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No to Scottish Independence
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By *ethnmelv OP Couple
over a year ago
Cardiff |
I am a Scot, I love being part of the UK. I love taking the piss of the English, Welsh & Irish and hate getting it back - but that is part of being British. We will lose so much with Independence for Scotland & they will gain so little....  |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
We don't get a vote though. Your locations suggest that you are Scot not in Scotland so you are without a vote too.
I think it will too close and if it's a no vote the question will be back on the agenda on 20th September.
It's very sad watching this divorce.
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paying for their own education ...prescriptions will float their boats |
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I'm sick hearing about it. Roll on 19th September and hopefully the politicians will get back in their respective boxes and get on with making the whole country a better place. |
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I watched the debate and all I could think was "Will both of you STFU and let the other one speak" |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"I watched the debate and all I could think was "Will both of you STFU and let the other one speak""
I switched it off after about two minutes.
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By *ethnmelv OP Couple
over a year ago
Cardiff |
I agree on the will you STFU! It is getting so crap. It bugs me that people may believe Alex Salmond & they have no comeback when he is proved to be wrong..., i live in England, but I'm Scottish & British and thats the way i want it to be!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The noblest prospect which a scotsman ever sees is the high road that leads him to england  |
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By *ethnmelv OP Couple
over a year ago
Cardiff |
; ) & wouldn't you miss the chance to say that  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Give the English the vote and you are guaranteed your independence. If you live in England and claim to be Scottish then either fuck off home or shut up.nothing worse than winging subsidised leaches |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm Scottish and I'm voting NO |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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William Adamson, politician, secretary of state for Scotland, labour.
We believe that government policy is to subordinate Scottish administration to Whitehall to a far greater extent than has ever been the case and to remove from Scotland practically the last vestige of independent government and nation hood and to have its centre in London
Nice
No wander that it is freedom from the corrupt cold dead grasping hand of westminster that every right thinking person longs for |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"William Adamson, politician, secretary of state for Scotland, labour.
We believe that government policy is to subordinate Scottish administration to Whitehall to a far greater extent than has ever been the case and to remove from Scotland practically the last vestige of independent government and nation hood and to have its centre in London
Nice
No wander that it is freedom from the corrupt cold dead grasping hand of westminster that every right thinking person longs for "
Adamson died in 1936. |
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Those of us in England remember that if Scotland decided to go for the yes vote, we are going to be landed with a tory dominated government forever more too.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Don't worry, with boris as your prime minister and the bold farage as his deputy you will be safe from all evil |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Don't worry, with boris as your prime minister and the bold farage as his deputy you will be safe from all evil "
You don't really get politics do you! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Oh i do, and it will be the funniest show in town, tuning into the news each night to see what boris and farage are upto next |
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"Give the English the vote and you are guaranteed your independence. If you live in England and claim to be Scottish then either fuck off home or shut up.nothing worse than winging subsidised leaches"
And this is everything I loathe about political discussions. Good work.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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But straight to the point |
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Id vote for anything that would keep Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon quiet, they are 2 of the most irritating people in the public eye. Having campaigned and marched in Edinburgh, Im for a No vote, as too little is known and understood about the impact and plans and I think remaining in the Uk is the wisest plan. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Salmond won the debate in my opinion.
Winning a battle doesn't mean he'll win the war though. |
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I'm British and proud of it, a yes vote wiuld mean i lose my nationality.
i do get a vote and i'll try and use it to vite no. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I am hoping for a no vote, like S Scotland as part of the UK, but not got a vote or any claim to one.
But was wondering IF it's a yes, and independence happens do expat Scots living in England have nationality rights to go back to Scotland at any time or are going to be migrants if they go home? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Damn this phone and large thumbs made a hash of that last post!
Hope it sort of makes sense. OP what I was trying to get at is if in 5 years time you want to swap Cardiff for someplace in an independent Scotland would you be Scottish or an immigrant? |
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By *xpresMan
over a year ago
Elland |
Salmond... Thank fk he isn't overlooking my life that man makes stupid look smart. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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YES here too. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Salmond... Thank fk he isn't overlooking my life that man makes stupid look smart. "
In my lifetime, I've never known Westminster to look anything but stupid!
But hey, Salmond will only be the interim leader untill the inaugural election.
Lets hope that there's some straight politicians to vote for, a transparent government & we'll all benefit in the long run!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If its a politician free from the taint of corruption you are looking for then you had best give the boy darling a very wide berth, remember him from the expenses scandal? Flip flopping his many properties year after year to screw cash out of the tax payers pockets |
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By *xpresMan
over a year ago
Elland |
"Salmond... Thank fk he isn't overlooking my life that man makes stupid look smart.
In my lifetime, I've never known Westminster to look anything but stupid!
But hey, Salmond will only be the interim leader untill the inaugural election.
Lets hope that there's some straight politicians to vote for, a transparent government & we'll all benefit in the long run!!"
It's not just Westminster it's government's all over the world |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I suspect that the rest of the world looks to westminster to get a few tips on pocket lining and corruption |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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If I wanted to live in Norway, I'd move to Norway. And revel in their 40% income tax.
