FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > The deficit.. What now?????
The deficit.. What now?????
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Seeing that the deficit is double what it was when the ConDem parties got in: 1. how is it double what it was and 2. How the flying feck can it be paid off? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think you mean the national debt.
The deficit is the how much extra we spend yearly to what we take in revenue.
The national debt we never get out off, well not these days anyhow, we just try to negate it with inflation |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think you mean the national debt.
The deficit is the how much extra we spend yearly to what we take in revenue.
The national debt we never get out off, well not these days anyhow, we just try to negate it with inflation"
beat me to it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yeah....me too. Lots of people mix up debt and deficit. The deficit is less (but not as much less as hoped for). As long as there is ANY defective then the debt will continue to rise. Sadly a fair chunk of the deficit is interest on the debt.
The debt that was racked up crazily during the so-called "growth" years under Bliar and Brown. Sadly all an illusion on the back of crazy borrowing. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yeah....me too. Lots of people mix up debt and deficit. The deficit is less (but not as much less as hoped for). As long as there is ANY defective then the debt will continue to rise. Sadly a fair chunk of the deficit is interest on the debt.
The debt that was racked up crazily during the so-called "growth" years under Bliar and Brown. Sadly all an illusion on the back of crazy borrowing."
errr no actually labour only increased the debt by 400 billon in 9 years, where as the condem have taken it up 600 billion in 5 years |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Oh.. right! , so isnt it growing going to cause a problem?
Isnt tryin to neagate it with inflation re arranging the deckchairs?"
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No it's got every western government in the world get out of the debt problem!.
The problem we now face is deflation or stagnation where the debt still increases but with negative inflation it's increasing even more in real terms. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's quite a hard one to explain in a short sentence, but if you think of it this way, inflation isn't the price of items going up like butter, petrol, bread costing more next year, it's the "worth" of the currency your buying them with dropping, so let's say you have ten grand in the bank and there giving you 2% interest a year but inflation is 3% your effectively losing 1% of your money every year it's in the bank.
The government how to pay back the money they borrow today in 20 years time by in effect making it worth less  .
Like a pension they take ten pounds of you today and promise to give you 50 in 30 years time but in effect the 50 is actually worth the same as the original tenner you gave them!!. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Oh.. right! , so isnt it growing going to cause a problem?
Isnt tryin to neagate it with inflation re arranging the deckchairs?.
No it's got every western government in the world get out of the debt problem!.
The problem we now face is deflation or stagnation where the debt still increases but with negative inflation it's increasing even more in real terms."
ah right. Thanks for the info..
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As a nation we keep spending billions more than we earn (the deficit). We then get out our credit card to pay for it, increasing the national debt (instead of Amex we have the international bond market) and keep paying the interest, which is huge, about £1bn a week. If the bond market suddenly decides it doesn't want to lend to us the backup plan is Wonga! We will never be debt, I suspect it would take hundreds of years, the question is can we ever run a surplus again rather than a deficit  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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So if everyone ows money to everyone else, just cancel the debts for everyone and start again! The only people who would lose out are the international finaciers who broker all this playing with non-existing
cash. They may have to think of living on a few million pounds each, shame about that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As a nation we keep spending billions more than we earn (the deficit). We then get out our credit card to pay for it, increasing the national debt (instead of Amex we have the international bond market) and keep paying the interest, which is huge, about £1bn a week. If the bond market suddenly decides it doesn't want to lend to us the backup plan is Wonga! We will never be debt, I suspect it would take hundreds of years, the question is can we ever run a surplus again rather than a deficit "
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Yeah I'm not sure if that possible either, I mean if you took 150 billon a year out of our economy right now, we would be dead in the water.
I mean look at the current upturn in the economy.... It's all debt based growth |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There's no hope of that anytime soon either with the exception of maybe two or three countries the whole place is a mess!.
I'd expect something colossus to happen with the world financing system within ten years!.
It's basically a giant pyramid scheme and we ask know mathematically that pyramid schemes can't go on forever |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The way I see it is, if I owed you ten pounds, I would be worried, if I owed you a billion pounds you would be worried."
