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Pay Divide between men & women
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I'm currently listening to Radio 2 debating the pay divide that allegedly still exists between men and women. The research shows that female managers in their 40's earn 23% less than male managers . Over all jobs, women earn 16% less on averages. Even though it's 44 years since the equal pay act came in. So the female would have to work into her 80's to earn the same as the male earnt into his 60's.
Historically I've always earnt more than any partner I have had. Wondered what your thoughts are and if you think the situation is improving ? |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
I know it exists. Often in subtle ways by changing a job title even though the duties and expectations remain the same.
Even for an equal opportunities employer a man replacing me, with less experience, was appointed at the top of the scale and given more favourable working terms and conditions.
That said, in my workplaces I always earn more than the men (and other women) as I'm in charge.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I have to say I've never seen this happen every job I've had women have been paid the same, even though their requirements have been lower than the males. That's a whole other thread though |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"We should earn more, we are better at most things.
Do you have evidence to back that up? 
I challenge you to a game of Connect4!"
Well I always used to beat my sis at that ! Bagsy be red! |
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It's one of the problems working in a culture where pay is often invisible, and thus only HR, managers and individual staff know all/some of the detail. Unless staff share their pay info then they don't know that there may be illegal practices going on.
As for terming jobs differently, so that equivalent jobs seemingly sound different, letting pay differential exist and continue, that is abhorrent. Companies should be more forced by law to justify any discrepancies annually to employment controllers externally - preferably government agencies. Realise some want less red tape and government than others, but in the race to the bottom - or to prevent it - there has to be some balancing elements within a system that is open to abuse.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I know it exists. Often in subtle ways by changing a job title even though the duties and expectations remain the same.
Even for an equal opportunities employer a man replacing me, with less experience, was appointed at the top of the scale and given more favourable working terms and conditions.
That said, in my workplaces I always earn more than the men (and other women) as I'm in charge.
"
I knew this comment would be made here lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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You don't get what you don't ask for. Men are probably more ready to ask for the wages of a ego manic fantasist. Whilst women perhaps labor under the fallacy that they should only ask for what they're worth.
Could that be the answer?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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My experience is that women most often manage the ground floor and that more women are employed over men in those kinds of environments, but more often, men manage them from the boardroom. That's probably why sales and marketing is predominantly male and why a great deal of sole traders in Liverpool are men working in some form of labour.
Equality is a fucking sham if you're a guy looking for a regular job, but according to friends, it's worse in the States for women. Men run the show there and you don't get a job unless you can show a little tit and handle flirting.
I really need to move there and start up my own version of Charlie's Angels  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It also exists with women working full time and those working part time. I recently discovered that a 21 year old colleague fresh out of college with no experience (who I was training) was earning more per hour than me. I was fuming!! I spoke to my boss and it did get sorted out. A lot of companies take the piss with women and especially those who need to work part time |
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"Another reason why I am a feminist. Those labouring under the delusion that we are equal need to get their heads out of the sand. "
as a bloke and therefore not able to be a feminist I concur fully..
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I agree, and maybe interviewers should stop asking people what salary they expect from the get-go. That way nobody earns less to put in the same quality of work as the people sitting next to them.
But hey, when I was working at Associated Press, I did the same job as one guy who my boss hated, and on top of that, I did two other jobs and got £7 per hour.
Neither him nor my manager would tell me how much I could have been earning, despite my boss making the comment that he was horribly overpaid. This guy also refused to say how much he made.
So it's not just inequality between women and men, it's inequality all over, which is why I think sexism at work is despicable, but I won't raise it above my own problems. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Another reason why I am a feminist. Those labouring under the delusion that we are equal need to get their heads out of the sand.
as a bloke and therefore not able to be a feminist I concur fully.."
White people we're civil rights advocates. I'm a bloke too and have read and agreed with a fair amount of feminist literature. If I didn't my wife would kill me lol  Just kidding |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
So it's not just inequality between women and men, it's inequality all over, which is why I think sexism at work is despicable, but I won't raise it above my own problems."
