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9 year old destroys Santa for a 5 year old
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Or that mum & dad have to buy some things that Santa hasn't been able to find ....
or have heard some say that Santa brings all the presents in the Christmas stocking, but mum & dad have to help with some of the others |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How would you deal with a 9 year old who has just told a 5 year old that Santa doesn't exist and that Mums and Dads buy all presents? "
Tell them they're from Romania and adopted.  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"well he was going to find out somewhen."
Sensitive as always Hilda! Childhood innocence and the wonder of Santa is something that should be allowed to last for as long as possible. The unwritten rule for older kids as always been not to ruin that story for the younger ones. I think it is one of the meanest things you could do to a young kid. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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we used to say once they started to ask for special presents and making their own lists , mum and dad bought, wrapped and labelled (to make sure right pressie got to right person) - and then we sent them off to santa and if they were good he decided whether or not they got them - mine believed so intensely that when we were moving house the first thing we had to find was the fairy door so they could get in to open the door for santa (lack of chimneys etc) - this was an airbrick in the last house - such a magical time |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"well he was going to find out somewhen.
Sensitive as always Hilda! Childhood innocence and the wonder of Santa is something that should be allowed to last for as long as possible. The unwritten rule for older kids as always been not to ruin that story for the younger ones. I think it is one of the meanest things you could do to a young kid."
Yes but think about it, you could possibly say it was lying and a lot of kids aren't that stupid and they just pretend to believe sometimes.  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"well he was going to find out somewhen.
Sensitive as always Hilda! Childhood innocence and the wonder of Santa is something that should be allowed to last for as long as possible. The unwritten rule for older kids as always been not to ruin that story for the younger ones. I think it is one of the meanest things you could do to a young kid.
Yes but think about it, you could possibly say it was lying and a lot of kids aren't that stupid and they just pretend to believe sometimes. "
5 is too young to even be questioning it. Of course as they get older kids play up to it to make sure they get what they want. |
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"Just tell him his Big brother is telling lies..
It wasn't her brother. Very nasty of the kid to do it."
Whoever it was !! just tell your kid they are lying bastards.. and your about to Report them to Santa.. Act all angry and that should buy you a few more years with a kid that believes in santa lol..  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"well he was going to find out somewhen.
Sensitive as always Hilda! Childhood innocence and the wonder of Santa is something that should be allowed to last for as long as possible. The unwritten rule for older kids as always been not to ruin that story for the younger ones. I think it is one of the meanest things you could do to a young kid.
Yes but think about it, you could possibly say it was lying and a lot of kids aren't that stupid and they just pretend to believe sometimes.
5 is too young to even be questioning it. Of course as they get older kids play up to it to make sure they get what they want."
5 years old, really, maybe its being a bit patronising to a 5 year old to suggest they wouldn't question it. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"well he was going to find out somewhen.
Sensitive as always Hilda! Childhood innocence and the wonder of Santa is something that should be allowed to last for as long as possible. The unwritten rule for older kids as always been not to ruin that story for the younger ones. I think it is one of the meanest things you could do to a young kid.
Yes but think about it, you could possibly say it was lying and a lot of kids aren't that stupid and they just pretend to believe sometimes.
5 is too young to even be questioning it. Of course as they get older kids play up to it to make sure they get what they want.
5 years old, really, maybe its being a bit patronising to a 5 year old to suggest they wouldn't question it."
Questions like "how does Santa get down the chimney" and "how does he visit all the children", yes, I've had that, but never once "does Santa really exist". For older kids to tell a youngster that is just mean in my opinion and shows a real lack of empathy. Most older kids who know the truth love prolonging the magic for the younger ones. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Lets face it, many of us found out from our older brothers or sisters. In situations like this you have to think quickly on your feet. Mine were told that I was a helper for Father Christmas |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Lets face it, many of us found out from our older brothers or sisters. In situations like this you have to think quickly on your feet. Mine were told that I was a helper for Father Christmas "
She has a brother who is quite a bit older who has loved her belief in Santa and playing up to the magic. I suspect he may well punch the 9 year old when he gets the chance he is that cross (nice to see him being protective but I will stop him doing any punching!). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I've just read the other comments, sorry I realise now it wasn't an order sibling.
Dont make a big issue over it, just tell the younger child that the order one was being silly and doesn't believe in magic and special children what have magic in their hearts will know that Father Christmas is real, or something along the lines. It will be ok |
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Tell the 9 yr old if he doesnt believe in santa what are the chances of him getting any gifts this year.. Would love to see his face on xmas morning when there is sod all but a few nuts and an orange and a choc selection pack in his stocking..
dare you to try it .. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Tell the 9 yr old if he doesnt believe in santa what are the chances of him getting any gifts this year.. Would love to see his face on xmas morning when there is sod all but a few nuts and an orange and a choc selection pack in his stocking..
dare you to try it .."
If it were my kid that is exactly what I would do! |
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I never fell for the Santa story from as far back as I can remember. A very early memory from around 4 or 5 was reading the labels, from auntie so and so, uncle thingy, and thinking that Santa didn't really exist. Plus the whole logistics of the situation, that number of presents in such a short time frame. Also, the visits to Santa's grotto to sit on an old blokes lap who was obviously wearing a beard.
I pretended I believed for years so as not to ruin it for the parents. |
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"Tell the 9 yr old if he doesnt believe in santa what are the chances of him getting any gifts this year.. Would love to see his face on xmas morning when there is sod all but a few nuts and an orange and a choc selection pack in his stocking..
dare you to try it ..
If it were my kid that is exactly what I would do!"
hear hear..  Then give it half an hour and find the presents lol.. |
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now i would be even more cruel to the person that ruined someones time for father xmas
id fill there stoking with coal or briquettes just for the xmas morning and the other stoking with all goodies in it
id love to see there face of them just to see the coal left behind and a while latter find the real presents for them |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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My grandchildren get one gift from Santa not a whole sackful. I would just say to the child yes he is real and wait until Christmas when you get your gift in your stocking |
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"Just tell him his Big brother is telling lies..
It wasn't her brother. Very nasty of the kid to do it.
Whoever it was !! just tell your kid they are lying bastards.. and your about to Report them to Santa.. Act all angry and that should buy you a few more years with a kid that believes in santa lol..
"
I also like this comment but don't tell the kid they are lying bastards.. Its hard enough to get around them the Santa problem without cursing at them too  |
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"Just tell him his Big brother is telling lies..
It wasn't her brother. Very nasty of the kid to do it.
Whoever it was !! just tell your kid they are lying bastards.. and your about to Report them to Santa.. Act all angry and that should buy you a few more years with a kid that believes in santa lol..
I also like this comment but don't tell the kid they are lying bastards.. Its hard enough to get around them the Santa problem without cursing at them too "
Sorry but they are Lying Bastards.. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Just tell him his Big brother is telling lies..
