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Scotland ?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

What's your _iew ? I'm English and proud of it

I would like the Scots to vote yes

what's the _iew of other English people ?

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

The sooner they shut up about it the happier I'll be.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Being proud of your country has nothing to do with breaking up the United Kingdom

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I have no opinion on the voting but am hoping to here a yes more then no next month

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By *oxy_minxWoman over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen

Patriotism is a love of your country, nationalisation is a hatred of other countries, never a truer word, by George Orwell

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 07/09/14 18:56:41]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'd like to visit scotland some day

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Complete indifference here. Like some, sick of hearing the waffle...........it's being built up like some major sporting event by our media outlets

Roll on the end of it.

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By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

Yes for us here.

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By *rnyashellcplCouple over a year ago

Haydock

Iam not that interested I hope its sorted soon cos iam sick of the bbc sucking scotlands arse tellin the _iewer how nice it is n not puttin decent programs on

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I would like it to remain the way it is,I think its all rather sad

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Do you think the English ,Welsh , northern Irish should have a vote on this ? Thier are Four Country's in the UK and only one is having a say !

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By *oxy_minxWoman over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen

"I would like it to remain the way it is,I think its all rather sad

It is indeed!

And due to a status I had due to new figures released, woke up to some abusive messages....says a lot about the yes campaigners and peoples mentality, yes, I am a NO vote and not scared to say it, but a lot of people will not say it in public due to the hatred shown, it is all very very sad!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Not sure if we would see a difference ? Makes not a jot of difference in Nottingham!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I would like it to remain the way it is,I think its all rather sad

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

"I would like it to remain the way it is,I think its all rather sad

It is indeed!

Is it causing much tension up there?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I hope the Scottish people get what they want and that they accept whatever the outcome is.

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By *istressZoeTV/TS over a year ago

cheshire

It's a beautiful country x it could be self sufficient x the people are wonderful x their neighbours ain't so great tho!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I would like it to remain the way it is,I think its all rather sad

It is indeed!

Wow! If thats the case thank goodness for private voting and good for you for being brave enough to stand your ground despite the abuse

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By *oxy_minxWoman over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen

"I would like it to remain the way it is,I think its all rather sad

It is indeed!

Is it causing much tension up there?"

It is indeed...SOME yes campaigners have been using bullying tactics and abuse to anyone who dares to say they are a NO, so whilst SOME people are proud to have the Yes flag in their window? The No's will never dare to! I think that says a lot

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Im an anglo scot, mums from London dads from Aberdeen and I really couldnt care less just as long as I can continue to visit dads beautiful homeland whenever I please

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm english living in scotland and sick of it all, we've had campaigners in our town every weekend for a year now, tv, debates etc just overkill. I can see the importance for both sides but cant wait til 18th Sept.

People have fallen out who have been friends for years because of this.

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By *ratty_DamselWoman over a year ago

Greater London

If Scotland decided to go it alane, all those in England better get used to complete tory rule.

For that precise reason I hope Scotland says NO......

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By *ighland_RoseCouple over a year ago

Brigadoon

"I would like it to remain the way it is,I think its all rather sad

It is indeed!

Is it causing much tension up there?

I think you'll find that SOME No campaigners are abusive and violent, a Yes shop was set on fire in Glasgow last week. Arseholes aren't confined to just one political persuasion.

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By *oxy_minxWoman over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen

"I would like it to remain the way it is,I think its all rather sad

It is indeed!

Is it causing much tension up there?

I think you'll find that SOME No campaigners are abusive and violent, a Yes shop was set on fire in Glasgow last week. Arseholes aren't confined to just one political persuasion."

I never said they were....and I can't comment on the above as I don't know anything about it, I can only comment on what has been said to me on a first hand basis

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

"I would like it to remain the way it is,I think its all rather sad

It is indeed!

Is it causing much tension up there?

I think you'll find that SOME No campaigners are abusive and violent, a Yes shop was set on fire in Glasgow last week. Arseholes aren't confined to just one political persuasion."

Was it set on fire because it was a yes shop? I take it the people who set it alight have been caught and said that was the motive?

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

I am hugely proud to be Scottish, I love being British and I spent most of my working life in England.

I don't have an anti England bone in this Scottish body.

it's a No from me.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Voting NO on the 18th

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It's a beautiful country x it could be self sufficient x the people are wonderful x their neighbours ain't so great tho!"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I would like it to remain the way it is,I think its all rather sad

It is indeed!

Is it causing much tension up there?

I think you'll find that SOME No campaigners are abusive and violent, a Yes shop was set on fire in Glasgow last week. Arseholes aren't confined to just one political persuasion."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Being proud of your country has nothing to do with breaking up the United Kingdom"

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By *ighland_RoseCouple over a year ago

Brigadoon

Deciding whether or not to become independent has nothing to do with patriotism or nationalism. It's not about being Scottish and proud of it, or not liking England and the English.

It's about choosing what you believe is best for the country in a political and economical sense. It's about democracy, and rights, and choices. There are so many things to consider, but pride isn't one of them.

I am not Scottish, I wasn't born here, but I've lived here for 20 years and I like this country. Because I like this country, and most of the people in it, I want to do what I believe is best for it. There are things that I probably won't like if Scotland becomes independent, things that will cost me financially, but these are personal things and I won't allow them to sway my vote.

I've done my research and I'll vote for what I believe is the best for Scotland.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

I'd rather keep the Jocks. We've not done too badly together and I'm quite fond of the map the way it is.

However, I daresay there are plenty of builders in Northumbria and Cumberland just itching to put in a quote for a big repointing job....

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

The very sad thing is that it looks like it is going to be a close call with getting on for 50% not wanting the outcome that they are going to have to live with.

I reckon that it will be a yes vote and that a large number of the no voters will subsequently take a second vote with their feet. The other outcome being a close no vote will be even worse with belligerent Nationalists demanding a re-count or another referendum in a year, two years, ten years or whenever.

I think that thie uncertainty brought about by a close vote either way will be very bad for everyone.

I do actually understand the Scottish sentiment to leave the UK, albeit I don't agree with it. There is a part of the English psyche that has remained since the days of empire building.. A feeling that others can't do without us and that we control others and not the other way around. This manifests itself in the way we treat Scots who want to row their own boat and it manifests itself in the way we _iew our position in Europe.

I do wonder what will happen if Scotland votes to leave the UK and remain part of the EU and rUK then votes to leave the EU. I am sure that we English will find it difficult to understand why the Scots would not want to be governed by Westminster but would be happy to be governed by Brussels... C'est la vie.

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By *oxy_minxWoman over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen

"The very sad thing is that it looks like it is going to be a close call with getting on for 50% not wanting the outcome that they are going to have to live with.

I think that thie uncertainty brought about by a close vote either way will be very bad for everyone.

Brilliant!

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By *owayjose8Man over a year ago

dundee

You can all have your say down in England but what you need to remember is our country was taken over violently with thousands killed.and before that we had our own country and it was ran fine for thousands of years.freedom

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By *othingButCocoChanelWoman over a year ago

Glasgow

"The sooner they shut up about it the happier I'll be."

How dare people talk about one of the buggest decisions they will make

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

"You can all have your say down in England but what you need to remember is our country was taken over violently with thousands killed.and before that we had our own country and it was ran fine for thousands of years.freedom "

Not the most accurate précis ever but hey ho.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As a Scot living in England, i hope its a resounding NO! And IF the NO campaign win, how long will it be before Alex Salmond starts talking about Scottish Independence again.

I, personally think that Scotland will be worst off Independent :-/

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

Taken over violently? Thousands killed?

That's simply not true.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I am one of those that actually dont give a hoot how it goes.

If its a YES, then Westminster will do everything in its power to make it a bitter divorce (imho)

If its a NO, then its a green light to stick the boot in and change their minds about devolution.

Heads Scotland lose.

Tails Scotland lose.

Thats the bit no bugger wants to talk about.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

You've been invaded by the Romans, the Irish (Scots of Dal Riata) invaded?, the Northumbrians, the Norse, the Normans and then the English.