I completely agree. I've watched a manager give a member of their team just one person to supervise. That meant they got paid more than others for doing that.To me , it was ridiculous and engineered.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
So it's not just inequality between women and men, it's inequality all over, which is why I think sexism at work is despicable, but I won't raise it above my own problems.
I completely agree. I've watched a manager give a member of their team just one person to supervise. That meant they got paid more than others for doing that.To me , it was ridiculous and engineered. "
EXACTLY!!! And what hurts to people on minimum wage is being worked to the bone and not being able to get out of arrears when others sit pretty and tell them what to do.
When a manager can't even manage their own workload and staff properly, it's an insult to every drop they've sweated and every holiday/weekend they've worked when they make such a move. |
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
My old boss was female. She interacted differently with the male and female team members - but never visibly enough to prove favouritism. She was responsible for pay reviews and bonuses.
65% of the people doing my role are female. 35% didn't receive a pay rise or bonus for three years. 65% did, of varying amounts.
There have been three promotions recently, none of the positions were communicated directly to any of the male members of the team - we didn't know about it until the appointments had been made.
The people promoted now do less work and have less responsibility than before - for an extra £15-20k a year and a much nicer car they rarely have to drive.
She's no longer my boss. Thank fuck.
Inequality exists - but it works both ways.
A |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We should earn more, we are better at most things.
*snort*
Most of you can't take a piss without getting it on the floor.
Better? At most things?
Better at being totally delusional "
I challenge you to piss standing where we stand and see if you can keep it off the floor |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We should earn more, we are better at most things.
*snort*
Most of you can't take a piss without getting it on the floor.
Better? At most things?
Better at being totally delusional
I challenge you to piss standing where we stand and see if you can keep it off the floor"
I'll have you know that every time I've gone for a piss at work, I've sat down to do it.
For about 15 minutes at a time.
To prevent dribble.
And overwork. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"I have to say I've never seen this happen every job I've had women have been paid the same, even though their requirements have been lower than the males. That's a whole other thread though "
What do you mean their requirements have been lower? |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"I wonder the reasoning behind this? Do men expect more,do women accept less? "
Both of those things contribute to the imbalance.
Others are things like the Birmingham Council case where they judged jobs mostly held by women to be of lesser pay value than jobs held mostly by men.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I wonder the reasoning behind this? Do men expect more,do women accept less?
Both of those things contribute to the imbalance.
Others are things like the Birmingham Council case where they judged jobs mostly held by women to be of lesser pay value than jobs held mostly by men.
"
Let's not forget the difference also between seasoned employees and newbies. Most jobs today, you have to be willing to start out with the bare minimum and accept that it might be a very long time before you're paid what you're worth. You can either accept it or stay unemployed. Either way, you will suffer indignity of being someones fool.
A friend of mine has just taken a £4,000 cut to his salary just to keep his job and he wasn't even earning over 20. That hits hard when you earn less, especially when you're saving to buy a house.
He is now working with people doing the same job who didn't take a cut and he only recently got a promotion, meaning that he earns even less than he did when he was doing an easier job.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm always careful to keep quiet about the Glam side of life at interviews just in case they adjust the pay scale accordingly. I also try to hide being a nincompoop, too  "
Which one is hardest to hide ? |
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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago
Over the rainbow, under the bridge |
"My old boss was female. She interacted differently with the male and female team members - but never visibly enough to prove favouritism. She was responsible for pay reviews and bonuses.
65% of the people doing my role are female. 35% didn't receive a pay rise or bonus for three years. 65% did, of varying amounts.
There have been three promotions recently, none of the positions were communicated directly to any of the male members of the team - we didn't know about it until the appointments had been made.
The people promoted now do less work and have less responsibility than before - for an extra £15-20k a year and a much nicer car they rarely have to drive.
She's no longer my boss. Thank fuck.
