FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Who really ARE the most needy?
Who really ARE the most needy?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I'm sick to death of arguments being waged in favour of the poor down-trodden masses and having them all lumped into one big melting pot when it's convenient to do so.
There are levels of poverty, and some are in it through no fault of their own and others are in it because they are to stupid to haul themselves out of it regardless of how much 'free stuff' we chuck at them.
If you go to any council estate (I grew up in one so I know what I'm talking about) you will find a hardcore of families that basically run that estate, they run the scams, the crime, the drugs and god help anyone who gets in their way. Below them are the benefit cheats, the serial scammers who DO know absolutely every trick in the book and how to get the govt (read: you and me) to ya for anything from new carpets, to plasma TVs, to fookin computers. We've all at least heard of them, some of us know these people personally.
Next up are those who've fallen on hard times, the one parent families where the father has pissed off and started another franchise of his family somewhere else leaving the poor woman he knocked up to struggle along alone, the single dads that would love to be a regular feature in the child's life but are prevented from doing so by a vindictive ex wife who declares his child to have every illness going when it's time for his access - yet the CSA take half is fookin wages and hand it over to her - he has to live in a one bed dump while she keeps the family home (been there, done that).
And then there are those who DID manage to get a few O Levels in a school reknowned for failure and get a decent job, who are more often than not forced to move away from the area he grew up in because all his nice things are stolen on a regular basis by any of those in the categories above. His car is scratched on every panel through resentment even though the scumbags that did it didn't bother to check that it was a company car and that he'd have to pay a £50 excess every time it got damaged.
Welcome to Luton. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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its 15% the csa takes off the wages for the 1st child after the fucker has done a runner with some chavvy skank he met online then i think its 20% per child after that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Well there we have it then. The whole country is the same as it is in luton"
tis a little stereotypical huh...?!
the council estate i grew up in, we all mucked in, helped each other and stuck up for each other...that was it. the council estate nearest to me is full of good folk and the crime rate is non-existent...perhaps the odd vandalism in the park, but nothing great.
there is a family i know of that have fell on hard time and are getting benefits. the guy is doing odd jobs on the side to raise extra funds and i wouldnt think of begrudging him that or report him for working as what he does is really getting him pittance. i'd rather, if the system was going to be de-frauded, it was done in a positive way. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Well there we have it then. The whole country is the same as it is in luton
tis a little stereotypical huh...?!
the council estate i grew up in, we all mucked in, helped each other and stuck up for each other...that was it. the council estate nearest to me is full of good folk and the crime rate is non-existent...perhaps the odd vandalism in the park, but nothing great.
there is a family i know of that have fell on hard time and are getting benefits. the guy is doing odd jobs on the side to raise extra funds and i wouldnt think of begrudging him that or report him for working as what he does is really getting him pittance. i'd rather, if the system was going to be de-frauded, it was done in a positive way."
i think you are me!!  xx |
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"its 15% the csa takes off the wages for the 1st child after the fucker has done a runner with some chavvy skank he met online then i think its 20% per child after that."
Beg to disagree slightly.
AFAIK they are the "modern" rules, not overly unjust.
I have a colleague who is stuck under the old rules, substantially more, until his kid reaches at least 18. That isn't fair.
Please correct me if i'm wrong. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There is a thriving black economy in Cornwall, no ones got a job, but the pubs are packed, beer is £3.50 a pint and every fuckers got a wedge in their pocket.
Can I break into this little circle? Can I fuck! and I've been here 15yrs now.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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dunno my case under the modern rules and to add more joy if jnr decides to go to uni he needs to keep payin the same!
now if dave would just up it to 20% i might vote him!! x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Well there we have it then. The whole country is the same as it is in luton
tis a little stereotypical huh...?!
the council estate i grew up in, we all mucked in, helped each other and stuck up for each other...that was it. the council estate nearest to me is full of good folk and the crime rate is non-existent...perhaps the odd vandalism in the park, but nothing great.
there is a family i know of that have fell on hard time and are getting benefits. the guy is doing odd jobs on the side to raise extra funds and i wouldnt think of begrudging him that or report him for working as what he does is really getting him pittance. i'd rather, if the system was going to be de-frauded, it was done in a positive way.
i think you are me!! xx"
hush...or someone will twig that we have never been seen in the same room together! |
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"Is this an advert for the Luton Tourism Board?
Can I book a caravan for Two the third week in September?"
No you jolly well can't. Can you not read Wishy's post.
Minimum occupancy rates start at 9 persons, 8 of whom must be under 16, to at least 3 different absent fathers.
Please re-apply when you qualify. By post.
Ta very much.
PS and if you do qualify leave your wheels and car stereo  on the estate on your way in. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Is this an advert for the Luton Tourism Board?
Can I book a caravan for Two the third week in September?
No you jolly well can't. Can you not read Wishy's post.
Minimum occupancy rates start at 9 persons, 8 of whom must be under 16, to at least 3 different absent fathers.
Please re-apply when you qualify. By post.
Ta very much.
PS and if you do qualify leave your wheels and car stereo on the estate on your way in."
3 for 8....wouldn't see those odds nowadays! there'd be at least 24 potential fathers to 8 children...according to Jezza! |
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"Well there we have it then. The whole country is the same as it is in luton
tis a little stereotypical huh...?!
the council estate i grew up in, we all mucked in, helped each other and stuck up for each other...that was it. the council estate nearest to me is full of good folk and the crime rate is non-existent...perhaps the odd vandalism in the park, but nothing great.
there is a family i know of that have fell on hard time and are getting benefits. the guy is doing odd jobs on the side to raise extra funds and i wouldnt think of begrudging him that or report him for working as what he does is really getting him pittance. i'd rather, if the system was going to be de-frauded, it was done in a positive way.
i think you are me!! xx"
cue Beatles lyric ( and New Seekers sampling, clever huh?) :
you are me and we are altogether
i am the wheel-robbing-benefit-seeking--nonworking-estate-dwelling-laptopping-chav-r-us.
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"Well there we have it then. The whole country is the same as it is in luton
tis a little stereotypical huh...?!
the council estate i grew up in, we all mucked in, helped each other and stuck up for each other...that was it. the council estate nearest to me is full of good folk and the crime rate is non-existent...perhaps the odd vandalism in the park, but nothing great.
there is a family i know of that have fell on hard time and are getting benefits. the guy is doing odd jobs on the side to raise extra funds and i wouldnt think of begrudging him that or report him for working as what he does is really getting him pittance. i'd rather, if the system was going to be de-frauded, it was done in a positive way.
i think you are me!! xx
cue Beatles lyric ( and New Seekers sampling, clever huh?) :
you are me and we are altogether
i am the wheel-robbing-benefit-seeking--nonworking-estate-dwelling-laptopping-chav-r-us.
