FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > 'Jihadi John'

'Jihadi John'

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Bet his mums proud of him.Probably tells people he's a head hunter in the city.Just doesn't say the city is in Syria and he chops the heads off.Not trying to trivialise this in any way but look forward to the day when his gang master decides he's no use anymore and he receives the same treatment.

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By *obbytupperMan over a year ago

Menston near Ilkley

"Bet his mums proud of him.Probably tells people he's a head hunter in the city.Just doesn't say the city is in Syria and he chops the heads off.Not trying to trivialise this in any way but look forward to the day when his gang master decides he's no use anymore and he receives the same treatment.

Not a thing to make jokes about.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I wasn't making a joke i was making a point as i said in the post if you took the time to understand it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well lets hope that is soon. There will always be another follower to take his place though sadly.

I don't know why he covers his face though as I am sure those close to him and love him would surely know who he is. I would know my son anywhere face covered and voice distorted.

I for one would applaud him receiving the same humiliating and barbaric evil fate.

What a truly evil cowardly bastard he is.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

i think he is a fucking psycho and enjoys killing the innocent and would do it for fun given the chance.i hope if they ever catch him they don't fuck about with human rights and they just put him in a padded cell in rampton or Broadmoor were he belongs and keep him there until he dies

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The problem is even if there does comes a day he is no longer wanted there are a thousand more men that will be willing to fill his shoes

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The problem is even if there does comes a day he is no longer wanted there are a thousand more men that will be willing to fill his shoes "

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By *entaur_UKMan over a year ago

Cannock

Lets hope an american or RAF war plane drops a very large bomb on his head sometime very soon.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's always bothered me how the Nazi's could have done what they did as with the Holocaust, I always wondered what sort of monster could have thought that the way they treated Jews and Gypsies and others in that way was anything in anyway right but it wasnt necessarily a Nazi thing, it was a evil side to humanity in Nazi guise.

This is its reappearance in extreme Islamic form.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

They're a bunch of brainwashed idiots who believe the rhetoric these preachers tell them, you never see one of the leaders blowing themselves up to get their thousand virgins do you. As for jihadi john, I hope the sas get hold of him and he meets a grizzly end and is buried in the desert, preferably whilst still alive.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's always bothered me how the Nazi's could have done what they did as with the Holocaust, I always wondered what sort of monster could have thought that the way they treated Jews and Gypsies and others in that way was anything in anyway right but it wasnt necessarily a Nazi thing, it was a evil side to humanity in Nazi guise.

This is its reappearance in extreme Islamic form."

It's not extreme to Islam. It's actually the norm.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This is its reappearance in extreme Islamic form."

A depressing thought - but time after time - era after era - there have always been people that have done cruel unimaginable things. Are we more civilised now compared to 1000 years ago, 100 years ago, 50 years ago...? Some savagery appears more sophisticated, some is as brutal as history reports it.

It reminds me of something I once read, which often resurfaces from within the darkness that is my mind:

"No such animal as historical perspective exists... It assumes without evidence that we today are more tolerant, more advanced, wiser than the dimwits who preceded us. Actually, as time passes we know less and less about more and more. The ideology of progress lets historians sequester repugnant people and events, from racists to robber barons, in the distant past, so we don't have to worry about them now."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Islam is supposed to be about peace. This ISIS or ISIL or IS or whatever the fuck they're calling themselves they're just evil, even the Taliban condemn some of the stuff they do.

Now all troops are out of afghan I can see the british army having to go there instead cos air strikes alone aren't going to get rid of them, I know there's some special forces there now they aren't there for combat.

I'd like to have this jihadi john in front of me and my friends when we're all on our period and trying to decide what film to watch or what take away to order, moaning at him and nagging and arguing amongst ourselves, we'd soon get him to turn his knife on himself.

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By *w72Man over a year ago

swansea

"Islam is supposed to be about peace. This ISIS or ISIL or IS or whatever the fuck they're calling themselves they're just evil, even the Taliban condemn some of the stuff they do.

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By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

This is its reappearance in extreme Islamic form.

It's not extreme to Islam. It's actually the norm. "

In the same way that the Spanish Inquisition is representative of Christianity?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This is its reappearance in extreme Islamic form.

It's not extreme to Islam. It's actually the norm. "

How is that then.

I think u'll find it was the Christians who have started most off the wars in modern history.

No to mention the fact that nazi's were Christian.

Or the Spanish inquisition- Christians killing Muslims n Jews.

And let's not forget the bloody crusades- yes Christians again.

Oh I nearly forgot first settlers in America, who nearly slaughtered the entire race of native Indians - the pilgrim fathers. Yes u guessed it Christians,

So I say to u Christians, what a bunch of fucking animal.

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By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

This is its reappearance in extreme Islamic form.

It's not extreme to Islam. It's actually the norm.

How is that then.

I think u'll find it was the Christians who have started most off the wars in modern history.

No to mention the fact that nazi's were Christian.

Or the Spanish inquisition- Christians killing Muslims n Jews.

And let's not forget the bloody crusades- yes Christians again.

Oh I nearly forgot first settlers in America, who nearly slaughtered the entire race of native Indians - the pilgrim fathers. Yes u guessed it Christians,

So I say to u Christians, what a bunch of fucking animal."

A pedant writes: The Nazis, whilst making certain concessions to the Catholic church, which was highly influential in Germany at the time, would not generally align themselves with Christianity in any meaningful sense.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's not extreme to Islam. It's actually the norm. "

That's a silly thing to say. Open your eyes fella.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This isn't going to end well.

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By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

"This isn't going to end well. "

I'm putting the kettle on as we speak..

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By *he tactile technicianMan over a year ago

the good lands, the bad lands, the any where you may want me lands

he'll return to the UK when he's had enough and take up a post as Head of terminations for an international firm, the security is so wooly here.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The world is a fucked up place, most wars revolved around religion in one form or other, you've got to wonder what the world would be like if there was no religion at all and if there is no god and religion in all forms is just something made up by us humans because we are too weak to accept that death is the end then all wars have been for nothing. A bus load of defenceless none Muslims were executed yesterday simply because they were not Muslim. I'd like to see the chapter in the Qoran that explains that. The fuckers

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This is its reappearance in extreme Islamic form.

It's not extreme to Islam. It's actually the norm.

How is that then.

I think u'll find it was the Christians who have started most off the wars in modern history.

No to mention the fact that nazi's were Christian.

Or the Spanish inquisition- Christians killing Muslims n Jews.

And let's not forget the bloody crusades- yes Christians again.

Oh I nearly forgot first settlers in America, who nearly slaughtered the entire race of native Indians - the pilgrim fathers. Yes u guessed it Christians,

So I say to u Christians, what a bunch of fucking animal."

You're talking about historic events there that took place many moons ago. Currently there are extremist Muslims seeking to kill none combatant westerners simply because they are not Muslim, when was the last time you read that a Christian had cut someone's head off because they were of another faith. The Muslim faith is peace loving but the radical preachers twist and perverse snippets of the Qoran to turn once peace lovers into extremists and cold blooded murderers. The beheadings of aid workers who went to Syria to help Muslims proves that for fuck sake.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

not fit to walk the earth simple as

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

there are no words to describe this individual, but this earth will be a richer place the day he departs it...........

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"there are no words to describe this individual, but this earth will be a richer place the day he departs it..........."

Problem is that he's just a puppet being used, the isil leaders use the homegrown Muslims to front these videos so they themselves can remain hidden, they are seen as westernised and are threatened with death themselves if they try to leave, Muslim or not. Anyway, I'm off to another thread to see some boobies

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This is its reappearance in extreme Islamic form.

It's not extreme to Islam. It's actually the norm.

How is that then.

I think u'll find it was the Christians who have started most off the wars in modern history.

No to mention the fact that nazi's were Christian.

Or the Spanish inquisition- Christians killing Muslims n Jews.

And let's not forget the bloody crusades- yes Christians again.

Oh I nearly forgot first settlers in America, who nearly slaughtered the entire race of native Indians - the pilgrim fathers. Yes u guessed it Christians,

So I say to u Christians, what a bunch of fucking animal.

Don't forget - they're killing other Muslims too...

Islam and therefore it's adherents (as I imagine is the case with many ideologically driven groups, religious, political or otherwise) aren't identifiable as one homogeneous group of followers - despite what Bill O'Reilly would have us all believe.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

[Removed by poster at 22/11/14 20:47:27]

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

"there are no words to describe this individual, but this earth will be a richer place the day he departs it...........

as I say, the world will be a better place without him in it...

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By *imiUKMan over a year ago

Hereford

This is its reappearance in extreme Islamic form.

It's not extreme to Islam. It's actually the norm.

How is that then.

I think u'll find it was the Christians who have started most off the wars in modern history.

No to mention the fact that nazi's were Christian.

Or the Spanish inquisition- Christians killing Muslims n Jews.

And let's not forget the bloody crusades- yes Christians again.

Oh I nearly forgot first settlers in America, who nearly slaughtered the entire race of native Indians - the pilgrim fathers. Yes u guessed it Christians,

So I say to u Christians, what a bunch of fucking animal.

So, time passing negates brutality?

