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The union jack
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Union flag.
 "
It is often stated that the Union Flag should only be described as the Union Jack when flown in the bows of a warship, but this is a relatively recent idea. From early in its life the Admiralty itself frequently referred to the flag as the Union Jack, whatever its use, and in 1902 an Admiralty Circular announced that Their Lordships had decided that either name could be used officially. Such use was given Parliamentary approval in 1908 when it was stated that “the Union Jack should be regarded as the National flag”. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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But we're not in the navy, therefore we are not governed by any policy that has come from the admiralty. The union flag is not the flag of the Royal Navy, that would be the Ensign. |
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By *odareyouMan
over a year ago
not far from iceland,,,,,, tescos is nearer though :-) (near leeds) |
"Why not just replace the blue with green - from the Welsh flag...?"
Red and green should not be seen. 
..it'd. Be a Bugger for those colour blind folks as well  |
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"Why not just replace the blue with green - from the Welsh flag...?"
A better design would be the English Flag with a Red Welsh Dragon imposed on the centre, a bit like the Ulster flag but a dragon instead of a red hand.
|
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"Why not just replace the blue with green - from the Welsh flag...?
A better design would be the English Flag with a Red Welsh Dragon imposed on the centre, a bit like the Ulster flag but a dragon instead of a red hand.
"
When I was young, I thought it was a poodle.
But then I made my mind up that it is the dragon that St George killed and he stuck it on the Welsh flag to remind them that they are ruled by England |
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"Why not just replace the blue with green - from the Welsh flag...?
A better design would be the English Flag with a Red Welsh Dragon imposed on the centre, a bit like the Ulster flag but a dragon instead of a red hand.
When I was young, I thought it was a poodle.
But then I made my mind up that it is the dragon that St George killed and he stuck it on the Welsh flag to remind them that they are ruled by England "
If i recall my mythology correctly, the Welsh Red Dragon was 'slain' by a White Dragon and (bit hazy on this bit) somehow ended up under a mountain somewhere in Wales where it will spring forth in the hour of Welsh need.
I suspect it stems from the defeat of the Welsh Princes by the House of Wessex under King Æthelstan whose Royal banner was the White Dragon of Wessex. |
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"Why not just replace the blue with green - from the Welsh flag...?
A better design would be the English Flag with a Red Welsh Dragon imposed on the centre, a bit like the Ulster flag but a dragon instead of a red hand.
When I was young, I thought it was a poodle.
But then I made my mind up that it is the dragon that St George killed and he stuck it on the Welsh flag to remind them that they are ruled by England
If i recall my mythology correctly, the Welsh Red Dragon was 'slain' by a White Dragon and (bit hazy on this bit) somehow ended up under a mountain somewhere in Wales where it will spring forth in the hour of Welsh need.
I suspect it stems from the defeat of the Welsh Princes by the House of Wessex under King Æthelstan whose Royal banner was the White Dragon of Wessex."
Bloody hell, I hope they find it. There's a lot of mountains in Wales |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think the new scottish flag should be called
The anti...union jock.....
It will be tartan
The currency should be the groat....and the central bank can be Royal Bank of Scotland
Which was a small arrogant little Scottish bank which thought it could grow very big very quickly by lending to anyone with a pulse.....we the british tax payers bailed. It out
So you independent scottish lot can use it as your central bank and keep all your shit loans and call them your assets!
See how long you last |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Union flag.
oh I see so you numptys did,nt know what I meant..lol,,
shove yer union flag  hurry up and go then, we can get on with building the wall again "
did last night not mean anything to you! |
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"Union flag.
oh I see so you numptys did,nt know what I meant..lol,,
shove yer union flag hurry up and go then, we can get on with building the wall again
did last night not mean anything to you!"
Ha ha, you told me you like it up against the wall  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Union flag.
oh I see so you numptys did,nt know what I meant..lol,,
shove yer union flag hurry up and go then, we can get on with building the wall again
did last night not mean anything to you! Ha ha, you told me you like it up against the wall "
yus hadrians same time yea |
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Well the Scottish flag will loose the blue if they leave the union as they will soon be in the red like all the other small tin pot countries in Europe.
Thankfully they won't be in the euro zone so we won't have to bail them out. |
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"Union flag.
oh I see so you numptys did,nt know what I meant..lol,,
shove yer union flag hurry up and go then, we can get on with building the wall again
did last night not mean anything to you! Ha ha, you told me you like it up against the wall
yus hadrians same time yea"
Now now, don't let everyone know, they'll all want me.
Behave the mortars still wet as well |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"Union flag.
oh I see so you numptys did,nt know what I meant..lol,,
shove yer union flag hurry up and go then, we can get on with building the wall again
did last night not mean anything to you! Ha ha, you told me you like it up against the wall
yus hadrians same time yea Now now, don't let everyone know, they'll all want me.
Behave the mortars still wet as well"
Calm down I just wanna nick yer wallet |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"its gonna look really silly without the blue in it "
What makes you think it woudl change? Just because Scotland might leave, doesn;t mean the rest of the UK would change it's flag. Especially as it's on many more flags around the world.
this is just one more thing that Scotland think they are going to take with them, but actually wont. |
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By *heOwlMan
over a year ago
Altrincham |
"Guess it will have to go back to what it was before James 6th of Scotland United Scotland and England after he became James 1st.
