FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Will UKIP change the face of British politics in the long term?
Will UKIP change the face of British politics in the long term?
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"They certainly seem to have put the wind up both the Conservative and Labour parties. It looks as though the Tories will have to get off the fence and move more towards the right to negate some of the UKIP support. Cameron needs to grow some balls and show he is a leader. Labour seems like a rudderless ship. Party of the people, but I remember PM Brown and his comments on the 'bigoted woman', Miliband not making eye contact with a beggar whilst given 2p, and now Emily Thornberry looking down on White Van Man. As professional politicians, they seem to have moved from grass roots. Thankfully, the Liberals seem dead in the water. Are the bi-elections an indicator of future change or just a protest vote? " I think it is a protest vote, but it could gather momentum. I think a lot of people lost respect for the main parties over the Scottish independence vote. | |||
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"Yes, they already have. Next! "But will they become the countries 3rd main party going forward? Or are they just a flash in the pan? If the government got immigration sorted and offered a referendum on EU membership, would it negate UKIPs main 'policies' and see them disappear? | |||
"Yes, they already have. Next!
But will they become the countries 3rd main party going forward? Or are they just a flash in the pan?
If the government got immigration sorted and offered a referendum on EU membership, would it negate UKIPs main 'policies' and see them disappear?"We could do with a clear out, they have taken it for granted that they can lie to us and hope we forget about what they promised. Lib dems are finished, wonder if the remainder of there mps will defect. | |||
"If the government got immigration sorted and offered a referendum on EU membership, would it negate UKIPs main 'policies' and see them disappear?" UKIP's main aim has to be to stop that referendum, whichever way it goes would spell the end of UKIP. Thankfully Mr Cameron has worded it in such a way that there are many ways he can do a U Turn on the offer, so all UKIP has to do is open up one of the escape clauses... Cynical? me... surely not  | |||
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"Where's sit, watching and smiling man?" Farage? he's in a pub in Rochester  | |||
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"They certainly seem to have put the wind up both the Conservative and Labour parties. It looks as though the Tories will have to get off the fence and move more towards the right to negate some of the UKIP support. Cameron needs to grow some balls and show he is a leader. Labour seems like a rudderless ship. Party of the people, but I remember PM Brown and his comments on the 'bigoted woman', Miliband not making eye contact with a beggar whilst given 2p, and now Emily Thornberry looking down on White Van Man. As professional politicians, they seem to have moved from grass roots. Thankfully, the Liberals seem dead in the water. Are the bi-elections an indicator of future change or just a protest vote? " Protest vote  | |||
"People have lost faith in the government and also the main parties. This country is a mess because of them and people are fed up with hearing the same thing all the time, broken promises " Spot on scouse, time for a change. if they get us out of Europe, agree personnel trade deals with countries where we dont have to give money to the Eu for it then sort out a fair points system then maybe we can go back to supporting red or blue who both seem not to care about us anymore | |||
"People have lost faith in the government and also the main parties. This country is a mess because of them and people are fed up with hearing the same thing all the time, broken promises Spot on scouse, time for a change. if they get us out of Europe, agree personnel trade deals with countries where we dont have to give money to the Eu for it then sort out a fair points system then maybe we can go back to supporting red or blue who both seem not to care about us anymore" The government haven't cared about us for years | |||
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"Yes, they already have. Next! " | |||
"They certainly seem to have put the wind up both the Conservative and Labour parties. It looks as though the Tories will have to get off the fence and move more towards the right to negate some of the UKIP support. Cameron needs to grow some balls and show he is a leader. Labour seems like a rudderless ship. Party of the people, but I remember PM Brown and his comments on the 'bigoted woman', Miliband not making eye contact with a beggar whilst given 2p, and now Emily Thornberry looking down on White Van Man. As professional politicians, they seem to have moved from grass roots. Thankfully, the Liberals seem dead in the water. Are the bi-elections an indicator of future change or just a protest vote? " I think in answer to your header, YES. Even if it is only by the reaction of the other parties as you have described in your post. Plus, I hope, they will also change it, by people voting more.. shouting more... and taking more interest in who leads them (us), and not just feeling like 'protest voting' is their/our only option!! | |||
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"People have lost faith in the government and also the main parties. This country is a mess because of them and people are fed up with hearing the same thing all the time, broken promises " So they elect two former Conservatives? | |||
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"They already have done. The 2 1/2 main parties are quaking in their boots Sits, watches and the smile gets broader by the day" Want to take a bet with me.... They won't win 10 seats in the next parliament In fact I am willing to bet the snp will win more seats in Scotland than ukip will in the rest of the uk | |||
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"They already have done. The 2 1/2 main parties are quaking in their boots Sits, watches and the smile gets broader by the day Want to take a bet with me.... They won't win 10 seats in the next parliament In fact I am willing to bet the snp will win more seats in Scotland than ukip will in the rest of the uk" Fabio we already have a bet remember Sits watches and smiles | |||
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"I'm still extremely curious about just how different ukip are? Millionaires, tories, bigots, shovelling as much cash their way via exoenses - even when they hadn't anything paid out. Is it just that they're clueless about how to run the country, or is that more of the same old? There's no manifesto and the one they did publish they're now refusing to show. We know they'd get us out of Europe, but the rest seems to be fairy dust." If you are going to mention expenses, don't forget the labour party as well. See below It was announced on 5 February 2010 that criminal charges would be prosecuted against Labour MPs Elliot Morley, David Chaytor and Jim Devine, and Conservative peer Lord Hanningfield in relation to false accounting.[14] On 11 March all four announced they would plead not guilty to charges of false accounting, however they were all later jailed.[15] Potential cases against other unnamed MPs and Lords are still being considered by the police and the Crown Prosecution Service as of December 2010. The Crown Prosecution Service announced on 19 May 2010 that Labour MP Eric Illsley would be charged with three counts of false accounting; he was also suspended from the Labour Party. Lord Taylor of Warwick, a Conservative peer, had also been charged with six counts of false accounting. On 13 October 2010 it was announced that former Labour MP Margaret Moran would also be charged with false accounting, while on 14 October 2010 former Minister of State for Europe and Labour MP Denis MacShane was referred to the Police following a complaint from the British National Party, as a consequence of which he was also jailed. Three Labour Peers were suspended on 18 October 2010 due to their expenses claims: Lord Bhatia was suspended from the House of Lords for eight months and told to repay £27,446; Lord Paul suspended from the House of Lords for four months and ordered to pay back £41,982 and Baroness Uddin faces a police investigation for alleged fraud for claiming at least £180,000 in expenses by designating an empty flat, and previously an allegedly nonexistent property as her main residence. She was suspended from the House of Lords until the end of 2012 and required to repay £125,349. | |||
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"I feel a bit ashamed to be British today - a country where racism, xenophobia, bigotry, intolerance and narrow self-interest seems to be flourishing." What a load of tosh. | |||
"I feel a bit ashamed to be British today - a country where racism, xenophobia, bigotry, intolerance and narrow self-interest seems to be flourishing." Conservatives and the Labour party have been showing us what narrow self interest is. | |||
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"thanks for that informed and well-considered response" You are the one calling everyone racist because they are sick of the self serving ponces we have in government now. | |||
"I feel a bit ashamed to be British today - a country where racism, xenophobia, bigotry, intolerance and narrow self-interest seems to be flourishing." Why its what the voters want that's why UKIP are winning votes as the others don't listen or are to politically correct ! | |||
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"thanks for that informed and well-considered response You are the one calling everyone racist because they are sick of the self serving ponces we have in government now. " no denying that ukip is guilty of xenophbia though | |||
"so racism, bigotry and intolerance are OK because they're want the voters want? Be careful of what you wish for." We have a democracy and its what the majority of voters want at a by election. UKIP will never govern but you need parties like them to make the others listen to the voters concerns | |||
"thanks for that informed and well-considered response You are the one calling everyone racist because they are sick of the self serving ponces we have in government now. no denying that ukip is guilty of xenophbia though" Why | |||
"UKIP will never govern but you need parties like them to make the others listen to the voters concerns " That's what they said about the Nazi party in 1930's Germany... | |||
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"thanks for that informed and well-considered response You are the one calling everyone racist because they are sick of the self serving ponces we have in government now. no denying that ukip is guilty of xenophbia though Why" because they have an intense fear/dislike of people from other countries (sorry for the delete above .... i had forgoten to reference to your question by failing to include your quote) | |||
" UKIP will never govern but you need parties like them to make the others listen to the voters concerns That's what they said about the Nazi party in 1930's Germany..." So you are saying ukip are Nazis now. | |||
"I would add to my earlier post that I also think that there will be a lot more tactical voting at the next election that could play into Ukip's hands. In Tory (supposedly) safe seats I think a lot of Labour voters will go to Ukip just to try and defeat the Tory, and vice versa in some Labour seats. Only one thing is certain. This will be the most interesting general election for decades. " | |||
" UKIP will never govern but you need parties like them to make the others listen to the voters concerns That's what they said about the Nazi party in 1930's Germany..." Now you are clutching at straws | |||
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"thanks for that informed and well-considered response You are the one calling everyone racist because they are sick of the self serving ponces we have in government now. no denying that ukip is guilty of xenophbia though Why because they have an intense fear/dislike of people from other countries (sorry for the delete above .... i had forgoten to reference to your question by failing to include your quote)" I don't think its a dislike , our country cannot keep letting people in we are on a island that is already overpopulated | |||
" UKIP will never govern but you need parties like them to make the others listen to the voters concerns That's what they said about the Nazi party in 1930's Germany... Now you are clutching at straws " to be fair if a political party is self confessed to stand for nationalism and at the same time claim to represent the working classes with psuedo-socialist policies then folks are entitled to draw parallels with the nationalist socialist german workers party that existed in the first half of last century | |||
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" our country cannot keep letting people in we are on a island that is already overpopulated " this defines the word xenophobia | |||
" our country cannot keep letting people in we are on a island that is already overpopulated this defines the word xenophobia" now i know you are talking bollocks its not a fear its practical our infrastructure cannot cope with the influx of endless thousands . and you call it Xenophobia no its facts | |||
" our country cannot keep letting people in we are on a island that is already overpopulated this defines the word xenophobia now i know you are talking bollocks its not a fear its practical our infrastructure cannot cope with the influx of endless thousands . and you call it Xenophobia no its facts "fear/dislike ..... you are vocal about your dislike of foreigners for what ever reason ... ergo xenophobia | |||
" our country cannot keep letting people in we are on a island that is already overpopulated this defines the word xenophobia now i know you are talking bollocks its not a fear its practical our infrastructure cannot cope with the influx of endless thousands . and you call it Xenophobia no its facts
fear/dislike ..... you are vocal about your dislike of foreigners for what ever reason ... ergo xenophobia "I don't know where you get that from I have many friends from all over the world . Please don't tar everyone of being a racist because we don't have the same _iews as you. | |||
" our country cannot keep letting people in we are on a island that is already overpopulated this defines the word xenophobia now i know you are talking bollocks its not a fear its practical our infrastructure cannot cope with the influx of endless thousands . and you call it Xenophobia no its facts
fear/dislike ..... you are vocal about your dislike of foreigners for what ever reason ... ergo xenophobia
I don't know where you get that from I have many friends from all over the world .