I'll wager all of the IRA are/were catholics and they did some pretty brutal things - do they represent Catholicism as a whole?

Isn't Mugabe an arden't Catholic.....

And hasn't he recently started threatening to behead homosexuals?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The man is a murderer. End of. Religion hasn't made him do it, as if religion hadn't been a concept as suggested, it would be something else.

let's focus on his victims, who were all doing greater good...how many of us without Google can name them ? I can't and that's sad. So let's give them the publicity not the evil.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

It's not extreme to Islam. It's actually the norm.

That's a silly thing to say. Open your eyes fella. "

this..

no need for ignorance..

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By *illbillMan over a year ago

dublin

Times have changed for the better and for the worse . As a person who witnessed first hand the dark side of British military occupation i never held the military in high esteem but i felt genuinely sick when lee rigby was butchered . I hope the military March in crush these nut jobs. I wish them well cause these crazies are in league with the devil .

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This is its reappearance in extreme Islamic form.

It's not extreme to Islam. It's actually the norm.

How is that then.

I think u'll find it was the Christians who have started most off the wars in modern history.

No to mention the fact that nazi's were Christian.

Or the Spanish inquisition- Christians killing Muslims n Jews.

And let's not forget the bloody crusades- yes Christians again.

Oh I nearly forgot first settlers in America, who nearly slaughtered the entire race of native Indians - the pilgrim fathers. Yes u guessed it Christians,

So I say to u Christians, what a bunch of fucking animal.

So, time passing negates brutality?

I'll wager all of the IRA are/were catholics and they did some pretty brutal things - do they represent Catholicism as a whole?

Isn't Mugabe an arden't Catholic.....

And hasn't he recently started threatening to behead homosexuals?

I wasn't referring to Muslims as a whole, I said Muslims were peace lovers, I was referring to the extremist element as it says.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

The shocking fact is there are probably hundreds of men and women wanting to step in his shoes once he has gone.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There are approximately 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, to suggest this man represents them is ridiculous.

To suggest ISIS represents them is equally ridiculous.

I'm led to believe you could fit all the ISIS fighters in a football stadium.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"They're a bunch of brainwashed idiots who believe the rhetoric these preachers tell them, you never see one of the leaders blowing themselves up to get their thousand virgins do you. As for jihadi john, I hope the sas get hold of him and he meets a grizzly end and is buried in the desert, preferably whilst still alive.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The sooner we stop referring to these people as Muslim the better. They would like to represent Islam but they don't unless we allow them to.

Scott Roeder a Christian extremist murdered a Physician because he worked in the abortion business. This happened in modern USA.

Does Scott Roeder represent you? Does he represent the billions of Christians? Is he the norm for Christianity?

He doesn't represent me.

Ignorance is as much an enemy as Jihadi John. ISIS kills more Muslims than it has or probably will Christians.

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By *ilthyfucks69Couple over a year ago

Neverland

Dont understand your message, iv never spoke to you

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 22/11/14 21:22:43]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Ok.

Since the dawn of time and the invention of religion (yes it's a concept invented by man to make mankind believe we are more important than we actually are)

There have been awful atrocities carried out in the name of religion from the sacking of byzantium and constantinople during the crusades,the Spanish inquisition, ethnic cleansing in Europe. War atrocities carried out by the nazis against Jews. Etc..

There have been countless killings in the name of religion on all sides in just about every religion going.

The fact is what this man has done is an appalling act of barbarism and should wiped off the face of the earth with extreme prejudice. "

Well googled

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Nope I read things called book's

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Nope I read things called book's "

What, real paper ones with pages and everything, how quaint

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Old fashioned concept I know

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's not extreme to Islam. It's actually the norm.

That's a silly thing to say. Open your eyes fella. "

You're absolutely right. My eyes are shut to my ignorance.

But wait........

Isn't it Islamic countries such as Saudi Arabia that allow public executions by way of beheading? With a sword? Along with other humane capital punishments such as firing squad, hanging, and stoning?

Is it not Sharia Law that executes the guilty for Adultery or Homosexuality, or even deciding to renounce the Islamic faith?? As seen in Sudan earlier this year.

My apologies if I have this all wrong. That my original statement of "It's not extreme to Islam, it's actually the norm" is completely out.

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By *luezuluMan over a year ago

Suffolk

"i think he is a fucking psycho and enjoys killing the innocent and would do it for fun given the chance.i hope if they ever catch him they don't fuck about with human rights and they just put him in a padded cell in rampton or Broadmoor were he belongs and keep him there until he dies"

Why not just shoot him, he doesn't deserve to live

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There's actually over a hundred versus in the Quran that actually incite murder without interpretation.

I believe the specific one your looking for is.

3- Book of Muhammad, verse 4 (47:4) - “Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), strike off their heads; at length; then when you have made wide Slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives”: thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens.”

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

outspoken cleric/pbs news hour/peter kassigs type that in google or youtube mite help

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There's actually over a hundred versus in the Quran that actually incite murder without interpretation.

I believe the specific one your looking for is.

Hmmm.... Did a quick google on that one.

Where you've parenthesised 'in fight' - it means 'in battle' or theatre of war - so in this instance it's not murder, as is most commonly understood.

The 'generosity' bit is advice that that prisoners of war can be freed without ransom.

The 'context' behind the verses are freely available via google - I'm sure there's a version to fit every perspective.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Were did you read that translation not all translations are right not trying to kick off or anything you have to be carefull when reading translation also you need the commentry and who its writen by

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"there are no words to describe this individual, but this earth will be a richer place the day he departs it..........."

Hit the nail on the head bud

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"there are no words to describe this individual, but this earth will be a richer place the day he departs it...........

Hit the nail on the head bud"

Agreed

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There's actually over a hundred versus in the Quran that actually incite murder without interpretation.

I believe the specific one your looking for is.

Hmmm.... Did a quick google on that one.

Where you've parenthesised 'in fight' - it means 'in battle' or theatre of war - so in this instance it's not murder, as is most commonly understood.

The 'generosity' bit is advice that that prisoners of war can be freed without ransom.

The 'context' behind the verses are freely available via google - I'm sure there's a version to fit every perspective.

"
.

Have another .

4- Book of Al-Tawba, verse 123 (9:123) - “Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you.”

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's not extreme to Islam. It's actually the norm.

That's a silly thing to say. Open your eyes fella.

You're absolutely right. My eyes are shut to my ignorance.

But wait........

Isn't it Islamic countries such as Saudi Arabia that allow public executions by way of beheading? With a sword? Along with other humane capital punishments such as firing squad, hanging, and stoning?

Is it not Sharia Law that executes the guilty for Adultery or Homosexuality, or even deciding to renounce the Islamic faith?? As seen in Sudan earlier this year.

My apologies if I have this all wrong. That my original statement of "It's not extreme to Islam, it's actually the norm" is completely out.

Your original statement is ignorant.

You have chosen Saudi Arabia probably the most extreme Islamic regime in the world but with a relatively low population. Why didn't you mention Indonesia or India? Each of those countries have much more Muslims than ANY middle east country.

How does Uganda treat homosexuality? Uganda is a Christian country.

You're using two or three examples to justify a generalisation. That is the definition of bigotry.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There's actually over a hundred versus in the Quran that actually incite murder without interpretation.

I believe the specific one your looking for is.

Hmmm.... Did a quick google on that one.

Where you've parenthesised 'in fight' - it means 'in battle' or theatre of war - so in this instance it's not murder, as is most commonly understood.

The 'generosity' bit is advice that that prisoners of war can be freed without ransom.

The 'context' behind the verses are freely available via google - I'm sure there's a version to fit every perspective.

Have another .

4- Book of Al-Tawba, verse 123 (9:123) - “Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you.”"

I think that baghdadi fella must have gotten his Islam from the same websites you're looking at, perhaps?

Here is link you may find useful - which lends credence to something a previous poster mentioned about the other 1.6bn muslims who are not in anyway represented by the actions of isis...

https://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=966&region=E1&CR=EN,E2&CR=EN,E2

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

And another pearl of wisdom about women. And you think Nigel farage is a sexist.

Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and forsake them in beds apart, and beat them.”

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I dont think by going on google and reading bits and bobs not going to get the undetstanding of islam try checking the history of damascus(syria) were jews,christains,muslims all have bein living side by side for over 1500 hundred years the saudi family do not repsent islam there dogs of the devil read up about the jews christain muslims living togeather in arabia

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's not extreme to Islam. It's actually the norm.

That's a silly thing to say. Open your eyes fella.

You're absolutely right. My eyes are shut to my ignorance.

But wait........

Isn't it Islamic countries such as Saudi Arabia that allow public executions by way of beheading? With a sword? Along with other humane capital punishments such as firing squad, hanging, and stoning?

Is it not Sharia Law that executes the guilty for Adultery or Homosexuality, or even deciding to renounce the Islamic faith?? As seen in Sudan earlier this year.

My apologies if I have this all wrong. That my original statement of "It's not extreme to Islam, it's actually the norm" is completely out.

Your original statement is ignorant.

How does Uganda treat homosexuality? Uganda is a Christian country.

You're using two or three examples to justify a generalisation. That is the definition of bigotry."
.Your confusing fascist dictator in a Christian country..