If you owe £10 you get charged interest and fees, probably ending up in court and getting a CCJ against you or having the baliffs show up at your home. If you owe a billion, you blame it on the economic downturn and get bailled out by the taxpayer! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"There's no hope of that anytime soon either with the exception of maybe two or three countries the whole place is a mess!.
I'd expect something colossus to happen with the world financing system within ten years!.
It's basically a giant pyramid scheme and we ask know mathematically that pyramid schemes can't go on forever "
ooooooooooo... Ssss... h..i.. t.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The way I see it is, if I owed you ten pounds, I would be worried, if I owed you a billion pounds you would be worried.
If you owe £10 you get charged interest and fees, probably ending up in court and getting a CCJ against you or having the baliffs show up at your home. If you owe a billion, you blame it on the economic downturn and get bailled out by the taxpayer!"
Exactly |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So if everyone ows money to everyone else, just cancel the debts for everyone and start again! The only people who would lose out are the international finaciers who broker all this playing with non-existing
cash. They may have to think of living on a few million pounds each, shame about that."
 |
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The government just used smoke and mirrors to distract you from reality as they know it.
More tax revenues were possible but they didn't seek them. Judge them by what they do, not say.
The deficit was not the priority. Some of us just thought it was.
The chancellor's previous job was cloakroom towel folder. That wasn't about bringing in typical working class people, he was just public school gimp, a no hoper with the economy. Just that should help us realise what tricks were being played and a hint that it wasn't priority. Cutting pay rates was a good fringe benefit for them.
We live with political motivation that's short term. Much of it is bad for the country and our economic well being in the long term. Short-termism allows little accountability, with the Muppets long gone, if ever some sense of reality starts to dawn somewhere. They'll be directors and on the boards somewhere, doing very nicely.
Real growth is needed most but we may have heard the Freudian slip of another imminent global crash, that was trotted out by Cameron at the recent global conference. Many of them are quite happy for short term bucks from disaster capitalism inspired sell-offs at low prices and loosening os state controls so that quick gains are made by some. The deficit is the small people's problem, the richer won't be caring or much bothered by it, though some crocodile tears will be seen in public. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The government just used smoke and mirrors to distract you from reality as they know it.
More tax revenues were possible but they didn't seek them. Judge them by what they do, not say.
The deficit was not the priority. Some of us just thought it was.
The chancellor's previous job was cloakroom towel folder. That wasn't about bringing in typical working class people, he was just public school gimp, a no hoper with the economy. Just that should help us realise what tricks were being played and a hint that it wasn't priority. Cutting pay rates was a good fringe benefit for them.
We live with political motivation that's short term. Much of it is bad for the country and our economic well being in the long term. Short-termism allows little accountability, with the Muppets long gone, if ever some sense of reality starts to dawn somewhere. They'll be directors and on the boards somewhere, doing very nicely.
Real growth is needed most but we may have heard the Freudian slip of another imminent global crash, that was trotted out by Cameron at the recent global conference. Many of them are quite happy for short term bucks from disaster capitalism inspired sell-offs at low prices and loosening os state controls so that quick gains are made by some. The deficit is the small people's problem, the richer won't be caring or much bothered by it, though some crocodile tears will be seen in public."
thanks sophie... Oh hell, thats just flippin great.. Lol, time to buy gold bars and bury em? Lol
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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International Finance explained:-
A German tourist visiting Ireland calls into a hotel and asks how much a room is.
The hotel owner says 50Euros, so the tourist puts the money on the counter and asks if he can see the room.
As soon as he goes upstairs the hotel owner takes the 50Euro and and runs next door to the butcher to pay his bill.
The Butcher is happy that the hotel has paid for their meat as he owes the town prostitute for services rendered, so he takes the money and pays her.
The Prostitute is happy to get paid and instantly rushes to the hotel and pays the 50 Euros she owes for last weeks room rentals.
At this point the German tourist comes down stairs and says he doesn't like the room picks up his money and leaves the hotel.
