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Euthanasia
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"Seeing as this is just theoretical...how about adding those who havent worked for years to the list?....would save a bomb " Well its a point to be considered. If for instance someone hadn't worked for say...4/5 years maybe they should have to go before a panel to prove their worth to society. | |||
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"Can I be on the panel "If you apply i am sure you would be considered. Its a serious issue though as the country is billions in debt. We need to look at the biggest expenditures and pensions and benefits are high ion the agenda. Can we really justify letting someone claim benefits from 50 years to god for bid 90 years and expect the working man to foot the bill for those 40 years. At £5,000 per year over a 40 year rate its 200k WITHOUT inflation. Thats a lot of taxes on a hard working man or woman. | |||
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"Is it about time the government reviewed this issue? Ethnically it might not be the done thing but with the state of the economy the huge reduction in pension payments would reduce the deficit in the economy. Is it one cut too far though?" Ethnically?!! Freudian slip?!!   | |||
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"This is very relevant personally at the moment. My father is in hospital with Parkinsons and dementia, hasn't a clue about anything, no quality of life, and nobody has yet recovered from dementia, so.....??" They can treat Parkinsons to some extent if caught early enough but in the advanced stages I don’t know how medicine stands currently on this. I do believe though we should provide a level of dignity for people and I think that if someone has made a living will ( I think that’s what its called) then they should have the right to pass away in other ways than starve. It is an area fraught with problems though and passing legalisation on this looks a long way away in the UK. | |||
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"Euthanasia as a means to end unnecessary suffering is one thing, and a valid, relevant issue for any government to look at. However, euthanasia as a means to help reign in the budget deficit? ....... in the famous words of Mr J McEnroe.....You cannot be serious? "Take no notice Stu,this guy was taking pops at the older members on the site all day yesterday about 8 seperate posts, all at elderly people and older members ,its just an agenda to get at someone i suspect....either that or we have a genuine Ageist | |||
"Euthanasia as a means to end unnecessary suffering is one thing, and a valid, relevant issue for any government to look at. However, euthanasia as a means to help reign in the budget deficit? ....... in the famous words of Mr J McEnroe.....You cannot be serious?
Take no notice Stu,this guy was taking pops at the older members on the site all day yesterday about 8 seperate posts, all at elderly people and older members ,its just an agenda to get at someone i suspect....either that or we have a genuine Ageist "Looks like you ARE stirring! It’s a thread about Euthanasia which is is a much debated topic over the last few years. I don’t think financial reasons for promoting it are good but people should be allowed dignity and the right to choose.  | |||
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"this may seem a silly question but IF this was to be allowed who would do the aelection and killing?" Now that's a good question. There are many people who would choose this option right now. Some even travel abroad and its been documented some family's have had police investigations for assisting. Ideally it would be a trained medical officer who can do it painlessly. | |||
"Euthanasia as a means to end unnecessary suffering is one thing, and a valid, relevant issue for any government to look at. However, euthanasia as a means to help reign in the budget deficit? ....... in the famous words of Mr J McEnroe.....You cannot be serious?
Take no notice Stu,this guy was taking pops at the older members on the site all day yesterday about 8 seperate posts, all at elderly people and older members ,its just an agenda to get at someone i suspect....either that or we have a genuine Ageist
Looks like you ARE stirring! It’s a thread about Euthanasia which is is a much debated topic over the last few years. I don’t think financial reasons for promoting it are good but people should be allowed dignity and the right to choose. "ohh i agree the subject is valid in terms of alleviating suffering but to then link it to poor unemployed people is a bit sick if you ask me .. ..i was unemployed once and the self esteem plummets ...i find the concept of attacking people for there age or ability to be financially active abhorrent | |||
"Euthanasia as a means to end unnecessary suffering is one thing, and a valid, relevant issue for any government to look at. However, euthanasia as a means to help reign in the budget deficit? ....... in the famous words of Mr J McEnroe.....You cannot be serious?