Find me verses in the bible where it says behead homosexuals.

Beat and enslave women.

Marry a child.

Don't get me wrong I'm no fan of Christianity and it's purges of evil over the years but just as there is no justification in them, the time had come for Muslims to say wait a minute, this isn't on in the 21st century.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I dont think by going on google and reading bits and bobs not going to get the undetstanding of islam try checking the history of damascus(syria) were jews,christains,muslims all have bein living side by side for over 1500 hundred years the saudi family do not repsent islam there dogs of the devil read up about the jews christain muslims living togeather in arabia

It's called confirmation bias - and much of humankind is guilty of it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's not extreme to Islam. It's actually the norm.

That's a silly thing to say. Open your eyes fella.

You're absolutely right. My eyes are shut to my ignorance.

But wait........

Isn't it Islamic countries such as Saudi Arabia that allow public executions by way of beheading? With a sword? Along with other humane capital punishments such as firing squad, hanging, and stoning?

Is it not Sharia Law that executes the guilty for Adultery or Homosexuality, or even deciding to renounce the Islamic faith?? As seen in Sudan earlier this year.

My apologies if I have this all wrong. That my original statement of "It's not extreme to Islam, it's actually the norm" is completely out.

Your original statement is ignorant.

How does Uganda treat homosexuality? Uganda is a Christian country.

You're using two or three examples to justify a generalisation. That is the definition of bigotry."

Lol whatever!! Nice one!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yes it does say about beating your wife up go check the commentry on that and what it means

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There's actually over a hundred versus in the Quran that actually incite murder without interpretation.

I believe the specific one your looking for is.

Hmmm.... Did a quick google on that one.

Where you've parenthesised 'in fight' - it means 'in battle' or theatre of war - so in this instance it's not murder, as is most commonly understood.

The 'generosity' bit is advice that that prisoners of war can be freed without ransom.

The 'context' behind the verses are freely available via google - I'm sure there's a version to fit every perspective.

Have another .

4- Book of Al-Tawba, verse 123 (9:123) - “Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you.”

I think that baghdadi fella must have gotten his Islam from the same websites you're looking at, perhaps?

Here is link you may find useful - which lends credence to something a previous poster mentioned about the other 1.6bn muslims who are not in anyway represented by the actions of isis...

https://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=966&region=E1&CR=EN,E2&CR=EN,E2"
.

All religions preach evil.

But you can't pc bullshit your way out of it. Islam is one of the worst.

Find me a democratic Christian country you can be executed for blasphemy.

I bet you can Google three or four Muslim ones.

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By *ipswingCouple over a year ago

portrush

... imagine theres no countries.. it isnt hard to do... nothing to kill or die for, and no religions too...

you may say i,m a dreamer... but i am not the only one.... john lennon....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Find me verses in the bible where it says behead homosexuals.

Beat and enslave women.

Marry a child.

Does it have to be beheading homosexuals? How about: "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them. (Leviticus 20:13) "

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" ... imagine theres no countries.. it isnt hard to do... nothing to kill or die for, and no religions too...

you may say i,m a dreamer... but i am not the only one.... john lennon....

"
.

You keep on playing those mind games forever.

God is a concept for which we measure our pain

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There's actually over a hundred versus in the Quran that actually incite murder without interpretation.

I believe the specific one your looking for is.

Hmmm.... Did a quick google on that one.

Where you've parenthesised 'in fight' - it means 'in battle' or theatre of war - so in this instance it's not murder, as is most commonly understood.

The 'generosity' bit is advice that that prisoners of war can be freed without ransom.

The 'context' behind the verses are freely available via google - I'm sure there's a version to fit every perspective.

Have another .

4- Book of Al-Tawba, verse 123 (9:123) - “Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you.”

I think that baghdadi fella must have gotten his Islam from the same websites you're looking at, perhaps?

Here is link you may find useful - which lends credence to something a previous poster mentioned about the other 1.6bn muslims who are not in anyway represented by the actions of isis...

https://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=966&region=E1&CR=EN,E2&CR=EN,E2.

All religions preach evil.

But you can't pc bullshit your way out of it. Islam is one of the worst.

Find me a democratic Christian country you can be executed for blasphemy.

I bet you can Google three or four Muslim ones.

I'm sure I can google more than three or four muslim ones - I'd also probably be able to google a few muslim countries where you've had female heads of state and others where they can't even vote!

It's scary, though not surprising, how differently people see the same thing - and use what they need to take what they want.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I dont think religions preach evil you should you should do your research if your keep lookin for negative you will find it try researching something good about a religion see what comes up

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By *inaTitzTV/TS over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

I don't think any book composed 1500-2000 years ago will be fully down with the kids today. I'd expect the bible to have some very questionable parts, or Beowulf and so on.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't think any book composed 1500-2000 years ago will be fully down with the kids today. I'd expect the bible to have some very questionable parts, or Beowulf and so on.

Lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There's actually over a hundred versus in the Quran that actually incite murder without interpretation.

I believe the specific one your looking for is.

Hmmm.... Did a quick google on that one.

Where you've parenthesised 'in fight' - it means 'in battle' or theatre of war - so in this instance it's not murder, as is most commonly understood.

The 'generosity' bit is advice that that prisoners of war can be freed without ransom.

The 'context' behind the verses are freely available via google - I'm sure there's a version to fit every perspective.

Have another .

4- Book of Al-Tawba, verse 123 (9:123) - “Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you.”

I think that baghdadi fella must have gotten his Islam from the same websites you're looking at, perhaps?

Here is link you may find useful - which lends credence to something a previous poster mentioned about the other 1.6bn muslims who are not in anyway represented by the actions of isis...

https://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=966&region=E1&CR=EN,E2&CR=EN,E2.

All religions preach evil.

But you can't pc bullshit your way out of it. Islam is one of the worst.

Find me a democratic Christian country you can be executed for blasphemy.

I bet you can Google three or four Muslim ones.

I'm sure I can google more than three or four muslim ones - I'd also probably be able to google a few muslim countries where you've had female heads of state and others where they can't even vote!

It's scary, though not surprising, how differently people see the same thing - and use what they need to take what they want.

"
.

You can say what you like but look at it this way....

If gangs off thirty or forty Christian men were systematically rounding up young vulnerable Muslim girls under the age of 16 giving them drugs and alcohol and taking them round the country from city to city for gang rapes.

How do you think the papers and tv would have reacted.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

..Your confusing fascist dictator in a Christian country..

Find me verses in the bible where it says behead homosexuals.

Beat and enslave women.

Marry a child.

I'm not confusing anything, I am stating fact. Uganda is seen as a Christian country. The homosexuality laws are popular within the country. Does that represent the whole of the Christian world or is it an extreme _iew?

Beat and enslave women! Are you talking about Turkey? Indonesia? Malaysia? You're trying to generalise 1.6 billion Muslims based on the acts of a few extremists!

Did you know Muslim countries have elected seven women as their heads of state? How many women have been head of state in the western world?

Do you really want to start looking at verses in the bible?

Come on, it's not Muslims, it's not Islam. It's extremists that are the problem. Ignorance doesn't help.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan over a year ago

London

Beating women isn't unique to Islam. Come on. Christianity is a patriarchal religion just as much.

Some of the highest rates of domestic violence comes in Christian countries like Ethiopia and Peru.

All Christians aren't like the fluffy old Church of England.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There's actually over a hundred versus in the Quran that actually incite murder without interpretation.

I believe the specific one your looking for is.

Hmmm.... Did a quick google on that one.

Where you've parenthesised 'in fight' - it means 'in battle' or theatre of war - so in this instance it's not murder, as is most commonly understood.

The 'generosity' bit is advice that that prisoners of war can be freed without ransom.

The 'context' behind the verses are freely available via google - I'm sure there's a version to fit every perspective.

Have another .

4- Book of Al-Tawba, verse 123 (9:123) - “Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you.”

I think that baghdadi fella must have gotten his Islam from the same websites you're looking at, perhaps?

Here is link you may find useful - which lends credence to something a previous poster mentioned about the other 1.6bn muslims who are not in anyway represented by the actions of isis...

https://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=966&region=E1&CR=EN,E2&CR=EN,E2.

All religions preach evil.

But you can't pc bullshit your way out of it. Islam is one of the worst.

Find me a democratic Christian country you can be executed for blasphemy.

I bet you can Google three or four Muslim ones.

I'm sure I can google more than three or four muslim ones - I'd also probably be able to google a few muslim countries where you've had female heads of state and others where they can't even vote!

It's scary, though not surprising, how differently people see the same thing - and use what they need to take what they want.

You can say what you like but look at it this way....

How do you think the papers and tv would have reacted."

Hopefully the same way the media reacted to the Asian/muslim men rounding up and grooming under-aged muslim girls...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2416586/Gangs-Asian-men-grooming-MUSLIM-girls-plying-drink-drugs.html

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By *hetalkingstoveMan over a year ago

London

Beat and enslave women! Are you talking about Turkey? Indonesia? Malaysia? You're trying to generalise 1.6 billion Muslims based on the acts of a few extremists!