Please don't tar everyone of being a racist because we don't have the same _iews as you. "i haven't called you a racist nor will i call you a racist (i don't even know you) ..... however, i stated that ukip are guilty of xenophobia and the _iews held by ukippers on foreigners being in this country defines xenophobia | |||
" our country cannot keep letting people in we are on a island that is already overpopulated this defines the word xenophobia now i know you are talking bollocks its not a fear its practical our infrastructure cannot cope with the influx of endless thousands . and you call it Xenophobia no its facts
fear/dislike ..... you are vocal about your dislike of foreigners for what ever reason ... ergo xenophobia
I don't know where you get that from I have many friends from all over the world .
Please don't tar everyone of being a racist because we don't have the same _iews as you.
i haven't called you a racist nor will i call you a racist (i don't even know you) ..... however, i stated that ukip are guilty of xenophobia and the _iews held by ukippers on foreigners being in this country defines xenophobia "In your opinion. We will probably always disagree on this So have a good weekend | |||
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"I think the only way we will get anything different in politics is with a complete change of the political system. I said politics is dead earlier - I meant in its current form. If we can only get 35% of the people out to vote then how representative is the narrow slice of voters who voted Liberal or Conservative at the last election? "how representative is the narrow slice of voters who voted for any of those who stood for election regardless of political persuasion? | |||
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"I was watching coverage on BBC's This Week last night and got really irritated by something Iain Duncan-Smith said. His comment was along the lines of 'it's only a bi-election' and, I don't know about anyone else, but as a voter, I find such comments really insulting. Why? Well, because he is effectively saying that such elections are unimportant and that the result doesn't matter because people vote differently in general elections anyway. What he means by that - in my _iew - is that he really doesn't give a monkeys about the concerns of the electorate. Sorry matey, but I don't do tactical voting. I vote for the candidate that I want to represent me and my _iews in parliament - end of!! If I want to vote for UKIP, it will be because I believe in their policies and not as some protest against the 'main' parties. (Incidentally, I'm simply stating this as an example. I do not live in the Rochester & Strood area so was not eligible to cast a vote yesterday. Also, I am not actually stating that I would or would not vote for UKIP) Perhaps this is why so many people simply can't be bothered to vote anymore - because of the attitudes of politicians like this moron. Perhaps this also explains why UKIP are doing so well - because they are the only party who actually seem to be in touch with the electorate, but more to the point, are the only party that appears to be LISTENING!!! Mind you, I did have a bloody good laugh at the own goal scored by Labour yesterday with the tweeting of the 'image of Rochester' by the Shadow Attourney General. Was also a bit pissed off when the Labour guest on 'This Week' was asked to comment, after the result, on how bad a result it had been for Labour, and he just couldn't resist having a pop at David Cameron. I couldn't help thinking, yes, maybe the Tory's have done badly, but you've done even worse. He was clearly trying to spin his way out of an embarrassing position, but why can't they just admit defeat and say 'Yep, it's pretty bad'" Because its bash the other parties at all cost not listen to the voters ! | |||
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"I think the only way we will get anything different in politics is with a complete change of the political system. I said politics is dead earlier - I meant in its current form. If we can only get 35% of the people out to vote then how representative is the narrow slice of voters who voted Liberal or Conservative at the last election?
I agree - I'm not for one party or the other - I find them all shallow and untrustworthy. Gone are the days when politicians took a stance based on beliefs. Now they have focus groups and scrap over the middle ground. Ultimately there is no choice - we're all voting for the same old shit to continue and whoever gets in power next May will do exactly the same. Fundamental change is needed to change our perceptions of politics. I live in an area where Labour always win by a massive majority so I have no say one way or the other.
how representative is the narrow slice of voters who voted for any of those who stood for election regardless of political persuasion?" | |||
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"OK, fair enough. What's going to happen to welfare benefits and the NHS when the Spanish send all the British OAP's living on the Costas back to where they came from?" British OAPs living in Spain still collect a UK pension and healthcare costs are cross-charged to the NHS by the Spanish health system. The majority of OAPs living in Spain are home owners and boost the Spanish economy with their purchases of decorative spoons and tinned prunes. | |||
"UKIP now have 2 new MP's so that's 2 new faces in Westminster. I think it will be a hung parliament. " mark reckless is not a new face | |||
"UKIP now have 2 new MP's so that's 2 new faces in Westminster. I think it will be a hung parliament. mark reckless is not a new face" Yeah, but he is two faced. Point taken...one new face | |||
"UKIP now have 2 new MP's so that's 2 new faces in Westminster. I think it will be a hung parliament. mark reckless is not a new face Yeah, but he is two faced. Point taken...one new face "carswell isn't a new face either ..... neither of them are new faces .... they are both defected tory mps | |||
"OK, fair enough. What's going to happen to welfare benefits and the NHS when the Spanish send all the British OAP's living on the Costas back to where they came from?" How will this affect benefits? Aren't they already receiving state pensions from Britain? I'd argue we would be better off. Most on a pension living abroad have a few bob. This would see money coming back into Britain, not being spent abroad. Can only benefit our economy then, surely? I think a lot of Brits resent the suggestion that immigration is necessarily good for the economy because there is an inference that somehow immigrants are harder working and/or more skilled than Brits. Perhaps greater investment in people already living in Britain would benefit us all, rather than having people from, for example, Eastern Europe coming over here - often, I suspect, to be used badly by companies for short term profit rather than them having to make a long term investment that would benefit all of us already residing in Britain. Or do you suggest there are jobs British people cannot, or will not, do? | |||
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"yes, but if this island is already "overcrowded" will there be room for them?" I didn't say it was overcrowded | |||
"OK, fair enough. What's going to happen to welfare benefits and the NHS when the Spanish send all the British OAP's living on the Costas back to where they came from?" They come back here now for their medical treatment, plus the Spanish get their pensions. | |||
"yes, but if this island is already "overcrowded" will there be room for them?" You are clutching at straws to try and label other voters who you dont agree with. | |||
"OK, fair enough. What's going to happen to welfare benefits and the NHS when the Spanish send all the British OAP's living on the Costas back to where they came from? They come back here now for their medical treatment, plus the Spanish get their pensions." So, we would be better off if they lived here | |||
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"thanks for that informed and well-considered response You are the one calling everyone racist because they are sick of the self serving ponces we have in government now. " UKIP just had two self serving pounces re-elected. How is UKIP different? They are just conservatives wearing a different coat. | |||
"OK, fair enough. What's going to happen to welfare benefits and the NHS when the Spanish send all the British OAP's living on the Costas back to where they came from?" You are right. Very typically the Brirish sense of self superiority means that we will never accept limitations placed in us but demand limitations placed on others. UKIP should have been left alone to play the anti immigrant and anti EU game. It is cringeworthy watching the Conservatives and Labour trying to conjour up a serious immigration policy in order to battle the nationalist Neanderthals. | |||
"Saw Question Time briefly last night. Heard the often quoted assertion that the NHS couldn't run without immigrants. Have never understood that idea. Any of the pro-immigration crowd care to enlighten me as it is so often said?" Go into a hospital. Open your eyes and talk to Nurses, Doctors and support staff. Then you will understand. | |||
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"Saw Question Time briefly last night. Heard the often quoted assertion that the NHS couldn't run without immigrants. Have never understood that idea. Any of the pro-immigration crowd care to enlighten me as it is so often said? Go into a hospital. Open your eyes and talk to Nurses, Doctors and support staff. Then you will understand." Have done. Was told by a Junior Doctor people she graduated with couldn't get jobs within the NHS. What have you been told? | |||
"Saw Question Time briefly last night. Heard the often quoted assertion that the NHS couldn't run without immigrants. Have never understood that idea. Any of the pro-immigration crowd care to enlighten me as it is so often said? Go into a hospital. Open your eyes and talk to Nurses, Doctors and support staff. Then you will understand." That's if you can find a nurse, Doctors or support staff who actually work directly for the NHS. The majority of hospital services are now provided by non-NHS subcontractors – everything from cleaners, catering, maintenance etc up to nurses, GPs, surgeons etc. As an example, in 1983, St Thomas’s Hosp in London ran on 92% NHS contracted staff across the whole hospital. In 2013, only 16% remained entirely NHS (figures from The Lancet). These private companies don’t have to follow the NHS pay band system and on average, pay their staff 20% less. Lower-level workers are on minimum wage and most are on zero hours contracts that a British citizen with a family just couldn’t afford to do, so they employ immigrants. The higher-levels are directly recruited by companies like Circle Healthcare, Bupa, Virgin Care and Care UK from mainland Europe, and offered a wage 20% less than they would have with the NHS, but provide them with transfer fees and qualification conversions if they contract to the company for a certain period of time. There is a lot more to this, but I can’t currently be arsed. | |||
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"You gotta love it when someone has an opinion on immigration, all the "nazi, xenophobe and historical parallels" type words appear, one simply can't have an opinion that doesn't involve open door policy, without some sort of branding these days." I believe I was the first to use the word xenophobe, I also believe that if you read my post I said that UKIP could be very dangerous because they are appealing to xenophobic and selfish self interest to gain power. I did not mention the NAZI parallels but seeing as you have I will point out that when Hitler first gained power the German establishment congratulated themselves on hiring the 'little corporal' because they believed that they were still in control. As I said I find it very frightening that such an ultra right wing group can appeal to so many. My concerns have nothing to do with the individual issues but with the fact that the establishment are so unwilling to deal with issues leaving the door open to a neo-nazi party in a new frock to fill the vacuum. | |||