Take no notice Stu,this guy was taking pops at the older members on the site all day yesterday about 8 seperate posts, all at elderly people and older members ,its just an agenda to get at someone i suspect....either that or we have a genuine Ageist
Looks like you ARE stirring! It’s a thread about Euthanasia which is is a much debated topic over the last few years. I don’t think financial reasons for promoting it are good but people should be allowed dignity and the right to choose.
ohh i agree the subject is valid in terms of alleviating suffering but to then link it to poor unemployed people is a bit sick if you ask me .. ..i was unemployed once and the self esteem plummets ...i find the concept of attacking people for there age or ability to be financially active abhorrent "You do remarkably well for getting on line daytime to say your employed then. | |||
"Euthanasia as a means to end unnecessary suffering is one thing, and a valid, relevant issue for any government to look at. However, euthanasia as a means to help reign in the budget deficit? ....... in the famous words of Mr J McEnroe.....You cannot be serious?
Take no notice Stu,this guy was taking pops at the older members on the site all day yesterday about 8 seperate posts, all at elderly people and older members ,its just an agenda to get at someone i suspect....either that or we have a genuine Ageist
Looks like you ARE stirring! It’s a thread about Euthanasia which is is a much debated topic over the last few years. I don’t think financial reasons for promoting it are good but people should be allowed dignity and the right to choose. "I was not trying to stir, I was merely replying to the original post which suggested the government looks at this again as a way of reducing pension payments and mitigating against the deficit. It is indeed, of itself, a valid subject. I have started threads, and contributed to threads, explaining my views, and explaining why (even though I effectively had doctors kill my father) I do not agree with the idea that we should legislate. | |||
"Euthanasia as a means to end unnecessary suffering is one thing, and a valid, relevant issue for any government to look at. However, euthanasia as a means to help reign in the budget deficit? ....... in the famous words of Mr J McEnroe.....You cannot be serious?
Take no notice Stu,this guy was taking pops at the older members on the site all day yesterday about 8 seperate posts, all at elderly people and older members ,its just an agenda to get at someone i suspect....either that or we have a genuine Ageist
Looks like you ARE stirring! It’s a thread about Euthanasia which is is a much debated topic over the last few years. I don’t think financial reasons for promoting it are good but people should be allowed dignity and the right to choose.
ohh i agree the subject is valid in terms of alleviating suffering but to then link it to poor unemployed people is a bit sick if you ask me .. ..i was unemployed once and the self esteem plummets ...i find the concept of attacking people for there age or ability to be financially active abhorrent
You do remarkably well for getting on line daytime to say your employed then."well that is not really your concern there are loads of ways people can be online during the day ,as are you ,shift workers ,holidays ,laptops being self employed how is that of any relevance ?? | |||
"Euthanasia as a means to end unnecessary suffering is one thing, and a valid, relevant issue for any government to look at. However, euthanasia as a means to help reign in the budget deficit? ....... in the famous words of Mr J McEnroe.....You cannot be serious?
Take no notice Stu,this guy was taking pops at the older members on the site all day yesterday about 8 seperate posts, all at elderly people and older members ,its just an agenda to get at someone i suspect....either that or we have a genuine Ageist
Looks like you ARE stirring! It’s a thread about Euthanasia which is is a much debated topic over the last few years. I don’t think financial reasons for promoting it are good but people should be allowed dignity and the right to choose.
ohh i agree the subject is valid in terms of alleviating suffering but to then link it to poor unemployed people is a bit sick if you ask me .. ..i was unemployed once and the self esteem plummets ...i find the concept of attacking people for there age or ability to be financially active abhorrent
You do remarkably well for getting on line daytime to say your employed then.
well that is not really your concern there are loads of ways people can be online during the day ,as are you ,shift workers ,holidays ,laptops being self employed how is that of any relevance ??"Ooo touchy! Is that a raw nerve then for you? | |||
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"Euthanasia as a means to end unnecessary suffering is one thing, and a valid, relevant issue for any government to look at. However, euthanasia as a means to help reign in the budget deficit? ....... in the famous words of Mr J McEnroe.....You cannot be serious?