We've been invaded by the Romans, the Irish (mostly Wales and Cumbria), the Picts, the Angles, Saxons, Jutes and a few Swabians, the Danes, the Norse, the Scots (Cumbria was very debatable for a while), the Normans, the French (against King John, but we don't like to talk about it) and the Scots.

The border was a bit of a free for all for hundreds of years. I don't think either England or Scotland have much to claim regarding of being invaded.

Apologies to any tribe, kingdom or nation who's had a crack that I've left out.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Not all scottish people want independence

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By *oxy_minxWoman over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen

You've been invaded by the Romans, the Irish (Scots of Dal Riata) invaded?, the Northumbrians, the Norse, the Normans and then the English.

The border was a bit of a free for all for hundreds of years. I don't think either England or Scotland have much to claim regarding of being invaded.

Apologies to any tribe, kingdom or nation who's had a crack that I've left out.

Now Tina! Don't put too many facts in one post! You'll just confuse the poor

buggers

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By *owayjose8Man over a year ago

dundee

That's true but as of todays reckoning most of us do .Scotland is on the move for freedom

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"That's true but as of todays reckoning most of us do .Scotland is on the move for freedom "

From who? and from what? Personally I think this is going to end in a total clusterfuck.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Not sure if we would see a difference ? Makes not a jot of difference in Nottingham!!"
Most

Likely the same here in derby but yes I still find it sad from a historical point of _iew.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I mean when I looked into it myself, and asked the few Scots I know the answer that jumped out at me was it's a huge, and I mean FUCKING HUGE risk but little real, solid, tangible reward.

Short term financial gain - then what?

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By *owayjose8Man over a year ago

dundee

From who.the English.from what.the cluster fuck torrie government

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By *irtyGirlWoman over a year ago

Edinburgh

"The sooner they shut up about it the happier I'll be."

This this this!!!

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

"From who.the English.from what.the cluster fuck torrie government "

But I thought this vote wasn't about 'the English' ?

Nice to see at least one Yes voter showing some nice sentiments..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Deciding whether or not to become independent has nothing to do with patriotism or nationalism. It's not about being Scottish and proud of it, or not liking England and the English.

I've done my research and I'll vote for what I believe is the best for Scotland."

I lived in England for years when I was younger, have nothing against anyone or any country but I do think Scotland deserves to get the government it votes for & at the moment that doesn't happen.

Not sure what will happen but certainly don't think anyone will or should be expected to "shut up" about it any time soon.

Biggest decision in years, I would hope if the same was happening in England people would be talking about it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"From who.the English.from what.the cluster fuck torrie government "

From the English? - we recently had a Scottish PM,

And personally I think the 3 previous Labour Governments were terrible - in fact TB should be in the Haugh for war crimes -but that's the way it is in the real world.

But really, honestly is that the best reason you can give?

As a nation (UK) it's certainly not all roses but Jesus it's not that bad compared to lots of places.

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By *owayjose8Man over a year ago

dundee

Its about the English when we vote a labour government and England vote in a conservative party

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

No one ever really gets the political system or party they want - at least we can vote them out.

I love Scotland and the people, I was considering moving there but I fear the resulting mess (and it will be) will cost everyone billions to sort out.

*I understand the Scottish Crown actually took over the English one.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

"No one ever really gets the political system or party they want - at least we can vote them out.

I love Scotland and the people, I was considering moving there but I fear the resulting mess (and it will be) will cost everyone billions to sort out.

*I understand the Scottish Crown actually took over the English one.

Not quite, James VI was invited to take the throne of England by Parliament as he was the most qualified to do so. James became VI & I but the Crowns were not unified under the Stuarts & James was surrounded by English courtiers and restrained by an English Parliament & his native Scottish Parliament. In fact, the Stuarts were so uniformly bad that both Kingdoms eventually deposed them!

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By *inaTitzTV/TS over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

"Its about the English when we vote a labour government and England vote in a conservative party "

But what about us? I live in a solid Labour constituency and we still get a tory government every so often. Does this mean I should invest in a flag factory, too?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Too many questions, not enough grown up answers. The economics and legal aspects are terrifying but just seem to be glossed over...

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

Ah yes, the Scots locked into battle with their age old enemies, the Scots.

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By *cottishsexgoddessWoman over a year ago

Glenrothes

I will be voting yes. I do not hate other countries. Unlike a lot of my fellow Scots, I actually do know my history and therefore do not demonise the English. I do not go on and on about why we should vote yes etc. I just feel that this, being a very important day in our history, everyone who can vote should do so, regardless of whether it's yes or no. Whatever the outcome, I am a Scot today, and I will still be a Scot on 19 September.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

"Its about the English when we vote a labour government and England vote in a conservative party

But what about us? I live in a solid Labour constituency and we still get a tory government every so often. Does this mean I should invest in a flag factory, too?

Unfortunately, for some it is all about their Anglophobia - as evidenced above.

I would hope most are not like that but having partaken in a re-enactment of Bannockburn & encountered the naked Anglophobia from some d*unken tartan-clad thugs in the audience I know personally that it exists.

The people I most felt sorry for were the Scots who made up the majority of the 'English' army and who were being barracked as 'English bastards' whilst being so embarrassed at being our hosts for the weekend.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I will be voting yes. I do not hate other countries. Unlike a lot of my fellow Scots, I actually do know my history and therefore do not demonise the English. I do not go on and on about why we should vote yes etc. I just feel that this, being a very important day in our history, everyone who can vote should do so, regardless of whether it's yes or no. Whatever the outcome, I am a Scot today, and I will still be a Scot on 19 September. "

Could I ask you as a Scot why you are voting yes? Nothing inferred just what benefits it might bring?

Thanks

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By *oxy_minxWoman over a year ago

Scotland - Aberdeen

And I am also interested in why they have reduced the age of voting...... I know why,... But the truth will never come out

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By *othingButCocoChanelWoman over a year ago

Glasgow

"The sooner they shut up about it the happier I'll be.

This this this!!!

Wish they would take this advice witn 1966

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

you sir, are a fanny who needs to go and educate himself in regards to Scottish history

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I would like it to remain the way it is,I think its all rather sad

It is indeed!

Is it causing much tension up there?

let me repeat the story of an incident i suffered in Glasgow city centre, when i refused a leaflet from no campaigners the bloke turned to his mate and said that i was "one of those fenians who want to turn Scotland into another Ireland"

Lesson to be learned from this, there are ignorant cnuts on both sides.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"And I am also interested in why they have reduced the age of voting...... I know why,... But the truth will never come out "
the voting age has been on the political agenda for decades in Scotland, the argument being if 16/17 year olds are mature enough to marry, have children and join the armed forces why are they not allowed to take part in the democratic decision making process.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"What's your _iew ? I'm English and proud of it

I would like the Scots to vote yes

what's the _iew of other English people ?

Their vote not mine but I do wish the facts had been made clearer. On the plus side though if they do go for independence it will be good news for jobs in Yorkshire as a lot of companies are looking to relocate in this area.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"And I am also interested in why they have reduced the age of voting...... I know why,... But the truth will never come out the voting age has been on the political agenda for decades in Scotland, the argument being if 16/17 year olds are mature enough to marry, have children and join the armed forces why are they not allowed to take part in the democratic decision making process."

Yet not drink alcohol? Or drive a motor car?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We should have an alternative vote to build a big fuck off wall round central London so the rest of the country can get on with things without the 2 faced, self serving, money grabbing, expense fiddling, corrupt little turds who are causing all the trouble

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ah yes, the Scots locked into battle with their age old enemies, the Scots.

Every time I go north of the border all I hear about is bloody Culloden, which was basically lowland Scots against highland Scots (or vice versa) but the English get the blame. Anyway, Robert the Bruce basically invited the English in so he could win a war or two. Sorry, but as past experience shows, you don't invite someone in if you don't want them to outstay their welcome."
All you hear about is Culloden, really? I live in Scotland and no one I know bangs on about it. Anyone that does mention it knows it was a jacobite uprising and those that fought against it were Scottish, English and a few others to boot.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yet not drink alcohol? Or drive a motor car?"

congratulations Onny you have provided two more examples which will make people think.

the status quo says 16/17 year olds are not mature enough to drive responsibly or to drink responsibly but are mature enough to be responsible for the life of a child.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

The real sadness of Culloden is the butchery which followed.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"We should have an alternative vote to build a big fuck off wall round central London so the rest of the country can get on with things without the 2 faced, self serving, money grabbing, expense fiddling, corrupt little turds who are causing all the trouble "

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

Yet not drink alcohol? Or drive a motor car?

congratulations Onny you have provided two more examples which will make people think.

the status quo says 16/17 year olds are not mature enough to drive responsibly or to drink responsibly but are mature enough to be responsible for the life of a child."

