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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
I've been watching this story unfold for a few days now and I am at a loss to know what to think.
Are we going backwards or has America (and the West) remained largely unchanged about race?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Racism tolerance and bigotry all increase during recessions so yes i think we are going backwards and have been for sometime. I would hope that the tide will turn but sadly I expect to see things get much worse before it does. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It's far from unchanged about race, lickety. The are still backwards idiots, but most people in America aren't backwards, hell even most in the south aren't backwards. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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We live in a country which for all it's faults, is one of the most ethnically diverse and tolerant. Although the USA is the worlds richest country also has a vast number of its population living in poverty stricken ghettoes. Black and white do not integrate in the same way as in the uk. This leads to the mistrust and rioting which has taken place recently |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The thing is, on a daily basis the racial divide in the states isn't what most in the uk seem to think. And it's even less now than it was a decade ago. Also, the uk isn't as tolerant as many seem to think. When i applied to uni, i applied to bradford as well as hull. The reaction that i got to that from *some* of my British friends isn't postable on this thread. It's also easily seen with some memes shared via certain groups on social media like fb |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Its ecomonic segregation.
I have family live only a mile or two away,in Clayton..a very weathy nigh on 100% white suburb.
Its so weathy there are no pavements,when I said to my aunt I was going to walk 1/4mile to the shops she told me not to."If people see you walking they will call the police"
At one time East Saint Louis was just about the most dangerous suburb in US.
To be poor in a land of plenty is hard,and for you to he blamed when the system is rigged against you from the start .And at top the billionaires who have bought the system are safe hehind thier walls uneffected because the social atomistion never will reach thier door |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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America has not changed I went on holiday to New York a few years back. I spent a few days in Brooklyn and did not see anybody who was not black. I was out and about doing things as well.
I had never seen anything like that.
That Travon Martin case said it all to me.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I was shocked that two reporters were arrested for trying to tell the news story. In the land of the free reporting is a crime now.
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That shocked me, too, and heads will roll for it. It won't happen fast because things rarely do, but they will roll nonetheless. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I was shocked that two reporters were arrested for trying to tell the news story. In the land of the free reporting is a crime now.
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Thats why I think that not much has changed in certain areas of the states
You can't hide whats happened anyway,the whole story was reported on twitter as it happened,its just tragic,and I think attempting to put a curfew on the town did nothing more than fan the flames of grief and anger
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"I was shocked that two reporters were arrested for trying to tell the news story. In the land of the free reporting is a crime now.
Thats why I think that not much has changed in certain areas of the states
You can't hide whats happened anyway,the whole story was reported on twitter as it happened,its just tragic,and I think attempting to put a curfew on the town did nothing more than fan the flames of grief and anger
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Indeed. Locking up a town for being black is what it looks like.
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
the situation is a bit more confusing because the person who was shot that started this whole mess may have been part of an attempted robbery earlier...
however....
the way the police have dealt with it since has been extreme, having the police decked out in military ammo for a peaceful protest was over the top... rubber bullets at journalists and tv camera crews is excessive... |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"the situation is a bit more confusing because the person who was shot that started this whole mess may have been part of an attempted robbery earlier...
however....
the way the police have dealt with it since has been extreme, having the police decked out in military ammo for a peaceful protest was over the top... rubber bullets at journalists and tv camera crews is excessive... "
My difficult in how to respond to this is that extreme responses seem to be becoming more of a norm. What is a reasonable response now?
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
My difficult in how to respond to this is that extreme responses seem to be becoming more of a norm. What is a reasonable response now?
"
I think that is the question everyone is now asking as this is way beyond the old "riot policing" that we have seen...
it feels as if the police have has "itchy" fingers in they were very quick to respond excessively to the original peaceful protest and that is what made this worse.... tear gas, smoke bombs and rubber bullets....
the response from the police then got the response of looting from a few morons.. which made the issue worse..... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've been watching this story unfold for a few days now and I am at a loss to know what to think.
Are we going backwards or has America (and the West) remained largely unchanged about race?
"
That's one way of looking at it although so many people get shot over there including officers there will always be someone who is trigger happy as you will always get looting teams who will take advantage of unrest.
Didn't a similar situation happen in Tottenham a year or so back? I wouldn't make the assumption all Londoners were racist just on that incident. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Now the National Guard are there!
Michael Brown shot 6 times.
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Evidently, the autopsy reveals that the account given by the eyewitness wasn't accurate.
And the black panthers are there as well.
Powder keg is not a strong enough term. |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"I've been watching this story unfold for a few days now and I am at a loss to know what to think.
Are we going backwards or has America (and the West) remained largely unchanged about race?
That's one way of looking at it although so many people get shot over there including officers there will always be someone who is trigger happy as you will always get looting teams who will take advantage of unrest.
Didn't a similar situation happen in Tottenham a year or so back? I wouldn't make the assumption all Londoners were racist just on that incident. "
Tottenham in 2011 wasn't locked down and put under curfew. I live here.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've been watching this story unfold for a few days now and I am at a loss to know what to think.
