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Camerons latest policy to remove peoples right to a council home for life.
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"I said: "just a few points I would like to clear up. 1/ spending money on public works (hospitals, schools, roads and the like) stimulates the private sector and creates private sector jobs. that is of course provided contracts are given to UK companies. Conversely cutting investment in the public sector has the opposite effect on the private sector. this same rule applies to the armed forces too. that is why a Siege economy is so strong. If you want a perfect example of a modern siege economy look at china. Of course we will not use this method to sort out our economic problems because it leads to a surfeit of jobs and then workers can demand better pay and conditions which cuts the profits of the super rich (they are the ones who own the Tory politicians)." Wishy said: A siege economy is all well and good in principal but China has a population of 1.3bn and if it didn't pursue such a drastic plan of action it would soon find itself entrenched in another revolution. We don't have anywhere near that number of people and unemployment in this country is still only 2.5m - a mere 4% of our total population. There are enough people wroking and paying tax to sustain our fragile economy as long as the currect peasures are taken now - and a siege economy should be our last resort. Cutting unneccessary expenditure should be the first measure to take and cutting out waste should go hand in hand with that. If it is then discovered that further measures are needed then there are other areas to look at before blanket austerity measures are required. Simply creating jobs that aren't there is a false economy because sooner or later these 'ghost' employees will be made redundant which means redundancy payments, increased unemployment figures and additional burden on the state for support. Plus, not all of these 'ghost' workers will be in low paid jobs, some wiull be in higher management with nice fat public pensions that Joe Public has to foot the bill for. I said: 2/ The ridiculous increase in management and admin in the NHS is another legacy of the last Tory government. By making trusts and having them compete in an internal market with private companies also being able to bid for work, they added layers of management and ensured that where one regional department had been able to manage each medical specialty we now have a system where each trust has to have its own set of bean counters. Of course Wishy will say thats not true and even if it was its in the past and its all down to my fixation on Thatcher! Wishy Said: I would very much appreciate it if you didn't put words into my mouth, I am quite capable of speaking my own mind. Your arguments are always weighted and never impartial - nor abject, as you stated earlier on this thread. I said: 3/ The first thing the Tories did on gaining power is to effectively introduce the same system to our education system. I just wonder how that will develop over the years, Oh I know, just like the NHS Again I am sure that Wishy will say that there is no proof that this will happen." Wishy said: Ditto to my above comment. I said: 4/ The comment about New Labour not being for the worker is in my view true, however compared to the ultra right wing anti all but the super rich Tories it is Utopian in its outlook." Wishy said: Millions of British voters would disagree with you there. And we're not all super-rich. The coalition has already begun demonstrating to the general public, who placed their trust in them, that their trust was not misplaced. The rich are being hit just as hard as the poor, although I concede that the poor feel it more keenly. I said: " The real shame is that the majority of the British people seem to be blind to exactly how fascist our country has become. Fact is we have come by degrees to live in a police state, and shortly we will either have starving homeless on all our streets or slave Labour camps (although they will not be called that) for those made destitute by this present lot of Tory thieves. Not sure how Wishy will deny what I have said here, maybe he will just deny it." Wishy said: You really have lost the plot if you seriously believe the things you've stated above. If you had any credence as a political commentator before then I'm afraid you've just lost it and are up there on the same platform as David Icke! " I said: Finally Wishy said "If 175,000 jobs will not be lost because the OBR has found a way to save them then where is there fault to be found in saving someone's livelihood?" One question for Wishy, how does reducing the civil service input figures till you get the result you want save jobs?" Wishy said: I'll tell you what. Why don't you post a link to the OBR detailed research into how they came up with the reduced forecast? Let's see what kind of spin you are putting on this issue or if you are simply clutching at straws for any argument that proves your idealogy that the Tories are sitting in Whitehall doing nothing else but plotting how they can come round your house and strip you of everything you own. How about it eh? Let's have some quantifiable FACTS. ...And again, please don't put words into my mouth. A non-partisan argument would be much more preferable." Now I would like to draw attention to one one part in particular: "Wishy said: You really have lost the plot if you seriously believe the things you've stated above. If you had any credence as a political commentator before then I'm afraid you've just lost it and are up there on the same platform as David Icke! " Now I must admit to some surprise as to the speed and the hand fisted way Cameron has started the campaign to convince us all that it is in our interest to do away with council housing. I just wonder if Wishy still thinks I have lost the plot, if he will agree with me that this government needs to be stopped now before it makes millions destitute. | |||
