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Can we have a coup in the UK?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm with you in spirit, but beware, who would fill the void, the next tier of would be politicians?
Localised militias as in much of the "liberated" Arab spring countries? |
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I am a fully affiliated member and co-founder of the C.U.G. (Coxbench Urban Geurillas). We are 3 strong and formed outside the Fox & Hounds one Sunday afternoon in 1983 over several pints of Marston's Pedigree.
If I can track down my 2 comrades, you can rely on our unconditional support  |
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"Just seen Thailand has had another coup, and wondered if we could ever oust our parliament like that?
PS.... Dear MI5/MI6, I'm not planning on starting one, just curious  "
Dreams, my friend, dreams.
At one time our political "masters" lived in fear of overthrow, or at least violent confrontation with a seriously pissed off public.
I believe it was one Thomas Jefferson who said "When the government fears the people you have democracy, when the people fear the government you have tyranny".
However they have now progressively sown up any and all avenues of effective violent protest by the public
and/or a disgruntled military. All that snooping on your activities isn't just to keep the would-be Hamzas in check, it's also to be one step ahead of you should you get uppity.
In most cases they've already got most of us enslaved by debt (so if they simply play it to cut off your income then you lose things like your house/car/all the worldy goodies you've been amassing on credit). Tell your family they'll have to accept being martyrs for the good of the future. They've also got plenty of ways of "leaking shit" to a docile press to discredit dissenters.
If that doesn't work they've had tons of practice in various places from N. Ireland to Iraq, Afghanistan etc at getting the special forces to come and "have a word" and/or simply arranging for a little missile with a small warhead to come whizzing through your window (reported as something like "terrorist blows himself up when his bomb factory accidently blew up".
Combine it with the huge presence of CCTV cameras, most of which are going to become even more effective once they've been upgraded to the latest specs, plus phone tracking and vehicle tracking (EU proposal in the works for all new vehicles to have black box trackers fitted from new from about 2017 I believe), and your credit card transactions help track your movements, as do such things as Oyster cards, as do banking transactions, as does internet access etc and your chances of coordinating any such action are slim to vanishing.
Remember this is a mature democracy, they want you to settle your problems peacefully via the ballot box. Do not laugh at the back! Now come on, it's hardly fair for you to complain that there is only a choice of various shades of the same thing on offer and that they've squeezed out any real alternatives, now is it?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Just seen Thailand has had another coup, and wondered if we could ever oust our parliament like that?
PS.... Dear MI5/MI6, I'm not planning on starting one, just curious
Dreams, my friend, dreams.
At one time our political "masters" lived in fear of overthrow, or at least violent confrontation with a seriously pissed off public.
I believe it was one Thomas Jefferson who said "When the government fears the people you have democracy, when the people fear the government you have tyranny".
However they have now progressively sown up any and all avenues of effective violent protest by the public
and/or a disgruntled military. All that snooping on your activities isn't just to keep the would-be Hamzas in check, it's also to be one step ahead of you should you get uppity.
In most cases they've already got most of us enslaved by debt (so if they simply play it to cut off your income then you lose things like your house/car/all the worldy goodies you've been amassing on credit). Tell your family they'll have to accept being martyrs for the good of the future. They've also got plenty of ways of "leaking shit" to a docile press to discredit dissenters.
If that doesn't work they've had tons of practice in various places from N. Ireland to Iraq, Afghanistan etc at getting the special forces to come and "have a word" and/or simply arranging for a little missile with a small warhead to come whizzing through your window (reported as something like "terrorist blows himself up when his bomb factory accidently blew up".
Combine it with the huge presence of CCTV cameras, most of which are going to become even more effective once they've been upgraded to the latest specs, plus phone tracking and vehicle tracking (EU proposal in the works for all new vehicles to have black box trackers fitted from new from about 2017 I believe), and your credit card transactions help track your movements, as do such things as Oyster cards, as do banking transactions, as does internet access etc and your chances of coordinating any such action are slim to vanishing.
Remember this is a mature democracy, they want you to settle your problems peacefully via the ballot box. Do not laugh at the back! Now come on, it's hardly fair for you to complain that there is only a choice of various shades of the same thing on offer and that they've squeezed out any real alternatives, now is it?
