FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Fifty shade of grey
Fifty shade of grey
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"I wonder if it will be as piss-takingly funny as the books? Like when you get a film that is so bad it becomes good but for all the wrong reasons.... A fair proportion of women on here would eat Christian G for breakfast......and still want a bacon sarney! Just so Lame.....and if the script is as badly written (as in the English) then it really will be crap."  | |||
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"Releasing it on valentines, peculiar" it's a love story so not really | |||
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"I wonder if it will be as piss-takingly funny as the books? Like when you get a film that is so bad it becomes good but for all the wrong reasons.... A fair proportion of women on here would eat Christian G for breakfast......and still want a bacon sarney! Just so Lame.....and if the script is as badly written (as in the English) then it really will be crap." Grr, I want a bacon sarnie now!!! | |||
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"Can't wait for fifty shade to come out 14/02/15 one I will be watching on the night." Hope you enjoy it and it's as good as you want it to be. The trailer looked promising. | |||
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"I would rather watch reruns of Dallas while being force fed Semolina
Gimp"Fucking pervert  | |||
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"Loving something going around on facebook at the moment. Sums up beautifully how I feel about 50 shades and how it portrays BDSM. ...Wanna know the BDSM mantra? Safe, sane, consensual. So let me explain why this book was devoid of all three of these things. Safe - In the first few chapters of the novel, Christian Grey tracks Ana’s cell phone to find her at a club. Takes her home when she’s d*unk, changes her when she’s so intoxicated she doesn’t remember him doing so,and informs her he will be keeping tabs on her for her own benefit. This is not the behaviour of a respectable Dominant. This is the behaviour of a power hungry, abusive asshole who really can’t take no for an answer. Sane - One of the most important parts of BDSM is aftercare. Scenes can be extremely traumatizing and intense for the submissive. Aftercare is anything from petting to cuddling to holding to sweet talking, whatever degree of gentleness a bottom would need to pull them out of “subspace”. How does Christian provide aftercare? He submits Ana to a traumatizing first time spanking experience AND THEN FUCKING LEAVES. AND GETS MAD THAT SHE DIDN’T TELL HIM SHE WAS UPSET. He’s the one who should fucking know better! That, again, is not the act of a responsible Dominant. It’s the act of a selfish abuser. Consensual - Did I mention he undressed her when she was belligerently d*unk? Tracked her phone to locate her? He also buys her a new car despite her saying no countless times. Now, consent is important for any kind of sexual activity at all. Consent means informed, consent means enthusiastic. Informed, enthusiastic consent. This is crucial in a BDSM setting. Scenes can be extremely intense, especially for the bottom. What is Christian’s form of obtaining consent? Handing Ana a fucking contract highlighting all the things he wants to do her asshole and asking her to sign it. She was a virgin (Don’t even get me fucking started.) who had never before been exposed to BDSM. Entering in that kind of relationship takes a gargantuan amount of trust and knowledge so you know exactly what you’re getting into. Not reading a list of kinks on a piece of paper and signing your rights to say no away. Christian didn’t offer her resources, he didn’t offer her information. He gave her an ultimatum. That is not the sort of consent a responsible Dom/me would seek from their submissive. Fuck. This. book. It’s written in a shitty way, it’s a terrible example of a BDSM relationship (ask anybody already involved in the lifestyle and watch them go blue in the face just thinking about it), which is already faced with enough prejudice and misunderstand, and it romanticizes and glorifies abuse... crystal" I have never been in a bdsm relationship but I have been in an abusive relationship. I have never read the books but I just know they are crap. I won't be watching the film. Thank you Crystal that is perfection in print | |||
"Yep I won't be rushing to watch it and I suspect many people on fab have much more erotic sex lives I think this is a sorry adaptation on "the story of O" However if 50 shades gives an "acceptability " to bdsm and leads to more couples experimenting - then why not !" The why not is because it is a skewed perspective of bdsm See crystals post above for explanation | |||
"Thank you Crystal that is perfection in print "I wish I could take credit for that writing but I can't. It is currently doing the rounds on the internet. crystal | |||