Inequality exists - but it works both ways.
A"
But far far more against women. Every fact and statistic shows this year on year for the past 40+ years since the Equal Pay Act. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I work in the NHS so since 2004/5 equal pay has pretty much been sorted out by bringing in national standard pay bands.
Clearly easier to do with a large national organisation that a private finance or consulting firm, clearly. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I often believe that equality was eventually accepted only to be manipulated into a twisted gimmick only to leave the majority equally fucked as each other.
The more one percentage earns, the less there is for another to earn. If you can comfortably live off the interest on your wealth, yet you carry on making more and more, where else is that money ever going to go? |
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"It's one of the problems working in a culture where pay is often invisible, and thus only HR, managers and individual staff know all/some of the detail. Unless staff share their pay info then they don't know that there may be illegal practices going on.
As for terming jobs differently, so that equivalent jobs seemingly sound different, letting pay differential exist and continue, that is abhorrent. Companies should be more forced by law to justify any discrepancies annually to employment controllers externally - preferably government agencies. Realise some want less red tape and government than others, but in the race to the bottom - or to prevent it - there has to be some balancing elements within a system that is open to abuse.
"
Transparency is the main problem here. You are more likely to know your friends sex life than their salary (even outside fab).
However, a salary package is far more than purely money. Mothers will often accept a role close to home with better hours that offers less money. Fathers will often travel further and work longer hours in similar roles and are given a higher financial reward as that is considered their contribution to the family.
The finance is different but the overall benefits mean that they are similar. Many women choose this because they are far better suited to looking after children and hubby agrees. It would be just as reasonable if it was the other way around. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
However, a salary package is far more than purely money. Mothers will often accept a role close to home with better hours that offers less money. Fathers will often travel further and work longer hours in similar roles and are given a higher financial reward as that is considered their contribution to the family.
The finance is different but the overall benefits mean that they are similar. "
Yep good point. It's the whole package that makes a difference. |
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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago
Over the rainbow, under the bridge |
"It's one of the problems working in a culture where pay is often invisible, and thus only HR, managers and individual staff know all/some of the detail. Unless staff share their pay info then they don't know that there may be illegal practices going on.
As for terming jobs differently, so that equivalent jobs seemingly sound different, letting pay differential exist and continue, that is abhorrent. Companies should be more forced by law to justify any discrepancies annually to employment controllers externally - preferably government agencies. Realise some want less red tape and government than others, but in the race to the bottom - or to prevent it - there has to be some balancing elements within a system that is open to abuse.
Transparency is the main problem here. You are more likely to know your friends sex life than their salary (even outside fab).
However, a salary package is far more than purely money. Mothers will often accept a role close to home with better hours that offers less money. Fathers will often travel further and work longer hours in similar roles and are given a higher financial reward as that is considered their contribution to the family.
The finance is different but the overall benefits mean that they are similar. Many women choose this because they are far better suited to looking after children and hubby agrees. It would be just as reasonable if it was the other way around. "
I disagree that women are better suited to care for children. Men are equally as good. |
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"
I disagree that women are better suited to care for children. Men are equally as good. "
I tend to agree but I have found that some mothers can be offended when a man says this. Fathers who look after children don't get enough time to be offended. |
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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago
Over the rainbow, under the bridge |
"
I disagree that women are better suited to care for children. Men are equally as good.
I tend to agree but I have found that some mothers can be offended when a man says this. Fathers who look after children don't get enough time to be offended. "
Children need to be cared for by the same regular adults (it doesn't need to be a sole care giver).
These can be either parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles. But they need to be the same small group not bounced around from pillar to post.
Some sociologists have claimed primary care should be done by mothers only - usually at a time of high unemployment so as to leave jobs open to men.
At other times women have been told that putting children in nursery and going to work was best for their kids. This was at a time when women were needed by society to work.
Child psychologists know that children simply need loving care and guidance from adults they know and trust. Gender is irrelevant. |
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