It wasn't her brother. Very nasty of the kid to do it.
Whoever it was !! just tell your kid they are lying bastards.. and your about to Report them to Santa.. Act all angry and that should buy you a few more years with a kid that believes in santa lol..
I also like this comment but don't tell the kid they are lying bastards.. Its hard enough to get around them the Santa problem without cursing at them too
Sorry but they are Lying Bastards.. "
Well technically they are telling the truth and parents are the lying bastards, but I agree with the point! I would use the term "little shits". |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I got over it and live a fairly normal life now. Apart from the fact that I enjoy swinging and I don't think she does. She's still a bitch tho lol  "
Well if you would like me to come and fill your stocking this Xmas you only need to ask |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Like OP have said say yes if course mummy an daddy buy presents as do brothers and sisters. It's the presents that are labelled off Santa that they haven't bought, other than that get a pal to call your house pretending to be Santa and get him to speak to the lad! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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One of our daughters asked her girls to write their xmas list. Sophie ( 11) did hers and when she asked Bethan why she hadn't done one she said, 'I dont need to cos Santa's got me what I want upto now so he will know whst I want this year'. |
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"Just tell him his Big brother is telling lies..
It wasn't her brother. Very nasty of the kid to do it."
Are you really serious ?
You ask how to 'deal' with a child of 9 who told the truth ?
YOu call the child of 9 nasty for telling the truth.
Listen to yourself |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I make footprints on our hearth in flour. My son who is nearly 6 still believes.
I'm hoping he'll last til at least 8?
X "
My eldest lasted to 11 - maybe because he went to Lapland which really was magical. |
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"Tell the 9 yr old if he doesnt believe in santa what are the chances of him getting any gifts this year.. Would love to see his face on xmas morning when there is sod all but a few nuts and an orange and a choc selection pack in his stocking..
dare you to try it ..
If it were my kid that is exactly what I would do!"
Are you aware that the age of criminal responsibility is 10?
So far you've called him nasty, want him dealt with, secretly want someone else to punch him and applaud the idea of him waking up to no gifts on Christmas day and all for telling someone something he's learned.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Tell the 9 yr old if he doesnt believe in santa what are the chances of him getting any gifts this year.. Would love to see his face on xmas morning when there is sod all but a few nuts and an orange and a choc selection pack in his stocking..
dare you to try it ..
If it were my kid that is exactly what I would do!
Are you aware that the age of criminal responsibility is 10?
So far you've called him nasty, want him dealt with, secretly want someone else to punch him and applaud the idea of him waking up to no gifts on Christmas day and all for telling someone something he's learned.
"
Criminal responsibility? I think a bit of perspective has been lost. Yes I do think it is nasty and yes he does lack empathy based on other issues we have had with him. But as I made clear, of course I would not want to see him punched and if he were my son, it would have been made very clear to him not to ruin the Santa illusion to a younger child, and had he done that in a willful way, as was done here, then there would have been consequences. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Tell the 9 yr old if he doesnt believe in santa what are the chances of him getting any gifts this year.. Would love to see his face on xmas morning when there is sod all but a few nuts and an orange and a choc selection pack in his stocking..
dare you to try it ..
If it were my kid that is exactly what I would do!
Are you aware that the age of criminal responsibility is 10?
So far you've called him nasty, want him dealt with, secretly want someone else to punch him and applaud the idea of him waking up to no gifts on Christmas day and all for telling someone something he's learned.
"
Funny how threads go quiet when someone speaks common sense at last.
Yes it's a little sad your 5year old has been told the truth but she's hardly "the poor child" as some have exclaimed. She has a home and a father who loves her, she's not starving or living in a war zone, she's just had another child tell her something you don't want her to know. You're over reacting. You maintained the lie of Father Christmas for 5 years so how difficult will it be to get her to believe the other child is wrong and you, her trusted daddy is right?
And don't forget the 9 year old is a child too. I don't know his circumstances but I do know how it feels to be a 9 year old that's found out Father Christmas isn't real, that my parents have been lying to me all my life, and not understand the adult desire to create a fantasy world for a child. I remember it being upsetting and confusing and then accepting it and thinking it was ok to pass the truth along! I wasn't told i had to lie to younger children and so told a friend who was 2 years younger and got shouted at by both sets of parents for doing so. Obviously the hurt and unfairness has stayed in my memory, the reason being i was a child and it was wrong for those adults to shout at me and scare me because i didn't understand the need to protect their lies. |
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"He is 9. Maybe he didn't ever get told not to tell 5 year olds there is no Santa and just came out with it.
I cant understand the venom for a kid though  "
We don't know if it was told with venom, malice, hatred or pure honesty.
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"Tell the 9 yr old if he doesnt believe in santa what are the chances of him getting any gifts this year.. Would love to see his face on xmas morning when there is sod all but a few nuts and an orange and a choc selection pack in his stocking..
dare you to try it ..
If it were my kid that is exactly what I would do!
Are you aware that the age of criminal responsibility is 10?
So far you've called him nasty, want him dealt with, secretly want someone else to punch him and applaud the idea of him waking up to no gifts on Christmas day and all for telling someone something he's learned.
Funny how threads go quiet when someone speaks common sense at last.
Yes it's a little sad your 5year old has been told the truth but she's hardly "the poor child" as some have exclaimed. She has a home and a father who loves her, she's not starving or living in a war zone, she's just had another child tell her something you don't want her to know. You're over reacting. You maintained the lie of Father Christmas for 5 years so how difficult will it be to get her to believe the other child is wrong and you, her trusted daddy is right?
And don't forget the 9 year old is a child too. I don't know his circumstances but I do know how it feels to be a 9 year old that's found out Father Christmas isn't real, that my parents have been lying to me all my life, and not understand the adult desire to create a fantasy world for a child. I remember it being upsetting and confusing and then accepting it and thinking it was ok to pass the truth along! I wasn't told i had to lie to younger children and so told a friend who was 2 years younger and got shouted at by both sets of parents for doing so. Obviously the hurt and unfairness has stayed in my memory, the reason being i was a child and it was wrong for those adults to shout at me and scare me because i didn't understand the need to protect their lies."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How would you deal with a 9 year old who has just told a 5 year old that Santa doesn't exist and that Mums and Dads buy all presents? "
Tell the 9yr old he was abandoned by gypsy's and they are coming back to collect him when he is 10. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The perspective was lost long before the thread was started.
He's NINE.
"
He knew exactly what he was doing and he knew it was wrong, but he is 9 so all will be forgiven, but it doesn't excuse someone being mean and nasty. To put it in context I was at a party last week with a load of kids from 3-17. There was loads of chat about Santa but not one of the kids who knew the reality felt the need to tell the younger ones. I don't blame the kid, but do I think it was mean and nasty, yes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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My daughter was 7 when she was told Santa wasn't real, I was gutted because it wasn't another child that told her but her dad's partner. She also told her the tooth fairy wasn't real. I was so sorry for my daughter and very angry with her dad's partner.
