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Cost of Immigration Myth!
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"http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-29910497 An interesting early morning read - and one that flies in the face of widespread public perception. So much for them being a huge drain on society! The hardest hitting points to me were these: " they were a boon to the state and the public finances, not a burden." and " rest of us - the indigenous population - were a massive drain on the state " Have a read over your cornflakes - the numbers are certainly very interesting! A" You are twisting it, immigrants from outside the eu have cost us. On radio 4 this morning. | |||
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"http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-29910497 An interesting early morning read - and one that flies in the face of widespread public perception. So much for them being a huge drain on society! The hardest hitting points to me were these: " they were a boon to the state and the public finances, not a burden." and " rest of us - the indigenous population - were a massive drain on the state " Have a read over your cornflakes - the numbers are certainly very interesting! A You are twisting it, immigrants from outside the eu have cost us. On radio 4 this morning. " I am confused how? Can you be more specific please  | |||
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"OP isn't twisting anything,,merely pointing out an independent report, which states points of fact, rather than then xenophobic rantings of some of our so called political experts." To make out all immigration is good is twisting. It hasn't been, and most people agree on that. | |||
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"Non EU immigration (legal or otherwise) has a huge social and economic impact on parts of the South East like Rochester and Dover. " how, | |||
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"Non EU immigration (legal or otherwise) has a huge social and economic impact on parts of the South East like Rochester and Dover. how," Dunno, it's what South East today said. It's why they think UKIP will do well in the Rochester local by election. | |||
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"http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-29910497 An interesting early morning read - and one that flies in the face of widespread public perception. So much for them being a huge drain on society! The hardest hitting points to me were these: " they were a boon to the state and the public finances, not a burden." and " rest of us - the indigenous population - were a massive drain on the state " Have a read over your cornflakes - the numbers are certainly very interesting! A You are twisting it, immigrants from outside the eu have cost us. On radio 4 this morning. " "And, by the way, the net benefits of immigration from the rest of the European Union (the richer more developed countries) was £15bn, with full costs allocated, and £18bn without. As for immigrants from the rest of the world, they contributed £5bn or £20.5bn on the same basis." Not according to the same report. A | |||
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"Non EU immigration (legal or otherwise) has a huge social and economic impact on parts of the South East like Rochester and Dover. how, Dunno, it's what South East today said. It's why they think UKIP will do well in the Rochester local by election. " What do you think? | |||
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"The original report does not break down any specific area, but gives a total figure. I wouldn't argue with anybody that there are areas where larger numbers of immigrants gather to live, which will create ghetto type area similar to the Caribbean immigrants in the 60's, when it took a long time for most people to integrate into our society. This looks like history repeating itself, which is sad as it shows that no lessons have been learned from the past." What is the difference in us going to Spain and creating a ghetto type area over there? In my view as long as the person is in full employment and he or she are paying there taxes not claiming off of the government why should it matter? | |||
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"http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-29910497 An interesting early morning read - and one that flies in the face of widespread public perception. So much for them being a huge drain on society! The hardest hitting points to me were these: " they were a boon to the state and the public finances, not a burden." and " rest of us - the indigenous population - were a massive drain on the state " Have a read over your cornflakes - the numbers are certainly very interesting! A" Pleasure don't confuse people with facts!...they are happier believing in some Faragean utopia. | |||
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"The original report does not break down any specific area, but gives a total figure. I wouldn't argue with anybody that there are areas where larger numbers of immigrants gather to live, which will create ghetto type area similar to the Caribbean immigrants in the 60's, when it took a long time for most people to integrate into our society. This looks like history repeating itself, which is sad as it shows that no lessons have been learned from the past. What is the difference in us going to Spain and creating a ghetto type area over there? In my view as long as the person is in full employment and he or she are paying there taxes not claiming off of the government why should it matter? " My point was referring to the non-integration into the indigenous society.This point would also apply to places like the Costas where British people do the same thing! | |||
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"I can see tears in people's cornflakes with this thread before too long. Immigration will always be a sore subject to some. I laugh when people say that all immigrants take our housing and jobs firstly probably about a third that come to this country are not even eligible for housing and they do the jobs that most British turn their noses up at. I can see that in most cases they bring money into our economy rather than drain it. "  | |||
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"We shouldn't need immigration to this country, certainly not large scale, non selective. What we should do is make the lazy, job shy folk do the jobs the immigrants are willing to do. No work, no benefits. " lol that will never happen.... | |||
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"One of the funniest, delusional things I ever heard was 2 old blokes talking about the amount of Polish people moving in to the area. I quote... " lazy bastard Poles, coming over here and knicking our jobs"... I really wanted to point out the glaring hole in the statement "Where I live there is a huge content rate of racism I only have to look on a Facebook page to see that....their usual statement is what you mentioned. Saying that the polish people are disgusting etc. I work and live next door and I have to say they are some of the nicest people to meet. | |||
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"One of the funniest, delusional things I ever heard was 2 old blokes talking about the amount of Polish people moving in to the area. I quote... " lazy bastard Poles, coming over here and knicking our jobs"... I really wanted to point out the glaring hole in the statement
Where I live there is a huge content rate of racism I only have to look on a Facebook page to see that....their usual statement is what you mentioned. Saying that the polish people are disgusting etc. I work and live next door and I have to say they are some of the nicest people to meet. "I lived on Balham back in the 80s/90s, there was a huge Polish community there who came over after the War. I worked with Polish guys in a bakery and was trained as a cake decorator by an old Polish guy who had been in Nazi death camps. They were some of the nicest and hard working people I have ever come across. | |||
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"I can see tears in people's cornflakes with this thread before too long. Immigration will always be a sore subject to some. I laugh when people say that all immigrants take our housing and jobs firstly probably about a third that come to this country are not even eligible for housing and they do the jobs that most British turn their noses up at. I can see that in most cases they bring money into our economy rather than drain it. " Shhhh I bet you were the type to tell the children Santa wernt real!  x | |||
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"What have the Poles ever done for us ..? (Python sketch)" Held up the tent? | |||
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"http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-29910497 An interesting early morning read - and one that flies in the face of widespread public perception. So much for them being a huge drain on society! The hardest hitting points to me were these: " they were a boon to the state and the public finances, not a burden." and " rest of us - the indigenous population - were a massive drain on the state " Have a read over your cornflakes - the numbers are certainly very interesting! A" How do they know these facts and figures? | |||
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"OP isn't twisting anything,,merely pointing out an independent report, which states points of fact, rather than then xenophobic rantings of some of our so called political experts. To make out all immigration is good is twisting. It hasn't been, and most people agree on that. " some of my grand parents were immigrants.. all of our extended family disagree with you as would they now were they alive and could see the family has prospered and contributed to our communities and this country .. | |||