Scotland isn't the only country to be worse off for having oil, as the Yes campaign would have you believe. The USA for one. Iraq, Libya for two more. In those oil rich states the only people getting rich and prosperous are those at the top. Everyone else makes do and lives regular lives without a fleet of Bentleys. There are still poor people, you just don't see them because they are cleared out of the way if you're lucky, or just left to forage and die in the streets. They don't have welfare systems, charities or food banks see.
And pocket lining isn't exclusive to Westminster, to believe so is just naïve. Just have a scroll through the MSP's register of interests, find those with directorships outside of politics and tell me that they are unbiased. |
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Salmond is on a power trip.....oh so were Royal Bank of Scotland ...i wonder what happened to them ???
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Personally, I hope the Yes vote gets it. Over the years, I have met more Scots who said they wanted independence from Whitehall, than those that didnt.
May I suggest Gordon Brown as the first Scottish Prime Minister? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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gordon brown ? lol , well if he wanted to sell off all our gold at rock bottom prices like he did to the english he is out of luck , if there ever was any its probably been stolen by westminster long ago lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Phew. It was a bit close with Andy Murray last night wasn't it. At least he gives us English something to cheer about tennis wise. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Like anything else it has its good and bad points |
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"Like anything else it has its good and bad points"
lawn tennis? |
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You can still take the loss out of the English and the welsh, unless it becomes against the law |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The political process is just spin on spin. They don't care about anyone apart from there own classes. Put them all in a pillowcase and give it a kick , who ever u kick will deserve it. Yes or No I have no doubt it will make little difference to us |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Just say noooooo !!! It ain't broke and it don't need fixing !! Leave things alone !! |
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Scotland vote YES and save the English tax-payer £millions in subsidising what has always been, and will always be, a much poorer neighbour.
Then when you've f****+ it all up yourselves, you'll still blame the English! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Scotland vote YES and save the English tax-payer £millions in subsidising what has always been, and will always be, a much poorer neighbour.
Then when you've f****+ it all up yourselves, you'll still blame the English! "
That's the biggest crock of shit I've ever read! You need to go and do some research buddy.
Get the facts before opening your mouth.
Oh and while you're at it , do you want the nuclear weapons on your doorstep? No? Cos I've got them on mine! That's where most of your taxes go . Illegal wars and keeping wmd. Come back with a better answer and folk like me might just take you seriously! |
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Unfortunately this debate has really soured the already fraught relationship between Scotland & the rest of the UK.
I truly believe Independence is inevitable for Scotland now, so its best its done sooner rather than later for all concerned.
No one truly believes Scotland will fail as an independent State, neither will the rUK.
However, one or both States may experience a little uncertainty over the short term but that's hardly insurmountable.
I wish an Independent Scotland all the best - but you aren't getting a Currency Union out of the rest of us.
No politician in their right mind would say to the UK electorate in 2015 "vote for me & I'll use your money to prop up a competitor State & to refund s bunch of foreign investors should their banks crash".
Independence is just that, the right to stand or fall on your own. Good luck and Bon Voyage Scotland, whether its in a month or 5yrs. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Frankly I'm sick to the back teeth of it now and just want it over one way or another.
I want to find a new job, but can't start looking til I find out the result and know whether that job will be in England or Scotland.
The Yes campaign is overly optimistic with their figures, and the No campaign pessimistic. The smart money is on fuck all changing for the vast majority, with only the top end getting richer as part of a thanks for opening up a new land to pillage.
The politics will be the same as Westminster's, just in Edinburgh. Same corporate lobbying, party donations and prospects for jobs after government souring policymaking.
What's actually needed is nationwide political reform, which unfortunately isn't going to happen until people realise their power and take to the streets. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Unfortunately this debate has really soured the already fraught relationship between Scotland & the rest of the UK.
I truly believe Independence is inevitable for Scotland now, so its best its done sooner rather than later for all concerned.
No one truly believes Scotland will fail as an independent State, neither will the rUK.
However, one or both States may experience a little uncertainty over the short term but that's hardly insurmountable.
I wish an Independent Scotland all the best - but you aren't getting a Currency Union out of the rest of us.
No politician in their right mind would say to the UK electorate in 2015 "vote for me & I'll use your money to prop up a competitor State & to refund s bunch of foreign investors should their banks crash".
Independence is just that, the right to stand or fall on your own. Good luck and Bon Voyage Scotland, whether its in a month or 5yrs."
 with much regret. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Said it from Day one.They wont go ,have not got the Balls. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Said it from Day one.They wont go ,have not got the Balls."
Afraid you're wrong. No voters are too complacent. Hence why there was only one No supporter question from the audience last night compared to all the others from Yes people. They couldn't be arsed to stick their hands up.
The No attitude seems to be "it's a forgone conclusion, I dont need to bother".
The Yes attitude seems to be "We're going to win, I'll vote anyway to make sure".
It's only the No campaign's to lose according to the polls. |
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If Scotland wants to be independent then fine. But if that is the case why try to join the EU?
If Scotland wants to be independent then great but get on with it but you can't have the pound ( as all it does is allows you to borrow at subsidised rates. Just as Greece has done with the Euro and the German people have had to pay it off).
On the subject of Europe don't forget the Spanish don't want you in. Neither do the French and now the Italian government is getting upset.
If it's a matter of "we don't want a Tory government" then tough. I didn't want Tony Blair but in a democracy there will always be winners and losers.