I loved the magic of Christmas and seeing her eyes light up with joy when she woke up Christmas morning to gifts she thought had been delivered by Santa and his reindeer |
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"Tell the 9 yr old if he doesnt believe in santa what are the chances of him getting any gifts this year.. Would love to see his face on xmas morning when there is sod all but a few nuts and an orange and a choc selection pack in his stocking..
dare you to try it ..
If it were my kid that is exactly what I would do!
Are you aware that the age of criminal responsibility is 10?
So far you've called him nasty, want him dealt with, secretly want someone else to punch him and applaud the idea of him waking up to no gifts on Christmas day and all for telling someone something he's learned.
Funny how threads go quiet when someone speaks common sense at last.
Yes it's a little sad your 5year old has been told the truth but she's hardly "the poor child" as some have exclaimed. She has a home and a father who loves her, she's not starving or living in a war zone, she's just had another child tell her something you don't want her to know. You're over reacting. You maintained the lie of Father Christmas for 5 years so how difficult will it be to get her to believe the other child is wrong and you, her trusted daddy is right?
And don't forget the 9 year old is a child too. I don't know his circumstances but I do know how it feels to be a 9 year old that's found out Father Christmas isn't real, that my parents have been lying to me all my life, and not understand the adult desire to create a fantasy world for a child. I remember it being upsetting and confusing and then accepting it and thinking it was ok to pass the truth along! I wasn't told i had to lie to younger children and so told a friend who was 2 years younger and got shouted at by both sets of parents for doing so. Obviously the hurt and unfairness has stayed in my memory, the reason being i was a child and it was wrong for those adults to shout at me and scare me because i didn't understand the need to protect their lies."
The 9yr old isn't lying. Because Santa isn't real. |
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"The perspective was lost long before the thread was started.
He's NINE.
He knew exactly what he was doing and he knew it was wrong, but he is 9 so all will be forgiven, but it doesn't excuse someone being mean and nasty. To put it in context I was at a party last week with a load of kids from 3-17. There was loads of chat about Santa but not one of the kids who knew the reality felt the need to tell the younger ones. I don't blame the kid, but do I think it was mean and nasty, yes. "
you don't blame him BUT it was mean and nasty ....
If he is without blame ...... he can't have been mean and nasty.
If you say he was mean and nasty then you believe he was intentionally mean and nasty and you do blame him.
The upshot is that YOU are upset. Your secret is out before you wanted it to be.
It's easier to admit your own feelings and not demonise children for doing childish things.
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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago
Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum |
"I'm sorry, we're talking about a kid here aren't we? Why should they be punished for telling the truth?
Stop being so bloody reasonable and adult !"
I would have been a hell of a lot angrier if I found out my daughter lied. Who gives a crap about some lie we tell children to make them behave? The 5 year old will have forgotten it by tomorrow. |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"The perspective was lost long before the thread was started.
He's NINE.
He knew exactly what he was doing and he knew it was wrong, but he is 9 so all will be forgiven, but it doesn't excuse someone being mean and nasty. To put it in context I was at a party last week with a load of kids from 3-17. There was loads of chat about Santa but not one of the kids who knew the reality felt the need to tell the younger ones. I don't blame the kid, but do I think it was mean and nasty, yes. "
You sure do sound like you blame the kid or you wouldn't have written all your posts the way you did.
A question...is this kid known to you or is this something someone told you? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The perspective was lost long before the thread was started.
He's NINE.
He knew exactly what he was doing and he knew it was wrong, but he is 9 so all will be forgiven, but it doesn't excuse someone being mean and nasty. To put it in context I was at a party last week with a load of kids from 3-17. There was loads of chat about Santa but not one of the kids who knew the reality felt the need to tell the younger ones. I don't blame the kid, but do I think it was mean and nasty, yes.
you don't blame him BUT it was mean and nasty ....
If he is without blame ...... he can't have been mean and nasty.
If you say he was mean and nasty then you believe he was intentionally mean and nasty and you do blame him.
The upshot is that YOU are upset. Your secret is out before you wanted it to be.
It's easier to admit your own feelings and not demonise children for doing childish things.
"
Perhaps because I know the boy, and you don't, I know that it was mean and nasty, it is not the first time he has upset my child and I very much doubt it will be the last. But as I said, I don't blame him for a variety of reasons which I won't share on here. |
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" I don't blame the kid, but do I think it was mean and nasty, yes. "
there are times when being a parent that stuff happens which will upset or hurt them and they will learn from such experiences..
one of the most important things they will learn is how the 'adults' deal with it as that is one way we as parents teach them to deal with whatever..
mean yes, mean and nasty is imho over the top..
its done and that cant be changed but instead of being angry think positively about how to still make Christmas a magical time for the lad .. |
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By *ipsTeaserCouple
over a year ago
here and there, thereabouts |
I dont think it's wrong for the op to be upset or annoyed.
Today childhood is placed under many pressures that shorten it. I don't believe it is so bad to want your child to Be a child for as long as they can be.father Christmas one other way to add magic.
Yes the 9 year old is telling the truth, and yes the 5 year old will find out eventually but it didnt have to be now. |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"
Perhaps because I know the boy, and you don't, I know that it was mean and nasty, it is not the first time he has upset my child and I very much doubt it will be the last. But as I said, I don't blame him for a variety of reasons which I won't share on here. "
Ah you answered my question.
If you don't blame him because of reasons you know of, then you wouldn't have posted any comments at all.
Stand my your posts, you blamed the little shit for telling your kid and you think he is nasty |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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" I don't blame the kid, but do I think it was mean and nasty, yes.
there are times when being a parent that stuff happens which will upset or hurt them and they will learn from such experiences..
one of the most important things they will learn is how the 'adults' deal with it as that is one way we as parents teach them to deal with whatever..
mean yes, mean and nasty is imho over the top..
its done and that cant be changed but instead of being angry think positively about how to still make Christmas a magical time for the lad .."
Perhaps because it is not an isolated incident I am somewhat prejudiced. But I stand by my mean and nasty comment. And the lad is a she  , and I will make sure Christmas is wonderful for her as always. |
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" I don't blame the kid, but do I think it was mean and nasty, yes.
there are times when being a parent that stuff happens which will upset or hurt them and they will learn from such experiences..
one of the most important things they will learn is how the 'adults' deal with it as that is one way we as parents teach them to deal with whatever..
mean yes, mean and nasty is imho over the top..
its done and that cant be changed but instead of being angry think positively about how to still make Christmas a magical time for the lad ..
Perhaps because it is not an isolated incident I am somewhat prejudiced. But I stand by my mean and nasty comment. And the lad is a she , and I will make sure Christmas is wonderful for her as always. "
apologies for my gender mix up..
