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NHS Strike
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"Nurses have always complained about their pay so why do they become nurses then? of course everyone has the right to strike but why moan about mps getting more money the same as lots of other people who get paid lots of money for doing easy jobs where they do very little work, no one ever said life is fair did they, so no point in being envious." Because nursing is generally female dominated and started off more lowly paid. Now the gender gap in pay is getting bigger. Also why should not any worker be paid a fair wage. Nursing is now a degree led profession and compared to other degree led occupations is appallingly paid. Is that good enough reason? ! . | |||
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"Nurses have always complained about their pay so why do they become nurses then? of course everyone has the right to strike but why moan about mps getting more money the same as lots of other people who get paid lots of money for doing easy jobs where they do very little work, no one ever said life is fair did they, so no point in being envious." Not everyone wants to join in the rave to the bottom. | |||
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"Funny how the MP's were 'forced' to take their increase recommend by the payboard. Whereas they have the ability to ignore what is recommended for some of the public sector workers! "Most strange 
It's funny also how if they get caught "accidentally" claiming thousands of pounds they're not entitled to, they get a slapped wrist and told not to do it again, whereas those fraudulently claiming benefits (0.7% of claims), usually for far smaller amounts can result in criminal proceedings, conviction, a criminal record and having to pay it all back...
Who are the real scroungers? | |||
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"Nurses have always complained about their pay so why do they become nurses then? of course everyone has the right to strike but why moan about mps getting more money the same as lots of other people who get paid lots of money for doing easy jobs where they do very little work, no one ever said life is fair did they, so no point in being envious. Because nursing is generally female dominated and started off more lowly paid. Now the gender gap in pay is getting bigger. Also why should not any worker be paid a fair wage. Nursing is now a degree led profession and compared to other degree led occupations is appallingly paid. Is that good enough reason? ! . "Why not become a doctor then, they get paid more. Also as a lot of nurses are married it doesn't matter so much because their husbands are bringing in a wage as well. There are lots of other jobs they could do instead if they wanted too. | |||
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"Nurses have always complained about their pay so why do they become nurses then? of course everyone has the right to strike but why moan about mps getting more money the same as lots of other people who get paid lots of money for doing easy jobs where they do very little work, no one ever said life is fair did they, so no point in being envious." When most public sector workers have been limited to no/tiny pay rises for several years, the same level of pay rises should apply to MPs. They're no more entitled to public funds than anyone else who works for publicly funded organisations. If the economy isn't able to support fair wages and wage rises for public sector workers then that should include MPs. | |||
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"Nurses have always complained about their pay so why do they become nurses then? of course everyone has the right to strike but why moan about mps getting more money the same as lots of other people who get paid lots of money for doing easy jobs where they do very little work, no one ever said life is fair did they, so no point in being envious. Because nursing is generally female dominated and started off more lowly paid. Now the gender gap in pay is getting bigger. Also why should not any worker be paid a fair wage. Nursing is now a degree led profession and compared to other degree led occupations is appallingly paid. Is that good enough reason? ! .
Why not become a doctor then, they get paid more. Also as a lot of nurses are married it doesn't matter so much because their husbands are bringing in a wage as well. There are lots of other jobs they could do instead if they wanted too."Yes because nurses are entirely non essential. You do say some ridiculous things sometimes. | |||
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"Nurses have always complained about their pay so why do they become nurses then? of course everyone has the right to strike but why moan about mps getting more money the same as lots of other people who get paid lots of money for doing easy jobs where they do very little work, no one ever said life is fair did they, so no point in being envious. Because nursing is generally female dominated and started off more lowly paid. Now the gender gap in pay is getting bigger. Also why should not any worker be paid a fair wage. Nursing is now a degree led profession and compared to other degree led occupations is appallingly paid. Is that good enough reason? ! .
Why not become a doctor then, they get paid more. Also as a lot of nurses are married it doesn't matter so much because their husbands are bringing in a wage as well. There are lots of other jobs they could do instead if they wanted too."I have to disagree. Nursing is a vocation. You go into it, at the beginning anyway, to make a difference. | |||
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"Nurses have always complained about their pay so why do they become nurses then? of course everyone has the right to strike but why moan about mps getting more money the same as lots of other people who get paid lots of money for doing easy jobs where they do very little work, no one ever said life is fair did they, so no point in being envious. Because nursing is generally female dominated and started off more lowly paid. Now the gender gap in pay is getting bigger. Also why should not any worker be paid a fair wage. Nursing is now a degree led profession and compared to other degree led occupations is appallingly paid. Is that good enough reason? ! .
Why not become a doctor then, they get paid more. Also as a lot of nurses are married it doesn't matter so much because their husbands are bringing in a wage as well. There are lots of other jobs they could do instead if they wanted too."What century do you live in? Its that very attitude that helps such gender discrimination regarding pay! | |||
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"People become nurses because they like the idea of looking after and caring for others... One of the first things this gov did was disemploy many people who work in the public sector, leaving more work for those left employed in it. I've noticed services take longer now, plenty of staff are fed up (especially the ones asked to do overtime for nothing). They deserve to be paid." A lot of nurses don't like looking after and caring about people though do they you only have to see the news and spend time in hospital yourself to see that. some are very good but not all. especialy since they did away with matrons. | |||
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"Nurses have always complained about their pay so why do they become nurses then? of course everyone has the right to strike but why moan about mps getting more money the same as lots of other people who get paid lots of money for doing easy jobs where they do very little work, no one ever said life is fair did they, so no point in being envious. Because nursing is generally female dominated and started off more lowly paid. Now the gender gap in pay is getting bigger. Also why should not any worker be paid a fair wage. Nursing is now a degree led profession and compared to other degree led occupations is appallingly paid. Is that good enough reason? ! . Why not become a doctor then, they get paid more. Also as a lot of nurses are married it doesn't matter so much because their husbands are bringing in a wage as well. There are lots of other jobs they could do instead if they wanted too." Everything you say is right in very simple terms but actual, real life isn't like that. Have you any idea how much it costs to become a doctor? Do you know how many nurses are married, how many are men, how many have partners also in low paid jobs? If life was as easy and straightforward as you seem to think it is there would be no problem. | |||
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"Whether someone is married or not, what the hell does it have to do with what they are paid? "It matters no more than their gender but more people think like that than we realise unfortunately. | |||
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"People become nurses because they like the idea of looking after and caring for others... One of the first things this gov did was disemploy many people who work in the public sector, leaving more work for those left employed in it. I've noticed services take longer now, plenty of staff are fed up (especially the ones asked to do overtime for nothing). They deserve to be paid. A lot of nurses don't like looking after and caring about people though do they you only have to see the news and spend time in hospital yourself to see that. some are very good but not all. especialy since they did away with matrons." I'm diabetic, had 4 kids, 2 of which have needed extra help (one an operation at alder hey), I see (and have seen regularly over the years) a lot of nurses, they've always been over worked because caring professions are under staffed, last gov even offered incentives to get into caring work because hardly anyone wants to do it. Most medical staff are lovely, yeah the few crappy people make the news because the news thrives on the unusual or things outside of our norms but otherwise I've always found people tend to go into their job to care for others. I've lived all over too so been to a fair amount if hospitals as well. All my reply is based on my own personal experience though. | |||
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"MPs could donate their pay rise that they didn't want... Think some of them already said they would anyway. But yeah good luck to anyone being fucked over by this coalition government." A fare comment lol | |||
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"MPs could donate their pay rise that they didn't want... Think some of them already said they would anyway. But yeah good luck to anyone being fucked over by this coalition government. A fare comment lol "Lol, hi there... | |||
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"Hmmm.. I don't know where to start replying to this comment. How do you know they don't like looking after patients? Are you on the same Daily Mail/Government spouting rubbish about these daily for the past few years? And you probably think GPs and Hospital Doctors are money grabbing people who never cares for their patients nor want the best for the patients? Okay, I claim I've got an interest in here as I am a medic. Do you even realise how stretched the NHS is at the moment? If you know the understaffing with the nurses, the stress the nurses are under - I bet you wouldn't be saying these things. How do you not expect a nurse to be tired, when there's only 2 or 3 on a shift, to care for 30 patients. How safe can that be? Can you imagine those 2-3 nurses running after one patient after the other non-stop? It's not just the medications to be given on time, it's also the bed pans to clear, the IV drips to be set up, bringing a patient back from theatre, checking neuroobservations hourly - how on earth is someone not to feel burnt out? And what do you expect when as expected, there will be gaps in the shifts, and you're being told "no, you won't get paid, you just take back time off in lieu" - When does that make sense when in the first place, you're so shortstaffed that you can't get time off in lieu? Please don't just listen to Jeremy Hunt, or even the NHS England - they've got their own agendas, as does Daily Mail. Just sit (if you can) with a nurse or a doctor - and if they can spend the time with you rather than having to run around keeping the NHS alive, they'll be able to tell you how dire the NHS is in today. When almost everybody shares the same stories, you will see that what the papers are saying and what Jeremy Hunt is saying is all utter rubbish.. " | |||
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"People become nurses because they like the idea of looking after and caring for others... One of the first things this gov did was disemploy many people who work in the public sector, leaving more work for those left employed in it. I've noticed services take longer now, plenty of staff are fed up (especially the ones asked to do overtime for nothing). They deserve to be paid. A lot of nurses don't like looking after and caring about people though do they you only have to see the news and spend time in hospital yourself to see that. some are very good but not all. especialy since they did away with matrons." Youre no half talking alot of shite in this thread. For starters there may not be matrons anymore but there are folk by different titles doing that job. It didnt just become an obsolete job you know | |||
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"MPs could donate their pay rise that they didn't want... Think some of them already said they would anyway. But yeah good luck to anyone being fucked over by this coalition government. A fare comment lol
Lol, hi there... " | |||
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"People become nurses because they like the idea of looking after and caring for others... One of the first things this gov did was disemploy many people who work in the public sector, leaving more work for those left employed in it. I've noticed services take longer now, plenty of staff are fed up (especially the ones asked to do overtime for nothing). They deserve to be paid. A lot of nurses don't like looking after and caring about people though do they you only have to see the news and spend time in hospital yourself to see that. some are very good but not all. especialy since they did away with matrons. Youre no half talking alot of shite in this thread. For starters there may not be matrons anymore but there are folk by different titles doing that job. It didnt just become an obsolete job you know" no I talk a lot of sense, just that you don't agree with my opinions. | |||
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"Nurses have always complained about their pay so why do they become nurses then? of course everyone has the right to strike but why moan about mps getting more money the same as lots of other people who get paid lots of money for doing easy jobs where they do very little work, no one ever said life is fair did they, so no point in being envious. Because nursing is generally female dominated and started off more lowly paid. Now the gender gap in pay is getting bigger. Also why should not any worker be paid a fair wage. Nursing is now a degree led profession and compared to other degree led occupations is appallingly paid. Is that good enough reason? ! .
