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Grammar Nazism .....
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
"This one came up the other day and it was quite useful - bear in mind I don't use any social media at all and it was the use of @
@BrightonSteve "
What was the context, saw that recently somewhere but can't remember? |
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Listening to Steve Weight recently and he said that languages evolve naturally in such a way that an educated person would be unable to read and understand fully their native language in 500 years. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"This one came up the other day and it was quite useful - bear in mind I don't use any social media at all and it was the use of @
@BrightonSteve "
#oldgit  |
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"Listening to Steve Weight recently and he said that languages evolve naturally in such a way that an educated person would be unable to read and understand fully their native language in 500 years."
Steve Weight
Unintentional Im sure but good all the same |
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"What IS this new craze for making nouns into verbs? ?
Inbox me? NO!! Message me!!
Tut tut! !
 "
Its x2 characters less, I understand why myself and others use the words. Its not an email and is slightly less than perhaps the correct way of saying it.
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"Listening to Steve Weight recently and he said that languages evolve naturally in such a way that an educated person would be unable to read and understand fully their native language in 500 years.
Steve Weight
Unintentional Im sure but good all the same"
Lol! yes unintentional but the best ones often are. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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How can the evolution of language be wrong? It's like saying evolution of the human race is wrong. We'd all be grunting and sending smoke signals to each other  |
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It's my pet peeve too. I have to deal with a whole bundle of grammatically challenged exam papers every semester. I do understand that language evolves over time, but I fear that sheer laziness underlies much of these changes. |
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"This one came up the other day and it was quite useful - bear in mind I don't use any social media at all and it was the use of @
@BrightonSteve
What was the context, saw that recently somewhere but can't remember? "
It was a thread but I can't recall which one. Reason being I'm a hash tag old git according to ol' drippy bum |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
"How can the evolution of language be wrong? It's like saying evolution of the human race is wrong. We'd all be grunting and sending smoke signals to each other "
But there is evolution and there is deterioration - should text speak become the norm just because it uses less characters and is 'easier'?
Is it an improvement of the word ask to pronounce it aks for instance? |
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"How can the evolution of language be wrong? It's like saying evolution of the human race is wrong. We'd all be grunting and sending smoke signals to each other
But there is evolution and there is deterioration - should text speak become the norm just because it uses less characters and is 'easier'?
Is it an improvement of the word ask to pronounce it aks for instance? "
What gives me hope is that many of these trends are fads and are likely ephemeral in their impact. They will die out in a Darwinian blaze, meeting an inglorious end  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I fail to see how message me or inbox me or email me or text me is laziness. It's an evolution of the language based on the technology we are using. Admittedly we didn't say letter me or telegraph me in the past but we are less constrained now by the rules. The rules were only created by someone assuming authority to tell others how they should speak or write. Frankly I like the way language evolves and I am at liberty to make up words and see if they take off .... like voluptuosity |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How can the evolution of language be wrong? It's like saying evolution of the human race is wrong. We'd all be grunting and sending smoke signals to each other
But there is evolution and there is deterioration - should text speak become the norm just because it uses less characters and is 'easier'?
Is it an improvement of the word ask to pronounce it aks for instance? "
No that's not an improvement and I guess those that aren't will fall by the wayside. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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But it's evolved already - we no longer say sentences beginning with "thou" etc etc. I was looking around a graveyard the other day at graves going back to 1830 & some of the words 200 years ago have to be deciphered even now. So I guess our language will be the same. |
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When I'm the next Benign World Dictator (pat.pending) one of my first decrees shall be that all Forum members will submit their post(s), via fax, in hand written form using a black ink fountain pen. Only the neatest and grammatically correct will be published.
Now to just finalise the land-line to my secret, hollowed out volcano |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How can the evolution of language be wrong? It's like saying evolution of the human race is wrong. We'd all be grunting and sending smoke signals to each other
But there is evolution and there is deterioration - should text speak become the norm just because it uses less characters and is 'easier'?
Is it an improvement of the word ask to pronounce it aks for instance?
