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Farage on LBC
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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So I watched the Ferrari interview and I was surprised at how well he conducted himself.
However the James O'Brien interview came around, and all hell broke loose.
How many of you are actually going to vote in the European Elections next month? And is UKIP something to be worried about, or are they really not a "racist party"? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I highly recommend James O' Brien's radio show."
I think I must be getting old because I never listen to music on the radio anymore, LBC is the only thing I listen to! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I've read so much rubbish to do with this election mainly on social media. It appears an awful lot of people don't know the meaning of the word racist.
stopping outsiders from taking advantage of you and your country is not racist.
Of course there may be other things they're doing which are. I'm just not aware of them |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"At the end of the day its not political parties that are racist its people, all parties including the greens have racist members and supporters
Gimp "
Fair enough, that's very true. Let me rephrase myself, then. Is UKIP at risk of getting into some sort of power, and uniting a racist collective under one banner and bringing it to the fore? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I've read so much rubbish to do with this election mainly on social media. It appears an awful lot of people don't know the meaning of the word racist.
stopping outsiders from taking advantage of you and your country is not racist.
Of course there may be other things they're doing which are. I'm just not aware of them "
Of course it's not. That's the sensible thing to do. I didn't say that, but if you listen to the interview, Farage produces some remarks that could certainly be construed as "racist". |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"At the end of the day its not political parties that are racist its people, all parties including the greens have racist members and supporters
Gimp
Fair enough, that's very true. Let me rephrase myself, then. Is UKIP at risk of getting into some sort of power, and uniting a racist collective under one banner and bringing it to the fore?"
No because racists arnt going to automatically jump ship and turn UKIP if they win a MEP, there are quite a few senior politicians who are racist behind the closed doors of a gentlemans club who wont switch becuse they would be out of a job overnight |
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"At the end of the day its not political parties that are racist its people, all parties including the greens have racist members and supporters
Gimp
Fair enough, that's very true. Let me rephrase myself, then. Is UKIP at risk of getting into some sort of power, and uniting a racist collective under one banner and bringing it to the fore?"
How? I keep hearing these easy accusations against ukip but I don't see what it is based on.
I believe that members of the EDL who live in a strong labour area, who have always voted labour because their family always did will still vote labour. The same would apply to any other parties.
As far as I am aware, you can be a member of the EDL or BNP and still be a member of the big three parties ( I am including the lib dems) but the UKIP constitution does not allow any members, past or present, of the EDL or BNP to be members of UKIP. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"No because racists arnt going to automatically jump ship and turn UKIP if they win a MEP, there are quite a few senior politicians who are racist behind the closed doors of a gentlemans club who wont switch becuse they would be out of a job overnight "
I'm not talking about senior politicians, I'm talking about every day people. People who are members of the National Front, or the BNP or whatever, might see it as them having a voice in Parliament and just run with it.
Not that's what I think will necessarily happen, but clearly you don't think it's a possibility, either? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"How? I keep hearing these easy accusations against ukip but I don't see what it is based on.
I believe that members of the EDL who live in a strong labour area, who have always voted labour because their family always did will still vote labour. The same would apply to any other parties.
As far as I am aware, you can be a member of the EDL or BNP and still be a member of the big three parties ( I am including the lib dems) but the UKIP constitution does not allow any members, past or present, of the EDL or BNP to be members of UKIP."
It's mainly based on how much of a moron Farage comes across when faced with someone who's clearly his intellectual superior, and has the facts and figures to back it up. When he says things like he feels "uncomfortable" sitting next to foreign speaking people on the train, when his wife is German and his children are German speakers, and he says that he would be "concerned" if Romanian people moved in next door because of their higher rates of criminal activity and human trafficking, a certain type of person is going to hear that and agree with him. If enough people feel the same way, his views on border control will end up becoming irrelevant when the mass that voted him in are calling for even more stringent controls. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I may be wrong ? But to me me ukip are anti racist ! racism isn't just about a persons shade but the country they come from ! Thier leader is married to a German ! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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UKIP are preying on irrational fears and outdated policies.
To quote one politician when ending a speech to his party he said "its important that we maintain the national identity and those who do not wish to conform to our way of life will be returned to their country of origin. This beautiful land of ours is surrounded by those who wish to detract from our ideals and the way they will not succeed we will route out those who are irrelevant and not of a racial purity I demand.
It was not Mr Farrage but one Adolf Hitler speaking in Munich. Lets not forget eh? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I may be wrong ? But to me me ukip are anti racist ! racism isn't just about a persons shade but the country they come from ! Thier leader is married to a German !"