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"I can see tears in people's cornflakes with this thread before too long. Immigration will always be a sore subject to some. I laugh when people say that all immigrants take our housing and jobs firstly probably about a third that come to this country are not even eligible for housing and they do the jobs that most British turn their noses up at. I can see that in most cases they bring money into our economy rather than drain it. Shhhh I bet you were the type to tell the children Santa wernt real! x""The type" no I can't say I did tell any children Santa wasn't real. | |||
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"There are lovely Poles. There are horrid Poles. There are lovely people from the UK. There are horrid people from the UK. I am however always mystified by the varying statistics quoted about the net loss or gain to our economy. Such statistics are routinely quoted by "authoritative" sources without any explanation as to how the figures were gathered and what assumptions have been made. You know what they say about statistics." | |||
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"OP isn't twisting anything,,merely pointing out an independent report, which states points of fact, rather than then xenophobic rantings of some of our so called political experts. To make out all immigration is good is twisting. It hasn't been, and most people agree on that. " As it happens, people do not believe the truth, they believe what they want to believe. There are those of an ignorant disposition who do not even understand that an island nation must, by definition, be made up entirely of immigrants. If people do not understand and believe this, how can they ever be expected to believe that be it over 10,000 years, 1,000 years or just 10 years immigrants from Europe have been responsible for shaping the success and future of our country. It does not need a report to tell us what thousands of years of history and evolution has already told us. Immigration from Europe has always been good for the UK. | |||
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"OP isn't twisting anything,,merely pointing out an independent report, which states points of fact, rather than then xenophobic rantings of some of our so called political experts. To make out all immigration is good is twisting. It hasn't been, and most people agree on that. As it happens, people do not believe the truth, they believe what they want to believe. There are those of an ignorant disposition who do not even understand that an island nation must, by definition, be made up entirely of immigrants. If people do not understand and believe this, how can they ever be expected to believe that be it over 10,000 years, 1,000 years or just 10 years immigrants from Europe have been responsible for shaping the success and future of our country. It does not need a report to tell us what thousands of years of history and evolution has already told us. Immigration from Europe has always been good for the UK." | |||
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"One of the funniest, delusional things I ever heard was 2 old blokes talking about the amount of Polish people moving in to the area. I quote... " lazy bastard Poles, coming over here and knicking our jobs"... I really wanted to point out the glaring hole in the statement "What I don't agree with is that they come over here to work and are claiming child benefit for their children back in Poland | |||
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"One of the funniest, delusional things I ever heard was 2 old blokes talking about the amount of Polish people moving in to the area. I quote... " lazy bastard Poles, coming over here and knicking our jobs"... I really wanted to point out the glaring hole in the statement
What I don't agree with is that they come over here to work and are claiming child benefit for their children back in Poland "And if they were... That is something entirely within our hands to fix. Let's be honest, child benefit needs to be got rid of anyway. How hard can it be to state that from such a date, no new child benefit claimants. | |||
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"I can see tears in people's cornflakes with this thread before too long. Immigration will always be a sore subject to some. I laugh when people say that all immigrants take our housing and jobs firstly probably about a third that come to this country are not even eligible for housing and they do the jobs that most British turn their noses up at. I can see that in most cases they bring money into our economy rather than drain it. Shhhh I bet you were the type to tell the children Santa wernt real! x
"The type" no I can't say I did tell any children Santa wasn't real. "I can see this one heading in the wrong direction from the original point. | |||
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"I can see tears in people's cornflakes with this thread before too long. Immigration will always be a sore subject to some. I laugh when people say that all immigrants take our housing and jobs firstly probably about a third that come to this country are not even eligible for housing and they do the jobs that most British turn their noses up at. I can see that in most cases they bring money into our economy rather than drain it. Shhhh I bet you were the type to tell the children Santa wernt real! x
"The type" no I can't say I did tell any children Santa wasn't real.
I can see this one heading in the wrong direction from the original point."If you explain what you meant by your post I might understand what you meant. I'm not quick off the ball this morning...actually most mornings | |||
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"We shouldn't need immigration to this country, certainly not large scale, non selective. What we should do is make the lazy, job shy folk do the jobs the immigrants are willing to do. No work, no benefits. " and the uncomfortable truth is that a lot of the immigrants are prepared to do the jobs that a lot of the people here dont want to do and are not prepared to do.... the "fruit picking" documentary that was on a few years ago was interesting because there were people who were going to job centres complaining there were no jobs, and the foreigners were stealing all the jobs... and when they were offered a chance at the fruit picking jobs they went.... na thanks!! too hard the problem is a lot of people want it both ways..... and people are prepared to do some jobs which they consider "demeaning"..... | |||
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"We shouldn't need immigration to this country, certainly not large scale, non selective. What we should do is make the lazy, job shy folk do the jobs the immigrants are willing to do. No work, no benefits. and the uncomfortable truth is that a lot of the immigrants are prepared to do the jobs that a lot of the people here dont want to do and are not prepared to do.... the "fruit picking" documentary that was on a few years ago was interesting because there were people who were going to job centres complaining there were no jobs, and the foreigners were stealing all the jobs... and when they were offered a chance at the fruit picking jobs they went.... na thanks!! too hard the problem is a lot of people want it both ways..... and people are prepared to do some jobs which they consider "demeaning"....." Ah to coin a phrase Cherry Picking | |||
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"OP isn't twisting anything,,merely pointing out an independent report, which states points of fact, rather than then xenophobic rantings of some of our so called political experts. To make out all immigration is good is twisting. It hasn't been, and most people agree on that. " | |||
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"OP isn't twisting anything,,merely pointing out an independent report, which states points of fact, rather than then xenophobic rantings of some of our so called political experts. To make out all immigration is good is twisting. It hasn't been, and most people agree on that. "what do you base that on if I may ask..? | |||
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"Current job vacancies is X. Net immigration + total unemployed is X+Y. Do the maths." Are you forgetting that a large number of British born people, who would need jobs here, live and work in other countries? People emigrate from here as well as emigrate to here. | |||
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"Current job vacancies is X. Net immigration + total unemployed is X+Y. Do the maths. Are you forgetting that a large number of British born people, who would need jobs here, live and work in other countries? People emigrate from here as well as emigrate to here." Net immigration I said. That takes account of emigration. | |||
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"So we can make room for more people from poorer countries, who see our minimum wage as ackings ransom." If they work and contribute, why not? | |||
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"Current job vacancies is X. Net immigration + total unemployed is X+Y. Do the maths. Are you forgetting that a large number of British born people, who would need jobs here, live and work in other countries? People emigrate from here as well as emigrate to here. Net immigration I said. That takes account of emigration." Good point. I'd missed that. Would you like to quote some number on how many British born people live in other countries and how many immigrants live here? Bear in mind that a lot of the Brits that left would turn their nose up at many of the jobs immigrants take. | |||
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"I'd like to point out that this "jobs that British people won't do" is nonsense. Those jobs pay 2:50 an hour it's not that they won't do them ,it's that they can't afford to do them, but as usual the governments answer is not to raise wages but to get ever increasing poorer people(eastern Europeans) to do the work. And the report is bollocks anyhow as it doesn't take into account the massive infrastructure costs that some or later you will have to fork due to an every increasing population."