What was it?"
The boring St. Georges Cross
James advisors had suggested simply putting the scottish flag in one quadrant, but as James wanted to truely unite the two countries he wanted both flags to have equal promenance, hence the flag we have today.
Of course that means it only really represents two of the countries in the United Kingdom. Oops |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Wow I was of the undecided on the fence kinda place
Iv read lots of opinions from both sides
On these forums and on Facebook the news and various debates
But I'm getting a more truer opinion from this one thread and it's certainly helping me to decide which way to go
Thank you fab forum  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why not just replace the blue with green - from the Welsh flag...?
A better design would be the English Flag with a Red Welsh Dragon imposed on the centre, a bit like the Ulster flag but a dragon instead of a red hand.
When I was young, I thought it was a poodle.
But then I made my mind up that it is the dragon that St George killed and he stuck it on the Welsh flag to remind them that they are ruled by England "
But wasn't George from the place that is now called 'Georgia' - & never set foot here?
That would figure!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"its gonna look really silly without the blue in it "
I would say the word is better in general it will be a more prosperous Britain as manufacturing and commerce relocates southwards. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I firmly that Scotland will be far better off in the short term (as long as your politicians are a damn site straighter than the Westminster knobs), & long term it will be better for all!!
The scare mongering from Westminster says all I need to know! |
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By *vsnikkiTV/TS
over a year ago
Limavady |
Does anyone think that there should be a Welsh element in a union flag?
I just felt that if there was a discussion about the flying of flags you needed the contribution of someone from Northern Ireland to really complicate everything. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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all wales need do is become a free and self determining country and you can have a flag in your own right , not part of the evil corrupt english sphere of influence |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Does anyone think that there should be a Welsh element in a union flag?
I just felt that if there was a discussion about the flying of flags you needed the contribution of someone from Northern Ireland to really complicate everything."
Heh heh heh  |
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St George, patron saint of syphilis sufferers snd other skin complaints.
The jack in Union Jack is from jack stay, which is the rope that runs from the top of the mast to the back of the ship to stop the mast falling forward, from which the flag was flown.
Wales is a principality and not a country, which is why there is no green in the Union Flag.... |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"its gonna look really silly without the blue in it
What makes you think it woudl change? Just because Scotland might leave, doesn;t mean the rest of the UK would change it's flag. Especially as it's on many more flags around the world.
The blue represents the saltire scotlands flag,IF Scotland break away why would that part of the flag remain?
this is just one more thing that Scotland think they are going to take with them, but actually wont. "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It would be a shame if we do change the flag. I think along with the American and Japanese flags, its one of the 3 most recognisable flags in the world.
BTW. I hope the Scots do vote for independence , but cant see it happening |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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lol the funny thing about this thread is the anger that comes across from certain english people, why?
Its got NOTHING to do with you,,Scottish independence is not anti English in my view,i even know English based scots that are voting yes.
I started this thread as a wee joke,,lol some of the response's have been very funny I must say,,cheers.XXX |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I dont think they will, but wish they would go!
Just for reference, Scottish gov figures show public spending at £10150 per person, but also show total tax revenue including North Sea Oil at best representative allocation to be £10000.
The rest of the UK therefore contribute the extra £150 per person to the Scottish economy. Not sure how they are going to be better off! |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I dont think they will, but wish they would go!
Just for reference, Scottish gov figures show public spending at £10150 per person, but also show total tax revenue including North Sea Oil at best representative allocation to be £10000.
The rest of the UK therefore contribute the extra £150 per person to the Scottish economy. Not sure how they are going to be better off!"
utter crap,,where on earth do you get these figures
yet again anti scottish |
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"lol the funny thing about this thread is the anger that comes across from certain english people, why?
Its got NOTHING to do with you,,Scottish independence is not anti English in my view,i even know English based scots that are voting yes.
I started this thread as a wee joke,,lol some of the response's have been very funny I must say,,cheers.XXX"
How can english based scots vote? I am one and I cannot vote because I don't live in Scotland. |
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I want Scottish Independence because I'm tired of all this.
Will Scotland be better off independent? I don't know, nor do i care much - that's for Scots to sort out.
I believe the UK will be better off in the long run if Scotland leaves purely because it will rid us of the uncertainty around the issue, that in itself will lead to more financial certainty.
Also, it will force a re-think in UK politics as the Left will be forced to reengage with those large parts of the electorate it has previously ignored.
All in all i cant see much of a downside to Scotland going it alone.
The one outcome i fear, is a narrow NO vote. That will leave us with a large, bitter minority of Separatists who will do everything in their power to sabotage Scots-UK relations for yrs to come, to the detriment of all of us.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I want Scottish Independence because I'm tired of all this.
Will Scotland be better off independent? I don't know, nor do i care much - that's for Scots to sort out.
I believe the UK will be better off in the long run if Scotland leaves purely because it will rid us of the uncertainty around the issue, that in itself will lead to more financial certainty.
Also, it will force a re-think in UK politics as the Left will be forced to reengage with those large parts of the electorate it has previously ignored.
All in all i cant see much of a downside to Scotland going it alone.