"
its lovly when we get a post like this
it gives the others that are having a sensible debate a chance sit back and laugh at your funny joke  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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If you're coming to the beach party, ask Siren what it's like. She'd been told by a friend long before she ever met me that it was the worst town she'd ever been to. Siren thought she was exaggerating until she came down to visit me for the first time.
When we talked about moving in together she was very quick to point out that she wasn't coming down south and I responded just as quickly that I couldn't wait to move north. |
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I seem to recall that a couple of years ago or 6 , there was a book published with a title something like "Britain's 50 Worst Towns"
The funny thing was, IIRC, several towns complained they were not in it.
Maybe i should google and see where Luton were placed. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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nothin ever gets done if people just accept thats the way it is. its been done up here and can be done anywhere but people rather just whinge about it than stand up and do somethin about it! x |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
I seem to recall that a couple of years ago or 6 , there was a book published with a title something like "Britain's 50 Worst Towns"
The funny thing was, IIRC, several towns complained they were not in it.
Maybe i should google and see where Luton were placed."
It was in 2004, and Luton held the ignoble position of No.1 Worst Town in Britain, followed by:
2) Slough
3) Sunderland
4 & 5) Held equally between Glasgow & Edinburgh
6) Clapham, London
7) Bath
8) Kingston-upon-Hull (down from No.1 in 2003)
9) Corby
10) Middlesborough (that's feckin justified, what a dump) |
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"
I seem to recall that a couple of years ago or 6 , there was a book published with a title something like "Britain's 50 Worst Towns"
The funny thing was, IIRC, several towns complained they were not in it.
Maybe i should google and see where Luton were placed.
It was in 2004, and Luton held the ignoble position of No.1 Worst Town in Britain, followed by:
2) Slough
3) Sunderland
4 & 5) Held equally between Glasgow & Edinburgh
6) Clapham, London
7) Bath
8) Kingston-upon-Hull (down from No.1 in 2003)
9) Corby
10) Middlesborough (that's feckin justified, what a dump)"
they are great books, very tongue in cheek. the first one was 2003, topped by hull and there was an outcry from people whose towns werent represented at all, or highly enough..reflected in the second list! when you consider wichester was top 5 in first book and windsor came second in the next, it shows that it wasnt the most scientific of surveys lol
another was done in 2007 by a house buying programme, putting middlesbrough top and yet again hull was in the list !
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Yes, it's tongue in cheek but with a hint of seriousness too. Slough got mightily pissed of in 2004 but to be fair to Slough.... it's that god-awful smell you get on the M4 as you drive past the sewage treatment place. It's hardlt surprising people think the whole town must smell like that lol |
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sure, i didnt mean that there isnt crap parts of any of these towns ...hell, i grew up in the place whose shopping centre used to be the banner photo for the chavtowns website and is cited as one of the possible origins of the word! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"sure, i didnt mean that there isnt crap parts of any of these towns ...hell, i grew up in the place whose shopping centre used to be the banner photo for the chavtowns website and is cited as one of the possible origins of the word!"
Bet you're glad you didn't grow up in Russia then as you'd have been known as a Gopnik |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Wow there are some resentful people on here! Yes some abuse the system but its not just the poor who do it. I would put money on the rich shafting the system of far more financially.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Wow there are some resentful people on here! Yes some abuse the system but its not just the poor who do it. I would put money on the rich shafting the system of far more financially.
"
No, not resentful. Exasperated would be a good description.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Wow there are some resentful people on here! Yes some abuse the system but its not just the poor who do it. I would put money on the rich shafting the system of far more financially.
No, not resentful. Exasperated would be a good description. "
Well it doesn't look that way to me. Why be so determined people with a poor standard of living should have even less. Anyway I stick by resentful though as it is the way it comes across. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Wow there are some resentful people on here! Yes some abuse the system but its not just the poor who do it. I would put money on the rich shafting the system of far more financially.
No, not resentful. Exasperated would be a good description.
Well it doesn't look that way to me. Why be so determined people with a poor standard of living should have even less. Anyway I stick by resentful though as it is the way it comes across."
it's far easier though to attack a few that may cream of the odd few pounds here and there than attack 3 government parties with mp's creaming of millions.
perhaps we would all be a little wealthier if they could abide by moral code that they expect us to abide by.
i would begrudge no-one; i am in a good position from hard work, but it wasnt easy getting here and i dont forget the support i got along the way.
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By *habsMan
over a year ago
Fortress of Solitude, Middlesex |
"
I seem to recall that a couple of years ago or 6 , there was a book published with a title something like "Britain's 50 Worst Towns"
The funny thing was, IIRC, several towns complained they were not in it.
Maybe i should google and see where Luton were placed.
It was in 2004, and Luton held the ignoble position of No.1 Worst Town in Britain, followed by:
2) Slough
3) Sunderland
4 & 5) Held equally between Glasgow & Edinburgh
6) Clapham, London
7) Bath
8) Kingston-upon-Hull (down from No.1 in 2003)
9) Corby
10) Middlesborough (that's feckin justified, what a dump)"
In short... everywhere I've ever lived? Doesn't bode well for Wycombe then... |
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By *umourCouple
over a year ago
Rushden |
You can put me down for resentment if you like! I am pissed off with all the tax credits and free computers and some peoples expectation that someone else is responsible!
I grew up on a council estate and I am sorry to say that I am not the cleverest person I know! I am from a broken home and we never had all the things that our friends had!
My Mum did the best she could and did some nasty jobs just to keep us fed and clothed. Remember the old style kids paint boxes? Metal and when the paint came out you were left with a sharp edge? She used to make them and her hands were in ribbons when she came home.
That wasn't good enough for me and my siblings! Despite the fact that I didn't get past the 11plus and never had any qualifications and left school as soon as I could I now own a couple of decent cars, a nice house and run my own business! None of it with handouts or money from anyone else... Just Mrs R's hard work and mine!
Believe me, if I can do that then almost anyone can. So when I see people not even trying. Or people saying "I need a laptop cos otherwise my kids will get left behind" And then see them driving a nearly new car and smoking whilst sitting at home watching their plasma televisions, it makes me angry!
I do accept that there are people who have been thrust into poverty through no fault of their own, but I don't believe that is the majority. That group not only need, but should get the help they require, as long as they are prepared to help themselves where they can!