I think that, by definition, if you're not "racist" then you're "anti-racist". I don't really think there's any middle ground. You're either a bigoted idiot or just a normal person with sensible views. |
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That they want to stop paid maternity leave and paid holiday from work is enough to stop me voting for them.
The fact their politicians are seemingly unable to open their mouths without putting their foot in it (not just the UKIP, I know) just confirms that none vote. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I may be wrong ? But to me me ukip are anti racist ! racism isn't just about a persons shade but the country they come from ! Thier leader is married to a German !
I think that, by definition, if you're not "racist" then you're "anti-racist". I don't really think there's any middle ground. You're either a bigoted idiot or just a normal person with sensible views."
So by your same definition if your not Christian your Anti-Christian and if your not Female your Anti-Female etc etc
Gimp |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"That they want to stop paid maternity leave and paid holiday from work is enough to stop me voting for them.
The fact their politicians are seemingly unable to open their mouths without putting their foot in it (not just the UKIP, I know) just confirms that none vote."
They are just a bunch of white middle class men who somehow think they have a handle on everything when they are in reality nobodies. Spoil your ballot paper which is telling those on the count "none of the above" |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I may be wrong ? But to me me ukip are anti racist ! racism isn't just about a persons shade but the country they come from ! Thier leader is married to a German !
I think that, by definition, if you're not "racist" then you're "anti-racist". I don't really think there's any middle ground. You're either a bigoted idiot or just a normal person with sensible views.
So by your same definition if your not Christian your Anti-Christian and if your not Female your Anti-Female etc etc
Gimp"
I'm not sure opposites work like that...it's slightly more nuanced...slightly
Not-Gimp (though certainly not anti-gimp) |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
So by your same definition if your not Christian your Anti-Christian and if your not Female your Anti-Female etc etc
Gimp"
Aha whaat? I don't see how you could draw the same conclusion.
Issues of race are issues of morality. If you believe that one race is better than another, that's morally incorrect. There is no other alternative: you believe people are equal or you don't. Morally sufficient or deficient. You can't "not know" whether people are equal or not.
Christianity is not an issue of morality, but an issue of belief. If you don't believe in Christianity, there are many other options available to you. Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Atheism or even Agnosticism to name but a few. "Not knowing" if you believe in God is not a moral issue and God cannot be quantified as of yet. Believing that a white person is better than a black person, however, can be quantified as being ultimately and inherently wrong.
As for not being female, therefore anti-female... Well, that's not really up to me what sex I'm born, is it? More to the point, that's not an issue of morality OR belief. That's just genetics. |
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By *andd2Couple
over a year ago
The Dungeon |
"I've read so much rubbish to do with this election mainly on social media. It appears an awful lot of people don't know the meaning of the word racist.
stopping outsiders from taking advantage of you and your country is not racist."
It's not racist, it's xenophobia to hate all foreigners regardless of race or creed. However it IS racist when Farage calls all Romanians criminals etc.
Farage is racist, he's just to scared to use the 'n' word for fear of losing his own personal cash cow as an MEP.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Am I missing something ? Ukip have candidates of all colour ! And since when was being a White Middle Class Man a crime ? "
I never said it was a crime. I didn't even suggest that it was. Other than the National Front, that is exclusively for white, British men, all parties have members of whichever race, colour and creed. Who's to say it's not to fill a quota or keep up appearances (for any party)?
To be clear; I don't think that UKIP is a racist party. I think Farage is a bit on the slow side, however my concern is that the image that UKIP now has poses a real threat to form a group of people with like-minded interests that ARE racist in nature. That's not to say you are a racist, or a criminal. It's just a worry that there ARE people who are like that, and will use UKIP to their personal advantage. |
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For the last thirty years it has not been possible to discuss the following with out someone from the left calling you an "ist"
Gender
Ethnicity
Immigration
Welfare
Rights for non ethnic groups
Seriously you can't be mainstream without being open to abuse
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The point that most people seem to be missing is that UKIP will gain votes if only for the reason that a sizeable share of the electorate are fucking sick of the existing twats, which includes all of Cameron, Milliband and the odious Clegg.
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
UKIP is the a BNP of people who shop at Marks and Spencer's. Simple politics for simple people whose self opinion of their own status in life supersedes that of the mere mortals around them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Today I had the misfortune of having my ears assaulted with the putrid bile that poured from the mouth of bigoted racist xenophobic gay bloke,,,,,,
 "
Lenny Henry? Didn't know he's gay. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Christianity is not an issue of morality, but an issue of belief. If you don't believe in Christianity, there are many other options available to you. Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Atheism or even Agnosticism to name but a few. "Not knowing" if you believe in God is not a moral issue and God cannot be quantified as of yet. Believing that a white person is better than a black person, however, can be quantified as being ultimately and inherently wrong.