The one outcome i fear, is a narrow NO vote. That will leave us with a large, bitter minority of Separatists who will do everything in their power to sabotage Scots-UK relations for yrs to come, to the detriment of all of us.
"
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"I want Scottish Independence because I'm tired of all this.
Will Scotland be better off independent? I don't know, nor do i care much - that's for Scots to sort out.
I believe the UK will be better off in the long run if Scotland leaves purely because it will rid us of the uncertainty around the issue, that in itself will lead to more financial certainty.
Also, it will force a re-think in UK politics as the Left will be forced to reengage with those large parts of the electorate it has previously ignored.
All in all i cant see much of a downside to Scotland going it alone.
The one outcome i fear, is a narrow NO vote. That will leave us with a large, bitter minority of Separatists who will do everything in their power to sabotage Scots-UK relations for yrs to come, to the detriment of all of us.
"
So no change there then?
(Runs and hides! )
A |
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"I want Scottish Independence because I'm tired of all this.
Will Scotland be better off independent? I don't know, nor do i care much - that's for Scots to sort out.
I believe the UK will be better off in the long run if Scotland leaves purely because it will rid us of the uncertainty around the issue, that in itself will lead to more financial certainty.
Also, it will force a re-think in UK politics as the Left will be forced to reengage with those large parts of the electorate it has previously ignored.
All in all i cant see much of a downside to Scotland going it alone.
The one outcome i fear, is a narrow NO vote. That will leave us with a large, bitter minority of Separatists who will do everything in their power to sabotage Scots-UK relations for yrs to come, to the detriment of all of us.
"
I agree with your post apart from the last bit. It cannot and should not be assumed that nationalists will present disorder etc. If they do not get their way. After the vote in the 70s it was not like that so why would it be now? That hypothesis is part of the very subtle tactic used by the "You are not good enough to go it alone" campaign to present nationalists as small minded petty people. It is not borne up by reality. |
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"I want Scottish Independence because I'm tired of all this.
Will Scotland be better off independent? I don't know, nor do i care much - that's for Scots to sort out.
I believe the UK will be better off in the long run if Scotland leaves purely because it will rid us of the uncertainty around the issue, that in itself will lead to more financial certainty.
Also, it will force a re-think in UK politics as the Left will be forced to reengage with those large parts of the electorate it has previously ignored.
All in all i cant see much of a downside to Scotland going it alone.
The one outcome i fear, is a narrow NO vote. That will leave us with a large, bitter minority of Separatists who will do everything in their power to sabotage Scots-UK relations for yrs to come, to the detriment of all of us.
I agree with your post apart from the last bit. It cannot and should not be assumed that nationalists will present disorder etc. If they do not get their way. After the vote in the 70s it was not like that so why would it be now? That hypothesis is part of the very subtle tactic used by the "You are not good enough to go it alone" campaign to present nationalists as small minded petty people. It is not borne up by reality. "
The difference between then and now, is that the Separatists where not in Govt in Scotland then. Today the Separatists hold power in Scotland and have the opportunity - should they choose - to cause trouble. Salmond has tried repeatedly to make the Independence debate an argument between Scotland & England, so in the event of his losing the vote he may well turn out to be as petulant as i fear.
I hope not. |
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"I want Scottish Independence because I'm tired of all this.
Will Scotland be better off independent? I don't know, nor do i care much - that's for Scots to sort out.
I believe the UK will be better off in the long run if Scotland leaves purely because it will rid us of the uncertainty around the issue, that in itself will lead to more financial certainty.
Also, it will force a re-think in UK politics as the Left will be forced to reengage with those large parts of the electorate it has previously ignored.
All in all i cant see much of a downside to Scotland going it alone.
The one outcome i fear, is a narrow NO vote. That will leave us with a large, bitter minority of Separatists who will do everything in their power to sabotage Scots-UK relations for yrs to come, to the detriment of all of us.
I agree with your post apart from the last bit. It cannot and should not be assumed that nationalists will present disorder etc. If they do not get their way. After the vote in the 70s it was not like that so why would it be now? That hypothesis is part of the very subtle tactic used by the "You are not good enough to go it alone" campaign to present nationalists as small minded petty people. It is not borne up by reality.
The difference between then and now, is that the Separatists where not in Govt in Scotland then. Today the Separatists hold power in Scotland and have the opportunity - should they choose - to cause trouble. Salmond has tried repeatedly to make the Independence debate an argument between Scotland & England, so in the event of his losing the vote he may well turn out to be as petulant as i fear.
I hope not."
That is completely wrong. Salmond and the SNP have repeatedly said that this is not about Scotland and England. It is certain factions in England cannot see that it is not about them. It is about Scotland standing on it's own feet and prospering to the best of it's ability without being dictated to by a parliament the governing party of which has only 1 MP representing Scotland.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"lol the funny thing about this thread is the anger that comes across from certain english people, why?
Its got NOTHING to do with you,,Scottish independence is not anti English in my view,i even know English based scots that are voting yes.
I started this thread as a wee joke,,lol some of the response's have been very funny I must say,,cheers.XXX"
My son lives in Scotland and doesn't have a Scottish bone in his body. He's voting yes. |
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"its hilarious how people south of the border react towards scots independence they are so arrogant they think they have a say in it.