Are we going backwards or has America (and the West) remained largely unchanged about race?
That's one way of looking at it although so many people get shot over there including officers there will always be someone who is trigger happy as you will always get looting teams who will take advantage of unrest.
Didn't a similar situation happen in Tottenham a year or so back? I wouldn't make the assumption all Londoners were racist just on that incident.
Tottenham in 2011 wasn't locked down and put under curfew. I live here.
"
So that makes it not racist opposed to Ferguson? |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"I've been watching this story unfold for a few days now and I am at a loss to know what to think.
Are we going backwards or has America (and the West) remained largely unchanged about race?
That's one way of looking at it although so many people get shot over there including officers there will always be someone who is trigger happy as you will always get looting teams who will take advantage of unrest.
Didn't a similar situation happen in Tottenham a year or so back? I wouldn't make the assumption all Londoners were racist just on that incident.
Tottenham in 2011 wasn't locked down and put under curfew. I live here.
So that makes it not racist opposed to Ferguson?"
Not at all. I have spoken a lot about the racism here, including in the 2011 riots and the reporting that followed.
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It's insane and scary that there are police over there with loads of military equipment, dressed in camouflage and everything.
Things in the UK aren't perfect, but I'm glad our police aren't dressed up as soldiers and driving around in tanks. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I've been watching this story unfold for a few days now and I am at a loss to know what to think.
Are we going backwards or has America (and the West) remained largely unchanged about race?
That's one way of looking at it although so many people get shot over there including officers there will always be someone who is trigger happy as you will always get looting teams who will take advantage of unrest.
Didn't a similar situation happen in Tottenham a year or so back? I wouldn't make the assumption all Londoners were racist just on that incident.
Tottenham in 2011 wasn't locked down and put under curfew. I ottenham in 2011 wasn't locked down and put under curfewlive here.
So that makes it not racist opposed to Ferguson?
Not at all. I have spoken a lot about the racism here, including in the 2011 riots and the reporting that followed.
"
Ok so I am at a loss why you mentioned the curfew then? In reality the curfew has curtailed the actions of the yobs and looters that sadly devastated London. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Have to say , there are no marches when over 60 people get shot in robberies or drive bys by their own.....So as previously said by ex black residents... Ferguson needs to get its shit together!! |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"
That's one way of looking at it although so many people get shot over there including officers there will always be someone who is trigger happy as you will always get looting teams who will take advantage of unrest.
Didn't a similar situation happen in Tottenham a year or so back? I wouldn't make the assumption all Londoners were racist just on that incident.
Tottenham in 2011 wasn't locked down and put under curfew. I ottenham in 2011 wasn't locked down and put under curfewlive here.
So that makes it not racist opposed to Ferguson?
Not at all. I have spoken a lot about the racism here, including in the 2011 riots and the reporting that followed.
Ok so I am at a loss why you mentioned the curfew then? In reality the curfew has curtailed the actions of the yobs and looters that sadly devastated London."
I only mentioned the curfew on the basis that Ferguson appears to be on lock down almost from day one for a black area. Tottenham wasn't.
My OP didn't single America out as racist.
As far as I know no one was arrested for reporting the news during the UK riots. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
That's one way of looking at it although so many people get shot over there including officers there will always be someone who is trigger happy as you will always get looting teams who will take advantage of unrest.
Didn't a similar situation happen in Tottenham a year or so back? I wouldn't make the assumption all Londoners were racist just on that incident.
Tottenham in 2011 wasn't locked down and put under curfew. I ottenham in 2011 wasn't locked down and put under curfewlive here.
So that makes it not racist opposed to Ferguson?
Not at all. I have spoken a lot about the racism here, including in the 2011 riots and the reporting that followed.
Ok so I am at a loss why you mentioned the curfew then? In reality the curfew has curtailed the actions of the yobs and looters that sadly devastated London.
I only mentioned the curfew on the basis that Ferguson appears to be on lock down almost from day one for a black area. Tottenham wasn't.
My OP didn't single America out as racist.
As far as I know no one was arrested for reporting the news during the UK riots."
We made a complete fuckup in London in 2011 the looting was dispicable the looters were not clamped down on and it was appaulingly handled.
With Ferguson its not a black area its a poor area where the protestors are congregating and the police are going to where the protestors are not where black people live I do get the feeling you have some agenda on this or that's the way its coming across. As for reporters arrested in the UK? Its happened I don't think the UK or us police have quotas of journalists to arrest.
So would you suggest the police in a pussy foot manner and let those who are intent on capitaliseing loot local businesses then or should the police defend local businesses by using a curfew? After all its far more civilised protesting in daytime where criminal activities are less likely to be covered by it. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
Didn't a similar situation happen in Tottenham a year or so back? I wouldn't make the assumption all Londoners were racist just on that incident. "
the only real similarity between the two if you want to call it that was that an unarmed black person was shot by the police, and that is what started the situation.....
there are going to be lots of questions that come out of ferguson... the police's treatment of unarmed protesters and their extreme reaction...
also the polices relationship with the media and how they have arrested more than a couple... fired at a few, and tried to obstruct the way it has been reported......
be interesting to see what happens tonight because what we have seen so far no one trusts the police to deal with their own investigaton....
its one thing having the police on the streets, completely another having the military!! |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"
That's one way of looking at it although so many people get shot over there including officers there will always be someone who is trigger happy as you will always get looting teams who will take advantage of unrest.