Take no notice Stu,this guy was taking pops at the older members on the site all day yesterday about 8 seperate posts, all at elderly people and older members ,its just an agenda to get at someone i suspect....either that or we have a genuine Ageist
Looks like you ARE stirring! It’s a thread about Euthanasia which is is a much debated topic over the last few years. I don’t think financial reasons for promoting it are good but people should be allowed dignity and the right to choose.
ohh i agree the subject is valid in terms of alleviating suffering but to then link it to poor unemployed people is a bit sick if you ask me .. ..i was unemployed once and the self esteem plummets ...i find the concept of attacking people for there age or ability to be financially active abhorrent
You do remarkably well for getting on line daytime to say your employed then.
well that is not really your concern there are loads of ways people can be online during the day ,as are you ,shift workers ,holidays ,laptops being self employed how is that of any relevance ??
Ooo touchy! Is that a raw nerve then for you?"no simply pointing out, how it is that people can be online during the day,are you unemployed then, as you seemed to assume and imply everyone on here during the day is ? if you are commiserations to you hope you get a job soon | |||
"can ppl stop arguing over pettiness....a thread which in honesty brings up a lotta emotion for people in a serious way....slagging each other is so petty !" your so right it does ..its the linkage to economic prowess which debases the legitimate discussion on euthanasia eleviation of suffering | |||
"There are defo circumstances where euthanasia should be an option... My uncle took a heart attack and was brought back to life after 12 minutes....he never recovered properly and was left in a comma like state......he lasted 7 horrible years in this state.........he was a vegetable....incontinent, limbs seized, was peg fed into his stomach, couldnt communicate in any way it was truley ghastly !" I have seen a number of people like this and it is degraded for many and its so hard and painful for the family. I sometimes think we go to far with medicine but its impossible to draw a line as some recover well. A living will is one answer but we should be open to everyone's view on this as its an important subject. | |||
"can ppl stop arguing over pettiness....a thread which in honesty brings up a lotta emotion for people in a serious way....slagging each other is so petty !" Agreed some people drag serious issues of thread for what ever reason. | |||
"There are defo circumstances where euthanasia should be an option... My uncle took a heart attack and was brought back to life after 12 minutes....he never recovered properly and was left in a comma like state......he lasted 7 horrible years in this state.........he was a vegetable....incontinent, limbs seized, was peg fed into his stomach, couldnt communicate in any way it was truley ghastly ! I have seen a number of people like this and it is degraded for many and its so hard and painful for the family. I sometimes think we go to far with medicine but its impossible to draw a line as some recover well. A living will is one answer but we should be open to everyone's view on this as its an important subject." we all have a DO NOT RESUSITATE written after watching what happened to my uncle. | |||
"There are defo circumstances where euthanasia should be an option... My uncle took a heart attack and was brought back to life after 12 minutes....he never recovered properly and was left in a comma like state......he lasted 7 horrible years in this state.........he was a vegetable....incontinent, limbs seized, was peg fed into his stomach, couldnt communicate in any way it was truley ghastly ! I have seen a number of people like this and it is degraded for many and its so hard and painful for the family. I sometimes think we go to far with medicine but its impossible to draw a line as some recover well. A living will is one answer but we should be open to everyone's view on this as its an important subject. we all have a DO NOT RESUSITATE written after watching what happened to my uncle." A friend of mine has had DO NOT RESUSCITATE tattoeed across his chest | |||
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"There are defo circumstances where euthanasia should be an option... My uncle took a heart attack and was brought back to life after 12 minutes....he never recovered properly and was left in a comma like state......he lasted 7 horrible years in this state.........he was a vegetable....incontinent, limbs seized, was peg fed into his stomach, couldnt communicate in any way it was truley ghastly ! I have seen a number of people like this and it is degraded for many and its so hard and painful for the family. I sometimes think we go to far with medicine but its impossible to draw a line as some recover well. A living will is one answer but we should be open to everyone's view on this as its an important subject. we all have a DO NOT RESUSITATE written after watching what happened to my uncle." Its a hard one because you don't want a repeat for your self. However many more recover fine and if they opted for no resuscitation then they would be no more. I think the sensible option would be for the law to be chanced to allow people to die if resuscitated but in such a state they have no quality of life. But then people will debate what is quality of life. There is no easy option on this subject. I do believe we should all have the option of choice though. | |||