I'm all for immigration...when we can. | |||
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"Current job vacancies is X. Net immigration + total unemployed is X+Y. Do the maths. Are you forgetting that a large number of British born people, who would need jobs here, live and work in other countries? People emigrate from here as well as emigrate to here. Net immigration I said. That takes account of emigration. Good point. I'd missed that. Would you like to quote some number on how many British born people live in other countries and how many immigrants live here? Bear in mind that a lot of the Brits that left would turn their nose up at many of the jobs immigrants take." The fact is we have net of immigration, so this means the volume coming over is more than going out. The actual numbers going out are in the thousands, coming in, in the hundreds of thousands. People from here very rarely emigrate without a job to go to. They won't get let in. | |||
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"And before anyone says they go straight onto benefits when they come over they DON'T they have to pass the HRT (not the hormone) test and if they have workers status they have to of earned a certain amount before being eligible for housing benefit. I'm born to an immigrant mother who has not claimed a single benefit apart from CB since the day she set foot into country. Applied for her pension to be told she was eligible for 1p a week. Applied to her own countries pension where she hadn't lived for 40 years and is entitled to £400 a month..people ignorance is down to lack of education and understanding of immigration if we pit down the daily mail and actually learn the real facts of immigration we might be surprised. " That is such a good post, definitely one of my favourite posts on this subject across a lot of these 'immigration' threads. Does your mum still live in the UK by the way? | |||
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"Can anyone post a link to a job application that pays 2.50 an hour? I'd like to see one. " . Potatoe picking in Lincolnshire | |||
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"Can anyone post a link to a job application that pays 2.50 an hour? I'd like to see one. . Potatoe picking in Lincolnshire" I was asking for a link if anyone had one they had found. Otherwise I won't know that it's true or not. | |||
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"I watched a programme earlier this year. Was an Eastern European who said he going to move here for a year, get £20k+, send it back home to build his house. He did it aswell. To get a NI number, he collected scrap, weighed it in, got the cash, declared it and that was it, from then onwards he was given benefit money. It was that easy and took him 2 days" ...."Collected" scrap... Most of those are just glorified thieves | |||
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"To be honest I think the constant 'hot topic' of immigration deflects attention from a lot of real issues and problems! We live in a society which, via its benefit system, actively encourages the less educated members of society to have a large number of children that they have neither the ability nor the intention of ever supporting themselves. It is far more lucrative to have a new child every few years to keep the benefits rolling in than it is to work in a low-paid job! We are one of the few countries in the world who, by the nature of our benefits system, actively encourage many people NOT to work! Until we elect a government who has the balls to put a stop to the current system, our economy will be in turmoil with our without immigration. And yep - I'm qualified to comment on this. I lived in a very 'dodgy' council estate for six years and was considered weird because I chose to take a low paid job rather than have more children that I couldn't afford to support. I also have a neice in her thirties who has worked for about 6 months of her life - she has 6 kids on benefits - and knows more about how to get unlimited benefits than any DSS employee! (she gets a new people carrier every 3 years because her partner has a clot on his leg caused by a lifetime of smoking) - she gets carers allowance for 'taking care of him'! Dontcha all just feel great knowing where your tax is going?? xx"I have a brother who's a complete waster. He is 47 now and hasn't worked since he was about 20. He has made a career out of working the system. He gets around 100 quid a week for being an ex smackhead with a methadone habit. He told me and my other brothers that he has never wanted to work. Neither have I, but till I win the lottery I will. I was unemployed for 19 months a couple of years ago and my 65 quid a week dole was stopped after 6 months. He's my brother, but I'll laugh in his face if a government has the bottle to stop his "benefits". | |||
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"Can anyone post a link to a job application that pays 2.50 an hour? I'd like to see one. . Potatoe picking in Lincolnshire I was asking for a link if anyone had one they had found. Otherwise I won't know that it's true or not. " ...What! you want to see an illegal job posted on a job centre site... Despatches did an hour documentary on the illegal farming employment 6 months ago they estimated that 35% of immigrants were working in illegal employment. Some made barely 30 quid a week after farmers "housing and food provided" was taken into account. The government love immigration it pays muchos wonga! But all the negative sides of it you pay for. | |||
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"OP isn't twisting anything,,merely pointing out an independent report, which states points of fact, rather than then xenophobic rantings of some of our so called political experts. To make out all immigration is good is twisting. It hasn't been, and most people agree on that. " we live in the area above the national average x | |||
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"To be honest I think the constant 'hot topic' of immigration deflects attention from a lot of real issues and problems! We live in a society which, via its benefit system, actively encourages the less educated members of society to have a large number of children that they have neither the ability nor the intention of ever supporting themselves. It is far more lucrative to have a new child every few years to keep the benefits rolling in than it is to work in a low-paid job! We are one of the few countries in the world who, by the nature of our benefits system, actively encourage many people NOT to work! Until we elect a government who has the balls to put a stop to the current system, our economy will be in turmoil with our without immigration. And yep - I'm qualified to comment on this. I lived in a very 'dodgy' council estate for six years and was considered weird because I chose to take a low paid job rather than have more children that I couldn't afford to support. I also have a neice in her thirties who has worked for about 6 months of her life - she has 6 kids on benefits - and knows more about how to get unlimited benefits than any DSS employee! (she gets a new people carrier every 3 years because her partner has a clot on his leg caused by a lifetime of smoking) - she gets carers allowance for 'taking care of him'! Dontcha all just feel great knowing where your tax is going?? xx"Our economy is not in turmoil because of the benefits system. The type of benefits you've described in your post are not the problem when looking at our GDP and the performance of our economy. Well educated people in power or trying to get power with an agenda simply play on the prejudice or fears of the less informed public in order to deflect from their failures or to achieve their goals. It is easier to blame the poor or immigrants by feeding underlying prejudice than it is to be transparent on government failures to effectively close tax loopholes for the rich, or own up to the billions wasted in NHS reform, the debacle of how the government handled aspects of the banking crisis etc etc etc. Ignorance of the real breakdown of our welfare state and it's impact on the public purse, ignorance of the real financial impact of immigration, added to underlying prejudice simply makes it easier for the newspaper sellers with an agenda and politicians to succeed in their goals. You all owe it to yourselves as individuals to become better informed. Are you allowing you're prejudices to be used against you? | |||
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"we have net of immigration ..... The actual numbers going out are in the thousands, coming in, in the hundreds of thousands. " Well actually http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28964323 Net migration into the UK increased by more than 38% to 243,000 in 2013-14 with EU citizens accounting for two-thirds of the growth from the previous figure of 175,000. The number of migrants from Romania and Bulgaria increased from 12,000 to 28,000 over the period. Employment restrictions on citizens of the two countries were lifted in January. According to the migration figures from the Office for National Statistics, a total of 560,000 immigrants arrived in the UK over the 12-month period to March, while an estimated 316,000 people left. There was an increase in people migrating for work, to 228,000, while 177,000 arrivals were students. An increased number came to the UK to join family members. For the first time in nearly three years, the number of people migrating to the UK from outside the EU increased, to 265,000. Separate figures showed over 25% of births in England and Wales last year were to mothers themselves born abroad. Whatever you think of the figures, today's migration statistics are part of the story of an open market economy in a globalised world. Every year for the past 20, more people have been arriving in the UK than leaving. The reasons for those movements are complex and have regularly changed. The key factors were once students or those seeking refuge whilst today it is about work - and the attraction of the open British economy where businesses can recruit from a continental marketplace. Ministers have restricted immigration from outside the EU - but they have no power to stop the freedom of movement for work inside the club, as the British economy grows faster than other parts of Europe, workers will continue to arrive. | |||
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"The bbc are biased towards the left, youd be better off looking at live leak, articles on facebook, the mail or express to find out whats realy happening in this country." Look to the Daily Mail and Daily Express for the truth? Hahahahahahaha, I've just fallen off my chair. | |||
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"Hi all I dont understand one thing ?why when some one start talking about immigration is always is about 'Poles"? By the way I'm poles "Because they want to put a name to their scapegoats. | |||
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"The bbc are biased towards the left, youd be better off looking at live leak, articles on facebook, the mail or express to find out whats realy happening in this country. Look to the Daily Mail and Daily Express for the truth? Hahahahahahaha, I've just fallen off my chair. "That made me chuckle a lot, you've cheered my day up. Have a good idea for throwing into the fire tonight, those papers and the sun | |||
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"Can anyone post a link to a job application that pays 2.50 an hour? I'd like to see one. . Potatoe picking in Lincolnshire I was asking for a link if anyone had one they had found. Otherwise I won't know that it's true or not. ...What! you want to see an illegal job posted on a job centre site... Despatches did an hour documentary on the illegal farming employment 6 months ago they estimated that 35% of immigrants were working in illegal employment. Some made barely 30 quid a week after farmers "housing and food provided" was taken into account. The government love immigration it pays muchos wonga! But all the negative sides of it you pay for. " Who is at fault here. The govt, the immigrants or the employers? | |||
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"The bbc are biased towards the left, youd be better off looking at live leak, articles on facebook, the mail or express to find out whats realy happening in this country. Look to the Daily Mail and Daily Express for the truth? Hahahahahahaha, I've just fallen off my chair. "No, you must be thinking of the Guardian. Have you ever watched any Pat Condell videos? | |||
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"Hi all I dont understand one thing ?why when some one start talking about immigration is always is about 'Poles"? By the way I'm poles
Because they want to put a name to their scapegoats. "I think soo ! The easy way | |||
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"Hi all I dont understand one thing ?why when some one start talking about immigration is always is about 'Poles"? By the way I'm poles
Because they want to put a name to their scapegoats. "..Hardly it's probably more likely that the first nation to have free access and arrive in droves were polish, although since then alot of poles have returned back to Poland due to their own improving economy.... Hence why we now have to expand our grasp to the Romanians and Bulgarians. It's bullshit racists on one side of the debate and bullshit liberals on the other, your all as bad as each other, on one side of the fence you'd have the belief that all eastern Europeans are constant worker drones never committing crime or claiming anything and the other side think their Satan!. | |||
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"Hi all I dont understand one thing ?why when some one start talking about immigration is always is about 'Poles"? By the way I'm poles
Because they want to put a name to their scapegoats. ..Hardly it's probably more likely that the first nation to have free access and arrive in droves were polish, although since then alot of poles have returned back to Poland due to their own improving economy.... Hence why we now have to expand our grasp to the Romanians and Bulgarians.