Did you know Muslim countries have elected seven women as their heads of state? How many women have been head of state in the western world?

Do you really want to start looking at verses in the bible?

Come on, it's not Muslims, it's not Islam. It's extremists that are the problem. Ignorance doesn't help."

Islam is not a monolith. Some people don't apparently realise that it covers Africa, Asia, Europe. Opinions vary wildly within that.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

Do the Ku Klux Klan or Westboro Baptist Church (tossers) represent all of Christianity? I think not. Neither do IS represent Muslims.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There's actually over a hundred versus in the Quran that actually incite murder without interpretation.

I believe the specific one your looking for is.

Hmmm.... Did a quick google on that one.

Where you've parenthesised 'in fight' - it means 'in battle' or theatre of war - so in this instance it's not murder, as is most commonly understood.

The 'generosity' bit is advice that that prisoners of war can be freed without ransom.

The 'context' behind the verses are freely available via google - I'm sure there's a version to fit every perspective.

Have another .

4- Book of Al-Tawba, verse 123 (9:123) - “Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you.”

I think that baghdadi fella must have gotten his Islam from the same websites you're looking at, perhaps?

Here is link you may find useful - which lends credence to something a previous poster mentioned about the other 1.6bn muslims who are not in anyway represented by the actions of isis...

https://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=966&region=E1&CR=EN,E2&CR=EN,E2.

All religions preach evil.

But you can't pc bullshit your way out of it. Islam is one of the worst.

Find me a democratic Christian country you can be executed for blasphemy.

I bet you can Google three or four Muslim ones.

I'm sure I can google more than three or four muslim ones - I'd also probably be able to google a few muslim countries where you've had female heads of state and others where they can't even vote!

It's scary, though not surprising, how differently people see the same thing - and use what they need to take what they want.

You can say what you like but look at it this way....

How do you think the papers and tv would have reacted.

Hopefully the same way the media reacted to the Asian/muslim men rounding up and grooming under-aged muslim girls...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2416586/Gangs-Asian-men-grooming-MUSLIM-girls-plying-drink-drugs.html

"
.

That's normal coverage of the story and considering how widespread with several groups discovered and rumours of high up coverups it really didn't get the coverage in my eyes it should have.

There's something intrinsically wrong with parts of that religion and culture that need to be purged into the public eye and tippy toeing round in PC shoes ain't solving shit

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Do the Ku Klux Klan or Westboro Baptist Church (tossers) represent all of Christianity? I think not. Neither do IS represent Muslims. "

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There's actually over a hundred versus in the Quran that actually incite murder without interpretation.

I believe the specific one your looking for is.

Hmmm.... Did a quick google on that one.

Where you've parenthesised 'in fight' - it means 'in battle' or theatre of war - so in this instance it's not murder, as is most commonly understood.

The 'generosity' bit is advice that that prisoners of war can be freed without ransom.

The 'context' behind the verses are freely available via google - I'm sure there's a version to fit every perspective.

Have another .

4- Book of Al-Tawba, verse 123 (9:123) - “Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you.”

I think that baghdadi fella must have gotten his Islam from the same websites you're looking at, perhaps?

Here is link you may find useful - which lends credence to something a previous poster mentioned about the other 1.6bn muslims who are not in anyway represented by the actions of isis...

https://www.alislam.org/quran/tafseer/?page=966&region=E1&CR=EN,E2&CR=EN,E2.

All religions preach evil.

But you can't pc bullshit your way out of it. Islam is one of the worst.

Find me a democratic Christian country you can be executed for blasphemy.

I bet you can Google three or four Muslim ones.

I'm sure I can google more than three or four muslim ones - I'd also probably be able to google a few muslim countries where you've had female heads of state and others where they can't even vote!

It's scary, though not surprising, how differently people see the same thing - and use what they need to take what they want.

You can say what you like but look at it this way....

How do you think the papers and tv would have reacted.

Hopefully the same way the media reacted to the Asian/muslim men rounding up and grooming under-aged muslim girls...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2416586/Gangs-Asian-men-grooming-MUSLIM-girls-plying-drink-drugs.html

That's normal coverage of the story and considering how widespread with several groups discovered and rumours of high up coverups it really didn't get the coverage in my eyes it should have.

There's something intrinsically wrong with parts of that religion and culture that need to be purged into the public eye and tippy toeing round in PC shoes ain't solving shit"

You're quite right - the bigger story was muslim/asian gang on white girls - the muslim girls sadly, almost became forgotten victims.

I'd be inclined to agree that it was a specific problem with the religion or culture if these examples you've provided were prevalent amongst the many muslim countries around the world.

Sadly, men (and women) of all colours and creeds have been responsible for despicable acts with or without scripture.

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By *arisjokerMan over a year ago

Admaston

"Imagine no possessions " which he,sang from his multi million pound house...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Hey you won't see me sticking up for Christians I'm not bigoted I hate people of all faiths equally

The thing is I've slagged of the catholic priests that have systematically raped young boys and the cover up for years from the top of the church leaders.

The difference being we can openly pull apart the Christian Church without fear of fatwas from the archbishop.

And it wasn't covered up by civil servants who didn't wish to "upset" the peace loving Muslims.

You know for a religion of peace as everyone keeps telling me, we seem to be pretty dammed feared of upsetting them.

Now you keep telling me their not real Muslims their not the real sons of Allah, how do we know who are the real disciples?.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Hey you won't see me sticking up for Christians I'm not bigoted I hate people of all faiths equally

The thing is I've slagged of the catholic priests that have systematically raped young boys and the cover up for years from the top of the church leaders.

The difference being we can openly pull apart the Christian Church without fear of fatwas from the archbishop.

And it wasn't covered up by civil servants who didn't wish to "upset" the peace loving Muslims.

You know for a religion of peace as everyone keeps telling me, we seem to be pretty dammed feared of upsetting them.

Now you keep telling me their not real Muslims their not the real sons of Allah, how do we know who are the real disciples?."

Start with the 1.6bn that don't go around perpetrating crimes against humanity - you may or may not discover any disciples but you're sure to find lots of decent human beings.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Now you keep telling me their not real Muslims their not the real sons of Allah, how do we know who are the real disciples?."

Who has told you that they are not real Muslims?

I am stating that they don't represent ALL Muslims.

The Ku Klux Klan are still real Christians.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"
.

Yeah well it's not just Christians is it.... I mean who stood up against those Muslims that blew up the golden dome in sammara, one of the most sacred shia shrines..

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

TheGentlemanCometh: It's not extreme to Islam. It's actually the norm

Totally ridiculous thing to say. So let’s listen to the voice of reason from a normal, moderate member of the Islamic/Easton ethnic community.

asianbrumies:

I think u'll find it was the Christians who have started most off the wars in modern history.

No to mention the fact that nazi's were Christian.

Or the Spanish inquisition- Christians killing Muslims n Jews.

And let's not forget the bloody crusades- yes Christians again.

Oh I nearly forgot first settlers in America, who nearly slaughtered the entire race of native Indians - the pilgrim fathers. Yes u guessed it Christians,

So I say to u Christians, what a bunch of fucking animal.

Well thanks a lot AsianBrummies. You really proved him wrong with that outburst of one sided half-truths.

So one-by-one

The Christians have not started most of the wars in modern history. Most of the war sin modern history have been started by Fascists or Communists, both of which are in fact atheist.

The Nazi, as has already been pointed out, were not Christian. That’s not to say that some, maybe even a lot, of people who supported them were not Christian but they themselves were not Christian but again Atheist. However it should be noted that Himmler himself professed many Muslim ideas and regarded Mohamed in quite high esteem. (Google it if you don’t believe me).

The Spanish Inquisition was against Heretical Christians. It could not, and did not touch you if you were a Jew or Muslin (Unless you claimed to have converted). It was pretty tough on you if you were a Protestant mind.

Yes, let’s not forget the Crusades. They were almost as bloody and cruel to the people in the areas they conquered as the original muslin Jihads a few hundred years before them. Let us not forget that the Islamic world was carved out the old Christian Byzantium Empire by force and the people living were given the simple choice of convert to Islam, leave, die or become second class citizens. I bot like the Christians did in North America a few hundred years later.

The reality is than people, whether they be Christian, Jewish, Muslin, Hindu or Atheist can do wicked and evil things. And the only way to defeat evil is by standing up against, not by excusing it because some other evil was committed by someone else some many years before.

If you don’t want people to believe that Muslims are a bunch of animals (and I don’t) then stop supporting rouge Muslims just because they say they’re doing something in the name of God and Islam

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Hey you won't see me sticking up for Christians I'm not bigoted I hate people of all faiths equally

The thing is I've slagged of the catholic priests that have systematically raped young boys and the cover up for years from the top of the church leaders.

The difference being we can openly pull apart the Christian Church without fear of fatwas from the archbishop.

And it wasn't covered up by civil servants who didn't wish to "upset" the peace loving Muslims.

You know for a religion of peace as everyone keeps telling me, we seem to be pretty dammed feared of upsetting them.

Now you keep telling me their not real Muslims their not the real sons of Allah, how do we know who are the real disciples?.

Start with the 1.6bn that don't go around perpetrating crimes against humanity - you may or may not discover any disciples but you're sure to find lots of decent human beings. "
.