Why not become a doctor then, they get paid more. Also as a lot of nurses are married it doesn't matter so much because their husbands are bringing in a wage as well. There are lots of other jobs they could do instead if they wanted too.
Yes because nurses are entirely non essential.
You do say some ridiculous things sometimes. "I'm sorry but I tend to agree! It's been a while since I've read such utter bollocks...a lot of nurses?? Are married? There are about as many married as unmarried, so those who are married, to guys whom earn a good wage deserve to.. Earn a pittance for the tireless often thankless job they do? And become a doctor?  madness complete madness. | |||
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"Hmmm.. I don't know where to start replying to this comment. How do you know they don't like looking after patients? Are you on the same Daily Mail/Government spouting rubbish about these daily for the past few years? And you probably think GPs and Hospital Doctors are money grabbing people who never cares for their patients nor want the best for the patients? Okay, I claim I've got an interest in here as I am a medic. Do you even realise how stretched the NHS is at the moment? If you know the understaffing with the nurses, the stress the nurses are under - I bet you wouldn't be saying these things. How do you not expect a nurse to be tired, when there's only 2 or 3 on a shift, to care for 30 patients. How safe can that be? Can you imagine those 2-3 nurses running after one patient after the other non-stop? It's not just the medications to be given on time, it's also the bed pans to clear, the IV drips to be set up, bringing a patient back from theatre, checking neuroobservations hourly - how on earth is someone not to feel burnt out? And what do you expect when as expected, there will be gaps in the shifts, and you're being told "no, you won't get paid, you just take back time off in lieu" - When does that make sense when in the first place, you're so shortstaffed that you can't get time off in lieu? Please don't just listen to Jeremy Hunt, or even the NHS England - they've got their own agendas, as does Daily Mail. Just sit (if you can) with a nurse or a doctor - and if they can spend the time with you rather than having to run around keeping the NHS alive, they'll be able to tell you how dire the NHS is in today. When almost everybody shares the same stories, you will see that what the papers are saying and what Jeremy Hunt is saying is all utter rubbish.. "Hallejha fookin lluagh this is so spot on! | |||
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"Nurses have always complained about their pay so why do they become nurses then? of course everyone has the right to strike but why moan about mps getting more money the same as lots of other people who get paid lots of money for doing easy jobs where they do very little work, no one ever said life is fair did they, so no point in being envious. Because nursing is generally female dominated and started off more lowly paid. Now the gender gap in pay is getting bigger. Also why should not any worker be paid a fair wage. Nursing is now a degree led profession and compared to other degree led occupations is appallingly paid. Is that good enough reason? ! .
Why not become a doctor then, they get paid more. Also as a lot of nurses are married it doesn't matter so much because their husbands are bringing in a wage as well. There are lots of other jobs they could do instead if they wanted too."I know two me who are both trained nurses, one us a psychiatric nurse, the other a trained midwife. Bit sexist I need your ideas. I wonder if you would care to mention what you put here the next time you are in hospital, see how caring the nurse is with you then???? | |||
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"single nurses should get more money because they have to pay for everything themselves, makes sense to me." Why? So two nurses side by side? Doing the exact same job. One gets paid more than the other because she is single? Yes makes perfect sense!  go figure | |||
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"single nurses should get more money because they have to pay for everything themselves, makes sense to me." Would that apply to every other occupation too. Jeez, can't believe I am reading some of this stuff in the 21st century. Oh btw, how would you like to discrimination between single parents who are nurses or maybe nurses with other commitments? Lol Thank god you don't sit on a equal opportunities board..... Or do you? | |||
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"I soon want to give a lengthy answer to this thread but I've not got time as I'm going into work early to help with staff shortages in my ward. Oh and I won't get paid for it. I may get time back if they ever have enough staff to enable it. " Why don't you look for another job then? | |||
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"single nurses should get more money because they have to pay for everything themselves, makes sense to me. Would that apply to every other occupation too. Jeez, can't believe I am reading some of this stuff in the 21st century. Oh btw, how would you like to discrimination between single parents who are nurses or maybe nurses with other commitments? Lol Thank god you don't sit on a equal opportunities board..... Or do you? "I'm somewhat sure she was being sarcastic | |||
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"I soon want to give a lengthy answer to this thread but I've not got time as I'm going into work early to help with staff shortages in my ward. Oh and I won't get paid for it. I may get time back if they ever have enough staff to enable it. Why don't you look for another job then?" Maybe they like the one they have but don't like some of the conditions. I think your comments serve a very useful purpose Hilda because they make people examine their own reasons for thinking the way they do but sometimes they border on the offensive. | |||
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So because my husband earns I should therefore earn less then single jane doe.. Regardless of the fact most nurses are over worked and under appreciated, I know someone who does nursing and oftenly works back to back shifts with barely any breaks working sometimes 15 hours a day..
Some people talk complete rubbish sometimes. | |||
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"single nurses should get more money because they have to pay for everything themselves, makes sense to me." what makes perfect sense to you Hilda doesn't necessarily make perfect sense to the rest of us. I have long held the opinion that you post only in order to wind us all up | |||
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"I soon want to give a lengthy answer to this thread but I've not got time as I'm going into work early to help with staff shortages in my ward. Oh and I won't get paid for it. I may get time back if they ever have enough staff to enable it. Why don't you look for another job then?" Are you honestly buttoned up the back?!?!? As a public sector worker myself, I see how much nurses are over worked and under paid! I'd say the majority of nurses choose that career because the want to help and "nurse" people! "Why don't they become doctors" is the quote I believed you used.... Well it's two completely different roles for a start! Personally I think what your coming out with is a lot of nonsense and you should maybe go and see a nurse to get your head checked!
Oh and as you said too..... You may not agree but this is my opinion | |||
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"single nurses should get more money because they have to pay for everything themselves, makes sense to me." Hilda you are with respect talking rubbish on this subject and your not even being consistent in doing so.. you clearly have little or no idea about what being a professional nurse actually entails today and the actual reality of the work loads and the staffing shortages.. perhaps speak to some within the profession ..? just a thought | |||
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"I soon want to give a lengthy answer to this thread but I've not got time as I'm going into work early to help with staff shortages in my ward. Oh and I won't get paid for it. I may get time back if they ever have enough staff to enable it. Why don't you look for another job then? Are you honestly buttoned up the back?!?!? As a public sector worker myself, I see how much nurses are over worked and under paid! I'd say the majority of nurses choose that career because the want to help and "nurse" people! "Why don't they become doctors" is the quote I believed you used.... Well it's two completely different roles for a start! Personally I think what your coming out with is a lot of nonsense and you should maybe go and see a nurse to get your head checked!
Oh and as you said too..... You may not agree but this is my opinion "Not clever enough to be doctors.  | |||
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"Not clever enough to be doctors. "Uch away bile yer heid wumin! | |||
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" Not clever enough to be doctors. "Define 'clever'. Plus doctors just have general knowledge, enough to pass patients onto specialists who work in hospitals. | |||
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"The NHS has a budget and all staff are paid out of that budget, so there are only so many choices. We as tax payers must pay more tax so the NHS budget can be increased! or pay them the 1% from the existing budget and either reduce staff numbers or services offered to pay for the wage increase. " Less so called managers = more nurses | |||
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" Not clever enough to be doctors.
Define 'clever'.
Plus doctors just have general knowledge, enough to pass patients onto specialists who work in hospitals.