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"I would like to start this thread by quoting part of an earlier thread, it is a post of Wishys in answer to a previous post of mine in the "Cameron and Osborne caught massaging figures and misleading parliament already" thread of 4 weeks ago. (Please forgive my quoting the full post but I don't want to be accused of quoting out of context. I said: "just a few points I would like to clear up. 1/ spending money on public works (hospitals, schools, roads and the like) stimulates the private sector and creates private sector jobs. that is of course provided contracts are given to UK companies. Conversely cutting investment in the public sector has the opposite effect on the private sector. this same rule applies to the armed forces too. that is why a Siege economy is so strong. If you want a perfect example of a modern siege economy look at china. Of course we will not use this method to sort out our economic problems because it leads to a surfeit of jobs and then workers can demand better pay and conditions which cuts the profits of the super rich (they are the ones who own the Tory politicians)." Wishy said: A siege economy is all well and good in principal but China has a population of 1.3bn and if it didn't pursue such a drastic plan of action it would soon find itself entrenched in another revolution. We don't have anywhere near that number of people and unemployment in this country is still only 2.5m - a mere 4% of our total population. There are enough people wroking and paying tax to sustain our fragile economy as long as the currect peasures are taken now - and a siege economy should be our last resort. Cutting unneccessary expenditure should be the first measure to take and cutting out waste should go hand in hand with that. If it is then discovered that further measures are needed then there are other areas to look at before blanket austerity measures are required. Simply creating jobs that aren't there is a false economy because sooner or later these 'ghost' employees will be made redundant which means redundancy payments, increased unemployment figures and additional burden on the state for support. Plus, not all of these 'ghost' workers will be in low paid jobs, some wiull be in higher management with nice fat public pensions that Joe Public has to foot the bill for. I said: 2/ The ridiculous increase in management and admin in the NHS is another legacy of the last Tory government. By making trusts and having them compete in an internal market with private companies also being able to bid for work, they added layers of management and ensured that where one regional department had been able to manage each medical specialty we now have a system where each trust has to have its own set of bean counters. Of course Wishy will say thats not true and even if it was its in the past and its all down to my fixation on Thatcher! Wishy Said: I would very much appreciate it if you didn't put words into my mouth, I am quite capable of speaking my own mind. Your arguments are always weighted and never impartial - nor abject, as you stated earlier on this thread. I said: 3/ The first thing the Tories did on gaining power is to effectively introduce the same system to our education system. I just wonder how that will develop over the years, Oh I know, just like the NHS Again I am sure that Wishy will say that there is no proof that this will happen." Wishy said: Ditto to my above comment. I said: 4/ The comment about New Labour not being for the worker is in my view true, however compared to the ultra right wing anti all but the super rich Tories it is Utopian in its outlook." Wishy said: Millions of British voters would disagree with you there. And we're not all super-rich. The coalition has already begun demonstrating to the general public, who placed their trust in them, that their trust was not misplaced. The rich are being hit just as hard as the poor, although I concede that the poor feel it more keenly. I said: " The real shame is that the majority of the British people seem to be blind to exactly how fascist our country has become. Fact is we have come by degrees to live in a police state, and shortly we will either have starving homeless on all our streets or slave Labour camps (although they will not be called that) for those made destitute by this present lot of Tory thieves. Not sure how Wishy will deny what I have said here, maybe he will just deny it." Wishy said: You really have lost the plot if you seriously believe the things you've stated above. If you had any credence as a political commentator before then I'm afraid you've just lost it and are up there on the same platform as David Icke! " I said: Finally Wishy said "If 175,000 jobs will not be lost because the OBR has found a way to save them then where is there fault to be found in saving someone's livelihood?" One question for Wishy, how does reducing the civil service input figures till you get the result you want save jobs?" Wishy said: I'll tell you what. Why don't you post a link to the OBR detailed research into how they came up with the reduced forecast? Let's see what kind of spin you are putting on this issue or if you are simply clutching at straws for any argument that proves your idealogy that the Tories are sitting in Whitehall doing nothing else but plotting how they can come round your house and strip you of everything you own. How about it eh? Let's have some quantifiable FACTS. ...And again, please don't put words into my mouth. A non-partisan argument would be much more preferable. Now I would like to draw attention to one one part in particular: Wishy said: You really have lost the plot if you seriously believe the things you've stated above. If you had any credence as a political commentator before then I'm afraid you've just lost it and are up there on the same platform as David Icke! Now I must admit to some surprise as to the speed and the hand fisted way Cameron has started the campaign to convince us all that it is in our interest to do away with council housing. I just wonder if Wishy still thinks I have lost the plot, if he will agree with me that this government needs to be stopped now before it makes millions destitute." how to kill a forum post in one easty step ?????  | |||
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"I would like to start this thread by quoting part of an earlier thread, it is a post of Wishys in answer to a previous post of mine in the "Cameron and Osborne caught massaging figures and misleading parliament already" thread of 4 weeks ago. (Please forgive my quoting the full post but I don't want to be accused of quoting out of context. I said: "just a few points I would like to clear up. 1/ spending money on public works (hospitals, schools, roads and the like) stimulates the private sector and creates private sector jobs. that is of course provided contracts are given to UK companies. Conversely cutting investment in the public sector has the opposite effect on the private sector. this same rule applies to the armed forces too. that is why a Siege economy is so strong. If you want a perfect example of a modern siege economy look at china. Of course we will not use this method to sort out our economic problems because it leads to a surfeit of jobs and then workers can demand better pay and conditions which cuts the profits of the super rich (they are the ones who own the Tory politicians)." Wishy said: A siege economy is all well and good in principal but China has a population of 1.3bn and if it didn't pursue such a drastic plan of action it would soon find itself entrenched in another revolution. We don't have anywhere near that number of people and unemployment in this country is still only 2.5m - a mere 4% of our total population. There are enough people wroking and paying tax to sustain our fragile economy as long as the currect peasures are taken now - and a siege economy