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I dont think it's wrong for the op to be upset or annoyed.
Today childhood is placed under many pressures that shorten it. I don't believe it is so bad to want your child to Be a child for as long as they can be.father Christmas one other way to add magic.
Yes the 9 year old is telling the truth, and yes the 5 year old will find out eventually but it didnt have to be now."
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
Perhaps because I know the boy, and you don't, I know that it was mean and nasty, it is not the first time he has upset my child and I very much doubt it will be the last. But as I said, I don't blame him for a variety of reasons which I won't share on here.
Ah you answered my question.
If you don't blame him because of reasons you know of, then you wouldn't have posted any comments at all.
Stand my your posts, you blamed the little shit for telling your kid and you think he is nasty"
I stand by everything I have said. Some was tongue in cheek, which has been lost on you. But I don't blame him and as I have said I won't elaborate on why, but that doesn't stop me thinking he has been wilfully mean and nasty. Not blaming him and believing him to be mean and nasty are not mutually exclusive. |
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" I don't blame the kid, but do I think it was mean and nasty, yes.
there are times when being a parent that stuff happens which will upset or hurt them and they will learn from such experiences..
one of the most important things they will learn is how the 'adults' deal with it as that is one way we as parents teach them to deal with whatever..
mean yes, mean and nasty is imho over the top..
its done and that cant be changed but instead of being angry think positively about how to still make Christmas a magical time for the lad ..
Perhaps because it is not an isolated incident I am somewhat prejudiced. But I stand by my mean and nasty comment. And the lad is a she , and I will make sure Christmas is wonderful for her as always.
apologies for my gender mix up..
"
Wasn't your mix up. The O.P. refers to the child as 'him' pre and post pointing out that it's a she .....
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"
I stand by everything I have said. Some was tongue in cheek, which has been lost on you. ."
I have commented on only certain posts of yours that didn't seem tongue in cheek at all....in fact all your posts seem serious.
Maybe give me a clue at which ones which has been lost on me.
A question, are you getting defensive because I said stand by your convictions instead of backtracking or because a couple of people turned up saying the b9 year old is getting a lot of stick rather than saying " the poor five year old "?
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By *ipsTeaserCouple
over a year ago
here and there, thereabouts |
"
I stand by everything I have said. Some was tongue in cheek, which has been lost on you. .
I have commented on only certain posts of yours that didn't seem tongue in cheek at all....in fact all your posts seem serious.
Maybe give me a clue at which ones which has been lost on me.
A question, are you getting defensive because I said stand by your convictions instead of backtracking or because a couple of people turned up saying the b9 year old is getting a lot of stick rather than saying " the poor five year old "?
"
And what exactly is wrong in your opinion with saying "the poor five year old"?
It's possible to express sympathy to the 5th old and still acknowledge things that may have ment the 9yr old was not entirely at fault
Said 5am old has just had a huge chunk of belief taken away, it's a big part of their world at this time and a lot for a child that young to make sense of.there's a reason kids believe at that age and a reason the realisation that things like santa, the easter bunny and tooth fairy aren't really follows at a later age.
It's possible to understand the defence of the 9 year old by posters; however why is it so difficult to understamd sympathy expressed to a CHILD whos potentially had their world turned upside down. |
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"How would you deal with a 9 year old who has just told a 5 year old that Santa doesn't exist and that Mums and Dads buy all presents? "
you don't need to deal with the 9 year old as not your child . More productive to spend your time on your 5 year old . She may not even believe the 9 year old, and just alil chat with you about it is all that's needed. Most young children want to believe the magic, so might not actually be a big problem.
There's always things that could be said or natural curiosity to be dealt with . That's not what matters , only the way you handle it .Which I'm sure you'll in the best way for the wee one.x
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"Our son was told if he stopped believing in Father Christmas he'd get less presemts. It was funny how that firmed up his belief "
Lol yes used that one years back.Also the NORAD track Santa site.Showing his journey through out Christmas eve . |
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When I (f) was little we always went to my grans the last Sunday before Christmas, to exchange presents, my Mum had 6 sisters and there where a hell of a lot of cousins. The present cam home and where left by the fireplace for Santa's Helpers' to collect. Do you know, they had gone by morning, to magically appear when Santa delivered them Christmas morning |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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this may sound silly but it worked for my little god daughter when her brother said santa wasnt real rent the film miracle on 34th st with richard attenbourgh n let her see another little girl who doubted santa find her belief xxxxxxx |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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1 who the fucks Santa!! when did all the Americans join this website.
2 telling young children that strange old men break in at midnight and creep around there bed is never good idea in the first place... That is Unless you live next door to Rolf Harris |
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By *uslaffMan
over a year ago
manchester |
We had the same issue years ago,but it was our 6 year old daughter telling our 9 year old son. He told us she had said how could Santa fit down the chimney with all those presents.
She was very analytical as a child,he wasn't |
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By *uslaffMan
over a year ago
manchester |
"1 who the fucks Santa!! when did all the Americans join this website.
2 telling young children that strange old men break in at midnight and creep around there bed is never good idea in the first place... That is Unless you live next door to Rolf Harris"
Hilarious |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"this may sound silly but it worked for my little god daughter when her brother said santa wasnt real rent the film miracle on 34th st with richard attenbourgh n let her see another little girl who doubted santa find her belief xxxxxxx "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The whole santa thing is very odd. Kids getting told not to lie yet their parents lie and add more lies to keep the lie going, deny the lie then get pissed off when a kid tells the truth.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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How about this for disgusting last week my seven yr old grandson rang me very upset.
He is from mixed relationship his dad and his family are muslims and he goes to catholic school big plus is he can get different perspectives so in time can make informed choice as to which if any religion he follows.
He was talking about xmas to the gran who said good muslims do not celebrate or believe in xmas and santa is not real for fucks sake.
My daughter rightly so had a go at her and it took me nearly another hour to convince him his gran is confused because just because she never saw santa does not meal he real.
Kids telling others is bad enought but adults doing it is nothing short of disgraceful. |
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"
I stand by everything I have said. Some was tongue in cheek, which has been lost on you. .
I have commented on only certain posts of yours that didn't seem tongue in cheek at all....in fact all your posts seem serious.
Maybe give me a clue at which ones which has been lost on me.
A question, are you getting defensive because I said stand by your convictions instead of backtracking or because a couple of people turned up saying the b9 year old is getting a lot of stick rather than saying " the poor five year old "?
And what exactly is wrong in your opinion with saying "the poor five year old"?
."
I think children should be kept children as long as we can and it is a shame that the five year old was told this early on that FC doesn't exist.
I didn't say people are wrong for saying that, I didn't say people are wrong for saying the 9 year old is getting a rough deal either.