"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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A coup in the UK would amount to little more than a gathering of people tutting, wagging their fingers and shaking their heads.
Followed by tea and biscuits. |
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"Bollocks. If enough people were really unhappy of course it could happen.
The truth is life is really very comfortable for the majority."
If wishes were fishes there'd be no hungry people in the world!
I see you've got your critical thinking facilities in full flow again. Instead of being distracted by male genitalia please lay out some kind of outline scenario by which the general public could coordinate its activities sufficiently well, while going unnoticed by the state's very efficient snoopers, until it was sufficiently large, and even more importantly sufficiently coordinated and armed and trained in the use of weaponry so that they could and would effectively go up against the armed might of the state?
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"Bollocks. If enough people were really unhappy of course it could happen.
The truth is life is really very comfortable for the majority.
If wishes were fishes there'd be no hungry people in the world!
I see you've got your critical thinking facilities in full flow again. Instead of being distracted by male genitalia please lay out some kind of outline scenario by which the general public could coordinate its activities sufficiently well, while going unnoticed by the state's very efficient snoopers, until it was sufficiently large, and even more importantly sufficiently coordinated and armed and trained in the use of weaponry so that they could and would effectively go up against the armed might of the state?
"
You remember the riots a couple of years ago? Started with a small incident in London and quickly we saw riots happening all over the country. Some riots were organised on facebook and twitter, not much the police or the army could do about it then. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Bollocks. If enough people were really unhappy of course it could happen.
The truth is life is really very comfortable for the majority.
If wishes were fishes there'd be no hungry people in the world!
I see you've got your critical thinking facilities in full flow again. Instead of being distracted by male genitalia please lay out some kind of outline scenario by which the general public could coordinate its activities sufficiently well, while going unnoticed by the state's very efficient snoopers, until it was sufficiently large, and even more importantly sufficiently coordinated and armed and trained in the use of weaponry so that they could and would effectively go up against the armed might of the state?
"
I can't find anything that might be considered distracting. Maybe it's cold?
As the other comment points out the recent riots are an example of how quickly things could spiral. Social media can be used effectively to coordinate things as has been demonstrated before.
You can choose to convince live in a state of frozen paranoia if you like. The reality isn't always your version of it, thankfully. |
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"
You remember the riots a couple of years ago? Started with a small incident in London and quickly we saw riots happening all over the country. Some riots were organised on facebook and twitter, not much the police or the army could do about it then. "
You're not discussing the same scenario my friend. The army weren't involved and the rioters hadn't been building up to any significant threat to the state over any length of time to bring themselves to the attention of the state apparatus.
Most were effectively opportunistic "me too"s or looters and the police were simply caught with too few officers on the ground, coupled in many cases with a command fear stemming from our blame and compensation culture that meant they didn't commit their officers fast enough or hard enough. That is not the same thing as the state delivering instructions to its "armed apparatus" to put down a full blown attempted coup.
If you hope for salvation to come via that kind of "instant uprising" well, let's hope the devil has arranged a back-up heating system.
BTW at senior level in the armed forces and the police they do carry out "what if" planning for dealing with very serious outbreaks of civil disorder...they never even came onto the edge of being considered such with those riots.
There was a great deal more organised protest, and a great deal more justified anger in the thousands of striking miners in the 80s and the state broke them remember. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"BTW at senior level in the armed forces and the police they do carry out "what if" planning for dealing with very serious outbreaks of civil disorder...they never even came onto the edge of being considered such with those riots."
And you would know what the senior level of the authorities were considering of course.. |
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"BTW at senior level in the armed forces and the police they do carry out "what if" planning for dealing with very serious outbreaks of civil disorder...they never even came onto the edge of being considered such with those riots.
And you would know what the senior level of the authorities were considering of course.."
I'm beginning to wonder if you're just trolling as you disregard the body of arguments and try to play on the periphery.
This should be simple enough for you to digest: You will have noticed that the army were not deployed, nor were they placed on standby, because the threat didn't rate it.
Take a look at my age in my profile, flower, and ask yourself just where I might have aquired experience of these things? Those scenarios and the scaling of "threat" are part of Staff Officer training for the most senior levels of the armed forces. Such training is also cross-shared with the police these days, as until a state of marshal law is declared the armed forces would (in theory) operate under police direction.