As I said elsewhere, I ran into a horde of 16/17 year olds at Glasgow University last week and I suspect some of them were sharing a brain.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

I believe that it would be economic suicide For the UK to leave the EU.

Therefore I although I believe that the sundering of nations leads to smaller electorates and therefore more more extreme politics so we should stay together for all our mutual benefit, I have come to the conclusion that the best thing for the UK is for the Scots to sing 'O flower of Scotland as they march to the ballots waving their Saltaires and vote all vote 'Yes'. Then as the Scots wake up to the reality of being out of NATO, out of the EU and out of economic luck as their industry marches rapidly south into EU UK then maybe the Tory Euro skeptics will wake up to what will result if they force the next Tory government to take us out of the EU and shut the fuck up about Brussels forcing EU wide laws on the UK!

Scotland please take one for the UK team and vote Yes!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yet not drink alcohol? Or drive a motor car?

congratulations Onny you have provided two more examples which will make people think.

the status quo says 16/17 year olds are not mature enough to drive responsibly or to drink responsibly but are mature enough to be responsible for the life of a child.

As I said elsewhere, I ran into a horde of 16/17 year olds at Glasgow University last week and I suspect some of them were sharing a brain."

and yet my experience of teens and twenty somethings who are in the education system with me is that they display more maturity and intelligence that i've seen from you

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd like to visit scotland some day"

It's beautiful x go x

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By *parkle1974Woman over a year ago

Leeds

If I were allowed my vote it would be Yes

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I am hugely proud to be Scottish, I love being British and I spent most of my working life in England.

I don't have an anti England bone in this Scottish body.

it's a No from me."

I am the same Scottish lived in England most of my life and not anti English

BUT would vote yes it's a simple principle of the people in country should sort out their own affairs! Isn't that what lots of English people say about the EU?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Deciding whether or not to become independent has nothing to do with patriotism or nationalism. It's not about being Scottish and proud of it, or not liking England and the English.

I've done my research and I'll vote for what I believe is the best for Scotland."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The sooner they shut up about it the happier I'll be.

How dare people talk about one of the buggest decisions they will make

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It is indeed...SOME yes campaigners have been using bullying tactics and abuse to anyone who dares to say they are a NO, so whilst SOME people are proud to have the Yes flag in their window? The No's will never dare to! I think that says a lot

"
Sorry I have to disagree with you there has been numerous attacks verbal and physical on people who have said they are voting yes. If in doubt do some research and you will find the number attack on YES supports is alarming yet the attacks on NO is very low. But as I said do your own research and this you will find out to be true. The no campaign has the backing of racists and bigots and are proud to show they are voting NO.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"......

As I said elsewhere, I ran into a horde of 16/17 year olds at Glasgow University last week and I suspect some of them were sharing a brain.

and yet my experience of teens and twenty somethings who are in the education system with me is that they display more maturity and intelligence that i've seen from you

The ability to mislead the foolish is but one of my many talents

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"......

As I said elsewhere, I ran into a horde of 16/17 year olds at Glasgow University last week and I suspect some of them were sharing a brain.

and yet my experience of teens and twenty somethings who are in the education system with me is that they display more maturity and intelligence that i've seen from you

The ability to mislead the foolish is but one of my many talents

Only a misled fool would consider that a talent, feel free to continue fooling yourself.

btw, still waiting for your answer to the question:

Do you agree that it would be better to live in a more equal society ?

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"......

As I said elsewhere, I ran into a horde of 16/17 year olds at Glasgow University last week and I suspect some of them were sharing a brain.

and yet my experience of teens and twenty somethings who are in the education system with me is that they display more maturity and intelligence that i've seen from you

The ability to mislead the foolish is but one of my many talents

I have got to agree with you Onny, the only reason for reducing the voting age to 16 is to inflate the yes vote. Further I would point out that even the wording of the ballot is slued significantly towards independence. this has been done by making it a 'simple' Yes No question. Ask any psychologist and they will tell you that we are programmed to agree and that a statistically significant number of people will vote yes in direct contradiction of their _iew to be seen to be agreeing with the proposal. Therefore any yes no vote is rigged right from the start! Wonder how many 26 or 66 year olds (and all in between) let alone 16 year olds are sophisticated enough to realise they are being manipulated by the question?

But I bet your Wee Ek and Cameron knew exactly what they were doing when they agreed the wording of the ballot.

Funny how the nationalist and the right wing Tory who is trying to control his own bunch of little Englanders are both willing to sacrifice the Scots for their own nefarious ends.

But hey what would I know...

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"......

As I said elsewhere, I ran into a horde of 16/17 year olds at Glasgow University last week and I suspect some of them were sharing a brain.

and yet my experience of teens and twenty somethings who are in the education system with me is that they display more maturity and intelligence that i've seen from you

The ability to mislead the foolish is but one of my many talents

Only a misled fool would consider that a talent, feel free to continue fooling yourself.

btw, still waiting for your answer to the question:

Do you agree that it would be better to live in a more equal society ?"

How long have you been waiting?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"......

As I said elsewhere, I ran into a horde of 16/17 year olds at Glasgow University last week and I suspect some of them were sharing a brain.

and yet my experience of teens and twenty somethings who are in the education system with me is that they display more maturity and intelligence that i've seen from you

The ability to mislead the foolish is but one of my many talents

Only a misled fool would consider that a talent, feel free to continue fooling yourself.

btw, still waiting for your answer to the question:

Do you agree that it would be better to live in a more equal society ?

How long have you been waiting?"
since the first time you chose to evade answering the question, something which you clearly intend to continue.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"......

As I said elsewhere, I ran into a horde of 16/17 year olds at Glasgow University last week and I suspect some of them were sharing a brain.

and yet my experience of teens and twenty somethings who are in the education system with me is that they display more maturity and intelligence that i've seen from you

The ability to mislead the foolish is but one of my many talents

Only a misled fool would consider that a talent, feel free to continue fooling yourself.

btw, still waiting for your answer to the question:

Do you agree that it would be better to live in a more equal society ?"

Actually I agree with you that it is better to live in a more equal society. In fact it has been shown that the more equal a society is the better it functions and less crime there is. In fact I have read a paper that drew direct comparisons between the UK in the 50s and today. In the 50s the gap between the highest and the average pay was about X6 and by all measures the society was much happier than today when the gap has grown to X27/8, however everyone was much poorer in the 50s, and although they may have been happier life expectancy was much lower, as was the standard of living for all.

Be sure that in your hast to equalise society you dont do it by rewinding the clock and making everyone poorer. When they wake up to the pup you have sold them there will be a lot of very angry people looking for some payback!

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By *z ThongzWoman over a year ago

Lanarkshire

My sentiments exactly

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"......

As I said elsewhere, I ran into a horde of 16/17 year olds at Glasgow University last week and I suspect some of them were sharing a brain.

and yet my experience of teens and twenty somethings who are in the education system with me is that they display more maturity and intelligence that i've seen from you

The ability to mislead the foolish is but one of my many talents

Only a misled fool would consider that a talent, feel free to continue fooling yourself.

btw, still waiting for your answer to the question:

Do you agree that it would be better to live in a more equal society ?

dont make assumptions will, i'm not selling anything to anyone.

I will continue to challenge imbeciles and those who seek to provide untruths and disingenuous and/or selective versions of the reality of this referendum.

the truth is there are risks and uncertainties no matter whether we vote yes or no, and the only way to make the best decision is via seeking the truth, not from the rhetoric of political parties and the mainstream media.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

When I say your selling a pup I do not mean you as an individual I mean the Yes campaign that you are espousing.