If you don't want nuclear substance then fine.You don't get the jobs and the money that goes with them.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"paying for their own education ...prescriptions will float their boats "
But will they ? |
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"Said it from Day one.They wont go ,have not got the Balls.
Afraid you're wrong. No voters are too complacent. Hence why there was only one No supporter question from the audience last night compared to all the others from Yes people. They couldn't be arsed to stick their hands up.
The No attitude seems to be "it's a forgone conclusion, I dont need to bother".
The Yes attitude seems to be "We're going to win, I'll vote anyway to make sure".
It's only the No campaign's to lose according to the polls. "
Agree the No voters are far to complacent , the debate last night was a shambles and uncomfortable to watch there are more areas that need discussed than the Currency issue.
We are both Scottish and proud but we are also British and will be voting NO .
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"Oh i do, and it will be the funniest show in town, tuning into the news each night to see what boris and farage are upto next "
A Miliband and Clegg coalition would be far funnier to watch, Laurel and Hardy or dumb and dumber springs to mind when you put those 2 together. I hope the scots do go for independance, so the Labour party will lose tons of votes come the general election in the UK.
The scots complain that they don't like tory governments, well many english people did'nt want to be stuck with Tony Blair and Gordon Brown in power for 13 years but thats what you have to put up with in a democracy. |
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Last weeks debate was also a shambles but Darling came out on top. The whole lot of it is bullshit. The stroking of egos does not make for a well run country regardless of which you're in.
They BOTH had a platform to use to their benefit and for our benefit and they BOTH failed. Instead of point scoring and insults, they should be doing the best for everyone. That does not include making a twat of yourself on national TV. I have faith in none of them.
The vitriol to come out of both sides over this makes me embarrassed to be Scottish.  |
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"Last weeks debate was also a shambles but Darling came out on top. The whole lot of it is bullshit. The stroking of egos does not make for a well run country regardless of which you're in.
They BOTH had a platform to use to their benefit and for our benefit and they BOTH failed. Instead of point scoring and insults, they should be doing the best for everyone. That does not include making a twat of yourself on national TV. I have faith in none of them.
The vitriol to come out of both sides over this makes me embarrassed to be Scottish. "
May i ask, have you noticed any rise in anti Englishness in recent weeks?
I ask because a Scots lady commenting on last nights debate said Salmond was "short on facts, long on Anglophobic rhetoric".
From the other side i have noticed a slight but definite rise in anti Scottishness recently, which really doesn't bode well.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Oh i do, and it will be the funniest show in town, tuning into the news each night to see what boris and farage are upto next
A Miliband and Clegg coalition would be far funnier to watch, Laurel and Hardy or dumb and dumber springs to mind when you put those 2 together. I hope the scots do go for independance, so the Labour party will lose tons of votes come the general election in the UK.
The scots complain that they don't like tory governments, well many english people did'nt want to be stuck with Tony Blair and Gordon Brown in power for 13 years but thats what you have to put up with in a democracy."
Loathed as I am to agree with you in political threads, you're right, the Yes campaign parrot the line about never getting the government they vote for. Forgetting that's how a FPTP voting system works in a democracy, and that someone will be disappointed. Also forgetting they had 13 years of labour they voted for with 2 Scottish chancellors and one Scottish PM. Where they had ample time to undo the conservatives work on privatisation and PFI, but instead chose to perpetuate it.
And to think that any independent Scottish government would be less in thrall to big business is just naïve. It gets them there, it keeps them there, it gives them jobs when they leave. |
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"Last weeks debate was also a shambles but Darling came out on top. The whole lot of it is bullshit. The stroking of egos does not make for a well run country regardless of which you're in.
They BOTH had a platform to use to their benefit and for our benefit and they BOTH failed. Instead of point scoring and insults, they should be doing the best for everyone. That does not include making a twat of yourself on national TV. I have faith in none of them.
The vitriol to come out of both sides over this makes me embarrassed to be Scottish.
May i ask, have you noticed any rise in anti Englishness in recent weeks?
I ask because a Scots lady commenting on last nights debate said Salmond was "short on facts, long on Anglophobic rhetoric".
From the other side i have noticed a slight but definite rise in anti Scottishness recently, which really doesn't bode well.
"
I've not paid a huge amount of attention to the content of the insults but I currently have most of my friends on FB hidden because I can't bear the chat from either side.
I think too many people are voting with their hearts rather than their heads. I think the white paper is full of shit. I think that no-one can give me an unbiased list of the pros and cons and all of the politicians on both sides are full of shit.
I've taken advice from the clever people at work and given the effects on our business depending on the outcome, they pay my wages so I shall take their advice. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Last weeks debate was also a shambles but Darling came out on top. The whole lot of it is bullshit. The stroking of egos does not make for a well run country regardless of which you're in.
They BOTH had a platform to use to their benefit and for our benefit and they BOTH failed. Instead of point scoring and insults, they should be doing the best for everyone. That does not include making a twat of yourself on national TV. I have faith in none of them.
The vitriol to come out of both sides over this makes me embarrassed to be Scottish.
May i ask, have you noticed any rise in anti Englishness in recent weeks?
I ask because a Scots lady commenting on last nights debate said Salmond was "short on facts, long on Anglophobic rhetoric".
From the other side i have noticed a slight but definite rise in anti Scottishness recently, which really doesn't bode well.