"It's really simple in my mind. Forget about all the bollocks about other policies. Voting ukip is voting for an end to the EU. Vote any other party and we stay in the EU. If you don't like ukips other policies, after 5 years vote them out again. IN.any other party. OUT. Ukip. Me I'm voting out "No it is not, voting UKIP is a vote for an ultra right wing government! The 'out of the EU' stance is the populist vote winner to get them power! | |||
" UKIP will never govern but you need parties like them to make the others listen to the voters concerns That's what they said about the Nazi party in 1930's Germany..." No they didn't. | |||
"For Sale - one kitchen sink. Apply to D. Cameron, 10 Downing Street, London." After being thrown at Rochester & Strood I think it might be a bit bruised and battered by now. | |||
"get rid of the private old school tie people .....about 5 mps left then .as they all eaton or so ....we have no chance ..no normal working class people in goverment. over half our current mps, all parties have never had a real job ." And replace them with who? The days of Grammar school boy or girl made good are long gone. Funnily enough it's only Ukip who (rightly) advocate the return of Grammar schools as party policy. | |||
if anyone deserves credit for the Demise of the BNP it's Ukip ! | |||
"I'm still extremely curious about just how different ukip are? Millionaires, tories, bigots, shovelling as much cash their way via exoenses - even when they hadn't anything paid out. Is it just that they're clueless about how to run the country, or is that more of the same old? There's no manifesto and the one they did publish they're now refusing to show. We know they'd get us out of Europe, but the rest seems to be fairy dust. If you are going to mention expenses, don't forget the labour party as well. See below It was announced on 5 February 2010 that criminal charges would be prosecuted against Labour MPs Elliot Morley, David Chaytor and Jim Devine, and Conservative peer Lord Hanningfield in relation to false accounting.[14] On 11 March all four announced they would plead not guilty to charges of false accounting, however they were all later jailed.[15] Potential cases against other unnamed MPs and Lords are still being considered by the police and the Crown Prosecution Service as of December 2010. The Crown Prosecution Service announced on 19 May 2010 that Labour MP Eric Illsley would be charged with three counts of false accounting; he was also suspended from the Labour Party. Lord Taylor of Warwick, a Conservative peer, had also been charged with six counts of false accounting. On 13 October 2010 it was announced that former Labour MP Margaret Moran would also be charged with false accounting, while on 14 October 2010 former Minister of State for Europe and Labour MP Denis MacShane was referred to the Police following a complaint from the British National Party, as a consequence of which he was also jailed. Three Labour Peers were suspended on 18 October 2010 due to their expenses claims: Lord Bhatia was suspended from the House of Lords for eight months and told to repay £27,446; Lord Paul suspended from the House of Lords for four months and ordered to pay back £41,982 and Baroness Uddin faces a police investigation for alleged fraud for claiming at least £180,000 in expenses by designating an empty flat, and previously an allegedly nonexistent property as her main residence. She was suspended from the House of Lords until the end of 2012 and required to repay £125,349. " Good post but you forgot Jackboot Jacqui and her sisters spare room, and was it her or the other most obnoxious woman on planet earth (Hattie Harm-men) who put a porn movie on her expenses? Oh and Alistair Darling who did more flips than Tommy. Socialists, don't you just love them NOT. | |||
"It's really simple in my mind. Forget about all the bollocks about other policies. Voting ukip is voting for an end to the EU. Vote any other party and we stay in the EU. If you don't like ukips other policies, after 5 years vote them out again. IN.any other party. OUT. Ukip. Me I'm voting out
No it is not, voting UKIP is a vote for an ultra right wing government! The 'out of the EU' stance is the populist vote winner to get them power!". What utter crap. Ultra right wing!!. What plant are you currently lounging around on! I want out of the EU for various reasons, but mostly because I don't like paella or bockwurst sausages. And I really don't give a fuck if that makes me xenophobic or not. | |||
" our country cannot keep letting people in we are on a island that is already overpopulated this defines the word xenophobia now i know you are talking bollocks its not a fear its practical our infrastructure cannot cope with the influx of endless thousands . and you call it Xenophobia no its facts
fear/dislike ..... you are vocal about your dislike of foreigners for what ever reason ... ergo xenophobia "Really? If UKIP hate foreigners so much then why does Nigel Farage have a german wife????? | |||
"They already have if anyone deserves credit for the Demise of the BNP it's Ukip !"That's a good point. | |||
" our country cannot keep letting people in we are on a island that is already overpopulated this defines the word xenophobia now i know you are talking bollocks its not a fear its practical our infrastructure cannot cope with the influx of endless thousands . and you call it Xenophobia no its facts
fear/dislike ..... you are vocal about your dislike of foreigners for what ever reason ... ergo xenophobia
Really? If UKIP hate foreigners so much then why does Nigel Farage have a german wife?????"Because they are horny as hell. Trust me, I've got one as well. | |||
"It's really simple in my mind. Forget about all the bollocks about other policies. Voting ukip is voting for an end to the EU. Vote any other party and we stay in the EU. If you don't like ukips other policies, after 5 years vote them out again. IN.any other party. OUT. Ukip. Me I'm voting out
No it is not, voting UKIP is a vote for an ultra right wing government! The 'out of the EU' stance is the populist vote winner to get them power!"Which of the other parties are anti EU, and take the position of leaving the EU then? As far as i can see UKIP are the only ones, the others Lib dem/Labour/ Con are all pro EU and want Britain to stay in it. | |||
"thanks for that informed and well-considered response You are the one calling everyone racist because they are sick of the self serving ponces we have in government now. UKIP just had two self serving pounces re-elected. How is UKIP different? They are just conservatives wearing a different coat." Mark Reckless and Doug Carswell could not keep their promises to their constituents as Conservative MP's. That is why they left and joined UKIP. | |||
"They certainly seem to have put the wind up both the Conservative and Labour parties. It looks as though the Tories will have to get off the fence and move more towards the right to negate some of the UKIP support. Cameron needs to grow some balls and show he is a leader. Labour seems like a rudderless ship. Party of the people, but I remember PM Brown and his comments on the 'bigoted woman', Miliband not making eye contact with a beggar whilst given 2p, and now Emily Thornberry looking down on White Van Man. As professional politicians, they seem to have moved from grass roots. Thankfully, the Liberals seem dead in the water. Are the bi-elections an indicator of future change or just a protest vote? " In answer to your question OP, yes UKIP have changed british politics and i'm very glad they have.
On the side note to Emily Thornberry the Labour MP who tweeted the photo of the house in Rochester with white van on the drive and 3 England flags, st Georges hanging on the front of the house, saying #This is Rochester, well it did not suprise me in the slightest.
It just shows the Labour party's true feeling towards working class people in this country now, the Labour party liberal elite in westminster look down their noses and sneer at working class people, the mask well and truely slipped when Emily Thornberry tweeted what she did.
Is the Labour party so far up its own arse now that they think an englishman should not have an English St Georges flag flying on the front of his house?
How more out of touch can the Labour party get with ordinary people in this country is anyones guess?
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"Every single Member of the house is out of touch with reality. They live in a world that is devoid of compassion or care for anyone outside their own elitist mob. I would not even bother wasting my time to piss on one that was on fire in a public street. Self serving pricks, that just blame everyone else for the complete screw up they have made of this once proud nation. Cant pay private, then tough,because we have already sold it to our mates at "Mates Rates" Same corrupt principles,just different coloured Ties " .
And the EU are even worse | |||
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"If the EU is such a bad place to be. Why is Farage so determined to get as many seats in there as he can. Sure us leaving would mean all but 2 of his party would be unemployed ????? With no expenses to use for running his party." UKIP want as many seats in the european parliament as possible so they can disrupt the undemocratic, corrupt EU as much as they can from the inside out. The EU won't change, under Junker they will just want ever more closer political, and monetary union with everything else, a united states of europe.......No thanks! | |||
 | |||
"If the EU is such a bad place to be. Why is Farage so determined to get as many seats in there as he can. Sure us leaving would mean all but 2 of his party would be unemployed ????? With no expenses to use for running his party. UKIP want as many seats in the european parliament as possible so they can disrupt the undemocratic, corrupt EU as much as they can from the inside out. The EU won't change, under Junker they will just want ever more closer political, and monetary union with everything else, a united states of europe.......No thanks!" If he had all of the UK allocation he would have less than 1% of the votes. How does that logic work then ? Then again most of them dont even turn up to vote at all. | |||
"They certainly seem to have put the wind up both the Conservative and Labour parties. It looks as though the Tories will have to get off the fence and move more towards the right to negate some of the UKIP support. Cameron needs to grow some balls and show he is a leader. Labour seems like a rudderless ship. Party of the people, but I remember PM Brown and his comments on the 'bigoted woman', Miliband not making eye contact with a beggar whilst given 2p, and now Emily Thornberry looking down on White Van Man. As professional politicians, they seem to have moved from grass roots. Thankfully, the Liberals seem dead in the water. Are the bi-elections an indicator of future change or just a protest vote? In answer to your question OP, yes UKIP have changed british politics and i'm very glad they have.
On the side note to Emily Thornberry the Labour MP who tweeted the photo of the house in Rochester with white van on the drive and 3 England flags, st Georges hanging on the front of the house, saying #This is Rochester, well it did not suprise me in the slightest.
It just shows the Labour party's true feeling towards working class people in this country now, the Labour party liberal elite in westminster look down their noses and sneer at working class people, the mask well and truely slipped when Emily Thornberry tweeted what she did.
Is the Labour party so far up its own arse now that they think an englishman should not have an English St Georges flag flying on the front of his house?
How more out of touch can the Labour party get with ordinary people in this country is anyones guess?
"Thornberry has reportedly quit her job. She's probably off to start a new party called "True Labour" | |||
"If the EU is such a bad place to be. Why is Farage so determined to get as many seats in there as he can. Sure us leaving would mean all but 2 of his party would be unemployed ????? With no expenses to use for running his party." You really don't understand that?
For the first point try Googleing "5th column".