"
Agreed. Did they think they should have a say in Aussie independence? Indian? Why is Scotland different? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"lol the funny thing about this thread is the anger that comes across from certain english people, why?
Its got NOTHING to do with you,,Scottish independence is not anti English in my view,i even know English based scots that are voting yes.
I started this thread as a wee joke,,lol some of the response's have been very funny I must say,,cheers.XXX
My son lives in Scotland and doesn't have a Scottish bone in his body. He's voting yes. "
Yeap many English folk in Scotland are,,its not an anti English thing as many down south seem to think. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"lol the funny thing about this thread is the anger that comes across from certain english people, why?
Its got NOTHING to do with you,,Scottish independence is not anti English in my view,i even know English based scots that are voting yes.
I started this thread as a wee joke,,lol some of the response's have been very funny I must say,,cheers.XXX"
It's got a lot to do with us - all of us!!!
I count myself as British, not English - I see my country as Britain.
Now some of the Scottish people are trying to break up my country - and I want a say in it..!!!
Why shouldn't I be able to express an opinion on it - or even have a vote in it.. ????
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"its hilarious how people south of the border react towards scots independence they are so arrogant they think they have a say in it.
Agreed. Did they think they should have a say in Aussie independence? Indian? Why is Scotland different?"
LOL I think they did, their so damned arrogant. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"lol the funny thing about this thread is the anger that comes across from certain english people, why?
Its got NOTHING to do with you,,Scottish independence is not anti English in my view,i even know English based scots that are voting yes.
I started this thread as a wee joke,,lol some of the response's have been very funny I must say,,cheers.XXX
It's got a lot to do with us - all of us!!!
I count myself as British, not English - I see my country as Britain.
Now some of the Scottish people are trying to break up my country - and I want a say in it..!!!
Why shouldn't I be able to express an opinion on it - or even have a vote in it.. ????
"
You,ll find you have NO say |
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"I want Scottish Independence because I'm tired of all this.
Will Scotland be better off independent? I don't know, nor do i care much - that's for Scots to sort out.
I believe the UK will be better off in the long run if Scotland leaves purely because it will rid us of the uncertainty around the issue, that in itself will lead to more financial certainty.
Also, it will force a re-think in UK politics as the Left will be forced to reengage with those large parts of the electorate it has previously ignored.
All in all i cant see much of a downside to Scotland going it alone.
The one outcome i fear, is a narrow NO vote. That will leave us with a large, bitter minority of Separatists who will do everything in their power to sabotage Scots-UK relations for yrs to come, to the detriment of all of us.
I agree with your post apart from the last bit. It cannot and should not be assumed that nationalists will present disorder etc. If they do not get their way. After the vote in the 70s it was not like that so why would it be now? That hypothesis is part of the very subtle tactic used by the "You are not good enough to go it alone" campaign to present nationalists as small minded petty people. It is not borne up by reality.
The difference between then and now, is that the Separatists where not in Govt in Scotland then. Today the Separatists hold power in Scotland and have the opportunity - should they choose - to cause trouble. Salmond has tried repeatedly to make the Independence debate an argument between Scotland & England, so in the event of his losing the vote he may well turn out to be as petulant as i fear.
I hope not.
That is completely wrong. Salmond and the SNP have repeatedly said that this is not about Scotland and England. It is certain factions in England cannot see that it is not about them. It is about Scotland standing on it's own feet and prospering to the best of it's ability without being dictated to by a parliament the governing party of which has only 1 MP representing Scotland.
"
The vote DOES affect the rest of the UK though, even though the rUK has no say in it.
Because of that its in rUK's interest how that vote goes - IMO the worst outcome for rUK would be a narrow no vote as it would have the potential for the separatists to cause trouble.
I cannot agree to your interpretation of Salmonds tactics, down here it looks very much like Salmond is whipping up the anti-English vote for his own ends.
It is not arrogant (an insult Scots Separatists love to hurl) to have a keen interest on a question that is going to have profound implications for the whole country - yet we get no say in it.
Things like currency union are points that may well negatively affect rUK finances so why should we not have our questions asked & our interests protected? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The Union flag is the flag of the United Kingdom which will still exist when and if Scotland leaves. I see no need to change it. "
lol,,explain why,,,whats the blue in it? |
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"its hilarious how people south of the border react towards scots independence they are so arrogant they think they have a say in it.
"
and Separatists are very arrogant in dismissing the genuine concerns over the future of the rUK that those who have no say are raising.
Who is the most arrogant then? |
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"I want Scottish Independence because I'm tired of all this.
Will Scotland be better off independent? I don't know, nor do i care much - that's for Scots to sort out.
I believe the UK will be better off in the long run if Scotland leaves purely because it will rid us of the uncertainty around the issue, that in itself will lead to more financial certainty.
Also, it will force a re-think in UK politics as the Left will be forced to reengage with those large parts of the electorate it has previously ignored.
All in all i cant see much of a downside to Scotland going it alone.
The one outcome i fear, is a narrow NO vote. That will leave us with a large, bitter minority of Separatists who will do everything in their power to sabotage Scots-UK relations for yrs to come, to the detriment of all of us.