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Wow there are some resentful people on here! Yes some abuse the system but its not just the poor who do it. I would put money on the rich shafting the system of far more financially.
No, not resentful. Exasperated would be a good description.
Well it doesn't look that way to me. Why be so determined people with a poor standard of living should have even less. Anyway I stick by resentful though as it is the way it comes across.
it's far easier though to attack a few that may cream of the odd few pounds here and there than attack 3 government parties with mp's creaming of millions.
perhaps we would all be a little wealthier if they could abide by moral code that they expect us to abide by.
i would begrudge no-one; i am in a good position from hard work, but it wasnt easy getting here and i dont forget the support i got along the way.
"
Yep the MP's didn't give a good example did they. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Wow there are some resentful people on here! Yes some abuse the system but its not just the poor who do it. I would put money on the rich shafting the system of far more financially.
No, not resentful. Exasperated would be a good description. "
Sorry but it looks very much like bitterness and being resentful. By your own admission you crawled out of a ruff area and you are pretty patronising and antagonistic to many living there. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Well it doesn't look that way to me. Why be so determined people with a poor standard of living should have even less. Anyway I stick by resentful though as it is the way it comes across."
Where did I say that?
I was addressing the issue that there are differing levels of poverty. That was my opening statement. I then went further by recalling some of the experiences that I went through in a tough council estate where you either lived by your wits or you got hurt. I also ideintified some that were there through no fault of their own, and others who wanted to get out but couldn't. I know people who have gone through this, from the divorced father who had everything taken from him by his bitter ex-wife and was living in a dump, to the single woman who had been dumped with three kids by her man who ran off with a lass 10 years younger. I've known the feral teenagers that roam the streets at night and if you're unlucky enough to be out alone, it's a fair bet you won't get home without running in to them. A pal was stabbed 7 times by a pack of them... his 'crime'?.. he asked them to stop pulling a tree out of his front garden.
As I get older I realise more and more that there are people who genuinely need help, but for every one of them there are ten others who feign it to con the govt out of whatever they can get.
I'm not resentful. I'm exasperated that time and again it goes on and on and on, and incoming govts vow to change it, they never do. The Tories won't either. And why?
Because they don't understand the root of the problem. Throwing money at it isn't going to solve it, they have to change the way these people think.
Help the true needy, sure, I'm all for that, but to do it properly you have to know who they are and you can only establish that with what most would call intrusive questioning about their current means. But it's the only way to out the ones who don't want to be helped, but just want to help themselves to everything going, if you get my drift. I've seen items dished out by councils fenced off in the pub just a few short hours later, and the mardy criminals laughing all the way to the bar.
I'm all for helping those that need it and I make enough charitable contributions each month to causes I can be assured of have the most amount of impact per pound raised, but I also feel that to really help the needy on a widescale there has to be some sort of stringent, incorruptable authoritative body that ensures that ONLY those that need help, get help. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I am not really interested in your after thought justification in what looks like a war and peace epic. I was saying how you came across. Think about it as bitterness to others may affect you getting meets. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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benefit fraud is estimated to amount to 1% of the total bill paid out each year...so i think it is reckless to call the majority of folk claiming benefits to be claiming it ilegally or to not need the assistance....with tax evasion costing the government 15 x more than that of benefit fraud.
would suggest that tax evaders are the real criminals of society....and these are not usually people that are in a position of modest income lest we forget.
and...finally, lets congratulate the 184000 folk that got of their fat lazy arses this last quater and will be joining the tax payers....perhaps legitimately.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I am not really interested in your after thought justification in what looks like a war and peace epic. I was saying how you came across. Think about it as bitterness to others may affect you getting meets."
We do just fine thanks, and if you're really not interested in what I'm saying, why bother saying anything in the first place.  |
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Estimated UK Benefit Fraud in 2009 was £1.5 billion
Estimated UK Vat Fraud in 2009 was £21.6 billion
Estimated UK Income and Capital Gains Tax evasion in 2009 was £9.7 billion
Maybe, just maybe, there are bigger fish to fry? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am not really interested in your after thought justification in what looks like a war and peace epic. I was saying how you came across. Think about it as bitterness to others may affect you getting meets.
We do just fine thanks, and if you're really not interested in what I'm saying, why bother saying anything in the first place. "
The same reason the good Samaritan crossed the road to help out.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"benefit fraud is estimated to amount to 1% of the total bill paid out each year...so i think it is reckless to call the majority of folk claiming benefits to be claiming it ilegally or to not need the assistance....with tax evasion costing the government 15 x more than that of benefit fraud.
would suggest that tax evaders are the real criminals of society....and these are not usually people that are in a position of modest income lest we forget.
and...finally, lets congratulate the 184000 folk that got of their fat lazy arses this last quater and will be joining the tax payers....perhaps legitimately.
"
oh, and to answer the OP's initial question, who is the most needy? I would suggest the government. They need the people that take their pound from society to pay their fee and not ship it out to some tax haven so that people dont make the ignorant assumption that their tax is so high because of the 1% that abuse the system |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Estimated UK Benefit Fraud in 2009 was £1.5 billion
Estimated UK Vat Fraud in 2009 was £21.6 billion
Estimated UK Income and Capital Gains Tax evasion in 2009 was £9.7 billion
Maybe, just maybe, there are bigger fish to fry?"
Well put. Its far easier to pick on the little man which is a shame. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"benefit fraud is estimated to amount to 1% of the total bill paid out each year...so i think it is reckless to call the majority of folk claiming benefits to be claiming it ilegally or to not need the assistance....with tax evasion costing the government 15 x more than that of benefit fraud.
would suggest that tax evaders are the real criminals of society....and these are not usually people that are in a position of modest income lest we forget.
and...finally, lets congratulate the 184000 folk that got of their fat lazy arses this last quater and will be joining the tax payers....perhaps legitimately.
"
Where did I mention benefit cheats?
Or tax payers come to that?
Or even tax dodgers?
(I wouldn't class a tx dodger as needy OR living in poverty, quite the opposite in fact)
What I DID mention, if you managed to get past my username, was the different levels of poverty and *some* of the types of people living in it.