As Farage has said many times in Brussels and Strasburg. There is nothing he would like more than for all British MEP's to be made redundant, yes Turkeys sometimes do vote for Christmas.
As for the expenses. Of course Ukip channel some of the expenses money back into party coffers. Unlike the Tory's they don't have anything like the amount of funding from business, and unlike Labour they don't have Len McCluskey.
Simples. | |||
"They certainly seem to have put the wind up both the Conservative and Labour parties. It looks as though the Tories will have to get off the fence and move more towards the right to negate some of the UKIP support. Cameron needs to grow some balls and show he is a leader. Labour seems like a rudderless ship. Party of the people, but I remember PM Brown and his comments on the 'bigoted woman', Miliband not making eye contact with a beggar whilst given 2p, and now Emily Thornberry looking down on White Van Man. As professional politicians, they seem to have moved from grass roots. Thankfully, the Liberals seem dead in the water. Are the bi-elections an indicator of future change or just a protest vote? In answer to your question OP, yes UKIP have changed british politics and i'm very glad they have.
On the side note to Emily Thornberry the Labour MP who tweeted the photo of the house in Rochester with white van on the drive and 3 England flags, st Georges hanging on the front of the house, saying #This is Rochester, well it did not suprise me in the slightest.
It just shows the Labour party's true feeling towards working class people in this country now, the Labour party liberal elite in westminster look down their noses and sneer at working class people, the mask well and truely slipped when Emily Thornberry tweeted what she did.
Is the Labour party so far up its own arse now that they think an englishman should not have an English St Georges flag flying on the front of his house?
How more out of touch can the Labour party get with ordinary people in this country is anyones guess?
Thornberry has reportedly quit her job. She's probably off to start a new party called "True Labour" "Yes with her cut glass accent from her 3 million quid house. Nowt like a true socialist. | |||
" our country cannot keep letting people in we are on a island that is already overpopulated this defines the word xenophobia now i know you are talking bollocks its not a fear its practical our infrastructure cannot cope with the influx of endless thousands . and you call it Xenophobia no its facts
fear/dislike ..... you are vocal about your dislike of foreigners for what ever reason ... ergo xenophobia
Really? If UKIP hate foreigners so much then why does Nigel Farage have a german wife?????"i haven't mentioned hate in my posts .... i did however mention the definition of the word xenophobia: fear or dislike of people from a foreign country ..... ukip, on a daily basis and for whatever reasons they have, publically express their dislike of foreigners being in this country .... hence they are undoubtedly xenophobic | |||
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" our country cannot keep letting people in we are on a island that is already overpopulated this defines the word xenophobia now i know you are talking bollocks its not a fear its practical our infrastructure cannot cope with the influx of endless thousands . and you call it Xenophobia no its facts
fear/dislike ..... you are vocal about your dislike of foreigners for what ever reason ... ergo xenophobia
Really? If UKIP hate foreigners so much then why does Nigel Farage have a german wife?????
i haven't mentioned hate in my posts .... i did however mention the definition of the word xenophobia: fear or dislike of people from a foreign country ..... ukip, on a daily basis and for whatever reasons they have, publically express their dislike of foreigners being in this country .... hence they are undoubtedly xenophobic "Xenophobia is the unreasoned fear of that which is perceived to be foreign or strange. Fear is not the same as concern and they have expressed their reasons, which, whether you agree with them or not, negate your definition. | |||
"get rid of the private old school tie people .....about 5 mps left then .as they all eaton or so ....we have no chance ..no normal working class people in goverment. over half our current mps, all parties have never had a real job ." Agreed, need to turf out the two privately-educated UKIP MPs whilst we're at it | |||
" our country cannot keep letting people in we are on a island that is already overpopulated this defines the word xenophobia now i know you are talking bollocks its not a fear its practical our infrastructure cannot cope with the influx of endless thousands . and you call it Xenophobia no its facts
fear/dislike ..... you are vocal about your dislike of foreigners for what ever reason ... ergo xenophobia
Really? If UKIP hate foreigners so much then why does Nigel Farage have a german wife?????
i haven't mentioned hate in my posts .... i did however mention the definition of the word xenophobia: fear or dislike of people from a foreign country ..... ukip, on a daily basis and for whatever reasons they have, publically express their dislike of foreigners being in this country .... hence they are undoubtedly xenophobic
Xenophobia is the unreasoned fear of that which is perceived to be foreign or strange. Fear is not the same as concern and they have expressed their reasons, which, whether you agree with them or not, negate your definition.
"actually the full definition includes irrational or intense fear or dislike ..... ukip publically state their intense dislike of foreigners being in this country on a daily basis .... you can't leave out part of the definition of the word xenophobia in an attempt to bolster an incorrect line of arguement | |||
"UKIP now have 2 new MP's so that's 2 new faces in Westminster. I think it will be a hung parliament. mark reckless is not a new face Yeah, but he is two faced. Point taken...one new face
Oh ffs! Alright then, they are not new faces but I bet they've both bought new suits to go to the house of commons in.
What do I know? Politics Bolitics.
carswell isn't a new face either ..... neither of them are new faces .... they are both defected tory mps" | |||
" our country cannot keep letting people in we are on a island that is already overpopulated this defines the word xenophobia now i know you are talking bollocks its not a fear its practical our infrastructure cannot cope with the influx of endless thousands . and you call it Xenophobia no its facts
fear/dislike ..... you are vocal about your dislike of foreigners for what ever reason ... ergo xenophobia
Really? If UKIP hate foreigners so much then why does Nigel Farage have a german wife?????
i haven't mentioned hate in my posts .... i did however mention the definition of the word xenophobia: fear or dislike of people from a foreign country ..... ukip, on a daily basis and for whatever reasons they have, publically express their dislike of foreigners being in this country .... hence they are undoubtedly xenophobic
Xenophobia is the unreasoned fear of that which is perceived to be foreign or strange. Fear is not the same as concern and they have expressed their reasons, which, whether you agree with them or not, negate your definition.
actually the full definition includes irrational or intense fear or dislike ..... ukip publically state their intense dislike of foreigners being in this country on a daily basis .... you can't leave out part of the definition of the word xenophobia in an attempt to bolster an incorrect line of arguement ""dislike of foreigners being in this country" has a very different meaning to "that which is perceived to be foreign or strange". The OED has already done an excellent job of defining the word for me, thank you. | |||
"I feel a bit ashamed to be British today - a country where racism, xenophobia, bigotry, intolerance and narrow self-interest seems to be flourishing." From my observations, I believe Britain to be the least racist, least corrupt,most tolerant nation on the planet. Am I alone here? | |||
" our country cannot keep letting people in we are on a island that is already overpopulated this defines the word xenophobia now i know you are talking bollocks its not a fear its practical our infrastructure cannot cope with the influx of endless thousands . and you call it Xenophobia no its facts
fear/dislike ..... you are vocal about your dislike of foreigners for what ever reason ... ergo xenophobia
Really? If UKIP hate foreigners so much then why does Nigel Farage have a german wife?????
i haven't mentioned hate in my posts .... i did however mention the definition of the word xenophobia: fear or dislike of people from a foreign country ..... ukip, on a daily basis and for whatever reasons they have, publically express their dislike of foreigners being in this country .... hence they are undoubtedly xenophobic
Xenophobia is the unreasoned fear of that which is perceived to be foreign or strange. Fear is not the same as concern and they have expressed their reasons, which, whether you agree with them or not, negate your definition.
actually the full definition includes irrational or intense fear or dislike ..... ukip publically state their intense dislike of foreigners being in this country on a daily basis .... you can't leave out part of the definition of the word xenophobia in an attempt to bolster an incorrect line of arguement "As you put it Fear and dislike of foreigners then.....fact is Farage still has a German wife, does he fear and dislike her, i don't think so. UKIP want a fair and balanced, controlled immigration system in this country, something which the Labour and Conservative party have both spectacularly failed to give the british public during their times in office. As long as we are in the EU we won't be able to control immigration. Thats the way i see it if you want to call me xenophobic because of that then i really could'nt give a toss. | |||
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"I think the only thing UKIP are doing is legitimising a discussion about immigration, which was always legitimate but we were made to feel it wasn't, as well as promoting an anti-EU agenda which seems to be spreading to the Tories. By pursuing the former, they are also giving a voice to an undesirable racist element in our society who have long been silenced. I don't mean that UKIP is a racist party... But I'd venture to bet that most people who used to vote BNP now vote UKIP, which is what I mean by the fact that they are giving a mainstream voice to this racist faction. Which, if I haven't made it clear, I feel is deeply worrying. By pursuing the latter, they are imposing an overly simplistic in/out debate on the question of Europe which shows all the signs of having a deeply detrimental impact. I believe that Europe should be a powerhouse of democracy, a united states of Europe that has, at the centre of it's constitution, a deeply democratic ideal. Europe is only likely to become that with Britain at the helm. If the UK insists on staying outside the EU then it is much more likely to develop into a bloated bureaucracy right on our doorstep. That's because the UK is the mother of democracy... and the UK can bring that democratic thinking to the growth of the EU. I would rather the UK was part of a powerful democratic Europe, rather than a small island of democracy on the border of a huge un-democratic power block. In my mind the first of these ensures our relevancy in the future, whilst the second ensures our irrelevancy. That's my 2p "I thought that is at least a pounds worth | |||
"I think the only thing UKIP are doing is legitimising a discussion about immigration, which was always legitimate but we were made to feel it wasn't, as well as promoting an anti-EU agenda which seems to be spreading to the Tories. By pursuing the former, they are also giving a voice to an undesirable racist element in our society who have long been silenced. I don't mean that UKIP is a racist party... But I'd venture to bet that most people who used to vote BNP now vote UKIP, which is what I mean by the fact that they are giving a mainstream voice to this racist faction. Which, if I haven't made it clear, I feel is deeply worrying. By pursuing the latter, they are imposing an overly simplistic in/out debate on the question of Europe which shows all the signs of having a deeply detrimental impact. I believe that Europe should be a powerhouse of democracy, a united states of Europe that has, at the centre of it's constitution, a deeply democratic ideal. Europe is only likely to become that with Britain at the helm. If the UK insists on staying outside the EU then it is much more likely to develop into a bloated bureaucracy right on our doorstep. That's because the UK is the mother of democracy... and the UK can bring that democratic thinking to the growth of the EU. I would rather the UK was part of a powerful democratic Europe, rather than a small island of democracy on the border of a huge un-democratic power block. In my mind the first of these ensures our relevancy in the future, whilst the second ensures our irrelevancy. That's my 2p "First two paragraphs I agree with 100%. Third, I am not so sure. It is the height of British arrogance to think that the free movement of others should be restricted but that those same rules should not apply to us. They will apply to us. As far as I understand, UKIP wish to exit the EU and not join EFTA because both enable free movement of people. I personally think that the abandonment of free movement will be of great detriment to the young and aspirational of this country. I have been privileged enough to live and work in France and Spain and feel a richer person because of it. Denying our youth the opportunity of work and free travel throughout the Europe of the future is really selfish in my opinion. | |||
"I think the only thing UKIP are doing is legitimising a discussion about immigration, which was always legitimate but we were made to feel it wasn't, as well as promoting an anti-EU agenda which seems to be spreading to the Tories. By pursuing the former, they are also giving a voice to an undesirable racist element in our society who have long been silenced. I don't mean that UKIP is a racist party... But I'd venture to bet that most people who used to vote BNP now vote UKIP, which is what I mean by the fact that they are giving a mainstream voice to this racist faction. Which, if I haven't made it clear, I feel is deeply worrying. By pursuing the latter, they are imposing an overly simplistic in/out debate on the question of Europe which shows all the signs of having a deeply detrimental impact. I believe that Europe should be a powerhouse of democracy, a united states of Europe that has, at the centre of it's constitution, a deeply democratic ideal. Europe is only likely to become that with Britain at the helm. If the UK insists on staying outside the EU then it is much more likely to develop into a bloated bureaucracy right on our doorstep. That's because the UK is the mother of democracy... and the UK can bring that democratic thinking to the growth of the EU. I would rather the UK was part of a powerful democratic Europe, rather than a small island of democracy on the border of a huge un-democratic power block. In my mind the first of these ensures our relevancy in the future, whilst the second ensures our irrelevancy. That's my 2p
First two paragraphs I agree with 100%. Third, I am not so sure.