should be our last resort. Cutting unneccessary expenditure should be the first measure to take and cutting out waste should go hand in hand with that. If it is then discovered that further measures are needed then there are other areas to look at before blanket austerity measures are required. Simply creating jobs that aren't there is a false economy because sooner or later these 'ghost' employees will be made redundant which means redundancy payments, increased unemployment figures and additional burden on the state for support. Plus, not all of these 'ghost' workers will be in low paid jobs, some wiull be in higher management with nice fat public pensions that Joe Public has to foot the bill for. I said: 2/ The ridiculous increase in management and admin in the NHS is another legacy of the last Tory government. By making trusts and having them compete in an internal market with private companies also being able to bid for work, they added layers of management and ensured that where one regional department had been able to manage each medical specialty we now have a system where each trust has to have its own set of bean counters. Of course Wishy will say thats not true and even if it was its in the past and its all down to my fixation on Thatcher! Wishy Said: I would very much appreciate it if you didn't put words into my mouth, I am quite capable of speaking my own mind. Your arguments are always weighted and never impartial - nor abject, as you stated earlier on this thread. I said: 3/ The first thing the Tories did on gaining power is to effectively introduce the same system to our education system. I just wonder how that will develop over the years, Oh I know, just like the NHS Again I am sure that Wishy will say that there is no proof that this will happen." Wishy said: Ditto to my above comment. I said: 4/ The comment about New Labour not being for the worker is in my view true, however compared to the ultra right wing anti all but the super rich Tories it is Utopian in its outlook." Wishy said: Millions of British voters would disagree with you there. And we're not all super-rich. The coalition has already begun demonstrating to the general public, who placed their trust in them, that their trust was not misplaced. The rich are being hit just as hard as the poor, although I concede that the poor feel it more keenly. I said: " The real shame is that the majority of the British people seem to be blind to exactly how fascist our country has become. Fact is we have come by degrees to live in a police state, and shortly we will either have starving homeless on all our streets or slave Labour camps (although they will not be called that) for those made destitute by this present lot of Tory thieves. Not sure how Wishy will deny what I have said here, maybe he will just deny it." Wishy said: You really have lost the plot if you seriously believe the things you've stated above. If you had any credence as a political commentator before then I'm afraid you've just lost it and are up there on the same platform as David Icke! " I said: Finally Wishy said "If 175,000 jobs will not be lost because the OBR has found a way to save them then where is there fault to be found in saving someone's livelihood?" One question for Wishy, how does reducing the civil service input figures till you get the result you want save jobs?" Wishy said: I'll tell you what. Why don't you post a link to the OBR detailed research into how they came up with the reduced forecast? Let's see what kind of spin you are putting on this issue or if you are simply clutching at straws for any argument that proves your idealogy that the Tories are sitting in Whitehall doing nothing else but plotting how they can come round your house and strip you of everything you own. How about it eh? Let's have some quantifiable FACTS. ...And again, please don't put words into my mouth. A non-partisan argument would be much more preferable. Now I would like to draw attention to one one part in particular: Wishy said: You really have lost the plot if you seriously believe the things you've stated above. If you had any credence as a political commentator before then I'm afraid you've just lost it and are up there on the same platform as David Icke! Now I must admit to some surprise as to the speed and the hand fisted way Cameron has started the campaign to convince us all that it is in our interest to do away with council housing. I just wonder if Wishy still thinks I have lost the plot, if he will agree with me that this government needs to be stopped now before it makes millions destitute." It is not camerans fault but mine yours and everybody who is part of the public. We spend spend spend on things we don't need don't have the money for. Change the behaviours of the public attitude to what money is worth and u may relax about the government causing problems i think it is high time to change how society is considered. two thousand years have passed. Or maybe that is the point. Society can't be perfect. Just like good or bad, u can't have one without the other.  | |||
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"firstly, let's not forget this is a coalition government so the liberals shoulder some of the responsibility here too. personally i see nothing morally wrong with the suggestion that tenancies be subject to review. people's circumstances change all the time. why should people in need be told they have years to wait before a house becomes available having walked past or through the council estate and seen all the bmw's, jaguars etc parked outside. good on the government for trying to do something to help the more needy in nts society" You being a Scott really surprise me. I guess that as the idea of putting everyone into housing owned by private landlords is OK with you. I also take it you have no issue with the highland clearances of the 18th and 19th centuries or with the tenements in Glasgow and Edinburgh and every other UK city that survived up till the late 60's. As for your comment about people in need, surly the answer is to increase the council housing stock. As for the other comments by the pro Tory lobby, I will point out that those who have the income to do it are able to buy their council house (one of Thatchers ideas) so the only people who will be getting evicted are those who cant afford to buy. I will also point out that the reason that we used to have so many council houses was because of the disgraceful behavior of landlords like Peter Rachman (look him up if you dont know his name) after the Tories past the rent act in the mid 50's. | |||