But... hey.. you've already had your digs on the other thread so this is nothing more than a continuation of that rather than reading the opening post on THIS thread, and answering it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Well there we have it then. The whole country is the same as it is in luton
tis a little stereotypical huh...?!
the council estate i grew up in, we all mucked in, helped each other and stuck up for each other...that was it. the council estate nearest to me is full of good folk and the crime rate is non-existent...perhaps the odd vandalism in the park, but nothing great.
there is a family i know of that have fell on hard time and are getting benefits. the guy is doing odd jobs on the side to raise extra funds and i wouldnt think of begrudging him that or report him for working as what he does is really getting him pittance. i'd rather, if the system was going to be de-frauded, it was done in a positive way.
i think you are me!! xx"
me too, born on a council estate, very happy childhood, great school life and yes there was great solidarity on our estate. We shared friends, food, gardens even clothes and toys. When neighbours had parties we always had invites. These days it's become rather pawsh since they sold most of the "homes for soldiers" off. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Estimated UK Benefit Fraud in 2009 was £1.5 billion
Estimated UK Vat Fraud in 2009 was £21.6 billion
Estimated UK Income and Capital Gains Tax evasion in 2009 was £9.7 billion
Maybe, just maybe, there are bigger fish to fry?
Well put. Its far easier to pick on the little man which is a shame. "
It's even easier to pic yer nose.   |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Estimated UK Benefit Fraud in 2009 was £1.5 billion
Estimated UK Vat Fraud in 2009 was £21.6 billion
Estimated UK Income and Capital Gains Tax evasion in 2009 was £9.7 billion
Maybe, just maybe, there are bigger fish to fry?
Well put. Its far easier to pick on the little man which is a shame. "
hmm... Estimated.
Implies: unknown.
Validity as an argument: useless. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Where did I mention benefit cheats?
Or tax payers come to that?
Or even tax dodgers?
(I wouldn't class a tx dodger as needy OR living in poverty, quite the opposite in fact)
What I DID mention, if you managed to get past my username, was the different levels of poverty and *some* of the types of people living in it.
But... hey.. you've already had your digs on the other thread so this is nothing more than a continuation of that rather than reading the opening post on THIS thread, and answering it."
erm, no i didnt, i actually answered it earlier on...then someone mentioned that you were bitter to a few abusing the system and you said you were exasperated by it...i'm pretty sure that's exactly how the conversation progressed...i say that with confidence as i did bother to read it.
i take each thread on its own merit and never bear a grudge. I do however have an opinion and consider a debate is a sharing of opinions...not an attack. nor do i take it as one
we are adults on here after all....aren't we?! |
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Don't get me wrong, Benefit Fraud is no lesser a blight than Tax and Vat Fraud, but I would say that playing up to the masses by pretending that Benefit Fraud is the biggest fraud problem this country has is typical Tory Tabloid politics.
So yes, lets tackle Benefit Fraud but even more so lets not have a government that pretends that Tax evasion isn't happening on a massive scale.
|
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"Estimated UK Benefit Fraud in 2009 was £1.5 billion
Estimated UK Vat Fraud in 2009 was £21.6 billion
Estimated UK Income and Capital Gains Tax evasion in 2009 was £9.7 billion
Maybe, just maybe, there are bigger fish to fry?
Well put. Its far easier to pick on the little man which is a shame.
hmm... Estimated.
Implies: unknown.
Validity as an argument: useless."
Estimated because as I am sure you are more than aware exact figures for fraud on this scale are never known.....if they were known then the fraud would have been detected.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Don't get me wrong, Benefit Fraud is no lesser a blight than Tax and Vat Fraud, but I would say that playing up to the masses by pretending that Benefit Fraud is the biggest fraud problem this country has is typical Tory Tabloid politics.
So yes, lets tackle Benefit Fraud but even more so lets not have a government that pretends that Tax evasion isn't happening on a massive scale.
"
They both are bad but often the VAT evaders are educated and not exactly starving or having to watch how much gas they use each week. Theft is theft but the tabloids and the Tory wimperthisers like to have a scape goat and Jonnie benefit thief is their man. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
we are adults on here after all....aren't we?!
ring ring ring ring???? "
that's a very good response. very droll
i see it has become difficult for you to hold the debate so I will end it graciously. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Don't get me wrong, Benefit Fraud is no lesser a blight than Tax and Vat Fraud, but I would say that playing up to the masses by pretending that Benefit Fraud is the biggest fraud problem this country has is typical Tory Tabloid politics.
So yes, lets tackle Benefit Fraud but even more so lets not have a government that pretends that Tax evasion isn't happening on a massive scale.
"
Yup, I'd say that was a pretty good step in the right direction, but it's not what I was asking. It doesn't identify who is the most needy. And that sure isn't the bloody government as someone else suggested. MP's come and go, often with a damn good pension, so they're hardly in the 'needy' class... maybe I missed the sarc....nevermind.
But ok, tax evasion is taking money out of the system that could be used to help the needy, I'll agree to that. And agree that it should be stamped on. If someone wants to hide his stash abroad then fine, but take his British status off him and kick him out. |
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By *b430Man
over a year ago
Tayside |
"Estimated UK Benefit Fraud in 2009 was £1.5 billion
Estimated UK Vat Fraud in 2009 was £21.6 billion
Estimated UK Income and Capital Gains Tax evasion in 2009 was £9.7 billion
Maybe, just maybe, there are bigger fish to fry?
Well put. Its far easier to pick on the little man which is a shame.
hmm... Estimated.
Implies: unknown.
Validity as an argument: useless.
Estimated because as I am sure you are more than aware exact figures for fraud on this scale are never known.....if they were known then the fraud would have been detected.
"
You are not supposed to put sensible answers like that in here ya know! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
we are adults on here after all....aren't we?!
ring ring ring ring????
that's a very good response. very droll
i see it has become difficult for you to hold the debate so I will end it graciously."
If you can't take what you shovel, stop digging. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Estimated UK Benefit Fraud in 2009 was £1.5 billion
Estimated UK Vat Fraud in 2009 was £21.6 billion
Estimated UK Income and Capital Gains Tax evasion in 2009 was £9.7 billion
Maybe, just maybe, there are bigger fish to fry?
Well put. Its far easier to pick on the little man which is a shame.
hmm... Estimated.
Implies: unknown.
Validity as an argument: useless.
Estimated because as I am sure you are more than aware exact figures for fraud on this scale are never known.....if they were known then the fraud would have been detected.
You are not supposed to put sensible answers like that in here ya know! "
So, in fact, it could be a lot less than £9.7bn Tax Evasion?
And a lot more than £1.5bn Benefit Fraud?
Could even be parity between the two couldn't it?
I mean, if they KNEW who had fraudulently claimed benefit they would have detected it, wouldn't they?