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"Loving something going around on facebook at the moment. Sums up beautifully how I feel about 50 shades and how it portrays BDSM. ...Wanna know the BDSM mantra? Safe, sane, consensual. So let me explain why this book was devoid of all three of these things. Safe - In the first few chapters of the novel, Christian Grey tracks Ana’s cell phone to find her at a club. Takes her home when she’s d*unk, changes her when she’s so intoxicated she doesn’t remember him doing so,and informs her he will be keeping tabs on her for her own benefit. This is not the behaviour of a respectable Dominant. This is the behaviour of a power hungry, abusive asshole who really can’t take no for an answer. Sane - One of the most important parts of BDSM is aftercare. Scenes can be extremely traumatizing and intense for the submissive. Aftercare is anything from petting to cuddling to holding to sweet talking, whatever degree of gentleness a bottom would need to pull them out of “subspace”. How does Christian provide aftercare? He submits Ana to a traumatizing first time spanking experience AND THEN FUCKING LEAVES. AND GETS MAD THAT SHE DIDN’T TELL HIM SHE WAS UPSET. He’s the one who should fucking know better! That, again, is not the act of a responsible Dominant. It’s the act of a selfish abuser. Consensual - Did I mention he undressed her when she was belligerently d*unk? Tracked her phone to locate her? He also buys her a new car despite her saying no countless times. Now, consent is important for any kind of sexual activity at all. Consent means informed, consent means enthusiastic. Informed, enthusiastic consent. This is crucial in a BDSM setting. Scenes can be extremely intense, especially for the bottom. What is Christian’s form of obtaining consent? Handing Ana a fucking contract highlighting all the things he wants to do her asshole and asking her to sign it. She was a virgin (Don’t even get me fucking started.) who had never before been exposed to BDSM. Entering in that kind of relationship takes a gargantuan amount of trust and knowledge so you know exactly what you’re getting into. Not reading a list of kinks on a piece of paper and signing your rights to say no away. Christian didn’t offer her resources, he didn’t offer her information. He gave her an ultimatum. That is not the sort of consent a responsible Dom/me would seek from their submissive. Fuck. This. book. It’s written in a shitty way, it’s a terrible example of a BDSM relationship (ask anybody already involved in the lifestyle and watch them go blue in the face just thinking about it), which is already faced with enough prejudice and misunderstand, and it romanticizes and glorifies abuse... crystal" Thank you crystal very informative.
Claire | |||
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"Loving something going around on facebook at the moment. Sums up beautifully how I feel about 50 shades and how it portrays BDSM. ...Wanna know the BDSM mantra? Safe, sane, consensual. So let me explain why this book was devoid of all three of these things. Safe - In the first few chapters of the novel, Christian Grey tracks Ana’s cell phone to find her at a club. Takes her home when she’s d*unk, changes her when she’s so intoxicated she doesn’t remember him doing so,and informs her he will be keeping tabs on her for her own benefit. This is not the behaviour of a respectable Dominant. This is the behaviour of a power hungry, abusive asshole who really can’t take no for an answer. Sane - One of the most important parts of BDSM is aftercare. Scenes can be extremely traumatizing and intense for the submissive. Aftercare is anything from petting to cuddling to holding to sweet talking, whatever degree of gentleness a bottom would need to pull them out of “subspace”. How does Christian provide aftercare? He submits Ana to a traumatizing first time spanking experience AND THEN FUCKING LEAVES. AND GETS MAD THAT SHE DIDN’T TELL HIM SHE WAS UPSET. He’s the one who should fucking know better! That, again, is not the act of a responsible Dominant. It’s the act of a selfish abuser. Consensual - Did I mention he undressed her when she was belligerently d*unk? Tracked her phone to locate her? He also buys her a new car despite her saying no countless times. Now, consent is important for any kind of sexual activity at all. Consent means informed, consent means enthusiastic. Informed, enthusiastic consent. This is crucial in a BDSM setting. Scenes can be extremely intense, especially for the bottom. What is Christian’s form of obtaining consent? Handing Ana a fucking contract highlighting all the things he wants to do her asshole and asking her to sign it. She was a virgin (Don’t even get me fucking started.) who had never before been exposed to BDSM. Entering in that kind of relationship takes a gargantuan amount of trust and knowledge so you know exactly what you’re getting into. Not reading a list of kinks on a piece of paper and signing your rights to say no away. Christian didn’t offer her resources, he didn’t offer her information. He gave her an ultimatum. That is not the sort of consent a responsible Dom/me would seek from their submissive. Fuck. This. book. It’s written in a shitty way, it’s a terrible example of a BDSM relationship (ask anybody already involved in the lifestyle and watch them go blue in the face just thinking about it), which is already faced with enough prejudice and misunderstand, and it romanticizes and glorifies abuse... crystal Thank you crystal very informative.