It's bullshit racists on one side of the debate and bullshit liberals on the other, your all as bad as each other, on one side of the fence you'd have the belief that all eastern Europeans are constant worker drones never committing crime or claiming anything and the other side think their Satan!.
"The Devil moves in mysterious ways | |||
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"Hi all I dont understand one thing ?why when some one start talking about immigration is always is about 'Poles"? By the way I'm poles
Because they want to put a name to their scapegoats. ..Hardly it's probably more likely that the first nation to have free access and arrive in droves were polish, although since then alot of poles have returned back to Poland due to their own improving economy.... Hence why we now have to expand our grasp to the Romanians and Bulgarians.
It's bullshit racists on one side of the debate and bullshit liberals on the other, your all as bad as each other, on one side of the fence you'd have the belief that all eastern Europeans are constant worker drones never committing crime or claiming anything and the other side think their Satan!.
The Devil moves in mysterious ways " | |||
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"The bbc are biased towards the left, youd be better off looking at live leak, articles on facebook, the mail or express to find out whats realy happening in this country. Look to the Daily Mail and Daily Express for the truth? Hahahahahahaha, I've just fallen off my chair.
That made me chuckle a lot, you've cheered my day up. Have a good idea for throwing into the fire tonight, those papers and the sun "Ok, if you don't like those papers try reading, Breitbart London, This is England, Mad world news or British patriots society, to name just a few. | |||
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"The bbc are biased towards the left, youd be better off looking at live leak, articles on facebook, the mail or express to find out whats realy happening in this country. Look to the Daily Mail and Daily Express for the truth? Hahahahahahaha, I've just fallen off my chair.
That made me chuckle a lot, you've cheered my day up. Have a good idea for throwing into the fire tonight, those papers and the sun
Ok, if you don't like those papers try reading, Breitbart London, This is England, Mad world news or British patriots society, to name just a few. "Breitbart? The very right wing pusher of exaggeration and imagination? I thought the Daily Mail was a ludicrous suggestion but it gets worse. | |||
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"There's 2 poles in our garden we tied some rope between them and now hang the washing on it. They've been there since our mum moved there in 1973 They have haven't been a bit of trouble, unlike the British rope that's broke a few times" | |||
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"The bbc are biased towards the left, youd be better off looking at live leak, articles on facebook, the mail or express to find out whats realy happening in this country. Look to the Daily Mail and Daily Express for the truth? Hahahahahahaha, I've just fallen off my chair.
That made me chuckle a lot, you've cheered my day up. Have a good idea for throwing into the fire tonight, those papers and the sun
Ok, if you don't like those papers try reading, Breitbart London, This is England, Mad world news or British patriots society, to name just a few.
Breitbart? The very right wing pusher of exaggeration and imagination?
I thought the Daily Mail was a ludicrous suggestion but it gets worse. "No, very good.  | |||
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"To be honest I think the constant 'hot topic' of immigration deflects attention from a lot of real issues and problems! We live in a society which, via its benefit system, actively encourages the less educated members of society to have a large number of children that they have neither the ability nor the intention of ever supporting themselves. It is far more lucrative to have a new child every few years to keep the benefits rolling in than it is to work in a low-paid job! We are one of the few countries in the world who, by the nature of our benefits system, actively encourage many people NOT to work! Until we elect a government who has the balls to put a stop to the current system, our economy will be in turmoil with our without immigration. And yep - I'm qualified to comment on this. I lived in a very 'dodgy' council estate for six years and was considered weird because I chose to take a low paid job rather than have more children that I couldn't afford to support. I also have a neice in her thirties who has worked for about 6 months of her life - she has 6 kids on benefits - and knows more about how to get unlimited benefits than any DSS employee! (she gets a new people carrier every 3 years because her partner has a clot on his leg caused by a lifetime of smoking) - she gets carers allowance for 'taking care of him'! Dontcha all just feel great knowing where your tax is going?? xx
Our economy is not in turmoil because of the benefits system. The type of benefits you've described in your post are not the problem when looking at our GDP and the performance of our economy.
Well educated people in power or trying to get power with an agenda simply play on the prejudice or fears of the less informed public in order to deflect from their failures or to achieve their goals.
It is easier to blame the poor or immigrants by feeding underlying prejudice than it is to be transparent on government failures to effectively close tax loopholes for the rich, or own up to the billions wasted in NHS reform, the debacle of how the government handled aspects of the banking crisis etc etc etc.
Ignorance of the real breakdown of our welfare state and it's impact on the public purse, ignorance of the real financial impact of immigration, added to underlying prejudice simply makes it easier for the newspaper sellers with an agenda and politicians to succeed in their goals.
