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John Major's speech in Germany
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"I haven't read it all, but it looks like the start of the first sensible debate on the impact of immigration in the UK. The issue being that the UK population has grown by 7% in the last decade, an unprecedented modern era rise without the associated investment in infrastructure in hospitals, education and transport. To soundbite, the UK is full and he expects social unrest and an exit from the EU if some sensible constraints are not imposed or a huge investment from the EU into the UK to support the population growth." He was a much better prime minister than he ever got credit for ! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I haven't read it all, but it looks like the start of the first sensible debate on the impact of immigration in the UK. The issue being that the UK population has grown by 7% in the last decade, an unprecedented modern era rise without the associated investment in infrastructure in hospitals, education and transport. To soundbite, the UK is full and he expects social unrest and an exit from the EU if some sensible constraints are not imposed or a huge investment from the EU into the UK to support the population growth." He's right Sarah x | |||
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"Uh...the UK is full?!? "in comparison with the rest of the EU states per square kilometer of surface area per head of population, Yeah! | |||
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"Uh...the UK is full?!? in comparison with the rest of the EU states per square kilometer of surface area per head of population, Yeah!"Build up-or build down. Whichever; there is always room. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Uh...the UK is full?!? "his point is that the growth in population hasn't been accompanied with the appropriate investment, therefore putting huge stress on an over burdened infrastructure which may take years to catch up. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Uh...the UK is full?!? in comparison with the rest of the EU states per square kilometer of surface area per head of population, Yeah!
Build up-or build down. Whichever; there is always room."are you prepared to fund all this massive building work through extra Taxes. Gimp | |||
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"Uh...the UK is full?!? in comparison with the rest of the EU states per square kilometer of surface area per head of population, Yeah!"can you point to the statistic that confirms that statement? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Uh...the UK is full?!? in comparison with the rest of the EU states per square kilometer of surface area per head of population, Yeah!
Build up-or build down. Whichever; there is always room."Oh good idea, we can start in Lincoln 
Can just see the headlines now
UK DIGS CAVES TO HOUSE FOREIGN WORKERS | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Uh...the UK is full?!? in comparison with the rest of the EU states per square kilometer of surface area per head of population, Yeah!
Build up-or build down. Whichever; there is always room.
are you prepared to fund all this massive building work through extra Taxes.
Gimp"Well seeing as the government is never transparent about what my and everyone else's taxes are actually spent on, how would I know? Funny how people who complain about taxes going on benefits for the needy and the NHS (y'know, things that actually help people) don't seem to mind it being spent on trident missiles. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Uh...the UK is full?!? in comparison with the rest of the EU states per square kilometer of surface area per head of population, Yeah!
Build up-or build down. Whichever; there is always room.
are you prepared to fund all this massive building work through extra Taxes.
Gimp
Well seeing as the government is never transparent about what my and everyone else's taxes are actually spent on, how would I know?
Funny how people who complain about taxes going on benefits for the needy and the NHS (y'know, things that actually help people) don't seem to mind it being spent on trident missiles."I dont think anyone has mentioned the NHS or Benefits, Seems to me that the massive cost of actually building hundreds of more Tower Blocks or the Enormous caverns needed would cost Billions, Who Pays? Gimp | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Uh...the UK is full?!? in comparison with the rest of the EU states per square kilometer of surface area per head of population, Yeah!
Build up-or build down. Whichever; there is always room.
Oh good idea, we can start in Lincoln
Can just see the headlines now
UK DIGS CAVES TO HOUSE FOREIGN WORKERS"Nah; I'd much rather my hard-earned money was spent on another war where we essentially bomb pre-industrial shepherds in order to maintain the illusion that Britain is still a global superpower. Guess we Brits didn't have an issue when we were invading said 'foreigners' home turf and populating them with British colonists and convicts to the detriment of the local populations....cough Australia cough South Africa cough New Zealand cough USA and Canada etc etc | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I haven't read it all, but it looks like the start of the first sensible debate on the impact of immigration in the UK. The issue being that the UK population has grown by 7% in the last decade, an unprecedented modern era rise without the associated investment in infrastructure in hospitals, education and transport. To soundbite, the UK is full and he expects social unrest and an exit from the EU if some sensible constraints are not imposed or a huge investment from the EU into the UK to support the population growth." Good for john major, someone talking sense for once.  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Uh...the UK is full?!? in comparison with the rest of the EU states per square kilometer of surface area per head of population, Yeah!
Build up-or build down. Whichever; there is always room.
are you prepared to fund all this massive building work through extra Taxes.
Gimp
Well seeing as the government is never transparent about what my and everyone else's taxes are actually spent on, how would I know?
Funny how people who complain about taxes going on benefits for the needy and the NHS (y'know, things that actually help people) don't seem to mind it being spent on trident missiles.
I dont think anyone has mentioned the NHS or Benefits, Seems to me that the massive cost of actually building hundreds of more Tower Blocks or the Enormous caverns needed would cost Billions, Who Pays?
Gimp"But the argument 'there isn't enough room for all these people who are slightly different from us' has been trundled out to justify xenophobia towards minorities for years, with little justification. To wit: Hitler's policy of 'lebensraum' or 'breathing room'. Weimar Germany was hardly overcrowded, and neither is the UK in 2014. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Uh...the UK is full?!? in comparison with the rest of the EU states per square kilometer of surface area per head of population, Yeah!
Build up-or build down. Whichever; there is always room.
are you prepared to fund all this massive building work through extra Taxes.
Gimp
Well seeing as the government is never transparent about what my and everyone else's taxes are actually spent on, how would I know?
Funny how people who complain about taxes going on benefits for the needy and the NHS (y'know, things that actually help people) don't seem to mind it being spent on trident missiles."Or Border Control 
Funnily enough, I agree with the fact that Immigration has become a problem, mainly because its this particular issue that's turning everyone into right wingers. If the Government could be seen to be putting in place sensible policies and controls then maybe UKIP wouldn't be able to use it as an issue. However its one of those things that most parties want to avoid because it causes so much debate.
Also I have a sneaky feeling Cambot wants out of the EU and this is a perfect excuse. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Uh...the UK is full?!? in comparison with the rest of the EU states per square kilometer of surface area per head of population, Yeah!
Build up-or build down. Whichever; there is always room.
are you prepared to fund all this massive building work through extra Taxes.
Gimp
Well seeing as the government is never transparent about what my and everyone else's taxes are actually spent on, how would I know?
Funny how people who complain about taxes going on benefits for the needy and the NHS (y'know, things that actually help people) don't seem to mind it being spent on trident missiles.
I dont think anyone has mentioned the NHS or Benefits, Seems to me that the massive cost of actually building hundreds of more Tower Blocks or the Enormous caverns needed would cost Billions, Who Pays?
Gimp
But the argument 'there isn't enough room for all these people who are slightly different from us' has been trundled out to justify xenophobia towards minorities for years, with little justification. To wit: Hitler's policy of 'lebensraum' or 'breathing room'. Weimar Germany was hardly overcrowded, and neither is the UK in 2014."Again! Who mentioned Minorities or slightly Different to us? your intended Argument has nothing at all to do with the original post and your idea that it has any relation to Germanies plans in the 40's is frankly Laughable as Britain is an Island so the only way to expand is build on Water
Gimp | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Uh...the UK is full?!? in comparison with the rest of the EU states per square kilometer of surface area per head of population, Yeah!
Build up-or build down. Whichever; there is always room.
are you prepared to fund all this massive building work through extra Taxes.
Gimp
Well seeing as the government is never transparent about what my and everyone else's taxes are actually spent on, how would I know?
Funny how people who complain about taxes going on benefits for the needy and the NHS (y'know, things that actually help people) don't seem to mind it being spent on trident missiles.
I dont think anyone has mentioned the NHS or Benefits, Seems to me that the massive cost of actually building hundreds of more Tower Blocks or the Enormous caverns needed would cost Billions, Who Pays?
Gimp
But the argument 'there isn't enough room for all these people who are slightly different from us' has been trundled out to justify xenophobia towards minorities for years, with little justification. To wit: Hitler's policy of 'lebensraum' or 'breathing room'. Weimar Germany was hardly overcrowded, and neither is the UK in 2014.
Again! Who mentioned Minorities or slightly Different to us? your intended Argument has nothing at all to do with the original post and your idea that it has any relation to Germanies plans in the 40's is frankly Laughable as Britain is an Island so the only way to expand is build on Water
Gimp"1930s. Or we could do what we did in the past and construct a global empire...we didn't seem to have any problem 'expanding our borders' in the nineteenth century. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Uh...the UK is full?!? in comparison with the rest of the EU states per square kilometer of surface area per head of population, Yeah!
Build up-or build down. Whichever; there is always room.
Oh good idea, we can start in Lincoln
Can just see the headlines now
UK DIGS CAVES TO HOUSE FOREIGN WORKERS
Nah; I'd much rather my hard-earned money was spent on another war where we essentially bomb pre-industrial shepherds in order to maintain the illusion that Britain is still a global superpower.
Guess we Brits didn't have an issue when we were invading said 'foreigners' home turf and populating them with British colonists and convicts to the detriment of the local populations....cough Australia cough South Africa cough New Zealand cough USA and Canada etc etc
"Spoken like a true left winger, perhaps you would like to said foreigners wipe out the indignant population of this country. And while we are on the subject of dropping bombs. May I remind you that it was a Labour administration that took us into the last war. A labour Prime Minister that agreed to use of the first atomic bomb in 1945. And lastly, you forgot to mention the Falkland Islands in your list | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Uh...the UK is full?!? in comparison with the rest of the EU states per square kilometer of surface area per head of population, Yeah!
Build up-or build down. Whichever; there is always room.
Oh good idea, we can start in Lincoln
Can just see the headlines now
UK DIGS CAVES TO HOUSE FOREIGN WORKERS
Nah; I'd much rather my hard-earned money was spent on another war where we essentially bomb pre-industrial shepherds in order to maintain the illusion that Britain is still a global superpower.
Guess we Brits didn't have an issue when we were invading said 'foreigners' home turf and populating them with British colonists and convicts to the detriment of the local populations....cough Australia cough South Africa cough New Zealand cough USA and Canada etc etc
Spoken like a true left winger, perhaps you would like to said foreigners wipe out the indignant population of this country.
And while we are on the subject of dropping bombs. May I remind you that it was a Labour administration that took us into the last war. A labour Prime Minister that agreed to use of the first atomic bomb in 1945.
And lastly, you forgot to mention the Falkland Islands in your list "I'm not a left winger. Also, the word is 'indigenous' and if you wanted to wipe out the 'indigenous poulation of the British Isles that would be the Welsh, Scots and Irish. By the same logic, all English people should be repatriated back to Saxony and Angeln in Germany and give Britain back to the natives. Damn Germanic invaders, coming over here and taking our jobs and our country. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Uh...the UK is full?!? in comparison with the rest of the EU states per square kilometer of surface area per head of population, Yeah!
Build up-or build down. Whichever; there is always room.
are you prepared to fund all this massive building work through extra Taxes.
Gimp
Well seeing as the government is never transparent about what my and everyone else's taxes are actually spent on, how would I know?
Funny how people who complain about taxes going on benefits for the needy and the NHS (y'know, things that actually help people) don't seem to mind it being spent on trident missiles.
I dont think anyone has mentioned the NHS or Benefits, Seems to me that the massive cost of actually building hundreds of more Tower Blocks or the Enormous caverns needed would cost Billions, Who Pays?
Gimp
But the argument 'there isn't enough room for all these people who are slightly different from us' has been trundled out to justify xenophobia towards minorities for years, with little justification. To wit: Hitler's policy of 'lebensraum' or 'breathing room'. Weimar Germany was hardly overcrowded, and neither is the UK in 2014.
Again! Who mentioned Minorities or slightly Different to us? your intended Argument has nothing at all to do with the original post and your idea that it has any relation to Germanies plans in the 40's is frankly Laughable as Britain is an Island so the only way to expand is build on Water
Gimp
1930s.
Or we could do what we did in the past and construct a global empire...we didn't seem to have any problem 'expanding our borders' in the nineteenth century.
"I stand corrected on the 1930's What on Earth has the Nineteenth Century got to with this Countries overcrowding problem today ? John Majors speech was about too many people coming onto this Island not leaving it. Gimp | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Uh...the UK is full?!? in comparison with the rest of the EU states per square kilometer of surface area per head of population, Yeah!
Build up-or build down. Whichever; there is always room.
are you prepared to fund all this massive building work through extra Taxes.
Gimp
Well seeing as the government is never transparent about what my and everyone else's taxes are actually spent on, how would I know?
Funny how people who complain about taxes going on benefits for the needy and the NHS (y'know, things that actually help people) don't seem to mind it being spent on trident missiles.
I dont think anyone has mentioned the NHS or Benefits, Seems to me that the massive cost of actually building hundreds of more Tower Blocks or the Enormous caverns needed would cost Billions, Who Pays?
Gimp
But the argument 'there isn't enough room for all these people who are slightly different from us' has been trundled out to justify xenophobia towards minorities for years, with little justification. To wit: Hitler's policy of 'lebensraum' or 'breathing room'. Weimar Germany was hardly overcrowded, and neither is the UK in 2014.
Again! Who mentioned Minorities or slightly Different to us? your intended Argument has nothing at all to do with the original post and your idea that it has any relation to Germanies plans in the 40's is frankly Laughable as Britain is an Island so the only way to expand is build on Water
Gimp
1930s.
Or we could do what we did in the past and construct a global empire...we didn't seem to have any problem 'expanding our borders' in the nineteenth century.
I stand corrected on the 1930's
What on Earth has the Nineteenth Century got to with this Countries overcrowding problem today ?
John Majors speech was about too many people coming onto this Island not leaving it.
Gimp" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Uh...the UK is full?!? in comparison with the rest of the EU states per square kilometer of surface area per head of population, Yeah!
Build up-or build down. Whichever; there is always room.
Oh good idea, we can start in Lincoln
Can just see the headlines now
UK DIGS CAVES TO HOUSE FOREIGN WORKERS
Nah; I'd much rather my hard-earned money was spent on another war where we essentially bomb pre-industrial shepherds in order to maintain the illusion that Britain is still a global superpower.
Guess we Brits didn't have an issue when we were invading said 'foreigners' home turf and populating them with British colonists and convicts to the detriment of the local populations....cough Australia cough South Africa cough New Zealand cough USA and Canada etc etc
Spoken like a true left winger, perhaps you would like to said foreigners wipe out the indignant population of this country.
And while we are on the subject of dropping bombs. May I remind you that it was a Labour administration that took us into the last war. A labour Prime Minister that agreed to use of the first atomic bomb in 1945.
And lastly, you forgot to mention the Falkland Islands in your list
I'm not a left winger. Also, the word is 'indigenous' and if you wanted to wipe out the 'indigenous poulation of the British Isles that would be the Welsh, Scots and Irish. By the same logic, all English people should be repatriated back to Saxony and Angeln in Germany and give Britain back to the natives.
Damn Germanic invaders, coming over here and taking our jobs and our country.
"Excuse Me? My old Man was West Indian so i find that Comment very Racist..see where im coming from here ? Gimp | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Uh...the UK is full?!? in comparison with the rest of the EU states per square kilometer of surface area per head of population, Yeah!
Build up-or build down. Whichever; there is always room.
are you prepared to fund all this massive building work through extra Taxes.
Gimp
Well seeing as the government is never transparent about what my and everyone else's taxes are actually spent on, how would I know?
Funny how people who complain about taxes going on benefits for the needy and the NHS (y'know, things that actually help people) don't seem to mind it being spent on trident missiles.
I dont think anyone has mentioned the NHS or Benefits, Seems to me that the massive cost of actually building hundreds of more Tower Blocks or the Enormous caverns needed would cost Billions, Who Pays?
Gimp
But the argument 'there isn't enough room for all these people who are slightly different from us' has been trundled out to justify xenophobia towards minorities for years, with little justification. To wit: Hitler's policy of 'lebensraum' or 'breathing room'. Weimar Germany was hardly overcrowded, and neither is the UK in 2014.