It's your own argument Jane. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
we are adults on here after all....aren't we?!
ring ring ring ring????
that's a very good response. very droll
i see it has become difficult for you to hold the debate so I will end it graciously.
If you can't take what you shovel, stop digging."
this is what you resort to whenever your argument is proved flawed. you take things to a personal level. you, sir, are a bully.
follow this with what you will, i will no longer play these childish charades |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Oh deary deary me - off it goes again! "
bb.. why come on just to antagonise?
Either conribute or not, your choice, but please don't stir things up, ok? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
we are adults on here after all....aren't we?!
ring ring ring ring????
that's a very good response. very droll
i see it has become difficult for you to hold the debate so I will end it graciously.
If you can't take what you shovel, stop digging.
this is what you resort to whenever your argument is proved flawed. you take things to a personal level. you, sir, are a bully.
follow this with what you will, i will no longer play these childish charades"
Yes yes yes, blah blah blah.. Note the lack of capitals there huh?
btw.. THAT was sarcasm. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Oh deary deary me - off it goes again!
bb.. why come on just to antagonise?
Either conribute or not, your choice, but please don't stir things up, ok?"
What are you on? Is it your intention to be objectionable to everyone who doesn't put a comment favourable to you? I sometimes wonder what sort of life results in people taking a negative attitude to others at well past midnight. |
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By *b430Man
over a year ago
Tayside |
"Oh deary deary me - off it goes again!
bb.. why come on just to antagonise?
Either conribute or not, your choice, but please don't stir things up, ok?"
You must have missed my earlier contribution and thanks once again Wishy but I will contribute what and when I want to - Please don't think you can tell me what I can or can't do on an open forum!
Maybe the earlier post was correct and You Sir Are A Bully! But that could just be my opinion again! |
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i think the most needy are often those who sit just the wrong side of the point at which they'd get help. Only a few pounds may represent that divide but what they lose in additional support means their relative income is much lower and the fight to stay afloat much harder |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Oh deary deary me - off it goes again!
bb.. why come on just to antagonise?
Either conribute or not, your choice, but please don't stir things up, ok?
What are you on? Is it your intention to be objectionable to everyone who doesn't put a comment favourable to you? I sometimes wonder what sort of life results in people taking a negative attitude to others at well past midnight. "
You've been a member here for three months. Search back to some of the debates we've had on here over the past couple of years and you'll get a true flavour of what we discuss and how we discuss. Get clued up before casting unfounded accusations and feathered insults. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Oh deary deary me - off it goes again!
bb.. why come on just to antagonise?
Either conribute or not, your choice, but please don't stir things up, ok?
What are you on? Is it your intention to be objectionable to everyone who doesn't put a comment favourable to you? I sometimes wonder what sort of life results in people taking a negative attitude to others at well past midnight.
You've been a member here for three months. Search back to some of the debates we've had on here over the past couple of years and you'll get a true flavour of what we discuss and how we discuss. Get clued up before casting unfounded accusations and feathered insults."
My time as a member here makes little or no difference to your attitude and quite frankly it is a little pathetic to try and use this to win an argument. Im older, i have been here longer means............. what? You can bully members who have been here less time?
It would be like me saying its a swingers site, we are here to meet. I meet and you dont!
Manners cost nothing and i suggest you try acquiring some and toning down your aggression as its not pleasant.
|
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"i think the most needy are often those who sit just the wrong side of the point at which they'd get help. Only a few pounds may represent that divide but what they lose in additional support means their relative income is much lower and the fight to stay afloat much harder"
True, they are, but they are often buried amongst those who are simply conning the system. I'm all for winter payments for the elderly, (I'm of the persuasion that once you retire you shouldn't pay tax at all, for anything). I'm also all for those who are being exploited by the minimum wage constricts as some unscrupulous companies use that to tie them down to a low paid job by threatening them with the sack if they dare to complain about it. Some companies don't even recognise the minimum wage at all and pay a pittance for a 50-hour week.
To my mind, the needy are those who are born without the capability to ever work in what all accept as the norm. The mentally handicapped, the physically handicapped - and those who care for them 24/7/365, those who have been injured beyond repair for whatever reason and cannot work, people who have suffered mental breakdowns due to continual stress, people who have real hard to cure conditions like those who haven't left their homes in 10 years for fear of open spaces/crowds/etc (how hard must a life like that be?). Depressive people, people with terminal illnesses, people who cannot even talk, walk, autistic people...
Those are the real needy. |
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people talk about luton as if its a shit hole ...........well it is
they say it was a shit hole 20 years ago ............ and it probably was
but i tell you this , it wasnt a shit hole 50 years ago
you can look at archive photos and film , plus veiw with your own eyes the care and work they put into the architecture of the houses and municipal buildings that have stood for 50 years or more
it was just as sulubrious as neighboring places such as stevenage , st albans , WGC , hertford etc
so for whatever reason it has degenerated to the scum hole it is now
one thing is for sure , whatever happened to luton will happen to a town near YOU
it might take a year , it might take 10 years , but happen it will
its something that seems to be creeping over the country along the lines of the great plauge
im not saying theres a connection to people claiming benifit , but i will give my thoughts about it
first of all there are people that from time to time need a helping hand , and of course i would be the first to say let them have it
the only problem is that SOME people have jumped on the bandwagon and are milking the system , and there are others that consider it as being a way of life , ie a kind of profession
so rather than be just like others and moan about it , i will tell you what i would do about it
i would leave benefits as they are , by that i mean i would not increase them each year to keep place with inflation
that would mean even though more would jump on the bandwagon in the coming years , the meat and gravy would be reduced to bread and water
in a nutshell , even though in 50 years time there might be 4 times as many people on benifit they would only be geting what a person might have got for a weeks work 50 years in the past IE £2 per week
it would not be worth the candle to fill out the form to get it in the first place and eventually the benifit system would be extinct
what would they do , how would they buy food i hear you ask
they might do what our forefathers did
queue up in a line to try get a days work !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
what about sick or disabled people
well of course there would have to be exeptions , as with single parents
but if you think it can continue as is , ad infinitum dream on |
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"Wow there are some resentful people on here! Yes some abuse the system but its not just the poor who do it. I would put money on the rich shafting the system of far more financially.
No, not resentful. Exasperated would be a good description.
Well it doesn't look that way to me. Why be so determined people with a poor standard of living should have even less. Anyway I stick by resentful though as it is the way it comes across.
it's far easier though to attack a few that may cream of the odd few pounds here and there than attack 3 government parties with mp's creaming of millions.
perhaps we would all be a little wealthier if they could abide by moral code that they expect us to abide by.
i would begrudge no-one; i am in a good position from hard work, but it wasnt easy getting here and i dont forget the support i got along the way.