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" Now I must admit to some surprise as to the speed and the hand fisted way Cameron has started the campaign to convince us all that it is in our interest to do away with council housing. I just wonder if Wishy still thinks I have lost the plot, if he will agree with me that this government needs to be stopped now before it makes millions destitute." I stated on a previous thread that I had no wish to debate with you any further as eventually you will resort to abuse and I just can't be arsed tbh. Cameron may be right or he may be wrong, only time will tell, but there are millions already facing a very bleak future because of the policies of the previous government so if vast swathes of the population are to become destitute of the next couple of years it will NOT be down to the fact that they can't get a house as people ALWAYS find somewhere to live. This is my last post on this thread as, like I said above, I just can't be bothered to 'debate' with you anymore. | |||
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"............ Amazed by some responses on here, my grandmother lives in a council house, she's paid her rent for a good 60 years which has probably paid for the house many times over, but hey, we'll chuck her out so we can house a family on benefits, and don't say it wouldn't happen because we all know it will." Even the Tories aren't daft enought to try to make this retrospective. It'll only apply to future tenancies IF their Fid Dem lap dogs survive the party conference season (looking increasingly unlikely). | |||
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" Now I must admit to some surprise as to the speed and the hand fisted way Cameron has started the campaign to convince us all that it is in our interest to do away with council housing. I just wonder if Wishy still thinks I have lost the plot, if he will agree with me that this government needs to be stopped now before it makes millions destitute. I stated on a previous thread that I had no wish to debate with you any further as eventually you will resort to abuse and I just can't be arsed tbh. Cameron may be right or he may be wrong, only time will tell, but there are millions already facing a very bleak future because of the policies of the previous government so if vast swathes of the population are to become destitute of the next couple of years it will NOT be down to the fact that they can't get a house as people ALWAYS find somewhere to live. This is my last post on this thread as, like I said above, I just can't be bothered to 'debate' with you anymore." i think you make a very valid point there some people want to grind and grind and grind they will bring up things you said 35 years ago and grind and grind some more its probably got a medical name , something like compulsive obsesive disorder instead of a few mates in the pub talking about a few matters of a political nature and enjoying the cut and thrust , one of them slopes off and returns with copies of hansard going back 48 years ! i cant be arsed with that either  | |||
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" I stated on a previous thread that I had no wish to debate with you any further as eventually you will resort to abuse and I just can't be arsed tbh. Cameron may be right or he may be wrong, only time will tell, but there are millions already facing a very bleak future because of the policies of the previous government so if vast swathes of the population are to become destitute of the next couple of years it will NOT be down to the fact that they can't get a house as people ALWAYS find somewhere to live. This is my last post on this thread as, like I said above, I just can't be bothered to 'debate' with you anymore. i think you make a very valid point there some people want to grind and grind and grind they will bring up things you said 35 years ago and grind and grind some more its probably got a medical name , something like compulsive obsesive disorder instead of a few mates in the pub talking about a few matters of a political nature and enjoying the cut and thrust , one of them slopes off and returns with copies of hansard going back 48 years ! i cant be arsed with that either "Well there we have it, I quote what I said 3 weeks ago that was treated with derision, I had lost the plot, and nothing like that would ever happen, now Wishy "cant be "arsed" to answer me. But at least he can now see the writing on the Tory wall, however when as a direct result of the policies that they are implementing we have millions destitute it will not be the fault of the Tories, because Wishy and the Tories say so! Then we get _uton_couple (are you in the UK at the moment?) who live in Spain for part of the year and complain about the Muslims where they live in Luton and their fear of going out agreeing with Wishy. Question to l_c, am I correct in thinking you own or have owned an ex council house? And if so how do you justify having lined your pockets at the expense of those less fortunate than yourself? TAV said: "Even the Tories aren't daft enought to try to make this retrospective. It'll only apply to future tenancies IF their Fid Dem lap dogs survive the party conference season (looking increasingly unlikely)." Haven't you (and others) picked up on the fact that by the time the libdems decide to break away from "call me dave" that the Tories will be in office till May 2015, with no way of removing them short of murder or revolution? And before anyone tells me I am wrong remember that under the fixed term legislation being drawn up and going through parliament at the moment at least 55% of parliament must vote down a government and that is 358 votes required and even if every non Tory votes them down its still not enough! Stu said: "i have been jobless for 2 years and living off my savings because the state tells me i'm not entitled to any help. if i still have no paid work within next few months then i face losing my house. why build more new housing stock just so we can keep people in council houses who can, where their circumstances have changed, afford to sent privately thus freeing up a house for someone who needs it? have no idea why the highland clearances have any relevance to the Government's decision any more than alexander the great's incursions into persia?" I am sorry to hear about your difficulties and I hope that you do not loose your home. However in answer to your question about why we should build more council homes, there are at least 2 overriding reasons why we should build. 1. To protect venerable people from unscrupulous private landlords, and supply good quality well maintained affordable housing to those that require it (maybe you soon). 2. To employ 100s of thousands building homes, making and supplying the materials required and in that way to reduce unemployment. As for the highland clearances and rachmanism, they were both the result of Tory policy in regard to private rented property and making profit! If you do not believe me do some reading about the highland clearances and the subsequent seeding of Ireland with the destitute Scots, the pale laws that were passed in order to placate the Scots in Ireland and follow the time-line of cause and effect forward to today. Then look up the 1956/7 Tory Rent Act and its results in rachmanism, then compare that to what Thatcher did in the 80s and what this shit is now proposing. It does not take a genius to see that it is the same policy again and again, and the results are always the same, a few rich Tories line their pockets at the expense of the country that they clam to be protecting while the poor are trampled under. | |||