"Brainier. | |||
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"Just another point....when listening to radio 5 this morning, I was shocked at how many people who did support the nurses, changed their minds once they listened to the unions, as the unions where politicising the argument too much" I haven't got much time for unions, but I would support any wage increase for nurses, or firemen for that matter | |||
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"single nurses should get more money because they have to pay for everything themselves, makes sense to me." Are you actually for real? Why should a single nurse get paid more? It's their choice to be single, it's their choice to pay everything for themselves. Nurses who are married with kids probably end up with less of their wage than a single nurse by they pay their bills etc. Absolute imbecile!! | |||
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"MPs could donate their pay rise that they didn't want... Think some of them already said they would anyway. But yeah good luck to anyone being fucked over by this coalition government." agreed totally  | |||
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"I soon want to give a lengthy answer to this thread but I've not got time as I'm going into work early to help with staff shortages in my ward. Oh and I won't get paid for it. I may get time back if they ever have enough staff to enable it. Why don't you look for another job then?" You still haven't commented about the fact that not everyone wants to join in your race to the bottom. | |||
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"I soon want to give a lengthy answer to this thread but I've not got time as I'm going into work early to help with staff shortages in my ward. Oh and I won't get paid for it. I may get time back if they ever have enough staff to enable it. Why don't you look for another job then? You still haven't commented about the fact that not everyone wants to join in your race to the bottom." You make your bed, then you have to lie in it. As my old mum used to say.  | |||
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"I soon want to give a lengthy answer to this thread but I've not got time as I'm going into work early to help with staff shortages in my ward. Oh and I won't get paid for it. I may get time back if they ever have enough staff to enable it. Why don't you look for another job then? You still haven't commented about the fact that not everyone wants to join in your race to the bottom. You make your bed, then you have to lie in it. As my old mum used to say. "Nurses make other peoples beds for them to lay in...well HCAs make the bed usually. | |||
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"Hmmm.. I don't know where to start replying to this comment. How do you know they don't like looking after patients? Are you on the same Daily Mail/Government spouting rubbish about these daily for the past few years? And you probably think GPs and Hospital Doctors are money grabbing people who never cares for their patients nor want the best for the patients? Okay, I claim I've got an interest in here as I am a medic. Do you even realise how stretched the NHS is at the moment? If you know the understaffing with the nurses, the stress the nurses are under - I bet you wouldn't be saying these things. How do you not expect a nurse to be tired, when there's only 2 or 3 on a shift, to care for 30 patients. How safe can that be? Can you imagine those 2-3 nurses running after one patient after the other non-stop? It's not just the medications to be given on time, it's also the bed pans to clear, the IV drips to be set up, bringing a patient back from theatre, checking neuroobservations hourly - how on earth is someone not to feel burnt out? And what do you expect when as expected, there will be gaps in the shifts, and you're being told "no, you won't get paid, you just take back time off in lieu" - When does that make sense when in the first place, you're so shortstaffed that you can't get time off in lieu? Please don't just listen to Jeremy Hunt, or even the NHS England - they've got their own agendas, as does Daily Mail. Just sit (if you can) with a nurse or a doctor - and if they can spend the time with you rather than having to run around keeping the NHS alive, they'll be able to tell you how dire the NHS is in today. When almost everybody shares the same stories, you will see that what the papers are saying and what Jeremy Hunt is saying is all utter rubbish.. " I think I love you | |||
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"what about all these people, usualy old people who are not even given a drink of water and left to lie in their own piss and shit, by these so called caring nurses? I guess there are a lot of nurses who are swingers going by the remarks on here. "Because there are 28 other patients laying in their own piss and shit and only one nurse to do it all Who do you pick first? | |||
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"I soon want to give a lengthy answer to this thread but I've not got time as I'm going into work early to help with staff shortages in my ward. Oh and I won't get paid for it. I may get time back if they ever have enough staff to enable it. Why don't you look for another job then? You still haven't commented about the fact that not everyone wants to join in your race to the bottom. You make your bed, then you have to lie in it. As my old mum used to say. "So nobody should ever expect their pay or conditions to improve or at least keep up with inflation? Have you ANY idea about employment law, rights or the struggles people went through and still go through to keep them. You belong in a satanic mill along with your barefooted children. No your place!!! | |||
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"Hmmm.. I don't know where to start replying to this comment. How do you know they don't like looking after patients? Are you on the same Daily Mail/Government spouting rubbish about these daily for the past few years? And you probably think GPs and Hospital Doctors are money grabbing people who never cares for their patients nor want the best for the patients? Okay, I claim I've got an interest in here as I am a medic. Do you even realise how stretched the NHS is at the moment? If you know the understaffing with the nurses, the stress the nurses are under - I bet you wouldn't be saying these things. How do you not expect a nurse to be tired, when there's only 2 or 3 on a shift, to care for 30 patients. How safe can that be? Can you imagine those 2-3 nurses running after one patient after the other non-stop? It's not just the medications to be given on time, it's also the bed pans to clear, the IV drips to be set up, bringing a patient back from theatre, checking neuroobservations hourly - how on earth is someone not to feel burnt out? And what do you expect when as expected, there will be gaps in the shifts, and you're being told "no, you won't get paid, you just take back time off in lieu" - When does that make sense when in the first place, you're so shortstaffed that you can't get time off in lieu? Please don't just listen to Jeremy Hunt, or even the NHS England - they've got their own agendas, as does Daily Mail. Just sit (if you can) with a nurse or a doctor - and if they can spend the time with you rather than having to run around keeping the NHS alive, they'll be able to tell you how dire the NHS is in today. When almost everybody shares the same stories, you will see that what the papers are saying and what Jeremy Hunt is saying is all utter rubbish.. " | |||
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"The NHS has a budget and all staff are paid out of that budget, so there are only so many choices. We as tax payers must pay more tax so the NHS budget can be increased! or pay them the 1% from the existing budget and either reduce staff numbers or services offered to pay for the wage increase. Less so called managers = more nurses" So nurses don't need managing? From the waste i see in the NHS think they might want ..some new managers anyway! The problem is the NHS is underfunded (or poorly managed), but who is willing to ask the electorate for more tax revenue? ..and remember that those people who are paying to go private, are paying into the NHS but getting nothing out! | |||
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"So pray tell us oh wise one, how would you improve your lot if you were a nurse? Don't tell me you would move jobs or seek promotion because realistically and practically that just doesn't work for everyone. " But that's true for everyone, a guy in a factory earning less than a Nurse has the same issue..but the days of factory worker strikes are well gone (Thank God) | |||
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"So pray tell us oh wise one, how would you improve your lot if you were a nurse? Don't tell me you would move jobs or seek promotion because realistically and practically that just doesn't work for everyone. But that's true for everyone, a guy in a factory earning less than a Nurse has the same issue..but the days of factory worker strikes are well gone (Thank God)" Only because union powers have been slowly eroded and memberships have dwindled. If your not prepared to stick together and fight as one, then don't be suprised when your left with fuck all but the gratitude of having a job in the first place. Don't be so quick to drag everyone else down because you never thought to protect yourselves. Tesco won't protect you. | |||
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"I've not read the whole thread but just want to say the majority of us nurses are not striking. no one were I work would even consider it, I didn't go into this for the money, I knew it was crap pay and hrs. It's the newer younger degree level nurses that you find are the ones that want to strike. Bring back the diploma and train from nursing assistant through to nurse so you have people that actually understand what the job entails and you won't get this crap. " Interesting post. | |||
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"I've not read the whole thread but just want to say the majority of us nurses are not striking. no one were I work would even consider it, I didn't go into this for the money, I knew it was crap pay and hrs. It's the newer younger degree level nurses that you find are the ones that want to strike. Bring back the diploma and train from nursing assistant through to nurse so you have people that actually understand what the job entails and you won't get this crap. " Eh?? You do realise thats because its the newer nurses who are affected by this as they arent getting their 15 wage rise aswell as their annual increment(upto 5 years) which should be part of their salary? It has absolutely nothing to do with which qualification they have. make no mistake if this was happening years ago that you talk of staff would still be striking over it. | |||
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"I've not read the whole thread but just want to say the majority of us nurses are not striking. no one were I work would even consider it, I didn't go into this for the money, I knew it was crap pay and hrs. It's the newer younger degree level nurses that you find are the ones that want to strike. Bring back the diploma and train from nursing assistant through to nurse so you have people that actually understand what the job entails and you won't get this crap. Interesting post. "So are you suggesting the staff who are on strike should pay there bills etc with breadcrumbs? I am sure you are well aware that staff DO NOT WANT TO STRIKE. They feel they have NO choice though. | |||
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"Hmmm.. I don't know where to start replying to this comment. How do you know they don't like looking after patients? Are you on the same Daily Mail/Government spouting rubbish about these daily for the past few years? And you probably think GPs and Hospital Doctors are money grabbing people who never cares for their patients nor want the best for the patients? Okay, I claim I've got an interest in here as I am a medic. Do you even realise how stretched the NHS is at the moment? If you know the understaffing with the nurses, the stress the nurses are under - I bet you wouldn't be saying these things. How do you not expect a nurse to be tired, when there's only 2 or 3 on a shift, to care for 30 patients. How safe can that be? Can you imagine those 2-3 nurses running after one patient after the other non-stop? It's not just the medications to be given on time, it's also the bed pans to clear, the IV drips to be set up, bringing a patient back from theatre, checking neuroobservations hourly - how on earth is someone not to feel burnt out? And what do you expect when as expected, there will be gaps in the shifts, and you're being told "no, you won't get paid, you just take back time off in lieu" - When does that make sense when in the first place, you're so shortstaffed that you can't get time off in lieu? Please don't just listen to Jeremy Hunt, or even the NHS England - they've got their own agendas, as does Daily Mail. Just sit (if you can) with a nurse or a doctor - and if they can spend the time with you rather than having to run around keeping the NHS alive, they'll be able to tell you how dire the NHS is in today. When almost everybody shares the same stories, you will see that what the papers are saying and what Jeremy Hunt is saying is all utter rubbish.. " Well said and extremely valid and true points. I'm a professional live in carer and spent two weeks with my client during the day by his hospital bed. I saw things that the average person does not see. I saw nurses, doctors, other professional medical staff and cleaners worked to the max. There's a serious problem going down as expressed in the above thread. People who have no first hand experience with any kind of caring vocation should keep very quiet. | |||