Claire "Well written and informative, i live 24/7 in a BDSM relationship and the books portray totally the wring idea of how it is. | |||
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"My concern is that naive people will seek bdsm or ds type relationships without the knowledge or understanding of how they may be taken advantage of or how their actions may lead to physical or psychological harm. I understand that this would have happened without the film bring published however, Hollywood has the ability to make people think that their portrayal is the norm. crystal " That i can agree with, crystal, for the most part. The are in bdsm, as well as any other sector of life, unsavory characters who seek to take advantage of others. My point was that the oh so popular 'bash 50 shades' bandwagon isn't always as informed as it claims to be. In some cases its people who don't know bdsm bashing bdsm, in some cases its people bashing the book without actually paying attention to the detail that they cite in their arguments. At the end of the day, some like the books and some don't. Some line bdsm and some don't. Whatever your feelings in the matter, you have a right to them. Just inform yourself and form your own opinion rather than espousing the opinions of others for the sake of making life easier or being popular. | |||
"My concern is that naive people will seek bdsm or ds type relationships without the knowledge or understanding of how they may be taken advantage of or how their actions may lead to physical or psychological harm. I understand that this would have happened without the film bring published however, Hollywood has the ability to make people think that their portrayal is the norm. crystal That i can agree with, crystal, for the most part. The are in bdsm, as well as any other sector of life, unsavory characters who seek to take advantage of others. My point was that the oh so popular 'bash 50 shades' bandwagon isn't always as informed as it claims to be. In some cases its people who don't know bdsm bashing bdsm, in some cases its people bashing the book without actually paying attention to the detail that they cite in their arguments. At the end of the day, some like the books and some don't. Some line bdsm and some don't. Whatever your feelings in the matter, you have a right to them. Just inform yourself and form your own opinion rather than espousing the opinions of others for the sake of making life easier or being popular. " How would you suggest one becomes better informed? crystal | |||
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"Can't wait for fifty shade to come out 14/02/15 one I will be watching on the night." Me too I can't wait! | |||
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"My concern is that naive people will seek bdsm or ds type relationships without the knowledge or understanding of how they may be taken advantage of or how their actions may lead to physical or psychological harm. I understand that this would have happened without the film bring published however, Hollywood has the ability to make people think that their portrayal is the norm. crystal That i can agree with, crystal, for the most part. The are in bdsm, as well as any other sector of life, unsavory characters who seek to take advantage of others. My point was that the oh so popular 'bash 50 shades' bandwagon isn't always as informed as it claims to be. In some cases its people who don't know bdsm bashing bdsm, in some cases its people bashing the book without actually paying attention to the detail that they cite in their arguments. At the end of the day, some like the books and some don't. Some line bdsm and some don't. Whatever your feelings in the matter, you have a right to them. Just inform yourself and form your own opinion rather than espousing the opinions of others for the sake of making life easier or being popular. How would you suggest one becomes better informed? crystal" In the context of what i meant in the post it was actually reading the books and looking at the detail around certain acts cited and putting it into context. If you're asking about information on bdsm, the internet is a minefield and smorgasbord of info at the same time because bdsm is such a personally adaptable undertaking for each individual. Researching for yourself online is, however, preferable to simply looking at a post on any social media and just jumping on the bandwagon without thought. At least it is in my world. I expect that after research many would still have not favorable opinions of the books or the lifestyle but those would be informed opinions. Many that I've personally seen on the lines of fb are lacking in being informed and i think that that is a tragedy. | |||
"People who watch this shite will think that the relationship shown in the film is what a dom and sub relationship should be like. Mr Grey doesn't seem like a nice guy from what I've read. Maybe do some research on s&m and not take this book literally." How do you know what they think? Perhaps it's just a good story. Do people think that Star Wars is real? Doesn't stop them enjoying the story. Give people some credit. | |||