"The problem with 'DO NOT RESUSCITATE' is that in many cases accident victims are resuscitated succesfully and go on to lead totally normal and healthy lives...." You so right there. | |||
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"it is a subject with a lot of grey areas, thats for sure.....but so many ppl suffer wheres there is no cure.....its painfull....its not gracefull....and in some cases its purey ghastly....." i thought the comment re unemployed and old people on pensions trivialised a serious issue | |||
"To address the subject the op raised and the subsequent posts advocating euthansia for the unemployed. At what point do you advocate unemployed people are put before this panel ? 3 months ,4 months,1 year 2 ? if people gave up there pension or unemployment benefit would they be "let off" Euthanasia is a serious issue for many people myself included, who faced this with my father and mother ,At one point i seriously considered doing my father in such was the level of his suffering being his carer for 6 months prior to his death.I would of happily done the time ,fortunately for me ,nature took the matter from my hands . " If you can't see it was tongue in cheek then maybe your best avoiding this thread. Like we are all told "if you don't like something then avoid it" With the elderly its a far different matter and its not something to be taken into your own hands. | |||
"it is a subject with a lot of grey areas, thats for sure.....but so many ppl suffer wheres there is no cure.....its painfull....its not gracefull....and in some cases its purey ghastly..... i thought the comment re unemployed and old people on pensions trivialised a serious issue " trivial issue haha it will never be a trivial issue to those watching someone dieing, suffering or not being in control of there own body...........or to the person themselves laying not being in control. | |||
"it is a subject with a lot of grey areas, thats for sure.....but so many ppl suffer wheres there is no cure.....its painfull....its not gracefull....and in some cases its purey ghastly....." Sometimes the family's suffer far more than the patients. Often the patient is drugged or in a vegetative state with just machines keeping them alive. The family's visit daily and they hope amongst hope and its never good for them. | |||
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"it is a subject with a lot of grey areas, thats for sure.....but so many ppl suffer wheres there is no cure.....its painfull....its not gracefull....and in some cases its purey ghastly..... i thought the comment re unemployed and old people on pensions trivialised a serious issue " Your really trying to twist this thread aren't you! | |||
"it is a subject with a lot of grey areas, thats for sure.....but so many ppl suffer wheres there is no cure.....its painfull....its not gracefull....and in some cases its purey ghastly..... Sometimes the family's suffer far more than the patients. Often the patient is drugged or in a vegetative state with just machines keeping them alive. The family's visit daily and they hope amongst hope and its never good for them. " some maybe yes......but we have watched 3 very close members die of cancer/lukemia over the last year....they didnt want to lay suffering.....as i say lots of grey areas ! | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 24/05/10 10:05:49]" I would agree with that but we have moved it on to a serious discussion. Feel free to re-post it though if you feel the need. | |||
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"it is a subject with a lot of grey areas, thats for sure.....but so many ppl suffer wheres there is no cure.....its painfull....its not gracefull....and in some cases its purey ghastly..... i thought the comment re unemployed and old people on pensions trivialised a serious issue trivial issue haha it will never be a trivial issue to those watching someone dieing, suffering or not being in control of there own body...........or to the person themselves laying not being in control." yes been there 3 times now as have many However to discuss Euthanasia for the purposes of relief of suffering with a linkage (tongue in cheek or not) to killing the unemployed because they have not got a job surely skews the debate into a frivolous path,or am i wrong? | |||
"He isn't twisting the thread at all....see the first three posts by the OP who started this thread, all he is concerned about is his own personal tax burden brought on by umemployed and old people." Well its an emotive subject all round. I wouldn't say it is a Neo Nazi stance as you said but removed though. | |||