I agree with your post apart from the last bit. It cannot and should not be assumed that nationalists will present disorder etc. If they do not get their way. After the vote in the 70s it was not like that so why would it be now? That hypothesis is part of the very subtle tactic used by the "You are not good enough to go it alone" campaign to present nationalists as small minded petty people. It is not borne up by reality.
The difference between then and now, is that the Separatists where not in Govt in Scotland then. Today the Separatists hold power in Scotland and have the opportunity - should they choose - to cause trouble. Salmond has tried repeatedly to make the Independence debate an argument between Scotland & England, so in the event of his losing the vote he may well turn out to be as petulant as i fear.
I hope not.
That is completely wrong. Salmond and the SNP have repeatedly said that this is not about Scotland and England. It is certain factions in England cannot see that it is not about them. It is about Scotland standing on it's own feet and prospering to the best of it's ability without being dictated to by a parliament the governing party of which has only 1 MP representing Scotland.
The vote DOES affect the rest of the UK though, even though the rUK has no say in it.
Because of that its in rUK's interest how that vote goes - IMO the worst outcome for rUK would be a narrow no vote as it would have the potential for the separatists to cause trouble.
I cannot agree to your interpretation of Salmonds tactics, down here it looks very much like Salmond is whipping up the anti-English vote for his own ends.
It is not arrogant (an insult Scots Separatists love to hurl) to have a keen interest on a question that is going to have profound implications for the whole country - yet we get no say in it.
Things like currency union are points that may well negatively affect rUK finances so why should we not have our questions asked & our interests protected?"
This is singularly the reason so many Scots want independence. They are fed up with other people in other countries dictating how their country should be run. And you are still at it. All we want is to be allowed to dictate our own destiny without people who have nothing to do with us telling us what is best. Should thr French get a vote in our Westminster election because the UK governemnt affects France profoundly? |
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"I want Scottish Independence because I'm tired of all this.
Will Scotland be better off independent? I don't know, nor do i care much - that's for Scots to sort out.
I believe the UK will be better off in the long run if Scotland leaves purely because it will rid us of the uncertainty around the issue, that in itself will lead to more financial certainty.
Also, it will force a re-think in UK politics as the Left will be forced to reengage with those large parts of the electorate it has previously ignored.
All in all i cant see much of a downside to Scotland going it alone.
The one outcome i fear, is a narrow NO vote. That will leave us with a large, bitter minority of Separatists who will do everything in their power to sabotage Scots-UK relations for yrs to come, to the detriment of all of us.
I agree with your post apart from the last bit. It cannot and should not be assumed that nationalists will present disorder etc. If they do not get their way. After the vote in the 70s it was not like that so why would it be now? That hypothesis is part of the very subtle tactic used by the "You are not good enough to go it alone" campaign to present nationalists as small minded petty people. It is not borne up by reality.
The difference between then and now, is that the Separatists where not in Govt in Scotland then. Today the Separatists hold power in Scotland and have the opportunity - should they choose - to cause trouble. Salmond has tried repeatedly to make the Independence debate an argument between Scotland & England, so in the event of his losing the vote he may well turn out to be as petulant as i fear.
I hope not.
That is completely wrong. Salmond and the SNP have repeatedly said that this is not about Scotland and England. It is certain factions in England cannot see that it is not about them. It is about Scotland standing on it's own feet and prospering to the best of it's ability without being dictated to by a parliament the governing party of which has only 1 MP representing Scotland.
The vote DOES affect the rest of the UK though, even though the rUK has no say in it.
Because of that its in rUK's interest how that vote goes - IMO the worst outcome for rUK would be a narrow no vote as it would have the potential for the separatists to cause trouble.
I cannot agree to your interpretation of Salmonds tactics, down here it looks very much like Salmond is whipping up the anti-English vote for his own ends.
It is not arrogant (an insult Scots Separatists love to hurl) to have a keen interest on a question that is going to have profound implications for the whole country - yet we get no say in it.
Things like currency union are points that may well negatively affect rUK finances so why should we not have our questions asked & our interests protected?
This is singularly the reason so many Scots want independence. They are fed up with other people in other countries dictating how their country should be run. And you are still at it. All we want is to be allowed to dictate our own destiny without people who have nothing to do with us telling us what is best. Should thr French get a vote in our Westminster election because the UK governemnt affects France profoundly?"
I'm afraid YOU don't get it. Independence? Fine, go ahead. But we want our interests protecting too, which means questioning those assertions from the Separatists about things like Currency Union which will negatively affect rUK. We have rights too, its not just about you. |
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"I want Scottish Independence because I'm tired of all this.
Will Scotland be better off independent? I don't know, nor do i care much - that's for Scots to sort out.
I believe the UK will be better off in the long run if Scotland leaves purely because it will rid us of the uncertainty around the issue, that in itself will lead to more financial certainty.
Also, it will force a re-think in UK politics as the Left will be forced to reengage with those large parts of the electorate it has previously ignored.
All in all i cant see much of a downside to Scotland going it alone.
The one outcome i fear, is a narrow NO vote. That will leave us with a large, bitter minority of Separatists who will do everything in their power to sabotage Scots-UK relations for yrs to come, to the detriment of all of us.