End of the day the tourist has spent nothing. but 3 businesses have paid their debts in full.
and that is finance  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yeah....me too. Lots of people mix up debt and deficit. The deficit is less (but not as much less as hoped for). As long as there is ANY defective then the debt will continue to rise. Sadly a fair chunk of the deficit is interest on the debt.
The debt that was racked up crazily during the so-called "growth" years under Bliar and Brown. Sadly all an illusion on the back of crazy borrowing. errr no actually labour only increased the debt by 400 billon in 9 years, where as the condem have taken it up 600 billion in 5 years"
Yeah, you keep telling yourself that. Labour left the economy in a disastrous state. Massive increase in public expenditure, loads of dodgy PFI deals. Brown ran a deficit during the boom years, so what did you expect to happen during a recession. Oh, I forgot Brown told us there would be no return to boom and bust. Well he has certainly made sure he eradicated any boom.
And I am no fan of our current chancellor either, all in it together unless you are on £1million a year, and then you get an extra £50k take home with his tax cuts for the rich.
Sorry for the rant  |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"International Finance explained:-
A German tourist visiting Ireland calls into a hotel and asks how much a room is.
The hotel owner says 50Euros, so the tourist puts the money on the counter and asks if he can see the room.
As soon as he goes upstairs the hotel owner takes the 50Euro and and runs next door to the butcher to pay his bill.
The Butcher is happy that the hotel has paid for their meat as he owes the town prostitute for services rendered, so he takes the money and pays her.
The Prostitute is happy to get paid and instantly rushes to the hotel and pays the 50 Euros she owes for last weeks room rentals.
At this point the German tourist comes down stairs and says he doesn't like the room picks up his money and leaves the hotel.
End of the day the tourist has spent nothing. but 3 businesses have paid their debts in full.
and that is finance "
That only works if a previous tourist has paid his 50€ and not taken it away. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yeah....me too. Lots of people mix up debt and deficit. The deficit is less (but not as much less as hoped for). As long as there is ANY defective then the debt will continue to rise. Sadly a fair chunk of the deficit is interest on the debt.
The debt that was racked up crazily during the so-called "growth" years under Bliar and Brown. Sadly all an illusion on the back of crazy borrowing. errr no actually labour only increased the debt by 400 billon in 9 years, where as the condem have taken it up 600 billion in 5 years
Yeah, you keep telling yourself that. Labour left the economy in a disastrous state. Massive increase in public expenditure, loads of dodgy PFI deals. Brown ran a deficit during the boom years, so what did you expect to happen during a recession. Oh, I forgot Brown told us there would be no return to boom and bust. Well he has certainly made sure he eradicated any boom.
And I am no fan of our current chancellor either, all in it together unless you are on £1million a year, and then you get an extra £50k take home with his tax cuts for the rich.
Sorry for the rant "
.
That was a factual reply about how much the national debt increased under which government.
I've voted green for 14 years so I'm not really biased either way like yourself. |
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By *itzWoman
over a year ago
south wales |
The government has recently decided to pay off historic debts which were originally taken out to pay for the 1720 South Sea Bubble, the Crimean war, the Napoleonic war, the abolition of slavery, the potato famine and the First World war. We have been paying interest on these debts since they were taken out, which successive governments both Labour and Conservative have not repaid. I wonder what others are still in the book. |
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By *itzWoman
over a year ago
south wales |
"The government just used smoke and mirrors to distract you from reality as they know it.
More tax revenues were possible but they didn't seek them. Judge them by what they do, not say.
The deficit was not the priority. Some of us just thought it was.
The chancellor's previous job was cloakroom towel folder. That wasn't about bringing in typical working class people, he was just public school gimp, a no hoper with the economy. Just that should help us realise what tricks were being played and a hint that it wasn't priority. Cutting pay rates was a good fringe benefit for them.
We live with political motivation that's short term. Much of it is bad for the country and our economic well being in the long term. Short-termism allows little accountability, with the Muppets long gone, if ever some sense of reality starts to dawn somewhere. They'll be directors and on the boards somewhere, doing very nicely.