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"while in principal moving people out of innapropriate housing " As far as I know all councils have this power already, however for a council to move a person out of a home they must have an apropriate home to move them into in the same area. Again as far as I know, the reason that you have single people living in 3/4 bedroom homes is because the councils do not have the single bed homes to move them into. | |||
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"ffs will you all stop qouting it's clogging up my glasses....lol The solutions: 1. I said.. He said... The forums are a place whilst to air your views, not a podium to voice your political or infact Religious/Sexual preferences that may inturn offend others! 2. Ireland has an abundance of vacant properties thanks to mis-management by the Major Banks, the government have now bailed them out. As EU Citizens your entitled to move here with no loss of benefits. Explore... Ps, not a bad swinging scene here, either...... Paddy x" the voice of reason thank you xx | |||
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"ffs will you all stop qouting it's clogging up my glasses....lol The solutions: 1. I said.. He said... The forums are a place whilst to air your views, not a podium to voice your political or infact Religious/Sexual preferences that may inturn offend others! 2. Ireland has an abundance of vacant properties thanks to mis-management by the Major Banks, the government have now bailed them out. As EU Citizens your entitled to move here with no loss of benefits. Explore... Ps, not a bad swinging scene here, either...... Paddy x" I wish i could move back to Ireland but my work is here. however if I do get the chance to move back it will be to Connemara or very close (I have wonderful memories of the time I lived in Oranmore as a small child and the views over Galway bay from my bedroom window). As for your other comments, are we not condemning ourselves to repeat the mistakes of the past if we ignore history just because it upsets people. Sorry for quoting you. | |||
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" And yet you appear, on a point of political principle, to knock Cameron's effots to assist other people to become more flexible and mobile in their search for employment opportunites. The whole western ( asset rich? ) world, was built upon the mobilty of hard working people. Sad to say that the reality is that we won't be able to maintain it never mind grow but that's a whole different topic. Sad to say however that the west and Cameron are set to fail anyway." I was under the impression that the our asset rich world was based on the Victorian industrialist family firms investing in their own communities! As seen in the Victorian houses, factories, mills and public building that still fill our cities and towns. I was also under the impression that the reason why we are sliding further down the pan and into penury is because increasingly we allow greedy executive directors put in place by greedier banks to use our wealth to buy and then transfer our industry to 3rd world and emerging economies in the name of profit. This form of theft has now gained such popularity that they are now even buying our sports teams. | |||
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"my god this is a long winded thread. already within the coalition,cracks are appearing.this govt,wont be in power long enough,to carry out 90% of thier policies/ideas.wait untill next year,and see what the new labour govt,are offering.you know its going to happen." At the risk of being accused of repeating myself, did you miss this? "Haven't you (and others) picked up on the fact that by the time the libdems decide to break away from "call me dave" that the Tories will be in office till May 2015, with no way of removing them short of murder or revolution? And before anyone tells me I am wrong remember that under the fixed term legislation being drawn up and going through parliament at the moment at least 55% of parliament must vote down a government and that is 358 votes required and even if every non Tory votes them down its still not enough!" They are here till May 2015, and it is their stated aim to pull all the troops out of Afghanistan for that date, of course what they have not said is and then use that to ride into a second term in power (just as Thatcher used the troops to keep power in 83). | |||
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"my god this is a long winded thread. already within the coalition,cracks are appearing.this govt,wont be in power long enough,to carry out 90% of thier policies/ideas.wait untill next year,and see what the new labour govt,are offering.you know its going to happen. At the risk of being accused of repeating myself, did you miss this? Haven't you (and others) picked up on the fact that by the time the libdems decide to break away from "call me dave" that the Tories will be in office till May 2015, with no way of removing them short of murder or revolution? And before anyone tells me I am wrong remember that under the fixed term legislation being drawn up and going through parliament at the moment at least 55% of parliament must vote down a government and that is 358 votes required and even if every non Tory votes them down its still not enough! They are here till May 2015, and it is their stated aim to pull all the troops out of Afghanistan for that date, of course what they have not said is and then use that to ride into a second term in power (just as Thatcher used the troops to keep power in 83). " forgive me,i didnt read the whole thread.war and peace,is shorter.serious question,how can a party govern.who cannot win a majority,in parlaiment. | |||
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"Having lived in Luton from the age of 4 up until 3 years ago I can confirm that everything _uton_couple said about it being an unsafe place is 100% correct. The place is awash with crime and no-go areas and I am glad to be out of it. I was dragged up on one if it's fiercest council estates. My parents bought their council house under the right to buy scheme but until they qualified to do so they had to move us four times (due to our house needed by someone else - hey there's a shock eh, 1969, Wilson's Labour Govt.) - but eventually we settled in a not-so-hard part of the town (Lewsey Farm) and my siblings and I got used to coming home from school intact, with all our own clothes, and books that hadn't been taken from us, pee'd on, and returned with much derision from the older boys. (a smig grin my brother wiped from their faces a few years later in a pub in town one night, I'll say no more). So Will, anytime you want to 'debate' working class roots and how one is driven to better themselves then I'm your man. But, if you think the world should be run on fairness and equality for all then you are living in Chairman Mao's little red book of ha-ha-fooled-you-didnt-I?" Fuck me wishy i feel posh now! | |||