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By *ugby 123Couple
over a year ago
Forum Mod O o O oo |
"The whole santa thing is very odd. Kids getting told not to lie yet their parents lie and add more lies to keep the lie going, deny the lie then get pissed off when a kid tells the truth.
"
Funnily enough I just wrote that on my post and then deleted it to write it separate.
Don't get me wrong we obviously lied too to ours, but it is a strange world isn't it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The whole santa thing is very odd. Kids getting told not to lie yet their parents lie and add more lies to keep the lie going, deny the lie then get pissed off when a kid tells the truth.
Funnily enough I just wrote that on my post and then deleted it to write it separate.
Don't get me wrong we obviously lied too to ours, but it is a strange world isn't it. "
I guess it is weird but maybe we perpetuate the myth because we remember how nice it was to be innocent and have those magical beliefs. I can still remember the excitement as a child of seeing what Santa had put in my pillowcase. I never really thought of it as my parents lying to me. It was more recognising it as a fantasy that made my childhood more fun |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I had my five year old ask if Father Christmas is real?
He does this a lot. Is spiderman real? Are crocodiles real?
I felt really bad telling him Father Christmas is real as he takes things very literally and I don't want some angry fall out when he is older and learns the truth.  But my husband wants us to make them believe in the magic.
So I ended up answering by saying "Do you think he's real? Because it's what you believe that's important" He thought for a minute and decided he was real. I think because he wants the presents. Lol
We're currently trying to deal with him thinking it will snow on Christmas Day. He's fairly convinced it will as it always does on Chrostmas stories on telly...
I'm telling him it probably won't and explaining about weather in different countries. Hope we don't get a meltdown Christmas morning! |
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"How about this for disgusting last week my seven yr old grandson rang me very upset.
He is from mixed relationship his dad and his family are muslims and he goes to catholic school big plus is he can get different perspectives so in time can make informed choice as to which if any religion he follows.
He was talking about xmas to the gran who said good muslims do not celebrate or believe in xmas and santa is not real for fucks sake.
My daughter rightly so had a go at her and it took me nearly another hour to convince him his gran is confused because just because she never saw santa does not meal he real.
Kids telling others is bad enought but adults doing it is nothing short of disgraceful."
The only thing 'disgusting' in this tale is telling a child that his grandmother is confused.
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By *arkedMan
over a year ago
Trim |
"Tell them yes mum and dad do buy them but then they send them off to Santa and the elvs to get wrapped up...  "
This is how I was brought up, and never questioned it. They were all left in the hall, to be collected by Father Christmas and then in the morning they were gone: magical times |
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OP, I have real the whole thread and it seems to me that you are disproportionately upset about this. Whether the 5 year old believes Father Christmas or not they will still be excited about getting presents on Christmas morning.
Your anger towards a 9 year old CHILD is a bit disconcerting considering you are an adult.
you say this is not the first incident you have had with the 9 year old. Why do you continue to let your 5 year old associate with them if they have upset your child before? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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My 6 year old came home and announced Santa wasnt real because a boy at school said so. He told my youngest two (2,4) aswell.
I told them if they didnt believe in Santa he wouldn't know where to find them. Sat down and watched The Polar Express and I watched the excitement in their eyes come back!
I was determined to make this Christmas full of magical memories |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The whole santa thing is very odd. Kids getting told not to lie yet their parents lie and add more lies to keep the lie going, deny the lie then get pissed off when a kid tells the truth.
"
Isn't that the same with every religious belief though? Father Christmas is as real to someone who believes in him as any deity, and infinitely better.
I believe.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I had my five year old ask if Father Christmas is real?
He does this a lot. Is spiderman real? Are crocodiles real?
I felt really bad telling him Father Christmas is real as he takes things very literally and I don't want some angry fall out when he is older and learns the truth. But my husband wants us to make them believe in the magic.
So I ended up answering by saying "Do you think he's real? Because it's what you believe that's important" He thought for a minute and decided he was real. I think because he wants the presents. Lol
We're currently trying to deal with him thinking it will snow on Christmas Day. He's fairly convinced it will as it always does on Chrostmas stories on telly...
I'm telling him it probably won't and explaining about weather in different countries. Hope we don't get a meltdown Christmas morning!"
Meltdowns are expected in my house. ....ha. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The whole santa thing is very odd. Kids getting told not to lie yet their parents lie and add more lies to keep the lie going, deny the lie then get pissed off when a kid tells the truth.
Isn't that the same with every religious belief though? Father Christmas is as real to someone who believes in him as any deity, and infinitely better.
I believe. "
I believe too.
As someone else said, if kids ask me if santa is real I ask them if they believe. If they say yes I say cool because that's all that matters. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"My grandchildren get one gift from Santa not a whole sackful. I would just say to the child yes he is real and wait until Christmas when you get your gift in your stocking "
Only one of mine still believes.. but they still get a special present from Santa x they would never tell a child Santa wasn't real though
I'd tell the child that the other child is on the naughty list so doesn't believe.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How about this for disgusting last week my seven yr old grandson rang me very upset.
He is from mixed relationship his dad and his family are muslims and he goes to catholic school big plus is he can get different perspectives so in time can make informed choice as to which if any religion he follows.
He was talking about xmas to the gran who said good muslims do not celebrate or believe in xmas and santa is not real for fucks sake.
My daughter rightly so had a go at her and it took me nearly another hour to convince him his gran is confused because just because she never saw santa does not meal he real.
Kids telling others is bad enought but adults doing it is nothing short of disgraceful.
The only thing 'disgusting' in this tale is telling a child that his grandmother is confused.
"
Far better saying confused than a bigot deliberately choosing because of being a bitch and hiding behind religious beliefs. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If you google the international space station you can get fly over times for December it really great can be seen really bright this time of year it is Santa doing his check on on the boys and girls our kids love looking at it on a clear night |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you google the international space station you can get fly over times for December it really great can be seen really bright this time of year it is Santa doing his check on on the boys and girls our kids love looking at it on a clear night"
.
I took my 12 year old out at midnight when she was 6 to get a _iew of the iss.
Explained how it got there and what it does and how we get people up to it (in very basic laymans terms) and took a pair of good binoculars out with us, and it was the perfect dark spot in the Pennines where you could see the swirl of the milky way with just your eyes..
She found it absolutely magical and we do it every year still over Christmas and no bullshit stories are required |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How about this for disgusting last week my seven yr old grandson rang me very upset.
He is from mixed relationship his dad and his family are muslims and he goes to catholic school big plus is he can get different perspectives so in time can make informed choice as to which if any religion he follows.
He was talking about xmas to the gran who said good muslims do not celebrate or believe in xmas and santa is not real for fucks sake.
My daughter rightly so had a go at her and it took me nearly another hour to convince him his gran is confused because just because she never saw santa does not meal he real.
Kids telling others is bad enought but adults doing it is nothing short of disgraceful."