I don't have to I live in a free democratic country. I'm not the one that needs to find the "good" Muslims.... It's them that need to expel these bad ones.

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By *rown_cock_edinMan over a year ago

edinburgh

This is its reappearance in extreme Islamic form.

It's not extreme to Islam. It's actually the norm.

In the same way that the Spanish Inquisition is representative of Christianity?"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"TheGentlemanCometh: It's not extreme to Islam. It's actually the norm

Totally ridiculous thing to say. So let’s listen to the voice of reason from a normal, moderate member of the Islamic/Easton ethnic community.

asianbrumies:

I think u'll find it was the Christians who have started most off the wars in modern history.

No to mention the fact that nazi's were Christian.

Or the Spanish inquisition- Christians killing Muslims n Jews.

And let's not forget the bloody crusades- yes Christians again.

Oh I nearly forgot first settlers in America, who nearly slaughtered the entire race of native Indians - the pilgrim fathers. Yes u guessed it Christians,

So I say to u Christians, what a bunch of fucking animal.

Well thanks a lot AsianBrummies. You really proved him wrong with that outburst of one sided half-truths.

So one-by-one

The Christians have not started most of the wars in modern history. Most of the war sin modern history have been started by Fascists or Communists, both of which are in fact atheist.

Well said, now can we put this thread to bed now, it was always going to end in tears, we have established that the world is full of nutters from all religions

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yeah well it's not just Christians is it.... I mean who stood up against those Muslims that blew up the golden dome in sammara, one of the most sacred shia shrines.."
you can say tge same for the so-called shia that go.around blowing or trying to blow shrines to are all shia's the same no its groups of people with nothing to do with islam or muslims useing the name of islam to carry out there madness

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

Thank you Gbiggy but I've also got a rant against your previous comment

We don’t have to wonder what the world would be like without religion because we’ve seen what it’s like without religion. Nazi Germany (responsible for the deaths of over 10,000,000 innocent people) and the Communist USSR (believed to be responsible for the deaths of over 30,000,000 innocent people). That’s more dead people in 1 century than in all the Crusades, Jihads, Inquisitions or witch burnings throughout history.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

By the way that shrine is more importent to sunni muslims it the goverment there shia and handed it down to the shia like other shrines,holy sites etc

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Thank you Gbiggy but I've also got a rant against your previous comment

"
.

The communists also lost 45 million people fighting the Nazis so you could write this tonight.

The fact of the matter is it's a totalitarian religion none of us could be here tonight writing this in a Muslim county this website couldn't even exist.

It might be a religion of peace but certainly isn't a religion of freedoms.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

[Removed by poster at 23/11/14 01:24:46]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Thank you Gbiggy but I've also got a rant against your previous comment

The communists also lost 45 million people fighting the Nazis so you could write this tonight.

The fact of the matter is it's a totalitarian religion none of us could be here tonight writing this in a Muslim county this website couldn't even exist.

It might be a religion of peace but certainly isn't a religion of freedoms."

I checked my Fab account the last time I was in Turkey. Even posted on the forums.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

I think you would find that most real Christians would not approve of this site and if they could would probably try and ban it.

Religion, by its vary nature, is never very tolerant. That's why, although the bases of our law is from Abrahamic beliefs about right and wrong, we no longer put the church in charge of legislating the laws we live under.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Thank you Gbiggy but I've also got a rant against your previous comment

The communists also lost 45 million people fighting the Nazis so you could write this tonight.

The fact of the matter is it's a totalitarian religion none of us could be here tonight writing this in a Muslim county this website couldn't even exist.

It might be a religion of peace but certainly isn't a religion of freedoms.

I checked my Fab account the last time I was in Turkey. Even posted on the forums. "
Turkey is secular.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

Blackspice

I checked my Fab account the last time I was in Turkey. Even posted on the forums.

While most of the population of Turkey is Islamic, Turkey itself is a secular state in exactly the same as most of the population of The United Kingdom is Christian but The United Kingdom is a Secular state. In neither turkey nor here do we have religious leaders being the primary movers for legislation.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think you would find that most real Christians would not approve of this site and if they could would probably try and ban it.

I'm an atheist there's no point quoting Christian wrong doing to me.

My point was at least I'm free to disagree and criticise Christian states, the same cannot be said for Muslim ones.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

In my limited experience I've found most Atheist far less tolerant of other peoples beliefs than most Christians, Muslims, Jews, Agnostics or any other faith. They seem to me to have lost their grasp on the most basic principle of a tolerant society. That is live and let live. (But I guess that discussion is for another thread on another day).

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By *otsoSnowWhiteWoman over a year ago

My Ice Castle! South Wales

This may have been said already but I don't care it has to be said.

No God in any religion surely condones the killing of another human being for whatever purpose!

No matter what religion you are what you believe killing isn't right! We all deserve to live 8 this world. That is humans right!

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By *otsoSnowWhiteWoman over a year ago

My Ice Castle! South Wales

In not 8!

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

Very well and simply said

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Think people are forgetting there was a muslim regiment in the nazi regime..history has a habit of repeating itself cos we don't learn from it. Religion was made up to keep the peasants in order all those years ago.. As a ex forces of 14yrs service, I personally think we are entering into the beginning of the end..its only a matter of time..cos as I said earlier..we dont learn an it will be our undoing..

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By *ecretly seductiveWoman over a year ago

Palookaville

This is its reappearance in extreme Islamic form."

you would love to think I this day And age we would be beyond being so cruelly barbaric to our fellow human beings. My heart goes out to the families of all those killed .

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Like i say. We need to look at the root causes of all this. Once we tackle that, then you'd find the solutions.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

Yes we do need to solve the root causes of the problem but EVIL is EVIL and should be condemned.

Jihadi John is EVIL. No excuses, no equivocation. He, and his actions, should be condemned by all decent people not excused because of some perceived wrong he, or you, feel has been done.

If you don't confront evil it spreads like a cancer and eventually ends up killing YOU.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This is its reappearance in extreme Islamic form.

It's not extreme to Islam. It's actually the norm. "

Erm, excuse me?? I wasn't aware I went around beheading innocent people!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The United Kingdom is a Secular state. In neither turkey nor here do we have religious leaders being the primary movers for legislation.

Apart from the fact there is an established church in Britain and you have Bishops of the Church of England in the House of Lords...

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

for those of you quoting the Muslim holy book to prove a point... i'd be very careful, because if you have ever read passages of the old testament... it isn't exactly sweetness and light in there either......

the security services know who this guy is.... they just haven't named him publically......

his name is on the internet if you look hard enough, the reason why they haven't named him offically is likely to be the backlash against his uk family.... and various operations probably being conducted

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

I wondered when someone was going to raise that point.

The United Kingdom is a secular state but a predominantly Christian country. I personally believe that religion has an important part to play in helping to build a just society and should be represented, but not control, the forming of legislation.

The Church of England, represented by the Lords Spiritual in the House of Lords, fulfils that purpose but it does not control legislation (except matter directly affecting the Church of England).

I'm not against reform of the current balance of Lords Spiritual to include other faiths but I think it would be a shame if absolutely no religious or spiritual input was part the legislative process. Most people still believe in some sort of God and it is right IMHO that this is reflected in the legislature.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

I have and you’re totally correct. In fact for every passage in the Koran that can be used to justify killing people there are probably 2 or more in the bible saying pretty much the same thing. Especially if taken out of context (and that applies to both books).

Miss quoting phrases from religious has been used throughout history to both inspire evil and condemn the other. It’s up to us, as decent civilised people, to stand up for what we know to be right and condemn what we know to be wrong or evil

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By *otlovefun42Couple over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

What I find quite amusing are the double standards of many of our "left leaning" friends.

On the one hand, A handful of Ukip members come out with a dodgy remark or two and the whole party are a bunch of racist, sexist, xenophobic, homophobic, bigots.

On the other hand. Thousands of Muslims are rampaging around the middle east (and Africa) shooting, blowing up, crucifying, and beheading people, among many other atrocities. Yet should anyone try to put one iota of blame in the direction of Islam they are shouted down by the very same people as islamophobic, racist, bigots.

Personally I don't blame every Muslim for the actions of ISIS. Boko Haram, Al Qaeda, and all the other nutters. However I do blame the vast majority of the Muslim leadership both in Britain and the rest of the world.

While a few (and it was only a few) did come out and condemn the nutters a few weeks ago, funnily enough it seemed to coincide with the publication of the Rotherham report, once again the silence is deafening.

It is time Islamic leaders took a long hard look at themselves (that is of course if they want to) and start to kick the hate preachers out of the mosques and schools, and at least make an effort to clean up the image of their religion.

It is now estimated that as many as 2000 British Jihadi's have travelled to Syria, and passive support for ISIS is a lot stronger among young British Muslims than anyone would dare to admit. These young people are being radicalised somewhere and they don't all (if any) get it from a few Youtube video's. So let's see the religious leaders come down hard on the radical preachers, then, and only then, will the world at large once again believe that Islam is a religion of peace.

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By *nleashedCrakenMan over a year ago

Widnes

I answered this UKIP thing in a thread on it yesterday.