"it is a subject with a lot of grey areas, thats for sure.....but so many ppl suffer wheres there is no cure.....its painfull....its not gracefull....and in some cases its purey ghastly..... i thought the comment re unemployed and old people on pensions trivialised a serious issue trivial issue haha it will never be a trivial issue to those watching someone dieing, suffering or not being in control of there own body...........or to the person themselves laying not being in control. yes been there 3 times now as have many However to discuss Euthanasia for the purposes of relief of suffering with a linkage (tongue in cheek or not) to killing the unemployed because they have not got a job surely skews the debate into a frivolous path,or am i wrong? " i am talking about people in general....not classing people into groups such as the elderly, the unemployed etc........i aint getting involved in the petty arguing.....i am talking of people in general. | |||
"it is a subject with a lot of grey areas, thats for sure.....but so many ppl suffer wheres there is no cure.....its painfull....its not gracefull....and in some cases its purey ghastly..... i thought the comment re unemployed and old people on pensions trivialised a serious issue trivial issue haha it will never be a trivial issue to those watching someone dieing, suffering or not being in control of there own body...........or to the person themselves laying not being in control. yes been there 3 times now as have many However to discuss Euthanasia for the purposes of relief of suffering with a linkage (tongue in cheek or not) to killing the unemployed because they have not got a job surely skews the debate into a frivolous path,or am i wrong? " I give up. Your intent on turning this into a nasty thread so you go for it. I think its shame as its a serious topic but obviously that huge chip on your shoulder that says your always right rules you. | |||
"it is a subject with a lot of grey areas, thats for sure.....but so many ppl suffer wheres there is no cure.....its painfull....its not gracefull....and in some cases its purey ghastly..... i thought the comment re unemployed and old people on pensions trivialised a serious issue trivial issue haha it will never be a trivial issue to those watching someone dieing, suffering or not being in control of there own body...........or to the person themselves laying not being in control. yes been there 3 times now as have many However to discuss Euthanasia for the purposes of relief of suffering with a linkage (tongue in cheek or not) to killing the unemployed because they have not got a job surely skews the debate into a frivolous path,or am i wrong? I give up. Your intent on turning this into a nasty thread so you go for it. I think its shame as its a serious topic but obviously that huge chip on your shoulder that says your always right rules you. "giving up is probably best.....  sometimes just letting people read whats being said, says it all !!  | |||
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"Actually it is EXACTLY the typical policy of Neo Nazi thinking individuals.... They see the elderly, the unemployed, the disabled as an underclass that is a burden on their personal tax burden. THAT was the intention and personal views of the guy who started the thread otherwise he would not have linked euthenasia up with unemployement in the first place. " He didnt....i brought it up. | |||
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"He isn't twisting the thread at all....see the first three posts by the OP who started this thread, all he is concerned about is his own personal tax burden brought on by umemployed and old people." i was beginning to think it was me,how can you ignore one of the most outrageous suggestions ever made on the site.... | |||
"Ok , if you want to argue go take it private." well said !! | |||
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"There are many people who would choose this option right now. Some even travel abroad and its been documented some family's have had police investigations for assisting. Ideally it would be a trained medical officer who can do it painlessly. " Indeed they do, and as such are subject to the laws of the country they are visiting, that the UK should then seek to extend our laws to also cover them I find quite disturbing (but that is a different subject). As for your answer to my original question I have heard the same answer before and I still don't know what a medically trained officer is, maybe you could expand? Is it a lawyer with a first aid cert, or a doctor with a quasi legal roll, is it something in between or something totally new? | |||
"Is it about time the government reviewed this issue? Ethnically it might not be the done thing but with the state of the economy the huge reduction in pension payments would reduce the deficit in the economy. Is it one cut too far though?" so we can have the oh here is mr jones not worked in 20 years...pull the plug not worth keepin??
or mrs smith terminal cancer worked all her life does she get the delux version of helped over to the other side??
euthanasia is a very touchy subject but to link it in with ways of sortin the economy is just vile and horrid!! what next?? oh disabled dont bother treating just shove him over by the bed at the window has no worth!!