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"It's galling how our government can't afford to give a pay rise to our public sector workers after pleading broke, but suddenly find enough money to launch military strikes overseas..." Here hear!!! | |||
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"I've not read the whole thread but just want to say the majority of us nurses are not striking. no one were I work would even consider it, I didn't go into this for the money, I knew it was crap pay and hrs. It's the newer younger degree level nurses that you find are the ones that want to strike. Bring back the diploma and train from nursing assistant through to nurse so you have people that actually understand what the job entails and you won't get this crap. Eh?? You do realise thats because its the newer nurses who are affected by this as they arent getting their 15 wage rise aswell as their annual increment(upto 5 years) which should be part of their salary? It has absolutely nothing to do with which qualification they have. make no mistake if this was happening years ago that you talk of staff would still be striking over it." Edited to add that the staff I seen on the news on picket line certainly werent new or young | |||
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"I've not read the whole thread but just want to say the majority of us nurses are not striking. no one were I work would even consider it, I didn't go into this for the money, I knew it was crap pay and hrs. It's the newer younger degree level nurses that you find are the ones that want to strike. Bring back the diploma and train from nursing assistant through to nurse so you have people that actually understand what the job entails and you won't get this crap. " But isn't the government mantra you get who you pay for? It seems okay for banking and MPs pay? | |||
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"Only thing that annoys me is that in some hospital agency nurses get paid more than the hospital employed nurses for doing the same job. After being in hospital on many occasions I have to say those nurses work bloody hard for their wage, when you think of the responsibility they have got in their day to day job. I have no idea how much they are on (it is none of my business either), but in my eyes it is never enough. Good on them for striking." Agency staff are hardly used anymore. Staff are supplied by the inhouse agency and do get paid slightly more due to there ability to fill in at very short notice etc. ] | |||
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"So pray tell us oh wise one, how would you improve your lot if you were a nurse? Don't tell me you would move jobs or seek promotion because realistically and practically that just doesn't work for everyone. But that's true for everyone, a guy in a factory earning less than a Nurse has the same issue..but the days of factory worker strikes are well gone (Thank God) Only because union powers have been slowly eroded and memberships have dwindled. If your not prepared to stick together and fight as one, then don't be suprised when your left with fuck all but the gratitude of having a job in the first place. Don't be so quick to drag everyone else down because you never thought to protect yourselves. Tesco won't protect you." Well put too many moan and do fuck all about it. | |||
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"Hmmm.. I don't know where to start replying to this comment. How do you know they don't like looking after patients? Are you on the same Daily Mail/Government spouting rubbish about these daily for the past few years? And you probably think GPs and Hospital Doctors are money grabbing people who never cares for their patients nor want the best for the patients? Okay, I claim I've got an interest in here as I am a medic. Do you even realise how stretched the NHS is at the moment? If you know the understaffing with the nurses, the stress the nurses are under - I bet you wouldn't be saying these things. How do you not expect a nurse to be tired, when there's only 2 or 3 on a shift, to care for 30 patients. How safe can that be? Can you imagine those 2-3 nurses running after one patient after the other non-stop? It's not just the medications to be given on time, it's also the bed pans to clear, the IV drips to be set up, bringing a patient back from theatre, checking neuroobservations hourly - how on earth is someone not to feel burnt out? And what do you expect when as expected, there will be gaps in the shifts, and you're being told "no, you won't get paid, you just take back time off in lieu" - When does that make sense when in the first place, you're so shortstaffed that you can't get time off in lieu? Please don't just listen to Jeremy Hunt, or even the NHS England - they've got their own agendas, as does Daily Mail. Just sit (if you can) with a nurse or a doctor - and if they can spend the time with you rather than having to run around keeping the NHS alive, they'll be able to tell you how dire the NHS is in today. When almost everybody shares the same stories, you will see that what the papers are saying and what Jeremy Hunt is saying is all utter rubbish.. " Absolutely spot on | |||
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" Do you even realise how stretched the NHS is at the moment? If you know the understaffing with the nurses, the stress the nurses are under - I bet you wouldn't be saying these things. How do you not expect a nurse to be tired, when there's only 2 or 3 on a shift, to care for 30 patients. How safe can that be? Can you imagine those 2-3 nurses running after one patient after the other non-stop? It's not just the medications to be given on time, it's also the bed pans to clear, the IV drips to be set up, bringing a patient back from theatre, checking neuroobservations hourly - how on earth is someone not to feel burnt out? And what do you expect when as expected, there will be gaps in the shifts, and you're being told "no, you won't get paid, you just take back time off in lieu" - When does that make sense when in the first place, you're so shortstaffed that you can't get time off in lieu? " Not quite sure I agree with the 'at the moment bit' - that scenario is exactly the same as it was 30 years ago when I was a Staff Nurse. I dont begrudge anyone a decent wage for doing a decent job and I hope that those that felt that they needed to strike today to make their point feel that it has been worth while - Im sure that they didnt take the decision lightly. But some of the posts on this thread about what its like in the NHS sound just like some of those posts you get about Fab or the forums - 'Things arent what they used to be' when in reality they are just the same as they have always been | |||
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"For me personally and Ok I might not know of the workings of a hospital, there are far too many pen pushers taking the NHS cash instead of getting more nurses in." So we do without pen pushers then?! These are the people who arrange your appointment, ensure things run smoothly and efficiently. Do you think the admin fairy waves a wand and it all just happens. Typical mentality of senior management is to cut corners by axing admin jobs and then they wonder why it all goes wrong. That's because the nurse who is trained to save lives is working out how to use the photocopier. A good admin system or pen pushers underpins everything! | |||
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"For me personally and Ok I might not know of the workings of a hospital, there are far too many pen pushers taking the NHS cash instead of getting more nurses in. So we do without pen pushers then?! These are the people who arrange your appointment, ensure things run smoothly and efficiently. Do you think the admin fairy waves a wand and it all just happens. Typical mentality of senior management is to cut corners by axing admin jobs and then they wonder why it all goes wrong. That's because the nurse who is trained to save lives is working out how to use the photocopier. A good admin system or pen pushers underpins everything! " I can never work out how to get our photocopier to print double sided
God it irks me! | |||
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"Just for curiosity what are nurses paid ?" Not nearly enough | |||
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"Just for curiosity what are nurses paid ?" I think you can find out online. | |||
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"Just for curiosity what are nurses paid ?" Depends on band, and how long they have been working as a qualified... Also it varies, greatly throughout.. The country. | |||
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"Good luck to the striking NHS staff today. If the trees in Port Cullis house cost £400.000 a year I am sure cuts in other areas can be found !!! . "Starting wage 21.5 k...pension paid up and doing a job they love....why are they moaning. Maybe if they went out on building sites with bad pay and conditions...no pension to top up the old age pension they will receive then they would not whinge so much...Teachers are the same they have had their uni fees paid for by the tax payer as nurses are trained at tax payers expense yet they still want more of the pot and expect the real hard working people to pay for it...guess what folks ...the pots fucking empty ,this is a fact ,its been empty and weve been suffering for it for years now!!...just my 2 cents | |||
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"At least the likes of nurses, paramedics and the fire service can strike unlike the police who can't and they are in the same position as the rest. It's sick that MPs and footballers get paid so much for what? " Entertainment industry....football and the players worth every penny,why stop at football..Tiger woods obscenely rich for smacking a ball around with a metal stick..oh American basketball players in fact most american football players...tennis players,they get the money because they entertain the masses and if they did not get it it would go into the pockets of the owners  | |||
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"Good luck to the striking NHS staff today. If the trees in Port Cullis house cost £400.000 a year I am sure cuts in other areas can be found !!! . Starting wage 21.5 k...pension paid up and doing a job they love....why are they moaning.
Maybe if they went out on building sites with bad pay and conditions...no pension to top up the old age pension they will receive then they would not whinge so much...Teachers are the same they have had their uni fees paid for by the tax payer as nurses are trained at tax payers expense yet they still want more of the pot and expect the real hard working people to pay for it...guess what folks ...the pots fucking empty ,this is a fact ,its been empty and weve been suffering for it for years now!!...just my 2 cents"Teachers do not get their uni fees paid. | |||
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"As a nurse u make life and death choices u deal with people at lowest points in there life so I think nurses should have pay rise I know how hard the work long shift and hardly a break to eat " Why would a nurse make life and death choices? | |||
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"At least the likes of nurses, paramedics and the fire service can strike unlike the police who can't and they are in the same position as the rest. It's sick that MPs and footballers get paid so much for what? Entertainment industry....football and the players worth every penny,why stop at football..Tiger woods obscenely rich for smacking a ball around with a metal stick..oh American basketball players in fact most american football players...tennis players,they get the money because they entertain the masses and if they did not get it it would go into the pockets of the owners "Why bring America players in to this? Yes I do think all sports stars get paid far to much but I was just making a point how different the pay is. So justifying that these sports stars give us entreatment is more important than the nurses looking after the sick? | |||
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"Good luck to the striking NHS staff today. If the trees in Port Cullis house cost £400.000 a year I am sure cuts in other areas can be found !!! . Starting wage 21.5 k...pension paid up and doing a job they love....why are they moaning.
Maybe if they went out on building sites with bad pay and conditions...no pension to top up the old age pension they will receive then they would not whinge so much...Teachers are the same they have had their uni fees paid for by the tax payer as nurses are trained at tax payers expense yet they still want more of the pot and expect the real hard working people to pay for it...guess what folks ...the pots fucking empty ,this is a fact ,its been empty and weve been suffering for it for years now!!...just my 2 cents
Teachers do not get their uni fees paid.