While I don't agree with statements about 'our "left leaning" friends', which I'm definitely not one of, not the comment on 'Thousands of Muslims' because many people, both from the left and right, are saying the Muslim Community should do something about this themselves. And that's where I start to agree with the rest of what you say. Drop the top half and we've got a good reasoned argument.

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By *otlovefun42Couple over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"I answered this UKIP thing in a thread on it yesterday.

I read your posts on the other thread and although we would probably be on opposite sides in the EU argument I pretty much agree with most what you said.

However the shouting down of anyone critical of Islam and the insults to Ukip does come predominantly (although not exclusively) from the left side of the political spectrum.

Your other post and the fact that you say you are definitely not left leaning surely reinforces that.

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By *otlovefun42Couple over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

This is its reappearance in extreme Islamic form.

It's not extreme to Islam. It's actually the norm.

How is that then.

I think u'll find it was the Christians who have started most off the wars in modern history.

No to mention the fact that nazi's were Christian.

Or the Spanish inquisition- Christians killing Muslims n Jews.

And let's not forget the bloody crusades- yes Christians again.

Oh I nearly forgot first settlers in America, who nearly slaughtered the entire race of native Indians - the pilgrim fathers. Yes u guessed it Christians,

So I say to u Christians, what a bunch of fucking animal."

What nonsense. With the exception of the Spanish Inquisition (and even that was nearly 600 years ago) and while barbaric has to be seen in its historical context at a time when Spain had only just achieved the Reconquista, and driven the Muslim invaders out of Iberia. It was as much about politics as religion.

Hitler was no more a Christian than you are (or me)

As for the crusades maybe you should do a little reading on the subject before making sweeping statements.

With only a little research you would find that the 1st crusade (which in turn led to the 2nd and 3rd) was in answer to the Muslim conquests which began in the 7th century under the leadership of the prophet Mohammed. These conquests took pretty much all of the middle east, north Africa, and most of Iberia by FORCE. The crusades were in answer to the Muslim conquest of Jerusalem and the persecution of the eastern Christians. Admittedly it did turn into a bit of a land grab by the Franks (Antioch Etc.) but bottom line is the Muslims started it.

The early (Pilgrim Father) settlers got on quite well with most of the native Americans and apart from a few rogues who tried to take slaves and a few skirmishes with tribes who wanted to kick out the settlers trade was much more common than war. The genocide of the natives didn't really get going until the mid 1800's and was all about land grab and expansion west rather than Christianity. In fact with a little lateral thinking if you want to lay blame at the root of the calamity you could go back to Napoleon Bonaparte (the man who sold a continent)

But whatever has happened in the past two wrongs don't make a right.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The Qur'an as far as I know is the only holy book not to be revised to reflect changing culture??. So yes there's the same references in the old testament but don't the majority of Christians now use the new testament. I'm not sure but haven't the Jews also revised there holy book? Maybe it's time for Muslims to do the same

As for atheists being intolerant, well yeah look at the shit we have to put up with from all sides.

Religion has no part in a state, you should be free to worship if you choose but religion should stay out of schools and legislates. that's the one thing the founding fathers in America got right.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The tragedy of it is, I'm pretty sure the security services knew who this guy was before he went out and what he was upto and who was his radical preacher but as always they use lots of things for political intentions.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The communists also lost 45 million people fighting the Nazis so you could write this tonight.

The fact of the matter is it's a totalitarian religion none of us could be here tonight writing this in a Muslim county this website couldn't even exist.

It might be a religion of peace but certainly isn't a religion of freedoms.

I checked my Fab account the last time I was in Turkey. Even posted on the forums. Turkey is secular."

I know it is, thats my point, it's still classed as a Muslim country because Islam is the major religion. There's a long list of Muslim countries where you could post on the Fab forums.

You've undermined your own earlier argument.

You continually use a few examples to generalise 1.6 billion Muslims.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm an atheist there's no point quoting Christian wrong doing to me.

My point was at least I'm free to disagree and criticise Christian states, the same cannot be said for Muslim ones.

I'm agnostic, you are free to disagree and criticise Muslim states. That is what you're doing now on this thread. I just challenge that you insist on generalising. I am of the opinion that shows ignorance.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"for those of you quoting the Muslim holy book to prove a point... i'd be very careful, because if you have ever read passages of the old testament... it isn't exactly sweetness and light in there either......

the security services know who this guy is.... they just haven't named him publically......

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I have and you’re totally correct. In fact for every passage in the Koran that can be used to justify killing people there are probably 2 or more in the bible saying pretty much the same thing. Especially if taken out of context (and that applies to both books).

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

good and bad in all groupings.... celebrate & welcome the good.

deal with the bad

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By *otlovefun42Couple over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

So a secular country is a Muslim country? I think you should ask Santa for a dictionary this year.

Secular

Adjective

of or pertaining to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred; temporal:

not pertaining to or connected with religion (opposed to sacred ):

(of education, a school, etc.) concerned with nonreligious subjects.

(of members of the clergy) not belonging to a religious order; not bound by monastic vows (opposed to regular ).

Turkey is however an interesting example.

While the overwhelming majority are Muslim and the politics of the country are becoming more and more Islamic leaning, Turkey still has aspirations to one day join the EU. Any hint of internet censorship would put their cause back years and almost certainly stop the flow of EU transitional cash to their coffers. So in this case not a very good example to quote.

Saudi Arabia or Iran (remember the Youtube "happy" kids) would be much better examples.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A coward pure and simple would not face a man unarmed one to one !

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Isn't it about time both books were retitled "How to survive living in the middle east with no condoms, refrigeration, effective police force or antibiotics." Then people would know for sure how pointless they are.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Isn't it about time both books were retitled "How to survive living in the middle east with no condoms, refrigeration, effective police force or antibiotics." Then people would know for sure how pointless they are.

You'd be surprised. Some modern scholars now believe the old testament and qu'ranic prohibition against pork was due to the amount of diseases and parasites pigs tended to be infested with back then, and the talmudic idea of circumcision was more about preventing infection than anything else.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm an atheist there's no point quoting Christian wrong doing to me.

My point was at least I'm free to disagree and criticise Christian states, the same cannot be said for Muslim ones.

I'm a deist, I don't follow any religion, and think science holds all the answers for humanity.

Nonetheless I find some 'hardcore' atheists as hilarious, irrational, dogmatic and blinkered as some of the very worst religious people.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well I can't speak for all the 1.6 billion Muslims, same as I can't speak for every footballer, but I can and will make statements like a large minority of these people are fundamentally fucked up

A Muslim country in my mind is one run by the religious leaders.

So try going to Iran, Pakistan or Saudi Arabia and let me know how you get on criticising Islam or swinging.

Or just doing everyday stuff like... This 15 year old girl who's wrote into this Islamic question and answer website.. Have a read and see what you think mate.

http://islamqa.info/en/150604

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"What I find quite amusing are the double standards of many of our "left leaning" friends.

On the one hand, A handful of Ukip members come out with a dodgy remark or two and the whole party are a bunch of racist, sexist, xenophobic, homophobic, bigots.

Although I appreciate your reasoned argument I disagree with a fair amount of it and some of the assumptions you've made.

I do however completely agree with what I interpret to be your underlying point.

The answer to this is that moderate Muslims must step up and ridicule the extremists and their interpretation. Some do, but it doesn't get trumpeted enough by the media.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I wouldn't be surprised, it's obvious!

"Don't eat pork you'll get ill

Don't fuck about you'll get ill

Don't commit crime it's bad

Do wash regularly if not you'll get ill

if you don't do these things you'll go to hell!"

There that should do it.

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By *otlovefun42Couple over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

Of course. There are lots of teachings that were very relevant at the time.

I think I would have been very wary about eating Pork in 40 deg+ and no fridge. Only eating freshly killed meat was good sense for the same reason. Even wiping your arse with one hand and eating with the other (I forget which way around it is) was a good idea in a part of the world where running water was a scarce commodity.

But hey guys this is 2014. We've got fridges, freezers, knives and forks, hot and cold running water, soap, disinfectant, and dishwashers.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

http://islamqa.info/en/150604.

I can Google you a dozen other websites just like this one.

Read it you bunch of fake liberal lovers of freedom who don't like ukip because there "fascist".

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Well I can't speak for all the 1.6 billion Muslims, same as I can't speak for every footballer, but I can and will make statements like a large minority of these people are fundamentally fucked up

A Muslim country in my mind is one run by the religious leaders.

So try going to Iran, Pakistan or Saudi Arabia and let me know how you get on criticising Islam or swinging.

Or just doing everyday stuff like... This 15 year old girl who's wrote into this Islamic question and answer website.. Have a read and see what you think mate.

http://islamqa.info/en/150604"

But not all muslim-majority states are constitutionally islamic-as opposed to secular-Turkey, Albania, Bosnia, Kosovo, Syria, Indonesia, Iraq, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Kirghizstan, Turkmenistan, Tadjikistan and several others have secular constitutions. Also not all muslim-majority countries are in the middle east either.