It is the height of British arrogance to think that the free movement of others should be restricted but that those same rules should not apply to us. They will apply to us.
As far as I understand, UKIP wish to exit the EU and not join EFTA because both enable free movement of people. I personally think that the abandonment of free movement will be of great detriment to the young and aspirational of this country. I have been privileged enough to live and work in France and Spain and feel a richer person because of it. Denying our youth the opportunity of work and free travel throughout the Europe of the future is really selfish in my opinion. "My son went to work in France and struggled as they look after their own first | |||
" our country cannot keep letting people in we are on a island that is already overpopulated this defines the word xenophobia now i know you are talking bollocks its not a fear its practical our infrastructure cannot cope with the influx of endless thousands . and you call it Xenophobia no its facts
fear/dislike ..... you are vocal about your dislike of foreigners for what ever reason ... ergo xenophobia
Really? If UKIP hate foreigners so much then why does Nigel Farage have a german wife?????
i haven't mentioned hate in my posts .... i did however mention the definition of the word xenophobia: fear or dislike of people from a foreign country ..... ukip, on a daily basis and for whatever reasons they have, publically express their dislike of foreigners being in this country .... hence they are undoubtedly xenophobic
Xenophobia is the unreasoned fear of that which is perceived to be foreign or strange. Fear is not the same as concern and they have expressed their reasons, which, whether you agree with them or not, negate your definition.
actually the full definition includes irrational or intense fear or dislike ..... ukip publically state their intense dislike of foreigners being in this country on a daily basis .... you can't leave out part of the definition of the word xenophobia in an attempt to bolster an incorrect line of arguement
As you put it Fear and dislike of foreigners then.....fact is Farage still has a German wife, does he fear and dislike her, i don't think so.
UKIP want a fair and balanced, controlled immigration system in this country, something which the Labour and Conservative party have both spectacularly failed to give the british public during their times in office. As long as we are in the EU we won't be able to control immigration. Thats the way i see it if you want to call me xenophobic because of that then i really could'nt give a toss.
"This is because Farage and many others have never and will never believe in a free Europe. The next step on from the control of movement of people within the EU is the control of movement of people within the UK. There is actually much to be said for keeping populations in place even within a country, but this is fundamentally against the human rights of the individual. | |||
"I think the only thing UKIP are doing is legitimising a discussion about immigration, which was always legitimate but we were made to feel it wasn't, as well as promoting an anti-EU agenda which seems to be spreading to the Tories. By pursuing the former, they are also giving a voice to an undesirable racist element in our society who have long been silenced. I don't mean that UKIP is a racist party... But I'd venture to bet that most people who used to vote BNP now vote UKIP, which is what I mean by the fact that they are giving a mainstream voice to this racist faction. Which, if I haven't made it clear, I feel is deeply worrying. By pursuing the latter, they are imposing an overly simplistic in/out debate on the question of Europe which shows all the signs of having a deeply detrimental impact. I believe that Europe should be a powerhouse of democracy, a united states of Europe that has, at the centre of it's constitution, a deeply democratic ideal. Europe is only likely to become that with Britain at the helm. If the UK insists on staying outside the EU then it is much more likely to develop into a bloated bureaucracy right on our doorstep. That's because the UK is the mother of democracy... and the UK can bring that democratic thinking to the growth of the EU. I would rather the UK was part of a powerful democratic Europe, rather than a small island of democracy on the border of a huge un-democratic power block. In my mind the first of these ensures our relevancy in the future, whilst the second ensures our irrelevancy. That's my 2p
First two paragraphs I agree with 100%. Third, I am not so sure.
It is the height of British arrogance to think that the free movement of others should be restricted but that those same rules should not apply to us. They will apply to us.
As far as I understand, UKIP wish to exit the EU and not join EFTA because both enable free movement of people. I personally think that the abandonment of free movement will be of great detriment to the young and aspirational of this country. I have been privileged enough to live and work in France and Spain and feel a richer person because of it. Denying our youth the opportunity of work and free travel throughout the Europe of the future is really selfish in my opinion.
My son went to work in France and struggled as they look after their own first "People actually look after themselves, which is no bad thing IMHO. | |||
"I think the only thing UKIP are doing is legitimising a discussion about immigration, which was always legitimate but we were made to feel it wasn't, as well as promoting an anti-EU agenda which seems to be spreading to the Tories. By pursuing the former, they are also giving a voice to an undesirable racist element in our society who have long been silenced. I don't mean that UKIP is a racist party... But I'd venture to bet that most people who used to vote BNP now vote UKIP, which is what I mean by the fact that they are giving a mainstream voice to this racist faction. Which, if I haven't made it clear, I feel is deeply worrying. By pursuing the latter, they are imposing an overly simplistic in/out debate on the question of Europe which shows all the signs of having a deeply detrimental impact. I believe that Europe should be a powerhouse of democracy, a united states of Europe that has, at the centre of it's constitution, a deeply democratic ideal. Europe is only likely to become that with Britain at the helm. If the UK insists on staying outside the EU then it is much more likely to develop into a bloated bureaucracy right on our doorstep. That's because the UK is the mother of democracy... and the UK can bring that democratic thinking to the growth of the EU. I would rather the UK was part of a powerful democratic Europe, rather than a small island of democracy on the border of a huge un-democratic power block. In my mind the first of these ensures our relevancy in the future, whilst the second ensures our irrelevancy. That's my 2p
First two paragraphs I agree with 100%. Third, I am not so sure.
It is the height of British arrogance to think that the free movement of others should be restricted but that those same rules should not apply to us. They will apply to us.
As far as I understand, UKIP wish to exit the EU and not join EFTA because both enable free movement of people. I personally think that the abandonment of free movement will be of great detriment to the young and aspirational of this country. I have been privileged enough to live and work in France and Spain and feel a richer person because of it. Denying our youth the opportunity of work and free travel throughout the Europe of the future is really selfish in my opinion.
My son went to work in France and struggled as they look after their own first
People actually look after themselves, which is no bad thing IMHO.". Your free to travel nearly everywhere in the world and you will be still free to travel in Europe after we've exited, and you'll still be free to work there, if they decided they want you, just like Canada and Australia and Russia and America and Brazil etc etc. Europe will never ever be democratic to all its people (just look at the US). It's doomed to fail and fail it will just like the US did, and we all know how that ended. So let's cut the bullshit about xenophobia and racism and learn from history and get the fuck out while the goings good. | |||
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"I think the only thing UKIP are doing is legitimising a discussion about immigration, which was always legitimate but we were made to feel it wasn't, as well as promoting an anti-EU agenda which seems to be spreading to the Tories. By pursuing the former, they are also giving a voice to an undesirable racist element in our society who have long been silenced. I don't mean that UKIP is a racist party... But I'd venture to bet that most people who used to vote BNP now vote UKIP, which is what I mean by the fact that they are giving a mainstream voice to this racist faction. Which, if I haven't made it clear, I feel is deeply worrying. By pursuing the latter, they are imposing an overly simplistic in/out debate on the question of Europe which shows all the signs of having a deeply detrimental impact. I believe that Europe should be a powerhouse of democracy, a united states of Europe that has, at the centre of it's constitution, a deeply democratic ideal. Europe is only likely to become that with Britain at the helm. If the UK insists on staying outside the EU then it is much more likely to develop into a bloated bureaucracy right on our doorstep. That's because the UK is the mother of democracy... and the UK can bring that democratic thinking to the growth of the EU. I would rather the UK was part of a powerful democratic Europe, rather than a small island of democracy on the border of a huge un-democratic power block. In my mind the first of these ensures our relevancy in the future, whilst the second ensures our irrelevancy. That's my 2p
First two paragraphs I agree with 100%. Third, I am not so sure.
It is the height of British arrogance to think that the free movement of others should be restricted but that those same rules should not apply to us. They will apply to us.
As far as I understand, UKIP wish to exit the EU and not join EFTA because both enable free movement of people. I personally think that the abandonment of free movement will be of great detriment to the young and aspirational of this country. I have been privileged enough to live and work in France and Spain and feel a richer person because of it. Denying our youth the opportunity of work and free travel throughout the Europe of the future is really selfish in my opinion.