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I've noticed a bit yes. Mainly Ill informed bile about selling us oil and power at a higher price as apparently we'll come begging. |
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By *iewMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Angus & Findhorn |
I am a NO |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Last weeks debate was also a shambles but Darling came out on top. The whole lot of it is bullshit. The stroking of egos does not make for a well run country regardless of which you're in.
They BOTH had a platform to use to their benefit and for our benefit and they BOTH failed. Instead of point scoring and insults, they should be doing the best for everyone. That does not include making a twat of yourself on national TV. I have faith in none of them.
The vitriol to come out of both sides over this makes me embarrassed to be Scottish.
May i ask, have you noticed any rise in anti Englishness in recent weeks?
I ask because a Scots lady commenting on last nights debate said Salmond was "short on facts, long on Anglophobic rhetoric".
From the other side i have noticed a slight but definite rise in anti Scottishness recently, which really doesn't bode well.
I've noticed a bit yes. Mainly Ill informed bile about selling us oil and power at a higher price as apparently we'll come begging. "
You'd think basing an economy on selling oil and gas at a time when the world is doing its damnedest to get away from oil and the US is getting gas to Grangemouth cheaper than we can get it there from the North Sea maybe isn't the brightest idea. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Not to mention selling power. Estimates are all the renewables in Scotland, operating at full capacity at the same time would only generate enough to cover Scotland's average peak time usage. So no surplus to sell on. And there's connections to Europe that may be cheaper and have power when it's needed anyway.
And when they start telling oil and gas firms that they want an extra billion or so a year from them for the oil fund, on top of tax, that's when the firms may decide to cut back production and go somewhere cheaper. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
very quick to blame "westminster" for all their woes....
very quick to forget they have had their own "scottish parliament" for the last 20 years..... which deals with all thing local to scotland...
but hey... lets blame westminster!!! that fits the narrative!!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"very quick to blame "westminster" for all their woes....
very quick to forget they have had their own "scottish parliament" for the last 20 years..... which deals with all thing local to scotland...
but hey... lets blame westminster!!! that fits the narrative!!!"
Westminster controls the UKs money and cuts. The Scottish government only gets to try and share it out! Poverty is on the increase in the whole of the UK but we still manage to pay for wars and such. Makes no sense . Scotland creates enough money to see our own population do well. We get accused of leaching time and time again. But answer me this, if we are so much of a pain why is there even a better together campaign to keep us? If we cannot give you anything why the desperation to hold on? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Oh i do, and it will be the funniest show in town, tuning into the news each night to see what boris and farage are upto next
A Miliband and Clegg coalition would be far funnier to watch, Laurel and Hardy or dumb and dumber springs to mind when you put those 2 together. I hope the scots do go for independance, so the Labour party will lose tons of votes come the general election in the UK.
The scots complain that they don't like tory governments, well many english people did'nt want to be stuck with Tony Blair and Gordon Brown in power for 13 years but thats what you have to put up with in a democracy."
There are more people in London than in the whole of Scotland. Our votes don't even make a dent. |
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By *igSuki81Man
over a year ago
Retirement Village |
If scots wish to go then fair play to em, if they want to stay then fair do's, either way i luffs their accent   |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Oh i do, and it will be the funniest show in town, tuning into the news each night to see what boris and farage are upto next
A Miliband and Clegg coalition would be far funnier to watch, Laurel and Hardy or dumb and dumber springs to mind when you put those 2 together. I hope the scots do go for independance, so the Labour party will lose tons of votes come the general election in the UK.
The scots complain that they don't like tory governments, well many english people did'nt want to be stuck with Tony Blair and Gordon Brown in power for 13 years but thats what you have to put up with in a democracy.
There are more people in London than in the whole of Scotland. Our votes don't even make a dent."
The general election in the UK is done on a first past the post system. It does'nt matter that there are more people in London, as MP's are elected by region. Then the MP's that are elected in all the different regions and constituencies are counted to see which party has the most MP's. In most elections Labour always win most MP's seats in most parts of scotland. Labour also do well in many of the constituencies of London aswel. If Scotland goes for independence then Labour will lose all those MP's seats from scotalnd in future uk general elections.
It seems to be the first past the post system you have a problem with?
We did have a referendum to change to proportional representation lead by Nick Clegg but the people of the UK rejected it when it came to voting on it. |
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To be fair, Scottish votes haven't swung a UK General Election since the days of Andrew Bonar Law - and he was a Scottish Conservative. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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as in another thread...no difference.
promises here and there,lies,joy and despair...thats how our lives are and will be for a long time coming..without much change. |
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"To be fair, Scottish votes haven't swung a UK General Election since the days of Andrew Bonar Law - and he was a Scottish Conservative."
Really? Look at the amount of seats in Scotland that are Labour. 59 constituencies in the current Westminster parliament are from Scotland. Over 50 of them are held by Labour. That's a huge chunk of the Labour vote and without Scotland, there will probably never be another Labour govt in Westminster.