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"my god this is a long winded thread. already within the coalition,cracks are appearing.this govt,wont be in power long enough,to carry out 90% of thier policies/ideas.wait untill next year,and see what the new labour govt,are offering.you know its going to happen. At the risk of being accused of repeating myself, did you miss this? Haven't you (and others) picked up on the fact that by the time the libdems decide to break away from "call me dave" that the Tories will be in office till May 2015, with no way of removing them short of murder or revolution? And before anyone tells me I am wrong remember that under the fixed term legislation being drawn up and going through parliament at the moment at least 55% of parliament must vote down a government and that is 358 votes required and even if every non Tory votes them down its still not enough! They are here till May 2015, and it is their stated aim to pull all the troops out of Afghanistan for that date, of course what they have not said is and then use that to ride into a second term in power (just as Thatcher used the troops to keep power in 83). " well theres a lesson to be learned about politics when you make a slur about a person by suggesting ( in detail ) how they lined there pockets by selling a council house and are proved to be wrong you look a right plonker it gets worse the longer you stay silent and say nothing its just like shouting FIRE in a busy shopping arcade when there isnt one everyone looks round at you and they wait for the men in white coats to appear and the longer they take to get there the more of a nana you feel as they stare at you in deathly silence | |||
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" And yet you appear, on a point of political principle, to knock Cameron's effots to assist other people to become more flexible and mobile in their search for employment opportunites. The whole western ( asset rich? ) world, was built upon the mobilty of hard working people. Sad to say that the reality is that we won't be able to maintain it never mind grow but that's a whole different topic. Sad to say however that the west and Cameron are set to fail anyway. I was under the impression that the our asset rich world was based on the Victorian industrialist family firms investing in their own communities! As seen in the Victorian houses, factories, mills and public building that still fill our cities and towns. I was also under the impression that the reason why we are sliding further down the pan and into penury is because increasingly we allow greedy executive directors put in place by greedier banks to use our wealth to buy and then transfer our industry to 3rd world and emerging economies in the name of profit. This form of theft has now gained such popularity that they are now even buying our sports teams." i would lol about all day,  mao if it wasn't not so funny.
just who do you think built Industrial and Victorian Britain? Hordes of migrant workers, moving to where the work was.
As to the reasons, consider this. Yes, there are greedy "executives" and yes to a degree they "steal" wealth from such as our pension pots.
Oh, reminds me, on that note the biggest "thief" of all was G.Brown.
Are you seriously suggesting that the relatively few executives "stole" from the millions of pigate folks who borrowed to fund a life on the never never? Reality records that far from steal, they simply fostered and fed the demand for ready credit snapped up by the masses in their millions. Hardly theft. | |||
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There'll be others,
Hardly sources of finance "stolen" from the masses.
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"it is rife with racial hatred directed at west indians , irish , etc , and people that look like me" So you are not Caucasian or Negroid, so what are you, Asian maybe? "and having had bricks through my window , threats of having my house burnt down" Could that be because of your obviously bigoted attitude? " been caught in race riots on my way home from sainsburys , coupled with the fact its not safe to go out after dark , what do you expect me to do about it ?" Maybe start by taking a long look at yourself in a mirror. "say nothing and let everyone think its all coming up roses ? dream on pal by the way i have never lived in a council house in my life and for you to suggest i have bought one and sold it on to line my pockets is something in political circles called smear tactics " My questions to you were based on what you have posted in numerous political threads. If it offends you that I have drawn wrong conclusions from the totality of those posts maybe the fault is with your posts and not with me. Now for the record I am sure you are not Asian but are in fact Caucasian English, however I have deliberately drawn attention to your latest overtly racist comments to maybe open your eyes to what you have said, whether you meant it or not. "you will have to get up early in the morning to try flim flam people with those pathetic tactics jesus christ give me some credit , you must think im a carrot cruncher just come up from the country " No you have none of the grace of country people, but I do think that you should read your posts and engage your brain before posting if you do not want people like me to point out exactly what you are saying. | |||
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"Having lived in Luton from the age of 4 up until 3 years ago I can confirm that everything _uton_couple said about it being an unsafe place is 100% correct. The place is awash with crime and no-go areas and I am glad to be out of it. I was dragged up on one if it's fiercest council estates. My parents bought their council house under the right to buy scheme but until they qualified to do so they had to move us four times (due to our house needed by someone else - hey there's a shock eh, 1969, Wilson's Labour Govt.) - but eventually we settled in a not-so-hard part of the town (Lewsey Farm) and my siblings and I got used to coming home from school intact, with all our own clothes, and books that hadn't been taken from us, pee'd on, and returned with much derision from the older boys. (a smig grin my brother wiped from their faces a few years later in a pub in town one night, I'll say no more). So Will, anytime you want to 'debate' working class roots and how one is driven to better themselves then I'm your man. But, if you think the world should be run on fairness and equality for all then you are living in Chairman Mao's little red book of ha-ha-fooled-you-didnt-I?" theres a few people on here that would get the shock of there life if they woke up one morning and looked out of the window to see the bedfordshire yeomen pub they would then get a bigger one when walking to the town god help them , they havent a fecking clue | |||