Because muslims don't celebrate Christmas, right (even though a lot of us do)?
I suggest somebody tell you grandkid's muslim grandmother she is talking out of her arse.
Also; your grandkids would be considered muslim regardless of their beliefs. Faith and belief aren't as integral to Islam as they are to christianity. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The whole santa thing is very odd. Kids getting told not to lie yet their parents lie and add more lies to keep the lie going, deny the lie then get pissed off when a kid tells the truth.
Isn't that the same with every religious belief though? Father Christmas is as real to someone who believes in him as any deity, and infinitely better.
I believe. "
Even better than Odin? Santa nicked his get-up after all; he just changed the colours  |
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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago
Hull |
Whatever the pros and cons over the OP, look at it this way.
There is nothing more heart warming than to see children's faces light up when Santa appears in front of them!
For several years, I have been SANTA at various places on Christmas Day including the Children's Ward at a hospital . For the 3rd year in succession, I will visit my work place, to entertain the 80 or so kids plus have their photos taken with me by Mums and Dads.
SANTA isn't REAL????
Of course he is, everyone knows that! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Whatever the pros and cons over the OP, look at it this way.
There is nothing more heart warming than to see children's faces light up when Santa appears in front of them!
For several years, I have been SANTA at various places on Christmas Day including the Children's Ward at a hospital . For the 3rd year in succession, I will visit my work place, to entertain the 80 or so kids plus have their photos taken with me by Mums and Dads.
SANTA isn't REAL????
Of course he is, everyone knows that!"
..
Stop saying Santa, were not America yet! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yup adds to the magic.
Yeah but why make up a story that's less magical than the actual one that's taking place right above your head!."
Because what a kid considers 'magical' is a matter of opinion? I mean; I agree the ISS passing overhead *is* more awe-worthy, and I would have thought so as a kid too, but your average kid is just going to go 'meh'. |
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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago
Hull |
"Whatever the pros and cons over the OP, look at it this way.
There is nothing more heart warming than to see children's faces light up when Santa appears in front of them!
For several years, I have been SANTA at various places on Christmas Day including the Children's Ward at a hospital . For the 3rd year in succession, I will visit my work place, to entertain the 80 or so kids plus have their photos taken with me by Mums and Dads.
SANTA isn't REAL????
Of course he is, everyone knows that!..
Stop saying Santa, were not America yet!"
So, what else do you call him? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Truth hurts, but needs to be known... may as well break it to her that God does not exist either and that religion is the root of all evil."
Only it isn't |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How would you deal with a 9 year old who has just told a 5 year old that Santa doesn't exist and that Mums and Dads buy all presents? "
i wouldn't deal with it they have to find out sooner or later it's no big deal to me and I certainly punish my 9 year old off for telling the truth! |
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By *yrdwomanWoman
over a year ago
Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum |
"Whatever the pros and cons over the OP, look at it this way.
There is nothing more heart warming than to see children's faces light up when Santa appears in front of them!
For several years, I have been SANTA at various places on Christmas Day including the Children's Ward at a hospital . For the 3rd year in succession, I will visit my work place, to entertain the 80 or so kids plus have their photos taken with me by Mums and Dads.
SANTA isn't REAL????
Of course he is, everyone knows that!..
Stop saying Santa, were not America yet!
So, what else do you call him?"
He's Father Christmas over here. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yup adds to the magic.
Yeah but why make up a story that's less magical than the actual one that's taking place right above your head!.
Because what a kid considers 'magical' is a matter of opinion? I mean; I agree the ISS passing overhead *is* more awe-worthy, and I would have thought so as a kid too, but your average kid is just going to go 'meh'."
.
Damn it all that's the problem with the youth of today it's all Facebook and bloody shopping celebrations .
Being serious though I took both of mine out from a young age at night in the summer months really late on about midnight, if you go out to really quiet dark spots like Snowdonia or the Pennines the night sky is awesome, they were blown away by the milky way swirl and all the colours, we even camped out last year now that there older. They both adore science, star gazing and nature. |
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"The whole santa thing is very odd. Kids getting told not to lie yet their parents lie and add more lies to keep the lie going, deny the lie then get pissed off when a kid tells the truth.
Isn't that the same with every religious belief though? Father Christmas is as real to someone who believes in him as any deity, and infinitely better.
I believe.
Even better than Odin? Santa nicked his get-up after all; he just changed the colours "
I thought coca cola did that? |
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"Just tell him his Big brother is telling lies..
It wasn't her brother. Very nasty of the kid to do it.
Are you really serious ?
You ask how to 'deal' with a child of 9 who told the truth ?
YOu call the child of 9 nasty for telling the truth.
Listen to yourself"
My thoughts to |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The whole santa thing is very odd. Kids getting told not to lie yet their parents lie and add more lies to keep the lie going, deny the lie then get pissed off when a kid tells the truth.
Isn't that the same with every religious belief though? Father Christmas is as real to someone who believes in him as any deity, and infinitely better.
I believe.
Even better than Odin? Santa nicked his get-up after all; he just changed the colours
I thought coca cola did that? "
They did; the original outfit was blue or green.
But that outfit was basically an appropriation of Odin's. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The whole santa thing is very odd. Kids getting told not to lie yet their parents lie and add more lies to keep the lie going, deny the lie then get pissed off when a kid tells the truth.
Isn't that the same with every religious belief though? Father Christmas is as real to someone who believes in him as any deity, and infinitely better.
I believe.
Even better than Odin? Santa nicked his get-up after all; he just changed the colours "
Definitely much better than Odin - not many sagas about Father Christmas lobbing Gungnir at marauding savages. As for his image being copied by Odin - possibly, but there was probably many elderly old dudes with white beards dressed in fur-lined clothing and wearing trews and boots in ye olden days. There's a few round my village terrifying the locals with their mobility sleighs |
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"How about this for disgusting last week my seven yr old grandson rang me very upset.
He is from mixed relationship his dad and his family are muslims and he goes to catholic school big plus is he can get different perspectives so in time can make informed choice as to which if any religion he follows.
He was talking about xmas to the gran who said good muslims do not celebrate or believe in xmas and santa is not real for fucks sake.
My daughter rightly so had a go at her and it took me nearly another hour to convince him his gran is confused because just because she never saw santa does not meal he real.
Kids telling others is bad enought but adults doing it is nothing short of disgraceful.
Because muslims don't celebrate Christmas, right (even though a lot of us do)?
I suggest somebody tell you grandkid's muslim grandmother she is talking out of her arse.
Also; your grandkids would be considered muslim regardless of their beliefs. Faith and belief aren't as integral to Islam as they are to christianity."
