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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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My company has decided that they will do a lot of training courses on line now.
What I want to ask is seeing as how it's training for work should they expect us to do it on our own time and without payment when any courses that need hands on is within works time or if not we are brought into work on a day off and paid.
I hope that makes sense.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"My company has decided that they will do a lot of training courses on line now.
What I want to ask is seeing as how it's training for work should they expect us to do it on our own time and without payment when any courses that need hands on is within works time or if not we are brought into work on a day off and paid.
I hope that makes sense.
"
Training with reputable companies is done in works time however its not unreasonable to expect people to do a little homework in addition as both individual and company benefit from it. If there is no benefit to yourself then you need to point this out to your company and ask with no benefit what is the justification for asking you to do it in your own time.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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We have had this change at my company too..
It depends on ur employment contract.
My contract states I should be compliant with training.but does not state I should do so im my own time.
Therefore they have no grounds to make me do it in my own time. As long as im willing to do it, albeit only if paid for my time, im being compliant
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"We have had this change at my company too..
It depends on ur employment contract.
My contract states I should be compliant with training.but does not state I should do so im my own time.
Therefore they have no grounds to make me do it in my own time. As long as im willing to do it, albeit only if paid for my time, im being compliant
"
Your contract only covers your contracted hours anyway. It can't dictate what you do in your own time.
Even if your contract attempted to dictate what you do outside of work hours, it'd never stand up legally.
If you're contracted to be willing to do training, it means in work time, with pay. |
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We use 50/50 online and practical training course. Well when I say practical, I mean death by Powerpoint.
Any online training has to be done on work premises, either our office, or one of the local delivery units. So we are paid for any time we use to complete them. We aren't paid for travelling time though, because we are expected to use whichever delivery unit is closest to us. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"We have had this change at my company too..
It depends on ur employment contract.
My contract states I should be compliant with training.but does not state I should do so im my own time.
Therefore they have no grounds to make me do it in my own time. As long as im willing to do it, albeit only if paid for my time, im being compliant
Your contract only covers your contracted hours anyway. It can't dictate what you do in your own time.
Even if your contract attempted to dictate what you do outside of work hours, it'd never stand up legally.
If you're contracted to be willing to do training, it means in work time, with pay."
Been in job 2 years and so far nearest we have got to a contract is asked to check them, right down anything we not sure of and then them being sent back to HR so have never signed one. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We have had this change at my company too..
It depends on ur employment contract.
My contract states I should be compliant with training.but does not state I should do so im my own time.
Therefore they have no grounds to make me do it in my own time. As long as im willing to do it, albeit only if paid for my time, im being compliant
Your contract only covers your contracted hours anyway. It can't dictate what you do in your own time.
Even if your contract attempted to dictate what you do outside of work hours, it'd never stand up legally.
If you're contracted to be willing to do training, it means in work time, with pay."
Is that entirely correct? Many employment contracts these days state that although normal working hours are X to Y, supplementary work outside and in addition to those hours may be required from time to time. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We have had this change at my company too..
It depends on ur employment contract.
My contract states I should be compliant with training.but does not state I should do so im my own time.
Therefore they have no grounds to make me do it in my own time. As long as im willing to do it, albeit only if paid for my time, im being compliant
Your contract only covers your contracted hours anyway. It can't dictate what you do in your own time.
Even if your contract attempted to dictate what you do outside of work hours, it'd never stand up legally.
If you're contracted to be willing to do training, it means in work time, with pay.
Is that entirely correct? Many employment contracts these days state that although normal working hours are X to Y, supplementary work outside and in addition to those hours may be required from time to time."
maybe but I doubt they are allowed to make you do it for free. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Well, that depends on the contract ... Mine does state that it is done for free. It is always subject to the test of reasonableness."
But what's reasonable? especially if you only getting paid minimum wage anyway. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Well, that depends on the contract ... Mine does state that it is done for free. It is always subject to the test of reasonableness.
But what's reasonable? especially if you only getting paid minimum wage anyway."
It would not stand up in a minimum wage case as the minimum wage is based on an hourly rate. However, for other contracts, it is a common clause. Reasonableness is a test used in many areas of the law and always open to interpretation. I am not sure that the definition of reasonableness has moved on since Lord Denning's "man on the Clapham omnibus" even though that would be a rare sight these days! |
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Would expect the course in working time. Maybe flexible on running late so that course can be completed within a few days. If in the evening then cutoff time of 21:00 as sleepy heads tend not to concentrate. Hope the boss is reasonable about the schedule. |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"We have had this change at my company too..
It depends on ur employment contract.
My contract states I should be compliant with training.but does not state I should do so im my own time.
Therefore they have no grounds to make me do it in my own time. As long as im willing to do it, albeit only if paid for my time, im being compliant
Your contract only covers your contracted hours anyway. It can't dictate what you do in your own time.
