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Shrien Dewani
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I disagree I think South African courts seem surprisingly fair in this case. The prosecution has to prove the defendant guilty and whether we like it or not they have clearly failed to do that. The fact that the judge wasn't swayed by the groundswell of public opinion, in my opinion shows the South African legal system to be fairly good. |
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By *obbytupper OP Man
over a year ago
Menston near Ilkley |
The court only worked within its limitations, he seems to have been very reluctant to stand trial. Which it seems he has avoided, although as Onny just said this will not be the end of this particular story.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The court only worked within its limitations, he seems to have been very reluctant to stand trial. Which it seems he has avoided, although as Onny just said this will not be the end of this particular story. "
He has been outed for seeing male prostitutes, been held up and his wife murdered. As a result he has had a well publicised mental breakdown. I doubt that you could really want him to go through standing up in court when there is not enough evidence to secure a conviction. It is difficult to understand how the media can convict someone before being seen by a judge and unfortunately there will always be people like the poster who assume guilt (A.K.A. daily mail readers). |
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By *obbytupper OP Man
over a year ago
Menston near Ilkley |
I read the Yorkshire Post actually, I'm not assuming guilt but I feel for the family of his beautiful wife who because he has avoided giving evidence, will still have their doubts as to what actually happened.
Imagine if it were your daughter. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I read the Yorkshire Post actually, I'm not assuming guilt but I feel for the family of his beautiful wife who because he has avoided giving evidence, will still have their doubts as to what actually happened.
Imagine if it were your daughter."
Ultimately two people have already been convicted for the murder, one of which has subsequently been murdered themselves. It has already ended pretty badly. The only way to actually get over this sort of tragedy is to forgive and move on and keep the good memories of someone rather than the bad. Having met Auchwitz and Rwanda survivors who have forgiven surely that is what is needed. Revenge and anger are like sipping poison and expecting someone else to get sick. Ultimately we know far less about the case than the judges. |
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By *obbytupper OP Man
over a year ago
Menston near Ilkley |
No one is disputing the fact she didn't die at his hand, what is in dispute are the events leading up to her being murdered. Why did they visit a dangerous township on their honeymoon? What was the payment to the taxi driver for, etc.
Questions I'm sure would have been answered had the trial not been quashed. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What if because of this, somebody puts a hot on -him-?
Rinse and repeat.
Honestly though, it's rather terrible. South African courts seem a little lax."
Because folk may not agree with it the judge said the witness clearly lied therefore unreliable witness which makes me wonder more abiut the prosectors ineptitude.
Plus the chap.may actually be innocent.
We brits think we are ok to criticise other countries legal systems etc without knowing full facts.
I have my own _iews regarding whether I think he did it but will not challenge the judges decision. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No one is disputing the fact she didn't die at his hand, what is in dispute are the events leading up to her being murdered. Why did they visit a dangerous township on their honeymoon? What was the payment to the taxi driver for, etc.
Questions I'm sure would have been answered had the trial not been quashed."
Wheres the evidence she died at his hands the witness was found to be lying based on what the judge who had all the information and not just press coverage. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Reading this, I think there are people who doubt his innocence and I'm interested in what evidence they have access to that the Judge in SA didn't.  "
Me too |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Reading this, I think there are people who doubt his innocence and I'm interested in what evidence they have access to that the Judge in SA didn't. "
Some don't give a fig about the evidence its just muddies their unsubstantiated opinion. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Reading this, I think there are people who doubt his innocence and I'm interested in what evidence they have access to that the Judge in SA didn't. "
Tina, stop being so rational  it's only a murder case you know  |
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"Reading this, I think there are people who doubt his innocence and I'm interested in what evidence they have access to that the Judge in SA didn't. "
human nature and (maybe too many Agatha Christies readers, NCIS fans etc)
I do wonder just what the basis of the extradition was if when it gets in front of a Judge its not enough to convict.. |
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By *obbytupper OP Man
over a year ago
Menston near Ilkley |
"Reading this, I think there are people who doubt his innocence and I'm interested in what evidence they have access to that the Judge in SA didn't.
 "
The judge in South Africa could not carry on with the trial due to the prosecutions case being flawed. He wasn't found not guilty, the case was dismissed. |
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By *razedcatMan
over a year ago
London / Herts |
His current mental frailty is irrelevant for the purposes of determining if he is guilty or not. It would impact the nature and severity of his sentence if convicted, but nothing more.
Extraditing an individual is actually far less onerous than proving their guilt. There's no need for the British authorities to look into the case the accused is facing, only to ensure various human rights standards are being kept.
And if the South African court feels the case must be thrown out at this stage, let alone let it reach judgment, then clearly there are some gaping holes in the prosecution's case. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I read the Yorkshire Post actually, I'm not assuming guilt but I feel for the family of his beautiful wife who because he has avoided giving evidence, will still have their doubts as to what actually happened.
Imagine if it were your daughter.