That's pretty telling. |
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The 67 years since the end of World War 2 have seen 18 General Elections to the Westminster Parliament, with the following outcomes:
1945 Labour govt (Attlee)
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Labour majority: 146
Labour majority without any Scottish MPs in Parliament: 143
NO CHANGE WITHOUT SCOTTISH MPS
1950 Labour govt (Attlee)
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Labour majority: 5
Without Scottish MPs: 2
NO CHANGE
1951 Conservative govt (Churchill/Eden)
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Conservative majority: 17
Without Scottish MPs: 16
NO CHANGE
1955 Conservative govt (Eden/Macmillan)
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Conservative majority: 60
Without Scottish MPs: 61
NO CHANGE
1959 Conservative govt (Macmillan/Douglas-Home)
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Conservative majority: 100
Without Scottish MPs: 109
NO CHANGE
1964 Labour govt (Wilson)
————————————
Labour majority: 4
Without Scottish MPs: -11
CHANGE: LABOUR MAJORITY TO CONSERVATIVE MAJORITY OF 1
(Con 280, Lab 274, Lib 5)
1966 Labour govt (Wilson)
————————————
Labour majority: 98
Without Scottish MPs: 77
NO CHANGE
1970 Conservative govt (Heath)
——————————————–
Conservative majority: 30
Without Scottish MPs: 55
NO CHANGE
1974 Minority Labour govt (Wilson)
————————————————
Labour majority: -33
Without Scottish MPs: -42
POSSIBLE CHANGE – LABOUR MINORITY TO CONSERVATIVE MINORITY
(Without Scots: Con 276, Lab 261, Lib 11, Others 16)
1974b Labour govt (Wilson/Callaghan)
—————————————————–
Labour majority: 3
Without Scottish MPs: -8
CHANGE: LABOUR MAJORITY TO LABOUR MINORITY
(Lab 278 Con 261 Lib 10 others 15)
1979 Conservative govt (Thatcher)
————————————————
Conservative majority: 43
Without Scottish MPs: 70
NO CHANGE
1983 Conservative govt (Thatcher)
————————————————
Conservative majority: 144
Without Scottish MPs: 174
NO CHANGE
1987 Conservative govt (Thatcher/Major)
——————————————————
Conservative majority: 102
Without Scottish MPs: 154
NO CHANGE
1992 Conservative govt (Major)
———————————————
Conservative majority: 21
Without Scottish MPs: 71
NO CHANGE
1997 Labour govt (Blair)
———————————–
Labour majority: 179
Without Scottish MPs: 139
NO CHANGE
2001 Labour govt (Blair)
———————————–
Labour majority: 167
Without Scottish MPs: 129
NO CHANGE
2005 Labour govt (Blair/Brown)
——————————————–
Labour majority: 66
Without Scottish MPs: 43
NO CHANGE
2010 Coalition govt (Cameron)
——————————————
Conservative majority: -38
Without Scottish MPs: 19
CHANGE: CON-LIB COALITION TO CONSERVATIVE MAJORITY |
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"The 67 years since the end of World War 2 have seen 18 General Elections to the Westminster Parliament, with the following outcomes:
1945 Labour govt (Attlee)
————————————
Labour majority: 146
Labour majority without any Scottish MPs in Parliament: 143
NO CHANGE WITHOUT SCOTTISH MPS
1950 Labour govt (Attlee)
————————————
Labour majority: 5
Without Scottish MPs: 2
NO CHANGE
1951 Conservative govt (Churchill/Eden)
——————————————————–
Conservative majority: 17
Without Scottish MPs: 16
NO CHANGE
1955 Conservative govt (Eden/Macmillan)
——————————————————–
Conservative majority: 60
Without Scottish MPs: 61
NO CHANGE
1959 Conservative govt (Macmillan/Douglas-Home)
————————————————————————
Conservative majority: 100
Without Scottish MPs: 109
NO CHANGE
1964 Labour govt (Wilson)
————————————
Labour majority: 4
Without Scottish MPs: -11
CHANGE: LABOUR MAJORITY TO CONSERVATIVE MAJORITY OF 1
(Con 280, Lab 274, Lib 5)
1966 Labour govt (Wilson)
————————————
Labour majority: 98
Without Scottish MPs: 77
NO CHANGE
1970 Conservative govt (Heath)
——————————————–
Conservative majority: 30
Without Scottish MPs: 55
NO CHANGE
1974 Minority Labour govt (Wilson)
————————————————
Labour majority: -33
Without Scottish MPs: -42
POSSIBLE CHANGE – LABOUR MINORITY TO CONSERVATIVE MINORITY
(Without Scots: Con 276, Lab 261, Lib 11, Others 16)
1974b Labour govt (Wilson/Callaghan)
—————————————————–
Labour majority: 3
Without Scottish MPs: -8
CHANGE: LABOUR MAJORITY TO LABOUR MINORITY
(Lab 278 Con 261 Lib 10 others 15)
1979 Conservative govt (Thatcher)
————————————————
Conservative majority: 43
Without Scottish MPs: 70
NO CHANGE
1983 Conservative govt (Thatcher)
————————————————
Conservative majority: 144
Without Scottish MPs: 174
NO CHANGE
1987 Conservative govt (Thatcher/Major)
——————————————————
Conservative majority: 102
Without Scottish MPs: 154
NO CHANGE
1992 Conservative govt (Major)
———————————————
Conservative majority: 21
Without Scottish MPs: 71
NO CHANGE
1997 Labour govt (Blair)
———————————–
Labour majority: 179
Without Scottish MPs: 139
NO CHANGE
2001 Labour govt (Blair)
———————————–
Labour majority: 167
Without Scottish MPs: 129
NO CHANGE
2005 Labour govt (Blair/Brown)
——————————————–
Labour majority: 66
Without Scottish MPs: 43
NO CHANGE
2010 Coalition govt (Cameron)
——————————————
Conservative majority: -38
Without Scottish MPs: 19
CHANGE: CON-LIB COALITION TO CONSERVATIVE MAJORITY"
With the required target being reduced by some 60 seats, and Labour losing some 50+ seats from Scotland, the obvious and glaring fact is that without Scotland, England and Wales are unlikely to see a Labour govt ever again. Which works for me. So you can write NO CHANGE as boldly as you wish, but look a little deeper into the figures and how they correlate.  |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
With the required target being reduced by some 60 seats, and Labour losing some 50+ seats from Scotland, the obvious and glaring fact is that without Scotland, England and Wales are unlikely to see a Labour govt ever again. Which works for me. So you can write NO CHANGE as boldly as you wish, but look a little deeper into the figures and how they correlate. "
pppppsssstttt........ the majority wouldn't need to be reduced by 60... it would only need to be reduced by 30 (half the number of seats that would no longer exist) so the numbers they put up are factually correct......