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"April 1982 " Even more pedantic : Exits in pedantic mode. | |||
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"it is rife with racial hatred directed at west indians , irish , etc , and people that look like me So you are not Caucasian or Negroid, so what are you, Asian maybe? and having had bricks through my window , threats of having my house burnt down Could that be because of your obviously bigoted attitude? been caught in race riots on my way home from sainsburys , coupled with the fact its not safe to go out after dark , what do you expect me to do about it ? Maybe start by taking a long look at yourself in a mirror. say nothing and let everyone think its all coming up roses ? dream on pal by the way i have never lived in a council house in my life and for you to suggest i have bought one and sold it on to line my pockets is something in political circles called smear tactics My questions to you were based on what you have posted in numerous political threads. If it offends you that I have drawn wrong conclusions from the totality of those posts maybe the fault is with your posts and not with me. Now for the record I am sure you are not Asian but are in fact Caucasian English, however I have deliberately drawn attention to your latest overtly racist comments to maybe open your eyes to what you have said, whether you meant it or not. you will have to get up early in the morning to try flim flam people with those pathetic tactics jesus christ give me some credit , you must think im a carrot cruncher just come up from the country No you have none of the grace of country people, but I do think that you should read your posts and engage your brain before posting if you do not want people like me to point out exactly what you are saying. " i could ask you to show me what thread it was where i said i live in a council house but i wont cos i didnt looking at the things you have said , it is very easy to spot EXACTLY what you are you my friend are a WIND UP MERCHANT when trying to wind me up youve got one problem , and here it is I AINT GONNA BITE so its goodbye and goodnight you will wait till hell freezes over to ever get a reply from me ever again | |||
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so chill people, politics and religeon always bring out the best and the worst in us all.
ps) labour looked at this idea as well and when they saw how electorally suicidal it was....decided ...errrr no lets not ...4 million + floating voters with a common cause would be a meltdown for any party | |||
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"First of I am in council property I have been for 12 years in a two bed flat with my two children I cant even get on the waiting list to get a house until I get a passport and prove that im english although I have all the right paperwork and my tenancy agreement. I have worked and paid all my rent in that time. Now im going to go back to immigration How can they get a house and I cant. " Tell them you are a muslim but you refuse to have anal sex. They will be throwing houses at you just to get rid of you. | |||
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"First of I am in council property I have been for 12 years in a two bed flat with my two children I cant even get on the waiting list to get a house until I get a passport and prove that im english although I have all the right paperwork and my tenancy agreement. I have worked and paid all my rent in that time. Now im going to go back to immigration How can they get a house and I cant. " its a difficult one, i have a friend that had lived in the same house all her life, she was born there, lived with her mum and dad as a child there, her mother died there, she looked after her father as an adult there and when he died because the house was in the dads name the council threw her out and moved a polish family in, even tho she had paid the rent and council tax on the house for at least the past 20 years she had no rights to it at all, and when she asked why they took rent off her for all them years if its not her home they had no answer to that how is that right? | |||
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"First of I am in council property I have been for 12 years in a two bed flat with my two children I cant even get on the waiting list to get a house until I get a passport and prove that im english although I have all the right paperwork and my tenancy agreement. I have worked and paid all my rent in that time. Now im going to go back to immigration How can they get a house and I cant. its a difficult one, i have a friend that had lived in the same house all her life, she was born there, lived with her mum and dad as a child there, her mother died there, she looked after her father as an adult there and when he died because the house was in the dads name the council threw her out and moved a polish family in, even tho she had paid the rent and council tax on the house for at least the past 20 years she had no rights to it at all, and when she asked why they took rent off her for all them years if its not her home they had no answer to that how is that right?" No not right at all thats disgusting. The house should of been put in her name | |||
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"First of I am in council property I have been for 12 years in a two bed flat with my two children I cant even get on the waiting list to get a house until I get a passport and prove that im english although I have all the right paperwork and my tenancy agreement. I have worked and paid all my rent in that time. Now im going to go back to immigration How can they get a house and I cant. its a difficult one, i have a friend that had lived in the same house all her life, she was born there, lived with her mum and dad as a child there, her mother died there, she looked after her father as an adult there and when he died because the house was in the dads name the council threw her out and moved a polish family in, even tho she had paid the rent and council tax on the house for at least the past 20 years she had no rights to it at all, and when she asked why they took rent off her for all them years if its not her home they had no answer to that how is that right?" I believe that it was the 1988 rent act that removed the right for a council property to be passed from one generation to another by restricting the number of times pre 1988 council or an assured tenancy could be passed on and who it could be passed to. You might like to note that it was the same act that stopped councils from reinvesting the monies raised from the sale of council home in new housing stock and transfered the rights to direct the use of the money so raised to central government. Another piece of classic Tory legislation. | |||