where do we draw line??? x | |||
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"There are defo circumstances where euthanasia should be an option... My uncle took a heart attack and was brought back to life after 12 minutes....he never recovered properly and was left in a comma like state......he lasted 7 horrible years in this state.........he was a vegetable....incontinent, limbs seized, was peg fed into his stomach, couldnt communicate in any way it was truley ghastly ! I have seen a number of people like this and it is degraded for many and its so hard and painful for the family. I sometimes think we go to far with medicine but its impossible to draw a line as some recover well. A living will is one answer but we should be open to everyone's view on this as its an important subject. we all have a DO NOT RESUSITATE written after watching what happened to my uncle." Unfortunately, the reality is that if you do have a heart attack the most likely people to do CPR is the ambulance crew who attend. By law, they have to attempt resuscitation, and anyway, they won't have instant access your medical notes. The same would go for the receiving casualty - patients with no vital signs are treated immediately, the staff don't wait for medical notes to be read. Even the person who had it tattooed - it would be ignored, just in case it was "a joke". Medical staff can't be blamed if they do attempt resuscitation - they can be sued/fired/jailed if they don't. | |||
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"Best thing to do is buy a dog-tag, place it around your neck, on both sides it says "Do Not Resussitate!" with your name and date of birth, then if you do get resussitated, sue them for the likely cost of your residual life! "Its a horrible thing to say but that might actually work! | |||
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"Is it about time the government reviewed this issue? Ethnically it might not be the done thing but with the state of the economy the huge reduction in pension payments would reduce the deficit in the economy. Is it one cut too far though?" lmao not sure euthanasia should be made legal to save money on member of your society in their old age | |||
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"Well Personally id definitely have it put in a living will if it was made legal I really think that people should have a choice The choice should consist of Permission in a living will when you are deemed fit and healthy and of sound mind ta make one At least eight out of ten specialists should agree that the illness is treminal If the person is still rational and of sound mind at this stage should then be made to reaffirm their living will in front of witnesses At the end of the day its my life BUT there should be safeguards xx" i totally agree x | |||
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"Best thing to do is buy a dog-tag, place it around your neck, on both sides it says "Do Not Resussitate!" with your name and date of birth, then if you do get resussitated, sue them for the likely cost of your residual life! "As per my earlier post, this wouldn't work, is not legally recognisable, and no court in the land would entertain suing the person who saved your life, it would set too dangerous a precedent. | |||
"I see ya point but life and laws have ta change too xx" Laws may have changed, but life hasn't. Humans have an "in-built" survival instinct that evolution hasn't yet destroyed. | |||
"I see ya point but life and laws have ta change too xx Laws may have changed, but life hasn't. Humans have an "in-built" survival instinct that evolution hasn't yet destroyed." Yes i know but please see an earlier post of mine xx | |||
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"To be honest, I think it happens at times in hospitals anyway. When my dad was dying in hospital the doctors asked us did we want them to save him the next time he arrested ( he had already arrested 4 times). Even though after the event we all spoke about it and said we wanted to say no,he is dying anyway, don't save him, none of us could say it to the doctors. The next time he arrested he passed away, we assumed the doctors made the decision for us. They knew he was dying, why prolong it. The same was asked to my cousin when his mum was dying.... the doctors know when it is time to stop helping the person stay alive when there isn't much hope and it lets the patients die with a bit of dignity." yeah its that softly softly approach ,i am worried about disturbing by law ,after shipman the statistics are so carefully monitored now so i dont think it could be abused . It is probably one of the hardest things as a society we have to get to grips with,the emotions all around are raw | |||
"To be honest, I think it happens at times in hospitals anyway. When my dad was dying in hospital the doctors asked us did we want them to save him the next time he arrested ( he had already arrested 4 times). Even though after the event we all spoke about it and said we wanted to say no,he is dying anyway, don't save him, none of us could say it to the doctors. The next time he arrested he passed away, we assumed the doctors made the decision for us. They knew he was dying, why prolong it. The same was asked to my cousin when his mum was dying.... the doctors know when it is time to stop helping the person stay alive when there isn't much hope and it lets the patients die with a bit of dignity." I am sure you are correct, but I believe that we need a better system, and that one of the things it must do is remove the pressure from doctors to "play god", I truly believe that the doctors principal of "I will do no harm" (one that has proved itself over some 2500 years) should be reinstated and decisions about withholding treatment or bringing about early death need to be taken by non doctors. | |||