Again! Who mentioned Minorities or slightly Different to us? your intended Argument has nothing at all to do with the original post and your idea that it has any relation to Germanies plans in the 40's is frankly Laughable as Britain is an Island so the only way to expand is build on Water
Gimp
1930s.
Or we could do what we did in the past and construct a global empire...we didn't seem to have any problem 'expanding our borders' in the nineteenth century.
I stand corrected on the 1930's
What on Earth has the Nineteenth Century got to with this Countries overcrowding problem today ?
John Majors speech was about too many people coming onto this Island not leaving it.
Gimp"You said: " Britain is an Island so the only way to expand is build on Water" as opposed to countries which aren't islands which would presumably either do the same thing (a la the Netherlands) or invade a neighbouring country (eg Russia) My point was, why does being an island mean we can't 'expand'? We had no problem 'expanding' when we created the world's largest colonial empire to date. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Uh...the UK is full?!? in comparison with the rest of the EU states per square kilometer of surface area per head of population, Yeah!
Build up-or build down. Whichever; there is always room.
Oh good idea, we can start in Lincoln
Can just see the headlines now
UK DIGS CAVES TO HOUSE FOREIGN WORKERS
Nah; I'd much rather my hard-earned money was spent on another war where we essentially bomb pre-industrial shepherds in order to maintain the illusion that Britain is still a global superpower.
Guess we Brits didn't have an issue when we were invading said 'foreigners' home turf and populating them with British colonists and convicts to the detriment of the local populations....cough Australia cough South Africa cough New Zealand cough USA and Canada etc etc
Spoken like a true left winger, perhaps you would like to said foreigners wipe out the indignant population of this country.
And while we are on the subject of dropping bombs. May I remind you that it was a Labour administration that took us into the last war. A labour Prime Minister that agreed to use of the first atomic bomb in 1945.
And lastly, you forgot to mention the Falkland Islands in your list
I'm not a left winger. Also, the word is 'indigenous' and if you wanted to wipe out the 'indigenous poulation of the British Isles that would be the Welsh, Scots and Irish. By the same logic, all English people should be repatriated back to Saxony and Angeln in Germany and give Britain back to the natives.
Damn Germanic invaders, coming over here and taking our jobs and our country.
"I suppose you could just ignore the facts: chronic shortage of affordable housing in the major conurbations vastly over populated schools with significant challenges faced by the multi-lingual pupils (in inner London over 75% of pupils have English as a second language) chronic pressure on the NHS a tube system in London which is bursting at the seems The issue is not one of "Jonny Foreigner coming and taking our jobs" - it is an appreciation that population forecasts were totally wrong. The population has grown by almost 4m people in a very short space of time and it is putting unbearable stress on infrastructure. If the current rate of population growth continues something has to give. Billions of capital spending is required to make the country fit for purpose and the problem is we are broke and cannot pay for it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Uh...the UK is full?!? in comparison with the rest of the EU states per square kilometer of surface area per head of population, Yeah!
Build up-or build down. Whichever; there is always room.
are you prepared to fund all this massive building work through extra Taxes.
Gimp"The post seems to suggest that the EU are being asked to support the development required. That, or accept immigration controls are required. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Uh...the UK is full?!? in comparison with the rest of the EU states per square kilometer of surface area per head of population, Yeah!
Build up-or build down. Whichever; there is always room.
Oh good idea, we can start in Lincoln
Can just see the headlines now
UK DIGS CAVES TO HOUSE FOREIGN WORKERS
Nah; I'd much rather my hard-earned money was spent on another war where we essentially bomb pre-industrial shepherds in order to maintain the illusion that Britain is still a global superpower.
Guess we Brits didn't have an issue when we were invading said 'foreigners' home turf and populating them with British colonists and convicts to the detriment of the local populations....cough Australia cough South Africa cough New Zealand cough USA and Canada etc etc
Spoken like a true left winger, perhaps you would like to said foreigners wipe out the indignant population of this country.
And while we are on the subject of dropping bombs. May I remind you that it was a Labour administration that took us into the last war. A labour Prime Minister that agreed to use of the first atomic bomb in 1945.
And lastly, you forgot to mention the Falkland Islands in your list
I'm not a left winger. Also, the word is 'indigenous' and if you wanted to wipe out the 'indigenous poulation of the British Isles that would be the Welsh, Scots and Irish. By the same logic, all English people should be repatriated back to Saxony and Angeln in Germany and give Britain back to the natives.
Damn Germanic invaders, coming over here and taking our jobs and our country.
Excuse Me? My old Man was West Indian so i find that Comment very Racist..see where im coming from here?
Gimp"
Huh?
1. I wasn't being serious,
and 2. I was talking about the Anglo-Saxons/English, who were of course from Saxony and Angeln in Germany originally and not Britain, not West Indians, who I didn't even mention. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
Gimp | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Uh...the UK is full?!? in comparison with the rest of the EU states per square kilometer of surface area per head of population, Yeah!
Build up-or build down. Whichever; there is always room.
Oh good idea, we can start in Lincoln
Can just see the headlines now
UK DIGS CAVES TO HOUSE FOREIGN WORKERS
Nah; I'd much rather my hard-earned money was spent on another war where we essentially bomb pre-industrial shepherds in order to maintain the illusion that Britain is still a global superpower.
Guess we Brits didn't have an issue when we were invading said 'foreigners' home turf and populating them with British colonists and convicts to the detriment of the local populations....cough Australia cough South Africa cough New Zealand cough USA and Canada etc etc
Spoken like a true left winger, perhaps you would like to said foreigners wipe out the indignant population of this country.
And while we are on the subject of dropping bombs. May I remind you that it was a Labour administration that took us into the last war. A labour Prime Minister that agreed to use of the first atomic bomb in 1945.
And lastly, you forgot to mention the Falkland Islands in your list "Not to mention the Suez crisis of 1956, the Malayan conflict, both Gulf Wars, Grenada, Korea, etc. etc. etc. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp"nope, not my plan at all. Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?"so what is your plan?? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Uh...the UK is full?!? in comparison with the rest of the EU states per square kilometer of surface area per head of population, Yeah!
Build up-or build down. Whichever; there is always room.
Oh good idea, we can start in Lincoln
Can just see the headlines now
UK DIGS CAVES TO HOUSE FOREIGN WORKERS
Nah; I'd much rather my hard-earned money was spent on another war where we essentially bomb pre-industrial shepherds in order to maintain the illusion that Britain is still a global superpower.
Guess we Brits didn't have an issue when we were invading said 'foreigners' home turf and populating them with British colonists and convicts to the detriment of the local populations....cough Australia cough South Africa cough New Zealand cough USA and Canada etc etc
Spoken like a true left winger, perhaps you would like to said foreigners wipe out the indignant population of this country.
And while we are on the subject of dropping bombs. May I remind you that it was a Labour administration that took us into the last war. A labour Prime Minister that agreed to use of the first atomic bomb in 1945.
And lastly, you forgot to mention the Falkland Islands in your list
Not to mention the Suez crisis of 1956, the Malayan conflict, both Gulf Wars, Grenada, Korea, etc. etc. etc."You seem very strong on historical fact, but weak on common sense  | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Uh...the UK is full?!? in comparison with the rest of the EU states per square kilometer of surface area per head of population, Yeah!
Build up-or build down. Whichever; there is always room.
Oh good idea, we can start in Lincoln
Can just see the headlines now
UK DIGS CAVES TO HOUSE FOREIGN WORKERS
Nah; I'd much rather my hard-earned money was spent on another war where we essentially bomb pre-industrial shepherds in order to maintain the illusion that Britain is still a global superpower.
Guess we Brits didn't have an issue when we were invading said 'foreigners' home turf and populating them with British colonists and convicts to the detriment of the local populations....cough Australia cough South Africa cough New Zealand cough USA and Canada etc etc
Spoken like a true left winger, perhaps you would like to said foreigners wipe out the indignant population of this country.
And while we are on the subject of dropping bombs. May I remind you that it was a Labour administration that took us into the last war. A labour Prime Minister that agreed to use of the first atomic bomb in 1945.
And lastly, you forgot to mention the Falkland Islands in your list
I'm not a left winger. Also, the word is 'indigenous' and if you wanted to wipe out the 'indigenous poulation of the British Isles that would be the Welsh, Scots and Irish. By the same logic, all English people should be repatriated back to Saxony and Angeln in Germany and give Britain back to the natives.
Damn Germanic invaders, coming over here and taking our jobs and our country.
Excuse Me? My old Man was West Indian so i find that Comment very Racist..see where im coming from here?
Gimp
Huh?
1. I wasn't being serious,
and 2. I was talking about the Anglo-Saxons/English, who were of course from Saxony and Angeln in Germany originally and not Britain, not West Indians, who I didn't even mention."1 Ah sorry it makes sense now, You just a Joker whith a wry sense of Humour. 2 You stated that all English people should be Repatriated to Saxony and Angeln (its there in Black and White). 3 Please try and stay focused as i am getting confused. Gimp | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??"Scrap Trident and national defense budgets and use the money to build housing stock for economic migrants from godforsaken EU countries | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
Scrap Trident and national defense budgets and use the money to build housing stock for economic migrants from godforsaken EU countries"I'm all for that, but where would we build? There's tons of new housing going up in York at the mo but they're either student accommodation, or so expensive even the Duke of Westminster would struggle to afford them. As a country where people have an apoplectic fit every time a builder sets foot on greenfield sites, where are we going to put all this housing? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Uh...the UK is full?!? in comparison with the rest of the EU states per square kilometer of surface area per head of population, Yeah!
Build up-or build down. Whichever; there is always room.
Oh good idea, we can start in Lincoln
Can just see the headlines now
UK DIGS CAVES TO HOUSE FOREIGN WORKERS
Nah; I'd much rather my hard-earned money was spent on another war where we essentially bomb pre-industrial shepherds in order to maintain the illusion that Britain is still a global superpower.
Guess we Brits didn't have an issue when we were invading said 'foreigners' home turf and populating them with British colonists and convicts to the detriment of the local populations....cough Australia cough South Africa cough New Zealand cough USA and Canada etc etc
Spoken like a true left winger, perhaps you would like to said foreigners wipe out the indignant population of this country.
And while we are on the subject of dropping bombs. May I remind you that it was a Labour administration that took us into the last war. A labour Prime Minister that agreed to use of the first atomic bomb in 1945.
And lastly, you forgot to mention the Falkland Islands in your list
I'm not a left winger. Also, the word is 'indigenous' and if you wanted to wipe out the 'indigenous poulation of the British Isles that would be the Welsh, Scots and Irish. By the same logic, all English people should be repatriated back to Saxony and Angeln in Germany and give Britain back to the natives.
Damn Germanic invaders, coming over here and taking our jobs and our country.
"Oh dear I used the wrong word in context. Thats an hour on the naughty chair, perhaps the word I used would sum up the feelings of a lot of people in this country. indignant /?n'd?gn?nt/ adjective adjective: indignant feeling or showing anger or annoyance at what is perceived as unfair treatment. "he was indignant at being the object of suspicion" synonyms: aggrieved, resentful, affronted, disgruntled, discontented, dissatisfied, angry, distressed, unhappy, disturbed, hurt, pained, upset, offended, piqued, in high dudgeon, riled, nettled, vexed, irked, irritated, annoyed, put out, chagrined; | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
Scrap Trident and national defense budgets and use the money to build housing stock for economic migrants from godforsaken EU countries
I'm all for that, but where would we build? There's tons of new housing going up in York at the mo but they're either student accommodation, or so expensive even the Duke of Westminster would struggle to afford them.
As a country where people have an apoplectic fit every time a builder sets foot on greenfield sites, where are we going to put all this housing?"Lincoln, Theres lots of space allegedly
Gimp | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
Scrap Trident and national defense budgets and use the money to build housing stock for economic migrants from godforsaken EU countries
I'm all for that, but where would we build? There's tons of new housing going up in York at the mo but they're either student accommodation, or so expensive even the Duke of Westminster would struggle to afford them.
As a country where people have an apoplectic fit every time a builder sets foot on greenfield sites, where are we going to put all this housing?
Lincoln, Theres lots of space allegedly
Gimp"One of the problems with unrestricted immigration is that it leads the ghettos, and if immigrants are directed to places without infrastructure support, those ghettos are likely to be somewhat under-served. York is a very white city but no-one knows why. Its not the cost - Oxford is considerably more expensive yet has a large ethnic and immigrant population. So dropping a large immigrant population in, say, Lincoln would probably help other, overpopulated areas, but wouldn't help Lincoln in any way. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??"In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day. Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now? Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right."What ? By God i think ive just read the new Terry Pratchett script
Gimp | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right."thank you for that very helpful contribution | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
What ?
By God i think ive just read the new Terry Pratchett script
Gimp"Nah, he doesn't write Sci-fi
There is nothing wrong with desiring globalisation (its one of my dreams too), and if we stopped fighting for 5 mins we could have been on Mars by now. But what that comment has to do with the OP is difficult to work out. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
What ?
By God i think ive just read the new Terry Pratchett script
Gimp"I thought David Icke had logged on | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution "Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally. Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right."Ronald Reagan!!!!! No wonder someone shot him Hang just had a thought, when the colonisation of space does happen (said tongue in cheek) No1 in the charts will be a little number by Jonathon King. Everyone's gone to the moon | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming."Also, the Reagan quote is: "I occasionally think how quickly our differences, worldwide, would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world" From a speech with President Mikhail Gorbachev, in 1988. But of course, I must be a left-winger for some reason | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
Ronald Reagan!!!!!
No wonder someone shot him
Hang just had a thought, when the colonisation of space does happen (said tongue in cheek)
No1 in the charts will be a little number by Jonathon King.
Everyone's gone to the moon "Why not? With advances in technology and space travel over the next 100 years, why would humans not start colonising the moon? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming."I cant really see how waiting for an alien invasion, so that we all bandy together to shoot the little green motherfuckers, is at all relevant to the current problem of the increase in population through immigration??? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming."You're right in some respects, but none of this helps with the acute problems we are faced with now. Idealism's great, but... Sarah x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"I haven't read it all, but it looks like the start of the first sensible debate on the impact of immigration in the UK. The issue being that the UK population has grown by 7% in the last decade, an unprecedented modern era rise without the associated investment in infrastructure in hospitals, education and transport. To soundbite, the UK is full and he expects social unrest and an exit from the EU if some sensible constraints are not imposed or a huge investment from the EU into the UK to support the population growth. He was a much better prime minister than he ever got credit for ! " Absolutely correct in my opinion. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming.You're right in some respects, but none of this helps with the acute problems we are faced with now. Idealism's great, but...
Sarah x"I agree, just pointing out those problems are tiny to irrelevant in the long run. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming."And of course the Romans, the Greeks, the Saxons, The Angles, Alexander the Great etc etc all adhered to borders. Tribes have been fighting over territory since before the wheel was invented | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming.
I cant really see how waiting for an alien invasion, so that we all bandy together to shoot the little green motherfuckers, is at all relevant to the current problem of the increase in population through immigration???"Where did I say anything about being invaded by aliens? I said 'a threat from space or on the Earth itself, that threatens our existence as a species.' The latter-something on the Earth itself-I.e. Our exist inaction through the Earth's ecosystem breaking down and failing is a very real possibility. So that should be our focus rather than worrying if there's enough people to fit on one island (which there obviously is) | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming.You're right in some respects, but none of this helps with the acute problems we are faced with now. Idealism's great, but...
Sarah x
I agree, just pointing out those problems are tiny to irrelevant in the long run. "they aren't tiny and irrelevant to the here and now and to the millions of people impacted. Idealism is great but when it is propagated at the expense of realism it risks ridicule. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming."The Greeks, Romans, Egyptians,Liberians, West Africans, East Africans, North Africans will all be glad to hear that us Colonialists invented Language and Nationalism
Gimp | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming.
And of course the Romans, the Greeks, the Saxons, The Angles, Alexander the Great etc etc all adhered to borders.