I agree with your post apart from the last bit. It cannot and should not be assumed that nationalists will present disorder etc. If they do not get their way. After the vote in the 70s it was not like that so why would it be now? That hypothesis is part of the very subtle tactic used by the "You are not good enough to go it alone" campaign to present nationalists as small minded petty people. It is not borne up by reality.
The difference between then and now, is that the Separatists where not in Govt in Scotland then. Today the Separatists hold power in Scotland and have the opportunity - should they choose - to cause trouble. Salmond has tried repeatedly to make the Independence debate an argument between Scotland & England, so in the event of his losing the vote he may well turn out to be as petulant as i fear.
I hope not.
That is completely wrong. Salmond and the SNP have repeatedly said that this is not about Scotland and England. It is certain factions in England cannot see that it is not about them. It is about Scotland standing on it's own feet and prospering to the best of it's ability without being dictated to by a parliament the governing party of which has only 1 MP representing Scotland.
The vote DOES affect the rest of the UK though, even though the rUK has no say in it.
Because of that its in rUK's interest how that vote goes - IMO the worst outcome for rUK would be a narrow no vote as it would have the potential for the separatists to cause trouble.
I cannot agree to your interpretation of Salmonds tactics, down here it looks very much like Salmond is whipping up the anti-English vote for his own ends.
It is not arrogant (an insult Scots Separatists love to hurl) to have a keen interest on a question that is going to have profound implications for the whole country - yet we get no say in it.
Things like currency union are points that may well negatively affect rUK finances so why should we not have our questions asked & our interests protected?
This is singularly the reason so many Scots want independence. They are fed up with other people in other countries dictating how their country should be run. And you are still at it. All we want is to be allowed to dictate our own destiny without people who have nothing to do with us telling us what is best. Should thr French get a vote in our Westminster election because the UK governemnt affects France profoundly?
I'm afraid YOU don't get it. Independence? Fine, go ahead. But we want our interests protecting too, which means questioning those assertions from the Separatists about things like Currency Union which will negatively affect rUK. We have rights too, its not just about you."
You are presenting a straw man argument. No one is denying you a say in any currency union. |
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"I want Scottish Independence because I'm tired of all this.
Will Scotland be better off independent? I don't know, nor do i care much - that's for Scots to sort out.
I believe the UK will be better off in the long run if Scotland leaves purely because it will rid us of the uncertainty around the issue, that in itself will lead to more financial certainty.
Also, it will force a re-think in UK politics as the Left will be forced to reengage with those large parts of the electorate it has previously ignored.
All in all i cant see much of a downside to Scotland going it alone.
The one outcome i fear, is a narrow NO vote. That will leave us with a large, bitter minority of Separatists who will do everything in their power to sabotage Scots-UK relations for yrs to come, to the detriment of all of us.
I agree with your post apart from the last bit. It cannot and should not be assumed that nationalists will present disorder etc. If they do not get their way. After the vote in the 70s it was not like that so why would it be now? That hypothesis is part of the very subtle tactic used by the "You are not good enough to go it alone" campaign to present nationalists as small minded petty people. It is not borne up by reality.
The difference between then and now, is that the Separatists where not in Govt in Scotland then. Today the Separatists hold power in Scotland and have the opportunity - should they choose - to cause trouble. Salmond has tried repeatedly to make the Independence debate an argument between Scotland & England, so in the event of his losing the vote he may well turn out to be as petulant as i fear.
I hope not.
That is completely wrong. Salmond and the SNP have repeatedly said that this is not about Scotland and England. It is certain factions in England cannot see that it is not about them. It is about Scotland standing on it's own feet and prospering to the best of it's ability without being dictated to by a parliament the governing party of which has only 1 MP representing Scotland.
The vote DOES affect the rest of the UK though, even though the rUK has no say in it.
Because of that its in rUK's interest how that vote goes - IMO the worst outcome for rUK would be a narrow no vote as it would have the potential for the separatists to cause trouble.
I cannot agree to your interpretation of Salmonds tactics, down here it looks very much like Salmond is whipping up the anti-English vote for his own ends.
It is not arrogant (an insult Scots Separatists love to hurl) to have a keen interest on a question that is going to have profound implications for the whole country - yet we get no say in it.
Things like currency union are points that may well negatively affect rUK finances so why should we not have our questions asked & our interests protected?
This is singularly the reason so many Scots want independence. They are fed up with other people in other countries dictating how their country should be run. And you are still at it. All we want is to be allowed to dictate our own destiny without people who have nothing to do with us telling us what is best. Should thr French get a vote in our Westminster election because the UK governemnt affects France profoundly?
I'm afraid YOU don't get it. Independence? Fine, go ahead. But we want our interests protecting too, which means questioning those assertions from the Separatists about things like Currency Union which will negatively affect rUK. We have rights too, its not just about you.
You are presenting a straw man argument. No one is denying you a say in any currency union."
No, fortunately.
However we ARE denied a say in the possible future shape of the UK. That in itself isn't a problem as self determination is an absolute right, it is the assumption of the Separatists that in the event of a YES vote then certain things will happen regardless of the wishes of the rUK population - one of which is CU. |
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"Yawn. Guys stop trying to point score off of each other. Admin will decide who if anyone gets their arse kicked. Some of these postd remind me of being at school. Give it a rest."