You all owe it to yourselves as individuals to become better informed. Are you allowing you're prejudices to be used against you?" | |||
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"we have net of immigration ..... The actual numbers going out are in the thousands, coming in, in the hundreds of thousands. Well actually http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28964323 Net migration into the UK increased by more than 38% to 243,000 in 2013-14 with EU citizens accounting for two-thirds of the growth from the previous figure of 175,000. The number of migrants from Romania and Bulgaria increased from 12,000 to 28,000 over the period. Employment restrictions on citizens of the two countries were lifted in January. According to the migration figures from the Office for National Statistics, a total of 560,000 immigrants arrived in the UK over the 12-month period to March, while an estimated 316,000 people left. There was an increase in people migrating for work, to 228,000, while 177,000 arrivals were students. An increased number came to the UK to join family members. For the first time in nearly three years, the number of people migrating to the UK from outside the EU increased, to 265,000. Separate figures showed over 25% of births in England and Wales last year were to mothers themselves born abroad. Whatever you think of the figures, today's migration statistics are part of the story of an open market economy in a globalised world. Every year for the past 20, more people have been arriving in the UK than leaving. The reasons for those movements are complex and have regularly changed. The key factors were once students or those seeking refuge whilst today it is about work - and the attraction of the open British economy where businesses can recruit from a continental marketplace. Ministers have restricted immigration from outside the EU - but they have no power to stop the freedom of movement for work inside the club, as the British economy grows faster than other parts of Europe, workers will continue to arrive. " And why are so many leaving? Because there is no chance of a job. Because we have too many people, not enough jobs. Its not rocket science. | |||
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"Dont forget every eu worker here is a British person on the dole and needing support." Not necessarily, some immigrants start businesses and create jobs that wouldn't be there otherwise. Some immigrants contribute to society and the economy and stimulate growth and the creation of jobs. "every eu worker here who have kids needs Doctors, schools , dentist, hospitals ect ect ect." And if they work, they contribute towards those. "Country's fucked" I can't disagree with that but it's not due to immigrants or benefit claimants. | |||
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"And why are so many leaving? Because there is no chance of a job. Because we have too many people, not enough jobs. Its not rocket science." It's far from that simple. People emigrate for all sorts of reasons other than work. | |||
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"Then your free to use your siblings / friends identity to come back to Britain & begin the process again!" The ability to commit fraud isn't limited to immigrants. People can do it but it doesn't make it legal. | |||
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" Ok, if you don't like those papers try reading, Breitbart London, This is England, Mad world news or British patriots society, to name just a few. "is this the same breitbart that got discredited in the US for their part in the "shirley sherrod" scandal... for anyone who doesn't know, In July 2010 Breitbart was accused of smearing USDA official Shirley Sherrod with the viral video "Proof NAACP Awards Racism". Breitbart's video showed Sherrod speaking at a NAACP fundraising dinner in March 2010 admitting to a racial reluctance to help a white farmer get government aid. After being criticized for presenting Sherrod out of context, Breitbart posted the full 40-minute video of the speech. In the full video Sherrod said the reluctance to help a white man was wrong, and she had ended up assisting him. Following the release of the full video, the NAACP also reversed their rebuke of Sherrod, and Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack apologized and offered Sherrod a new government position. In 2011, Sherrod sued Breitbart for defamation. Breibart said that the point of the piece was not to target Sherrod, but said the NAACP audience's reception of the parts of the speech demonstrated the same racism the NAACP's President had accused The Tea Party of harboring. Breitbart also admitted that the video took Sherrod's comments out of context. And the ACORN undercover video scandal... Breitbart was also involved in the 2009 ACORN video controversy. Hannah Giles posed as a prostitute seeking tax and legal advice while James O'Keefe posed as her pimp, and clandestinely videotaped meetings with ACORN staff who "gave advice on house-buying and how to account on tax forms for the woman's income." Subsequent criminal investigations by the Brooklyn District Attorney's office and the California Attorney General found the videos were heavily edited in an attempt to make ACORN's responses "appear more sinister", and contributed to the group's demise. | |||
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" Dont forget every eu worker here is a British person on the dole and needing support." you are assuming that a lot of those people are in jobs that would have a british person available to do... of which there always isn't.... irony being a lot of the examples you give below...... and also last time i checked the people you are criticising also have to spend money.... and since we are net contributing, i am assuming they are actually keeping a lot of those same british workers in jobs, and as someone else has said... creating opotunities for people to wor "every eu worker here who have kids needs Doctors, schools , dentist, hospitals ect ect ect." and those doctors are being recruited a lot of time from outside the uk... because UK doctors nurses teachers ect are going abroad (irony that... ) and there isn't enough in the uk... know many unemployed doctors or dentists for example.... nope... neither do i!!! 
" Non eu benefit claiments are costing us millions, why are the news channels not making a fuss over that" because the proportion of them doing it is nowhere near the level of their "uk" counterparts...... about 10% of all those who have come in, as opposed to about 45% of all those who were "born here" "Because no one wants to be called a racist thats why. Countries fucked" because its too easy to blame everything on the immigrants.. and not so easy to be inward looking..... I don't blame people wanting to make a better life of themselves.... example... real life one that was made into a TV show you may remember... after germany re-unified there was a bit of a housing boom.... give ya 3 guesses where they got most of their builders, brickies, plumbers, ect from??? auf weidersehn pet!!!
....and you didn't hear people scream when it was brits who were benefiting from the oppotunities...... | |||
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"How this country ever survived and made Great in the old days i will never know" By stealing off black and brown people and sometimes killing them. Also... child labour, women as chattel... the Great British Empire was founded on many things! | |||
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"How this country ever survived and made Great in the old days i will never know" there's plenty of evidence out there if you want to look, most of it will be along the lines of mass exploitation, taking resources by force etc.. whether 'great' is the right word however is purely down to perception.. | |||
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" whether 'great' is the right word however is purely down to perception.. " It tells me all I need to know about someone that they think it was Great. | |||
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"Love the way people are conned into thinking these figures are great. Dont forget every eu worker here is a British person on the dole and needing support. every eu worker here who have kids needs Doctors, schools , dentist, hospitals ect ect ect. Non eu bebifit claiments are costing us millions, why are the news channels not making a fuss over that Because no one wants to be called a racist thats why. Countries fucked" | |||
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"How this country ever survived and made Great in the old days i will never know By stealing off black and brown people and sometimes killing them. Also... child labour, women as chattel... the Great British Empire was founded on many things! " .... We still do all of the above!. We just exported our nasty habits, child labour Bangladesh, Nigeria for toxic dumping, any middle Eastern country for female abuse.
Were still killing people ask over the world in the name of democracy but in reality it's just imperialism by the back door | |||
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"How this country ever survived and made Great in the old days i will never know By stealing off black and brown people and sometimes killing them. Also... child labour, women as chattel... the Great British Empire was founded on many things! ".... We still do all of the above!. We just exported our nasty habits, child labour Bangladesh, Nigeria for toxic dumping, any middle Eastern country for female abuse.
Were still killing people all over the world in the name of democracy but in reality it's just imperialism by the back door | |||
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"Love the way people are conned into thinking these figures are great. Dont forget every eu worker here is a British person on the dole and needing support. every eu worker here who have kids needs Doctors, schools , dentist, hospitals ect ect ect. Non eu bebifit claiments are costing us millions, why are the news channels not making a fuss over that Because no one wants to be called a racist thats why. Countries fucked" There are lots of doctors who practise medicine in this country who are not born in Britain the same as teachers, dentists and nurses etc...so theatrically EU and non EU workers who are helping those you stated that particular profession are helping...without those wishing to come aboard to practise medicine and train to be a teacher or dentist we would be short on all of them...we would certainly shout from the rooftops if we had no doctors etc...when people ask why the answer would be because we didn't want them lot here..we wanted to go back to where they come from... | |||
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"Love the way people are conned into thinking these figures are great. Dont forget every eu worker here is a British person on the dole and needing support. every eu worker here who have kids needs Doctors, schools , dentist, hospitals ect ect ect. Non eu bebifit claiments are costing us millions, why are the news channels not making a fuss over that Because no one wants to be called a racist thats why. Countries fucked There are lots of doctors who practise medicine in this country who are not born in Britain the same as teachers, dentists and nurses etc...so theatrically EU and non EU workers who are helping those you stated that particular profession are helping...without those wishing to come aboard to practise medicine and train to be a teacher or dentist we would be short on all of them...we would certainly shout from the rooftops if we had no doctors etc...when people ask why the answer would be because we didn't want them lot here..we wanted to go back to where they come from... " Trainee doctors here have little or no hope of getting jobs here due to the mass amount of non residents training and getting jobs fact - probably due to very good training here and also the cost that we have less people in training being saddled with £50k of debt for training and 80 hours a week work. The system sucks always has always will | |||