Now I hate to find myself in agreement with the Tories and hate even more to find myself hoping for a result that will diminish the UK and the EU (by the way I am EU federalist) but I have found that over time I have changed from arguing for Scotland to vote no to hoping you vote yes.

But even now I feel I have to point out how you are being manipulated. Funny thing is I this will be my 4th post and the only thing that you or anyone else has commented on is that I addressed a comment of yours that you were saying no one had answered by saying don't assume I am selling anything.

I have to wonder why you and all the other posters since my first post have ignored what I am actually saying?

Is this because you all know deep down that you've nailed your colours to the mast of a ship that is being piloted to its doom but have invested so much in your nationalism that you cant back down and let sanity reign.

If you go back and read my first post tonight you will realise that I believe that south of Hadrian s Wall we have exactly the same problem and just like in Scotland it is seated in the most powerful political party and I have come to the conclusion that it will take the bankruptcy and rape of Scotland by the international money markets to force our Nationalist to change course.

But hey, I understand none of you want to acknowledge anything I say unless it is to pick holes in my grammar. I think that alone speaks volumes, shame you and I believe the majority or your country is refusing to listen.

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By *opinovMan over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria

I've been reading a lot of posts about this in numerous threads on numerous fora and I've noticed one thing that stands out above all else.

A great deal has been said about the devisive nature of this issue and how weary many are of the way the debate has brought out people's negative traits on both sides.

As one living in England who has been fairly ambivalent so far, it's becoming pretty clear to me that the majority of negative, disparaging and resentful posts have been made by those who are against a YES vote. This seems to accord with the overall approach of the Better Together campaign, which seems to rely mainly upon threats of border posts, unwillimgness to allow Scots to retain the pound and the like.

But surely, any Scot might ask, if you want us to stay you would also be happy to wish us well if we choose to leave?... is that not what friends do?...

It rather begs the question: if England is so contemptuous of Scotland as to make such threats or attempt to instill such fear of leaving - then was the relationship ever anything more than a sham anyway?...

Perhaps it's for reasons like this that more and more Scots feel they're better off going it alone.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

And there are no risk, you have been told by the people who hold your economic future in their hands what will happen if you vote yes. But according to your leaders they dont know what their talking about and your new country will be able to force the whole world to do as your leaders want.

That will not happen, if you vote yes, those people will do exactly what they have said they will do and Scotland will be doomed to become another third world country with the plague of oil. There are lots of them round the world, you might like to take a look at Nigeria, or Venezuela, there are plenty more.

Further I think you will find that there will be very little sympathy for you south of the border, and that over night you will find that the line on the map that runs down the middle of the t becomes a new Hadrian's Wall and you will not be able to cross at will.

And for this I am truly sorry for you.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"I've been reading a lot of posts about this in numerous threads on numerous fora and I've noticed one thing that stands out above all else.

A great deal has been said about the devisive nature of this issue and how weary many are of the way the debate has brought out people's negative traits on both sides.

But surely, any Scot might ask, if you want us to stay you would also be happy to wish us well if we choose to leave?... is that not what friends do?...

Perhaps it's for reasons like this that more and more Scots feel they're better off going it alone. "

You ignore one major thing. We are in the EU, if Scotland votes to secede from the UK it automatically secedes from the EU, and therefore falls foul of EU border controls. No country outside the EU shares an open border with any EU country and for exactly the same reasons as Scotland will not be granted automatic re-entry to the EU it will not be given special border status. Spain has said it will veto any such motion in the council of ministers and the EU parliament.

Pointing out unpalatable truths is being written off as negative campaigning, that has to be the biggest crime of the whole sorry affair.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"I've been reading a lot of posts about this in numerous threads on numerous fora and I've noticed one thing that stands out above all else.

A great deal has been said about the devisive nature of this issue and how weary many are of the way the debate has brought out people's negative traits on both sides.

But surely, any Scot might ask, if you want us to stay you would also be happy to wish us well if we choose to leave?... is that not what friends do?...

Perhaps it's for reasons like this that more and more Scots feel they're better off going it alone. "

Pointing out unpalatable truths is being written off as negative campaigning, that has to be the biggest crime of the whole sorry affair.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"When I say your selling a pup I do not mean you as an individual I mean the Yes campaign that you are espousing.

I have to wonder why you and all the other posters since my first post have ignored what I am actually saying?

a tip will, when you quote and comment it gives the impression that your comments are directed toward that specific individual you have quoted, might be worth bearing in mind.

as far as responding to you goes, i didnt feel the need to do so until you quoted me, mainly as your previous comments were little more than the same reguritated no campaign rhetoric we have been hearing for the last two years.

oh, and the 16/17 year old vote doesnt seem to be going in the yes campaigns favour, indications are that it will be just as close a split as that of the rest of the electorate.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

Have you ever wondered why the no campaign has been saying the same thing for 2 years and why the leaders of the yes campaign have refused to actually answer the points raised?

Here's an idea...

Because the no campaign has been telling you the facts and the yes campaign are so hungry for power that they just like those who support the yes campaign have just been ignoring the fact. Maybe your all hoping that everyone will change their mind when you say yes and ignore their own vested interests in order to save Scotland from the consequences of its actions?

And if you read my posts you will notice that in 2 posts I have said that for my own selfish self interests I hope you vote yes, my other posts have actually been about how the vote is rigged due to human behaviour, and how you were correct in wanting a fairer society, as do I being a socialist, but that I do not want a fairer society by means of reducing living standards which is what will happen if Scotland vote yes. Remember I want Scotland to vote yes. But I will not ignore truths I know to bolster a position that I know is actually not in Scotland's best interest. That would be dishonest and would leave me open to being called criminal for withholding information from you. And that seems to me to have been the position taken up by the better off together campaign. I must say that it seems to me that every step down this tortured path the no campaign has without withholding any facts has managed to tell you the truth in such a way that I believe that is will be very difficult for Scotland to avoid seceding from the UK. If I were cynical I would be believing that long ago a decision was taken to sacrifice Scotland to save England, Wales and N. Ireland, and that in truth the Tories don't give a toss about Wales if the truth be know.

Anyway we will soon know Scotland decision, and then it will just be a matter of some short months until we will all know who was telling the truth.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

By the way, in studies it has been found that when you ask a question 2 different ways where there is a yes no answer there is a 10% swing in favour of the yes answer.

You might want to give that little fact a bit of consideration before you put your X in the Yes box, but please vote Yes and save the UK from a fate worse than Scotland's when your countrymen vote yes by a small majority.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Have you ever wondered why the no campaign has been saying the same thing for 2 years and why the leaders of the yes campaign have refused to actually answer the points raised?

Here's an idea...

Anyway we will soon know Scotland decision, and then it will just be a matter of some short months until we will all know who was telling the truth."

let me give you the answers just now will, both sides have told some truths, both sides have told some lies and both sides have avoided answering questions, sometimes because the answers would damage their campaigns but mostly because they cant be answered unless both the Scottish gov and the UK gov get round a table negotiate and come to a consensus until such time the only answers are...

.... nobody knows !!!

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

But that's the point. It is not up to Scotland and England.

Its up to the EU and the international money markets.

Scotland can not have the pound, fact, because the bank of England can not be its bank of last resort. It can have a Scottish Pound (your banks already print their own money) and it can be fixed by your independent government to the £ sterling. However you will have to have your own bank of last resort, and in exactly the same way as the international carpet baggers tore the ERM apart costing this country £3 billion on Black Wednesday 1992. the vultures will tare down any attempt Scotland makes to tie their currency to the £ and we have been had over that way once and the Bank of England will not let another Government make the same mistake again.

Border restrictions will be a decision for Brussels and Spain have said they will veto any relaxations on membership or trading into the EU from Scotland. This is not because they have anything against you sorry Scotland. It is because they have their own Basque separatist movement to quell and they will use Scotland as a salutary and object lesson in the cost of secession for the Basques to learn from. France and Germany who also have growing problems of the same type will not put pressure on Madrid to change its mind for the same reason. This will mean Scotland will be out of the EU and therefore all the inward investment industry and commerce in the Scottish central belt and Aberdeen that located there because of relatively low unit costs compared to the rest of the UK for supply to the rest of the EU will be moving south of the border in short order. They have told you this, but your little Scotlanders just like our little Englanders refuse to believe it.