What gives me hope is that many of these trends are fads and are likely ephemeral in their impact. They will die out in a Darwinian blaze, meeting an inglorious end "
Agreed. Hopefully what is useful will last, along with what is aesthetic, tasteful, deliciously vulgar etc. |
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"I fail to see how message me or inbox me or email me or text me is laziness. It's an evolution of the language based on the technology we are using. Admittedly we didn't say letter me or telegraph me in the past but we are less constrained now by the rules. The rules were only created by someone assuming authority to tell others how they should speak or write. Frankly I like the way language evolves and I am at liberty to make up words and see if they take off .... like voluptuosity "
Therein lies the rub. Technology will continue to have a very strong impact on language. New words will be created. I think where you and I may disagree on is the subversion of existing principles. I have no problem with new words and new rules but have major problems with violations of fundamental precepts. By all means, let's perpetuate voluptuousity and see if it takes off. Just don't make a verb of it! |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
"How can the evolution of language be wrong? It's like saying evolution of the human race is wrong. We'd all be grunting and sending smoke signals to each other
But there is evolution and there is deterioration - should text speak become the norm just because it uses less characters and is 'easier'?
Is it an improvement of the word ask to pronounce it aks for instance?
What gives me hope is that many of these trends are fads and are likely ephemeral in their impact. They will die out in a Darwinian blaze, meeting an inglorious end "
Yes, I am far less annoyed by novel uses of words that are not rooted in laziness or ignorance - the latter being a classic example. If enough people use it to mean 'the act of ignoring something' I guess we'll be stuck with it. But oh the irony!
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I suspect that the use of the word message as a verb is in itself an example of the evolution of language. From looking at a dictionary, it appears to be defined as "to send someone a text message." |
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"How can the evolution of language be wrong? It's like saying evolution of the human race is wrong. We'd all be grunting and sending smoke signals to each other
But there is evolution and there is deterioration - should text speak become the norm just because it uses less characters and is 'easier'?
Is it an improvement of the word ask to pronounce it aks for instance? "
I'm sure that the victorians and the georgians etc felt the same as their languages evolved into what we use now. |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
"I fail to see how message me or inbox me or email me or text me is laziness. It's an evolution of the language based on the technology we are using. Admittedly we didn't say letter me or telegraph me in the past but we are less constrained now by the rules. The rules were only created by someone assuming authority to tell others how they should speak or write. Frankly I like the way language evolves and I am at liberty to make up words and see if they take off .... like voluptuosity
Therein lies the rub. Technology will continue to have a very strong impact on language. New words will be created. I think where you and I may disagree on is the subversion of existing principles. I have no problem with new words and new rules but have major problems with violations of fundamental precepts. By all means, let's perpetuate voluptuousity and see if it takes off. Just don't make a verb of it!"
Haha yes! Or rather no! |
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"I suspect that the use of the word message as a verb is in itself an example of the evolution of language. From looking at a dictionary, it appears to be defined as "to send someone a text message.""
Perhaps someone on a forum like this meant to say "massage me" and just misspelt it |
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"But it's evolved already - we no longer say sentences beginning with "thou" etc etc. I was looking around a graveyard the other day at graves going back to 1830 & some of the words 200 years ago have to be deciphered even now. So I guess our language will be the same. "
You don't live in Sheffield where thee, thou and tha' are in frequent usage! |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
"I suspect that the use of the word message as a verb is in itself an example of the evolution of language. From looking at a dictionary, it appears to be defined as "to send someone a text message.""
But we have had the word in use as a verb for many other messaging systems. I have no problem with the meaning evolving with technology - 'phone me' is a classic example. Hoover the carpet. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I fail to see how message me or inbox me or email me or text me is laziness. It's an evolution of the language based on the technology we are using. Admittedly we didn't say letter me or telegraph me in the past but we are less constrained now by the rules. The rules were only created by someone assuming authority to tell others how they should speak or write. Frankly I like the way language evolves and I am at liberty to make up words and see if they take off .... like voluptuosity
Therein lies the rub. Technology will continue to have a very strong impact on language. New words will be created. I think where you and I may disagree on is the subversion of existing principles. I have no problem with new words and new rules but have major problems with violations of fundamental precepts. By all means, let's perpetuate voluptuousity and see if it takes off. Just don't make a verb of it!"
The principles are fine until they constrain the unfolding process beyond what is necessary. As you say the Darwinian principle will apply. Adaptation. Those things that are most appropriate to the changing context will survive and those that aren't will die out.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Listening to Steve Weight recently and he said that languages evolve naturally in such a way that an educated person would be unable to read and understand fully their native language in 500 years."
He does talk shite and his radio show is shit too.
Most people now would still be able to make sense of Middle English going back 500+ years. It's a lot different, but still understandable.
People believed a couple of hundred years ago that English in the US, Australia and England would become unintelligible to each other - possibly they might have but the way we communicate today actually bought them closer together not further apart.