Tribes have been fighting over territory since before the wheel was invented"Of course, but they didn't do it for reasons of nationalism, because nationalism didn't really become a thing until the 18th and nineteenth century. Before that, of course, countries would fight over land, but it would be for reasons other than nationalism, often religion. But a whole host of other reasons. With the industrialisation of Europe in those centuries, the ruling, often middle classes utilised nationalism as a way of making the working classes identify with a common national identity with them, which was largely irrelevant in the pre-Industrial Age. So, sure, your peasant in the pre-Industrial Age might have thought of themselves as 'English' or 'French', but their loyalty to their direct feudal superior was much more important, even than fighting for the King, who was a distant figure in the whole scheme of things. Before the 18th century, people by and large did not fight over nationality. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming.
The Greeks, Romans, Egyptians,Liberians, West Africans, East Africans, North Africans will all be glad to hear that us Colonialists invented Language and Nationalism
Gimp"I said nationalism and nation-States. Not the ideas of language and ethnic identity. The latter two existed before the concepts of nationality and nationalism were invented. For example...Belgium and Switzerland...both are nation states...there is a Swiss and Belgian 'nationality' and ''nation states'...but there is no Swiss language or Belgian language. Same goes for bigger states like France where, before the Industrial Age started, there was no one French language but a multitude of similar sounding languages that were all standardised very recently to become that thing we now call 'French', purely for reasons of fostering an invented 'national identity' that didn't really exist before. The same is equally true of English, Spanish and German. Funny you should mention Africa, seeing as most of the currently existing sub-Saharan African and Asian countries have borders that go across ethnic and language boundaries. Hence the conflicts in places like Rwanda and Nigeria-Biafra. We imposed nationalities and boundaries on areas that did not have them before. Indeed, there was no unified 'India' until the British arrived. | |||
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" Sadly thus interesting thread is getting a bit off track and melodramatic. The main point the OP was trying to make I believe, is that our population has increased by 7% in a decade but our infrastructure ie education, health,police etc have been cut. Even the most apathetic can see that this will lower a standard of living and service by those commodities. It's not simply about where those people are coming from but catering for them AND our citizens already here. I fear that social unrest will as highlight be a factor." | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming.
The Greeks, Romans, Egyptians,Liberians, West Africans, East Africans, North Africans will all be glad to hear that us Colonialists invented Language and Nationalism
Gimp
I said nationalism and nation-States. Not the ideas of language and ethnic identity. The latter two existed before the concepts of nationality and nationalism were invented.
For example...Belgium and Switzerland...both are nation states...there is a Swiss and Belgian 'nationality' and ''nation states'...but there is no Swiss language or Belgian language.
Same goes for bigger states like France where, before the Industrial Age started, there was no one French language but a multitude of similar sounding languages that were all standardised very recently to become that thing we now call 'French', purely for reasons of fostering an invented 'national identity' that didn't really exist before. The same is equally true of English, Spanish and German.
Funny you should mention Africa, seeing as most of the currently existing sub-Saharan African and Asian countries have borders that go across ethnic and language boundaries. Hence the conflicts in places like Rwanda and Nigeria-Biafra. We imposed nationalities and boundaries on areas that did not have them before. Indeed, there was no unified 'India' until the British arrived."Nope still lost, How does this help the potential overcrowding and breakdown of public services in this country, Or are you now suggesting that we ask Rwanda for help in getting us all to Mars..Again good luck with that Plan
Gimp | |||
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"And as for the people didn't fight pre 18th century over nationalism, you're probably right but they faced different challenges and environment's. Stick a thousand people on a cruise ship with restaurant's and cinemas and bunks and everyone's rather happy and loving. Throw them all over board with a few life rafts to cater for them and watch dog eat dog and forget all about their niceties.We either need to develop and realise nationalism is a thing of the past or realise it's all getting rather ugly." Nationalism wasn't necessary in a pre-industrial society because the upper class was in control, not the middle classes. Once we got into the Industrial Age the middle classes were the ones who were in charge of industry as well as the government so they needed some way of getting the working classes to basically do what they wanted. They couldn't use religion as a way of getting people to do that as by the time we got into the Industrial Age attitudes to religion had changed. So instead nationalism was used as a way of getting all people to rally round a common cause. Pre-18th century, most wars were about religion, because society was feudal and pre-industrial. Post-industrial revolution, most wars are about nationalism instead. So all the major wars of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries-the American and French revolutionary wars, the napoleonic wars, and both world wars were all about nationalism rather than religion. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming.
The Greeks, Romans, Egyptians,Liberians, West Africans, East Africans, North Africans will all be glad to hear that us Colonialists invented Language and Nationalism
Gimp
I said nationalism and nation-States. Not the ideas of language and ethnic identity. The latter two existed before the concepts of nationality and nationalism were invented.
For example...Belgium and Switzerland...both are nation states...there is a Swiss and Belgian 'nationality' and ''nation states'...but there is no Swiss language or Belgian language.
Same goes for bigger states like France where, before the Industrial Age started, there was no one French language but a multitude of similar sounding languages that were all standardised very recently to become that thing we now call 'French', purely for reasons of fostering an invented 'national identity' that didn't really exist before. The same is equally true of English, Spanish and German.
Funny you should mention Africa, seeing as most of the currently existing sub-Saharan African and Asian countries have borders that go across ethnic and language boundaries. Hence the conflicts in places like Rwanda and Nigeria-Biafra. We imposed nationalities and boundaries on areas that did not have them before. Indeed, there was no unified 'India' until the British arrived.
Nope still lost, How does this help the potential overcrowding and breakdown of public services in this country, Or are you now suggesting that we ask Rwanda for help in getting us all to Mars..Again good luck with that Plan
Gimp"Because borders are artificial lines drawn on a map that don't really exist? And we drew these artificial lines across pre-existing language and national boundaries when we created and then systematically dismantled our Empire? How could a very large island with plenty of available space possibly become overcrowded? This isn't Hong Kong or Singapore. | |||
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"We either need to develop and realise nationalism is a thing of the past or realise it's all getting rather ugly." Exactly. The only real 'nationality' we have is the one were are born with as an inalienable right: that of 'human being'. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"And as for the people didn't fight pre 18th century over nationalism, you're probably right but they faced different challenges and environment's. Stick a thousand people on a cruise ship with restaurant's and cinemas and bunks and everyone's rather happy and loving. Throw them all over board with a few life rafts to cater for them and watch dog eat dog and forget all about their niceties.We either need to develop and realise nationalism is a thing of the past or realise it's all getting rather ugly. Nationalism wasn't necessary in a pre-industrial society because the upper class was in control, not the middle classes. Once we got into the Industrial Age the middle classes were the ones who were in charge of industry as well as the government so they needed some way of getting the working classes to basically do what they wanted. They couldn't use religion as a way of getting people to do that as by the time we got into the Industrial Age attitudes to religion had changed. So instead nationalism was used as a way of getting all people to rally round a common cause. Pre-18th century, most wars were about religion, because society was feudal and pre-industrial. Post-industrial revolution, most wars are about nationalism instead. So all the major wars of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries-the American and French revolutionary wars, the napoleonic wars, and both world wars were all about nationalism rather than religion." I think you have rather missed the point, this is not about nationalism, it is about an ever increasing population without sufficient infrastructure to support it. Dreaming about populating Mars as a long term solution is your prerogative, but there are major issues that need to be considered in the here and now. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming.
The Greeks, Romans, Egyptians,Liberians, West Africans, East Africans, North Africans will all be glad to hear that us Colonialists invented Language and Nationalism
Gimp
I said nationalism and nation-States. Not the ideas of language and ethnic identity. The latter two existed before the concepts of nationality and nationalism were invented.
For example...Belgium and Switzerland...both are nation states...there is a Swiss and Belgian 'nationality' and ''nation states'...but there is no Swiss language or Belgian language.
Same goes for bigger states like France where, before the Industrial Age started, there was no one French language but a multitude of similar sounding languages that were all standardised very recently to become that thing we now call 'French', purely for reasons of fostering an invented 'national identity' that didn't really exist before. The same is equally true of English, Spanish and German.
Funny you should mention Africa, seeing as most of the currently existing sub-Saharan African and Asian countries have borders that go across ethnic and language boundaries. Hence the conflicts in places like Rwanda and Nigeria-Biafra. We imposed nationalities and boundaries on areas that did not have them before. Indeed, there was no unified 'India' until the British arrived.
Nope still lost, How does this help the potential overcrowding and breakdown of public services in this country, Or are you now suggesting that we ask Rwanda for help in getting us all to Mars..Again good luck with that Plan
Gimp"This may be coincidence, but I got an email today from a Nigerian prince who offered to sell me prime real estate on Mars. It may be a bit warm, but he reckons the A/C will keep it cool. I dont even have to give him money, just my bank details and he'll do the rest. Ive looked on TripAdvisor and there's not much detail about Mars on there, apart from to say the locals are a bit pissed with the amount of immigrants arriving. | |||
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"We either need to develop and realise nationalism is a thing of the past or realise it's all getting rather ugly. Exactly. The only real 'nationality' we have is the one were are born with as an inalienable right: that of 'human being'." True...but as a species I think we're a long way off achieving that. The more we argue about culture, identity, boundaries and language the further away we move from a common language of understanding and compassion. | |||
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"We either need to develop and realise nationalism is a thing of the past or realise it's all getting rather ugly. Exactly. The only real 'nationality' we have is the one were are born with as an inalienable right: that of 'human being'." Fuck, my British passport is incorrect | |||
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"And as for the people didn't fight pre 18th century over nationalism, you're probably right but they faced different challenges and environment's. Stick a thousand people on a cruise ship with restaurant's and cinemas and bunks and everyone's rather happy and loving. Throw them all over board with a few life rafts to cater for them and watch dog eat dog and forget all about their niceties.We either need to develop and realise nationalism is a thing of the past or realise it's all getting rather ugly. Nationalism wasn't necessary in a pre-industrial society because the upper class was in control, not the middle classes. Once we got into the Industrial Age the middle classes were the ones who were in charge of industry as well as the government so they needed some way of getting the working classes to basically do what they wanted. They couldn't use religion as a way of getting people to do that as by the time we got into the Industrial Age attitudes to religion had changed. So instead nationalism was used as a way of getting all people to rally round a common cause. Pre-18th century, most wars were about religion, because society was feudal and pre-industrial. Post-industrial revolution, most wars are about nationalism instead. So all the major wars of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries-the American and French revolutionary wars, the napoleonic wars, and both world wars were all about nationalism rather than religion. I think you have rather missed the point, this is not about nationalism, it is about an ever increasing population without sufficient infrastructure to support it. Dreaming about populating Mars as a long term solution is your prerogative, but there are major issues that need to be considered in the here and now." I didn't mention Mars. But that's my point...in light of nationalism becoming increasingly a thing of the past, why does it matter whether so and so is an immigrant or not? Why does it matter that someone wasn't born here? They're still a human being as much as the ones who were born here. And, to some degree, isn't the development of continental federal unions like the European Union and the African Union just a step towards a one-world state anyway? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming.
The Greeks, Romans, Egyptians,Liberians, West Africans, East Africans, North Africans will all be glad to hear that us Colonialists invented Language and Nationalism
Gimp
I said nationalism and nation-States. Not the ideas of language and ethnic identity. The latter two existed before the concepts of nationality and nationalism were invented.
For example...Belgium and Switzerland...both are nation states...there is a Swiss and Belgian 'nationality' and ''nation states'...but there is no Swiss language or Belgian language.
Same goes for bigger states like France where, before the Industrial Age started, there was no one French language but a multitude of similar sounding languages that were all standardised very recently to become that thing we now call 'French', purely for reasons of fostering an invented 'national identity' that didn't really exist before. The same is equally true of English, Spanish and German.
Funny you should mention Africa, seeing as most of the currently existing sub-Saharan African and Asian countries have borders that go across ethnic and language boundaries. Hence the conflicts in places like Rwanda and Nigeria-Biafra. We imposed nationalities and boundaries on areas that did not have them before. Indeed, there was no unified 'India' until the British arrived.
Nope still lost, How does this help the potential overcrowding and breakdown of public services in this country, Or are you now suggesting that we ask Rwanda for help in getting us all to Mars..Again good luck with that Plan
Gimp
Because borders are artificial lines drawn on a map that don't really exist?
And we drew these artificial lines across pre-existing language and national boundaries when we created and then systematically dismantled our Empire?
How could a very large island with plenty of available space possibly become overcrowded? This isn't Hong Kong or Singapore."Ok i will try and explain this simply, If you have 1000 square foot of land and you place a 1000 square foot building on that space and fill that building with people they will die through lack of food, Medication, Water and basic sewage disposal as there will be nowhere to store those things, Nothing to do with those peoples Ancestors or being on Mars its simply a case of having no space. Gimp | |||
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"We either need to develop and realise nationalism is a thing of the past or realise it's all getting rather ugly. Exactly. The only real 'nationality' we have is the one were are born with as an inalienable right: that of 'human being'. Fuck, my British passport is incorrect " Ha I have two....Besides the clangers will see right through your profile passport pic....you've got more chance of landing on an ice covered comet. ...just careful you don't sit on the probe that's up there in the dark. | |||
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"We either need to develop and realise nationalism is a thing of the past or realise it's all getting rather ugly. Exactly. The only real 'nationality' we have is the one were are born with as an inalienable right: that of 'human being'. Fuck, my British passport is incorrect "Well, if ever a nationality was an artificial one, 'British' is one. It only dates from the 1707 Act of Union! Is there a 'British language', for example? Concepts like 'British' is something made up, an abstract, legal concept that doesn't really exist. Whereas 'human being' is something that is biological, that is real. | |||
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"Am I missing something? Being a human is a right now? If so, do I have a right to decide I'm a cat? Or a bear? This debate is surreal even by the standards of this place." What a ridiculous statement. It falls in line with human rights and the notion that we should all hopefully be treated equally. | |||
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"And as for the people didn't fight pre 18th century over nationalism, you're probably right but they faced different challenges and environment's. Stick a thousand people on a cruise ship with restaurant's and cinemas and bunks and everyone's rather happy and loving. Throw them all over board with a few life rafts to cater for them and watch dog eat dog and forget all about their niceties.We either need to develop and realise nationalism is a thing of the past or realise it's all getting rather ugly. Nationalism wasn't necessary in a pre-industrial society because the upper class was in control, not the middle classes. Once we got into the Industrial Age the middle classes were the ones who were in charge of industry as well as the government so they needed some way of getting the working classes to basically do what they wanted. They couldn't use religion as a way of getting people to do that as by the time we got into the Industrial Age attitudes to religion had changed. So instead nationalism was used as a way of getting all people to rally round a common cause. Pre-18th century, most wars were about religion, because society was feudal and pre-industrial. Post-industrial revolution, most wars are about nationalism instead. So all the major wars of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries-the American and French revolutionary wars, the napoleonic wars, and both world wars were all about nationalism rather than religion. I think you have rather missed the point, this is not about nationalism, it is about an ever increasing population without sufficient infrastructure to support it. Dreaming about populating Mars as a long term solution is your prerogative, but there are major issues that need to be considered in the here and now. I didn't mention Mars. But that's my point...in light of nationalism becoming increasingly a thing of the past, why does it matter whether so and so is an immigrant or not? Why does it matter that someone wasn't born here? They're still a human being as much as the ones who were born here. And, to some degree, isn't the development of continental federal unions like the European Union and the African Union just a step towards a one-world state anyway?" Ok, so we accept everyone, born here or not. How do we house them and provide essential services given that the country is over-stretched in terms of infrastructure now. That's the point of the OP. We need to stop allowing more people than we can cope with in, or find huge sums of money to develop infrastructure, and accept that will take time. What's your proposed solution, assuming colonising the moon or invading India are out? | |||
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"Am I missing something? Being a human is a right now? If so, do I have a right to decide I'm a cat? Or a bear? This debate is surreal even by the standards of this place." 'Inalienable right' You can't stop being a human being, can you? Your nationality on the other hand is something that can be renounced or forfeited. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Am I missing something? Being a human is a right now? If so, do I have a right to decide I'm a cat? Or a bear? This debate is surreal even by the standards of this place. What a ridiculous statement. It falls in line with human rights and the notion that we should all hopefully be treated equally." Havent aliens got rights too. You're a Marsionist | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Am I missing something? Being a human is a right now? If so, do I have a right to decide I'm a cat? Or a bear? This debate is surreal even by the standards of this place. What a ridiculous statement. It falls in line with human rights and the notion that we should all hopefully be treated equally. Havent aliens got rights too. You're a Marsionist " I feel a dragons den moment coming on here...I'm out | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"And as for the people didn't fight pre 18th century over nationalism, you're probably right but they faced different challenges and environment's. Stick a thousand people on a cruise ship with restaurant's and cinemas and bunks and everyone's rather happy and loving. Throw them all over board with a few life rafts to cater for them and watch dog eat dog and forget all about their niceties.We either need to develop and realise nationalism is a thing of the past or realise it's all getting rather ugly. Nationalism wasn't necessary in a pre-industrial society because the upper class was in control, not the middle classes. Once we got into the Industrial Age the middle classes were the ones who were in charge of industry as well as the government so they needed some way of getting the working classes to basically do what they wanted. They couldn't use religion as a way of getting people to do that as by the time we got into the Industrial Age attitudes to religion had changed. So instead nationalism was used as a way of getting all people to rally round a common cause. Pre-18th century, most wars were about religion, because society was feudal and pre-industrial. Post-industrial revolution, most wars are about nationalism instead. So all the major wars of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries-the American and French revolutionary wars, the napoleonic wars, and both world wars were all about nationalism rather than religion. I think you have rather missed the point, this is not about nationalism, it is about an ever increasing population without sufficient infrastructure to support it. Dreaming about populating Mars as a long term solution is your prerogative, but there are major issues that need to be considered in the here and now. I didn't mention Mars. But that's my point...in light of nationalism becoming increasingly a thing of the past, why does it matter whether so and so is an immigrant or not? Why does it matter that someone wasn't born here? They're still a human being as much as the ones who were born here. And, to some degree, isn't the development of continental federal unions like the European Union and the African Union just a step towards a one-world state anyway? Ok, so we accept everyone, born here or not. How do we house them and provide essential services given that the country is over-stretched in terms of infrastructure now. That's the point of the OP. We need to stop allowing more people than we can cope with in, or find huge sums of money to develop infrastructure, and accept that will take time. What's your proposed solution, assuming colonising the moon or invading India are out?" Spend more money on those essential services. Cut back on military expenditure that we don't need any more. | |||
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"Am I missing something? Being a human is a right now? If so, do I have a right to decide I'm a cat? Or a bear? This debate is surreal even by the standards of this place. What a ridiculous statement. It falls in line with human rights and the notion that we should all hopefully be treated equally." Being human isn't a right You either are human or you aren't.