I agree. I apologise to the rest of the thread for getting sucked into this. |
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By *opinovMan
over a year ago
Point Nemo, Cumbria |
"The Scots don't have the Balls to go."
"Pretty sure the Scots will vote to stay in Britain."
Sadly, this is the truth of it.
Scotland and England could both prosper seperately, but Scots probably won't vote for independence through fear of the unkown and lack of confidence - it's quite pathetic... rather like an abused codependent partner eager to defend their abuser. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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One thing for sure if Alex Salmond gets full control it will be borrow borrow borrow spend spend spend the fats are long term nobody knows if Scotland will be better off but setting up all the infrastructure will hit peoples pockets in Scotland heavily for at least 10 years possibly 20. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"lol the funny thing about this thread is the anger that comes across from certain english people, why?
Its got NOTHING to do with you,,Scottish independence is not anti English in my view,i even know English based scots that are voting yes.
I started this thread as a wee joke,,lol some of the response's have been very funny I must say,,cheers.XXX
How can english based scots vote? I am one and I cannot vote because I don't live in Scotland. "
Nor my parents who fear they are about to become foreigners in their new homeland. If you're Scots born you should get a vote. |
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By *opinovMan
over a year ago
Point Nemo, Cumbria |
"... i even know English based scots that are voting yes.
How can english based scots vote? I am one and I cannot vote because I don't live in Scotland.
Nor my parents who fear they are about to become foreigners in their new homeland. If you're Scots born you should get a vote."
Yes, I'd like to know too.
Details please. |
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"lol the funny thing about this thread is the anger that comes across from certain english people, why?
Its got NOTHING to do with you,,Scottish independence is not anti English in my view,i even know English based scots that are voting yes.
I started this thread as a wee joke,,lol some of the response's have been very funny I must say,,cheers.XXX
How can english based scots vote? I am one and I cannot vote because I don't live in Scotland.
Nor my parents who fear they are about to become foreigners in their new homeland. If you're Scots born you should get a vote."
How can you get to vote if you do not live in the country? The referendum is to ask the residents of Scotland if they want to be independent of the UK. I will also be a foreigner in Englsnd if Scotland separates but that is no big deal. I cannot have a say as I chose to leave. It does not affect me. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Union flag."
It's only called a Jack when it's flying from a boat or ship. Every other occasion it's called the Union Flag.
Sorry for coming across a bit pedantic, but, being ex Royal Navy, & like a lot of ex RN personnel, getting the name wrong bugs us a little. |
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By *heOwlMan
over a year ago
Altrincham |
"The Union flag is the flag of the United Kingdom which will still exist when and if Scotland leaves. I see no need to change it.
lol,,explain why,,,whats the blue in it?"
I do find the idea that the flag of the United Kingdom should remain the same in the event of Scotland going independant a little meaningless.
The Union flag was created by combining the English and Scotish flags. It was created to represent the equal partnership of the two nations and thereby the Union of two.
So in the event of the seperation of the only two coutries represented by the Union flag, surely those two coutries should revert to thier own flags, as the Union would no longer exist.
Or at least Scotland can. Perhaps England should then negotiate with Wales and Northern Ireland to create a flag that then represents them all (assuming further seperation doesn't then occur).
|
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"The Union flag is the flag of the United Kingdom which will still exist when and if Scotland leaves. I see no need to change it.
lol,,explain why,,,whats the blue in it?
I do find the idea that the flag of the United Kingdom should remain the same in the event of Scotland going independant a little meaningless.
The Union flag was created by combining the English and Scotish flags. It was created to represent the equal partnership of the two nations and thereby the Union of two.
So in the event of the seperation of the only two coutries represented by the Union flag, surely those two coutries should revert to thier own flags, as the Union would no longer exist.
Or at least Scotland can. Perhaps England should then negotiate with Wales and Northern Ireland to create a flag that then represents them all (assuming further seperation doesn't then occur).
"
The northern irish flag is part of the union flag too. |
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By *heOwlMan
over a year ago
Altrincham |
"The Union flag is the flag of the United Kingdom which will still exist when and if Scotland leaves. I see no need to change it.
lol,,explain why,,,whats the blue in it?
I do find the idea that the flag of the United Kingdom should remain the same in the event of Scotland going independant a little meaningless.
The Union flag was created by combining the English and Scotish flags. It was created to represent the equal partnership of the two nations and thereby the Union of two.
So in the event of the seperation of the only two coutries represented by the Union flag, surely those two coutries should revert to thier own flags, as the Union would no longer exist.
Or at least Scotland can. Perhaps England should then negotiate with Wales and Northern Ireland to create a flag that then represents them all (assuming further seperation doesn't then occur).
The northern irish flag is part of the union flag too."
Oops so it is. Just Wales to negotiate with then. Perhaps replace some or all the blue with green :P |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"all wales need do is become a free and self determining country and you can have a flag in your own right , not part of the evil corrupt english sphere of influence"
Lol... Wales survive on their own? Wales has an even smaller population than Scotland of only 3 million. Take off the retired, young & jobless. Hell... there are more sheep in Wales than there are people, & sheep don't pay tax. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"lol the funny thing about this thread is the anger that comes across from certain english people, why?