"Ones that are older than 25 did!!! | |||
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"At least the likes of nurses, paramedics and the fire service can strike unlike the police who can't and they are in the same position as the rest. It's sick that MPs and footballers get paid so much for what? Entertainment industry....football and the players worth every penny,why stop at football..Tiger woods obscenely rich for smacking a ball around with a metal stick..oh American basketball players in fact most american football players...tennis players,they get the money because they entertain the masses and if they did not get it it would go into the pockets of the owners
Why bring America players in to this? Yes I do think all sports stars get paid far to much but I was just making a point how different the pay is. So justifying that these sports stars give us entreatment is more important than the nurses looking after the sick?"There are millions of nurses,why compare them to talented sportsmen | |||
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"At the risk of appearing controversial and perhaps unpopular, I am afraid that, no matter how much I fully support and admire those that work in our NHS, not to mention our emergency services, I can not offer my support to those choosing to strike today. It is a rather unfortunate fact that the majority of public sector workers are now having to endure what many in the Private Sector have had to put up with for years. For example, the last company I worked for initiated a pay freeze over ten years ago. The only real difference being that employees did not have the luxury of being able to strike. The companies attitude was simple 'if you don't like it, go find another job' We also have to consider that ALL public sector workers are paid out of revenue generated through taxation. They bring no money into the economy. While I agree that all public sector workers pay income tax, you have to consider that this is simply a matter of putting money back into the pot from which they have taken. It is in fact only the Private Sector that generates revenue for the government. Just to reiterate, that I have huge respect for our nurses etc and I agree that they work hard and often long hours. I think that the greatest problem with our NHS though is mis-management. If the NHS was run more efficiently (and I'm not talking about cutting back on Doctors and Nurses - but more better management) then perhaps there would be more money available to provide NHS staff with a better wage." So because YOU get a shit deal, everyone else gets one? Do yourself a favour and join a union. | |||
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"Good luck to the striking NHS staff today. If the trees in Port Cullis house cost £400.000 a year I am sure cuts in other areas can be found !!! . Starting wage 21.5 k...pension paid up and doing a job they love....why are they moaning.
Maybe if they went out on building sites with bad pay and conditions...no pension to top up the old age pension they will receive then they would not whinge so much...Teachers are the same they have had their uni fees paid for by the tax payer as nurses are trained at tax payers expense yet they still want more of the pot and expect the real hard working people to pay for it...guess what folks ...the pots fucking empty ,this is a fact ,its been empty and weve been suffering for it for years now!!...just my 2 cents
Teachers do not get their uni fees paid.
Ones that are older than 25 did!!!"Err....how do you come that conclusion?Three of my friends in their early forties and all had student loans. | |||
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"Good luck to the striking NHS staff today. If the trees in Port Cullis house cost £400.000 a year I am sure cuts in other areas can be found !!! . Starting wage 21.5 k...pension paid up and doing a job they love....why are they moaning.
Maybe if they went out on building sites with bad pay and conditions...no pension to top up the old age pension they will receive then they would not whinge so much...Teachers are the same they have had their uni fees paid for by the tax payer as nurses are trained at tax payers expense yet they still want more of the pot and expect the real hard working people to pay for it...guess what folks ...the pots fucking empty ,this is a fact ,its been empty and weve been suffering for it for years now!!...just my 2 cents"Yawn.....join a union then. Stop letting yourself get shafted. By the way, the "pot" is far from empty. Look how much we waste on the eu, computer systems that fail to work, h2s, foreign aid, white elephant aircraft carriers....... | |||
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"So because YOU get a shit deal, everyone else gets one? Do yourself a favour and join a union." Two reasons why that won't work. 1. I despise trade unions 2. I am now self-employed | |||
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"So because YOU get a shit deal, everyone else gets one? Do yourself a favour and join a union. Two reasons why that won't work. 1. I despise trade unions 2. I am now self-employed" If your not happy with your employment status then ÷ 1. Sell your business. 2. Get a job such as nurse, fireman, miner etc. 3. Realise why unions exist. | |||
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"I don't believe in the tory maxim of divide and concour - pitching private against public sector workers, young against old, rich against poor. Why should it be a race to the bottom? Shouldn't you receive a fair days pay for working. So nurses don't work on building sites. So fucking what!!! They get their hands dirty with blood. Blood of children, the elderly, relatives and loved ones whose lives they save. When the NHS is broken up and we have to pay for private health care like America pray you aren't sick or old. Just my 2 cents!" Here Here..... Even the Tories are admitting their attempt to break the NHS is bad ....in the UK many of us drive German cars, buy German white goods, Buy from German supermarkets...if only we'd accept German social democratic politics and understand that the way they have got so well up is the fact that the bosses and the unions are working on the same company boards to make the companies work...divide and rule is outdated like the imperialistic attitudes in the UK establishment...if only the 64% of non voting sofa sitters.....went and voted.. | |||
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"If your not happy with your employment status then ÷ 1. Sell your business. 2. Get a job such as nurse, fireman, miner etc. 3. Realise why unions exist." Who said I wasn't happy with my employment status? Wasn't me. And I have every right to despise trade unions if I wish to, thank you very much. I know perfectly well why they exist. It's just a shame that they are run by corrupt militants. With all due respect, I haven't begun to assume that I can tell you how to run your life have I? Please don't assume you have the right to tell me how to run mine. | |||
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"Its sad but the only conclusion I end up with is that if NHS staff are striking leaving patients without care then their priority is on their bank balance not patient care so its not really the caring profession. " First of all the wards were still covered throughout the strike. Second as much as staff care about what they're doing that doesn't pay the bills. Don't think people realise just how long NHS staff have went without a pay rise even near the rate of inflation. Enoughs enough and fair play to them. The government have manipulated their good nature for long enough | |||
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"Nurses have always complained about their pay so why do they become nurses then? of course everyone has the right to strike but why moan about mps getting more money the same as lots of other people who get paid lots of money for doing easy jobs where they do very little work, no one ever said life is fair did they, so no point in being envious. Because nursing is generally female dominated and started off more lowly paid. Now the gender gap in pay is getting bigger. Also why should not any worker be paid a fair wage. Nursing is now a degree led profession and compared to other degree led occupations is appallingly paid. Is that good enough reason? ! .
Why not become a doctor then, they get paid more. Also as a lot of nurses are married it doesn't matter so much because their husbands are bringing in a wage as well. There are lots of other jobs they could do instead if they wanted too.
Yes because nurses are entirely non essential.
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"If your not happy with your employment status then ÷ 1. Sell your business. 2. Get a job such as nurse, fireman, miner etc. 3. Realise why unions exist. Who said I wasn't happy with my employment status? Wasn't me. And I have every right to despise trade unions if I wish to, thank you very much. I know perfectly well why they exist. It's just a shame that they are run by corrupt militants. With all due respect, I haven't begun to assume that I can tell you how to run your life have I? Please don't assume you have the right to tell me how to run mine." It was you harping on about your pay freeze in the private sector etc. I am not telling you how to run your life. But don't claim unions are a bad thing when the sole reason for their existence is to represent the workers and help the workers. You were the one that moaned about his lot in the private sector. I merely offered a solution. | |||
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"I have a lot of sympathy but , if we're talking one per cent , they will probably lose more by striking even if they won !" Which is surely a sign that it's about more than just money. | |||
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"Look up the agenda for change pay scale...given that newly qualifiers......who are so badly trained they need mentoring.....go in at a band 5 ....£21478 they don't do that badly.....especially when a good majority can't be arsed with looking after their patients" A good majority?? Really??? Ooft | |||
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"single nurses should get more money because they have to pay for everything themselves, makes sense to me." I'm an engineer and I'm single. Should I get more than the guys at work who're married? What cobblers lol. | |||
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"Look up the agenda for change pay scale...given that newly qualifiers......who are so badly trained they need mentoring.....go in at a band 5 ....£21478 they don't do that badly.....especially when a good majority can't be arsed with looking after their patients" All professionals should have mentoring. Its called good practice. *Yawn*...... | |||
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"It was you harping on about your pay freeze in the private sector etc. I am not telling you how to run your life. But don't claim unions are a bad thing when the sole reason for their existence is to represent the workers and help the workers. You were the one that moaned about his lot in the private sector. I merely offered a solution." I think you misunderstood my original post. I was not actually moaning about my lot in the Private Sector, merely highlighting that many people have been suffering low to zero pay rises for years. Trade Unions are a good idea in principal, but ultimately they cause workers greater hardship in the long term. Let's take the motor industry for example. Senior management have to make big decisions in the interests of keeping the organisation competitive and profitable in order to ensure it's survival. Trade Union steps in demanding better deals for workers. Negotiations take place back and forth and yes, the workers get a better short term deal - then the company decides to close it's UK operations and manufacture it's products elsewhere. Who remembers the Oil Refinery up north fairly recently? Almost shut down because of Union demands. There's always two sides to every argument. There has even been recent debate about the minimum wage and how it's actually preventing employers from taking on more people. | |||
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"Its sad but the only conclusion I end up with is that if NHS staff are striking leaving patients without care then their priority is on their bank balance not patient care so its not really the caring profession. First of all the wards were still covered throughout the strike. Second as much as staff care about what they're doing that doesn't pay the bills. Don't think people realise just how long NHS staff have went without a pay rise even near the rate of inflation. Enoughs enough and fair play to them. The government have manipulated their good nature for long enough" The ward's are not covered by the people who are striking other staff have had to be drafted in, manipulated by the government? Sick days in the NHS are far higher than in other countries so maybe its others who manipulate and good nature? If you are not happy leave and go do something else or work in the private sector. But that's all other arguments the simple factor wages in the bank has been prioritised over patients. | |||