"
Belief in God is exactly that - a belief, often founded on choice.
However, choosing how that belief is expressed and followed IS a moral one. Morality is fundamental in many religion, with some believing that certain practices are morally acceptable to not. As an example, one religion favours putting practicing homosexuals to death. Another has a complex moral code of conduct though which one attains a higher moral and spiritual purpose.
Which you chose to follow is a matter of a moral judgment. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Ukip one trick.pony they do not live in real world.
Fact re farage he is m e p claims expenses does not attend meetings for me he is irrelevant and will not affect whom i vote for. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
Christianity is not an issue of morality, but an issue of belief. If you don't believe in Christianity, there are many other options available to you. Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Atheism or even Agnosticism to name but a few. "Not knowing" if you believe in God is not a moral issue and God cannot be quantified as of yet. Believing that a white person is better than a black person, however, can be quantified as being ultimately and inherently wrong.
Belief in God is exactly that - a belief, often founded on choice.
However, choosing how that belief is expressed and followed IS a moral one. Morality is fundamental in many religion, with some believing that certain practices are morally acceptable to not. As an example, one religion favours putting practicing homosexuals to death. Another has a complex moral code of conduct though which one attains a higher moral and spiritual purpose.
Which you chose to follow is a matter of a moral judgment."
Of course a belief is founded on choice. You don't choose to accept that everybody dies- it's a fact and therefore to NOT choose it would just be backwards.
Although how you express your belief is a moral judgement, religion is not the only necessary prerequisite in which morality can be maintained. To be anti-capital punishment for adultery or apostasy is NOT being anti-Christian, it's being against some of the moral views or judgements that certain religions may prescribe. What I'm trying to argue is that by NOT being a Christian does not MAKE you an anti-Christian. That is something that you have to choose in order to become one. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Shadwell.
Just wanted to say Shadwell. A kick up the 80's revisited. "
Ello Shadwell here, we are having hamster for Christmas dinner..... it has more leg on it.....
We are going to Brighton on holiday.... on my Uncles Milk float.....
Love Shadwell!! |
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"At the end of the day its not political parties that are racist its people, all parties including the greens have racist members and supporters
Gimp
Fair enough, that's very true. Let me rephrase myself, then. Is UKIP at risk of getting into some sort of power, and uniting a racist collective under one banner and bringing it to the fore?
How? I keep hearing these easy accusations against ukip but I don't see what it is based on.
I believe that members of the EDL who live in a strong labour area, who have always voted labour because their family always did will still vote labour. The same would apply to any other parties.
As far as I am aware, you can be a member of the EDL or BNP and still be a member of the big three parties ( I am including the lib dems) but the UKIP constitution does not allow any members, past or present, of the EDL or BNP to be members of UKIP."
Other parties don't have too much trouble with EDL or BNP members joining. UKIP do. That alone is telling. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Shadwell.
Just wanted to say Shadwell. A kick up the 80's revisited.
Ello Shadwell here, we are having hamster for Christmas dinner..... it has more leg on it.....
We are going to Brighton on holiday.... on my Uncles Milk float.....
Love Shadwell!!"
 |
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"At the end of the day its not political parties that are racist its people, all parties including the greens have racist members and supporters
Gimp
Fair enough, that's very true. Let me rephrase myself, then. Is UKIP at risk of getting into some sort of power, and uniting a racist collective under one banner and bringing it to the fore?
How? I keep hearing these easy accusations against ukip but I don't see what it is based on.
I believe that members of the EDL who live in a strong labour area, who have always voted labour because their family always did will still vote labour. The same would apply to any other parties.
As far as I am aware, you can be a member of the EDL or BNP and still be a member of the big three parties ( I am including the lib dems) but the UKIP constitution does not allow any members, past or present, of the EDL or BNP to be members of UKIP.
Other parties don't have too much trouble with EDL or BNP members joining. UKIP do. That alone is telling."
What are you basing that on?
Do you have the figures for each party?
I believe UKIP introduced that policy as a pre-emptive strike, would you like other parties to adopt something similar?
Accusations are far too easy to throw about. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
So by your same definition if your not Christian your Anti-Christian and if your not Female your Anti-Female etc etc
Gimp
Aha whaat? I don't see how you could draw the same conclusion.