My son went to work in France and struggled as they look after their own first
People actually look after themselves, which is no bad thing IMHO..
Your free to travel nearly everywhere in the world and you will be still free to travel in Europe after we've exited, and you'll still be free to work there, if they decided they want you, just like Canada and Australia and Russia and America and Brazil etc etc.
Europe will never ever be democratic to all its people (just look at the US). It's doomed to fail and fail it will just like the US did, and we all know how that ended.
So let's cut the bullshit about xenophobia and racism and learn from history and get the fuck out while the goings good."The future is a world without borders. It seems inconceivable that we want to build them up again in the 21st Century. | |||
"Like everybody else I have no idea what ukip will make of the new manifesto. The old one was disastrous for unemployed, pretty bad for working class. Very bad for middle class but quite good for £60,000 + earners. My guess is they will have to hide that a bit to get any seats at all. Or maybe they think voters won't read it so will come up with the same. " They smell power and so will do what all the other party's do. They will write an election that will buy votes. | |||
"I think the only thing UKIP are doing is legitimising a discussion about immigration, which was always legitimate but we were made to feel it wasn't, as well as promoting an anti-EU agenda which seems to be spreading to the Tories. By pursuing the former, they are also giving a voice to an undesirable racist element in our society who have long been silenced. I don't mean that UKIP is a racist party... But I'd venture to bet that most people who used to vote BNP now vote UKIP, which is what I mean by the fact that they are giving a mainstream voice to this racist faction. Which, if I haven't made it clear, I feel is deeply worrying. By pursuing the latter, they are imposing an overly simplistic in/out debate on the question of Europe which shows all the signs of having a deeply detrimental impact. I believe that Europe should be a powerhouse of democracy, a united states of Europe that has, at the centre of it's constitution, a deeply democratic ideal. Europe is only likely to become that with Britain at the helm. If the UK insists on staying outside the EU then it is much more likely to develop into a bloated bureaucracy right on our doorstep. That's because the UK is the mother of democracy... and the UK can bring that democratic thinking to the growth of the EU. I would rather the UK was part of a powerful democratic Europe, rather than a small island of democracy on the border of a huge un-democratic power block. In my mind the first of these ensures our relevancy in the future, whilst the second ensures our irrelevancy. That's my 2p
First two paragraphs I agree with 100%. Third, I am not so sure.
It is the height of British arrogance to think that the free movement of others should be restricted but that those same rules should not apply to us. They will apply to us.
As far as I understand, UKIP wish to exit the EU and not join EFTA because both enable free movement of people. I personally think that the abandonment of free movement will be of great detriment to the young and aspirational of this country. I have been privileged enough to live and work in France and Spain and feel a richer person because of it. Denying our youth the opportunity of work and free travel throughout the Europe of the future is really selfish in my opinion.
My son went to work in France and struggled as they look after their own first
People actually look after themselves, which is no bad thing IMHO..
Your free to travel nearly everywhere in the world and you will be still free to travel in Europe after we've exited, and you'll still be free to work there, if they decided they want you, just like Canada and Australia and Russia and America and Brazil etc etc.
Europe will never ever be democratic to all its people (just look at the US). It's doomed to fail and fail it will just like the US did, and we all know how that ended.
So let's cut the bullshit about xenophobia and racism and learn from history and get the fuck out while the goings good.
The future is a world without borders. It seems inconceivable that we want to build them up again in the 21st Century.". Ha and you think socialism is an ideal dream. Take a long good look round the world and tell me the future is without borders. Fuck me in some places not only is it a fictitious line but it's a ruddy great wall too! | |||
"Like everybody else I have no idea what ukip will make of the new manifesto. The old one was disastrous for unemployed, pretty bad for working class. Very bad for middle class but quite good for £60,000 + earners. My guess is they will have to hide that a bit to get any seats at all. Or maybe they think voters won't read it so will come up with the same. They smell power and so will do what all the other party's do. They will write an election that will buy votes. " . They can buy my vote any time providing they see through the promise of getting us out. | |||
"I think the only thing UKIP are doing is legitimising a discussion about immigration, which was always legitimate but we were made to feel it wasn't, as well as promoting an anti-EU agenda which seems to be spreading to the Tories. By pursuing the former, they are also giving a voice to an undesirable racist element in our society who have long been silenced. I don't mean that UKIP is a racist party... But I'd venture to bet that most people who used to vote BNP now vote UKIP, which is what I mean by the fact that they are giving a mainstream voice to this racist faction. Which, if I haven't made it clear, I feel is deeply worrying. By pursuing the latter, they are imposing an overly simplistic in/out debate on the question of Europe which shows all the signs of having a deeply detrimental impact. I believe that Europe should be a powerhouse of democracy, a united states of Europe that has, at the centre of it's constitution, a deeply democratic ideal. Europe is only likely to become that with Britain at the helm. If the UK insists on staying outside the EU then it is much more likely to develop into a bloated bureaucracy right on our doorstep. That's because the UK is the mother of democracy... and the UK can bring that democratic thinking to the growth of the EU. I would rather the UK was part of a powerful democratic Europe, rather than a small island of democracy on the border of a huge un-democratic power block. In my mind the first of these ensures our relevancy in the future, whilst the second ensures our irrelevancy. That's my 2p
First two paragraphs I agree with 100%. Third, I am not so sure.
It is the height of British arrogance to think that the free movement of others should be restricted but that those same rules should not apply to us. They will apply to us.
As far as I understand, UKIP wish to exit the EU and not join EFTA because both enable free movement of people. I personally think that the abandonment of free movement will be of great detriment to the young and aspirational of this country. I have been privileged enough to live and work in France and Spain and feel a richer person because of it. Denying our youth the opportunity of work and free travel throughout the Europe of the future is really selfish in my opinion.
My son went to work in France and struggled as they look after their own first
People actually look after themselves, which is no bad thing IMHO..
Your free to travel nearly everywhere in the world and you will be still free to travel in Europe after we've exited, and you'll still be free to work there, if they decided they want you, just like Canada and Australia and Russia and America and Brazil etc etc.
Europe will never ever be democratic to all its people (just look at the US). It's doomed to fail and fail it will just like the US did, and we all know how that ended.
So let's cut the bullshit about xenophobia and racism and learn from history and get the fuck out while the goings good.
The future is a world without borders. It seems inconceivable that we want to build them up again in the 21st Century..
Ha and you think socialism is an ideal dream.
Take a long good look round the world and tell me the future is without borders.
Fuck me in some places not only is it a fictitious line but it's a ruddy great wall too!"I don't disagree but it is division and borders that cause discontent and ultimately war. It is very idealistic and not really fitting with my generally right wing _iews. A world without borders would be a wonderful place. I just think what I think, I don't wear any colour of rosette. | |||
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"This country needs to create real jobs that create actual money for the country. We are a country of managers and creditors" Very good call but therein lies also the problem. The only "real" jobs that we can create are highly skilled because "ordinary" jobs are now being undertaken in China and India. As long as we all demand to buy the cheapest products then manufacturing will move to the cheapest cost base. Germany got it right by focusing on quality but they have an education system in which the kids are very much more engaged than ours. | |||
"I think the only thing UKIP are doing is legitimising a discussion about immigration, which was always legitimate but we were made to feel it wasn't, as well as promoting an anti-EU agenda which seems to be spreading to the Tories. By pursuing the former, they are also giving a voice to an undesirable racist element in our society who have long been silenced. I don't mean that UKIP is a racist party... But I'd venture to bet that most people who used to vote BNP now vote UKIP, which is what I mean by the fact that they are giving a mainstream voice to this racist faction. Which, if I haven't made it clear, I feel is deeply worrying. By pursuing the latter, they are imposing an overly simplistic in/out debate on the question of Europe which shows all the signs of having a deeply detrimental impact. I believe that Europe should be a powerhouse of democracy, a united states of Europe that has, at the centre of it's constitution, a deeply democratic ideal. Europe is only likely to become that with Britain at the helm. If the UK insists on staying outside the EU then it is much more likely to develop into a bloated bureaucracy right on our doorstep. That's because the UK is the mother of democracy... and the UK can bring that democratic thinking to the growth of the EU. I would rather the UK was part of a powerful democratic Europe, rather than a small island of democracy on the border of a huge un-democratic power block. In my mind the first of these ensures our relevancy in the future, whilst the second ensures our irrelevancy. That's my 2p
First two paragraphs I agree with 100%. Third, I am not so sure.
It is the height of British arrogance to think that the free movement of others should be restricted but that those same rules should not apply to us. They will apply to us.
As far as I understand, UKIP wish to exit the EU and not join EFTA because both enable free movement of people. I personally think that the abandonment of free movement will be of great detriment to the young and aspirational of this country. I have been privileged enough to live and work in France and Spain and feel a richer person because of it. Denying our youth the opportunity of work and free travel throughout the Europe of the future is really selfish in my opinion.
My son went to work in France and struggled as they look after their own first
People actually look after themselves, which is no bad thing IMHO..
Your free to travel nearly everywhere in the world and you will be still free to travel in Europe after we've exited, and you'll still be free to work there, if they decided they want you, just like Canada and Australia and Russia and America and Brazil etc etc.
Europe will never ever be democratic to all its people (just look at the US). It's doomed to fail and fail it will just like the US did, and we all know how that ended.
So let's cut the bullshit about xenophobia and racism and learn from history and get the fuck out while the goings good.
The future is a world without borders. It seems inconceivable that we want to build them up again in the 21st Century..
Ha and you think socialism is an ideal dream.
Take a long good look round the world and tell me the future is without borders.
Fuck me in some places not only is it a fictitious line but it's a ruddy great wall too!