Even if your contract attempted to dictate what you do outside of work hours, it'd never stand up legally.
If you're contracted to be willing to do training, it means in work time, with pay.
Is that entirely correct? Many employment contracts these days state that although normal working hours are X to Y, supplementary work outside and in addition to those hours may be required from time to time."
As far as I am aware, a contract covers the hours you are contracted to work and the terms of your job. You're employed for a certain number of hours to do a job. Your employer, regardless of what some seem to think, does not own your life and cannot force you to work for free, or for more hours than contracted.
I know someone who successfully won a constructive dismissal case after being sacked for refusing to work more than their contracted hours without pay.
However, I am not a solicitor so if this applies to you, check with one before taking action. |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"As I stated, it depends on the terms of the employment contract."
I don't think an employment contract can cover what you do in your own time. It's for the hours you are contracted to work, (and therefore entitled to pay and other work related benefits, such as holiday accrual). You can choose to do extra, unpaid work but I don't think an employer can demand it of you.
Unpaid = not employment = not covered by an employment contract
Anything else would not pass the test of reasonableness, IMO. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As I stated, it depends on the terms of the employment contract.
I don't think an employment contract can cover what you do in your own time. It's for the hours you are contracted to work, (and therefore entitled to pay and other work related benefits, such as holiday accrual). You can choose to do extra, unpaid work but I don't think an employer can demand it of you.
Unpaid = not employment = not covered by an employment contract
Anything else would not pass the test of reasonableness, IMO."
I understand the logic but employment law dictates otherwise. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Although you should not normally be asked to work more than an average of 48 hours per week over a 17 week period, unless you have specifically opted out of that protection in writing and not cancelled the opt out. |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"As I stated, it depends on the terms of the employment contract.
I don't think an employment contract can cover what you do in your own time. It's for the hours you are contracted to work, (and therefore entitled to pay and other work related benefits, such as holiday accrual). You can choose to do extra, unpaid work but I don't think an employer can demand it of you.
Unpaid = not employment = not covered by an employment contract
Anything else would not pass the test of reasonableness, IMO.
I understand the logic but employment law dictates otherwise."
No, I don't think it does.
A quick search, as I am about to go out, shows training is part of the working week.
The only exception is if the employer is sponsoring or otherwise supporting an employee to do a course they want to do, in their own time, (e.g. a degree) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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That would be right. But if you are within the 48 hour limit (without having opted out), and your contract states that you may be expected to work longer than your contracted hours from time to time, then you cannot be expected to be paid for taking part in a training course. |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
Ok... For salaried workers who have it in their contract that occasional extra hours may be required, it's a slightly grey area but can be considered reasonable if it is occasional and does not exceed the 48-hr working week.
Otherwise the company, if challenged, are not likely to get away with it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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weve been told this too is happening soon - we dont get paid for our training times and go in on our days off - so happier to do some when i choose not in a given slot - still think we should be paid for it though as the job already involves us giving a lot of our time for bugger all |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ok... For salaried workers who have it in their contract that occasional extra hours may be required, it's a slightly grey area but can be considered reasonable if it is occasional and does not exceed the 48-hr working week.
Otherwise the company, if challenged, are not likely to get away with it."
That is a good summary, yes. |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"That would be right. But if you are within the 48 hour limit (without having opted out), and your contract states that you may be expected to work longer than your contracted hours from time to time, then you cannot be expected to be paid for taking part in a training course."
Ah, ok yes, I see what you mean now. I'd misunderstood what you were saying.
I think you're right that it would come down to reasonableness for salaried workers. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Have done this in past employment and it was accepted to be done during normal working hours, although each external person could decide for themselves how to plan their day and do this out of working hours if they chose. |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"weve been told this too is happening soon - we dont get paid for our training times and go in on our days off - so happier to do some when i choose not in a given slot - still think we should be paid for it though as the job already involves us giving a lot of our time for bugger all "
As above, is it in your contract and are you salaried? |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
Personally, since my job (when I had one) involved a lot of impromptu unsociable hours, additional unpaid hours and being on-call most of the time without any prior arrangement, I flatly refused to do training in my own time.
They paid me or gave me time in lieu or they'd have found I was no longer available when things went pear-shaped at midnight or something failed at the end of my work day.
We were usually able to negotiate a satisfactory arrangement. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"weve been told this too is happening soon - we dont get paid for our training times and go in on our days off - so happier to do some when i choose not in a given slot - still think we should be paid for it though as the job already involves us giving a lot of our time for bugger all
As above, is it in your contract and are you salaried?"
i am a community care worker - work day alters every day and dont get paid time in between visits - we have to renew stuff such as health and safety, manual handling etc every so often and usually given a few slots to go into office for this as we all work higgledy piggledy shifts - some of this is now going online so be easier in that sense - |
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