Further the EU is a closed market with import duties that Scotland will find itself having to pay to sell its oil into the EU, and just like every other veto Spain will not allow Scotland have any special treatment without going through the long and complex application procedure. This will destroy what ever economy you have left after your main employers have moved south.

None of the above is guess work, every thing I have said is already set in stone. You as in Scotland have been told, by the international businesses based in Scotland, by the chancer of the exchequer and the Governor of the Bank Of England, by the Spanish government and the the President of the European Commission.

Its not up to Scotland or England what happens if you leave the UK. all the decisions have already been made. you leave and the above are the consequences I know about. Of course you will also be out of NATO and because you (Scotland again) have said that you will demand the removal of Trident I cant see NATO welcoming you with open arms as you cut their total fire-power by about 10% and of course with your economy in tatters how will you stop the US companies that own and run the oil rigs from diverting the production away from Scotland and withholding your share of the oil revenue? and before you say thats a guess, its what they do in the rest of the world, except for the OPEC countries and I cant see the Saudi's riding to your rescue, in fact I can see them increasing production to drive the price of Brent crude down its what they have done in the past when they have seen a chance to hurt the UK and just because you have said your an independent country I cant see the Arabs changing their attitude to you, can you?

I could go on but what's the point?

vote yes and if I'm wrong you will be able to gloat all over the forums. Of course if I am right I will (very reluctantly) give something to the aid appeals when they appear, but I think that there will be many loud voices this side of the new border that will be saying "they brought it on themselves" and "their nothing to do with us now" the Tory rank and file will not give you a free pass back of that I am sure.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I for one hope that Scottish decide to stay part of the union. All the talk of the benefits or negatives of going it alone are surely just assumptions !. A Scottish government will be made up of the same type of scrotums as a our English government . What ever the outcome all the best Scotland .

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Not all scottish people want independence"

Just those that have done some research.

I'm hoping for, and expecting a YES vote!

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By *opinovMan over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria

"I've been reading a lot of posts about this in numerous threads on numerous fora and I've noticed one thing that stands out above all else.

A great deal has been said about the devisive nature of this issue and how weary many are of the way the debate has brought out people's negative traits on both sides.

But surely, any Scot might ask, if you want us to stay you would also be happy to wish us well if we choose to leave?... is that not what friends do?...

Perhaps it's for reasons like this that more and more Scots feel they're better off going it alone.

___________

Pointing out unpalatable truths is being written off as negative campaigning, that has to be the biggest crime of the whole sorry affair. "

Mind you, given the possibility that rUK may vote to leave the EU in the promissed referendum, a YES vote may not make any difference - indeed, it may even be Scotland's best bet for remaining in the EU.

The words of a single politician in Spain doesn't really represent an official position, especially when you consider that the remaining stability of many parts of Spain's economy (and employment) relies on continued access to the cold water fishing areas off Scotland - you can be sure they'll do everything they can to keep that.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It's the same on both sides,i had a no supporter ram my car with my son in it, all because of a sticker

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By *otlovefun42Couple over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"But that's the point. It is not up to Scotland and England.

Its up to the EU and the international money markets.

I could go on but what's the point?

That is pretty good but there are a couple of details that need correcting.

Scotland's border wouldn't be just down to Brussels. As a new EU member (subject to Spain not vetoing it which is probable) Scotland would have to sign the Shengen agreement allowing an open border with all other countries in the "Shengen zone" Britain isn't part of Shengen so (as is the case with France, Belgium, Holland Etc.) it will have to create a border with passport and customs control between the two. Gretna the new Calais?

As for the Spanish veto. It is almost certain that Spain and possibly France would veto any application by Scotland, not only because of the Basques but also Catalonia which has an equally strong separatist movement and both of these regions straddle the Spanish/French border.

On the currency question you are pretty much spot on. I would only add that a timetable to join the Euro is also (like Shengen) a condition for all new EU applicants, so eventually (again subject to Spanish or French veto) Scotland would have no other choice than the Euro.

Mr Salmond can smile and try to gloss over all these issues as much as he likes, but the hard facts of life will not change.

To anyone in Scotland I would say think very carefully before you jump off the cliff because the parachute wont open and the landing will be very hard indeed.

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By *opinovMan over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria

The Chengen agreement doesn't preclude an open border between Scotland and England or N Ireland simply on the basis the UK's negotiated exemption, and there's nothing in the agreement or the UK's and Ireland's exemptions that would make border controls mandatory. At a huge stretch of the imagination, one might conceive that rUK might insist upon it to exact revenge upon Scotland for leaving but this would mean that any over-land haulage between England and N Ireland would have to pass through two sets of such controls (pretty much each end of the A75 - one at Grenta and the other at Stranraer). It would be ather like cutting off one's nose to spite one's face... also, the transport and retail lobbies simply won't allow it to happen - if it comes down to it, rUK will most likely have to concede open borders to avoid having to redirect all such traffic through Holyhead. Any fool can see right through the current threats regarding this as purely bluster and aimed solely at exerting pressure upon the Scottish electorate to vote no.

Given Europe's increasing need for a steady supply of oil, I think there's every reason to expect an independent Scotland to join the EU without much trouble, especially considering the EU's clamouring for new solvent states to help fund the recovery from the PIG's (and other's) fiscal fuck-ups. Spain, regardless of concerns over any paranoically perceived encouragement of the Basque separatists, is far more likely to want to retain access to Scottish fishing waters as a preciously stable means to help prop up what's left of its teetering economy - more so as it's own native fishing grounds are fucked. France, similarly, will probably want to keep the door open to favourable trading conditions for Scottish oil and petroleum supplies as will many other European states, especially given the increasing stranglehold being exerted by Russia on supplies from the east - worries about the Catalans won't count for much when Europe's pumps run dry, factories grind to a halt or lights start going out.

Of course, Scotland could always decide to join rUK in a separately negotiated British economic agreement if Cameron's planned EU membership referendum results in a vote to leave the EU - in which case, open borders and common use of Sterling could remain pretty much as is without much ado. Scotland could then agree to sell its oil to either rUK or the US and leave the EU wishing it hadn't been so anal - a result highly likely to please many in both England and Scotland.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don't get what the fuss is with so many English people its the Scotts that will decide anyway so why bother.

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By *ranthamThroatMan over a year ago

Grantham.

"Do you think the English ,Welsh , northern Irish should have a vote on this ? Thier are Four Country's in the UK and only one is having a say !"

No, why should they?

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By *ranthamThroatMan over a year ago

Grantham.

"I am hugely proud to be Scottish, I love being British and I spent most of my working life in England.

I don't have an anti England bone in this Scottish body.

it's a No from

me."

I fully agree!

It would be a great shame and a potential disaster for the whole of what is now the UK, and sadly a rejection of our shared history, which has, for the most part, worked for more than a few years.

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By *ranthamThroatMan over a year ago

Grantham.

"Iam not that interested I hope its sorted soon cos iam sick of the bbc sucking scotlands arse tellin the _iewer how nice it is n not puttin decent programs on"

Oh so no interest then apart form watching BBC? fucking hilarious!

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By *ranthamThroatMan over a year ago

Grantham.

"Patriotism is a love of your country, nationalisation is a hatred of other countries, never a truer word, by George Orwell

Nowt to do with Xenophobia then?

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By *ranthamThroatMan over a year ago

Grantham.

"The very sad thing is that it looks like it is going to be a close call with getting on for 50% not wanting the outcome that they are going to have to live with.

I think that thie uncertainty brought about by a close vote either way will be very bad for everyone.

Brilliant!

I do actually understand the Scottish sentiment to leave the UK.

Said it all really.

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By *punkloverCouple over a year ago

hatfield

They should have given England the vote too if they wanted to keep the Scots ! lol

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By *ranthamThroatMan over a year ago

Grantham.

"I'd rather keep the Jocks. We've not done too badly together and I'm quite fond of the map the way it is.

However, I daresay there are plenty of builders in Northumbria and Cumberland just itching to put in a quote for a big repointing job...."