As for coordinating a flash mob to pull a coup, see how far they get a) when the government closes down either sites like Facebook or if necessary the appropriate internet backbone system and b) any such mob on the streets is facing military with orders to shoot to kill.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Look if you get your rocks off playing Internet soldier then good for you. But the 'shoot to kill' type comments make it kinda hard to take you seriously.
Regardless of all the oppression/paranoid tosh you've dribbled out, the bottom line is that without a will it won't happen - life is too comfortable, something we can all be grateful for. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'd like to see the army try and keep the public off the streets of newcastle on a friday or saturday night..... "
We'll give it a good go! Then hit the town afterwards for some brown ales!!
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"The riots were a tiny insight into what real Dis order could be
Im fine we dont have that sort of carry on here  "
Amen to that. Let us all hope and pray that we never see it on a large scale as per the "flash mob coup" some people on here think might happen.
That's the point I'm trying to make. The OP asked if a coup was possible. For an effective coup there needs to be planning and organisation which takes time and much communication. That situation is something for which the state here is well prepared, has a very effective apparatus for eavesdropping on communication and has contingency plans to deal with any ensuing action on the streets.
The "off-topic" tangential posters seem to thing that the rioting we saw would somehow get big enough, like an out of control bonfire, to bring down a government. It might catch them on the backfoot initially, but since it has no real cohesive goals, except in many cases looting and violence for its own sake the result would be anarchy multiplied by hell and once they got into their stride the authorities would have to quell it with maximum "prejudice" and they would. Contrary to the airy-fairy dreams of some all was not sweetness and lightness in the uprisings we've seen in the various Arab states. |
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"Look if you get your rocks off playing Internet soldier then good for you. But the 'shoot to kill' type comments make it kinda hard to take you seriously.
Regardless of all the oppression/paranoid tosh you've dribbled out, the bottom line is that without a will it won't happen - life is too comfortable, something we can all be grateful for."
I'm still not sure if you're a troll or just one of those people who simply disregard any part of an argument or discussion if it doesn't suit them or if they can't answer it.
I do notice that you have a very bad tendency to do name calling (always one of the last defence positions of those who cannot refute arguments with facts).
As for your "internet soldier" bit, flower, I don't even play computer games on the subject. I spent a part of my early adult life trained and ready to keep the Russians off your neck (or more likely off your parents necks) so I'll task you to keep your manners up front rather than letting your mouth run faster than your brain.
The OP asked if a coup was possible, not disorder via an out of control rioting mob. I gave you chapter and verse (such as is in the public domain and not covered by the Official Secrets Act) on what a real coup would be up against. If you really think that any government, facing the prospect of overthrow by coup, wouldn't have given orders to shoot to kill then you are in cuckoo land.
Contrary to the rubbish your hear spouted in newspapers there is no such thing as a "shoot to wound" order. When the order comes to open fire we've passed the point at which "niceness applies" and the blokes behind those sights intend your death. It would be a very good idea to be somewhere else. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm still not sure if you're a troll or just one of those people who simply disregard any part of an argument or discussion if it doesn't suit them or if they can't answer it.
I do notice that you have a very bad tendency to do name calling (always one of the last defence positions of those who cannot refute arguments with facts).
"
I stated my belief that life is too comfortable to allow a coup at this moment. This seems to be a fact.
I also believe it would be possible for there to be a coup if there were enough anger. History proves this to be a fact.
Patronise me till your hearts content, but try & keep it real. A few days ago you were an IT geek. Today you're James Bond. Oh but now you were protecting us from the Russians in the days before computers had been invented... but they still keep you up to date on the latest strategies for public unrest. |
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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"Just seen Thailand has had another coup, and wondered if we could ever oust our parliament like that?
PS.... Dear MI5/MI6, I'm not planning on starting one, just curious "
Grrrrrrrrr let's do it.
For to many years,
the people's voice has been suppressed,
the peoples will has been discounted,
The peoples dreams and illusions,have been torn,and scattered,like confetti,in the wind.
The time has come for the peoples revolution,and to once more,make our voices heard.
.
Ps weather depending.
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