And whether a country is constitutionally secular or not is of little consequence-the USA for example has a secular constitution but has one political party that is dominated by right-wing religious nutjobs-and the UK has a state church, but has a society that is overwhelmingly secular.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Well I can't speak for all the 1.6 billion Muslims, same as I can't speak for every footballer, but I can and will make statements like a large minority of these people are fundamentally fucked up

A Muslim country in my mind is one run by the religious leaders.

So try going to Iran, Pakistan or Saudi Arabia and let me know how you get on criticising Islam or swinging.

Or just doing everyday stuff like... This 15 year old girl who's wrote into this Islamic question and answer website.. Have a read and see what you think mate.

http://islamqa.info/en/150604

That's the whole point of a secular constitution though isn't it?. Even if religious nutjobs get in power they can't put their own religious beliefs on others.

Kosovo is a good example of a Muslim secular state.... It's only their because of the intervention of the united states and their nutjob leaders!

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By *rown_cock_edinMan over a year ago

edinburgh

Religion has no part in a state, you should be free to worship if you choose but religion should stay out of schools and legislates. that's the one thing the founding fathers in America got right.

yes but I doubt you'll see that in practive any more... try seeing if an atheist become president.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/14/keep-religion-out-politics

There are a few documentaries on the subject, it is now so engrained that you cannot break from it. There is a post in the thread that talks about places like Iran, Saudi etc. being run by religion/religious leaders. In a same fashion this is also true of the US, but because of current media mentality its not easily seen.

An example of this is internet censorship, Obama and Cameron will attack places like China for having censorship, but at the same some talk about 'protecting its citizens from harmful material'... mainly in the guise of extremism content. This is a slipperly slope when people cannot see the full picture to make an informed decision (and many cannot make an informed decision because of media bias anyway).

Wars dont show who is right, only who is left.

Many actions of british bombers in the world war would by todays standards be called war crimes... but we would not seek justice on behalf of familes of german civilians because we did it to 'protect the nation and for the greater good'.

Western politicions should be help accountable for their forgein policy towards Africa, China, middle and far east. History has shown how these parts of the world have an ravaged by injustice and exploitism. Respect cannot be forced it has to be earned and both parties need to give it in equal measure.

Why do we need to build and supply as many weapons as we do today.. that only serve to destablise parts of the world and cause more suffering.

I need to find the link but there was a republican said "the US was God chosen nation, and with Gods help the US will smite all its enemies"... that not far off from what people would say of some 'fundamentalist'... Religion should be a personal choice, not a political weapon.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Well I can't speak for all the 1.6 billion Muslims, same as I can't speak for every footballer, but I can and will make statements like a large minority of these people are fundamentally fucked up

A Muslim country in my mind is one run by the religious leaders.

So try going to Iran, Pakistan or Saudi Arabia and let me know how you get on criticising Islam or swinging.

Or just doing everyday stuff like... This 15 year old girl who's wrote into this Islamic question and answer website.. Have a read and see what you think mate.

http://islamqa.info/en/150604"

"We are a Christian country and we should not be afraid to say so," - David Cameron.

We all understand and know what secular means, the UK is secular. It's still classed as a Christian country though.

Try walking down the road in some parts of Texas USA and criticising Christianity and the church. There are still places in America where a mixed race couple would have problems walking hand in hand through the streets, interracial marriage was still banned in parts of the USA at the beginning of the new millennium! Does that represent Christianity as a religion? No! It just means that some people have an extreme _iew of their religion.

I am no apologist for extreme regimes that happen to have Muslim majorities. I vehemently argue against many of their actions and beliefs. I do however have no time for the ignorance that puts 1.6 billion Muslims into the same bracket.

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By *teveanddebsCouple over a year ago

Norwich

I think judging him should be left to his god.

Let's hope someone arranges the meeting soon.

To paraphrase Stormin Norman

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Of which you rarely hear a fucking word of praise for it from any mad mullahs.

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By *otlovefun42Couple over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"What I find quite amusing are the double standards of many of our "left leaning" friends.

On the one hand, A handful of Ukip members come out with a dodgy remark or two and the whole party are a bunch of racist, sexist, xenophobic, homophobic, bigots.

Although I appreciate your reasoned argument I disagree with a fair amount of it and some of the assumptions you've made.

I do however completely agree with what I interpret to be your underlying point.

The answer to this is that moderate Muslims must step up and ridicule the extremists and their interpretation. Some do, but it doesn't get trumpeted enough by the media. "

I wouldn't blame the media. I'm sure that if the story was out there the BBC and Sky would be shouting it from the rooftops. It isn't so they don't.

Some of my assumptions? Hmm. I had to read my own post again to try to find them. Maybe it was that I accused many of our "left leaning friends"? Nope I would take that as fact. Or that there are "thousands of Muslims rampaging around the middle east" Nope ISIS are widely accepted to have around 30'000 fighters and I think rampaging is a fair description. Maybe the "estimate of 2000 British Jihadi's fighting in Syria" Not my estimate so cannot be my assumption. Or could it be "passive support for ISIS by young British Muslims"? On that one possibly, but if it is only equal to the number (as is almost certain) that have gone to Syria then I would find that very scary.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"http://islamqa.info/en/150604.

I can Google you a dozen other websites just like this one.

Read it you bunch of fake liberal lovers of freedom who don't like ukip because there "fascist"."

Name calling and deflection, you seem to have run out of reasoned argument.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"http://islamqa.info/en/150604.

I can Google you a dozen other websites just like this one.

Read it you bunch of fake liberal lovers of freedom who don't like ukip because there "fascist"."

Page not found.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"http://islamqa.info/en/150604.

I can Google you a dozen other websites just like this one.

Read it you bunch of fake liberal lovers of freedom who don't like ukip because there "fascist".

Name calling and deflection, you seem to have run out of reasoned argument. "
.Nah run out of patience maybe!.

By the way I wouldn't disagree with your argument that there's a large minority of Christian nujobs in the US that would also love to persecute the free!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Religion has no part in a state, you should be free to worship if you choose but religion should stay out of schools and legislates. that's the one thing the founding fathers in America got right.

yes but I doubt you'll see that in practive any more... try seeing if an atheist become president

Never mind atheists, try and see a muslim, hindu, jew or anyone else who isn't a christian get elected to the presidency.

Massively ironic when you bear in mind many of the founding fathers were forward-thinking, modernising, tolerant deists and free-thinkers.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Religion has no part in a state, you should be free to worship if you choose but religion should stay out of schools and legislates. that's the one thing the founding fathers in America got right.

yes but I doubt you'll see that in practive any more... try seeing if an atheist become president

Never mind atheists, try and see a muslim, hindu, jew or anyone else who isn't a christian get elected to the presidency.

Massively ironic when you bear in mind many of the founding fathers were forward-thinking, modernising, tolerant deists and free-thinkers."
.

Didn't the Mormon run last time!

There not really Christians.

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By *rown_cock_edinMan over a year ago

edinburgh

Religion has no part in a state, you should be free to worship if you choose but religion should stay out of schools and legislates. that's the one thing the founding fathers in America got right.

yes but I doubt you'll see that in practive any more... try seeing if an atheist become president

Never mind atheists, try and see a muslim, hindu, jew or anyone else who isn't a christian get elected to the presidency.

Massively ironic when you bear in mind many of the founding fathers were forward-thinking, modernising, tolerant deists and free-thinkers."

Yeah thanks for expanding that... I was rushed typing but you know what I meant

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Religion has no part in a state, you should be free to worship if you choose but religion should stay out of schools and legislates. that's the one thing the founding fathers in America got right.

yes but I doubt you'll see that in practive any more... try seeing if an atheist become president

Never mind atheists, try and see a muslim, hindu, jew or anyone else who isn't a christian get elected to the presidency.

Massively ironic when you bear in mind many of the founding fathers were forward-thinking, modernising, tolerant deists and free-thinkers..

Didn't the Mormon run last time!

There not really Christians."

He didn't get elected though...which is the point.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Religion has no part in a state, you should be free to worship if you choose but religion should stay out of schools and legislates. that's the one thing the founding fathers in America got right.

yes but I doubt you'll see that in practive any more... try seeing if an atheist become president

Never mind atheists, try and see a muslim, hindu, jew or anyone else who isn't a christian get elected to the presidency.

Massively ironic when you bear in mind many of the founding fathers were forward-thinking, modernising, tolerant deists and free-thinkers."
.

I'm no expert on it, but wasn't Jefferson and franklin religious nutjobs?

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By *rown_cock_edinMan over a year ago

edinburgh

Religion has no part in a state, you should be free to worship if you choose but religion should stay out of schools and legislates. that's the one thing the founding fathers in America got right.

yes but I doubt you'll see that in practive any more... try seeing if an atheist become president

Never mind atheists, try and see a muslim, hindu, jew or anyone else who isn't a christian get elected to the presidency.

Massively ironic when you bear in mind many of the founding fathers were forward-thinking, modernising, tolerant deists and free-thinkers..

Didn't the Mormon run last time!

There not really Christians."

Mitt Romney... ran, not President.