I'd rather keep the Jocks.

Yes, but this is one of the reasons they don't want ruling by Westminster, we aren't fucking Jocks, we are equal, equalty, you of all on people here I thought you would not be so flippant about!

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"The Chengen agreement doesn't preclude an open border between Scotland and England or N Ireland simply on the basis the UK's negotiated exemption, and there's nothing in the agreement or the UK's and Ireland's exemptions that would make border controls mandatory.

that is on the assumption that Scotland would be included within all UK agreements, and Scotland would gain automatic acceptance to the EU.. which if they are walking away I don't think you can do

but to your statement...actually.... yes it does.....

the reason that the UK and Ireland have a seperate agreement (UK, Ireland, Channel islands and the Isle of Man) the CTA, is to allow travel between Ireland north and south without border control... If Ireland signed up for Schengen, it would make the CTA invalid.... unless both Ireland and the UK signed up for Schengen... which the UK is not going to do......

The UK and Ireland's Opt out is actually "the treaty of amsterdam" within the actual "Schengen agreement"

technically, any new member is the EU is Duty bound to sign up to Schengen... which means one of two things....

you have open borders with the UK...

or you have Open Borders with Europe... but you don't get both unless all parties agree....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"When I say your selling a pup I do not mean you as an individual I mean the Yes campaign that you are espousing.

I have to wonder why you and all the other posters since my first post have ignored what I am actually saying?

I happen to be voting yes because I have looked at both sides (Not from political rhetoric) from evidence based facts that I have personally researched. I am not naive enough to be swayed by politicians.

Yes/No vote simple ballot. This was insisted by the government or we wouldn't have got the opportunity.

16 year olds were given the vote because this is about their future.

Yes all the way for me, I could care less what anyone thinks, never been bullied, never will be.

I actually vote conservative too btw, go figure that dichotomy

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"if you vote yes, those people will do exactly what they have said they will do and Scotland will be doomed to become another third world country with the plague of oil. There are lots of them round the world, you might like to take a look at Nigeria, or Venezuela, there are plenty more.

And for this I am truly sorry for you. "
Must admit this I find rather funny Scotland will become a third world country and be doomed lmfao Question do you by any chance work for better together? Where do you get your financial infusion from?

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

And for this I am truly sorry for you. Must admit this I find rather funny Scotland will become a third world country and be doomed lmfao Question do you by any chance work for better together? Where do you get your financial infusion from? "

again I urge people to read the paul krugman piece in the new york times.... I'd listen to someone without a dog in the fight...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/08/opinion/paul-krugman-scots-what-the-heck.html?_r=0

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"again I urge people to read the paul krugman piece in the new york times"

I've just read this piece, it does nothing for me in terms of changing my mind for a few reasons.

Paul compares us to Spain and Canada by comparing Canada and the US.

Spain has suffered as have the Netherlands and Southern Europe yes, these financial troubles were due to a mortgage scandal that affected the world, this ultimately led to crashes on a global scale, he also.compares Spain to Florida.

All of his comparisons are based on what ifs, his fiscal argument is about us sharing the pound and not having a central bank, we do though and should we walk away with no sharing of the pound, we walk away with a share of fiscal deficit and assets as we own 1/4 and that's a worse case scenario.

Fabio, please dont take this wrong but I see you wanting to convince others by urging people to think for themselves, what makes you think we do not?

Frankly, I find what you post laughable at best, then to quote a journalist, from a less than reputable rag, who bases his piece on what ifs and fear, condescending.

What currency will we use?

Money

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

if i lived in england now i would get all my money out of the bank as when scotland becomes independent and westminester dont have our oil,whisky revenues they will not be able to pay the trillions of debt that is why the 3 stooges are up here today on their knees pleading for us to say no,why beg a country they claim to subsidise to stay surely you would want rid of it ?

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Fabio, please dont take this wrong but I see you wanting to convince others by urging people to think for themselves, what makes you think we do not?

Frankly, I find what you post laughable at best, then to quote a journalist, from a less than reputable rag, who bases his piece on what ifs and fear, condescending.

What currency will we use?

Money"

see.... and don't this the wrong way either... I find the way you answered both laughable and scary...

this is my thinking...

all decisions made at a local level are always made by scottish people thru the scottish parliament... you have more power than us just over the other side of the border in north east england have.....

for example....

you decided to keep universitys free, you decided to keep prescriptions free

and a ton of other differences...

speaking as someone now who lives in the north east... do i think there is a distinct difference between between people here in north east england.. and people in scotland.... nope...

probably a bigger difference between people in the north east and people in the south east

your vote does affect us here.... probably a lot more that you care to realise or understand and I don't think people always undersatnd that... but heck at least you are getting a vote, right!!!!

we get your consequence without a vote...

am i a big believer in regional assemblies... you bet!!! there are decisions that are better made at local level....

currency aint one....

defence aint one....

foreign policy aint one....

you might not care what currency you use... I think you might care to know the currency in your pocket is worth something......

if you decide to go.... go! walk away! but if you decide to go... clean break!!! currency, bbc, passport controls, new membership to the EU via the right process... the lot

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By *lam rockerMan over a year ago

Tain

interestingly - the main three political partirs don't want it.

Labour will never get in power again and when Scotland changes its corporation tax rates the 'city' will move to Edinburgh and make it the new financial centre of the British isles.

I'm Scottish and have no vote but get asked about it all the time - I say, I'd like us to say together but for the rest of the UK to be independent of the City State of Greater London. Those closeted in a city with great public transport, all the shops and businesses they need, and who have no need to leave, cannot ever understand the issues in the rest of Britain.

Whatever way Scotland votes, we should accept the decision of a nation to decide its own destiny.

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By *ex4unowCouple over a year ago

near you

Like most i don't want a break up

I hope they get it

Then they can all sit down and carve up great britain

In a few months they can let us know how much more tax their going to rob from us

For less services

Tories will win all elections

All benefits will be axed

But scotland can't blame london for the fallout they have caused

Maybe i'm wrong but guessing what will happen is just that a guess

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

thats not strictly true is it? I think youll find the vikings ruled for a considerable time but hey ho william wallace believe what you will.

If scotland want independence let them have it as long as the rest of britain withdraws stirling as currency there. Pull out all of our troops and military hardware and gloat when Alex Salmond comes knocking at westminsters door after putin fecides its fair game for a take over saying oche aye you wouldnt mind giving a wee bit of help getting rid of these unwanted visitors would you lol

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By *ptimusDMan over a year ago

Birmingham

I'd like Scotland to stay in the union because it is a better situation for everyone all round.

That being said, I've had it up to my eyeballs with their eternal whining and whinging and their making out as if they're second class citizens and always getting the shitty end of the stick.

If they vote to leave, I'll wish them goodbye and good luck and I hope it'll be made very clear that they're now on their own.

They'll soon find out that there's a lot more to running a country than forever bleating about North Sea Oil, free tuition fees and free prescriptions.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd like Scotland to stay in the union because it is a better situation for everyone all round.

That being said, I've had it up to my eyeballs with their eternal whining and whinging and their making out as if they're second class citizens and always getting the shitty end of the stick.

If they vote to leave, I'll wish them goodbye and good luck and I hope it'll be made very clear that they're now on their own.

They'll soon find out that there's a lot more to running a country than forever bleating about North Sea Oil, free tuition fees and free prescriptions.

"
well said

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"if i lived in england now i would get all my money out of the bank as when scotland becomes independent and westminester dont have our oil,whisky revenues they will not be able to pay the trillions of debt that is why the 3 stooges are up here today on their knees pleading for us to say no,why beg a country they claim to subsidise to stay surely you would want rid of it ?"

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

I'm already planning to move any pension funds that are based in Scotland/Scottish companies. As the new Scottish currency and banking/investment system will not be backstopped by the Bank of England I'm not taking the risk. Going of the reports in the business media I'm not alone in thinking this.