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"People who watch this shite will think that the relationship shown in the film is what a dom and sub relationship should be like. Mr Grey doesn't seem like a nice guy from what I've read. Maybe do some research on s&m and not take this book literally. How do you know what they think? Perhaps it's just a good story. Do people think that Star Wars is real? Doesn't stop them enjoying the story. Give people some credit. " Because that's how some people are. Star Wars was a bad comparison. You have to be incredibly stupid to think that's real. | |||
"People who watch this shite will think that the relationship shown in the film is what a dom and sub relationship should be like. Mr Grey doesn't seem like a nice guy from what I've read. Maybe do some research on s&m and not take this book literally." I really doubt it people don't think superman had a relationship with Lois lane or that Rambo was a real person etc. You might get one or two who come to that conclusion but they are the ones who lack a little something. | |||
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"Ok,I'm gonna weigh in on this: For starters, the strategy of releasing it in valentine's day is easily seen.... Money. This movie is a draw for women. They'd be organising girls night out in droves to see it. By releasing it on v-day instead, those ladies will be dragging their reluctant partners with them and instructing them to take notes, and then organising girls night to see it again. The is already sex toy merch sold under the label but that will be increased following the release of the film with part of those renewed sales going to hollywood, as well. Simple. As for it being badly written, that's down to personal perception and obviously people have differing opinions there. As for the 'it's not REAL bdsm' or 'it's not SSC, its just abuse': get real with yourself. Firstly, there is no 'REAL' bdsm and actually hundreds of resources warn people just entering the scene about the dangers of people who display that attitude. BDSM relationships are what the couple make of them. Secondly, SSC is, i agree, the mantra of RESPONSIBLE people in the scene, but to portray that everyone who plays uses those guidelines isn't honest. I myself know of a D in hull who blatantly states that he will not allow safe words and that once a s agrees to play with him anything goes and any attempts to stop play will be met with increased efforts on his part. I know of a s in London who just pulls random guys in pubs or clubs and takes them down to her own dungeon at home with zero discussion of limits or idea if they know what they're doing or not. Real life is much scarier than anything in the book and definitely does more to harm perception of the scene than the portrayal of a fictional character. Christian being controlling and abusive? I only wish that my abusive and controlling ex husband had been as thoughtful as christian gray. Unfortunately, he wasn't. And that's the rub. For every instance cited by someone about how he was abusive, there's an instance of him not being. She was a virgin, they scream.... Yeah, and he took her virginity, with her consent, in a vanilla way. He undressed her when she was d*unk, they scream. Yeah, but not to have sex with her. He took her clothes off to put her to bed after she'd been sick and he watched over her without touching her. At once time people would've seen that as what was reasonably expected from fellow humans. What does it say about us that it is now seen as abuse? The whole draw of the books for women is twofold, firstly that C is 'fifty shades of fucked up, baby' but does truly fall in love with ana and does change for her. That they fight and find the middle ground to make it work. The fact that they do it with spicy passionate sex is the icing on the cake. Ultimately, this fifty shades phenomena doesn't hurt the public profile of bdsm culture by making it more acceptable, even where the errors lay, but the bdsm scene screaming at the tops of its lungs in rebellion just might do some harm. " I'm vanilla in the bdsm scenario. 50 shades did tickle my taste buds when I read the books. I have been tempted to try some additional play and did use handcuffs a while ago, it didn't turn me on but maybe I wasn't ready, who knows. I will probably get a bit of a rant back at me but if I ever choose to try bdsm then a Christian Grey type would appeal to me.  | |||
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"People who watch this shite will think that the relationship shown in the film is what a dom and sub relationship should be like. Mr Grey doesn't seem like a nice guy from what I've read. Maybe do some research on s&m and not take this book literally. How do you know what they think? Perhaps it's just a good story. Do people think that Star Wars is real? Doesn't stop them enjoying the story. Give people some credit. Because that's how some people are. Star Wars was a bad comparison. You have to be incredibly stupid to think that's real." What do you mean Star Wars isn't real? | |||
"Can't wait for fifty shade to come out 14/02/15 one I will be watching on the night." Me too, but thought both the main characters would be a little older somehow? They just look too young and green in the trailer I suppose (well Christian anyway, Ana is supposed to | |||
"Ok, I'll rephrase: SOME people will think that's how it should be. Better?" Some people assume a lot too! | |||