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"it is rife with racial hatred directed at west indians , irish , etc , and people that look like me So you are not Caucasian or Negroid, so what are you, Asian maybe? and having had bricks through my window , threats of having my house burnt down Could that be because of your obviously bigoted attitude? been caught in race riots on my way home from sainsburys , coupled with the fact its not safe to go out after dark , what do you expect me to do about it ? Maybe start by taking a long look at yourself in a mirror. say nothing and let everyone think its all coming up roses ? dream on pal by the way i have never lived in a council house in my life and for you to suggest i have bought one and sold it on to line my pockets is something in political circles called smear tactics My questions to you were based on what you have posted in numerous political threads. If it offends you that I have drawn wrong conclusions from the totality of those posts maybe the fault is with your posts and not with me. Now for the record I am sure you are not Asian but are in fact Caucasian English, however I have deliberately drawn attention to your latest overtly racist comments to maybe open your eyes to what you have said, whether you meant it or not. you will have to get up early in the morning to try flim flam people with those pathetic tactics jesus christ give me some credit , you must think im a carrot cruncher just come up from the country No you have none of the grace of country people, but I do think that you should read your posts and engage your brain before posting if you do not want people like me to point out exactly what you are saying. " And i think that you should stop attacking and insulting people who dare not to agree with you If you do not agree with the obvious majority of views then that of course is your right But to stoop to levels of insults,innuendos and darn right rudeness at times is not on It has occurred to me that you may just be a wind up merchant that derives pleasure from this If you are then that in its self is sad If not then i feel sorry for someone who has such an obvious dislike of people who dare not to agree with anything you say This is my final word on any of your political threads as it is nigh impossible for me to continue reading them whilst you continue to attack people I'm obviously not aware of the reasons for your underlying hatred of all things political But wish you luck in your search for the perfect governing party Craig | |||
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"it is rife with racial hatred directed at west indians , irish , etc , and people that look like me So you are not Caucasian or Negroid, so what are you, Asian maybe? and having had bricks through my window , threats of having my house burnt down Could that be because of your obviously bigoted attitude? been caught in race riots on my way home from sainsburys , coupled with the fact its not safe to go out after dark , what do you expect me to do about it ? Maybe start by taking a long look at yourself in a mirror. say nothing and let everyone think its all coming up roses ? dream on pal by the way i have never lived in a council house in my life and for you to suggest i have bought one and sold it on to line my pockets is something in political circles called smear tactics My questions to you were based on what you have posted in numerous political threads. If it offends you that I have drawn wrong conclusions from the totality of those posts maybe the fault is with your posts and not with me. Now for the record I am sure you are not Asian but are in fact Caucasian English, however I have deliberately drawn attention to your latest overtly racist comments to maybe open your eyes to what you have said, whether you meant it or not. you will have to get up early in the morning to try flim flam people with those pathetic tactics jesus christ give me some credit , you must think im a carrot cruncher just come up from the country No you have none of the grace of country people, but I do think that you should read your posts and engage your brain before posting if you do not want people like me to point out exactly what you are saying. And i think that you should stop attacking and insulting people who dare not to agree with you If you do not agree with the obvious majority of views then that of course is your right But to stoop to levels of insults,innuendos and darn right rudeness at times is not on It has occurred to me that you may just be a wind up merchant that derives pleasure from this If you are then that in its self is sad If not then i feel sorry for someone who has such an obvious dislike of people who dare not to agree with anything you say This is my final word on any of your political threads as it is nigh impossible for me to continue reading them whilst you continue to attack people I'm obviously not aware of the reasons for your underlying hatred of all things political But wish you luck in your search for the perfect governing party Craig" spot on with your assessment craig....couldn't agree more | |||
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" And i think that you should stop attacking and insulting people who dare not to agree with you If you do not agree with the obvious majority of views then that of course is your right But to stoop to levels of insults,innuendos and darn right rudeness at times is not on It has occurred to me that you may just be a wind up merchant that derives pleasure from this If you are then that in its self is sad If not then i feel sorry for someone who has such an obvious dislike of people who dare not to agree with anything you say This is my final word on any of your political threads as it is nigh impossible for me to continue reading them whilst you continue to attack people I'm obviously not aware of the reasons for your underlying hatred of all things political But wish you luck in your search for the perfect governing party Craig" I couldn't have worded it better myself Soapy. To his mind the Tories are the architects of all things evil and Labour are his Knights Templar. It's a view of the world based upon delusion and a stubborn refusal the see things for how they really are. David Cameron will prove himself to be one of the best leaders this country has ever had and I will stick my neck out to say that the next general election will see him sweep to power on a majority never before enjoyed by a sitting prime minister. He said he'd sort this country out and he's already started doing it. The Banks are back in business, house prices are rising again and he's telling foreign governments to stop fucking about and back up what they say they're going to do. I like that king of straight talking. | |||
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