Being human may confer rights upon you, (that's a different debate entirely), but being human itself is not a right.
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"Am I missing something? Being a human is a right now? If so, do I have a right to decide I'm a cat? Or a bear? This debate is surreal even by the standards of this place. What a ridiculous statement. It falls in line with human rights and the notion that we should all hopefully be treated equally. Being human isn't a right You either are human or you aren't.
Being human may confer rights upon you, (that's a different debate entirely), but being human itself is not a right.
"semantics of the highest kind. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Am I missing something? Being a human is a right now? If so, do I have a right to decide I'm a cat? Or a bear? This debate is surreal even by the standards of this place. What a ridiculous statement. It falls in line with human rights and the notion that we should all hopefully be treated equally. Havent aliens got rights too. You're a Marsionist "Welcome to LaLa Land, The happy place where everything is free
Gimp | |||
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"Am I missing something? Being a human is a right now? If so, do I have a right to decide I'm a cat? Or a bear? This debate is surreal even by the standards of this place. 'Inalienable right' You can't stop being a human being, can you? Your nationality on the other hand is something that can be renounced or forfeited." You can't stop, no, which is why it isn't a right. You either are or you aren't. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Am I missing something? Being a human is a right now? If so, do I have a right to decide I'm a cat? Or a bear? This debate is surreal even by the standards of this place. What a ridiculous statement. It falls in line with human rights and the notion that we should all hopefully be treated equally. Being human isn't a right You either are human or you aren't.
Being human may confer rights upon you, (that's a different debate entirely), but being human itself is not a right.
semantics of the highest kind."Not at all. Basic common sense. Being human isn't a right. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Am I missing something? Being a human is a right now? If so, do I have a right to decide I'm a cat? Or a bear? This debate is surreal even by the standards of this place. What a ridiculous statement. It falls in line with human rights and the notion that we should all hopefully be treated equally. Havent aliens got rights too. You're a Marsionist
Welcome to LaLa Land, The happy place where everything is free
Gimp"Are there any Plutonians there? I hate those bastards. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming.
The Greeks, Romans, Egyptians,Liberians, West Africans, East Africans, North Africans will all be glad to hear that us Colonialists invented Language and Nationalism
Gimp
I said nationalism and nation-States. Not the ideas of language and ethnic identity. The latter two existed before the concepts of nationality and nationalism were invented.
For example...Belgium and Switzerland...both are nation states...there is a Swiss and Belgian 'nationality' and ''nation states'...but there is no Swiss language or Belgian language.
Same goes for bigger states like France where, before the Industrial Age started, there was no one French language but a multitude of similar sounding languages that were all standardised very recently to become that thing we now call 'French', purely for reasons of fostering an invented 'national identity' that didn't really exist before. The same is equally true of English, Spanish and German.
Funny you should mention Africa, seeing as most of the currently existing sub-Saharan African and Asian countries have borders that go across ethnic and language boundaries. Hence the conflicts in places like Rwanda and Nigeria-Biafra. We imposed nationalities and boundaries on areas that did not have them before. Indeed, there was no unified 'India' until the British arrived.
Nope still lost, How does this help the potential overcrowding and breakdown of public services in this country, Or are you now suggesting that we ask Rwanda for help in getting us all to Mars..Again good luck with that Plan
Gimp
Because borders are artificial lines drawn on a map that don't really exist?
And we drew these artificial lines across pre-existing language and national boundaries when we created and then systematically dismantled our Empire?
How could a very large island with plenty of available space possibly become overcrowded? This isn't Hong Kong or Singapore.
Ok i will try and explain this simply, If you have 1000 square foot of land and you place a 1000 square foot building on that space and fill that building with people they will die through lack of food, Medication, Water and basic sewage disposal as there will be nowhere to store those things, Nothing to do with those peoples Ancestors or being on Mars its simply a case of having no space.
Gimp"Again, I never mentioned Mars. But that's my point-we're not talking about 1000 foot of space, we're not even talking about an overcrowded city-state like Singapore or Hong Kong, we're talking about the ninth biggest Island on the planet. How could we possibly have 'no room'. What about all the empty parts of Scotland. Wales, and other areas? Why can't settlements be built there and people housed there? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Am I missing something? Being a human is a right now? If so, do I have a right to decide I'm a cat? Or a bear? This debate is surreal even by the standards of this place. What a ridiculous statement. It falls in line with human rights and the notion that we should all hopefully be treated equally. Havent aliens got rights too. You're a Marsionist
Welcome to LaLa Land, The happy place where everything is free
Gimp
Are there any Plutonians there? I hate those bastards. "They all live on the 3569000th Floor of the Welcome all Tower block, Be Carefull of the smell tho as the Drainage has been buggered since the Bloody Rwandans pulled out of our famous Utopia project
Gimp | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming.
The Greeks, Romans, Egyptians,Liberians, West Africans, East Africans, North Africans will all be glad to hear that us Colonialists invented Language and Nationalism
Gimp
I said nationalism and nation-States. Not the ideas of language and ethnic identity. The latter two existed before the concepts of nationality and nationalism were invented.
For example...Belgium and Switzerland...both are nation states...there is a Swiss and Belgian 'nationality' and ''nation states'...but there is no Swiss language or Belgian language.
Same goes for bigger states like France where, before the Industrial Age started, there was no one French language but a multitude of similar sounding languages that were all standardised very recently to become that thing we now call 'French', purely for reasons of fostering an invented 'national identity' that didn't really exist before. The same is equally true of English, Spanish and German.
Funny you should mention Africa, seeing as most of the currently existing sub-Saharan African and Asian countries have borders that go across ethnic and language boundaries. Hence the conflicts in places like Rwanda and Nigeria-Biafra. We imposed nationalities and boundaries on areas that did not have them before. Indeed, there was no unified 'India' until the British arrived.
Nope still lost, How does this help the potential overcrowding and breakdown of public services in this country, Or are you now suggesting that we ask Rwanda for help in getting us all to Mars..Again good luck with that Plan
Gimp
Because borders are artificial lines drawn on a map that don't really exist?
And we drew these artificial lines across pre-existing language and national boundaries when we created and then systematically dismantled our Empire?
How could a very large island with plenty of available space possibly become overcrowded? This isn't Hong Kong or Singapore.
Ok i will try and explain this simply, If you have 1000 square foot of land and you place a 1000 square foot building on that space and fill that building with people they will die through lack of food, Medication, Water and basic sewage disposal as there will be nowhere to store those things, Nothing to do with those peoples Ancestors or being on Mars its simply a case of having no space.
Gimp
Again, I never mentioned Mars.
But that's my point-we're not talking about 1000 foot of space, we're not even talking about an overcrowded city-state like Singapore or Hong Kong, we're talking about the ninth biggest Island on the planet. How could we possibly have 'no room'. What about all the empty parts of Scotland. Wales, and other areas? Why can't settlements be built there and people housed there?"So you want to send EU immigrants to Wales and Scotland? What have the poor bastards done to deserve that?
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Sometimes this place really is special." you're part of this place...We all make it what it is. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Am I missing something? Being a human is a right now? If so, do I have a right to decide I'm a cat? Or a bear? This debate is surreal even by the standards of this place. What a ridiculous statement. It falls in line with human rights and the notion that we should all hopefully be treated equally. Havent aliens got rights too. You're a Marsionist "Martianist. I make no bones about being a martianist! Green-skinned, short-arsed, laser-toting bastards, coming over here with their funny clothes and their funny food and abducting and anal-probing good ordinary hard-working British tax-payers! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Am I missing something? Being a human is a right now? If so, do I have a right to decide I'm a cat? Or a bear? This debate is surreal even by the standards of this place. What a ridiculous statement. It falls in line with human rights and the notion that we should all hopefully be treated equally. Havent aliens got rights too. You're a Marsionist
Welcome to LaLa Land, The happy place where everything is free
Gimp
Are there any Plutonians there? I hate those bastards.
They all live on the 3569000th Floor of the Welcome all Tower block, Be Carefull of the smell tho as the Drainage has been buggered since the Bloody Rwandans pulled out of our famous Utopia project
Gimp"The drainage contract should have been given to the Romans. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming.
The Greeks, Romans, Egyptians,Liberians, West Africans, East Africans, North Africans will all be glad to hear that us Colonialists invented Language and Nationalism
Gimp
I said nationalism and nation-States. Not the ideas of language and ethnic identity. The latter two existed before the concepts of nationality and nationalism were invented.
For example...Belgium and Switzerland...both are nation states...there is a Swiss and Belgian 'nationality' and ''nation states'...but there is no Swiss language or Belgian language.
Same goes for bigger states like France where, before the Industrial Age started, there was no one French language but a multitude of similar sounding languages that were all standardised very recently to become that thing we now call 'French', purely for reasons of fostering an invented 'national identity' that didn't really exist before. The same is equally true of English, Spanish and German.
Funny you should mention Africa, seeing as most of the currently existing sub-Saharan African and Asian countries have borders that go across ethnic and language boundaries. Hence the conflicts in places like Rwanda and Nigeria-Biafra. We imposed nationalities and boundaries on areas that did not have them before. Indeed, there was no unified 'India' until the British arrived.
Nope still lost, How does this help the potential overcrowding and breakdown of public services in this country, Or are you now suggesting that we ask Rwanda for help in getting us all to Mars..Again good luck with that Plan
Gimp
Because borders are artificial lines drawn on a map that don't really exist?
And we drew these artificial lines across pre-existing language and national boundaries when we created and then systematically dismantled our Empire?
How could a very large island with plenty of available space possibly become overcrowded? This isn't Hong Kong or Singapore.
Ok i will try and explain this simply, If you have 1000 square foot of land and you place a 1000 square foot building on that space and fill that building with people they will die through lack of food, Medication, Water and basic sewage disposal as there will be nowhere to store those things, Nothing to do with those peoples Ancestors or being on Mars its simply a case of having no space.
Gimp
Again, I never mentioned Mars.
But that's my point-we're not talking about 1000 foot of space, we're not even talking about an overcrowded city-state like Singapore or Hong Kong, we're talking about the ninth biggest Island on the planet. How could we possibly have 'no room'. What about all the empty parts of Scotland. Wales, and other areas? Why can't settlements be built there and people housed there?
So you want to send EU immigrants to Wales and Scotland? What have the poor bastards done to deserve that?
"Why not? The vast majority of the British population lives in England after all. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming.
The Greeks, Romans, Egyptians,Liberians, West Africans, East Africans, North Africans will all be glad to hear that us Colonialists invented Language and Nationalism
Gimp
I said nationalism and nation-States. Not the ideas of language and ethnic identity. The latter two existed before the concepts of nationality and nationalism were invented.
For example...Belgium and Switzerland...both are nation states...there is a Swiss and Belgian 'nationality' and ''nation states'...but there is no Swiss language or Belgian language.
Same goes for bigger states like France where, before the Industrial Age started, there was no one French language but a multitude of similar sounding languages that were all standardised very recently to become that thing we now call 'French', purely for reasons of fostering an invented 'national identity' that didn't really exist before. The same is equally true of English, Spanish and German.
Funny you should mention Africa, seeing as most of the currently existing sub-Saharan African and Asian countries have borders that go across ethnic and language boundaries. Hence the conflicts in places like Rwanda and Nigeria-Biafra. We imposed nationalities and boundaries on areas that did not have them before. Indeed, there was no unified 'India' until the British arrived.
Nope still lost, How does this help the potential overcrowding and breakdown of public services in this country, Or are you now suggesting that we ask Rwanda for help in getting us all to Mars..Again good luck with that Plan
Gimp
Because borders are artificial lines drawn on a map that don't really exist?
And we drew these artificial lines across pre-existing language and national boundaries when we created and then systematically dismantled our Empire?
How could a very large island with plenty of available space possibly become overcrowded? This isn't Hong Kong or Singapore.
Ok i will try and explain this simply, If you have 1000 square foot of land and you place a 1000 square foot building on that space and fill that building with people they will die through lack of food, Medication, Water and basic sewage disposal as there will be nowhere to store those things, Nothing to do with those peoples Ancestors or being on Mars its simply a case of having no space.
Gimp
Again, I never mentioned Mars.
But that's my point-we're not talking about 1000 foot of space, we're not even talking about an overcrowded city-state like Singapore or Hong Kong, we're talking about the ninth biggest Island on the planet. How could we possibly have 'no room'. What about all the empty parts of Scotland. Wales, and other areas? Why can't settlements be built there and people housed there?
So you want to send EU immigrants to Wales and Scotland? What have the poor bastards done to deserve that?
"Lmao and they missed the Scottish vote | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming.
The Greeks, Romans, Egyptians,Liberians, West Africans, East Africans, North Africans will all be glad to hear that us Colonialists invented Language and Nationalism
Gimp
I said nationalism and nation-States. Not the ideas of language and ethnic identity. The latter two existed before the concepts of nationality and nationalism were invented.
For example...Belgium and Switzerland...both are nation states...there is a Swiss and Belgian 'nationality' and ''nation states'...but there is no Swiss language or Belgian language.
Same goes for bigger states like France where, before the Industrial Age started, there was no one French language but a multitude of similar sounding languages that were all standardised very recently to become that thing we now call 'French', purely for reasons of fostering an invented 'national identity' that didn't really exist before. The same is equally true of English, Spanish and German.
Funny you should mention Africa, seeing as most of the currently existing sub-Saharan African and Asian countries have borders that go across ethnic and language boundaries. Hence the conflicts in places like Rwanda and Nigeria-Biafra. We imposed nationalities and boundaries on areas that did not have them before. Indeed, there was no unified 'India' until the British arrived.
Nope still lost, How does this help the potential overcrowding and breakdown of public services in this country, Or are you now suggesting that we ask Rwanda for help in getting us all to Mars..Again good luck with that Plan
Gimp
Because borders are artificial lines drawn on a map that don't really exist?