you actually owe them an apology....
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Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |
"
With the required target being reduced by some 60 seats, and Labour losing some 50+ seats from Scotland, the obvious and glaring fact is that without Scotland, England and Wales are unlikely to see a Labour govt ever again. Which works for me. So you can write NO CHANGE as boldly as you wish, but look a little deeper into the figures and how they correlate.
pppppsssstttt........ the majority wouldn't need to be reduced by 60... it would only need to be reduced by 30 (half the number of seats that would no longer exist) so the numbers they put up are factually correct......
you actually owe them an apology....
"
Actually I think you'll find a reduction of approx 2/3 so a reduction of 39/40 seats.
You need to get your facts right. Let's look at the last election as a good, and the most recent example.
The target was 326 seats with the Tories(307) falling 19 short of the target, with 1 seat in Scotland. But even if you'd have reduced the target by 30(your preferred half) the Tories (306) would have crossed the finishing line by 10 seats(they would have had 306 seats with the target of 296)or 20/21 if the overall total reduced by 2/3s. So a clear majority equals NO coalition govt. So in simple terms, Scotland's election results massively affected the last election.
Added to that, Labour would have lost 41 MPs and the Lib Dems 11 giving each side, respectively, 217 & 46 seats. With no SNP sitting in Westminster and the DUP sitting at 8 & 'Others' been 14, all others would have stood at 285 seats vs 306 Tory. A Tory majority of 21 (using your preferred figures of a 50% reduction).
Are we still convinced those 59 seats don't make a difference and never have?
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if there is a yes vote i wonder if the shetlands and orkneys will then want independence from scotland and take their share of the oil
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Mrs N had a great idea the other day which solved 2 problems. If Scotland does vote for independence they could just renage on their national debt. Just imagine wiping your credit card clean.
Then she had another brain wave. You know all these people wanting to come to South East UK from Calais. We let them in and give them a leaflet on how much better it is there with directions on how to get to Scotland and how much better it is there. How University education is Free, NHS prescriptions are free, how the scottish nationalists are building a socialist Utopia where lots of things are free.
2 problems solved. Immigration and Scots get their independence. Hey they don't even have to stay in the EU so that's another bonus to them.
Us poor old English will be so impoverished by it with the extra burden of the scottish national debt that we'll have to take on they wont want to stay here anyway.
This is satirical humour by the way folks. It isn't really what I want. I'd much prefer it if we stayed together. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
A taste of things to come?
"A former deputy leader of the SNP has warned "scaremongering" business leaders they face a "day of reckoning" if Scotland votes for independence.
Jim Sillars accused some of "subverting Scotland's democratic process" and called for oil firm BP to be nationalised after independence.
A number of banks and retail figures have made high-profile interventions in recent days."
Disgraceful. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"A taste of things to come?
"A former deputy leader of the SNP has warned "scaremongering" business leaders they face a "day of reckoning" if Scotland votes for independence.
Jim Sillars accused some of "subverting Scotland's democratic process" and called for oil firm BP to be nationalised after independence.
A number of banks and retail figures have made high-profile interventions in recent days."
Disgraceful."
I read the comments that the Yes campaign is accusing Number 10 of getting businesses to speak out and they feel that is wrong. However, my thought was that that is the job of our government if they don't want to see a split.
Isn't it better for business to say what it intends before the vote rather than all run like rats leaving a sinking ship after the vote?
I think business only gets the local vote in the City of London. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A taste of things to come?
"A former deputy leader of the SNP has warned "scaremongering" business leaders they face a "day of reckoning" if Scotland votes for independence.
Jim Sillars accused some of "subverting Scotland's democratic process" and called for oil firm BP to be nationalised after independence.
A number of banks and retail figures have made high-profile interventions in recent days."
Disgraceful."
I would say that this is the S.N.P. shitting themselves about what will happen to the Scottish economy if a 'Yes' vote is returned.
It's even been reported that food prices could be higher in an independent Scotland as at present, while it costs major suppliers / supermarkets etc more to distribute in Scotland, these costs are generally absorbed within their UK business. Some of the larger players seem to be suggesting that an Independent Scotland, being a foreign country, would mean that they would no longer be able to do so.