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"Love the way people are conned into thinking these figures are great. Dont forget every eu worker here is a British person on the dole and needing support. every eu worker here who have kids needs Doctors, schools , dentist, hospitals ect ect ect. Non eu bebifit claiments are costing us millions, why are the news channels not making a fuss over that Because no one wants to be called a racist thats why. Countries fucked There are lots of doctors who practise medicine in this country who are not born in Britain the same as teachers, dentists and nurses etc...so theatrically EU and non EU workers who are helping those you stated that particular profession are helping...without those wishing to come aboard to practise medicine and train to be a teacher or dentist we would be short on all of them...we would certainly shout from the rooftops if we had no doctors etc...when people ask why the answer would be because we didn't want them lot here..we wanted to go back to where they come from... Trainee doctors here have little or no hope of getting jobs here due to the mass amount of non residents training and getting jobs fact - probably due to very good training here and also the cost that we have less people in training being saddled with £50k of debt for training and 80 hours a week work. The system sucks always has always will " That's a fair point it's just what I have noted, if I can be educated on stuff I don't know about it then I've learnt something... | |||
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"Love the way people are conned into thinking these figures are great. Dont forget every eu worker here is a British person on the dole and needing support. every eu worker here who have kids needs Doctors, schools , dentist, hospitals ect ect ect. Non eu bebifit claiments are costing us millions, why are the news channels not making a fuss over that Because no one wants to be called a racist thats why. Countries fucked There are lots of doctors who practise medicine in this country who are not born in Britain the same as teachers, dentists and nurses etc...so theatrically EU and non EU workers who are helping those you stated that particular profession are helping...without those wishing to come aboard to practise medicine and train to be a teacher or dentist we would be short on all of them...we would certainly shout from the rooftops if we had no doctors etc...when people ask why the answer would be because we didn't want them lot here..we wanted to go back to where they come from... Trainee doctors here have little or no hope of getting jobs here due to the mass amount of non residents training and getting jobs fact - probably due to very good training here and also the cost that we have less people in training being saddled with £50k of debt for training and 80 hours a week work. The system sucks always has always will That's a fair point it's just what I have noted, if I can be educated on stuff I don't know about it then I've learnt something... "Always happy to share and as for immigration figures and costs no government wants to deal with it or any left wing group who say they will as it is massive the costs how the figures are massaged the undercover ops etc. the only people who wind up struggling are those on low incomes the genuine refugees who aren't exploited and the migrants that want to work legitimately. Unfortonately there is a huge black market industry in human life | |||
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"http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-29910497 An interesting early morning read - and one that flies in the face of widespread public perception. So much for them being a huge drain on society! The hardest hitting points to me were these: " they were a boon to the state and the public finances, not a burden." and " rest of us - the indigenous population - were a massive drain on the state " Have a read over your cornflakes - the numbers are certainly very interesting! A" Did someone mention "Cherry Picking" I think the BBC have done an awful lot of it looking at their report. The study by University college London did state (as the BBC trumpeted) that since 2000 EU immigration has produced a net contribution of around £20 billion. However what (from the same study) the BBC kept hidden in the detail was that non EU immigration has had a net cost of £120 billion since 1995. It also fails to mention that the EU figure is skewed by the large contributions by French bankers in the city of London and that three quarters of the amount comes from pre expansion nationalities. The study itself has focused its figures on EU immigrants who are young single and healthy without any allowance for the future burden on Schools, health, welfare, and infrastructure as they age and have families. As always, the devil is in the detail. | |||
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"Can anyone post a link to a job application that pays 2.50 an hour? I'd like to see one. . Potatoe picking in Lincolnshire I was asking for a link if anyone had one they had found. Otherwise I won't know that it's true or not. ...What! you want to see an illegal job posted on a job centre site... Despatches did an hour documentary on the illegal farming employment 6 months ago they estimated that 35% of immigrants were working in illegal employment. Some made barely 30 quid a week after farmers "housing and food provided" was taken into account. The government love immigration it pays muchos wonga! But all the negative sides of it you pay for. " And the cheap food we all demand comes about how? Slavery is alive and well in the UK. | |||
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"http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-29910497 An interesting early morning read - and one that flies in the face of widespread public perception. So much for them being a huge drain on society! The hardest hitting points to me were these: " they were a boon to the state and the public finances, not a burden." and " rest of us - the indigenous population - were a massive drain on the state " Have a read over your cornflakes - the numbers are certainly very interesting! A Did someone mention "Cherry Picking" I think the BBC have done an awful lot of it looking at their report. The study by University college London did state (as the BBC trumpeted) that since 2000 EU immigration has produced a net contribution of around £20 billion. However what (from the same study) the BBC kept hidden in the detail was that non EU immigration has had a net cost of £120 billion since 1995. It also fails to mention that the EU figure is skewed by the large contributions by French bankers in the city of London and that three quarters of the amount comes from pre expansion nationalities. The study itself has focused its figures on EU immigrants who are young single and healthy without any allowance for the future burden on Schools, health, welfare, and infrastructure as they age and have families. As always, the devil is in the detail. " Agreed
What I dislike about the whole debate is that people seem to conflate talking about the negative effects of immiragtion with racism and xenophobia.
Seems like people either become a cheerleader for the Greens or UKIP instead of actually trying to be pragmatic.
Stating the negatives of immigration is not the same as blaming or demonising the actual immigrants themselves but I'm not sure people undersand that. | |||
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"http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-29910497 An interesting early morning read - and one that flies in the face of widespread public perception. So much for them being a huge drain on society! The hardest hitting points to me were these: " they were a boon to the state and the public finances, not a burden." and " rest of us - the indigenous population - were a massive drain on the state " Have a read over your cornflakes - the numbers are certainly very interesting! A Did someone mention "Cherry Picking" I think the BBC have done an awful lot of it looking at their report. The study by University college London did state (as the BBC trumpeted) that since 2000 EU immigration has produced a net contribution of around £20 billion. However what (from the same study) the BBC kept hidden in the detail was that non EU immigration has had a net cost of £120 billion since 1995. It also fails to mention that the EU figure is skewed by the large contributions by French bankers in the city of London and that three quarters of the amount comes from pre expansion nationalities. The study itself has focused its figures on EU immigrants who are young single and healthy without any allowance for the future burden on Schools, health, welfare, and infrastructure as they age and have families. As always, the devil is in the detail. Agreed
What I dislike about the whole debate is that people seem to conflate talking about the negative effects of immiragtion with racism and xenophobia.
Seems like people either become a cheerleader for the Greens or UKIP instead of actually trying to be pragmatic.
Stating the negatives of immigration is not the same as blaming or demonising the actual immigrants themselves but I'm not sure people undersand that." Or (as is more likely) want to. | |||
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"How this country ever survived and made Great in the old days i will never know" Theft, slavery, no rights for anyone other than the landed classes. | |||
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"How this country ever survived and made Great in the old days i will never know Theft, slavery, no rights for anyone other than the landed classes." Excellent news, since we're heading back that way. We'll soon be "Great" again! Yay! | |||
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"http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-29910497 An interesting early morning read - and one that flies in the face of widespread public perception. So much for them being a huge drain on society! The hardest hitting points to me were these: " they were a boon to the state and the public finances, not a burden." and " rest of us - the indigenous population - were a massive drain on the state " Have a read over your cornflakes - the numbers are certainly very interesting! A Did someone mention "Cherry Picking" I think the BBC have done an awful lot of it looking at their report. The study by University college London did state (as the BBC trumpeted) that since 2000 EU immigration has produced a net contribution of around £20 billion. However what (from the same study) the BBC kept hidden in the detail was that non EU immigration has had a net cost of £120 billion since 1995. It also fails to mention that the EU figure is skewed by the large contributions by French bankers in the city of London and that three quarters of the amount comes from pre expansion nationalities. The study itself has focused its figures on EU immigrants who are young single and healthy without any allowance for the future burden on Schools, health, welfare, and infrastructure as they age and have families. As always, the devil is in the detail. " actually even after you put in that caveat... thats not necessarily true either.... and this is where the numbers are going to look scetchy...
in the time period... 2001 - 2011
EU Immigrants : net contribution... £20 billion
Non EU Immigrants: Net contribution £5 billion
UK Born citizens: net cost: £617 billion....
so lets look at the other set of figures.... 1995 - 2011
EU Immigrants : net contribution... £4.4 billion
Non- EU Immigrants: net cost £118 billion
UK born Citizens : net cost £591 Billion
now.... scetchy time... the 1995 data does have * next to it saying it isn't entirely reliable...and doesn't include just new migrants and probably overstates their costs for various reasons......
so the 1995 data isn't as reliable as the 2001 data....
their are some common threads in both:
1) immigrants saved the uk government in education costs (so that debunks the teachers thing.....) 7billion in the 2001 data, 49billion in the 1995 data
2) immigrants do claim benfits at as lesser rate than there uk counterparts.......