"Ok,I'm gonna weigh in on this: For starters, the strategy of releasing it in valentine's day is easily seen.... Money. This movie is a draw for women. They'd be organising girls night out in droves to see it. By releasing it on v-day instead, those ladies will be dragging their reluctant partners with them and instructing them to take notes, and then organising girls night to see it again. The is already sex toy merch sold under the label but that will be increased following the release of the film with part of those renewed sales going to hollywood, as well. Simple. As for it being badly written, that's down to personal perception and obviously people have differing opinions there. As for the 'it's not REAL bdsm' or 'it's not SSC, its just abuse': get real with yourself. Firstly, there is no 'REAL' bdsm and actually hundreds of resources warn people just entering the scene about the dangers of people who display that attitude. BDSM relationships are what the couple make of them. Secondly, SSC is, i agree, the mantra of RESPONSIBLE people in the scene, but to portray that everyone who plays uses those guidelines isn't honest. I myself know of a D in hull who blatantly states that he will not allow safe words and that once a s agrees to play with him anything goes and any attempts to stop play will be met with increased efforts on his part. I know of a s in London who just pulls random guys in pubs or clubs and takes them down to her own dungeon at home with zero discussion of limits or idea if they know what they're doing or not. Real life is much scarier than anything in the book and definitely does more to harm perception of the scene than the portrayal of a fictional character. Christian being controlling and abusive? I only wish that my abusive and controlling ex husband had been as thoughtful as christian gray. Unfortunately, he wasn't. And that's the rub. For every instance cited by someone about how he was abusive, there's an instance of him not being. She was a virgin, they scream.... Yeah, and he took her virginity, with her consent, in a vanilla way. He undressed her when she was d*unk, they scream. Yeah, but not to have sex with her. He took her clothes off to put her to bed after she'd been sick and he watched over her without touching her. At once time people would've seen that as what was reasonably expected from fellow humans. What does it say about us that it is now seen as abuse? The whole draw of the books for women is twofold, firstly that C is 'fifty shades of fucked up, baby' but does truly fall in love with ana and does change for her. That they fight and find the middle ground to make it work. The fact that they do it with spicy passionate sex is the icing on the cake. Ultimately, this fifty shades phenomena doesn't hurt the public profile of bdsm culture by making it more acceptable, even where the errors lay, but the bdsm scene screaming at the tops of its lungs in rebellion just might do some harm. " This | |||
"I'm vanilla in the bdsm scenario. 50 shades did tickle my taste buds when I read the books. I have been tempted to try some additional play and did use handcuffs a while ago, it didn't turn me on but maybe I wasn't ready, who knows. I will probably get a bit of a rant back at me but if I ever choose to try bdsm then a Christian Grey type would appeal to me. "I think it's great that the book has gotten people interested in finding new and different ways to diversify their sex life. My issue was with how a Bdsm relationship was portrayed by the books and how the bdsm scene may by perceived by those wishing to try it. People have come onto the bdsm scene looking for their Christian Grey or Ana Steele to be left sorely disappointed. People have also dived head first into using rope without a full understanding of the potential damage that prolonged nerve crushing can cause. Maybe it's because of the type of play that I get involved in and have been involved in that has lead me to being so passionate about consent as it's so important to me to ensure all those involved understand all the risks (the D type and s type). Anyone wanting to get involved in bdsm should do so by first educating themselves on the risks that are involved with what they are planning and learning how to minimise risks and what to do if it goes wrong. crystal | |||
"I'm vanilla in the bdsm scenario. 50 shades did tickle my taste buds when I read the books. I have been tempted to try some additional play and did use handcuffs a while ago, it didn't turn me on but maybe I wasn't ready, who knows. I will probably get a bit of a rant back at me but if I ever choose to try bdsm then a Christian Grey type would appeal to me.
I think it's great that the book has gotten people interested in finding new and different ways to diversify their sex life. My issue was with how a Bdsm relationship was portrayed by the books and how the bdsm scene may by perceived by those wishing to try it.
People have come onto the bdsm scene looking for their Christian Grey or Ana Steele to be left sorely disappointed. People have also dived head first into using rope without a full understanding of the potential damage that prolonged nerve crushing can cause.
Maybe it's because of the type of play that I get involved in and have been involved in that has lead me to being so passionate about consent as it's so important to me to ensure all those involved understand all the risks (the D type and s type).