The impact of the other 'big' languages might make more of a change, depending on who pulls the strings in the world and dominates the Internet. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But it's evolved already - we no longer say sentences beginning with "thou" etc etc. I was looking around a graveyard the other day at graves going back to 1830 & some of the words 200 years ago have to be deciphered even now. So I guess our language will be the same.
You don't live in Sheffield where thee, thou and tha' are in frequent usage!"
Oh yes I didn't think about colloquialisms. We have graaaaaasssss & sayings like " over yon tump ! " |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
"Could u not argue the word 'message' is also a noun??
'Can you bring me the message?'
"
Oh it is indeed, but it has always been a verb too. And there is a qualititive difference in the use of the word inbox on my opinion. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Listening to Steve Weight recently and he said that languages evolve naturally in such a way that an educated person would be unable to read and understand fully their native language in 500 years.
He does talk shite and his radio show is shit too.
Most people now would still be able to make sense of Middle English going back 500+ years. It's a lot different, but still understandable.
People believed a couple of hundred years ago that English in the US, Australia and England would become unintelligible to each other - possibly they might have but the way we communicate today actually bought them closer together not further apart.
The impact of the other 'big' languages might make more of a change, depending on who pulls the strings in the world and dominates the Internet."
But we'll evolve and cope with the hange in language and we'll study texts like we've studied Shakespeare or Chaucer to maintain our understanding.
So we'll look back on phrases like inbox me and text me and think how quaint rather than the user is an ingnorant quaint lol |
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"I fail to see how message me or inbox me or email me or text me is laziness. It's an evolution of the language based on the technology we are using. Admittedly we didn't say letter me or telegraph me in the past but we are less constrained now by the rules. The rules were only created by someone assuming authority to tell others how they should speak or write. Frankly I like the way language evolves and I am at liberty to make up words and see if they take off .... like voluptuosity
Therein lies the rub. Technology will continue to have a very strong impact on language. New words will be created. I think where you and I may disagree on is the subversion of existing principles. I have no problem with new words and new rules but have major problems with violations of fundamental precepts. By all means, let's perpetuate voluptuousity and see if it takes off. Just don't make a verb of it!
The principles are fine until they constrain the unfolding process beyond what is necessary. As you say the Darwinian principle will apply. Adaptation. Those things that are most appropriate to the changing context will survive and those that aren't will die out.
"
There are good mutations and bad mutations - even DNA replicates by certain rules, which if grossly violated, could lead to cancers. I am not saying that change is bad. I just think ordered chaos is better than white noise |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The thing I object to the most is the use of 'Nazism' as verb to imply a 'authoritarian activity' on the construct of language.
Nazism is a contraction of National Socialism [Nationalsozialismus] and is a form of fascist ideology founded on biological supremacy, antisemitism and racism.
Its not, or never should be, used in the context of describing someone who is concerned with punctuation, grammar or language.
Because if it were, 'Nazism' [by that definition] is alive and well and being taught in every secondary school the length and breadth of the UK.
Please, just don't use it out of its proper context - it's a word that should never be used lightly. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The thing I object to the most is the use of 'Nazism' as verb to imply a 'authoritarian activity' on the construct of language.
Nazism is a contraction of National Socialism [Nationalsozialismus] and is a form of fascist ideology founded on biological supremacy, antisemitism and racism.
Its not, or never should be, used in the context of describing someone who is concerned with punctuation, grammar or language.
Because if it were, 'Nazism' [by that definition] is alive and well and being taught in every secondary school the length and breadth of the UK.
Please, just don't use it out of its proper context - it's a word that should never be used lightly. "
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Listening to Steve Weight recently and he said that languages evolve naturally in such a way that an educated person would be unable to read and understand fully their native language in 500 years.
He does talk shite and his radio show is shit too.
Most people now would still be able to make sense of Middle English going back 500+ years. It's a lot different, but still understandable.
People believed a couple of hundred years ago that English in the US, Australia and England would become unintelligible to each other - possibly they might have but the way we communicate today actually bought them closer together not further apart.
The impact of the other 'big' languages might make more of a change, depending on who pulls the strings in the world and dominates the Internet.
But we'll evolve and cope with the hange in language and we'll study texts like we've studied Shakespeare or Chaucer to maintain our understanding.
So we'll look back on phrases like inbox me and text me and think how quaint rather than the user is an ingnorant quaint lol "
But I doubt language will change in the same way. There isn't very much writing about from before the 15th century so we don't see it that much. Also writing has changed more than how we speak - olde spelling was very experimental during those times.