Capital flight is going to be a major concern for Scotland given that investments in that area are 12X that of the Scottish economy.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

After the cynical manipulating charade that was the vote for electoral reform, I'm just enjoying watching Cameron and friends cack their pants as they realise they might not be able to "con the stupid Scotts" into staying, like they conned the UK into keeping the first past the post system... but that the Scotts might actually have some valid opinions of their own concerning their own destiny lol

I'd vote yes if I had a vote. But then I always was a dreamer

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By *lam rockerMan over a year ago

Tain

"I'd like Scotland to stay in the union because it is a better situation for everyone all round.

That being said, I've had it up to my eyeballs with their eternal whining and whinging and their making out as if they're second class citizens and always getting the shitty end of the stick.

If they vote to leave, I'll wish them goodbye and good luck and I hope it'll be made very clear that they're now on their own.

They'll soon find out that there's a lot more to running a country than forever bleating about North Sea Oil, free tuition fees and free prescriptions.

"
that'd be a country with its own established education, law and medical systems then. With huge tax offices, and the infrastructure of an independent country like councils, police, fire, hospitals, public transport, big business, finance, etc. Scotland is a separate country joined by a political union with three others. Perhaps the natives have decided they want control of their destiny, whatever that may be, rather than be under the control of a government some 700 miles away. It isn't all oil - it's fishing, whisky, tourism, sport, creative industries like computer gaming as well as manufacturing that keep Scotland busy. Like you, I'm not getting a say in the vote but I think the short term pain of independence may just be worth it.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

it is driving me round the bend now.... wish it was over

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

Short term? This is a forever decision.

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By *lam rockerMan over a year ago

Tain

"Short term? This is a forever decision."
yes but there will be short term pain of a transition to independence and then the chance to prosper or die. There's less chance of a Darien type slump this time round.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It isn't all oil - it's fishing, whisky, tourism, sport, creative industries like computer gaming as well as manufacturing that keep Scotland busy. Like you, I'm not getting a say in the vote but I think the short term pain of independence may just be worth it. "

I agree. I think people who spin yarns about Scotland collapsing to it's knees when it realises it's a country full of lazy untalented people are living in cloud cuckoo land. In my opinion, Scotland is likely to prosper under it's own management. Indeed it could see a tremendous flourishing which, in turn, could lead to greater prosperity via trade in the north of England, another place traditionally overlooked by the politicos in Westminster.

However, I'm growingly aware of another option that no one has yet considered...

What if the Scotts vote yes and the rest of the UK says "no can do"?

Perhaps a better way forward for all of us is to move to a federal system in which Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, and England are each independent in a majority of ways, just as the states are in the USA, but that there is still some kind of super level, a federal level, at which we are joined. This might end up being what the Scotts have to settle for... you heard it here first lol

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

There is as much difference between value and values as there is between money and value. An overwhelming percentage of the United Kingdom values the Union - it's history, legacy and its future.

A very tiny percentage of the population want to force everlasting change on the majority that don't want the change. Scotland has ended up here because of decisions made by Blair and through the devolution art process that he promoted for Scotland and denied for England means that next week, 4% of the UK population could force change. That change being just over 50% of Scottish voters.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm concerned about possible negative consequences for the North East should Scotland get the power (through independence or devo max) to vary corporation tax. If it were to reduce the rate there's a risk of taking businesses over the border that might otherwise have located here.

I'm not Scottish, and maybe I'm being fed a biased _iew of things by the media, but the yes campaign seems unbelievably naive about the economic consequences that would ensue from independence, which would likely be overwhelmingly negative for Scotland and rUK in the first instance. Alex Salmond is coming across bullish and manipulative and I'm so disappointed people seem to be falling for his shallow rhetoric.

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By *hris n AnnaCouple over a year ago

edinburghish

you sir, are a fanny who needs to go and educate himself in regards to Scottish history

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By *emmefataleWoman over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

"it is driving me round the bend now.... wish it was over

"
And me, wish there was a fast forward button.

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By *ilthydirtyfuckersCouple over a year ago

Bristol

I don't want to break up the UK , but if they vote Yes , I really hope we play hardball with them in the negotiations. I had a letter today from Standard Life based up there about my pension. Basically they are saying if it's a yes vote they will move South. I don't think the Scots realise how many businesses will get the fuck out of the place if it's a yes .

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By *eneral HysteriaMan over a year ago

Newcastle

I think those who think it'll be a better place if they vote Yes are deluded.

The rich 1% will still get richer on the oil money they keep harping on about, the poor will get poorer as no one will give a hoot (see what I did there?) and those in the middle will likely be worse off, if not in the immediate future, soon after.

Once the dust has settled Salmond and his cronies will have all the cream while the ordinary people will need a fuck-load of alka-seltzer because they're gonna have hundred-year hang-over when they realise the error of their ways.

And I agree with the post earlier... Play Hard-Ball

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By *eneral HysteriaMan over a year ago

Newcastle

"...

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By *eneral HysteriaMan over a year ago

Newcastle

And anna999UK - we should discuss this over coffee

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"I don't want to break up the UK , but if they vote Yes , I really hope we play hardball with them in the negotiations. I had a letter today from Standard Life based up there about my pension. Basically they are saying if it's a yes vote they will move South. I don't think the Scots realise how many businesses will get the fuck out of the place if it's a yes . "

Standard Life, Lloyds (inc Scottish Widows and Bank of Scotland) Royal Bank of Scotland and many others have made it clear they're offski.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Standard Life, Lloyds (inc Scottish Widows and Bank of Scotland) Royal Bank of Scotland and many others have made it clear they're offski."

Standard life and others are saying the same and it could be a massive upheaval though on the positive Yorkshire and Lancashire will benefit. If it is as bad as 300,000 positions it will be a nightmare for house prices dropping and rising.

I have been trying to find out how many people are in employment in Scotland does anyone know?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

In my opinion we lost Scotland the minute the question was 'do you want an independent Scotland?' yes or no. If it had been 'do you want to stay with the UK?' yes or no, it would've framed the whole union argument in a much more positive light, with big "YES" signs behind their heads... whilst the separatists would've been left arguing what was wrong about staying in the UK with big fat "NO" signs behind them

Cynical perhaps... but you've got to hand it to Salmond that he set the question up in his favor from the start. As a result the vote is a vote for a dream, a vote for freedom... whereas it could easily have been a vote for certainty and tradition.

Personally... I'm glad it's a vote for a dream... that's the only kind of vote worth anything these days imo

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

In total? Roughly 2,600,000.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"In total? Roughly 2,600,000."

Cool cheers it makes the 10% thing I heard today about right then.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

We only have another few days and then it will be over...

Unless the vote does not go Wee Ek's way than we will be revisiting this all over again in 5 or 10 years time.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"We only have another few days and then it will be over...

Unless the vote does not go Wee Ek's way than we will be revisiting this all over again in 5 or 10 years time.

Oh Dog, I hope not. When he loses, Eck should do the decent thing and ride off into the sunset.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"We only have another few days and then it will be over...

Unless the vote does not go Wee Ek's way than we will be revisiting this all over again in 5 or 10 years time.

Oh Dog, I hope not. When he loses, Eck should do the decent thing and ride off into the sunset."

He is a politician! He will only go when kicked out and then it will be kicking and screaming!

In that they are all the same.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

I suspect you're right. He's spent years trying to convince us he's different but we knew it was bollox.

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By *ce WingerMan over a year ago

P.O. Box DE1 0NQ

I'm so sorry, did I miss something, what's going on here then?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm so sorry, did I miss something, what's going on here then?

I dunno but someone mentioned that RBS will be packing up & heading south & It could hamper the Scottish independence celebrations - how sad

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A yes vote will destroy the power the UK has on the international stage and wil impact us all financially in the following 20-50 years.

For Scotland it will be a bigger disaster. 5m people in a 500m people Europe, if they are let in. Currency unknown, their mortgage rate will reach double figures.

Pension costs in Scotland now are 1.5x oil revenue ... They will go bust quickly without help.

We'll be both ineffective in NATO, the Labour party will lose many mp's from Westminster, the foreigners will have to leave the house of commons and lords.

It will be a disaster for our children for the UK and for Scotland.

I hope they vote No and are given more devolution power by Westminster... That would be a sensible path.