And we drew these artificial lines across pre-existing language and national boundaries when we created and then systematically dismantled our Empire?
How could a very large island with plenty of available space possibly become overcrowded? This isn't Hong Kong or Singapore.
Ok i will try and explain this simply, If you have 1000 square foot of land and you place a 1000 square foot building on that space and fill that building with people they will die through lack of food, Medication, Water and basic sewage disposal as there will be nowhere to store those things, Nothing to do with those peoples Ancestors or being on Mars its simply a case of having no space.
Gimp
Again, I never mentioned Mars.
But that's my point-we're not talking about 1000 foot of space, we're not even talking about an overcrowded city-state like Singapore or Hong Kong, we're talking about the ninth biggest Island on the planet. How could we possibly have 'no room'. What about all the empty parts of Scotland. Wales, and other areas? Why can't settlements be built there and people housed there?"Ok Simpler, You build on all these free spaces, Concrete everything over, Lose the Fields, Lose the Trees, Lose the natural Rainwater Runoffs= One massive disaster and the end of a population because you cannot feed water or heat them. Welcome to the real world. Gimp | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming.
The Greeks, Romans, Egyptians,Liberians, West Africans, East Africans, North Africans will all be glad to hear that us Colonialists invented Language and Nationalism
Gimp
I said nationalism and nation-States. Not the ideas of language and ethnic identity. The latter two existed before the concepts of nationality and nationalism were invented.
For example...Belgium and Switzerland...both are nation states...there is a Swiss and Belgian 'nationality' and ''nation states'...but there is no Swiss language or Belgian language.
Same goes for bigger states like France where, before the Industrial Age started, there was no one French language but a multitude of similar sounding languages that were all standardised very recently to become that thing we now call 'French', purely for reasons of fostering an invented 'national identity' that didn't really exist before. The same is equally true of English, Spanish and German.
Funny you should mention Africa, seeing as most of the currently existing sub-Saharan African and Asian countries have borders that go across ethnic and language boundaries. Hence the conflicts in places like Rwanda and Nigeria-Biafra. We imposed nationalities and boundaries on areas that did not have them before. Indeed, there was no unified 'India' until the British arrived.
Nope still lost, How does this help the potential overcrowding and breakdown of public services in this country, Or are you now suggesting that we ask Rwanda for help in getting us all to Mars..Again good luck with that Plan
Gimp
Because borders are artificial lines drawn on a map that don't really exist?
And we drew these artificial lines across pre-existing language and national boundaries when we created and then systematically dismantled our Empire?
How could a very large island with plenty of available space possibly become overcrowded? This isn't Hong Kong or Singapore.
Ok i will try and explain this simply, If you have 1000 square foot of land and you place a 1000 square foot building on that space and fill that building with people they will die through lack of food, Medication, Water and basic sewage disposal as there will be nowhere to store those things, Nothing to do with those peoples Ancestors or being on Mars its simply a case of having no space.
Gimp
Again, I never mentioned Mars.
But that's my point-we're not talking about 1000 foot of space, we're not even talking about an overcrowded city-state like Singapore or Hong Kong, we're talking about the ninth biggest Island on the planet. How could we possibly have 'no room'. What about all the empty parts of Scotland. Wales, and other areas? Why can't settlements be built there and people housed there?
Ok Simpler, You build on all these free spaces, Concrete everything over, Lose the Fields, Lose the Trees, Lose the natural Rainwater Runoffs= One massive disaster and the end of a population because you cannot feed water or heat them.
Welcome to the real world.
Gimp"This would never happen on Mars, planning regs are very strict. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming.
The Greeks, Romans, Egyptians,Liberians, West Africans, East Africans, North Africans will all be glad to hear that us Colonialists invented Language and Nationalism
Gimp
I said nationalism and nation-States. Not the ideas of language and ethnic identity. The latter two existed before the concepts of nationality and nationalism were invented.
For example...Belgium and Switzerland...both are nation states...there is a Swiss and Belgian 'nationality' and ''nation states'...but there is no Swiss language or Belgian language.
Same goes for bigger states like France where, before the Industrial Age started, there was no one French language but a multitude of similar sounding languages that were all standardised very recently to become that thing we now call 'French', purely for reasons of fostering an invented 'national identity' that didn't really exist before. The same is equally true of English, Spanish and German.
Funny you should mention Africa, seeing as most of the currently existing sub-Saharan African and Asian countries have borders that go across ethnic and language boundaries. Hence the conflicts in places like Rwanda and Nigeria-Biafra. We imposed nationalities and boundaries on areas that did not have them before. Indeed, there was no unified 'India' until the British arrived.
Nope still lost, How does this help the potential overcrowding and breakdown of public services in this country, Or are you now suggesting that we ask Rwanda for help in getting us all to Mars..Again good luck with that Plan
Gimp
Because borders are artificial lines drawn on a map that don't really exist?
And we drew these artificial lines across pre-existing language and national boundaries when we created and then systematically dismantled our Empire?
How could a very large island with plenty of available space possibly become overcrowded? This isn't Hong Kong or Singapore.
Ok i will try and explain this simply, If you have 1000 square foot of land and you place a 1000 square foot building on that space and fill that building with people they will die through lack of food, Medication, Water and basic sewage disposal as there will be nowhere to store those things, Nothing to do with those peoples Ancestors or being on Mars its simply a case of having no space.
Gimp
Again, I never mentioned Mars.
But that's my point-we're not talking about 1000 foot of space, we're not even talking about an overcrowded city-state like Singapore or Hong Kong, we're talking about the ninth biggest Island on the planet. How could we possibly have 'no room'. What about all the empty parts of Scotland. Wales, and other areas? Why can't settlements be built there and people housed there?
Ok Simpler, You build on all these free spaces, Concrete everything over, Lose the Fields, Lose the Trees, Lose the natural Rainwater Runoffs= One massive disaster and the end of a population because you cannot feed water or heat them.
Welcome to the real world.
Gimp"You're obviously not going to concrete over every last bit of the Highlands and the Western Isles. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming.
The Greeks, Romans, Egyptians,Liberians, West Africans, East Africans, North Africans will all be glad to hear that us Colonialists invented Language and Nationalism
Gimp
I said nationalism and nation-States. Not the ideas of language and ethnic identity. The latter two existed before the concepts of nationality and nationalism were invented.
For example...Belgium and Switzerland...both are nation states...there is a Swiss and Belgian 'nationality' and ''nation states'...but there is no Swiss language or Belgian language.
Same goes for bigger states like France where, before the Industrial Age started, there was no one French language but a multitude of similar sounding languages that were all standardised very recently to become that thing we now call 'French', purely for reasons of fostering an invented 'national identity' that didn't really exist before. The same is equally true of English, Spanish and German.
Funny you should mention Africa, seeing as most of the currently existing sub-Saharan African and Asian countries have borders that go across ethnic and language boundaries. Hence the conflicts in places like Rwanda and Nigeria-Biafra. We imposed nationalities and boundaries on areas that did not have them before. Indeed, there was no unified 'India' until the British arrived.
Nope still lost, How does this help the potential overcrowding and breakdown of public services in this country, Or are you now suggesting that we ask Rwanda for help in getting us all to Mars..Again good luck with that Plan
Gimp
Because borders are artificial lines drawn on a map that don't really exist?
And we drew these artificial lines across pre-existing language and national boundaries when we created and then systematically dismantled our Empire?
How could a very large island with plenty of available space possibly become overcrowded? This isn't Hong Kong or Singapore.
Ok i will try and explain this simply, If you have 1000 square foot of land and you place a 1000 square foot building on that space and fill that building with people they will die through lack of food, Medication, Water and basic sewage disposal as there will be nowhere to store those things, Nothing to do with those peoples Ancestors or being on Mars its simply a case of having no space.
Gimp
Again, I never mentioned Mars.
But that's my point-we're not talking about 1000 foot of space, we're not even talking about an overcrowded city-state like Singapore or Hong Kong, we're talking about the ninth biggest Island on the planet. How could we possibly have 'no room'. What about all the empty parts of Scotland. Wales, and other areas? Why can't settlements be built there and people housed there?
Ok Simpler, You build on all these free spaces, Concrete everything over, Lose the Fields, Lose the Trees, Lose the natural Rainwater Runoffs= One massive disaster and the end of a population because you cannot feed water or heat them.
Welcome to the real world.
Gimp
This would never happen on Mars, planning regs are very strict. "Ahh but those Magic Mushrooms are Free
Gimp | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming.
The Greeks, Romans, Egyptians,Liberians, West Africans, East Africans, North Africans will all be glad to hear that us Colonialists invented Language and Nationalism
Gimp
I said nationalism and nation-States. Not the ideas of language and ethnic identity. The latter two existed before the concepts of nationality and nationalism were invented.
For example...Belgium and Switzerland...both are nation states...there is a Swiss and Belgian 'nationality' and ''nation states'...but there is no Swiss language or Belgian language.
Same goes for bigger states like France where, before the Industrial Age started, there was no one French language but a multitude of similar sounding languages that were all standardised very recently to become that thing we now call 'French', purely for reasons of fostering an invented 'national identity' that didn't really exist before. The same is equally true of English, Spanish and German.
Funny you should mention Africa, seeing as most of the currently existing sub-Saharan African and Asian countries have borders that go across ethnic and language boundaries. Hence the conflicts in places like Rwanda and Nigeria-Biafra. We imposed nationalities and boundaries on areas that did not have them before. Indeed, there was no unified 'India' until the British arrived.
Nope still lost, How does this help the potential overcrowding and breakdown of public services in this country, Or are you now suggesting that we ask Rwanda for help in getting us all to Mars..Again good luck with that Plan
Gimp
Because borders are artificial lines drawn on a map that don't really exist?
And we drew these artificial lines across pre-existing language and national boundaries when we created and then systematically dismantled our Empire?
How could a very large island with plenty of available space possibly become overcrowded? This isn't Hong Kong or Singapore.
Ok i will try and explain this simply, If you have 1000 square foot of land and you place a 1000 square foot building on that space and fill that building with people they will die through lack of food, Medication, Water and basic sewage disposal as there will be nowhere to store those things, Nothing to do with those peoples Ancestors or being on Mars its simply a case of having no space.
Gimp
Again, I never mentioned Mars.
But that's my point-we're not talking about 1000 foot of space, we're not even talking about an overcrowded city-state like Singapore or Hong Kong, we're talking about the ninth biggest Island on the planet. How could we possibly have 'no room'. What about all the empty parts of Scotland. Wales, and other areas? Why can't settlements be built there and people housed there?
Ok Simpler, You build on all these free spaces, Concrete everything over, Lose the Fields, Lose the Trees, Lose the natural Rainwater Runoffs= One massive disaster and the end of a population because you cannot feed water or heat them.
Welcome to the real world.
Gimp
You're obviously not going to concrete over every last bit of the Highlands and the Western Isles."Well where then? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming.
The Greeks, Romans, Egyptians,Liberians, West Africans, East Africans, North Africans will all be glad to hear that us Colonialists invented Language and Nationalism
Gimp
I said nationalism and nation-States. Not the ideas of language and ethnic identity. The latter two existed before the concepts of nationality and nationalism were invented.
For example...Belgium and Switzerland...both are nation states...there is a Swiss and Belgian 'nationality' and ''nation states'...but there is no Swiss language or Belgian language.
Same goes for bigger states like France where, before the Industrial Age started, there was no one French language but a multitude of similar sounding languages that were all standardised very recently to become that thing we now call 'French', purely for reasons of fostering an invented 'national identity' that didn't really exist before. The same is equally true of English, Spanish and German.
Funny you should mention Africa, seeing as most of the currently existing sub-Saharan African and Asian countries have borders that go across ethnic and language boundaries. Hence the conflicts in places like Rwanda and Nigeria-Biafra. We imposed nationalities and boundaries on areas that did not have them before. Indeed, there was no unified 'India' until the British arrived.
Nope still lost, How does this help the potential overcrowding and breakdown of public services in this country, Or are you now suggesting that we ask Rwanda for help in getting us all to Mars..Again good luck with that Plan
Gimp
Because borders are artificial lines drawn on a map that don't really exist?
And we drew these artificial lines across pre-existing language and national boundaries when we created and then systematically dismantled our Empire?
How could a very large island with plenty of available space possibly become overcrowded? This isn't Hong Kong or Singapore.
Ok i will try and explain this simply, If you have 1000 square foot of land and you place a 1000 square foot building on that space and fill that building with people they will die through lack of food, Medication, Water and basic sewage disposal as there will be nowhere to store those things, Nothing to do with those peoples Ancestors or being on Mars its simply a case of having no space.
Gimp
Again, I never mentioned Mars.
But that's my point-we're not talking about 1000 foot of space, we're not even talking about an overcrowded city-state like Singapore or Hong Kong, we're talking about the ninth biggest Island on the planet. How could we possibly have 'no room'. What about all the empty parts of Scotland. Wales, and other areas? Why can't settlements be built there and people housed there?
Ok Simpler, You build on all these free spaces, Concrete everything over, Lose the Fields, Lose the Trees, Lose the natural Rainwater Runoffs= One massive disaster and the end of a population because you cannot feed water or heat them.
Welcome to the real world.
Gimp
You're obviously not going to concrete over every last bit of the Highlands and the Western Isles."Obviously not some may want log cabins or prefer caravaning | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming.
The Greeks, Romans, Egyptians,Liberians, West Africans, East Africans, North Africans will all be glad to hear that us Colonialists invented Language and Nationalism
Gimp
I said nationalism and nation-States. Not the ideas of language and ethnic identity. The latter two existed before the concepts of nationality and nationalism were invented.
For example...Belgium and Switzerland...both are nation states...there is a Swiss and Belgian 'nationality' and ''nation states'...but there is no Swiss language or Belgian language.
Same goes for bigger states like France where, before the Industrial Age started, there was no one French language but a multitude of similar sounding languages that were all standardised very recently to become that thing we now call 'French', purely for reasons of fostering an invented 'national identity' that didn't really exist before. The same is equally true of English, Spanish and German.
Funny you should mention Africa, seeing as most of the currently existing sub-Saharan African and Asian countries have borders that go across ethnic and language boundaries. Hence the conflicts in places like Rwanda and Nigeria-Biafra. We imposed nationalities and boundaries on areas that did not have them before. Indeed, there was no unified 'India' until the British arrived.
Nope still lost, How does this help the potential overcrowding and breakdown of public services in this country, Or are you now suggesting that we ask Rwanda for help in getting us all to Mars..Again good luck with that Plan
Gimp
Because borders are artificial lines drawn on a map that don't really exist?
And we drew these artificial lines across pre-existing language and national boundaries when we created and then systematically dismantled our Empire?
How could a very large island with plenty of available space possibly become overcrowded? This isn't Hong Kong or Singapore.
Ok i will try and explain this simply, If you have 1000 square foot of land and you place a 1000 square foot building on that space and fill that building with people they will die through lack of food, Medication, Water and basic sewage disposal as there will be nowhere to store those things, Nothing to do with those peoples Ancestors or being on Mars its simply a case of having no space.
Gimp
Again, I never mentioned Mars.
But that's my point-we're not talking about 1000 foot of space, we're not even talking about an overcrowded city-state like Singapore or Hong Kong, we're talking about the ninth biggest Island on the planet. How could we possibly have 'no room'. What about all the empty parts of Scotland. Wales, and other areas? Why can't settlements be built there and people housed there?
Ok Simpler, You build on all these free spaces, Concrete everything over, Lose the Fields, Lose the Trees, Lose the natural Rainwater Runoffs= One massive disaster and the end of a population because you cannot feed water or heat them.
Welcome to the real world.
Gimp
You're obviously not going to concrete over every last bit of the Highlands and the Western Isles.
Well where then?"I mean we're obviously not going to deforest areas and build on greenbelt areas to the extent that it would cause a nation-side ecological disaster. Most of Scotland and large areas of England and Wales are empty. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Has anyone started building the tower blocks or digging the caves yet, there's another ferry due in at 12" Nope but I ve heard there's bedrooms free in Lincoln | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming.