Its got NOTHING to do with you,,Scottish independence is not anti English in my view,i even know English based scots that are voting yes.
I started this thread as a wee joke,,lol some of the response's have been very funny I must say,,cheers.XXX"
If it's nothing to do with English site users, maybe you should have put Scottish only to reply in the heading, & if you are going to make a thread about a political subject, you WILL get political answers. |
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"all wales need do is become a free and self determining country and you can have a flag in your own right , not part of the evil corrupt english sphere of influence
Lol... Wales survive on their own? Wales has an even smaller population than Scotland of only 3 million. Take off the retired, young & jobless. Hell... there are more sheep in Wales than there are people, & sheep don't pay tax."
Free Wales
With every 10 litres of unleaded |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Union flag.
It's only called a Jack when it's flying from a boat or ship. Every other occasion it's called the Union Flag.
Sorry for coming across a bit pedantic, but, being ex Royal Navy, & like a lot of ex RN personnel, getting the name wrong bugs us a little."
Not true, sadly - from the UK Flag Institute:-
"It is often stated that the Union Flag should only be described as the Union Jack when flown in the bows of a warship, but this is a relatively recent idea. From early in its life the Admiralty itself frequently referred to the flag as the Union Jack, whatever its use, and in 1902 an Admiralty Circular announced that Their Lordships had decided that either name could be used officially. Such use was given Parliamentary approval in 1908 when it was stated that “the Union Jack should be regarded as the National flag”." |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The Union flag is the flag of the United Kingdom which will still exist when and if Scotland leaves. I see no need to change it.
lol,,explain why,,,whats the blue in it?"
The historic reasons for its appearance are no longer relevant. The uk contains Wales yet there are no dragons or Welsh elements in the union flag. Today it is just a pattern recognised to reflect the UK.
Scotland will use the white saltire on blue i assume so there will be no confusion so where is the conflict? |
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"The Union flag is the flag of the United Kingdom which will still exist when and if Scotland leaves. I see no need to change it.
lol,,explain why,,,whats the blue in it?
The historic reasons for its appearance are no longer relevant. The uk contains Wales yet there are no dragons or Welsh elements in the union flag. Today it is just a pattern recognised to reflect the UK.
Scotland will use the white saltire on blue i assume so there will be no confusion so where is the conflict? "
Look mate, don't come onto this thread with all your fancy rational thought when you should be presenting badly disguised racism and intolerance.
There must be a division and ill feeling otherwise idiots have nothing to define their moronic lives with. |
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By *bi HaiveMan
over a year ago
Forum Mod Cheeseville, Somerset |
"The Union flag is the flag of the United Kingdom which will still exist when and if Scotland leaves. I see no need to change it.
lol,,explain why,,,whats the blue in it?
The historic reasons for its appearance are no longer relevant. The uk contains Wales yet there are no dragons or Welsh elements in the union flag. Today it is just a pattern recognised to reflect the UK.
Scotland will use the white saltire on blue i assume so there will be no confusion so where is the conflict?
Look mate, don't come onto this thread with all your fancy rational thought when you should be presenting badly disguised racism and intolerance.
There must be a division and ill feeling otherwise idiots have nothing to define their moronic lives with. "
If independence is granted - rather than rebuild the wall can dig a big trench and fill it with sharks mounted with laser cannons?
A |
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"The Union flag is the flag of the United Kingdom which will still exist when and if Scotland leaves. I see no need to change it.
lol,,explain why,,,whats the blue in it?
The historic reasons for its appearance are no longer relevant. The uk contains Wales yet there are no dragons or Welsh elements in the union flag. Today it is just a pattern recognised to reflect the UK.
Scotland will use the white saltire on blue i assume so there will be no confusion so where is the conflict?
Look mate, don't come onto this thread with all your fancy rational thought when you should be presenting badly disguised racism and intolerance.
There must be a division and ill feeling otherwise idiots have nothing to define their moronic lives with. "
I still think we should bomb France, I would say Belgium too, but they are only an ickle country, and I quite like them |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I dont think they will, but wish they would go!
Just for reference, Scottish gov figures show public spending at £10150 per person, but also show total tax revenue including North Sea Oil at best representative allocation to be £10000.
The rest of the UK therefore contribute the extra £150 per person to the Scottish economy. Not sure how they are going to be better off!
utter crap,,where on earth do you get these figures
yet again anti scottish"
Erm... Now let me see, oh yes, these are official published figures from the Scottish government! Say no more! |
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"I dont think they will, but wish they would go!
Just for reference, Scottish gov figures show public spending at £10150 per person, but also show total tax revenue including North Sea Oil at best representative allocation to be £10000.
The rest of the UK therefore contribute the extra £150 per person to the Scottish economy. Not sure how they are going to be better off!
utter crap,,where on earth do you get these figures
yet again anti scottish
Erm... Now let me see, oh yes, these are official published figures from the Scottish government! Say no more!"
Any chance of some proof? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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how many people are you hoping to kill on your bombing run over france ? are you just going to drop conventional munitions on them or use a few of the weapons of mass destruction on them ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It can stay the same whether the scotch bugger off or not its known the world over and great symbol "
Scotch? Which part of Nounderstandingofgeographyistan do you come from? |
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A