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By *andS66Couple over a year ago

Derby

Standard Life, Lloyds (inc Scottish Widows and Bank of Scotland) Royal Bank of Scotland and many others have made it clear they're offski."

So let me get this right then...

Financial Institutions will move out of Scotland if there is a yes vote, and Grace England with their presence? Wasn't it financial institutions screwing up that got us into recession in 2008?

And they're moving to England?

What splendid news for England.

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By *ratty_DamselWoman over a year ago

Greater London

The yes campaign now has the scum aka the ( vomit bowl please) sun supporting too.

So whats in it for Murdoch and co?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Standard Life, Lloyds (inc Scottish Widows and Bank of Scotland) Royal Bank of Scotland and many others have made it clear they're offski.

So let me get this right then...

Financial Institutions will move out of Scotland if there is a yes vote, and Grace England with their presence? Wasn't it financial institutions screwing up that got us into recession in 2008?

And they're moving to England?

What splendid news for England."

Your right they did however look at them now doing very well. Alex Salmon don't care about Scottish people or financial institutions, he does not like England.. and he is financially made for life...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I vote no only because I think together we are stronger sharing is caring sort of thing

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By *iss_tressWoman over a year ago

London

"The very sad thing is that it looks like it is going to be a close call with getting on for 50% not wanting the outcome that they are going to have to live with.

I think that thie uncertainty brought about by a close vote either way will be very bad for everyone.

What a well thought out post!

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By *oo hotCouple over a year ago

North West

"A yes vote will destroy the power the UK has on the international stage and wil impact us all financially in the following 20-50 years.

For Scotland it will be a bigger disaster. 5m people in a 500m people Europe, if they are let in. Currency unknown, their mortgage rate will reach double figures.

Pension costs in Scotland now are 1.5x oil revenue ... They will go bust quickly without help.

We'll be both ineffective in NATO, the Labour party will lose many mp's from Westminster, the foreigners will have to leave the house of commons and lords.

It will be a disaster for our children for the UK and for Scotland.

I hope they vote No and are given more devolution power by Westminster... That would be a sensible path. "

Devolution for one, devolution for all.

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By *lam rockerMan over a year ago

Tain

The banks etc will not be moving lock stock and barrel to England. Their London offices will on paper become their head offices with the moving of a few hundred jobs. It's all scaremongering.

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By *hrissie1961Woman over a year ago

dumfries and galloway

I am shocked by some of the comments here...comparing it to a sporting event

The uk is about to be ripped apart because of one mans ambition.....he won't be around in fifty years, nor will any if the main political people.

IF Scotland votes yes....the whole country will be affected.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Sure even if it is a 'no' this isn't going away, there'll be another referendum in a few years, and another after that until a 'Yes' wins. I think it will be a 'no' this time but it's time to start looking at the map differently.

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By *ustFFWoman over a year ago

ayrshire

Still far too many unanswered questions - so it's a huge "NO" from my household !!

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"Their London offices will on paper become their head offices with the moving of a few hundred jobs. It's all scaremongering. "

Actually that is not correct, although there may not be movement of many jobs south there will be massive movement of finances. Just like Amazon, Costa Coffee and numerous other businesses that have small head offices in foreign countries to avoid paying UK tax, when businesses move their HQ's south of the border they also move the place they pay tax on their profits.

I haven't heard of any businesses saying that independence will lead to them moving north...

Maybe those who keep poopooing all the financial warnings they are getting from round the world should take off the blindfolds and see the disaster you are rushing towards.

However if you have any care for the rUK then vote a big YES next week and show England the real cost of leaving the EU. You will save us from making the same mistake due to little men wrapping themselves in The Flag and demanding the right to be the whole of a little thing than a significant part of a much larger thing.

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By *efreeMan over a year ago

North Staffs

Heard that RBS Lloyd's portfolio is thirteen times bigger than the whole if the Scottish economy, so how would a new independent Scottish government bail them out next time!

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By *i-shoptonMan over a year ago

bishopton

"The sooner they shut up about it the happier I'll be.

How dare people talk about one of the buggest decisions they will make

Well said.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"Heard that RBS Lloyd's portfolio is thirteen times bigger than the whole if the Scottish economy, so how would a new independent Scottish government bail them out next time! "

Lets hope it never happens but if it did, Scotland would be fucked.

So fucked in fact that the rUK would probably HAVE to bail us out, even though there'd be no legal obligation to do so.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"In my opinion we lost Scotland the minute the question was 'do you want an independent Scotland?' yes or no. If it had been 'do you want to stay with the UK?' yes or no, it would've framed the whole union argument in a much more positive light, with big "YES" signs behind their heads... whilst the separatists would've been left arguing what was wrong about staying in the UK with big fat "NO" signs behind them

Personally... I'm glad it's a vote for a dream... that's the only kind of vote worth anything these days imo

Salmond didn't set the question up in his favour at all. The original question he wanted was 'Do you agree that Scotland should be an independent country?' and he was told that unless he changed it to the one we have now, he wasn't getting Westminster consent to hold a referendum.

One other small point, the majority of Scottish people (however slim that majority might be for now) don't want Independence and whatever way the vote goes, it's going to be a fairly slim majority either way and in my book, that isn't enough to determine the future of a whole country. Whether it's a yes or no, we'll start off as a divided nation and the repercussions of that will still be felt years from now.

There are lots of countries that have made a success of Independence but if you look closer, they are all nations that voted for a split by well over 90% 'for', meaning the whole country wanted. That's far from the case this time.

There is a lot of information coming out from both sides, claims and counter claims, scaremongering, idiocy, lies, division blah blah blah that anyone left undecided hasn't got a clue which way to go so I don't envy them to have to make their mind up.

I'm (S) sick of the whole thing now and wish the vote was tomorrow so it would be over and done with.

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By *otlovefun42Couple over a year ago

Costa Blanca Spain...

"Their London offices will on paper become their head offices with the moving of a few hundred jobs. It's all scaremongering.

I haven't heard of any businesses saying that independence will lead to them moving north...

Maybe those who keep poopooing all the financial warnings they are getting from round the world should take off the blindfolds and see the disaster you are rushing towards.

On most of this debate I'm pretty much singing from the same hymn sheet as you, but the UK and the EU are two completely different animals.

One is a union that has survived and thrived for over 300 years and while it has had its up's and down's and England and Scotland have had a few spats in that time it has been of huge benefit to both. Also during that 300 years Scotland (and Wales and Northern Ireland) has had power devolved back to their own parliaments.

The EU is a monster that was created 60 odd years ago as a common market for coal and Steel between six country's. Since then it has evolved and grown into a 28 country superstate hell bent on centralising as much power as possible, eventually turning national parliaments into nothing more than regional assemblies.

I am all for cooperation between European country's and even some sort of union, but the current version is corrupt, undemocratic, and completely out of control. It does nothing, apart from a few cheap phone calls, for its people and is quite happy to destroy peoples lives in the name of its ultimate political goal. That is why I believe the EU must be destroyed.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

On STV at nine o'clock the day before the vote they are showing brave heart to try and get a yes vote. To balance this BBC are showing trainspotting.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"On STV at nine o'clock the day before the vote they are showing brave heart to try and get a yes vote. To balance this BBC are showing trainspotting. "

Sky are showing Bravespotting

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"On STV at nine o'clock the day before the vote they are showing brave heart to try and get a yes vote. To balance this BBC are showing trainspotting. "

I thought the bbc would be showing The Naked Civil Servant!

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

There was a bit on the PM show on R4 yesterday that made me smile. The China correspondent was asked what the Chinese think of the referendum. The answer was that they can't understand why a tiny place off Europe wants to make itself smaller.

The banks relocating their brass plates to London would leave the rest of the UK bailing them out again.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There was a bit on the PM show on R4 yesterday that made me smile. The China correspondent was asked what the Chinese think of the referendum. The answer was that they can't understand why a tiny place off Europe wants to make itself smaller.

The banks relocating their brass plates to London would leave the rest of the UK bailing them out again.

Banks were mostly bailed out by a loan from US fed reserve to be fair. Jail them like Iceland. The 'UK bailed out Scottish banks' thing is a well debunked myth. RBS is mostly London based and that's the part that failed.

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