Ultimately two people have already been convicted for the murder, one of which has subsequently been murdered themselves. It has already ended pretty badly. The only way to actually get over this sort of tragedy is to forgive and move on and keep the good memories of someone rather than the bad. Having met Auchwitz and Rwanda survivors who have forgiven surely that is what is needed. Revenge and anger are like sipping poison and expecting someone else to get sick. Ultimately we know far less about the case than the judges. "
So which of the two men found guilty have been murdered then? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Reading this, I think there are people who doubt his innocence and I'm interested in what evidence they have access to that the Judge in SA didn't. "
I followed the case quite closely, reading the live feed when bored at work. I think the prosecution did cast serious doubt on Shrien's innocence. It was the credibility of the witnesses who were providing the evidence that was brought into question and so , whether they were telling the truth or not, there was never going to be sufficient grounds to convict him.
I would have been very interested to hear his evidence had he taken the stand, particularly in relation to the planned helicopter trip that he used to explain away a lot of the events but didn’t actually mention to anyone until 2 or 3 years after the murder. There may be a logical explanation but it definitely looked suspicious.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No one is disputing the fact she didn't die at his hand, what is in dispute are the events leading up to her being murdered. Why did they visit a dangerous township on their honeymoon? What was the payment to the taxi driver for, etc.
Questions I'm sure would have been answered had the trial not been quashed.
Wheres the evidence she died at his hands the witness was found to be lying based on what the judge who had all the information and not just press coverage."
I'm intrigued by the claim that she died at his hands |
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By *im1978Couple
over a year ago
sheffield |
Neither. One died of a brain haemorrhage in jail.
It's a very sad case. I doubt it will ever come out what actually happened. Until recently I was convinced he had arranged the murder. Now I'm not sure. There are too many ifs and buts and no secure evidence. If he did do it he can consider himself lucky. Tragic for the victims family either way. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"what's the betting , he makes a miraculous recovery from his breakdown after xmas
"
If he is innocennt, and based on today's events we should assume he is, the thought of going to prison for murder in South Africa would surely have placed him under an unimaginable and intolerable strain. If he was faking his breakdown (as you allide to be the case) he fooled a lot of experts |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Neither. One died of a brain haemorrhage in jail.
It's a very sad case. I doubt it will ever come out what actually happened....... "
Unless, without the fear of double jeopardy hanging over him, he writes
a book explaining all.
Maybe that would leave him exposed to civil action ( ? ). |
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By *obbytupper OP Man
over a year ago
Menston near Ilkley |
"No one is disputing the fact she didn't die at his hand, what is in dispute are the events leading up to her being murdered. Why did they visit a dangerous township on their honeymoon? What was the payment to the taxi driver for, etc.
Questions I'm sure would have been answered had the trial not been quashed.
Wheres the evidence she died at his hands the witness was found to be lying based on what the judge who had all the information and not just press coverage.
I'm intrigued by the claim that she died at his hands "
Who has claimed that? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No one is disputing the fact she didn't die at his hand, what is in dispute are the events leading up to her being murdered. Why did they visit a dangerous township on their honeymoon? What was the payment to the taxi driver for, etc.
Questions I'm sure would have been answered had the trial not been quashed.
Wheres the evidence she died at his hands the witness was found to be lying based on what the judge who had all the information and not just press coverage.
I'm intrigued by the claim that she died at his hands
Who has claimed that?"
My mistake I (and seemingly the poster I quoted) misread your post.
That said you do seem convinced of his guilt - or am I misreading the tome of your posts? |
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By *obbytupper OP Man
over a year ago
Menston near Ilkley |
"No one is disputing the fact she didn't die at his hand, what is in dispute are the events leading up to her being murdered. Why did they visit a dangerous township on their honeymoon? What was the payment to the taxi driver for, etc.
Questions I'm sure would have been answered had the trial not been quashed.
Wheres the evidence she died at his hands the witness was found to be lying based on what the judge who had all the information and not just press coverage.
I'm intrigued by the claim that she died at his hands
Who has claimed that?
My mistake I (and seemingly the poster I quoted) misread your post.
That said you do seem convinced of his guilt - or am I misreading the tome of your posts?"
I am convinced that there is far more to this case than has been proven for definite. As I said in my opening post I feel for her family who will be haunted through not having proper closure.
For him to walk away without a trial is sure to add to their woe. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No one is disputing the fact she didn't die at his hand, what is in dispute are the events leading up to her being murdered. Why did they visit a dangerous township on their honeymoon? What was the payment to the taxi driver for, etc.
Questions I'm sure would have been answered had the trial not been quashed.
Wheres the evidence she died at his hands the witness was found to be lying based on what the judge who had all the information and not just press coverage.
I'm intrigued by the claim that she died at his hands
Who has claimed that?
My mistake I (and seemingly the poster I quoted) misread your post.
That said you do seem convinced of his guilt - or am I misreading the tome of your posts?