Issues of race are issues of morality. If you believe that one race is better than another, that's morally incorrect. There is no other alternative: you believe people are equal or you don't. Morally sufficient or deficient. You can't "not know" whether people are equal or not.
Christianity is not an issue of morality, but an issue of belief. If you don't believe in Christianity, there are many other options available to you. Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Atheism or even Agnosticism to name but a few. "Not knowing" if you believe in God is not a moral issue and God cannot be quantified as of yet. Believing that a white person is better than a black person, however, can be quantified as being ultimately and inherently wrong.
As for not being female, therefore anti-female... Well, that's not really up to me what sex I'm born, is it? More to the point, that's not an issue of morality OR belief. That's just genetics. "
Racism isnt always about the racist feels superior sometimes its the fear of being inferior,i drew my conclusion based on your remark about being even for or anti,
of course i can know if people are equal or not, everyone is my equal..not superior or inferior but equal.
Christianity isnt an issue of morality ?
I think you may want to revise your religious history on that one mate
Gimp |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"At the end of the day its not political parties that are councillors its people, all parties including the greens have racist members and supporters
Gimp
Fair enough, that's very true. Let me rephrase myself, then. Is UKIP at risk of getting into some sort of power, and uniting a racist collective under one banner and bringing it to the fore?
How? I keep hearing these easy accusations against ukip but I don't see what it is based on.
I believe that members of the EDL who live in a strong labour area, who have always voted labour because their family always did will still vote labour. The same would apply to any other parties.
As far as I am aware, you can be a member of the EDL or BNP and still be a member of the big three parties ( I am including the lib dems) but the UKIP constitution does not allow any members, past or present, of the EDL or BNP to be members of UKIP.
Other parties don't have too much trouble with EDL or BNP members joining. UKIP do. That alone is telling.
What are you basing that on?
Do you have the figures for each party?
I believe UKIP introduced that policy as a pre-emptive strike, would you like other parties to adopt something similar?
Accusations are far too easy to throw about."
Figures? No.
But equally no other party seems to be so regularly embarrassed by it's councillors or perspective councillors vile racist and homophobic views. |
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"At the end of the day its not political parties that are racist its people, all parties including the greens have racist members and supporters
Gimp
Fair enough, that's very true. Let me rephrase myself, then. Is UKIP at risk of getting into some sort of power, and uniting a racist collective under one banner and bringing it to the fore?
How? I keep hearing these easy accusations against ukip but I don't see what it is based on.
I believe that members of the EDL who live in a strong labour area, who have always voted labour because their family always did will still vote labour. The same would apply to any other parties.
As far as I am aware, you can be a member of the EDL or BNP and still be a member of the big three parties ( I am including the lib dems) but the UKIP constitution does not allow any members, past or present, of the EDL or BNP to be members of UKIP.
Other parties don't have too much trouble with EDL or BNP members joining. UKIP do. That alone is telling.
What are you basing that on?
Do you have the figures for each party?
I believe UKIP introduced that policy as a pre-emptive strike, would you like other parties to adopt something similar?
Accusations are far too easy to throw about."
UKIP brought that policy in recently as a result of bad publicity arising from BNP and EDL members joining and becoming vocal within the party. That is my evidence. Farage himself said it on the news. Figures are both not needed and obviously impossible to obtain. A silly request. |
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"At the end of the day its not political parties that are councillors its people, all parties including the greens have racist members and supporters
Gimp
Fair enough, that's very true. Let me rephrase myself, then. Is UKIP at risk of getting into some sort of power, and uniting a racist collective under one banner and bringing it to the fore?
How? I keep hearing these easy accusations against ukip but I don't see what it is based on.
I believe that members of the EDL who live in a strong labour area, who have always voted labour because their family always did will still vote labour. The same would apply to any other parties.
As far as I am aware, you can be a member of the EDL or BNP and still be a member of the big three parties ( I am including the lib dems) but the UKIP constitution does not allow any members, past or present, of the EDL or BNP to be members of UKIP.
Other parties don't have too much trouble with EDL or BNP members joining. UKIP do. That alone is telling.
What are you basing that on?
Do you have the figures for each party?
I believe UKIP introduced that policy as a pre-emptive strike, would you like other parties to adopt something similar?
Accusations are far too easy to throw about.
Figures? No.
But equally no other party seems to be so regularly embarrassed by it's councillors or perspective councillors vile racist and homophobic views. "
No other party was quite as embarrassed as labour over the PIE scandal, should we judge all their members by that?