"
class post ..the euro mps are still shafting us. as with them its all kept secret and exempt from freedom of info |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"My time as a member here makes little or no difference to your attitude and quite frankly it is a little pathetic to try and use this to win an argument. Im older, i have been here longer means............. what? You can bully members who have been here less time?
It would be like me saying its a swingers site, we are here to meet. I meet and you dont!
Manners cost nothing and i suggest you try acquiring some and toning down your aggression as its not pleasant.
"
I think it has every pertinence as you have just called me a bully AND pathetic. Yet you don't even know me and we've never crossed words before. My suggestion to have a read back was so that you could make an education decision about me and my posting style.
Or simply message someone and ask them? Perhaps. You can do that, can't you?
As for my manners, well, anyone who knows me (cos they've been here a while and have got to know me) will tell you I don't hold my punches and give as good as I get. If you don't like that, tough, you've mistaken me for someone who gives a fuck. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Wow there are some resentful people on here! Yes some abuse the system but its not just the poor who do it. I would put money on the rich shafting the system of far more financially.
No, not resentful. Exasperated would be a good description.
Well it doesn't look that way to me. Why be so determined people with a poor standard of living should have even less. Anyway I stick by resentful though as it is the way it comes across.
it's far easier though to attack a few that may cream of the odd few pounds here and there than attack 3 government parties with mp's creaming of millions.
perhaps we would all be a little wealthier if they could abide by moral code that they expect us to abide by.
i would begrudge no-one; i am in a good position from hard work, but it wasnt easy getting here and i dont forget the support i got along the way.
class post ..the euro mps are still shafting us. as with them its all kept secret and exempt from freedom of info"
cue new sitcom "Derek old-boy, darling." |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"My time as a member here makes little or no difference to your attitude and quite frankly it is a little pathetic to try and use this to win an argument. Im older, i have been here longer means............. what? You can bully members who have been here less time?
It would be like me saying its a swingers site, we are here to meet. I meet and you dont!
Manners cost nothing and i suggest you try acquiring some and toning down your aggression as its not pleasant.
I think it has every pertinence as you have just called me a bully AND pathetic. Yet you don't even know me and we've never crossed words before. My suggestion to have a read back was so that you could make an education decision about me and my posting style.
Or simply message someone and ask them? Perhaps. You can do that, can't you?
As for my manners, well, anyone who knows me (cos they've been here a while and have got to know me) will tell you I don't hold my punches and give as good as I get. If you don't like that, tough, you've mistaken me for someone who gives a fuck."
Your attitude at times is below acceptable. You twist words as i didn't call you pathetic i said it was a pathetic act to use membership on here to push your point.
As for a an aggressive attitude..... Well you openly admit you don't pull your punches. If that's not aggressive then i don't know what is.
You seem intent on pushing people for some goal which isn't obvious but maybe because as you put it your a long term member and thus you feel you have the right to do as you wish.
You say you dont give a fuck! Well clearly you do as you seem intent on having the last possible word.
I would assume being here longer than many would have helped you be more pleasant to newer members. However it comes across as you feel the forums are your play ground and you can do as you wish and those who don't like it will have to live with it. That sort of attitude will leave you with very few friends.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
You stepped in with a throw away comment and simply would not listen to any kind of response. That's a bit like a child's 1,2,3 injection for life, ya can't touch me.
Well here's the news chum. If you know forum life at all you'll know that the only thing we have at our disposal - is words, bit quirky that eh?
So, having the last word, well, that can only be determined at the end of a discussion and your post left it open to answer, so strange as it may seem, I'm answering it. Geddit now?
As for aggression, yup, I can be aggressive sometimes, with people who don't know me and offer throw away, unfounded and uneducated comments when all I bloody well asked was: Who is the most needy?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"people talk about luton as if its a shit hole ...........well it is
they say it was a shit hole 20 years ago ............ and it probably was
but i tell you this , it wasnt a shit hole 50 years ago
you can look at archive photos and film , plus veiw with your own eyes the care and work they put into the architecture of the houses and municipal buildings that have stood for 50 years or more
it was just as sulubrious as neighboring places such as stevenage , st albans , WGC , hertford etc
so for whatever reason it has degenerated to the scum hole it is now
one thing is for sure , whatever happened to luton will happen to a town near YOU
it might take a year , it might take 10 years , but happen it will
its something that seems to be creeping over the country along the lines of the great plauge
im not saying theres a connection to people claiming benifit , but i will give my thoughts about it
first of all there are people that from time to time need a helping hand , and of course i would be the first to say let them have it
the only problem is that SOME people have jumped on the bandwagon and are milking the system , and there are others that consider it as being a way of life , ie a kind of profession
so rather than be just like others and moan about it , i will tell you what i would do about it
i would leave benefits as they are , by that i mean i would not increase them each year to keep place with inflation
that would mean even though more would jump on the bandwagon in the coming years , the meat and gravy would be reduced to bread and water
in a nutshell , even though in 50 years time there might be 4 times as many people on benifit they would only be geting what a person might have got for a weeks work 50 years in the past IE £2 per week
it would not be worth the candle to fill out the form to get it in the first place and eventually the benifit system would be extinct
what would they do , how would they buy food i hear you ask
they might do what our forefathers did
queue up in a line to try get a days work !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
what about sick or disabled people
well of course there would have to be exeptions , as with single parents
but if you think it can continue as is , ad infinitum dream on "
I agree with every word you just said there.
We moved to Luton in 1970, and it was ok even then. We had the jubilee street party in '77 and it was a gloriously hot day and a bucket load of fun. It started going really downhill about 15 years ago and some areas became no-go areas for the police late at night, which soon descended into total lawlessness (Marlin Road, Lewsey Farm was just such a place). And yes, it's being repeated up and down the country and I think the cycle has spiralled to far down now to stop it without something truly radical being done.
Scrap the benefits system? No govt would dare.