The Greeks, Romans, Egyptians,Liberians, West Africans, East Africans, North Africans will all be glad to hear that us Colonialists invented Language and Nationalism
Gimp
I said nationalism and nation-States. Not the ideas of language and ethnic identity. The latter two existed before the concepts of nationality and nationalism were invented.
For example...Belgium and Switzerland...both are nation states...there is a Swiss and Belgian 'nationality' and ''nation states'...but there is no Swiss language or Belgian language.
Same goes for bigger states like France where, before the Industrial Age started, there was no one French language but a multitude of similar sounding languages that were all standardised very recently to become that thing we now call 'French', purely for reasons of fostering an invented 'national identity' that didn't really exist before. The same is equally true of English, Spanish and German.
Funny you should mention Africa, seeing as most of the currently existing sub-Saharan African and Asian countries have borders that go across ethnic and language boundaries. Hence the conflicts in places like Rwanda and Nigeria-Biafra. We imposed nationalities and boundaries on areas that did not have them before. Indeed, there was no unified 'India' until the British arrived.
Nope still lost, How does this help the potential overcrowding and breakdown of public services in this country, Or are you now suggesting that we ask Rwanda for help in getting us all to Mars..Again good luck with that Plan
Gimp
Because borders are artificial lines drawn on a map that don't really exist?
And we drew these artificial lines across pre-existing language and national boundaries when we created and then systematically dismantled our Empire?
How could a very large island with plenty of available space possibly become overcrowded? This isn't Hong Kong or Singapore.
Ok i will try and explain this simply, If you have 1000 square foot of land and you place a 1000 square foot building on that space and fill that building with people they will die through lack of food, Medication, Water and basic sewage disposal as there will be nowhere to store those things, Nothing to do with those peoples Ancestors or being on Mars its simply a case of having no space.
Gimp
Again, I never mentioned Mars.
But that's my point-we're not talking about 1000 foot of space, we're not even talking about an overcrowded city-state like Singapore or Hong Kong, we're talking about the ninth biggest Island on the planet. How could we possibly have 'no room'. What about all the empty parts of Scotland. Wales, and other areas? Why can't settlements be built there and people housed there?
Ok Simpler, You build on all these free spaces, Concrete everything over, Lose the Fields, Lose the Trees, Lose the natural Rainwater Runoffs= One massive disaster and the end of a population because you cannot feed water or heat them.
Welcome to the real world.
Gimp
You're obviously not going to concrete over every last bit of the Highlands and the Western Isles.
Well where then?
I mean we're obviously not going to deforest areas and build on greenbelt areas to the extent that it would cause a nation-side ecological disaster. Most of Scotland and large areas of England and Wales are empty."Maybe because there are no jobs or infrastructure there? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming.
The Greeks, Romans, Egyptians,Liberians, West Africans, East Africans, North Africans will all be glad to hear that us Colonialists invented Language and Nationalism
Gimp
I said nationalism and nation-States. Not the ideas of language and ethnic identity. The latter two existed before the concepts of nationality and nationalism were invented.
For example...Belgium and Switzerland...both are nation states...there is a Swiss and Belgian 'nationality' and ''nation states'...but there is no Swiss language or Belgian language.
Same goes for bigger states like France where, before the Industrial Age started, there was no one French language but a multitude of similar sounding languages that were all standardised very recently to become that thing we now call 'French', purely for reasons of fostering an invented 'national identity' that didn't really exist before. The same is equally true of English, Spanish and German.
Funny you should mention Africa, seeing as most of the currently existing sub-Saharan African and Asian countries have borders that go across ethnic and language boundaries. Hence the conflicts in places like Rwanda and Nigeria-Biafra. We imposed nationalities and boundaries on areas that did not have them before. Indeed, there was no unified 'India' until the British arrived.
Nope still lost, How does this help the potential overcrowding and breakdown of public services in this country, Or are you now suggesting that we ask Rwanda for help in getting us all to Mars..Again good luck with that Plan
Gimp
Because borders are artificial lines drawn on a map that don't really exist?
And we drew these artificial lines across pre-existing language and national boundaries when we created and then systematically dismantled our Empire?
How could a very large island with plenty of available space possibly become overcrowded? This isn't Hong Kong or Singapore.
Ok i will try and explain this simply, If you have 1000 square foot of land and you place a 1000 square foot building on that space and fill that building with people they will die through lack of food, Medication, Water and basic sewage disposal as there will be nowhere to store those things, Nothing to do with those peoples Ancestors or being on Mars its simply a case of having no space.
Gimp
Again, I never mentioned Mars.
But that's my point-we're not talking about 1000 foot of space, we're not even talking about an overcrowded city-state like Singapore or Hong Kong, we're talking about the ninth biggest Island on the planet. How could we possibly have 'no room'. What about all the empty parts of Scotland. Wales, and other areas? Why can't settlements be built there and people housed there?
Ok Simpler, You build on all these free spaces, Concrete everything over, Lose the Fields, Lose the Trees, Lose the natural Rainwater Runoffs= One massive disaster and the end of a population because you cannot feed water or heat them.
Welcome to the real world.
Gimp
You're obviously not going to concrete over every last bit of the Highlands and the Western Isles.
Well where then?
I mean we're obviously not going to deforest areas and build on greenbelt areas to the extent that it would cause a nation-side ecological disaster. Most of Scotland and large areas of England and Wales are empty.
Maybe because there are no jobs or infrastructure there?"Yet | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"And as for the people didn't fight pre 18th century over nationalism, you're probably right but they faced different challenges and environment's. Stick a thousand people on a cruise ship with restaurant's and cinemas and bunks and everyone's rather happy and loving. Throw them all over board with a few life rafts to cater for them and watch dog eat dog and forget all about their niceties.We either need to develop and realise nationalism is a thing of the past or realise it's all getting rather ugly. Nationalism wasn't necessary in a pre-industrial society because the upper class was in control, not the middle classes. Once we got into the Industrial Age the middle classes were the ones who were in charge of industry as well as the government so they needed some way of getting the working classes to basically do what they wanted. They couldn't use religion as a way of getting people to do that as by the time we got into the Industrial Age attitudes to religion had changed. So instead nationalism was used as a way of getting all people to rally round a common cause. Pre-18th century, most wars were about religion, because society was feudal and pre-industrial. Post-industrial revolution, most wars are about nationalism instead. So all the major wars of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries-the American and French revolutionary wars, the napoleonic wars, and both world wars were all about nationalism rather than religion. I think you have rather missed the point, this is not about nationalism, it is about an ever increasing population without sufficient infrastructure to support it. Dreaming about populating Mars as a long term solution is your prerogative, but there are major issues that need to be considered in the here and now. I didn't mention Mars. But that's my point...in light of nationalism becoming increasingly a thing of the past, why does it matter whether so and so is an immigrant or not? Why does it matter that someone wasn't born here? They're still a human being as much as the ones who were born here. And, to some degree, isn't the development of continental federal unions like the European Union and the African Union just a step towards a one-world state anyway?" You are totally missing the point, again. This is not an issue or race, creed or colour. It is an issue of this particular country being unable to support the numbers of people living here with its current infrastructure. With the trend towards further population growth in the short term and without several hundreds of billions of investment there is going to be a major problem. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
 | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming.
The Greeks, Romans, Egyptians,Liberians, West Africans, East Africans, North Africans will all be glad to hear that us Colonialists invented Language and Nationalism
Gimp
I said nationalism and nation-States. Not the ideas of language and ethnic identity. The latter two existed before the concepts of nationality and nationalism were invented.
For example...Belgium and Switzerland...both are nation states...there is a Swiss and Belgian 'nationality' and ''nation states'...but there is no Swiss language or Belgian language.
Same goes for bigger states like France where, before the Industrial Age started, there was no one French language but a multitude of similar sounding languages that were all standardised very recently to become that thing we now call 'French', purely for reasons of fostering an invented 'national identity' that didn't really exist before. The same is equally true of English, Spanish and German.
Funny you should mention Africa, seeing as most of the currently existing sub-Saharan African and Asian countries have borders that go across ethnic and language boundaries. Hence the conflicts in places like Rwanda and Nigeria-Biafra. We imposed nationalities and boundaries on areas that did not have them before. Indeed, there was no unified 'India' until the British arrived.
Nope still lost, How does this help the potential overcrowding and breakdown of public services in this country, Or are you now suggesting that we ask Rwanda for help in getting us all to Mars..Again good luck with that Plan
Gimp
Because borders are artificial lines drawn on a map that don't really exist?
And we drew these artificial lines across pre-existing language and national boundaries when we created and then systematically dismantled our Empire?
How could a very large island with plenty of available space possibly become overcrowded? This isn't Hong Kong or Singapore.
Ok i will try and explain this simply, If you have 1000 square foot of land and you place a 1000 square foot building on that space and fill that building with people they will die through lack of food, Medication, Water and basic sewage disposal as there will be nowhere to store those things, Nothing to do with those peoples Ancestors or being on Mars its simply a case of having no space.
Gimp
Again, I never mentioned Mars.
But that's my point-we're not talking about 1000 foot of space, we're not even talking about an overcrowded city-state like Singapore or Hong Kong, we're talking about the ninth biggest Island on the planet. How could we possibly have 'no room'. What about all the empty parts of Scotland. Wales, and other areas? Why can't settlements be built there and people housed there?
Ok Simpler, You build on all these free spaces, Concrete everything over, Lose the Fields, Lose the Trees, Lose the natural Rainwater Runoffs= One massive disaster and the end of a population because you cannot feed water or heat them.
Welcome to the real world.
Gimp
You're obviously not going to concrete over every last bit of the Highlands and the Western Isles.
Well where then?
I mean we're obviously not going to deforest areas and build on greenbelt areas to the extent that it would cause a nation-side ecological disaster. Most of Scotland and large areas of England and Wales are empty."So were Australia, America, New Zealand, South Africa, before those damned British arrived with their infernal steamy things in the 18th century | |||
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"the ultra left wing is never going to be happy until all the green belt and heritage buildings are raised to the ground and replaced with one massive giant concrete jungle and ghetto full of of chaos and misery..if they get there way the UK will turn into a 3rd world country very fast. "Who mentioned the ultra left wing? | |||
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"So your answer to the problem is let everyone into this Country (No Controls) and make space by expanding the Country. How can that plan fail
Gimp
nope, not my plan at all.
Besides, like I said earlier, we tried that idea before with that little thing called the British Empire and where did that leave us?
so what is your plan??
In the long term; ultimately it won't matter as eventually humanity will unify and colonise the rest of the solar system. But at the end of the day, nationalities and nation states are artificial constructs. We're all really human at the end of the day.
Like that right-winger Ronald Reagan said, if humanity faced something from space (by which I don't mean aliens)-or on the Earth itself for that matter-that threatened to wipe out all of humanity, all of our little tiny problems and differences or religion and race suddenly wouldn't matter. So why do they matter now?
Our descendents will no doubt laugh at the folly of us scrapping over these little insigificant parts of our planet rather than unifying, bashing our heads together and getting our priorities as a species right.
thank you for that very helpful contribution
Oh, I'm sorry, Forgive me for thinking that stopping the planet from dying and our survival as a species is marginally more important than squabbling over minute differences of language and nationality (all of which we made up anyway.) Borders are just made-up lines on a map. Literally.
Nation-States and nationalism are relics of the Industrial Age (and certainly weren't important in the pre-Industrial Age) . They are largely irrelevant in the post-industrial society we are fast becoming.
The Greeks, Romans, Egyptians,Liberians, West Africans, East Africans, North Africans will all be glad to hear that us Colonialists invented Language and Nationalism
Gimp
I said nationalism and nation-States. Not the ideas of language and ethnic identity. The latter two existed before the concepts of nationality and nationalism were invented.
For example...Belgium and Switzerland...both are nation states...there is a Swiss and Belgian 'nationality' and ''nation states'...but there is no Swiss language or Belgian language.
Same goes for bigger states like France where, before the Industrial Age started, there was no one French language but a multitude of similar sounding languages that were all standardised very recently to become that thing we now call 'French', purely for reasons of fostering an invented 'national identity' that didn't really exist before. The same is equally true of English, Spanish and German.
Funny you should mention Africa, seeing as most of the currently existing sub-Saharan African and Asian countries have borders that go across ethnic and language boundaries. Hence the conflicts in places like Rwanda and Nigeria-Biafra. We imposed nationalities and boundaries on areas that did not have them before. Indeed, there was no unified 'India' until the British arrived.
Nope still lost, How does this help the potential overcrowding and breakdown of public services in this country, Or are you now suggesting that we ask Rwanda for help in getting us all to Mars..Again good luck with that Plan
Gimp
Because borders are artificial lines drawn on a map that don't really exist?
And we drew these artificial lines across pre-existing language and national boundaries when we created and then systematically dismantled our Empire?
How could a very large island with plenty of available space possibly become overcrowded? This isn't Hong Kong or Singapore.
Ok i will try and explain this simply, If you have 1000 square foot of land and you place a 1000 square foot building on that space and fill that building with people they will die through lack of food, Medication, Water and basic sewage disposal as there will be nowhere to store those things, Nothing to do with those peoples Ancestors or being on Mars its simply a case of having no space.
Gimp
Again, I never mentioned Mars.
But that's my point-we're not talking about 1000 foot of space, we're not even talking about an overcrowded city-state like Singapore or Hong Kong, we're talking about the ninth biggest Island on the planet. How could we possibly have 'no room'. What about all the empty parts of Scotland. Wales, and other areas? Why can't settlements be built there and people housed there?
Ok Simpler, You build on all these free spaces, Concrete everything over, Lose the Fields, Lose the Trees, Lose the natural Rainwater Runoffs= One massive disaster and the end of a population because you cannot feed water or heat them.
Welcome to the real world.
Gimp
You're obviously not going to concrete over every last bit of the Highlands and the Western Isles.
Well where then?
I mean we're obviously not going to deforest areas and build on greenbelt areas to the extent that it would cause a nation-side ecological disaster. Most of Scotland and large areas of England and Wales are empty.
Maybe because there are no jobs or infrastructure there?
Yet"But why would we spend billions on new houses, infructure etc to accommodate immigrants, when we can simply try to renegotiate our terms with the EU and restrict immigration? PS. I doubt the Scots and Welsh could appreciate their countries paved over just so we can accommodate Lithuanians (other EU immigrants are available) | |||
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"Has anyone started building the tower blocks or digging the caves yet, there's another ferry due in at 12 Nope but I ve heard there's bedrooms free in Lincoln "Single beds There no good... | |||
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"Uh...the UK is full?!? in comparison with the rest of the EU states per square kilometer of surface area per head of population, Yeah!
Build up-or build down. Whichever; there is always room.
are you prepared to fund all this massive building work through extra Taxes.
Gimp
Well seeing as the government is never transparent about what my and everyone else's taxes are actually spent on, how would I know?
Funny how people who complain about taxes going on benefits for the needy and the NHS (y'know, things that actually help people) don't seem to mind it being spent on trident missiles."Bit of an assumption on your part. But yeah. As you don't seem to mind us being full....let's send em all to live in your garden. If nothing is done then Enoch Powell Speech will prove to be a massive understatement | |||
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"the ultra left wing is never going to be happy until all the green belt and heritage buildings are raised to the ground and replaced with one massive giant concrete jungle and ghetto full of of chaos and misery..if they get there way the UK will turn into a 3rd world country very fast.
Who mentioned the ultra left wing?"I did earlier, because that's how you come across. You should get in quick and corner the market on red flags that you can fly above your tower blocks. Oops silly me, that's capitalism, and its not allowed | |||
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"the ultra left wing is never going to be happy until all the green belt and heritage buildings are raised to the ground and replaced with one massive giant concrete jungle and ghetto full of of chaos and misery..if they get there way the UK will turn into a 3rd world country very fast.
Who mentioned the ultra left wing?
I did earlier, because that's how you come across.
You should get in quick and corner the market on red flags that you can fly above your tower blocks.