Anyone wanting to get involved in bdsm should do so by first educating themselves on the risks that are involved with what they are planning and learning how to minimise risks and what to do if it goes wrong.
crystal"Fair point. I always research things before I try anything new and had assumed people did the same. It wasn't until I read all these posts that I realised some people possibly don't do that. Not sure what I think about it all now to be honest (the books etc). I do like that it created interest. I'm worried that some people might get in danger... wondering if those people are a danger to themselves anyway though.  | |||
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"Ok, I'll rephrase: SOME people will think that's how it should be. Better? Some people assume a lot too! " Yes because I know what some people are like | |||
"Ok,I'm gonna weigh in on this: For starters, the strategy of releasing it in valentine's day is easily seen.... Money. This movie is a draw for women. They'd be organising girls night out in droves to see it. By releasing it on v-day instead, those ladies will be dragging their reluctant partners with them and instructing them to take notes, and then organising girls night to see it again. The is already sex toy merch sold under the label but that will be increased following the release of the film with part of those renewed sales going to hollywood, as well. Simple. As for it being badly written, that's down to personal perception and obviously people have differing opinions there. As for the 'it's not REAL bdsm' or 'it's not SSC, its just abuse': get real with yourself. Firstly, there is no 'REAL' bdsm and actually hundreds of resources warn people just entering the scene about the dangers of people who display that attitude. BDSM relationships are what the couple make of them. Secondly, SSC is, i agree, the mantra of RESPONSIBLE people in the scene, but to portray that everyone who plays uses those guidelines isn't honest. I myself know of a D in hull who blatantly states that he will not allow safe words and that once a s agrees to play with him anything goes and any attempts to stop play will be met with increased efforts on his part. I know of a s in London who just pulls random guys in pubs or clubs and takes them down to her own dungeon at home with zero discussion of limits or idea if they know what they're doing or not. Real life is much scarier than anything in the book and definitely does more to harm perception of the scene than the portrayal of a fictional character. Christian being controlling and abusive? I only wish that my abusive and controlling ex husband had been as thoughtful as christian gray. Unfortunately, he wasn't. And that's the rub. For every instance cited by someone about how he was abusive, there's an instance of him not being. She was a virgin, they scream.... Yeah, and he took her virginity, with her consent, in a vanilla way. He undressed her when she was d*unk, they scream. Yeah, but not to have sex with her. He took her clothes off to put her to bed after she'd been sick and he watched over her without touching her. At once time people would've seen that as what was reasonably expected from fellow humans. What does it say about us that it is now seen as abuse? The whole draw of the books for women is twofold, firstly that C is 'fifty shades of fucked up, baby' but does truly fall in love with ana and does change for her. That they fight and find the middle ground to make it work. The fact that they do it with spicy passionate sex is the icing on the cake. Ultimately, this fifty shades phenomena doesn't hurt the public profile of bdsm culture by making it more acceptable, even where the errors lay, but the bdsm scene screaming at the tops of its lungs in rebellion just might do some harm. " | |||
"I'm vanilla in the bdsm scenario. 50 shades did tickle my taste buds when I read the books. I have been tempted to try some additional play and did use handcuffs a while ago, it didn't turn me on but maybe I wasn't ready, who knows. I will probably get a bit of a rant back at me but if I ever choose to try bdsm then a Christian Grey type would appeal to me.
I think it's great that the book has gotten people interested in finding new and different ways to diversify their sex life. My issue was with how a Bdsm relationship was portrayed by the books and how the bdsm scene may by perceived by those wishing to try it.
People have come onto the bdsm scene looking for their Christian Grey or Ana Steele to be left sorely disappointed. People have also dived head first into using rope without a full understanding of the potential damage that prolonged nerve crushing can cause.
Maybe it's because of the type of play that I get involved in and have been involved in that has lead me to being so passionate about consent as it's so important to me to ensure all those involved understand all the risks (the D type and s type).
Anyone wanting to get involved in bdsm should do so by first educating themselves on the risks that are involved with what they are planning and learning how to minimise risks and what to do if it goes wrong.
crystal"I'd always research something new for me that is linked with Fab. I did meet a man when I joined who was a bit dominant, he was my first meet and had the demeanour of a Christian Grey. We met regularly for a few months and I had a great time, he did actually give me a safeword. Unfortunately things ended, I will admit I'm still looking for a similar guy in all aspects, mainly his attitude towards women. | |||
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