It's hard to see how we can reclaim these places in a way that's acceptable to everyone. Would somewhere else simply inherit the problem? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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funny we have a benefit fraud campaign with phone number blazened over buses and god knows where else but try and find one to try and report tax fraud or vat fraud and you in for a long trawl!
its funny the idea of the deserving and undeserving poor is still around since it came around pre victorian times!
as for council estates we all know what happened there the right to buy! whilst in principal it was a great idea if u bought into maggies ideaology of the property owning movin into the middle classes the poor and the less able in our society have paid the cost of this with most council houses being the last resort and dumping ground! add into this the care in the community act which again, great in principle but let people out who did not have the skills or the money to live in communities often in the less desirable areas where more harm awaited them than in the institutions.
in scotland its slightly different we have good council schemes where people strive to make the areas better even ones with problems such as high unemployment and drug and alcohol abuse so why cant this apply to other council areas or local housing associations x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Have to say that as ive been living on a council estate for years, in fact i was once a council tenant and moved after being offered a house by them but hated it immenseley and moved back to where i was before but this time paying a mortgage, and i wont ever move again as i learnt my lesson the hard way
As to the hard families/gangs, when i was robbed of my handbag, it was witnessed by the local drugs gang, who shot out of the flat they were in, beat the crap out of the scumbag and gave me my handbag back without rifling through it.
Another occasion was the local shop that was robbed. The lad that did it was made to give himself up because another drug dealer told him to, thats because they dont allow anyone to muscle in on their "estate"
On the other hand, it annoys me immensely that my son does a 40 hr week, bought me a 2nd hand car for my birthday; a clapped out old proton (that sailed without even an advisory through the MOT) yet the lad that lives in the block of flats by me can afford a 2002 Citroen A120 (i think it is) yet doesnt work???
Here's another one, i work for a housing association and shifts in a pub as ive huge debts from changing jobs and being out of work. All i want is a new bed, ive seen one at £169 but i just cant afford it. A couple came into the office where i work, they have a £1000 decking in their back garden and are looking to move but they dont want to fit it if we can find them somewhere else to live, funny thing is that neither of them work and seem to be milking the benefits system for all they can get - he has a war wound, they have a disability car yet he is talking about laying the decking himself, funny old world aint it  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"funny we have a benefit fraud campaign with phone number blazened over buses and god knows where else but try and find one to try and report tax fraud or vat fraud and you in for a long trawl!
its funny the idea of the deserving and undeserving poor is still around since it came around pre victorian times!
as for council estates we all know what happened there the right to buy! whilst in principal it was a great idea if u bought into maggies ideaology of the property owning movin into the middle classes the poor and the less able in our society have paid the cost of this with most council houses being the last resort and dumping ground! add into this the care in the community act which again, great in principle but let people out who did not have the skills or the money to live in communities often in the less desirable areas where more harm awaited them than in the institutions.
in scotland its slightly different we have good council schemes where people strive to make the areas better even ones with problems such as high unemployment and drug and alcohol abuse so why cant this apply to other council areas or local housing associations x"
ive been where i am for 3 yrs, some tenants were reported for claiming benefits they dont deserve yet still they are walking the streets, driving disability car and living in a bungalow they dont deserve cos though the benefits investigation department know they are "still gathering information"!! what a bunch of losers |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I am not really interested in your after thought justification in what looks like a war and peace epic. I was saying how you came across. Think about it as bitterness to others may affect you getting meets.
We do just fine thanks, and if you're really not interested in what I'm saying, why bother saying anything in the first place. "
Dont you worry, i read your post and i understand how bloody frustrating it is when its seen that people that do need help dont and slip through the system, and those that dont milk it for all they can get as ive said in my comments on this post.
And i do know because i used to work for a neighbourhood project that helped those people in need, one could tell those that really needed help and those that didnt.
Here's a good one though, i work shifts in a pub, out of those that apply, only a tiny portion of unemployed apply, in fact its more likely to be those just made redundant, students (who dont stay long) and people like me who already work.
As to it stopping you meeting anyone, what a load of codswallop, its a common known fact that we like a personality on the end of a cock and that goes for pussy too so you say what you like |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"funny we have a benefit fraud campaign with phone number blazened over buses and god knows where else but try and find one to try and report tax fraud or vat fraud and you in for a long trawl!
its funny the idea of the deserving and undeserving poor is still around since it came around pre victorian times!
as for council estates we all know what happened there the right to buy! whilst in principal it was a great idea if u bought into maggies ideaology of the property owning movin into the middle classes the poor and the less able in our society have paid the cost of this with most council houses being the last resort and dumping ground! add into this the care in the community act which again, great in principle but let people out who did not have the skills or the money to live in communities often in the less desirable areas where more harm awaited them than in the institutions.
in scotland its slightly different we have good council schemes where people strive to make the areas better even ones with problems such as high unemployment and drug and alcohol abuse so why cant this apply to other council areas or local housing associations x
ive been where i am for 3 yrs, some tenants were reported for claiming benefits they dont deserve yet still they are walking the streets, driving disability car and living in a bungalow they dont deserve cos though the benefits investigation department know they are "still gathering information"!! what a bunch of losers "
lucky them cause i had the fraud squad within 2 days of someone reporting me???
which was unfounded because i was legal and above board but had to go through the embarrasment of the benefits agency at my door! oh and also the charming man from the csa when i refused to name kiddos dad!
and i also work 2 jobs and im a lone parent and also doin a uni degree and also live on a council estate and pay full rent plus im my mothers carer i do get a 25% reduction in council tax when not at uni! funny cause im never in to flush the bloody toilet and my bin goes out once a month at a push!! x |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Dont you worry, i read your post and i understand how bloody frustrating it is when its seen that people that do need help dont and slip through the system, and those that dont milk it for all they can get as ive said in my comments on this post.
....
As to it stopping you meeting anyone, what a load of codswallop, its a common known fact that we like a personality on the end of a cock and that goes for pussy too so you say what you like "
Thank you kitten. tbh after last night I've been reluctant to come back to this thread. I've decided against getting involved in the serious debates on here and it's just the light hearted stuff for me from now on. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"funny we have a benefit fraud campaign with phone number blazened over buses and god knows where else but try and find one to try and report tax fraud or vat fraud and you in for a long trawl!
its funny the idea of the deserving and undeserving poor is still around since it came around pre victorian times!
as for council estates we all know what happened there the right to buy! whilst in principal it was a great idea if u bought into maggies ideaology of the property owning movin into the middle classes the poor and the less able in our society have paid the cost of this with most council houses being the last resort and dumping ground! add into this the care in the community act which again, great in principle but let people out who did not have the skills or the money to live in communities often in the less desirable areas where more harm awaited them than in the institutions.
in scotland its slightly different we have good council schemes where people strive to make the areas better even ones with problems such as high unemployment and drug and alcohol abuse so why cant this apply to other council areas or local housing associations x
ive been where i am for 3 yrs, some tenants were reported for claiming benefits they dont deserve yet still they are walking the streets, driving disability car and living in a bungalow they dont deserve cos though the benefits investigation department know they are "still gathering information"!! what a bunch of losers
lucky them cause i had the fraud squad within 2 days of someone reporting me???