Oops silly me, that's capitalism, and its not allowed"That's great, but I'm certainly not a left-winger and certainly not a socialist either, quite the opposite in fact (but I'm by no means far-right) | |||
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"oops..i forgot to mention the gulags they will most likely build also to house folk who don't agree with there one party ideology.. "Again, not a left-winger, not to mention vehemently anti-communist. If there's one thing I dislike, it's 'champagne socialists' and I am certainly not a supporter of Labour or any other far-left, left-wing or centre-right party. | |||
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"Still nobody has answered my question as to how a 88,745 square mile island could possibly become overcrowded with a population of 64.1 million people." Quite easily, use this Island as a prime example | |||
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"the ultra left wing is never going to be happy until all the green belt and heritage buildings are raised to the ground and replaced with one massive giant concrete jungle and ghetto full of of chaos and misery..if they get there way the UK will turn into a 3rd world country very fast.
Who mentioned the ultra left wing?
I did earlier, because that's how you come across.
You should get in quick and corner the market on red flags that you can fly above your tower blocks.
Oops silly me, that's capitalism, and its not allowed"What's wrong with capitalism? It works doesn't it? As a mode of production it far outstripped communism. Hell, even China have adopted free market economics (meaning they'll soon outstrip the USA in terms of GDP) so that must say something for capitalism. | |||
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"Still nobody has answered my question as to how a 88,745 square mile island could possibly become overcrowded with a population of 64.1 million people." I think people want to sustain a certain standard of life and the more people here, the lower the standard of living will become is the popular perception. If you travel the world you will see that our cities and roads and hospitals, schools, shops etc etc are quite packed and straining. Yes we could take more people but only by making sacrifices. That's another subject of course. | |||
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"Still nobody has answered my question as to how a 88,745 square mile island could possibly become overcrowded with a population of 64.1 million people. Quite easily, use this Island as a prime example" 64.1 million, divided by 88,745 equals 7,222.9 people per square mile. | |||
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"Still nobody has answered my question as to how a 88,745 square mile island could possibly become overcrowded with a population of 64.1 million people. I think people want to sustain a certain standard of life and the more people here, the lower the standard of living will become is the popular perception. If you travel the world you will see that our cities and roads and hospitals, schools, shops etc etc are quite packed and straining. Yes we could take more people but only by making sacrifices. That's another subject of course." Or we divert money from stuff we don't actually need. We need hospitals, we need schools, we need some kind of provision for the disabled, the ill and the elderly. We do not need it for weapons, or supporting those who can and should work. | |||
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"Still nobody has answered my question as to how a 88,745 square mile island could possibly become overcrowded with a population of 64.1 million people. Quite easily, use this Island as a prime example 64.1 million, divided by 88,745 equals 7,222.9 people per square mile." Now subtract the uninhabitable places like mountain regions, bog land, lakes, forests etc | |||
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"Still nobody has answered my question as to how a 88,745 square mile island could possibly become overcrowded with a population of 64.1 million people. Quite easily, use this Island as a prime example 64.1 million, divided by 88,745 equals 7,222.9 people per square mile. Now subtract the uninhabitable places like mountain regions, bog land, lakes, forests etc" Which aren't uninhabitable... | |||
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"Still nobody has answered my question as to how a 88,745 square mile island could possibly become overcrowded with a population of 64.1 million people. Quite easily, use this Island as a prime example 64.1 million, divided by 88,745 equals 7,222.9 people per square mile." you are again totally missing the point, perhaps you are being deliberately obtuse. With our current infrastructure we are at a point where we have too many people. Only a massive spend on housing, transport, schools and hospitals can sustain the expected further growth in population and there is no cash. So if the EU wishes to maintain open borders it needs to review the countries most impacted by free movement of people and invest in those countries to support the population, or restrict the free movement of people. | |||
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"Still nobody has answered my question as to how a 88,745 square mile island could possibly become overcrowded with a population of 64.1 million people." land not fit to build on , infrastructure , energy supplies , food and water supplies , quality of life and general cohesion of the population 72/73 million people within 30 years Where do you think population growth should end ? | |||
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"Still nobody has answered my question as to how a 88,745 square mile island could possibly become overcrowded with a population of 64.1 million people. I think people want to sustain a certain standard of life and the more people here, the lower the standard of living will become is the popular perception. If you travel the world you will see that our cities and roads and hospitals, schools, shops etc etc are quite packed and straining. Yes we could take more people but only by making sacrifices. That's another subject of course. Or we divert money from stuff we don't actually need. We need hospitals, we need schools, we need some kind of provision for the disabled, the ill and the elderly. We do not need it for weapons, or supporting those who can and should work." No defence, behave, Belgium would be the 1st in line to invade us. nah on second thoughts they don't have to, they already run our country (Brussels) | |||
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"Still nobody has answered my question as to how a 88,745 square mile island could possibly become overcrowded with a population of 64.1 million people. Quite easily, use this Island as a prime example 64.1 million, divided by 88,745 equals 7,222.9 people per square mile. Now subtract the uninhabitable places like mountain regions, bog land, lakes, forests etc Which aren't uninhabitable..." No log cabin sorry but we do have a nice bog we can show you lmao  | |||
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"Still nobody has answered my question as to how a 88,745 square mile island could possibly become overcrowded with a population of 64.1 million people. land not fit to build on , infrastructure , energy supplies , food and water supplies , quality of life and general cohesion of the population 72/73 million people within 30 years Where do you think population growth should end ?" Malthusian economics? | |||
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" Yes sensible theory but realistically we probably do need weapons etc. Sadly the world isn't always a nice place and a deterrent to others is needed. Granted we could review how we employ those forces and spend the budget. " Weapons to defend us from who, exactly? Don't forget, compared to the continental powers, Britain never had a big army, because there was no need. Britain has only ever needed a small army for the precise reason that we are an island fortress, which is why Napoleon and Hitler overran the rest of Europe with the exception of us. | |||
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"Still nobody has answered my question as to how a 88,745 square mile island could possibly become overcrowded with a population of 64.1 million people. I think people want to sustain a certain standard of life and the more people here, the lower the standard of living will become is the popular perception. If you travel the world you will see that our cities and roads and hospitals, schools, shops etc etc are quite packed and straining. Yes we could take more people but only by making sacrifices. That's another subject of course. Or we divert money from stuff we don't actually need. We need hospitals, we need schools, we need some kind of provision for the disabled, the ill and the elderly. We do not need it for weapons, or supporting those who can and should work. No defence, behave, Belgium would be the 1st in line to invade us. nah on second thoughts they don't have to, they already run our country (Brussels) " Switzerland has been neutral since 1815. Every Swiss citizen is given compulsory weapons training. And Switzerland has been invaded how many times since 1815 without a standing army? | |||
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" Yes sensible theory but realistically we probably do need weapons etc. Sadly the world isn't always a nice place and a deterrent to others is needed. Granted we could review how we employ those forces and spend the budget. Weapons to defend us from who, exactly? Don't forget, compared to the continental powers, Britain never had a big army, because there was no need. Britain has only ever needed a small army for the precise reason that we are an island fortress, which is why Napoleon and Hitler overran the rest of Europe with the exception of us." We fought the nazis on mainland Europe would have been difficult unarmed | |||
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"Still nobody has answered my question as to how a 88,745 square mile island could possibly become overcrowded with a population of 64.1 million people. I think people want to sustain a certain standard of life and the more people here, the lower the standard of living will become is the popular perception. If you travel the world you will see that our cities and roads and hospitals, schools, shops etc etc are quite packed and straining. Yes we could take more people but only by making sacrifices. That's another subject of course. Or we divert money from stuff we don't actually need. We need hospitals, we need schools, we need some kind of provision for the disabled, the ill and the elderly. We do not need it for weapons, or supporting those who can and should work. No defence, behave, Belgium would be the 1st in line to invade us. nah on second thoughts they don't have to, they already run our country (Brussels) Switzerland has been neutral since 1815. Every Swiss citizen is given compulsory weapons training. And Switzerland has been invaded how many times since 1815 without a standing army?" That's only because everyone likes the Swiss | |||
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" Yes sensible theory but realistically we probably do need weapons etc. Sadly the world isn't always a nice place and a deterrent to others is needed. Granted we could review how we employ those forces and spend the budget. Weapons to defend us from who, exactly? Don't forget, compared to the continental powers, Britain never had a big army, because there was no need. Britain has only ever needed a small army for the precise reason that we are an island fortress, which is why Napoleon and Hitler overran the rest of Europe with the exception of us. We fought the nazis on mainland Europe would have been difficult unarmed "The Swiss weren't unarmed. Once everyone has completed their weapons training, each citizen is allowed to take their weapon home. Part of the reason Hitler didn't try invading Switzerland despite it being largely populated by Ethnic Germans is because he knew he would lose. | |||
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"Still nobody has answered my question as to how a 88,745 square mile island could possibly become overcrowded with a population of 64.1 million people. land not fit to build on , infrastructure , energy supplies , food and water supplies , quality of life and general cohesion of the population 72/73 million people within 30 years Where do you think population growth should end ? Malthusian economics? " Wonderful Lets stop the POOR people of this country get married and raise families so we can accommodate more immigration | |||
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"Still nobody has answered my question as to how a 88,745 square mile island could possibly become overcrowded with a population of 64.1 million people. I think people want to sustain a certain standard of life and the more people here, the lower the standard of living will become is the popular perception. If you travel the world you will see that our cities and roads and hospitals, schools, shops etc etc are quite packed and straining. Yes we could take more people but only by making sacrifices. That's another subject of course. Or we divert money from stuff we don't actually need. We need hospitals, we need schools, we need some kind of provision for the disabled, the ill and the elderly. We do not need it for weapons, or supporting those who can and should work. No defence, behave, Belgium would be the 1st in line to invade us. nah on second thoughts they don't have to, they already run our country (Brussels) Switzerland has been neutral since 1815. Every Swiss citizen is given compulsory weapons training. And Switzerland has been invaded how many times since 1815 without a standing army? That's only because everyone likes the Swiss" Nope, it's because Switzerland is the least likely badass country on the planet. Well, that and the fact that all the bridges and passes into the country are rigged to blow in the event of an invasion. Given our unique status as an island, it's a wonder we haven't done something similar | |||
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"Still nobody has answered my question as to how a 88,745 square mile island could possibly become overcrowded with a population of 64.1 million people. land not fit to build on , infrastructure , energy supplies , food and water supplies , quality of life and general cohesion of the population 72/73 million people within 30 years Where do you think population growth should end ? Malthusian economics? Wonderful Lets stop the POOR people of this country get married and raise families so we can accommodate more immigration" No; that means the rate of population increase overtakes the supply of food and people start starving to death because there isn't enough food and resources | |||
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" Yes sensible theory but realistically we probably do need weapons etc. Sadly the world isn't always a nice place and a deterrent to others is needed. Granted we could review how we employ those forces and spend the budget. Weapons to defend us from who, exactly? Don't forget, compared to the continental powers, Britain never had a big army, because there was no need. Britain has only ever needed a small army for the precise reason that we are an island fortress, which is why Napoleon and Hitler overran the rest of Europe with the exception of us. We fought the nazis on mainland Europe would have been difficult unarmed
The Swiss weren't unarmed. Once everyone has completed their weapons training, each citizen is allowed to take their weapon home. Part of the reason Hitler didn't try invading Switzerland despite it being largely populated by Ethnic Germans is because he knew he would lose."The longer this thread goes on, the funnier you get. I can just see it now. Hitler saying to Goering, right I want you to bomb the fuck out of France and Britain, and when you've done that we can start on Russia. Rommel, drive your tanks through Holland and Belgium into France, Push those Damned British back across the channel. But whatever both of you do, FFS don't go anywhere near Switzerland, because they are hard bastards and they keep rifles and hand guns under their pillows and they will shoot at you | |||
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" Yes sensible theory but realistically we probably do need weapons etc. Sadly the world isn't always a nice place and a deterrent to others is needed. Granted we could review how we employ those forces and spend the budget. Weapons to defend us from who, exactly? Don't forget, compared to the continental powers, Britain never had a big army, because there was no need. Britain has only ever needed a small army for the precise reason that we are an island fortress, which is why Napoleon and Hitler overran the rest of Europe with the exception of us. We fought the nazis on mainland Europe would have been difficult unarmed
The Swiss weren't unarmed. Once everyone has completed their weapons training, each citizen is allowed to take their weapon home. Part of the reason Hitler didn't try invading Switzerland despite it being largely populated by Ethnic Germans is because he knew he would lose.
The longer this thread goes on, the funnier you get.
I can just see it now. Hitler saying to Goering, right I want you to bomb the fuck out of France and Britain, and when you've done that we can start on Russia.
Rommel, drive your tanks through Holland and Belgium into France, Push those Damned British back across the channel.
But whatever both of you do, FFS don't go anywhere near Switzerland, because they are hard bastards and they keep rifles and hand guns under their pillows and they will shoot at you"But...that's precisely what happened. | |||
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"Still nobody has answered my question as to how a 88,745 square mile island could possibly become overcrowded with a population of 64.1 million people. I think people want to sustain a certain standard of life and the more people here, the lower the standard of living will become is the popular perception. If you travel the world you will see that our cities and roads and hospitals, schools, shops etc etc are quite packed and straining. Yes we could take more people but only by making sacrifices. That's another subject of course. Or we divert money from stuff we don't actually need. We need hospitals, we need schools, we need some kind of provision for the disabled, the ill and the elderly. We do not need it for weapons, or supporting those who can and should work. No defence, behave, Belgium would be the 1st in line to invade us. nah on second thoughts they don't have to, they already run our country (Brussels) Switzerland has been neutral since 1815. Every Swiss citizen is given compulsory weapons training. And Switzerland has been invaded how many times since 1815 without a standing army? That's only because everyone likes the Swiss Nope, it's because Switzerland is the least likely badass country on the planet. Well, that and the fact that all the bridges and passes into the country are rigged to blow in the event of an invasion. Given our unique status as an island, it's a wonder we haven't done something similar" We did during WW2. read up on pipe mines at every major road junction, air field, military installation in the country | |||
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" Yes sensible theory but realistically we probably do need weapons etc. Sadly the world isn't always a nice place and a deterrent to others is needed. Granted we could review how we employ those forces and spend the budget. Weapons to defend us from who, exactly? Don't forget, compared to the continental powers, Britain never had a big army, because there was no need. Britain has only ever needed a small army for the precise reason that we are an island fortress, which is why Napoleon and Hitler overran the rest of Europe with the exception of us. We fought the nazis on mainland Europe would have been difficult unarmed
The Swiss weren't unarmed. Once everyone has completed their weapons training, each citizen is allowed to take their weapon home. Part of the reason Hitler didn't try invading Switzerland despite it being largely populated by Ethnic Germans is because he knew he would lose.
The longer this thread goes on, the funnier you get.
I can just see it now. Hitler saying to Goering, right I want you to bomb the fuck out of France and Britain, and when you've done that we can start on Russia.
Rommel, drive your tanks through Holland and Belgium into France, Push those Damned British back across the channel.
But whatever both of you do, FFS don't go anywhere near Switzerland, because they are hard bastards and they keep rifles and hand guns under their pillows and they will shoot at you
But...that's precisely what happened. "If you don't believe me: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Redoubt_(Switzerland) | |||
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" Yes sensible theory but realistically we probably do need weapons etc. Sadly the world isn't always a nice place and a deterrent to others is needed. Granted we could review how we employ those forces and spend the budget. Weapons to defend us from who, exactly? Don't forget, compared to the continental powers, Britain never had a big army, because there was no need. Britain has only ever needed a small army for the precise reason that we are an island fortress, which is why Napoleon and Hitler overran the rest of Europe with the exception of us. We fought the nazis on mainland Europe would have been difficult unarmed
The Swiss weren't unarmed. Once everyone has completed their weapons training, each citizen is allowed to take their weapon home. Part of the reason Hitler didn't try invading Switzerland despite it being largely populated by Ethnic Germans is because he knew he would lose.
The longer this thread goes on, the funnier you get.
I can just see it now. Hitler saying to Goering, right I want you to bomb the fuck out of France and Britain, and when you've done that we can start on Russia.
Rommel, drive your tanks through Holland and Belgium into France, Push those Damned British back across the channel.