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"Not to mention they need to use "triage" to decide who gets priority, so they say they will get you a bed in 5 minutes once they have attended to a serious accedent, you already have someone ifront of you, then someone comes in say involved in a car accedent and someone else comes infront of you, if you do not have enough staff to deal with everything then you will end up bottom of the line with people constantly being moved in front of you depending on their neeeds in worst case" So should they not triage patients? Should the numpty who had gone in with a splinter in his thumb be seen before the car crash victim? C | |||
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"Its sad but the only conclusion I end up with is that if NHS staff are striking leaving patients without care then their priority is on their bank balance not patient care so its not really the caring profession. First of all the wards were still covered throughout the strike. Second as much as staff care about what they're doing that doesn't pay the bills. Don't think people realise just how long NHS staff have went without a pay rise even near the rate of inflation. Enoughs enough and fair play to them. The government have manipulated their good nature for long enough The ward's are not covered by the people who are striking other staff have had to be drafted in, manipulated by the government? Sick days in the NHS are far higher than in other countries so maybe its others who manipulate and good nature? If you are not happy leave and go do something else or work in the private sector. But that's all other arguments the simple factor wages in the bank has been prioritised over patients." Leave and go do something else? I didn't say I worked for NHS. Is it only NHS workers that are allowed to say they get a raw deal? | |||
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"Look up the agenda for change pay scale...given that newly qualifiers......who are so badly trained they need mentoring.....go in at a band 5 ....£21478 they don't do that badly.....especially when a good majority can't be arsed with looking after their patients All professionals should have mentoring. Its called good practice. *Yawn*...... "Good practice! Are you serious! On more than one occasion I have witnessed appalling care.....where staff have time to discuss their families/holidays/when their tea break wil be etc etc etc....but leave patients crying because they have wet the bed.... And we're people die because poorly trained staff cannot recognise sepsis......basic observations done, but ignored...if that's good practice then God help us. I would never, ever leave a relative of mine at their mercy again. If you stood up and recognised that your colleagues were lacking in basic compassion, then people would have more sympathy .....but I guess your too busy yawning at your irritating patient. | |||
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"Judging by some people's _iews of nurses on this thread, I hope next time they or someone close to them needs care and treatment from a nurse they get the type of care they deserve... "It's not just nurses. It's teachers, fireman and anyone else who want to stand up for themselves. For some reason they all get a hard time on here. It's like its a competition to tell everyone how shit off you are, and you don't do anything about it so why should anyone else have the cheek to. | |||
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"It was you harping on about your pay freeze in the private sector etc. I am not telling you how to run your life. But don't claim unions are a bad thing when the sole reason for their existence is to represent the workers and help the workers. You were the one that moaned about his lot in the private sector. I merely offered a solution. I think you misunderstood my original post. I was not actually moaning about my lot in the Private Sector, merely highlighting that many people have been suffering low to zero pay rises for years. Trade Unions are a good idea in principal, but ultimately they cause workers greater hardship in the long term. Let's take the motor industry for example. Senior management have to make big decisions in the interests of keeping the organisation competitive and profitable in order to ensure it's survival. Trade Union steps in demanding better deals for workers. Negotiations take place back and forth and yes, the workers get a better short term deal - then the company decides to close it's UK operations and manufacture it's products elsewhere. Who remembers the Oil Refinery up north fairly recently? Almost shut down because of Union demands. There's always two sides to every argument. There has even been recent debate about the minimum wage and how it's actually preventing employers from taking on more people." The same companies that move their production abroad, made obscenely high profits using virtual slave labour for the benefit of the shareholders, and now they are coming crawling back as the workmanship is not up to scratch. And guess what, the long line of unemployed people over here just begging to take a job at a wage that is officially lower than the official liveable wage, so YOU my friend can top up their wages in the form of benefit as their income is so low. Your being screwed from both ends. Do yourself a favour and don't listen to government mantras or "big businesses". They don't give a fuck. | |||
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"Judging by some people's _iews of nurses on this thread, I hope next time they or someone close to them needs care and treatment from a nurse they get the type of care they deserve...
It's not just nurses. It's teachers, fireman and anyone else who want to stand up for themselves. For some reason they all get a hard time on here. It's like its a competition to tell everyone how shit off you are, and you don't do anything about it so why should anyone else have the cheek to. "Theres a lot of hate been spewed recently on these forums over various topics Ive been around a long time and at the moment im shocked at the level of spite some people have inside them They should worry about their blood pressure,god forbid they end up having to be taken care of by a nurse because of it | |||
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"I think you have missed the point. The point was that if you do not have enough staff to deal with it, people end up waiting alot longer than they should, of course they should triage patients" And nobody who comes for help should be described as a numpty.....cos where do you draw the line and they then become worthy of your attention....? | |||
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"Judging by some people's _iews of nurses on this thread, I hope next time they or someone close to them needs care and treatment from a nurse they get the type of care they deserve... "I would have though a nurse would treat all equally no matter what their opinion is on a thread don't you think you are being a little over dramatic. | |||
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"I think you have missed the point. The point was that if you do not have enough staff to deal with it, people end up waiting alot longer than they should, of course they should triage patients And nobody who comes for help should be described as a numpty.....cos where do you draw the line and they then become worthy of your attention....?" Accident and Emergency. The clue is in the title. People turn up at A&E with totally inappropriate conditions everyday. GP/Walk in Centre would probably be more appropriate. Total numpties! | |||
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"I think you have missed the point. The point was that if you do not have enough staff to deal with it, people end up waiting alot longer than they should, of course they should triage patients And nobody who comes for help should be described as a numpty.....cos where do you draw the line and they then become worthy of your attention....? Accident and Emergency. The clue is in the title. People turn up at A&E with totally inappropriate conditions everyday. GP/Walk in Centre would probably be more appropriate. Total numpties!" I sure hope your not a nurse, your attitude is quite frankly appalling ...... Yes it's inappropriate, but that's a whole other issue and treating them like shit is not the answer | |||
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"Good luck to the striking NHS staff today. If the trees in Port Cullis house cost £400.000 a year I am sure cuts in other areas can be found !!! . Starting wage 21.5 k...pension paid up and doing a job they love....why are they moaning.
Maybe if they went out on building sites with bad pay and conditions...no pension to top up the old age pension they will receive then they would not whinge so much...Teachers are the same they have had their uni fees paid for by the tax payer as nurses are trained at tax payers expense yet they still want more of the pot and expect the real hard working people to pay for it...guess what folks ...the pots fucking empty ,this is a fact ,its been empty and weve been suffering for it for years now!!...just my 2 cents
Yawn.....join a union then. Stop letting yourself get shafted.
By the way, the "pot" is far from empty. Look how much we waste on the eu, computer systems that fail to work, h2s, foreign aid, white elephant aircraft carriers......."Who is getting shafted? Self employed tradesmen here so your drawn conclusion is way off the mark....The countries debt proves the pot is empty or have you not noticed or are you another that believes trident and the armed forces are not needed also with our aircraft carriers? | |||
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"So because YOU get a shit deal, everyone else gets one? Do yourself a favour and join a union. Two reasons why that won't work. 1. I despise trade unions 2. I am now self-employed" I took to self employment after the union done absolutely bugger all for 45 men and sold us down the river....never again would i encourage any individual to join a union as i had done from a young age,there are more builders with my _iew then there are pro union men...I know its off the subject and i must admit i do think nurses do a cracking job but i also believe they are adequately paid for that job with the pension they also receive at the end of the day | |||
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"Look up the agenda for change pay scale...given that newly qualifiers......who are so badly trained they need mentoring.....go in at a band 5 ....£21478 they don't do that badly.....especially when a good majority can't be arsed with looking after their patients All professionals should have mentoring. Its called good practice. *Yawn*......
Good practice! Are you serious!
On more than one occasion I have witnessed appalling care.....where staff have time to discuss their families/holidays/when their tea break wil be etc etc etc....but leave patients crying because they have wet the bed.... And we're people die because poorly trained staff cannot recognise sepsis......basic observations done, but ignored...if that's good practice then God help us.
I would never, ever leave a relative of mine at their mercy again.
If you stood up and recognised that your colleagues were lacking in basic compassion, then people would have more sympathy .....but I guess your too busy yawning at your irritating patient.
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"I think you have missed the point. The point was that if you do not have enough staff to deal with it, people end up waiting alot longer than they should, of course they should triage patients And nobody who comes for help should be described as a numpty.....cos where do you draw the line and they then become worthy of your attention....? Accident and Emergency. The clue is in the title. People turn up at A&E with totally inappropriate conditions everyday. GP/Walk in Centre would probably be more appropriate. Total numpties! I sure hope your not a nurse, your attitude is quite frankly appalling ...... Yes it's inappropriate, but that's a whole other issue and treating them like shit is not the answer" No I'm not a nurse (great of you to jump to conclusions). I'm a tax payer paying for the nhs like other hard working people and don't agree with it being abused by people who should know better. If that's an appalling attitude then so be it. My point of _iew - which I'm entitled to have. | |||
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"Nurses have always complained about their pay so why do they become nurses then? of course everyone has the right to strike but why moan about mps getting more money the same as lots of other people who get paid lots of money for doing easy jobs where they do very little work, no one ever said life is fair did they, so no point in being envious. Because nursing is generally female dominated and started off more lowly paid. Now the gender gap in pay is getting bigger. Also why should not any worker be paid a fair wage. Nursing is now a degree led profession and compared to other degree led occupations is appallingly paid. Is that good enough reason? ! .