I am convinced that there is far more to this case than has been proven for definite. As I said in my opening post I feel for her family who will be haunted through not having proper closure.
For him to walk away without a trial is sure to add to their woe."
But there has been a trial? 
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Blood is on his hands. He knows he was involved in the events leading upto during and after her killing  "
and so much for innocent until proven guilty....
there was no evidence to suggest he did, the people who did it changed stories on various occasions...... the judge said they were unreliable.....
the extridition question is now the interesting one... i would love to see what the uk judge saw that was convincing enough to extridite |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I read the Yorkshire Post actually, I'm not assuming guilt but I feel for the family of his beautiful wife who because he has avoided giving evidence, will still have their doubts as to what actually happened.
Imagine if it were your daughter.
Ultimately two people have already been convicted for the murder, one of which has subsequently been murdered themselves. It has already ended pretty badly. The only way to actually get over this sort of tragedy is to forgive and move on and keep the good memories of someone rather than the bad. Having met Auchwitz and Rwanda survivors who have forgiven surely that is what is needed. Revenge and anger are like sipping poison and expecting someone else to get sick. Ultimately we know far less about the case than the judges.
So which of the two men found guilty have been murdered then?"
The reason I asked the above question was to hi-light the errors in the post I quoted. There were 3 men convicted of her murder not 2 and one died of brain cancer in October whilst in jail rather than being murdered as was said. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Seems as though on here people seem unwilling to accept court verdicts (Ched Evans, Oscar Pistorius). I know very little of the case other than what I saw on the news today in which the judge made it very clear that the prosecution case was so weak that she had no option but to dismiss it. In the absence of any new evidence case closed. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I read the Yorkshire Post actually, I'm not assuming guilt but I feel for the family of his beautiful wife who because he has avoided giving evidence, will still have their doubts as to what actually happened.
Imagine if it were your daughter.
Ultimately two people have already been convicted for the murder, one of which has subsequently been murdered themselves. It has already ended pretty badly. The only way to actually get over this sort of tragedy is to forgive and move on and keep the good memories of someone rather than the bad. Having met Auchwitz and Rwanda survivors who have forgiven surely that is what is needed. Revenge and anger are like sipping poison and expecting someone else to get sick. Ultimately we know far less about the case than the judges.
So which of the two men found guilty have been murdered then?
The reason I asked the above question was to hi-light the errors in the post I quoted. There were 3 men convicted of her murder not 2 and one died of brain cancer in October whilst in jail rather than being murdered as was said. "
Have to stand corrected - you are absolutely right and I was wrong on both of those facts - thank goodness I am not a judge. All I am saying is that it is very easy to jump to the wrong conclusion without full access to the facts.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"what's the betting , he makes a miraculous recovery from his breakdown after xmas
"
Oh yes x he played that card well 
I do think he's implicated but I guess he'll still have to live with it.
If he'd been honest with her from the start she probably wouldn't of married him. She's the victim.
Her family won't get the answers they need either.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I read the Yorkshire Post actually, I'm not assuming guilt but I feel for the family of his beautiful wife who because he has avoided giving evidence, will still have their doubts as to what actually happened.
Imagine if it were your daughter."
Trial or not in this Country and south africa a defendant cannot be forced to give evidence.
Gimp |
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"Reading this, I think there are people who doubt his innocence and I'm interested in what evidence they have access to that the Judge in SA didn't. "
It doesn't matter if they doubt his innocence, the legal system in both RSA and here require the prosecution to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that he was involved. Clearly the RSA prosecutor failed to do so. At present he can only be construed as innocent, that's the way the legal system works (far better than the Napoleonic system used in much of Europe where you have to prove innocence!)
If new evidence turns up then he can be re-indicted, in a similar way that it can happen here now. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I disagree I think South African courts seem surprisingly fair in this case. The prosecution has to prove the defendant guilty and whether we like it or not they have clearly failed to do that. The fact that the judge wasn't swayed by the groundswell of public opinion, in my opinion shows the South African legal system to be fairly good. "
What! The taxi driver has already admitted his part. And implicated him as the mastermind.
I think his millions got him off. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Reading this, I think there are people who doubt his innocence and I'm interested in what evidence they have access to that the Judge in SA didn't.
The judge in South Africa could not carry on with the trial due to the prosecutions case being flawed. He wasn't found not guilty, the case was dismissed."
That's about it. He's got away with murder. The muppets in s.africa have had long enough to make there case unbeatable.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Reading this, I think there are people who doubt his innocence and I'm interested in what evidence they have access to that the Judge in SA didn't.
The judge in South Africa could not carry on with the trial due to the prosecutions case being flawed. He wasn't found not guilty, the case was dismissed.
That's about it. He's got away with murder. The muppets in s.africa have had long enough to make there case unbeatable.
"
but they didnt and couldnt, Us public only know what the Media report |
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my gut feeling says he is guilty but the evidence is dodgy ! But an inocent has died !