Didn't a similar situation happen in Tottenham a year or so back? I wouldn't make the assumption all Londoners were racist just on that incident.
Tottenham in 2011 wasn't locked down and put under curfew. I ottenham in 2011 wasn't locked down and put under curfewlive here.
So that makes it not racist opposed to Ferguson?
Not at all. I have spoken a lot about the racism here, including in the 2011 riots and the reporting that followed.
Ok so I am at a loss why you mentioned the curfew then? In reality the curfew has curtailed the actions of the yobs and looters that sadly devastated London.
I only mentioned the curfew on the basis that Ferguson appears to be on lock down almost from day one for a black area. Tottenham wasn't.
My OP didn't single America out as racist.
As far as I know no one was arrested for reporting the news during the UK riots.
We made a complete fuckup in London in 2011 the looting was dispicable the looters were not clamped down on and it was appaulingly handled.
With Ferguson its not a black area its a poor area where the protestors are congregating and the police are going to where the protestors are not where black people live I do get the feeling you have some agenda on this or that's the way its coming across. As for reporters arrested in the UK? Its happened I don't think the UK or us police have quotas of journalists to arrest.
So would you suggest the police in a pussy foot manner and let those who are intent on capitaliseing loot local businesses then or should the police defend local businesses by using a curfew? After all its far more civilised protesting in daytime where criminal activities are less likely to be covered by it."
It doesn't much matter what I say. Once the thought that I must have an agenda is there I have found my arguments are read in one way only.
I abhor violence. I don't support looting but I do support the right to peaceful protest. I don't think the police actions have exacerbated protests and that has enabled them to be used to create more violence and mayhem.
On that note I am off to my peaceful bed.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Didn't a similar situation happen in Tottenham a year or so back? I wouldn't make the assumption all Londoners were racist just on that incident.
the only real similarity between the two if you want to call it that was that an unarmed black person was shot by the police, and that is what started the situation.....
there are going to be lots of questions that come out of ferguson... the police's treatment of unarmed protesters and their extreme reaction...
also the polices relationship with the media and how they have arrested more than a couple... fired at a few, and tried to obstruct the way it has been reported......
be interesting to see what happens tonight because what we have seen so far no one trusts the police to deal with their own investigaton....
its one thing having the police on the streets, completely another having the military!!"
So its fair to say the reason for it all starting was very similar indeed?
The way its been dealt with is different though granted the Americans have gone too far one way with people who actively chose to come out at night to protest. In the UK a softly approach went on and the people in the firing line were shop owners who really didn't want to be there to try and save their businesses but got attacked and looted all the same. I am not saying either are right but nobody has forced people out of their houses to protest and confront the police at night.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
That's one way of looking at it although so many people get shot over there including officers there will always be someone who is trigger happy as you will always get looting teams who will take advantage of unrest.
Didn't a similar situation happen in Tottenham a year or so back? I wouldn't make the assumption all Londoners were racist just on that incident.
Tottenham in 2011 wasn't locked down and put under curfew. I ottenham in 2011 wasn't locked down and put under curfewlive here.
So that makes it not racist opposed to Ferguson?
Not at all. I have spoken a lot about the racism here, including in the 2011 riots and the reporting that followed.
Ok so I am at a loss why you mentioned the curfew then? In reality the curfew has curtailed the actions of the yobs and looters that sadly devastated London.
I only mentioned the curfew on the basis that Ferguson appears to be on lock down almost from day one for a black area. Tottenham wasn't.
My OP didn't single America out as racist.
As far as I know no one was arrested for reporting the news during the UK riots.
We made a complete fuckup in London in 2011 the looting was dispicable the looters were not clamped down on and it was appaulingly handled.
With Ferguson its not a black area its a poor area where the protestors are congregating and the police are going to where the protestors are not where black people live I do get the feeling you have some agenda on this or that's the way its coming across. As for reporters arrested in the UK? Its happened I don't think the UK or us police have quotas of journalists to arrest.
So would you suggest the police in a pussy foot manner and let those who are intent on capitaliseing loot local businesses then or should the police defend local businesses by using a curfew? After all its far more civilised protesting in daytime where criminal activities are less likely to be covered by it.
It doesn't much matter what I say. Once the thought that I must have an agenda is there I have found my arguments are read in one way only.
I abhor violence. I don't support looting but I do support the right to peaceful protest. I don't think the police actions have exacerbated protests and that has enabled them to be used to create more violence and mayhem.
On that note I am off to my peaceful bed.
"
I was pointing out some pretty obvious points I have no agenda I just pointed out it didn't look that way with some points you were making. I didn't say you supported violence what I brought in was a similar comparison and how people outside London could make the same assumption about the London riots in 2011. |
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