Why not become a doctor then, they get paid more. Also as a lot of nurses are married it doesn't matter so much because their husbands are bringing in a wage as well. There are lots of other jobs they could do instead if they wanted too."Exactly what century do you live in? | |||
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"Most nurses, without question, do a great job, are they more deserving than other occupations..... No. " | |||
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"Judging by some people's _iews of nurses on this thread, I hope next time they or someone close to them needs care and treatment from a nurse they get the type of care they deserve...
I would have though a nurse would treat all equally no matter what their opinion is on a thread don't you think you are being a little over dramatic." | |||
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"Good luck to the striking NHS staff today. If the trees in Port Cullis house cost £400.000 a year I am sure cuts in other areas can be found !!! . Starting wage 21.5 k...pension paid up and doing a job they love....why are they moaning.
Maybe if they went out on building sites with bad pay and conditions...no pension to top up the old age pension they will receive then they would not whinge so much...Teachers are the same they have had their uni fees paid for by the tax payer as nurses are trained at tax payers expense yet they still want more of the pot and expect the real hard working people to pay for it...guess what folks ...the pots fucking empty ,this is a fact ,its been empty and weve been suffering for it for years now!!...just my 2 cents
Yawn.....join a union then. Stop letting yourself get shafted.
By the way, the "pot" is far from empty. Look how much we waste on the eu, computer systems that fail to work, h2s, foreign aid, white elephant aircraft carriers.......Who is getting shafted? Self employed tradesmen here so your drawn conclusion is way off the mark....The countries debt proves the pot is empty or have you not noticed or are you another that believes trident and the armed forces are not needed also with our aircraft carriers?"We are being shafted. We are the ones paying the tax. No we don,t need trident. No we don't need to pay billions to the eu, no we don't need h2s, no we don't need aircraft carriers. We waste hundreds of billions of pounds on useless shite. If the pot is empty, why are we still spending billions on this stuff? Priorities are fucked up. Why else are mps so scared of referendums? | |||
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"Good luck to the striking NHS staff today. If the trees in Port Cullis house cost £400.000 a year I am sure cuts in other areas can be found !!! . Starting wage 21.5 k...pension paid up and doing a job they love....why are they moaning.
Maybe if they went out on building sites with bad pay and conditions...no pension to top up the old age pension they will receive then they would not whinge so much...Teachers are the same they have had their uni fees paid for by the tax payer as nurses are trained at tax payers expense yet they still want more of the pot and expect the real hard working people to pay for it...guess what folks ...the pots fucking empty ,this is a fact ,its been empty and weve been suffering for it for years now!!...just my 2 cents
Yawn.....join a union then. Stop letting yourself get shafted.
By the way, the "pot" is far from empty. Look how much we waste on the eu, computer systems that fail to work, h2s, foreign aid, white elephant aircraft carriers.......Who is getting shafted? Self employed tradesmen here so your drawn conclusion is way off the mark....The countries debt proves the pot is empty or have you not noticed or are you another that believes trident and the armed forces are not needed also with our aircraft carriers?
We are being shafted. We are the ones paying the tax. No we don,t need trident. No we don't need to pay billions to the eu, no we don't need h2s, no we don't need aircraft carriers. We waste hundreds of billions of pounds on useless shite. If the pot is empty, why are we still spending billions on this stuff? Priorities are fucked up. Why else are mps so scared of referendums?"EU money paid for the vast overhaul of council properties in this country with the regeneration scheme which is still going on ,we also take from the EU pot and the country needs defence, were an island nation,so to not have ships would look a tad stupid. I recon most of the country would think this way in a referendum | |||
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"To address some of the comments on this thread: I could have studied medicine, I chose nursing. Many nurses have enough a levels to be a doctor. Nursing is different. Not a substitute for medicine for thickies. Many nurses/midwives/support staff are single or single parents. Oh and might be male. One of the best midwives I work with is male. Registration fees have increased. The cost of living has increased. I did not enter nursing, then midwifery, for the financial gains. Not unfair to expect a living wage surely? Patients/women come first. Poor care exists undeniably, this is something that is simply not explained away by saying all nurses are uncaring. Some are, vast majority do their best, working long shifts without breaks, unpaid overtime and at the compromise of a family and social life. The strike did not put patients safety at risk. It was to send a clear message to the government and management that we've had enough. Good will is running thin. Rant over" You do a brilliant job but remember ,the rest of the country has been in pay freeze mode for 10 years whilst everything has risen...without the benefits nurses get. Its not just the public sector that suffers but they are the only ones we here moan about their lot and go on strike. Can you think of a private sector strike in the last ten years or do they just bite their tongue and get on with it? | |||
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"Nurses have always complained about their pay so why do they become nurses then? of course everyone has the right to strike but why moan about mps getting more money the same as lots of other people who get paid lots of money for doing easy jobs where they do very little work, no one ever said life is fair did they, so no point in being envious." We become Nurses because we are passionate and driven to care. And thank God we do.But post-qualification reality shows us that the job we do is far more detailed, pressured, exhausting and committed than we could ever have imagined. So think again before you judge and criticise us for wanting the recognition we deserve. | |||
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"Nurses have always complained about their pay so why do they become nurses then? of course everyone has the right to strike but why moan about mps getting more money the same as lots of other people who get paid lots of money for doing easy jobs where they do very little work, no one ever said life is fair did they, so no point in being envious. We become Nurses because we are passionate and driven to care. And thank God we do.But post-qualification reality shows us that the job we do is far more detailed, pressured, exhausting and committed than we could ever have imagined. So think again before you judge and criticise us for wanting the recognition we deserve. " Well done you. | |||
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"To address some of the comments on this thread: I could have studied medicine, I chose nursing. Many nurses have enough a levels to be a doctor. Nursing is different. Not a substitute for medicine for thickies. Many nurses/midwives/support staff are single or single parents. Oh and might be male. One of the best midwives I work with is male. Registration fees have increased. The cost of living has increased. I did not enter nursing, then midwifery, for the financial gains. Not unfair to expect a living wage surely? Patients/women come first. Poor care exists undeniably, this is something that is simply not explained away by saying all nurses are uncaring. Some are, vast majority do their best, working long shifts without breaks, unpaid overtime and at the compromise of a family and social life. The strike did not put patients safety at risk. It was to send a clear message to the government and management that we've had enough. Good will is running thin. Rant overYou do a brilliant job but remember ,the rest of the country has been in pay freeze mode for 10 years whilst everything has risen...without the benefits nurses get. Its not just the public sector that suffers but they are the only ones we here moan about their lot and go on strike. Can you think of a private sector strike in the last ten years or do they just bite their tongue and get on with it?" Err care to enlighten us about the 'benefits' that nurses get? | |||
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"To address some of the comments on this thread: I could have studied medicine, I chose nursing. Many nurses have enough a levels to be a doctor. Nursing is different. Not a substitute for medicine for thickies. Many nurses/midwives/support staff are single or single parents. Oh and might be male. One of the best midwives I work with is male. Registration fees have increased. The cost of living has increased. I did not enter nursing, then midwifery, for the financial gains. Not unfair to expect a living wage surely? Patients/women come first. Poor care exists undeniably, this is something that is simply not explained away by saying all nurses are uncaring. Some are, vast majority do their best, working long shifts without breaks, unpaid overtime and at the compromise of a family and social life. The strike did not put patients safety at risk. It was to send a clear message to the government and management that we've had enough. Good will is running thin. Rant overYou do a brilliant job but remember ,the rest of the country has been in pay freeze mode for 10 years whilst everything has risen...without the benefits nurses get. Its not just the public sector that suffers but they are the only ones we here moan about their lot and go on strike. Can you think of a private sector strike in the last ten years or do they just bite their tongue and get on with it?" Bus drivers. Fuel tanker drivers. There's two for starters. Yes it is absolutely shit that many private sector workers have also had a pay freeze for 10 years. I'm sure many people would support them if they decided to strike to. I've said it further up already, but why does it have to be a 'them' and 'us' thing? | |||
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"To address some of the comments on this thread: I could have studied medicine, I chose nursing. Many nurses have enough a levels to be a doctor. Nursing is different. Not a substitute for medicine for thickies. Many nurses/midwives/support staff are single or single parents. Oh and might be male. One of the best midwives I work with is male. Registration fees have increased. The cost of living has increased. I did not enter nursing, then midwifery, for the financial gains. Not unfair to expect a living wage surely? Patients/women come first. Poor care exists undeniably, this is something that is simply not explained away by saying all nurses are uncaring. Some are, vast majority do their best, working long shifts without breaks, unpaid overtime and at the compromise of a family and social life. The strike did not put patients safety at risk. It was to send a clear message to the government and management that we've had enough. Good will is running thin. Rant overYou do a brilliant job but remember ,the rest of the country has been in pay freeze mode for 10 years whilst everything has risen...without the benefits nurses get. Its not just the public sector that suffers but they are the only ones we here moan about their lot and go on strike. Can you think of a private sector strike in the last ten years or do they just bite their tongue and get on with it? Err care to enlighten us about the 'benefits' that nurses get? "pension....Free training...guaranteed work | |||