Real growth is needed most but we may have heard the Freudian slip of another imminent global crash, that was trotted out by Cameron at the recent global conference. Many of them are quite happy for short term bucks from disaster capitalism inspired sell-offs at low prices and loosening os state controls so that quick gains are made by some. The deficit is the small people's problem, the richer won't be caring or much bothered by it, though some crocodile tears will be seen in public."
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Seeing that the deficit is double what it was when the ConDem parties got in: 1. how is it double what it was and 2. How the flying feck can it be paid off?"
.
If your really interested in getting a sense how it all works and the back room scheming that goes on I'd recommend two books .
Currency wars and the death of money by James Rickards.
He writes in a manner that is easy to grasp and both books are excellent, although his prognosis for the world is not good |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Seeing that the deficit is double what it was when the ConDem parties got in: 1. how is it double what it was and 2. How the flying feck can it be paid off?.
If your really interested in getting a sense how it all works and the back room scheming that goes on I'd recommend two books .
Currency wars and the death of money by James Rickards.
He writes in a manner that is easy to grasp and both books are excellent, although his prognosis for the world is not good"
actually,,, although i'm not clued up, and perhaps not intelligent enough... i undestand the enormous mess its in .. I think i'd rather not know .. Thanks all the same  |
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So much for prudent money management . Tories got in with the help of libs on the we can do better than labour claims and despite putting the lower classes through hell have ended up in twice as much mess .. Disgraceful.. Hope all the Tory and liberal voters are pleased with themselves |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So much for prudent money management . Tories got in with the help of libs on the we can do better than labour claims and despite putting the lower classes through hell have ended up in twice as much mess .. Disgraceful.. Hope all the Tory and liberal voters are pleased with themselves"
Who ever comes to power next will make massive cuts to reduce the deficit
We have to stop living beyond our means
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Seeing that the deficit is double what it was when the ConDem parties got in: 1. how is it double what it was and 2. How the flying feck can it be paid off?.
If your really interested in getting a sense how it all works and the back room scheming that goes on I'd recommend two books .
Currency wars and the death of money by James Rickards.
He writes in a manner that is easy to grasp and both books are excellent, although his prognosis for the world is not good
actually,,, although i'm not clued up, and perhaps not intelligent enough... i undestand the enormous mess its in .. I think i'd rather not know .. Thanks all the same "
.Lol that's a fair point.
He delves into how nearly all the countries manipulate their currency to suit one agenda or the other!.
Politics and money as he points out go hand in hand, and he explains the complicated stuff very easy with plenty of analogies.
In his first book he does 2 chapters in detail about sovereign gold, and it's quite intriguing who has what and where.
But there is quite a few chapters on bonds and gilts and he points out the fact that if ever there was a financial bubble ready to go pop , bonds are it. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Seeing that the deficit is double what it was when the ConDem parties got in: 1. how is it double what it was and 2. How the flying feck can it be paid off?.
If your really interested in getting a sense how it all works and the back room scheming that goes on I'd recommend two books .
Currency wars and the death of money by James Rickards.
He writes in a manner that is easy to grasp and both books are excellent, although his prognosis for the world is not good
actually,,, although i'm not clued up, and perhaps not intelligent enough... i undestand the enormous mess its in .. I think i'd rather not know .. Thanks all the same .Lol that's a fair point.
He delves into how nearly all the countries manipulate their currency to suit one agenda or the other!.
Politics and money as he points out go hand in hand, and he explains the complicated stuff very easy with plenty of analogies.
In his first book he does 2 chapters in detail about sovereign gold, and it's quite intriguing who has what and where.
But there is quite a few chapters on bonds and gilts and he points out the fact that if ever there was a financial bubble ready to go pop , bonds are it."
lol.. The more I delve into it the more freakin awful the situation gets.. And the more shocked i get at how its being managed.. Dont know if i could stop biting my nails if i delve any further lol |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Seeing that the deficit is double what it was when the ConDem parties got in: 1. how is it double what it was and 2. How the flying feck can it be paid off?.