Personally speaking though, in the beginning I was firmly of the opinion that Scotland should remain as part of the Union, however, as the debate has continued, I've become so fed up with it, that I've changed my _iew and am of the opinion that they should just leave and get on with it.
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Lot of scare mongering gone, how many of our factories have gone to foreign shores, prices have increased wherever you are.
Fair play to the people of Scotland if they go for yes.
Good luck to them |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Well I will be saying a huge massive YES !!!
Not because I dislike any of the nations, but because I believe in Scotland and don't want to lose my identity
Jasmine x |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Well I will be saying a huge massive YES !!!
Not because I dislike any of the nations, but because I believe in Scotland and don't want to lose my identity
Jasmine x "
Have the Scots lost their identity over the last 300 years? I have never met one who has ever described themselves other than Scottish first and foremost.
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By *ynecplCouple
over a year ago
Newcastle upon Tyne |
I have said from the start that I hope Scotland vote yes, not because I want them to go but if it is a no vote then in 5/10 years from now the SNP will try again and so on until they get the decision they want.
My other fear which has come to pass is what the politicians in Westminster would start to promise (bribe you decide) in order to maintain the Union and how much it will cost.
The other thing the SNP seem be forgetting is should they get independence then they effectively become competitors and the rest of the UK will try to attract business South or not to set up in Scotland with promises of lower business rates/favourable tax arrangements. This will force the Scottish government to reciprocate and revenues fall all round. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"I have said from the start that I hope Scotland vote yes, not because I want them to go but if it is a no vote then in 5/10 years from now the SNP will try again and so on until they get the decision they want.
My other fear which has come to pass is what the politicians in Westminster would start to promise (bribe you decide) in order to maintain the Union and how much it will cost.
The other thing the SNP seem be forgetting is should they get independence then they effectively become competitors and the rest of the UK will try to attract business South or not to set up in Scotland with promises of lower business rates/favourable tax arrangements. This will force the Scottish government to reciprocate and revenues fall all round. "
I don't think it will be as long as 5-10 years. The vote is likely to be so close that the newer/bigger/better yes campaign will start on 20th September along with sniping that Westminster played dirty speaking to businesses.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Well I will be saying a huge massive YES !!!
Not because I dislike any of the nations, but because I believe in Scotland and don't want to lose my identity
Jasmine x
Have the Scots lost their identity over the last 300 years? I have never met one who has ever described themselves other than Scottish first and foremost.
"
That's is true, but I feel a no vote will leave me feeling that way. Plus Mr Prescott suggesting there should be a British football team, no tartan army . It's just the start. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Those of us in England remember that if Scotland decided to go for the yes vote, we are going to be landed with a tory dominated government forever more too. "
Bring it on.....and save a fortune on subsidising the Scots.
Why any of them would vote yes (if they could understand the consequences) beats me totally.
Good way to create another third world country! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A taste of things to come?
"A former deputy leader of the SNP has warned "scaremongering" business leaders they face a "day of reckoning" if Scotland votes for independence.
Jim Sillars accused some of "subverting Scotland's democratic process" and called for oil firm BP to be nationalised after independence.
A number of banks and retail figures have made high-profile interventions in recent days."
Disgraceful."
Will be interesting to see where they are going to find the £100bn or so required to nationalise BP, maybe Bank of Scotland will lend it to them...., no hang on, that went bust!
Just wish everyone would let the facts be articulated without resorting to name calling and petty point scoring and let the people of Scotland decide what they want to do and we all move on. |
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By *ynecplCouple
over a year ago
Newcastle upon Tyne |
"I don't think it will be as long as 5-10 years. The vote is likely to be so close that the newer/bigger/better yes campaign will start on 20th September along with sniping that Westminster played dirty speaking to businesses.
"
You are probably right, I for one am so sick of the whole debate if we could have a vote for Scotland to be thrown out of the Union and get it over with I would vote yes, perhaps as an earlier poster said it is a sign of the creeping anti-Scottish feeling which is certainly being to appear where I work. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
The 'Section 30' agreement in the Edinburgh Agreement is for a one-off referendum.
Both sides would have to agree to a rematch and I don't see that happening. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"The 'Section 30' agreement in the Edinburgh Agreement is for a one-off referendum.
Both sides would have to agree to a rematch and I don't see that happening."
I know but look how long the campaign has been going to get the referendum in the first place. That's the level of campaigning that will start up again, I think.
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By *ynecplCouple
over a year ago
Newcastle upon Tyne |
"The 'Section 30' agreement in the Edinburgh Agreement is for a one-off referendum.
Both sides would have to agree to a rematch and I don't see that happening."
You really believe that if the vote is 51/49% on the side of a no vote as the polls seem to be suggesting that the SNP will just walk away! |
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By *carineMan
over a year ago
Armthorpe, Doncaster |
A hat! A hat! My kingdom for George Galloway`s hat! |
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"
Have the Scots lost their identity over the last 300 years? I have never met one who has ever described themselves other than Scottish first and foremost.
"
I was born north of the border, grew up north of the border and live north of the border. I consider myself British. I cringe at the idea of being thought of as Scottish. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"
Have the Scots lost their identity over the last 300 years? I have never met one who has ever described themselves other than Scottish first and foremost.
I was born north of the border, grew up north of the border and live north of the border. I consider myself British. I cringe at the idea of being thought of as Scottish."