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"To address some of the comments on this thread: I could have studied medicine, I chose nursing. Many nurses have enough a levels to be a doctor. Nursing is different. Not a substitute for medicine for thickies. Many nurses/midwives/support staff are single or single parents. Oh and might be male. One of the best midwives I work with is male. Registration fees have increased. The cost of living has increased. I did not enter nursing, then midwifery, for the financial gains. Not unfair to expect a living wage surely? Patients/women come first. Poor care exists undeniably, this is something that is simply not explained away by saying all nurses are uncaring. Some are, vast majority do their best, working long shifts without breaks, unpaid overtime and at the compromise of a family and social life. The strike did not put patients safety at risk. It was to send a clear message to the government and management that we've had enough. Good will is running thin. Rant overYou do a brilliant job but remember ,the rest of the country has been in pay freeze mode for 10 years whilst everything has risen...without the benefits nurses get. Its not just the public sector that suffers but they are the only ones we here moan about their lot and go on strike. Can you think of a private sector strike in the last ten years or do they just bite their tongue and get on with it? Err care to enlighten us about the 'benefits' that nurses get? "Upto 35 days holiday a year plus statutory days on top. A government pension worth 40% of your gross pay. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"To address some of the comments on this thread: I could have studied medicine, I chose nursing. Many nurses have enough a levels to be a doctor. Nursing is different. Not a substitute for medicine for thickies. Many nurses/midwives/support staff are single or single parents. Oh and might be male. One of the best midwives I work with is male. Registration fees have increased. The cost of living has increased. I did not enter nursing, then midwifery, for the financial gains. Not unfair to expect a living wage surely? Patients/women come first. Poor care exists undeniably, this is something that is simply not explained away by saying all nurses are uncaring. Some are, vast majority do their best, working long shifts without breaks, unpaid overtime and at the compromise of a family and social life. The strike did not put patients safety at risk. It was to send a clear message to the government and management that we've had enough. Good will is running thin. Rant overYou do a brilliant job but remember ,the rest of the country has been in pay freeze mode for 10 years whilst everything has risen...without the benefits nurses get. Its not just the public sector that suffers but they are the only ones we here moan about their lot and go on strike. Can you think of a private sector strike in the last ten years or do they just bite their tongue and get on with it? Bus drivers. Fuel tanker drivers. There's two for starters. Yes it is absolutely shit that many private sector workers have also had a pay freeze for 10 years. I'm sure many people would support them if they decided to strike to. I've said it further up already, but why does it have to be a 'them' and 'us' thing? " Its not a them or us thing its just a debate...im watching them on tv now shouting about wanting full pension.....dont we all?????????? | |||
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"To address some of the comments on this thread: I could have studied medicine, I chose nursing. Many nurses have enough a levels to be a doctor. Nursing is different. Not a substitute for medicine for thickies. Many nurses/midwives/support staff are single or single parents. Oh and might be male. One of the best midwives I work with is male. Registration fees have increased. The cost of living has increased. I did not enter nursing, then midwifery, for the financial gains. Not unfair to expect a living wage surely? Patients/women come first. Poor care exists undeniably, this is something that is simply not explained away by saying all nurses are uncaring. Some are, vast majority do their best, working long shifts without breaks, unpaid overtime and at the compromise of a family and social life. The strike did not put patients safety at risk. It was to send a clear message to the government and management that we've had enough. Good will is running thin. Rant overYou do a brilliant job but remember ,the rest of the country has been in pay freeze mode for 10 years whilst everything has risen...without the benefits nurses get. Its not just the public sector that suffers but they are the only ones we here moan about their lot and go on strike. Can you think of a private sector strike in the last ten years or do they just bite their tongue and get on with it? Err care to enlighten us about the 'benefits' that nurses get?
Upto 35 days holiday a year plus statutory days on top.
A government pension worth 40% of your gross pay.
"Do they also get full pay when off sick? | |||
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"If working in the public sector is so wonderful and cushy, why aren't you all doing it? Last time I was recruiting (professional posts rather than nursing or similar) we really struggled - because suitably qualified candidates are paid around 40% more in the private sector for comparable roles. " Theres the answer then.....but then again why dont the public sector nurses leave for the private sector then, a case of better the devil you know(big pension sick pay holidays...)they know where their bread is buttered | |||
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"I think you have missed the point. The point was that if you do not have enough staff to deal with it, people end up waiting alot longer than they should, of course they should triage patients And nobody who comes for help should be described as a numpty.....cos where do you draw the line and they then become worthy of your attention....? Accident and Emergency. The clue is in the title. People turn up at A&E with totally inappropriate conditions everyday. GP/Walk in Centre would probably be more appropriate. Total numpties! I sure hope your not a nurse, your attitude is quite frankly appalling ...... Yes it's inappropriate, but that's a whole other issue and treating them like shit is not the answer No I'm not a nurse (great of you to jump to conclusions). I'm a tax payer paying for the nhs like other hard working people and don't agree with it being abused by people who should know better. If that's an appalling attitude then so be it. My point of _iew - which I'm entitled to have. " Well I sincerely hope your not on the receiving end of this wonderful care your expecting to get. Because it isn't there. STafford is the tiny tip of the iceberg. There is cruelty and neglect going on in hospitals up and down this country. And I said hope your not a nurse....I didn't jump to any conclusion. | |||
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"I think you have missed the point. The point was that if you do not have enough staff to deal with it, people end up waiting alot longer than they should, of course they should triage patients And nobody who comes for help should be described as a numpty.....cos where do you draw the line and they then become worthy of your attention....? Accident and Emergency. The clue is in the title. People turn up at A&E with totally inappropriate conditions everyday. GP/Walk in Centre would probably be more appropriate. Total numpties! I sure hope your not a nurse, your attitude is quite frankly appalling ...... Yes it's inappropriate, but that's a whole other issue and treating them like shit is not the answer No I'm not a nurse (great of you to jump to conclusions). I'm a tax payer paying for the nhs like other hard working people and don't agree with it being abused by people who should know better. If that's an appalling attitude then so be it. My point of _iew - which I'm entitled to have. Well I sincerely hope your not on the receiving end of this wonderful care your expecting to get. Because it isn't there. STafford is the tiny tip of the iceberg. There is cruelty and neglect going on in hospitals up and down this country. And I said hope your not a nurse....I didn't jump to any conclusion." Well the NHS has saved me from two life threatening issues this year so I'll judge my care on first hand experience and not heresay from strangers. Sorry to disappoint but the care was first class. Again my opinion. | |||
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"To address some of the comments on this thread: I could have studied medicine, I chose nursing. Many nurses have enough a levels to be a doctor. Nursing is different. Not a substitute for medicine for thickies. Many nurses/midwives/support staff are single or single parents. Oh and might be male. One of the best midwives I work with is male. Registration fees have increased. The cost of living has increased. I did not enter nursing, then midwifery, for the financial gains. Not unfair to expect a living wage surely? Patients/women come first. Poor care exists undeniably, this is something that is simply not explained away by saying all nurses are uncaring. Some are, vast majority do their best, working long shifts without breaks, unpaid overtime and at the compromise of a family and social life. The strike did not put patients safety at risk. It was to send a clear message to the government and management that we've had enough. Good will is running thin. Rant overYou do a brilliant job but remember ,the rest of the country has been in pay freeze mode for 10 years whilst everything has risen...without the benefits nurses get. Its not just the public sector that suffers but they are the only ones we here moan about their lot and go on strike. Can you think of a private sector strike in the last ten years or do they just bite their tongue and get on with it? Err care to enlighten us about the 'benefits' that nurses get? pension....Free training...guaranteed work"Training is mandatory but fairly basic. Training for further qualifications also helps the NHS and also jumps in to our 'free time' too. As for pension, its basic too. Thats if you can afford to pay into it....Oh yes I do also get sick pay. The only time I got it was after I had been assaulted. . | |||
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"Look up the agenda for change pay scale...given that newly qualifiers......who are so badly trained they need mentoring.....go in at a band 5 ....£21478 they don't do that badly.....especially when a good majority can't be arsed with looking after their patients All professionals should have mentoring. Its called good practice. *Yawn*......
Good practice! Are you serious!
On more than one occasion I have witnessed appalling care.....where staff have time to discuss their families/holidays/when their tea break wil be etc etc etc....but leave patients crying because they have wet the bed.... And we're people die because poorly trained staff cannot recognise sepsis......basic observations done, but ignored...if that's good practice then God help us.
I would never, ever leave a relative of mine at their mercy again.
If you stood up and recognised that your colleagues were lacking in basic compassion, then people would have more sympathy .....but I guess your too busy yawning at your irritating patient.
"And this is why I feel people (on this thread and the public in general) are upset over the strike - because they have seen a loved one suffer, which is understandable - but to tar all with the same brush is wrong in my opinion - yes there are nurses/doctors/gp's/paramedics etc out there who seriously need to reevaluate their career choice due to attitude or lack of empathy and caring - but of the thousands of health professionals, these are a minority - and I personally think if the empathy and caring is waning, its time to seek another job role, as that attitude will transfer to patients no matter how much you try to hide it. For those who think patients/wards were abandoned during the strike, there was a work to rule system in place - so nobody was abandonded or left to die! Someone mentioned that's its about bank balance not caring, I'm sorry, but I don't think the love of the job pays the bills - but obviously the caring and empathy plays (or at least should play) a huge part The population is increasing and our NHS is shrinking - the nurse to patient ratio is appalling, resulting in 4+ hour waits in a&e, and that's without the ambulances coming in thick and fast, which waiting room patients don't see. I've seen an ambulance person collapse on duty due to workload, I've seen nurses keep a stiff upper lip caring for a dying patient and comforting relatives, then crumble and sob in the staff room, compose themselves and get back out to the ward to get on with the job in hand. People don't know if any of these medical staff have had a baby die in their arms, if they've tried everything possible to revive someone's mum or dad, dealt with a serious crash trauma where the person isn't recognisable or bonded with a terminal patient who has passed away, along with much more - so I ask anyone, could you do it? | |||
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