Most of the Muslims I know celebrate Christmas to. And I don't mean in the same way Jews might. Muslim faith not only accepts the existence of Christ but also the whole Mary and Virgin Birth to. Christ, to Muslims, is second only to Mohamed. So, while not giving it the same level of importance as the Christian tradition does, it seems only natural that Muslims would celebrate Christmas to. |
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"Whatever the pros and cons over the OP, look at it this way.
There is nothing more heart warming than to see children's faces light up when Santa appears in front of them!
For several years, I have been SANTA at various places on Christmas Day including the Children's Ward at a hospital . For the 3rd year in succession, I will visit my work place, to entertain the 80 or so kids plus have their photos taken with me by Mums and Dads.
SANTA isn't REAL????
Of course he is, everyone knows that!..
Stop saying Santa, were not America yet!
So, what else do you call him?"
Father Christmas |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
" I don't blame the kid, but do I think it was mean and nasty, yes.
there are times when being a parent that stuff happens which will upset or hurt them and they will learn from such experiences..
one of the most important things they will learn is how the 'adults' deal with it as that is one way we as parents teach them to deal with whatever..
mean yes, mean and nasty is imho over the top..
its done and that cant be changed but instead of being angry think positively about how to still make Christmas a magical time for the lad ..
Perhaps because it is not an isolated incident I am somewhat prejudiced. But I stand by my mean and nasty comment. And the lad is a she , and I will make sure Christmas is wonderful for her as always.
apologies for my gender mix up..
Wasn't your mix up. The O.P. refers to the child as 'him' pre and post pointing out that it's a she .....
"
Interesting that I never described my daughter as him anywhere on this thread, in the same way I haven't said a lot of the things I seem to be being accused of! Just saying. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I tell them the truth and stop teaching my children to pray to Santa in the name of God. Santa and Christ dont agree. The bible and lying dont agree either. Its pagan not christian. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"How about this for disgusting last week my seven yr old grandson rang me very upset.
He is from mixed relationship his dad and his family are muslims and he goes to catholic school big plus is he can get different perspectives so in time can make informed choice as to which if any religion he follows.
He was talking about xmas to the gran who said good muslims do not celebrate or believe in xmas and santa is not real for fucks sake.
My daughter rightly so had a go at her and it took me nearly another hour to convince him his gran is confused because just because she never saw santa does not meal he real.
Kids telling others is bad enought but adults doing it is nothing short of disgraceful.
The only thing 'disgusting' in this tale is telling a child that his grandmother is confused.
Far better saying confused than a bigot deliberately choosing because of being a bitch and hiding behind religious beliefs."
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By *ezebelWoman
over a year ago
North of The Wall - youll need your vest |
" As for his image being copied by Odin - possibly, but there was probably many elderly old dudes with white beards dressed in fur-lined clothing and wearing trews and boots in ye olden days. There's a few round my village terrifying the locals with their mobility sleighs "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"well he was going to find out somewhen.
Sensitive as always Hilda! Childhood innocence and the wonder of Santa is something that should be allowed to last for as long as possible. The unwritten rule for older kids as always been not to ruin that story for the younger ones. I think it is one of the meanest things you could do to a young kid.
Yes but think about it, you could possibly say it was lying and a lot of kids aren't that stupid and they just pretend to believe sometimes.
5 is too young to even be questioning it. Of course as they get older kids play up to it to make sure they get what they want.
5 years old, really, maybe its being a bit patronising to a 5 year old to suggest they wouldn't question it."
Hilda - I am 46 and a quarter - and I don't question it!! Santa rules!! |
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Well I've just destroyed Santa by trying to squeeze one more yr out my 11 yr old... Sent her an email from the portable North pole frim Santa... She was amazed when she got it.. The Google on her iPod touch.. Pnp...... Her face!!!! She said mum.. It's all fake..!!!! this it's what parents send their kids!!!!
Oops |
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"I tell them the truth and stop teaching my children to pray to Santa in the name of God. Santa and Christ dont agree. The bible and lying dont agree either. Its pagan not christian. "
The origins of the traditions associated with Christmas may well be pagan but Christmas itself is not. Christmas is the day when Christians remember the birth of the Christ as a man (read human now days). Whilst not as important as Easter, it is fundamental to Christian belief that the Christ was born as a man and that he existed as a man, not as some sort of spirit being. By celebrating the birth of the Christ we further acknowledge the fact that Christ was not just God (which is what Easter is more about) but also fully man as well.
The fact that it is well known that the Christ's birthday was probably not on the 25/Dec is no more relevant than the fact that the Queens real birthday is not on the same day as her official birthday. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The origins of the traditions associated with Christmas may well be pagan but Christmas itself is not."
Bravo on trying to stand up for what you believe. Unfortunately it's a bit of a tough sell that Christmas is not pagan. Firstly we all know the date clearly is, it was previously the feast of Mithras which Christianity absorbed into itself. Secondly, there's no real evidence of the early Christians having a feast day... so really the whole idea of a feast/celebration is also an import from Mithras and the other pagan cults at the time.
But besides the date and the fact that it's a feast/celebration... well err there isn't exactly much left after that lol but I will give you this... it is widely recognised as a day of Christian celebration pertaining to the birth of Jesus. I think we all knew that though. But well done on trying |
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"Just tell him his Big brother is telling lies..
It wasn't her brother. Very nasty of the kid to do it."
Tell your 5year old that the 9year old is on santas naughty list. That he is angry that she is on santas good list, so is saying silly things to get her and other good children in trouble with santa. Tell her not to listen and if she carries on being good and goes to sleep early xmas eve, santa will leave an extra gift outside her bedroom door for believing in him (the extra gift you take from her already bought items, im not suggesting you buy anything extra to do this) but to her, it will be an extra special gift and she will be chuffed xmas morning xxxx |
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By *ltravioletWoman
over a year ago
In amongst the Unicorns & fairy dust |
"Tell the 9 yr old if he doesnt believe in santa what are the chances of him getting any gifts this year.. Would love to see his face on xmas morning when there is sod all but a few nuts and an orange and a choc selection pack in his stocking..
dare you to try it ..
If it were my kid that is exactly what I would do!
hear hear.. Then give it half an hour and find the presents lol.. "
I believe that children of any age should have aspirations not expectations .- parents should be thankful that their children believe in something magical however many gifts they receive and what |
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I like the idea of children believing in some magic around Christmas however I'm not sure spinning an ever increasing series of lies to continue the myth is really the best way to engender the trust that child is going to need in you their parents when it comes to other, far more important things, a little later on in their lives. |
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"The origins of the traditions associated with Christmas may well be pagan but Christmas itself is not.
Bravo on trying to stand up for what you believe. Unfortunately it's a bit of a tough sell that Christmas is not pagan. Firstly we all know the date clearly is, it was previously the feast of Mithras which Christianity absorbed into itself. Secondly, there's no real evidence of the early Christians having a feast day... so really the whole idea of a feast/celebration is also an import from Mithras and the other pagan cults at the time.