You should read the various articles on why being a mormon killed his chances everything else being equal. Being Mormon would have cost him.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Religion has no part in a state, you should be free to worship if you choose but religion should stay out of schools and legislates. that's the one thing the founding fathers in America got right.

yes but I doubt you'll see that in practive any more... try seeing if an atheist become president

Never mind atheists, try and see a muslim, hindu, jew or anyone else who isn't a christian get elected to the presidency.

Massively ironic when you bear in mind many of the founding fathers were forward-thinking, modernising, tolerant deists and free-thinkers..

I'm no expert on it, but wasn't Jefferson and franklin religious nutjobs?

Nope. Franklin was most definitely a deist, as was Thomas Paine, Alexander Hamilton and Jefferson, and I think Washington too.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Religion has no part in a state, you should be free to worship if you choose but religion should stay out of schools and legislates. that's the one thing the founding fathers in America got right.

yes but I doubt you'll see that in practive any more... try seeing if an atheist become president

Never mind atheists, try and see a muslim, hindu, jew or anyone else who isn't a christian get elected to the presidency.

Massively ironic when you bear in mind many of the founding fathers were forward-thinking, modernising, tolerant deists and free-thinkers..

Didn't the Mormon run last time!

There not really Christians.

Mitt Romney... ran, not President.

You should read the various articles on why being a mormon killed his chances everything else being equal. Being Mormon would have cost him."
.

That's him, I didn't like him as

1 he's wealthy

2 he's a religious nutjobs

3 he's American

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Religion has no part in a state, you should be free to worship if you choose but religion should stay out of schools and legislates. that's the one thing the founding fathers in America got right.

yes but I doubt you'll see that in practive any more... try seeing if an atheist become president

Never mind atheists, try and see a muslim, hindu, jew or anyone else who isn't a christian get elected to the presidency.

Massively ironic when you bear in mind many of the founding fathers were forward-thinking, modernising, tolerant deists and free-thinkers..

I'm no expert on it, but wasn't Jefferson and franklin religious nutjobs?

Nope. Franklin was most definitely a deist, as was Thomas Paine, Alexander Hamilton and Jefferson, and I think Washington too."
.

Yay go founding fathers then!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Religion has no part in a state, you should be free to worship if you choose but religion should stay out of schools and legislates. that's the one thing the founding fathers in America got right.

yes but I doubt you'll see that in practive any more... try seeing if an atheist become president

Never mind atheists, try and see a muslim, hindu, jew or anyone else who isn't a christian get elected to the presidency.

Massively ironic when you bear in mind many of the founding fathers were forward-thinking, modernising, tolerant deists and free-thinkers..

I'm no expert on it, but wasn't Jefferson and franklin religious nutjobs?

Nope. Franklin was most definitely a deist, as was Thomas Paine, Alexander Hamilton and Jefferson, and I think Washington too."

In fact, Franklin and Paine were amongst the foremost champions of the enlightenment and deism, along with Voltaire and Hume, at the time.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Religion has no part in a state, you should be free to worship if you choose but religion should stay out of schools and legislates. that's the one thing the founding fathers in America got right.

yes but I doubt you'll see that in practive any more... try seeing if an atheist become president

Never mind atheists, try and see a muslim, hindu, jew or anyone else who isn't a christian get elected to the presidency.

Massively ironic when you bear in mind many of the founding fathers were forward-thinking, modernising, tolerant deists and free-thinkers..

I'm no expert on it, but wasn't Jefferson and franklin religious nutjobs?

Nope. Franklin was most definitely a deist, as was Thomas Paine, Alexander Hamilton and Jefferson, and I think Washington too.

In fact, Franklin and Paine were amongst the foremost champions of the enlightenment and deism, along with Voltaire and Hume, at the time."
aha...

Hence the illuminati membership

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"http://islamqa.info/en/150604.

I can Google you a dozen other websites just like this one.

Read it you bunch of fake liberal lovers of freedom who don't like ukip because there "fascist".

Name calling and deflection, you seem to have run out of reasoned argument. .Nah run out of patience maybe!.

By the way I wouldn't disagree with your argument that there's a large minority of Christian nujobs in the US that would also love to persecute the free!"

That is why my issue is with extremists and not with Christianity or Islam. I agree with many of your concerns surrounding Saudi Arabia who I personally _iew as being led by extremists. They though are one of our closest allies in the region! It's a mess.

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By *lacksausageMan over a year ago

Birmingham Airport

Freedom fighter, terrorist, president, prime minister, soldier, thief, killer, murderer, martyr, rebel, jihadist, liberator, warlord.

Depending on which side of the oceans you call home, the above tags could perfectly describe one and the same person.

Syria, Afghanistan, Libya, Kosovo, old Germany, Zimbabwe, tiny U.K. Blair, George USA bush, Vladimir Russia Putin, Georgia, nelson South Africa Mandela, Kashmir, Palestine v Israel, Osama Barack Ladin, etc.

No permanent friends!

Just permanent interests!!

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By *rown_cock_edinMan over a year ago

edinburgh

"Freedom fighter, terrorist, president, prime minister, soldier, thief, killer, murderer, martyr, rebel, jihadist, liberator, warlord.

Depending on which side of the oceans you call home, the above tags could perfectly describe one and the same person.

No permanent friends!

Just permanent interests!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"http://islamqa.info/en/150604.

I can Google you a dozen other websites just like this one.

Read it you bunch of fake liberal lovers of freedom who don't like ukip because there "fascist".

Name calling and deflection, you seem to have run out of reasoned argument. .Nah run out of patience maybe!.

By the way I wouldn't disagree with your argument that there's a large minority of Christian nujobs in the US that would also love to persecute the free!

Yep and my opinion is most 'Muslim'counties are kept deliberately in the dark as it clearly is in both of the higher sides interest that people have utter faith in the Qur'an.

Let's face facts if you were a religious leader trying to promote your religion, it's dammed easier to do it on the less educated and least wealthy. I mean obviously they've looked to the older Christian religion and seen massive drop off of numbers as people become more educated and wealthy, I would say you only have to look at most Muslims immigrants and their children and grandchildren as a rule of thumb are less religious than they were.

It's why I said in the beginning that Muslims really need to take a look at what's happening in their own religion and stamp this, although minority, sizeable amount of people that take the Qur'an as gospel. And maybe it's time for a "new" Qur'an with the 1500 years old nasty stuff removed.

Of course that idea is never going to be pushed by the imams as this would be the beginning of the loss of control and in the end that's what all religions are about

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Apart from the fact christianity is expanding in numbers rather than declining. It might be declining in (western) Europe and to a lesser extent America but its massively expanding in Africa and China. Islam might be the world's fastest growing religion but Christianity far outstrips it in numbers.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Apart from the fact christianity is expanding in numbers rather than declining. It might be declining in (western) Europe and to a lesser extent America but its massively expanding in Africa and China. Islam might be the world's fastest growing religion but Christianity far outstrips it in numbers."
.

All businesses have to find new markets once there original one has declined.

It's the capitalist way

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Did you know that in a recent survey 80% of swedes declared themselves as atheist including 2 of their recent heads of state

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Did you know that in a recent survey 80% of swedes declared themselves as atheist including 2 of their recent heads of state

Heads of Government you mean; i.e. The Prime Minister.

The Head of State of Sweden is the King, who according to the constitution has to be a member of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Sweden.

And I was aware of those statistics, however 'irreligious' or 'non-religious' would be the better descriptor rather than 'atheist'.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"What I find quite amusing are the double standards of many of our "left leaning" friends.

On the one hand, A handful of Ukip members come out with a dodgy remark or two and the whole party are a bunch of racist, sexist, xenophobic, homophobic, bigots.

Although I appreciate your reasoned argument I disagree with a fair amount of it and some of the assumptions you've made.

I do however completely agree with what I interpret to be your underlying point.

The answer to this is that moderate Muslims must step up and ridicule the extremists and their interpretation. Some do, but it doesn't get trumpeted enough by the media.

I wouldn't blame the media. I'm sure that if the story was out there the BBC and Sky would be shouting it from the rooftops. It isn't so they don't.

Have you forgotten why many of these British 'jihadists' went to fight in Syria? The same reason Cameron proposed a motion for war and was voted down by parliament. Assad had allegedly used chemical weapons on his own people. If Cameron had succeeded British troops would be fighting in Syria today on the side of the rebels who have now morped into ISIS.

It is widely accepted that we along with the Americans and some others have armed the rebels who became ISIS. We didn't care about these groups until they threatened our agenda.

Having armed them we're now faced with the embarrassment of working in part with Syria to get rid of them!

Many of these British 'jihadists' believed they had a just cause and were fighting on the side of moderate Muslims, the UK and the US.

It's more complex than 'Muslims rampaging around the middle east'. I stand by my opinion that you've made a number of assumptions.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Did you know that in a recent survey 80% of swedes declared themselves as atheist including 2 of their recent heads of state

Heads of Government you mean; i.e. The Prime Minister.

The Head of State of Sweden is the King, who according to the constitution has to be a member of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Sweden.

And I was aware of those statistics, however 'irreligious' or 'non-religious' would be the better descriptor rather than 'atheist'."
.

No they were asked if they believed in God. They said no, that's an atheist.

A non religious or agnostic would be someone who believe we don't know or can't know because we don't have enough knowledge.

And yes I meant heads of government