which was unfounded because i was legal and above board but had to go through the embarrasment of the benefits agency at my door! oh and also the charming man from the csa when i refused to name kiddos dad!
and i also work 2 jobs and im a lone parent and also doin a uni degree and also live on a council estate and pay full rent plus im my mothers carer i do get a 25% reduction in council tax when not at uni! funny cause im never in to flush the bloody toilet and my bin goes out once a month at a push!! x "
Perhaps your lot should come and give our lot a lesson in how to investigate benefit fraud then because the problem is going to be that when they are finally arrested, they will owe thousands of benefits which they cant pay back so if they dont go to prison, the dumbass judge will slap them with a £1 fine like the did the family that defrauded the benefits of £30,000. But its always the way isnt it, they were there like a shot to yours for a one off incident, but our tenants have hundreds and we have witnessed it too, even been in the papers but still nothing |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"funny we have a benefit fraud campaign with phone number blazened over buses and god knows where else but try and find one to try and report tax fraud or vat fraud and you in for a long trawl!
its funny the idea of the deserving and undeserving poor is still around since it came around pre victorian times!
as for council estates we all know what happened there the right to buy! whilst in principal it was a great idea if u bought into maggies ideaology of the property owning movin into the middle classes the poor and the less able in our society have paid the cost of this with most council houses being the last resort and dumping ground! add into this the care in the community act which again, great in principle but let people out who did not have the skills or the money to live in communities often in the less desirable areas where more harm awaited them than in the institutions.
in scotland its slightly different we have good council schemes where people strive to make the areas better even ones with problems such as high unemployment and drug and alcohol abuse so why cant this apply to other council areas or local housing associations x
ive been where i am for 3 yrs, some tenants were reported for claiming benefits they dont deserve yet still they are walking the streets, driving disability car and living in a bungalow they dont deserve cos though the benefits investigation department know they are "still gathering information"!! what a bunch of losers
lucky them cause i had the fraud squad within 2 days of someone reporting me???
which was unfounded because i was legal and above board but had to go through the embarrasment of the benefits agency at my door! oh and also the charming man from the csa when i refused to name kiddos dad!
and i also work 2 jobs and im a lone parent and also doin a uni degree and also live on a council estate and pay full rent plus im my mothers carer i do get a 25% reduction in council tax when not at uni! funny cause im never in to flush the bloody toilet and my bin goes out once a month at a push!! x
Perhaps your lot should come and give our lot a lesson in how to investigate benefit fraud then because the problem is going to be that when they are finally arrested, they will owe thousands of benefits which they cant pay back so if they dont go to prison, the dumbass judge will slap them with a £1 fine like the did the family that defrauded the benefits of £30,000. But its always the way isnt it, they were there like a shot to yours for a one off incident, but our tenants have hundreds and we have witnessed it too, even been in the papers but still nothing "
ours are tough i must say i think the sas rejected them for being too heavy handed lol!!
some people know exactly how to play the system, and the ones that dont and have worked etc are the ones that miss out! the amount of forms iv filled in for ex miners etc who dont know what they entitled to is unreal also widows etc but there one lot up the rd from me never worked never will who constantly d*unk and basically degenerates know how to play the system and it even annoys me! x |
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Another political thread that is really about how bad the poor are and how we must out the scroungers, that yet again fails to link cause and effect.
Wishy and others go on about those few that defraud the system of 10s sometimes 100s of thousands and see that as justification to cut benefits to all, they see surface wealth in the “stuff” that some benefit claimants have as further justification for all their “Bugger you, I’m all right jack” attitudes, and they point the finger of blame at everyone but fail to look in the mirror and ask how much they are to blame for the wrongs in our society.
Now I am going to point some very uncomfortable home truths out to Wishy and others, the simple fact is that this downward slide has been going on since the late 70s early 80s, round about the time when it became fashionable to take from the poorest and most vulnerable in society and give to the rich.
It started with closing the grammar schools (to make education equally bad all round unless your parents were rich enough to pay) thus removing opportunity from the gifted poor, then killing off of apprenticeships ensuring that those less gifted were also stopped from improving their lot in life, now we complain about all those with no skills and foreigners taking jobs. It continued with closing down the mental hospitals and “care in the community” now we are told that something like 50%+ of all those in jail have mental health problems. We further complain that our prisons are overcrowded and that juvenile delinquents are not punished. What do we expect when our prisons are used as dormitories for the mentally ill?
The truth is that fiscal cuts do not work, every cut above was made to save money and none worked, oh they all seemed to work for a short time but all they succeeded in doing was transferring wealth from the country (state) and the poor to the wealthy and destabilising society by removing opportunity and hope from the poor. As at the same time we dumped those we should have been caring for in mental hospitals into the sink estates where the poor lived.
As for the comments about this cancer of a drug using, thieving, violent underclass (that would be “CHAV’s” [council house and violent]) spreading across the country what do you expect? We fill estates with unsupervised insane and feeble minded, then we are surprised when they breed and become prey to criminals! We dismantle our support systems and then wonder why we have "CHAV’s". We cut and export jobs and wonder why we have a benefit dependent underclass. We remove hope from communities and wonder why they become prey to drugs and the organized criminal gangs that run the trade. It is simply the effect of 30 years of disenfranchising the poor in favour of the rich.
Simple fact is “trickle down” does not work and our society will continue to get more violent and fragmented the longer we continue on this mad course. As now we have second and third generation underclass being taught by their parents and grandparents how to manipulate the legal and social system we can expect the speed of fragmentation to increase.
One final thought to all of you who bay for blood and complain about being the victims of crime, over the past 20/30 years how many times have you been willing to stand up to the thugs? And how many times have you FAILED to give aid or evidence to the police because you were not a “grass”, we get to live in the society we deserve.
I could continue, but if what I have said above is not enough to make you start thinking then nothing I will ever say will get through. We like every society will be judged on how we treat our young, old and vulnerable, seems to me that every year we become more like a poor copy of the USA and that is no compliment.
AS I said earlier before pointing a finger at those we see as beneath us maybe we all need to stand in front of a mirror and as our reflection how much are we to blame for the state of the country?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Was that tumble blowing by there?
{cuts to close up facial shot of mexican bandito-type character with sweat beading on his unkempt beard as his eyes flicker from side-to-side whilst some dodgy whistling music plays in the background under-dubbed by some authentic Indian chanting} |
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