But besides the date and the fact that it's a feast/celebration... well err there isn't exactly much left after that lol but I will give you this... it is widely recognised as a day of Christian celebration pertaining to the birth of Jesus. I think we all knew that though. But well done on trying "
In about the 4th century there was a Christian heresy that was starting to take rout amongst some Christian communities that the Christ was not a man but purely the spirit of God that appeared as man. This heresy is contra to the fundamental Christian belief that the Christ is both God and man. It was at that time that it was decided to place a larger amount of emphases on the birth of the Christ. The date, 25/Dec was chosen not because any believed it was the actual birth, but because it fitted in with current mid-winter celebrations, including the Mithras feasts.
The fact that the origins and many of the traditions of Christmas have pagan origin does make the feast itself pagan.
Any more than all of the Abrahamic religions probably being descendent from the original monotheistic religion of Egyptian Sun worship (the 'light of the world' phrase is still used even now) means that the religions are then selves pagan.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I tell them the truth and stop teaching my children to pray to Santa in the name of God. Santa and Christ dont agree. The bible and lying dont agree either. Its pagan not christian.
The origins of the traditions associated with Christmas may well be pagan but Christmas itself is not. Christmas is the day when Christians remember the birth of the Christ as a man (read human now days). Whilst not as important as Easter, it is fundamental to Christian belief that the Christ was born as a man and that he existed as a man, not as some sort of spirit being. By celebrating the birth of the Christ we further acknowledge the fact that Christ was not just God (which is what Easter is more about) but also fully man as well.
The fact that it is well known that the Christ's birthday was probably not on the 25/Dec is no more relevant than the fact that the Queens real birthday is not on the same day as her official birthday."
Would you judge a book by its content or by its cover? Christ-mass is the celebration of Jesus's birth if we just look at the wording and the fact that it's known to be a Christian celebration. However. When you take the cover off and check the content and how it is celebrated, when it is celebrated ect its more pagan in origins and escence then Chritian. Did you know that Santa/Father Christmas is a pagan God? Known by different names to different pagan nations iat the time of Pagan Europe and pagan midle east? That he is the Son of God in the pagan faith. That his father God is the Sun God known as Baal to the the Babilonuans,
Ra to the Egyptians and Apolo to the Greeks/Romans. That Sunday is the worship day of the Sun God. Thamuz as known in Babylon and Odin as known to the Germanics and Scandinavians is the son of God that was born on the 25th of Decembre. So wether you say its Celebrating the birthday of Jesus or not. That the birthday of Santa/Odin/Thamuz not Christ's. Christ was born in the summer. Also. If it's about Jesus and Christianity, then someone would expect Christians teaching their kids to worship the Christian God not a pagan God! By doing that, you are commiting the biggest sin ever according to the bible and breaching the first and most important of the commandments of the Chrstian God: Idolatry.
You might answer and say but we dont teach the kids to worship Santa/father Xmass. Well you teach them to beleive in him as the who will answer their prayers and what do kids pray for? Presents and sweets and toys ect. You teach to venerate him and adore him and respect him, exault him and beleive that he gas has miraculous powees, he is the allhearing and he can hear their deepest secret wishes ect .... That exactly what a God is and what worship is according to the dictionary and religious definitions.
Easter! Same thing about Easter can be said and much more. Easter or Eshtar is the Moon Goddess, wife of the Sun God. The eggs and all that staff is 100% pagan.
What about the lying and deception that comes with all this? That's an abuse of the purest quality kids have that most adults don't : trust, deep belief and innocense. committed by who? The ppl they trust the most and take them blindly as their role model. I don't see a grwater deception than this.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The date of the 25th is quite significant to pagans as it's the first day of the rebirth of the sun (the first day it actually moves on the horizon from the 21st which is the shortest day) |
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"The date of the 25th is quite significant to pagans as it's the first day of the rebirth of the sun (the first day it actually moves on the horizon from the 21st which is the shortest day)"
I think you need to read back up the thread where I cover both the pagan and Christian origins of Father Christmas. The fact that a tradition may have started in pagan times does not make the observance of those traditions necessarily pagan.
I have also expressed in this thread my own concerns in perpetuating to our children a myth by an ever increasingly elaborate web of lies.
Farther Christmas is a myth based partly on ancient mid- winter traditions that have existed for over 10,000 years and the story and commemoration of Saint Nicolas from the 4th century.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There is no evidence that the early Christians celebrated with a feast. The absence of such a feast would have been a disadvantage, which is probably why they invented the last supper. That having been said it makes more sense for that feast to have taken place at Easter, when the last supper was supposed to have taken place, than at Christmas, when there was no such feast. Therefore the whole feast thing is also a pagan insertion. But it doesn't end there...
Mithras walked on water, Jesus was made to do the same. Dyonisis turned water into wine, so did Jesus. The list goes on. It is true that there is no smoking gun evidence showing that Christianity stole most of it's stories from pre-existing pagan myths... but there is certainly enough circumstantial evidence to leave little doubt.
To say the 25th of December has meaning because we celebrate Jesus' birth on that date is ridiculous. It clearly has far greater meaning in that it marks the start of the new cycle, the rebirth of the sun. That Christianity plonked itself down on that same date and claimed it for itself is completely secondary. The date itself has greater meaning for the actual events which occur on that date i.e. the rebirth of the sun, than any celebrations of a supposed birth. Sure, for you Jesus' birth is more important... but that is not why we celebrate Christmas on the 25th of december. We celebrate it then because of long pagan traditions which still hold relevence. If they hadn't existed we would likely celebrate it in Easter.... and if the pagans didn't mark their important days with feasts... then we probably wouldn't observe it at all in the way we currently do.
As for your assertion that the heresy of Jesus not being a man came much later... you need to read up on the issue better. There is absolutely no evidence that the early Christians, before Mark's gospel, believed in Jesus the man. There is no reference to Jesus the man throughout all of Paul's writings... no Jesus of Nazareth at all. Indeed all of the Christian writing pre-Mark state that Jesus' existence has been revealed to them 'through the scriptures' and not through his having existed in any meaningful sense. Imo it is quite clear that Jesus was a fictional character conjured up out of old testament writings. Only later, after Mark, did the theory of his having existed as a man on earth start to emerge. Your later heresy... was merely the continuing existence of the original early Christian belief in Jesus as a demi-god rather than a man. This was later stamped out for political reasons, so that the growing Catholic movement could claim that it had precedence as it descended from the historical Jesus... when there was no historical Jesus.
At some point in the first 2 centuries AD A Christian called Minucius Felix wrote a book in which he argued that Christians do not belief that God appeared on Earth as a man who was then crucified. He was refuting accusations which were being made against Christians from Pagans. His work is significant proof that your theory is wrong.
But I still like Santa and I'll be celebrating a meaningful new year ceremony on the 25th |
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