If your really interested in getting a sense how it all works and the back room scheming that goes on I'd recommend two books .
Currency wars and the death of money by James Rickards.
He writes in a manner that is easy to grasp and both books are excellent, although his prognosis for the world is not good
actually,,, although i'm not clued up, and perhaps not intelligent enough... i undestand the enormous mess its in .. I think i'd rather not know .. Thanks all the same .Lol that's a fair point.
He delves into how nearly all the countries manipulate their currency to suit one agenda or the other!.
Politics and money as he points out go hand in hand, and he explains the complicated stuff very easy with plenty of analogies.
In his first book he does 2 chapters in detail about sovereign gold, and it's quite intriguing who has what and where.
But there is quite a few chapters on bonds and gilts and he points out the fact that if ever there was a financial bubble ready to go pop , bonds are it."
oh what the hell.. I'll look them up. I cant do anything about it so whats the use worrying..  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Seeing that the deficit is double what it was when the ConDem parties got in: 1. how is it double what it was and 2. How the flying feck can it be paid off?.
If your really interested in getting a sense how it all works and the back room scheming that goes on I'd recommend two books .
Currency wars and the death of money by James Rickards.
He writes in a manner that is easy to grasp and both books are excellent, although his prognosis for the world is not good
actually,,, although i'm not clued up, and perhaps not intelligent enough... i undestand the enormous mess its in .. I think i'd rather not know .. Thanks all the same .Lol that's a fair point.
He delves into how nearly all the countries manipulate their currency to suit one agenda or the other!.
Politics and money as he points out go hand in hand, and he explains the complicated stuff very easy with plenty of analogies.
In his first book he does 2 chapters in detail about sovereign gold, and it's quite intriguing who has what and where.
But there is quite a few chapters on bonds and gilts and he points out the fact that if ever there was a financial bubble ready to go pop , bonds are it."
I understand most of the bonds have been bought by China. Sinister? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If all the richest countries in the world are in so much debt, America for instance is one of the richest countries in the world yet they are trillions in debt, so where the hell are they borrowing the money from, it boggles the mind.
Also I fear china are going to take over the world, until recent years they were pretty much 3rd world, their techno guy and industry is increasing by the day and they are now the wealthiest country in the world. We're all doomed, if they start a war then we won't be able to fight them because they won't lend us the money to buy the weapons.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Sorry, technology not techno guy, stupid phone, but it is quite funny to think they've got just one guy speeding up their technology "
Is he The guy that sits at the top of the tower where no one can see him..  Somebody mentioned earlier not sure If Its on This post about bonds and If there Is a financial bubble that bursts It will be about Bonds and then someone Mentioned china Has most of the bonds and It being Sinister If you could explain more on That I,d be Interested.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Sorry, technology not techno guy, stupid phone, but it is quite funny to think they've got just one guy speeding up their technology Is he The guy that sits at the top of the tower where no one can see him.. Somebody mentioned earlier not sure If Its on This post about bonds and If there Is a financial bubble that bursts It will be about Bonds and then someone Mentioned china Has most of the bonds and It being Sinister If you could explain more on That I,d be Interested.. "
.China the middle East and Russia have been buying most of the bonds for quite awhile but the last few years they've been hedging that by buying all the gold as well, the thinking being that if the day comes where somebody defaults on paying, then gold will go through the roof, so whatever they lose on bonds they gain on gold.
Bond amounts have grown in the last 20 years by somewhere around 2000%, so you can see why many think it's a bubble waiting to pop.
The reason the states have the most debt is because literally the dollar is pegged to oil, all oil is sold in dollars, even oil futures are traded in dollars.
It's analogy is writing cheques that never get cashed, so you can keep producing lots of dollars as everyone needs them to buy oil without having to worry too much about inflation.
However the problem will be monumental the day somebody decides to trade/buy oil in some other currency as all those dollars you've been creating from nothing for years will suddenly come back to you.
It kinda leaves America in an all powerful but awkward situation |
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