Why is that? I never heard anyone else say that.
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"Well I will be saying a huge massive YES !!!
Not because I dislike any of the nations, but because I believe in Scotland and don't want to lose my identity
Jasmine x "
Likewise i believe my my nation and a yes vote means i would lose my identity. |
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"
.Why is that? I never heard anyone else say that.
"
partly triumph of experience over hope!
but i have always considered myself British. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Jim Sillars accused some of "subverting Scotland's democratic process" and called for oil firm BP to be nationalised after independence.
How the hell is he going to "Nationalise" an international company,that has a turnover many times that of his "New Nation" |
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We are all human beings who cares where we are from, if we are gays, lesbians, Russian's, English or Scottish at the end of the day we are all going to meet our maker no pun intended |
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By *oxy_minxWoman
over a year ago
Scotland - Aberdeen |
I am British first and fore most! |
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I am a person who breathes and sleeps with feelings first and for most |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"The 'Section 30' agreement in the Edinburgh Agreement is for a one-off referendum.
Both sides would have to agree to a rematch and I don't see that happening.
You really believe that if the vote is 51/49% on the side of a no vote as the polls seem to be suggesting that the SNP will just walk away!"
" I know but look how long the campaign has been going to get the referendum in the first place. That's the level of campaigning that will start up again, I think."
I'm sure the Nats will be keen to keep things going but, as I said, both sides would have to agree and I doubt that'll happen. |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
What I am failing to understand in all this, is that if Scotland is such a basket case of an individual economy, why on earth are Cameron, Milliband, et al fighting so hard to keep it in the Union?
And I don't believe that prices will go up markedly, as competition will keep them low. Scotland will remain in the EU, as for the EU to not allow this would mean a loss of the Scottish Revenue (Est £500M pa), all EU citizens working in Scotland would potentially lose their right to remain there, and EU countries would lose the right to fish in Scottish waters. Scotland, in return for staying in the EU, would negotiate no VAT on goods, food,etc which is VAT free in the UK at the moment. So goods in the shops should not increase significantly, other than through profiteering... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=W6vDzf-wSbk
Watch & listen to this profound message from Scotlands answer to Monty Brewster. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"The 'Section 30' agreement in the Edinburgh Agreement is for a one-off referendum.
Both sides would have to agree to a rematch and I don't see that happening.
You really believe that if the vote is 51/49% on the side of a no vote as the polls seem to be suggesting that the SNP will just walk away!"
"Scotland's First Minister has said the independence vote is a "once in a generation" opportunity as he pledged not to bring back another referendum if Scots choose to remain in the UK."
From The Herald.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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[Removed by poster at 14/09/14 13:08:33] |
Reply privately (thread closed by moderator) | |
"Give the English the vote and you are guaranteed your independence. If you live in England and claim to be Scottish then either fuck off home or shut up.nothing worse than winging subsidised leaches
And this is everything I loathe about political discussions. Good work. "
Exactly. I'm stepping away from the keyboard. :-/ |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What I am failing to understand in all this, is that if Scotland is such a basket case of an individual economy, why on earth are Cameron, Milliband, et al fighting so hard to keep it in the Union?
And I don't believe that prices will go up markedly, as competition will keep them low. Scotland will remain in the EU, as for the EU to not allow this would mean a loss of the Scottish Revenue (Est £500M pa), all EU citizens working in Scotland would potentially lose their right to remain there, and EU countries would lose the right to fish in Scottish waters. Scotland, in return for staying in the EU, would negotiate no VAT on goods, food,etc which is VAT free in the UK at the moment. So goods in the shops should not increase significantly, other than through profiteering..."
They are fighting hard for the people of the uk of which over half of Scotland still wants,theres far too much bitterness now even between the Scots themselves and for the record one of us is A Scot and the other from northern England which also gets a shit ride from Westminster,We dont get free uni places or free prescriptions etc,were not being offered more powers etc for a no vote.
Respectfully i would urge anyone north of the border to think very hard about putting your jobs and houses at risk and ask yourselves how bad off are you really as Uk citizens |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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So what happens when the polling booths close ?
i have found a useful web page which gives an easy to understand basic guide to the count process etc.
dont want to post it here in case i end up on the nawty step
If anyone is interested search for tim johns dot org |
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If places like Guernsey jersey isle of man can do it im sure Scotland can. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
Betfair is so confident of a "No" vote in Thursday's Scottish independence referendum that it is already paying out to those who have staked money on it.
Despite polls ahead of the vote continuing to be close, betting markets have been overwhelmingly in favour of the Better Together camp winning on Thursday.
Betfair said this morning that gambling patterns indicate a 79pc likelihood of a "No" vote. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Betfair is so confident of a "No" vote in Thursday's Scottish independence referendum that it is already paying out to those who have staked money on it.
Despite polls ahead of the vote continuing to be close, betting markets have been overwhelmingly in favour of the Better Together camp winning on Thursday.
Betfair said this morning that gambling patterns indicate a 79pc likelihood of a "No" vote."
Appreciate your balanced and intelligent _iews but that was performed as a publicity stunt and they paid out approx 200k....not millions but good publicity |
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By *ezebelWoman
over a year ago
North of The Wall - youll need your vest |
You need to keep the Referendum comments on the main thread now. Cheers |
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