I don't disagree but it is division and borders that cause discontent and ultimately war. It is very idealistic and not really fitting with my generally right wing _iews. A world without borders would be a wonderful place. I just think what I think, I don't wear any colour of rosette."A world without borders might be ideal but that is fantasy land it will never happen. Too much so called religion causes most of the evil in the world today | |||
"I think the only thing UKIP are doing is legitimising a discussion about immigration, which was always legitimate but we were made to feel it wasn't, as well as promoting an anti-EU agenda which seems to be spreading to the Tories. By pursuing the former, they are also giving a voice to an undesirable racist element in our society who have long been silenced. I don't mean that UKIP is a racist party... But I'd venture to bet that most people who used to vote BNP now vote UKIP, which is what I mean by the fact that they are giving a mainstream voice to this racist faction. Which, if I haven't made it clear, I feel is deeply worrying. By pursuing the latter, they are imposing an overly simplistic in/out debate on the question of Europe which shows all the signs of having a deeply detrimental impact. I believe that Europe should be a powerhouse of democracy, a united states of Europe that has, at the centre of it's constitution, a deeply democratic ideal. Europe is only likely to become that with Britain at the helm. If the UK insists on staying outside the EU then it is much more likely to develop into a bloated bureaucracy right on our doorstep. That's because the UK is the mother of democracy... and the UK can bring that democratic thinking to the growth of the EU. I would rather the UK was part of a powerful democratic Europe, rather than a small island of democracy on the border of a huge un-democratic power block. In my mind the first of these ensures our relevancy in the future, whilst the second ensures our irrelevancy. That's my 2p
First two paragraphs I agree with 100%. Third, I am not so sure.
It is the height of British arrogance to think that the free movement of others should be restricted but that those same rules should not apply to us. They will apply to us.
As far as I understand, UKIP wish to exit the EU and not join EFTA because both enable free movement of people. I personally think that the abandonment of free movement will be of great detriment to the young and aspirational of this country. I have been privileged enough to live and work in France and Spain and feel a richer person because of it. Denying our youth the opportunity of work and free travel throughout the Europe of the future is really selfish in my opinion.
My son went to work in France and struggled as they look after their own first
People actually look after themselves, which is no bad thing IMHO..
Your free to travel nearly everywhere in the world and you will be still free to travel in Europe after we've exited, and you'll still be free to work there, if they decided they want you, just like Canada and Australia and Russia and America and Brazil etc etc.
Europe will never ever be democratic to all its people (just look at the US). It's doomed to fail and fail it will just like the US did, and we all know how that ended.
So let's cut the bullshit about xenophobia and racism and learn from history and get the fuck out while the goings good.
The future is a world without borders. It seems inconceivable that we want to build them up again in the 21st Century..
Ha and you think socialism is an ideal dream.
Take a long good look round the world and tell me the future is without borders.
Fuck me in some places not only is it a fictitious line but it's a ruddy great wall too!
I don't disagree but it is division and borders that cause discontent and ultimately war. It is very idealistic and not really fitting with my generally right wing _iews. A world without borders would be a wonderful place. I just think what I think, I don't wear any colour of rosette.".You so know how the formation of the US ended and was reborn don't you. They lost more people in that civil than ww1,ww2, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Korea, Iraq and the Spanish war combined. It divided them for years and to an extent still does today. And that was states that shared a friggin language. You want 300 years of that for a formation of a borderless super state where your free to work anywhere... Look at the US it doesn't work and will never work and will end in a bloody civil war..... You've been warned | |||
"OK, fair enough. What's going to happen to welfare benefits and the NHS when the Spanish send all the British OAP's living on the Costas back to where they came from?" firstly the spanish wouldnt send them back .they get theyre pensions from britain and send it in spain .. if they did send them back .. all those rich pensioners looking to buy a house in britain would kick start the ecconomy | |||
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"I think the only thing UKIP are doing is legitimising a discussion about immigration, which was always legitimate but we were made to feel it wasn't, as well as promoting an anti-EU agenda which seems to be spreading to the Tories. By pursuing the former, they are also giving a voice to an undesirable racist element in our society who have long been silenced. I don't mean that UKIP is a racist party... But I'd venture to bet that most people who used to vote BNP now vote UKIP, which is what I mean by the fact that they are giving a mainstream voice to this racist faction. Which, if I haven't made it clear, I feel is deeply worrying. By pursuing the latter, they are imposing an overly simplistic in/out debate on the question of Europe which shows all the signs of having a deeply detrimental impact. I believe that Europe should be a powerhouse of democracy, a united states of Europe that has, at the centre of it's constitution, a deeply democratic ideal. Europe is only likely to become that with Britain at the helm. If the UK insists on staying outside the EU then it is much more likely to develop into a bloated bureaucracy right on our doorstep. That's because the UK is the mother of democracy... and the UK can bring that democratic thinking to the growth of the EU. I would rather the UK was part of a powerful democratic Europe, rather than a small island of democracy on the border of a huge un-democratic power block. In my mind the first of these ensures our relevancy in the future, whilst the second ensures our irrelevancy. That's my 2p
First two paragraphs I agree with 100%. Third, I am not so sure.
It is the height of British arrogance to think that the free movement of others should be restricted but that those same rules should not apply to us. They will apply to us.
As far as I understand, UKIP wish to exit the EU and not join EFTA because both enable free movement of people. I personally think that the abandonment of free movement will be of great detriment to the young and aspirational of this country. I have been privileged enough to live and work in France and Spain and feel a richer person because of it. Denying our youth the opportunity of work and free travel throughout the Europe of the future is really selfish in my opinion.
My son went to work in France and struggled as they look after their own first
People actually look after themselves, which is no bad thing IMHO..
Your free to travel nearly everywhere in the world and you will be still free to travel in Europe after we've exited, and you'll still be free to work there, if they decided they want you, just like Canada and Australia and Russia and America and Brazil etc etc.
Europe will never ever be democratic to all its people (just look at the US). It's doomed to fail and fail it will just like the US did, and we all know how that ended.
So let's cut the bullshit about xenophobia and racism and learn from history and get the fuck out while the goings good.
The future is a world without borders. It seems inconceivable that we want to build them up again in the 21st Century..
Ha and you think socialism is an ideal dream.
Take a long good look round the world and tell me the future is without borders.
Fuck me in some places not only is it a fictitious line but it's a ruddy great wall too!
I don't disagree but it is division and borders that cause discontent and ultimately war. It is very idealistic and not really fitting with my generally right wing _iews. A world without borders would be a wonderful place. I just think what I think, I don't wear any colour of rosette..You so know how the formation of the US ended and was reborn don't you.
They lost more people in that civil than ww1,ww2, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Korea, Iraq and the Spanish war combined.
It divided them for years and to an extent still does today.
And that was states that shared a friggin language. You want 300 years of that for a formation of a borderless super state where your free to work anywhere...
Look at the US it doesn't work and will never work and will end in a bloody civil war..... You've been warned"Heres a thought on this, perhaps Florida could set up their own Independence party They could be called FLIP Sorry, could resist  | |||
"OK, fair enough. What's going to happen to welfare benefits and the NHS when the Spanish send all the British OAP's living on the Costas back to where they came from? firstly the spanish wouldnt send them back .they get theyre pensions from britain and send it in spain .. if they did send them back .. all those rich pensioners looking to buy a house in britain would kick start the ecconomy" Spain wouldn't send them home but if the UK stopped paying pensions overseas or participating in the European Health Insurance Scheme, they'd be back sharpish. | |||
"I think the only thing UKIP are doing is legitimising a discussion about immigration, which was always legitimate but we were made to feel it wasn't, as well as promoting an anti-EU agenda which seems to be spreading to the Tories. By pursuing the former, they are also giving a voice to an undesirable racist element in our society who have long been silenced. I don't mean that UKIP is a racist party... But I'd venture to bet that most people who used to vote BNP now vote UKIP, which is what I mean by the fact that they are giving a mainstream voice to this racist faction. Which, if I haven't made it clear, I feel is deeply worrying. By pursuing the latter, they are imposing an overly simplistic in/out debate on the question of Europe which shows all the signs of having a deeply detrimental impact. I believe that Europe should be a powerhouse of democracy, a united states of Europe that has, at the centre of it's constitution, a deeply democratic ideal. Europe is only likely to become that with Britain at the helm. If the UK insists on staying outside the EU then it is much more likely to develop into a bloated bureaucracy right on our doorstep. That's because the UK is the mother of democracy... and the UK can bring that democratic thinking to the growth of the EU. I would rather the UK was part of a powerful democratic Europe, rather than a small island of democracy on the border of a huge un-democratic power block. In my mind the first of these ensures our relevancy in the future, whilst the second ensures our irrelevancy. That's my 2p
First two paragraphs I agree with 100%. Third, I am not so sure.
It is the height of British arrogance to think that the free movement of others should be restricted but that those same rules should not apply to us. They will apply to us.
As far as I understand, UKIP wish to exit the EU and not join EFTA because both enable free movement of people. I personally think that the abandonment of free movement will be of great detriment to the young and aspirational of this country. I have been privileged enough to live and work in France and Spain and feel a richer person because of it. Denying our youth the opportunity of work and free travel throughout the Europe of the future is really selfish in my opinion.
My son went to work in France and struggled as they look after their own first
People actually look after themselves, which is no bad thing IMHO..
Your free to travel nearly everywhere in the world and you will be still free to travel in Europe after we've exited, and you'll still be free to work there, if they decided they want you, just like Canada and Australia and Russia and America and Brazil etc etc.
Europe will never ever be democratic to all its people (just look at the US). It's doomed to fail and fail it will just like the US did, and we all know how that ended.
So let's cut the bullshit about xenophobia and racism and learn from history and get the fuck out while the goings good.
The future is a world without borders. It seems inconceivable that we want to build them up again in the 21st Century..
Ha and you think socialism is an ideal dream.
Take a long good look round the world and tell me the future is without borders.
Fuck me in some places not only is it a fictitious line but it's a ruddy great wall too!
I don't disagree but it is division and borders that cause discontent and ultimately war. It is very idealistic and not really fitting with my generally right wing _iews. A world without borders would be a wonderful place. I just think what I think, I don't wear any colour of rosette..You so know how the formation of the US ended and was reborn don't you.
They lost more people in that civil than ww1,ww2, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Korea, Iraq and the Spanish war combined.
It divided them for years and to an extent still does today.
And that was states that shared a friggin language. You want 300 years of that for a formation of a borderless super state where your free to work anywhere...