so people who come here do get jobs and pay taxes at a higher rate than get benefits....
and actually in the EU... they are more than paying their way
so.... perceptions.....perceptions....perceptions | |||
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"How this country ever survived and made Great in the old days i will never know By stealing off black and brown people and sometimes killing them. Also... child labour, women as chattel... the Great British Empire was founded on many things! "It wasn't really stealing. Almost everything we 'took' was swapped for bibles | |||
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"Interesting comparison! They also made a miraculous turnaround of their economy by smashing unions, forced labour, printing money, removing liberties and arms production." we should never think we are that far away from it, the conditions just have to be right. | |||
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"http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-29910497 An interesting early morning read - and one that flies in the face of widespread public perception. So much for them being a huge drain on society! The hardest hitting points to me were these: " they were a boon to the state and the public finances, not a burden." and " rest of us - the indigenous population - were a massive drain on the state " Have a read over your cornflakes - the numbers are certainly very interesting! A" including the romanians and other eastern block countries...................yeah thought not,carry on with cornflakes  | |||
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"http://bbc.co.uk/news/business-29910497 An interesting early morning read - and one that flies in the face of widespread public perception. So much for them being a huge drain on society! The hardest hitting points to me were these: " they were a boon to the state and the public finances, not a burden." and " rest of us - the indigenous population - were a massive drain on the state " Have a read over your cornflakes - the numbers are certainly very interesting! A How do they know these facts and figures?" That is what i would like to know. In contrast to this report that was released today, Migrationwatch UK has released a report that disputes the figures, and says that immigration over the Labour government years cost the public purse billions. So which report do you want to believe is the real question. What i do know is most current opinion polls suggest that the majority of the British public want immigration reduced and they feel the level of immigration is currently too high. | |||
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" Why is the "cost" of immigration always stated as £bn's? There are significant other costs relatig to this, no doubt not costed in the figures above. For example, the time and effort spent dealing with FGM which could be put to better use elsewhere. Similarly gabg, drug and gun cultures. 1400 ruined lives in Rotherham alone. New houses with the smallest living space in Europe. Overcrowded estates with little if any green spaces. Kids being held back at school because classmates form the 25% illiterate. No doubt people will either add more or shoot them down. " not enough is spent on abolishing FGM for me personally, will be better for those affected when its stopped.. so all 'gangs, guns and drugs etc' are by immigrants..? must also be the immigrants who are buying all these drugs as well eh, wouldn't be indigenous middle class types now would it..!! some of the highest performing kids in the country are from immigrant lineage, you just need to do some research to see that.. and you may want to read the report on Rotherham also.. but then you wouldn't do that as it may sway your agenda.. | |||
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"What I dislike about the whole debate is that people seem to conflate talking about the negative effects of immiragtion with racism and xenophobia. Seems like people either become a cheerleader for the Greens or UKIP instead of actually trying to be pragmatic. Stating the negatives of immigration is not the same as blaming or demonising the actual immigrants themselves but I'm not sure people undersand that." People understand that. But unfortunately, for every calm and reasonable person who wants to talk about immigration having negative consequences using facts, there seem to be about ten who just want to rant about the usual racist tropes. You can't really blame people being sensitive when the debate is dominated by UKIP and their 'bongo bongo land' quotes, and the Daily Mail which exists to sell papers by scaring people and/or stirring up outrage. | |||
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I can't be arsed ha! But do I do see a MASSIVE issue with ONE thing in that article. | |||
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" ...... The UK has limited useable living space, limited resources. ..... " We're nowhere near the limit of either. | |||
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"Report said EU immigrants =overall benefit of £15bn (over period from 1975 to 2011). Non EU total cost in same period £120bn It was later stated that the "benefit" was a net figure of taxes received and benefits paid (all kinds including child n tax credits etc) Unclear therefore as to if costs of using resources (NHS/schools. Etc) are included or not? Basically people (politicians) will take selectively and twist to fit their own rhetoric. ( lies, damn lies and statistics)" would that be the same kind of lies, damn lies and statistics the government are using in their recently announced letter to everyone showing nice colourful pie charts and meaningless figures which claim to show which sub group of citizens is stealing the most out of the "average" persons wallet or purse? | |||
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" If she had returned home due to the info she had given to our govement she would have been killed Where's the justice in that ? " Sounds a little 'Blackmail' took place there then - was she aware of our Governments stance on it (if she'd kept her mouth closed & said nothing, would she have been sent home then). I don't want to 'fall out' with anyone, just speculating . . . | |||
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" ...... The UK has limited useable living space, limited resources. ..... We're nowhere near the limit of either." Yes lots of land in Scotland | |||
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"Hello English People I'm not English!! I'm one of that people who is italian, having mix or polish genes too. And hey ho! I working hard, pay 22% tax, for yours retirement, from my money is support British government too. After having a child, when girl had 8 months I get back to work again. And how many people like me is here? Maybe we could talk about this side of immigrants? Statistic how much Poles, Italians etc pay taxes, put money into British economy? How much we have debt and incomes comparing with English people? Our incomes arent from benefits. When I read or hear news like that I'm feeling sick." Whilst some are taken in by government rhetoric, plenty are able to see that the problems in this country are not due to immigrants. Don't worry, some of us realise more immigrants work and contribute than don't. | |||
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" Why is the "cost" of immigration always stated as £bn's? There are significant other costs relatig to this, no doubt not costed in the figures above. For example, the time and effort spent dealing with FGM which could be put to better use elsewhere. Similarly gabg, drug and gun cultures. 1400 ruined lives in Rotherham alone. New houses with the smallest living space in Europe. Overcrowded estates with little if any green spaces. Kids being held back at school because classmates form the 25% illiterate. No doubt people will either add more or shoot them down. " | |||
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"Hello English People I'm not English!! I'm one of that people who is italian, having mix or polish genes too. And hey ho! I working hard, pay 22% tax, for yours retirement, from my money is support British government too. After having a child, when girl had 8 months I get back to work again. And how many people like me is here? Maybe we could talk about this side of immigrants? Statistic how much Poles, Italians etc pay taxes, put money into British economy? How much we have debt and incomes comparing with English people? Our incomes arent from benefits. When I read or hear news like that I'm feeling sick. Whilst some are taken in by government rhetoric, plenty are able to see that the problems in this country are not due to immigrants. Don't worry, some of us realise more immigrants work and contribute than don't." | |||
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"Hello English People I'm not English!! I'm one of that people who is italian, having mix or polish genes too. And hey ho! I working hard, pay 22% tax, for yours retirement, from my money is support British government too. After having a child, when girl had 8 months I get back to work again. And how many people like me is here? You pay for any future retirement benefits you will be entitled to not other people's Maybe we could talk about this side of immigrants? Statistic how much Poles, Italians etc pay taxes, put money into British economy? How much we have debt and incomes comparing with English people? Our incomes arent from benefits. When I read or hear news like that I'm feeling sick." | |||
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" Keep it simple then. The UK has limited useable living space, limited resources. The current known population is estimated at say 63.5 million people. Would anyone care to state how high they'd like it to become? 70m 80m 100m When does it stop, if at all? " 72 million in 30 years how long to get to 100million after that. Fueled by immigrants and their off spring | |||
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"What I dislike about the whole debate is that people seem to conflate talking about the negative effects of immiragtion with racism and xenophobia. Seems like people either become a cheerleader for the Greens or UKIP instead of actually trying to be pragmatic. Stating the negatives of immigration is not the same as blaming or demonising the actual immigrants themselves but I'm not sure people undersand that. People understand that. But unfortunately, for every calm and reasonable person who wants to talk about immigration having negative consequences using facts, there seem to be about ten who just want to rant about the usual racist tropes. You can't really blame people being sensitive when the debate is dominated by UKIP and their 'bongo bongo land' quotes, and the Daily Mail which exists to sell papers by scaring people and/or stirring up outrage." Not sure they do to be honest! | |||
