign contracts to say they won't do things like that, so lose his job fine but the judge made a good call coz he slept with an adult not a child18 for those in a 'position of trust over the individual'. He was clear wrong to get involved with the girl." did I not say that he's a teacher he signed a contract saying he wouldn't YES he should have known better but either way you look at it he slept with an adult he's done nothing wrong "stupid" but not wrong, people are just looking for a reason to get mad & violent it's human nature, people should be more like me & just simply not give a fuck if its not happening to me or anyone I love who cares! | |||
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"It always surprises me how very little people know the laws surrounding this area - especially given the coverage it gets in media. Age of Consent in the UK - 18 HOWEVER, for people in a position of power of a person (teacher, mentor, doctor etc.) - the age is lower - 16 Educate yourselves a don know about England mate but up here in Scotland the legal age of consent is 16, at 16 we can have sex, get married, have kids, get our own house & get a job, the only place it's 18 that I know of is most states in America. & btw the age of consent is bullshit anyway until every country on the planet agrees to the same age for this it really doesn't matter coz in country's like Spain the age of consent is 13 other country's it's younger so until this all gets sorted out "which it never will" I'm going to not get mad even though I don't know the guy or girl & I'll stay out of the modern day witch hunt "I think if you look it up you'll find that a similar law applies to Scotland too. | |||
"that teacher goes to bed tonight...closes his eyes for 20 minutes....suddenly opens them and says "not fucking guilty !"in an astonished voice...then his lips will twitch as a smile fights its way out of his lying nonce face "I must say, i did find it incredible that he plead Not Guilty. Perhaps his sentence should have been stiffer for that aspect. | |||
"Funny.... The outraged fully supported the judicial system in the Ched Evans case. In this case it is all wrong. Perhaps the British justice is wrong or perhaps the social media enabled outraged in society should just get a life. Just saying .... " | |||
"It always surprises me how very little people know the laws surrounding this area - especially given the coverage it gets in media. Age of Consent in the UK - 18 HOWEVER, for people in a position of power of a person (teacher, mentor, doctor etc.) - the age is lower - 16 Educate yourselves a don know about England mate but up here in Scotland the legal age of consent is 16, at 16 we can have sex, get married, have kids, get our own house & get a job, the only place it's 18 that I know of is most states in America. & btw the age of consent is bullshit anyway until every country on the planet agrees to the same age for this it really doesn't matter coz in country's like Spain the age of consent is 13 other country's it's younger so until this all gets sorted out "which it never will" I'm going to not get mad even though I don't know the guy or girl & I'll stay out of the modern day witch hunt
I think if you look it up you'll find that a similar law applies to Scotland too. "how many times & how many ways do I need to say YE for TEACHERS I'm not a teacher so this rule does not apply to me, for me & anyone else who isn't in that position, the LEGAL age of consent is 16 FACT & to the guy that called him a nonse "had to google that word" English word for pedo, he clearly not a pedo the girl was 16 it's legal, | |||
"It always surprises me how very little people know the laws surrounding this area - especially given the coverage it gets in media. Age of Consent in the UK - 18 HOWEVER, for people in a position of power of a person (teacher, mentor, doctor etc.) - the age is lower - 16 Educate yourselves a don know about England mate but up here in Scotland the legal age of consent is 16, at 16 we can have sex, get married, have kids, get our own house & get a job, the only place it's 18 that I know of is most states in America. & btw the age of consent is bullshit anyway until every country on the planet agrees to the same age for this it really doesn't matter coz in country's like Spain the age of consent is 13 other country's it's younger so until this all gets sorted out "which it never will" I'm going to not get mad even though I don't know the guy or girl & I'll stay out of the modern day witch hunt
I think if you look it up you'll find that a similar law applies to Scotland too. how many times & how many ways do I need to say YE for TEACHERS I'm not a teacher so this rule does not apply to me, for me & anyone else who isn't in that position, the LEGAL age of consent is 16 FACT & to the guy that called him a nonse "had to google that word" English word for pedo, he clearly not a pedo the girl was 16 it's legal, "he did break a law "apparently" but not the one that woul have made him a pedo | |||
"that teacher goes to bed tonight...closes his eyes for 20 minutes....suddenly opens them and says "not fucking guilty !"in an astonished voice...then his lips will twitch as a smile fights its way out of his lying nonce face
I must say, i did find it incredible that he plead Not Guilty.
Perhaps his sentence should have been stiffer for that aspect. "The jury found him not guilty of 6 out of 8 charges. That sounds like a good enough reason to plead not guilty? He would automatically have lost any 'discount' that he would have been eligible for for an nearly guilty plea so his sentence would have been harsher than the guidelines. | |||