Now we have text everywhere all across the world and in endless formats and so we're more likely to continue with the same.
New words will come and go but I think the core language won't change too much, certainly not to the point that we won't understand our own language in a few hundred years.
Having said that - automatic translations could have a massive impact on language.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I fail to see how message me or inbox me or email me or text me is laziness. It's an evolution of the language based on the technology we are using. Admittedly we didn't say letter me or telegraph me in the past but we are less constrained now by the rules. The rules were only created by someone assuming authority to tell others how they should speak or write. Frankly I like the way language evolves and I am at liberty to make up words and see if they take off .... like voluptuosity
Therein lies the rub. Technology will continue to have a very strong impact on language. New words will be created. I think where you and I may disagree on is the subversion of existing principles. I have no problem with new words and new rules but have major problems with violations of fundamental precepts. By all means, let's perpetuate voluptuousity and see if it takes off. Just don't make a verb of it!
The principles are fine until they constrain the unfolding process beyond what is necessary. As you say the Darwinian principle will apply. Adaptation. Those things that are most appropriate to the changing context will survive and those that aren't will die out.
There are good mutations and bad mutations - even DNA replicates by certain rules, which if grossly violated, could lead to cancers. I am not saying that change is bad. I just think ordered chaos is better than white noise "
Ah...but whose order are we imposing on the chaos, assuming you could impose an order on the chaos? Perhaps the chaos has its own implicate order that we can't see yet |
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"What IS this new craze for making nouns into verbs? ?
Inbox me? NO!! Message me!!
Tut tut! !
"
I see where you are coming from. As am French I will try to make sense 
There is a place for both... for what I will call 'proper' English to be used when you need to be formal, at work and schools etc... and a place for the 'evolved' English for instance on here, between friends, when you need to be informal or simply when you want to have fun.
I speak 4 languages fluently and I like having fun with words... I don't know how many Franco-English words I have invented over the last 15 years here to make myself understood or for a laugh that my friends are actually using now and their kids will too! It's fun.
It's like text speech in an exam or formal email... It's a no-no.
I think it's not all bad as long as people know when 'evolved' English is appropriate to use or not.
Hope this will make sense to someone |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Listening to Steve Weight recently and he said that languages evolve naturally in such a way that an educated person would be unable to read and understand fully their native language in 500 years.
He does talk shite and his radio show is shit too.
Most people now would still be able to make sense of Middle English going back 500+ years. It's a lot different, but still understandable.
People believed a couple of hundred years ago that English in the US, Australia and England would become unintelligible to each other - possibly they might have but the way we communicate today actually bought them closer together not further apart.
The impact of the other 'big' languages might make more of a change, depending on who pulls the strings in the world and dominates the Internet.
But we'll evolve and cope with the hange in language and we'll study texts like we've studied Shakespeare or Chaucer to maintain our understanding.
So we'll look back on phrases like inbox me and text me and think how quaint rather than the user is an ingnorant quaint lol
But I doubt language will change in the same way. There isn't very much writing about from before the 15th century so we don't see it that much. Also writing has changed more than how we speak - olde spelling was very experimental during those times.
Now we have text everywhere all across the world and in endless formats and so we're more likely to continue with the same.
New words will come and go but I think the core language won't change too much, certainly not to the point that we won't understand our own language in a few hundred years.
Having said that - automatic translations could have a massive impact on language.."
Have you used Word Lens? It's brilliant. Translated a Swedish menu by pointing my phone camera at it. Instant translation
I agree by the way |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Have you used Word Lens? It's brilliant. Translated a Swedish menu by pointing my phone camera at it. Instant translation
I agree by the way "
I'll try it next time in Ikea
What is really weird is how well the people that wrote Star Trek seem to have predicted mobile phones! |
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"Words evolve as we change our needs to use them. Fuck,for instance: Let's fuck; you complete fuck; oh fuck."
Add in the fact that it was simply the Anglo Saxon word for sex but became taboo language when Norman French, the language of the conqueror, became the language of the ruling people and then the progenitor of modern English.
(*taboo - from tapu, the Maori word to express forbidden in the most serious manner, generally referring to sacred places and objects that were forbidden) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Have you used Word Lens? It's brilliant. Translated a Swedish menu by pointing my phone camera at it. Instant translation
I agree by the way
I'll try it next time in Ikea
What is really weird is how well the people that wrote Star Trek seem to have predicted mobile phones!"
Teleportation would be good right now |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
"The thing I object to the most is the use of 'Nazism' as verb to imply a 'authoritarian activity' on the construct of language.