Look at the US it doesn't work and will never work and will end in a bloody civil war..... You've been warned
Heres a thought on this, perhaps Florida could set up their own Independence party
They could be called
FLIP
Sorry, could resist ". Ha. That guy will never learn from history. It's doomed to fail and so is the euro and when it does you don't want to be anywhere near it. Unfortunately our geography is fixed but our politics doesn't have to be. Pull out, start spending on defences for the south coast, get new markets in the far East and south america ready for the European calamity that will unfold sooner or later  | |||
"I think the only thing UKIP are doing is legitimising a discussion about immigration, which was always legitimate but we were made to feel it wasn't, as well as promoting an anti-EU agenda which seems to be spreading to the Tories. By pursuing the former, they are also giving a voice to an undesirable racist element in our society who have long been silenced. I don't mean that UKIP is a racist party... But I'd venture to bet that most people who used to vote BNP now vote UKIP, which is what I mean by the fact that they are giving a mainstream voice to this racist faction. Which, if I haven't made it clear, I feel is deeply worrying. By pursuing the latter, they are imposing an overly simplistic in/out debate on the question of Europe which shows all the signs of having a deeply detrimental impact. I believe that Europe should be a powerhouse of democracy, a united states of Europe that has, at the centre of it's constitution, a deeply democratic ideal. Europe is only likely to become that with Britain at the helm. If the UK insists on staying outside the EU then it is much more likely to develop into a bloated bureaucracy right on our doorstep. That's because the UK is the mother of democracy... and the UK can bring that democratic thinking to the growth of the EU. I would rather the UK was part of a powerful democratic Europe, rather than a small island of democracy on the border of a huge un-democratic power block. In my mind the first of these ensures our relevancy in the future, whilst the second ensures our irrelevancy. That's my 2p
First two paragraphs I agree with 100%. Third, I am not so sure.
It is the height of British arrogance to think that the free movement of others should be restricted but that those same rules should not apply to us. They will apply to us.
As far as I understand, UKIP wish to exit the EU and not join EFTA because both enable free movement of people. I personally think that the abandonment of free movement will be of great detriment to the young and aspirational of this country. I have been privileged enough to live and work in France and Spain and feel a richer person because of it. Denying our youth the opportunity of work and free travel throughout the Europe of the future is really selfish in my opinion.
My son went to work in France and struggled as they look after their own first
People actually look after themselves, which is no bad thing IMHO..
Your free to travel nearly everywhere in the world and you will be still free to travel in Europe after we've exited, and you'll still be free to work there, if they decided they want you, just like Canada and Australia and Russia and America and Brazil etc etc.
Europe will never ever be democratic to all its people (just look at the US). It's doomed to fail and fail it will just like the US did, and we all know how that ended.
So let's cut the bullshit about xenophobia and racism and learn from history and get the fuck out while the goings good.
The future is a world without borders. It seems inconceivable that we want to build them up again in the 21st Century."Sorry but disagree with you on that point, with the increase of international terrorism seen all over the world, it makes sense to make borders and border controls stronger not weaker in the 21st century. | |||
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"Ukip will gain, labour is finished and only immarginates vote for them, conservatives have rich voting for them. So ukip and conservatives will do a joint coalition ukip getting ever bigger" I'm intrigued by these immarginates who are the only people who vote for Labour, who are they? | |||
"I'm still extremely curious about just how different ukip are? Millionaires, tories, bigots, shovelling as much cash their way via exoenses - even when they hadn't anything paid out. Is it just that they're clueless about how to run the country, or is that more of the same old? There's no manifesto and the one they did publish they're now refusing to show. We know they'd get us out of Europe, but the rest seems to be fairy dust. If you are going to mention expenses, don't forget the labour party as well. See below It was announced on 5 February 2010 that criminal charges would be prosecuted against Labour MPs Elliot Morley, David Chaytor and Jim Devine, and Conservative peer Lord Hanningfield in relation to false accounting.[14] On 11 March all four announced they would plead not guilty to charges of false accounting, however they were all later jailed.[15] Potential cases against other unnamed MPs and Lords are still being considered by the police and the Crown Prosecution Service as of December 2010. The Crown Prosecution Service announced on 19 May 2010 that Labour MP Eric Illsley would be charged with three counts of false accounting; he was also suspended from the Labour Party. Lord Taylor of Warwick, a Conservative peer, had also been charged with six counts of false accounting. On 13 October 2010 it was announced that former Labour MP Margaret Moran would also be charged with false accounting, while on 14 October 2010 former Minister of State for Europe and Labour MP Denis MacShane was referred to the Police following a complaint from the British National Party, as a consequence of which he was also jailed. Three Labour Peers were suspended on 18 October 2010 due to their expenses claims: Lord Bhatia was suspended from the House of Lords for eight months and told to repay £27,446; Lord Paul suspended from the House of Lords for four months and ordered to pay back £41,982 and Baroness Uddin faces a police investigation for alleged fraud for claiming at least £180,000 in expenses by designating an empty flat, and previously an allegedly nonexistent property as her main residence. She was suspended from the House of Lords until the end of 2012 and required to repay £125,349. Good post but you forgot Jackboot Jacqui and her sisters spare room, and was it her or the other most obnoxious woman on planet earth (Hattie Harm-men) who put a porn movie on her expenses? Oh and Alistair Darling who did more flips than Tommy. Socialists, don't you just love them NOT." Absolutely, I'm not pro Ukip, Labour, Conservative, libdem or any party - I really see little difference in the quality of self-serving in reds that they all have. Ukip are nothing fresh or new, it's more of the same old crap. | |||
"They certainly seem to have put the wind up both the Conservative and Labour parties. It looks as though the Tories will have to get off the fence and move more towards the right to negate some of the UKIP support. Cameron needs to grow some balls and show he is a leader. Labour seems like a rudderless ship. Party of the people, but I remember PM Brown and his comments on the 'bigoted woman', Miliband not making eye contact with a beggar whilst given 2p, and now Emily Thornberry looking down on White Van Man. As professional politicians, they seem to have moved from grass roots. Thankfully, the Liberals seem dead in the water. Are the bi-elections an indicator of future change or just a protest vote? " Will UKIP change Britain? Of course not, - what a naive question! Britain has ALWAYS been a country where the 'informed' get the hell out of there!!! @wake up everyone! xx xx xx | |||
" UKIP will never govern but you need parties like them to make the others listen to the voters concerns That's what they said about the Nazi party in 1930's Germany..." And Labour in the 1900s.... | |||
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" UKIP will never govern but you need parties like them to make the others listen to the voters concerns That's what they said about the Nazi party in 1930's Germany... " I would love to know how many threads have Nazi references. Im surprised that Fabio's cereal thread never got one! | |||
"I think the only thing UKIP are doing is legitimising a discussion about immigration, which was always legitimate but we were made to feel it wasn't, as well as promoting an anti-EU agenda which seems to be spreading to the Tories. By pursuing the former, they are also giving a voice to an undesirable racist element in our society who have long been silenced. I don't mean that UKIP is a racist party... But I'd venture to bet that most people who used to vote BNP now vote UKIP, which is what I mean by the fact that they are giving a mainstream voice to this racist faction. Which, if I haven't made it clear, I feel is deeply worrying. By pursuing the latter, they are imposing an overly simplistic in/out debate on the question of Europe which shows all the signs of having a deeply detrimental impact. I believe that Europe should be a powerhouse of democracy, a united states of Europe that has, at the centre of it's constitution, a deeply democratic ideal. Europe is only likely to become that with Britain at the helm. If the UK insists on staying outside the EU then it is much more likely to develop into a bloated bureaucracy right on our doorstep. That's because the UK is the mother of democracy... and the UK can bring that democratic thinking to the growth of the EU. I would rather the UK was part of a powerful democratic Europe, rather than a small island of democracy on the border of a huge un-democratic power block. In my mind the first of these ensures our relevancy in the future, whilst the second ensures our irrelevancy. That's my 2p
First two paragraphs I agree with 100%. Third, I am not so sure.
It is the height of British arrogance to think that the free movement of others should be restricted but that those same rules should not apply to us. They will apply to us.
As far as I understand, UKIP wish to exit the EU and not join EFTA because both enable free movement of people. I personally think that the abandonment of free movement will be of great detriment to the young and aspirational of this country. I have been privileged enough to live and work in France and Spain and feel a richer person because of it. Denying our youth the opportunity of work and free travel throughout the Europe of the future is really selfish in my opinion.
My son went to work in France and struggled as they look after their own first
People actually look after themselves, which is no bad thing IMHO..
Your free to travel nearly everywhere in the world and you will be still free to travel in Europe after we've exited, and you'll still be free to work there, if they decided they want you, just like Canada and Australia and Russia and America and Brazil etc etc.
Europe will never ever be democratic to all its people (just look at the US). It's doomed to fail and fail it will just like the US did, and we all know how that ended.
So let's cut the bullshit about xenophobia and racism and learn from history and get the fuck out while the goings good.
The future is a world without borders. It seems inconceivable that we want to build them up again in the 21st Century..
Ha and you think socialism is an ideal dream.
Take a long good look round the world and tell me the future is without borders.
Fuck me in some places not only is it a fictitious line but it's a ruddy great wall too!
I don't disagree but it is division and borders that cause discontent and ultimately war. It is very idealistic and not really fitting with my generally right wing _iews. A world without borders would be a wonderful place. I just think what I think, I don't wear any colour of rosette..You so know how the formation of the US ended and was reborn don't you.
They lost more people in that civil than ww1,ww2, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Korea, Iraq and the Spanish war combined.
It divided them for years and to an extent still does today.
And that was states that shared a friggin language. You want 300 years of that for a formation of a borderless super state where your free to work anywhere...
Look at the US it doesn't work and will never work and will end in a bloody civil war..... You've been warned
Heres a thought on this, perhaps Florida could set up their own Independence party
They could be called
FLIP
Sorry, could resist "They could then form a coalition with the Florida opposition party. | |||
" UKIP will never govern but you need parties like them to make the others listen to the voters concerns That's what they said about the Nazi party in 1930's Germany... I would love to know how many threads have Nazi references. Im surprised that Fabio's cereal thread never got one! ". People are obsessed with them, as they make the best film baddies , plus they had all the coolest costumes!.
A cereal Nazi? is that possible, although I demand that kibs salutes me while I'm making toast | |||
The various nation states want us to fight against this, as UKIP is doing, but that's only because it's in their interests to keep hold of 100% of the power. The people, and the business community, and technology is inevitably moving us, thankfully, in the other direction... towards inclusive globalism and ethical localism | |||