But whatever both of you do, FFS don't go anywhere near Switzerland, because they are hard bastards and they keep rifles and hand guns under their pillows and they will shoot at you
But...that's precisely what happened. "I know that's what happened, but not for the delusional reasons you say. | |||
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"Still nobody has answered my question as to how a 88,745 square mile island could possibly become overcrowded with a population of 64.1 million people. I think people want to sustain a certain standard of life and the more people here, the lower the standard of living will become is the popular perception. If you travel the world you will see that our cities and roads and hospitals, schools, shops etc etc are quite packed and straining. Yes we could take more people but only by making sacrifices. That's another subject of course. Or we divert money from stuff we don't actually need. We need hospitals, we need schools, we need some kind of provision for the disabled, the ill and the elderly. We do not need it for weapons, or supporting those who can and should work. No defence, behave, Belgium would be the 1st in line to invade us. nah on second thoughts they don't have to, they already run our country (Brussels) Switzerland has been neutral since 1815. Every Swiss citizen is given compulsory weapons training. And Switzerland has been invaded how many times since 1815 without a standing army? That's only because everyone likes the Swiss Nope, it's because Switzerland is the least likely badass country on the planet. Well, that and the fact that all the bridges and passes into the country are rigged to blow in the event of an invasion. Given our unique status as an island, it's a wonder we haven't done something similar We did during WW2. read up on pipe mines at every major road junction, air field, military installation in the country" Yep, difference being we had a standing army and a home guard. Switzerland had neither Operation Tannenbaum-the planned nazi invasion of Switzerland-was called off because the human, material and logistical cost to the Nazi war machine would have been far too great. So, you see, it's not all cuckoo clocks and chocolates. | |||
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" Yes sensible theory but realistically we probably do need weapons etc. Sadly the world isn't always a nice place and a deterrent to others is needed. Granted we could review how we employ those forces and spend the budget. Weapons to defend us from who, exactly? Don't forget, compared to the continental powers, Britain never had a big army, because there was no need. Britain has only ever needed a small army for the precise reason that we are an island fortress, which is why Napoleon and Hitler overran the rest of Europe with the exception of us. We fought the nazis on mainland Europe would have been difficult unarmed
The Swiss weren't unarmed. Once everyone has completed their weapons training, each citizen is allowed to take their weapon home. Part of the reason Hitler didn't try invading Switzerland despite it being largely populated by Ethnic Germans is because he knew he would lose.
The longer this thread goes on, the funnier you get.
I can just see it now. Hitler saying to Goering, right I want you to bomb the fuck out of France and Britain, and when you've done that we can start on Russia.
Rommel, drive your tanks through Holland and Belgium into France, Push those Damned British back across the channel.
But whatever both of you do, FFS don't go anywhere near Switzerland, because they are hard bastards and they keep rifles and hand guns under their pillows and they will shoot at you
But...that's precisely what happened.
I know that's what happened, but not for the delusional reasons you say."Why is that delusional if that is exactly what happened? | |||
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" Yes sensible theory but realistically we probably do need weapons etc. Sadly the world isn't always a nice place and a deterrent to others is needed. Granted we could review how we employ those forces and spend the budget. Weapons to defend us from who, exactly? Don't forget, compared to the continental powers, Britain never had a big army, because there was no need. Britain has only ever needed a small army for the precise reason that we are an island fortress, which is why Napoleon and Hitler overran the rest of Europe with the exception of us. We fought the nazis on mainland Europe would have been difficult unarmed
The Swiss weren't unarmed. Once everyone has completed their weapons training, each citizen is allowed to take their weapon home. Part of the reason Hitler didn't try invading Switzerland despite it being largely populated by Ethnic Germans is because he knew he would lose.
The longer this thread goes on, the funnier you get.
I can just see it now. Hitler saying to Goering, right I want you to bomb the fuck out of France and Britain, and when you've done that we can start on Russia.
Rommel, drive your tanks through Holland and Belgium into France, Push those Damned British back across the channel.
But whatever both of you do, FFS don't go anywhere near Switzerland, because they are hard bastards and they keep rifles and hand guns under their pillows and they will shoot at you
But...that's precisely what happened.
If you don't believe me: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Redoubt_(Switzerland)"Laughable The French and Belgians had similar things Belgium K-W line France Maginot line Hitler just went round the Maginot line and landed his paratroopers on top of the K-W line | |||
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"Still nobody has answered my question as to how a 88,745 square mile island could possibly become overcrowded with a population of 64.1 million people. I think people want to sustain a certain standard of life and the more people here, the lower the standard of living will become is the popular perception. If you travel the world you will see that our cities and roads and hospitals, schools, shops etc etc are quite packed and straining. Yes we could take more people but only by making sacrifices. That's another subject of course. Or we divert money from stuff we don't actually need. We need hospitals, we need schools, we need some kind of provision for the disabled, the ill and the elderly. We do not need it for weapons, or supporting those who can and should work. No defence, behave, Belgium would be the 1st in line to invade us. nah on second thoughts they don't have to, they already run our country (Brussels) Switzerland has been neutral since 1815. Every Swiss citizen is given compulsory weapons training. And Switzerland has been invaded how many times since 1815 without a standing army? That's only because everyone likes the Swiss Nope, it's because Switzerland is the least likely badass country on the planet. Well, that and the fact that all the bridges and passes into the country are rigged to blow in the event of an invasion. Given our unique status as an island, it's a wonder we haven't done something similar We did during WW2. read up on pipe mines at every major road junction, air field, military installation in the country Yep, difference being we had a standing army and a home guard. Switzerland had neither Operation Tannenbaum-the planned nazi invasion of Switzerland-was called off because the human, material and logistical cost to the Nazi war machine would have been far too great. So, you see, it's not all cuckoo clocks and chocolates." Well, that and the Nazis were using it to hoard stolen wealth... so it was a worth while partner in crime | |||
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"Still nobody has answered my question as to how a 88,745 square mile island could possibly become overcrowded with a population of 64.1 million people. I think people want to sustain a certain standard of life and the more people here, the lower the standard of living will become is the popular perception. If you travel the world you will see that our cities and roads and hospitals, schools, shops etc etc are quite packed and straining. Yes we could take more people but only by making sacrifices. That's another subject of course. Or we divert money from stuff we don't actually need. We need hospitals, we need schools, we need some kind of provision for the disabled, the ill and the elderly. We do not need it for weapons, or supporting those who can and should work. No defence, behave, Belgium would be the 1st in line to invade us. nah on second thoughts they don't have to, they already run our country (Brussels) Switzerland has been neutral since 1815. Every Swiss citizen is given compulsory weapons training. And Switzerland has been invaded how many times since 1815 without a standing army? That's only because everyone likes the Swiss Nope, it's because Switzerland is the least likely badass country on the planet. Well, that and the fact that all the bridges and passes into the country are rigged to blow in the event of an invasion. Given our unique status as an island, it's a wonder we haven't done something similar We did during WW2. read up on pipe mines at every major road junction, air field, military installation in the country Yep, difference being we had a standing army and a home guard. Switzerland had neither Operation Tannenbaum-the planned nazi invasion of Switzerland-was called off because the human, material and logistical cost to the Nazi war machine would have been far too great. So, you see, it's not all cuckoo clocks and chocolates. Well, that and the Nazis were using it to hoard stolen wealth... so it was a worth while partner in crime " And also, France and Belgium aren't mainly made up of mountains. They've got mountains on the southern and northern borders, and despite what the Von Trapps would have you believe, mountain climbing isn't a walk in the park. It's even harder when you're trying to drag thousands of tons of ammunition behind you. For another thing, the Swiss have jealously guarded their neutrality in the best way known to man: with guns. When the Nazis started revving up, the Swiss got their shit together in three days. Most countries are lucky if they can get all their MPs in town for three days, much less arm an entire army 500,000 strong. So, sure, you can take Switzerland -- but you'll leave many, many bodies behind. And at the end, all you'll have to show for it is fucking Switzerland. But Hitler, with world domination on his to-do list, just would not stop talking about it.So right in the thick of World War II, just as Winston Churchill was taking office and the Nazis started gearing up for battle with the last Allied power in Europe, Adolf Hitler asked his senior strategy guys to come up with a massive plan to invade Switzerland. He hated Switzerland for some reason, calling them the "pimple on the face of Europe," as if Cyprus didn't even exist or something. And he was oddly emotional about the whole deal, causing his chief of the General Staff to complain, "I was constantly hearing of outbursts of Hitler's fury against Switzerland, which, given his mentality, might have led at any minute to military activities for the army." What they came up with was Operation Tannenbaum, a plan to put stupid Switzerland in its place once and for all. Want to know how hard it is to invade the land of chocolate and versatile pocket knives? The plan called for roughly 25 divisions and up to 500,000 men -- as many as four times the soldiers deployed for the invasion of Norway. And for what? A tiny, mountainous piece of land that one German diplomat called "an indigestible lump" that wasn't worth choking down. In short, instead of getting bogged down in Russia, Nazi Germany nearly got bogged down in their own backyard against an enemy that was no threat to them whatsoever, grinding out a bloody siege in freezing mountains guarded by half a million Swiss Rambos. Hitler shelved the plan for reasons unknown to this day (maybe it turned out he was thinking of a different country the whole time?), and the closest Switzerland ever came to fighting in WW2 was when they occasionally got bombed by the Allies. | |||
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" Aren't you contradicting yourself ? You claim there's no need for weapons and defence as there are no enemies then give examples of why Switzerland will never be invaded....on the basis that they are well equipped. ...weapons wise ? " No need for spending money on a standing army though if there isn't one, with the whole population being a virtual militia. | |||
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"Isn't it more likely they didn't invade Switzerland because they were all pally and were stashing their ill gotten gains there. which probably means they realised they weren't going to win in the first place but were nothing more than common gangsters." No, the German war aims included dividing Switzerland up between Germany and Italy, as part of the war aims were getting all German speakers within Germany-which is why Austria, Poland, and the Sudentenland were invaded-because a sizable amount of the populations (or all, in the case of Austria) of those countries spoke German-just like in Switzerland. | |||
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" the UK is full and he expects social unrest and an exit from the EU if some sensible constraints are not imposed or a huge investment from the EU into the UK to support the population growth." can't argue too much with that, we just have to watch it dosn't just become a raciest issue. I don't think we will leave the EU per say so we now need to find a way forwards which works... not the massive "spend all" do nothing EU we have now.... | |||
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"On the subject of overcrowding though; let's look at this, let's get some perspective: Singapore is 277 square miles.Population: 5 and a half million. Population density: 17,931 people per square mile Hong Kong: 426 square miles. Population: 7 and a half million. Population density: 17,019 people per square mile Both economic supergiants. Both, incidentally, built by the British. Both have very few to little natural resources." And Hong Kong inhabitants are delighted with the cramped living conditions and lack of affordable housing hence the outbreak of social unrest recently. London is not far off the density numbers you quote and other major cities are also highly populated. The issues remains that we have a population that vastly exceeds the installed infrastructure and this is only going to get worse without a monumental investment for which we simply do not have the cash. | |||
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"On the subject of overcrowding though; let's look at this, let's get some perspective: Singapore is 277 square miles.Population: 5 and a half million. Population density: 17,931 people per square mile Hong Kong: 426 square miles. Population: 7 and a half million. Population density: 17,019 people per square mile Both economic supergiants. Both, incidentally, built by the British. Both have very few to little natural resources. And Hong Kong inhabitants are delighted with the cramped living conditions and lack of affordable housing hence the outbreak of social unrest recently. London is not far off the density numbers you quote and other major cities are also highly populated. The issues remains that we have a population that vastly exceeds the installed infrastructure and this is only going to get worse without a monumental investment for which we simply do not have the cash." I would have thought the unrest was due to the fact they live under a totalitarian dictatorship. Funny how there was little social unrest, particularly on this scale, when Hong Kong was a British colony. | |||
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"On the subject of overcrowding though; let's look at this, let's get some perspective: Singapore is 277 square miles.Population: 5 and a half million. Population density: 17,931 people per square mile Hong Kong: 426 square miles. Population: 7 and a half million. Population density: 17,019 people per square mile Both economic supergiants. Both, incidentally, built by the British. Both have very few to little natural resources. And Hong Kong inhabitants are delighted with the cramped living conditions and lack of affordable housing hence the outbreak of social unrest recently. London is not far off the density numbers you quote and other major cities are also highly populated. The issues remains that we have a population that vastly exceeds the installed infrastructure and this is only going to get worse without a monumental investment for which we simply do not have the cash." What hitler and goering could,nt do, Immigration Is doing In a Different way now and we are just not Ready for It now In the terms that the eu Want now, once someone else can Start pulling the strings and dictateing you can see the change over Quickly developing with those muppets In brussels haveing their say, Unless Some proper policy,s are drawn up to Ease this situation as already said Earlier on this post things will get worst. | |||
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"On the subject of overcrowding though; let's look at this, let's get some perspective: Singapore is 277 square miles.Population: 5 and a half million. Population density: 17,931 people per square mile Hong Kong: 426 square miles. Population: 7 and a half million. Population density: 17,019 people per square mile Both economic supergiants. Both, incidentally, built by the British. Both have very few to little natural resources. And Hong Kong inhabitants are delighted with the cramped living conditions and lack of affordable housing hence the outbreak of social unrest recently. London is not far off the density numbers you quote and other major cities are also highly populated. The issues remains that we have a population that vastly exceeds the installed infrastructure and this is only going to get worse without a monumental investment for which we simply do not have the cash.What hitler and goering could,nt do, Immigration Is doing In a Different way now and we are just not Ready for It now In the terms that the eu Want now, once someone else can Start pulling the strings and dictateing you can see the change over Quickly developing with those muppets In brussels haveing their say, Unless Some proper policy,s are drawn up to Ease this situation as already said Earlier on this post things will get worst. " Exactly Bravo | |||
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"an interesting thread looking back, we have gone from population growth and infrastructure to aliens, from colonising the moon to malthusian economics, to Switzerland being the bad ass of Europe to living in caves in Lincoln. Sometimes you have just got to love the forums! "Hey be careful what you say about the Swiss They've all got guns | |||
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"an interesting thread looking back, we have gone from population growth and infrastructure to aliens, from colonising the moon to malthusian economics, to Switzerland being the bad ass of Europe to living in caves in Lincoln. Sometimes you have just got to love the forums!
Hey be careful what you say about the Swiss
They've all got guns"And the Highlands, Have you seen the Horns on them big shaggy things
And i dont mean Billy Connolly
Gimp | |||
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"an interesting thread looking back, we have gone from population growth and infrastructure to aliens, from colonising the moon to malthusian economics, to Switzerland being the bad ass of Europe to living in caves in Lincoln. Sometimes you have just got to love the forums!
Hey be careful what you say about the Swiss
They've all got guns
And the Highlands, Have you seen the Horns on them big shaggy things
And i dont mean Billy Connolly
Gimp"You cant say that about the women North of the border That's racist | |||
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"an interesting thread looking back, we have gone from population growth and infrastructure to aliens, from colonising the moon to malthusian economics, to Switzerland being the bad ass of Europe to living in caves in Lincoln. Sometimes you have just got to love the forums!
Hey be careful what you say about the Swiss
They've all got guns
And the Highlands, Have you seen the Horns on them big shaggy things
And i dont mean Billy Connolly
Gimp
You cant say that about the women North of the border
That's racist "Its more mysoganist to be fair  | |||
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"Isn't it more likely they didn't invade Switzerland because they were all pally and were stashing their ill gotten gains there. which probably means they realised they weren't going to win in the first place but were nothing more than common gangsters. No, the German war aims included dividing Switzerland up between Germany and Italy, as part of the war aims were getting all German speakers within Germany-which is why Austria, Poland, and the Sudentenland were invaded-because a sizable amount of the populations (or all, in the case of Austria) of those countries spoke German-just like in Switzerland." . Yes but weren't those areas all part of the Prussian empire which were taken from Germany with the Versailles treaty after ww1. I thought that reunification was one of Hitler's big national ideas that people liked in 30,s Germany. Anyhow getting back to point, of your hiding your blood money in Swiss banks like the Nazis did from very early on (even before the war started) surely they weren't very confident of holding the Nazi empire together in the beginning or you'd have just kept your secret loot in the German banks! | |||
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