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"I remember an occasion about 6 months ago where a Romanian approached my friends & I whilst sitting at a bench outside a pub. He spoke fairly good English but the thing that really astonished me he was BEGGING because he said he was homeless ! ! ! If foreign people come to my country to work (& narrowing the chance of British people securing work) then it's bad enough, but coming over here to beg ! ? ! ?" | |||
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"I have a friend who was here as a refugee from Somewhere I won't disclose She was refused asylum but it went to tribunal She was here for 7 years she couldn't work she wasnt allowed to She couldn't receive any benefits either She stuck by those rules though the whole 7 years Thankfully she got leave to stay in the end It was only because she had a good network of friends that looked after her and gave her a place to stay that whole time If she had returned home due to the info she had given to our govement she would have been killed Where's the justice in that ? " One question? when did France, Belgium, Holland, Denmark, Norway or Iceland start killing their citizens? That is terrible news. But I suspect your friend was from further afield and if so I ask another question: Why did she not stop (as she was obliged to do) at the first 'Country of safe haven'? May I suggest she, like all those over in Calais right now are not asylum seekers but economic migrants. The rules on Asylum are very clear and laid down by the UN. I wish our Government would enforce them and send these people back, not to where they come from, but to where they should have claimed asylum. Travelling past such a country and heading for the UK means they are NOT asylum seekers. And asylum seekers get some £178 a week with cash, vouchers and other payments. plus they will get free accommodation. They are NOT just cast adrift in society. www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN01909.pdf | |||
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"Actually it was Thatcher that signed the freedom of movement in the 80,s." Well yes as part of a treaty.. you forgot that bit! But that was for a known quantity. A known situation of a known set of nations whose economies were roughly aligned. You miss my point which was what Labour did was to exploit the situation where 10 new and relatively poor countries joined the EU and while other countries blocked immigration for 7 years or more we didn't. And as I said actively advertised for them to come here for their political ends and to "rub the Right's noses in it". But I think you knew that and were trying to deflect the real blame ... | |||
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"Actually it was Thatcher that signed the freedom of movement in the 80,s." Yes that is true, but for a Europe of 12 or 15 countries. Not 28 including all the former communist basket cases. | |||
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"I remember an occasion about 6 months ago where a Romanian approached my friends & I whilst sitting at a bench outside a pub. He spoke fairly good English but the thing that really astonished me he was BEGGING because he said he was homeless ! ! ! If foreign people come to my country to work (& narrowing the chance of British people securing work) then it's bad enough, but coming over here to beg ! ? ! ?" What a shortsighted, insular and petty view to take. There has been so many news reports and documentaries showing how so many people are exploited, sold into slavery, prostitution and the like and that are forced to live homeless rather than be exploited by gangs Inc the great so called indigenous population. I'm not saying there are no chancers among them but look to our own too, we are often just as bad and often worse. Hope you never find yourself somewhere relying on the aid of others if they are all to take your little Englander views. | |||
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"I have a friend who was here as a refugee from Somewhere I won't disclose She was refused asylum but it went to tribunal She was here for 7 years she couldn't work she wasnt allowed to She couldn't receive any benefits either She stuck by those rules though the whole 7 years Thankfully she got leave to stay in the end It was only because she had a good network of friends that looked after her and gave her a place to stay that whole time If she had returned home due to the info she had given to our govement she would have been killed Where's the justice in that ? One question? when did France, Belgium, Holland, Denmark, Norway or Iceland start killing their citizens? That is terrible news. But I suspect your friend was from further afield and if so I ask another question: Why did she not stop (as she was obliged to do) at the first 'Country of safe haven'? May I suggest she, like all those over in Calais right now are not asylum seekers but economic migrants. The rules on Asylum are very clear and laid down by the UN. I wish our Government would enforce them and send these people back, not to where they come from, but to where they should have claimed asylum. Travelling past such a country and heading for the UK means they are NOT asylum seekers. And asylum seekers get some £178 a week with cash, vouchers and other payments. plus they will get free accommodation. They are NOT just cast adrift in society. www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN01909.pdf" In answer to your question She came here because she had family here they shunned her because she spoke out And now she's doing well she's working saving other lives all over the world and yes she pays taxes here She is no strain on our govement she wont even use the nhs I admire her and would gladly fight for her any day D x | |||
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"I never thought of that - it's given me ideas about holidaying in Romania to BEG ! ! ! Though (as I've mentioned before) I don't want to tar them all with the same brush, I still believe charity begins at home (his own country)!" By accident of birth and a chance in a billion, you were born into a wealthy and civilised society. Your complete lack of humility suggests that you do not appreciate how lucky you were. | |||
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"The arguments can rage on and on but the fact is the British public were brainwashed by Labour into accepting mass immigration and vilified if they dared suggest it wasn't a good idea. We do not need millions of people from all over the world coming into this country, we never have and we never will. It's the system that's screwed up and immigrants were a quick fix to problems that didn't get the consideration, forward planning and innovation that they required. For all those who are pro immigration I'd like to know where we should draw the line ? Because the quality of life for everyone in this country , except the very rich will go down. Less space, more pollution, more congestion, less resources, longer waiting, for everything! Should we carry on and hope the numbers go down or should we actually say , enough now? What will this country be like in 20 or 30 years time and beyond? When the children of the current settlers are having children, when the current adults are needing financial support and health care in their advancing years. what then, look for another few million to come here to support them .... ad infinitum... " | |||
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"Hello English People I'm not English!! I'm one of that people who is italian, having mix or polish genes too. And hey ho! I working hard, pay 22% tax, for yours retirement, from my money is support British government too. After having a child, when girl had 8 months I get back to work again. And how many people like me is here? Maybe we could talk about this side of immigrants? Statistic how much Poles, Italians etc pay taxes, put money into British economy? How much we have debt and incomes comparing with English people? Our incomes arent from benefits. When I read or hear news like that I'm feeling sick." I think you'll find you're far from alone, i don't think i know a single "indigenous" English person, since frankly they don't exist. I myself am split nationality, though was born in England and have spent much of my adult life here (i do however speak three languages which is remarkably useful for work!). The problem we have now is the same that happens during every single financial crisis in history, it's easier to blame the outsider or the other than it is look at deeper problems in the system in general. I'm personally old enough to remember this all from other times, and laugh at a lot of the anecdotes that are trotted out against these "scrounging" immigrants because, well, they're normally not true. I also don't tend to think the people saying them are intentionally racist or xenophobic in the main, just misinformed and scared. The best thing we can all do is point out in a nice way that they should look around their circle of friends and ask themselves who they know that doesn't have some connection to immigration. One thing i've been immensely proud of down the years about England/Britain is that generally as a country it hasn't done the extremes as much as others, and has tended towards a very accepting and tolerant society. The idea of what you do behind closed doors is non of my business is a national trait, as is the idea that i don't care where you come from or what you look like just don't act like a wanker. In my opinion there's a very vocal small minority that go against this, and it doesn't help if you back them into a corner and shout racist at them, instead we should engage and ask ourselves what is the cause of their anger (and i don't mean immigration since there's normally a cause that makes people use it as stick) , and how do we fix that problem. We hear the common themes from most that it's jobs, social services (like the NHS etc) and housing, those are things we need to fix. The problem is that the people who broke those are the ones that gain the most from an anti immigration stance, since their policies tend towards them. What we need is to repair the left in this country so it can help those that need it the most, rather than running further and further to the right and pushing generations (of all backgrounds) into further misery and poverty. Anyway i normally avoid these conversations, since at times i get a bit offended at some of the language used, as people might not realise they're most likely talking in quite nasty terms about members of families of people on here. | |||
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To the post above my long one | |||
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