Nazism is a contraction of National Socialism [Nationalsozialismus] and is a form of fascist ideology founded on biological supremacy, antisemitism and racism.
Its not, or never should be, used in the context of describing someone who is concerned with punctuation, grammar or language.
Because if it were, 'Nazism' [by that definition] is alive and well and being taught in every secondary school the length and breadth of the UK.
Please, just don't use it out of its proper context - it's a word that should never be used lightly. "
Point taken. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Words evolve as we change our needs to use them. Fuck,for instance: Let's fuck; you complete fuck; oh fuck.
Add in the fact that it was simply the Anglo Saxon word for sex but became taboo language when Norman French, the language of the conqueror, became the language of the ruling people and then the progenitor of modern English.
(*taboo - from tapu, the Maori word to express forbidden in the most serious manner, generally referring to sacred places and objects that were forbidden)"
Nice one  |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
"Yep it's almost as unfathomable as choosing to use terms like Nazism simply to highlight relatively inoffensive behaviour like bad spelling or grammar.... don't ya think....   "
Ah no, the use of the word Nazism would only be in reference to MY intolerance of bad grammar in this case, and decidedly tongue in cheek.
But I take the point - there are better words to use. |
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"Words evolve as we change our needs to use them. Fuck,for instance: Let's fuck; you complete fuck; oh fuck.
Add in the fact that it was simply the Anglo Saxon word for sex but became taboo language when Norman French, the language of the conqueror, became the language of the ruling people and then the progenitor of modern English.
(*taboo - from tapu, the Maori word to express forbidden in the most serious manner, generally referring to sacred places and objects that were forbidden)
Nice one "
English is a mongrel language. We collect words from everywhere and always have done. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Words evolve as we change our needs to use them. Fuck,for instance: Let's fuck; you complete fuck; oh fuck.
Add in the fact that it was simply the Anglo Saxon word for sex but became taboo language when Norman French, the language of the conqueror, became the language of the ruling people and then the progenitor of modern English.
(*taboo - from tapu, the Maori word to express forbidden in the most serious manner, generally referring to sacred places and objects that were forbidden)"
This is getting nice and nerdy
Progenitor is a bit strong though - French mostly just added to the language - Deer/Venison, Cow/Beef etc. It's what the posh people were speaking while the peasants got on with farming and fucking. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Yep it's almost as unfathomable as choosing to use terms like Nazism simply to highlight relatively inoffensive behaviour like bad spelling or grammar.... don't ya think....
Ah no, the use of the word Nazism would only be in reference to MY intolerance of bad grammar in this case, and decidedly tongue in cheek.
But I take the point - there are better words to use."
Oo'er....... I sentence you to write out 100 times "My-Bad"..... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Words evolve as we change our needs to use them. Fuck,for instance: Let's fuck; you complete fuck; oh fuck.
Add in the fact that it was simply the Anglo Saxon word for sex but became taboo language when Norman French, the language of the conqueror, became the language of the ruling people and then the progenitor of modern English.
(*taboo - from tapu, the Maori word to express forbidden in the most serious manner, generally referring to sacred places and objects that were forbidden)
This is getting nice and nerdy
Progenitor is a bit strong though - French mostly just added to the language - Deer/Venison, Cow/Beef etc. It's what the posh people were speaking while the peasants got on with farming and fucking."
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
"Yep it's almost as unfathomable as choosing to use terms like Nazism simply to highlight relatively inoffensive behaviour like bad spelling or grammar.... don't ya think....
Ah no, the use of the word Nazism would only be in reference to MY intolerance of bad grammar in this case, and decidedly tongue in cheek.
But I take the point - there are better words to use.
Oo'er....... I sentence you to write out 100 times "My-Bad"..... "
Only if it's in the Oxford Dictionary??
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"What IS this new craze for making nouns into verbs? ?
Inbox me? NO!! Message me!!
Tut tut! !
"
"what we have here, is a failure to communicate"
Language , is employed to express emotion or to communicate practicalities, to instruct or to construct.
How many novels have you read written in text speak?
Apathy and ignorance will not hinder communication; so txt spk is here to stay. You have the option to embrace it, shun it or merely tolerate it. Can ya dig it sistah? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I suspect that the use of the word message as a verb is in itself an example of the evolution of language. From looking at a dictionary, it appears to be defined as "to send someone a text message.""
I was wrong. According to one source, the use of the word as a verb can be traced back to the thirteenth century. There you go. |
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