Their are plenty of unsavoury incidents in all parties but it seems that negative and, often unfounded, allegations and attacks are acceptable when thrown in UKIPs direction. It seems childish, churlish and counter productive to me.
Incidentally, why did the PIE scandal get brushed under the carpet? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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They already have several MEP's and likely to get more....
The main point is why is anyone voting for MEP's when the European Parliament has little or no real power - the unelected commissioners wield most of the power anyway..
Also why should we vote for any body which is increasingly taking power away from our own elected government.....
In the seventies we voted to join a "common market" of independent states.
Not a single person in this country EVER voted to join a European Union with a single government in Brussels/Strasbourg. It should not be given ANY CREDIBILITY... The whole election should be boycotted. |
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"At the end of the day its not political parties that are racist its people, all parties including the greens have racist members and supporters
Gimp
Fair enough, that's very true. Let me rephrase myself, then. Is UKIP at risk of getting into some sort of power, and uniting a racist collective under one banner and bringing it to the fore?
How? I keep hearing these easy accusations against ukip but I don't see what it is based on.
I believe that members of the EDL who live in a strong labour area, who have always voted labour because their family always did will still vote labour. The same would apply to any other parties.
As far as I am aware, you can be a member of the EDL or BNP and still be a member of the big three parties ( I am including the lib dems) but the UKIP constitution does not allow any members, past or present, of the EDL or BNP to be members of UKIP.
Other parties don't have too much trouble with EDL or BNP members joining. UKIP do. That alone is telling.
What are you basing that on?
Do you have the figures for each party?
I believe UKIP introduced that policy as a pre-emptive strike, would you like other parties to adopt something similar?
Accusations are far too easy to throw about.
UKIP brought that policy in recently as a result of bad publicity arising from BNP and EDL members joining and becoming vocal within the party. That is my evidence. Farage himself said it on the news. Figures are both not needed and obviously impossible to obtain. A silly request."
Since you can't back it up, a silly assertion. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Racism isnt always about the racist feels superior sometimes its the fear of being inferior,i drew my conclusion based on your remark about being even for or anti,
of course i can know if people are equal or not, everyone is my equal..not superior or inferior but equal.
Gimp"
Ultimately racism tends to manifest itself in a negative way... Where individuals of one phenotype subjugate those of another - simply because of phenotypical differences.
Regardless of any other wild and wacky beliefs one chooses to hold, it's almost universally accepted that racism is wrong... Sadly there is a sizeable minority that holds the opposite view. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"At the end of the day its not political parties that are racist its people, all parties including the greens have racist members and supporters
Gimp
Fair enough, that's very true. Let me rephrase myself, then. Is UKIP at risk of getting into some sort of power, and uniting a racist collective under one banner and bringing it to the fore?
How? I keep hearing these easy accusations against ukip but I don't see what it is based on.
I believe that members of the EDL who live in a strong labour area, who have always voted labour because their family always did will still vote labour. The same would apply to any other parties.
As far as I am aware, you can be a member of the EDL or BNP and still be a member of the big three parties ( I am including the lib dems) but the UKIP constitution does not allow any members, past or present, of the EDL or BNP to be members of UKIP.
Other parties don't have too much trouble with EDL or BNP members joining. UKIP do. That alone is telling.
What are you basing that on?
Do you have the figures for each party?
I believe UKIP introduced that policy as a pre-emptive strike, would you like other parties to adopt something similar?
Accusations are far too easy to throw about."
You ask many pointed questions about peoples perception of UKIP but give no opinions.
Only last week one of their 'rising stars' resigned over concerns at the parties attraction to racists. There are clearly concerns. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"
Racism isnt always about the racist feels superior sometimes its the fear of being inferior,i drew my conclusion based on your remark about being even for or anti,
of course i can know if people are equal or not, everyone is my equal..not superior or inferior but equal.
Christianity isnt an issue of morality ?
I think you may want to revise your religious history on that one mate
Gimp"
A fear of being inferior and believing one to be superior both involve some sort of complex. Whichever one, it's morally wrong to think people aren't equal. I'm not saying that you're racist, btw, just saying that's how I see it.
Christianity isn't an issue of morality, no. Religion, at its core, is based on faith and the belief of God. Morals came second. People now think they must appease God with their moral righteousness to get into Heaven/Paradise or whatever.
Morality would exist without religion, and religion would exist without morality.
As for my "religious history", I did a degree in Philosophy. |
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"At the end of the day its not political parties that are racist its people, all parties including the greens have racist members and supporters
Gimp
Fair enough, that's very true. Let me rephrase myself, then. Is UKIP at risk of getting into some sort of power, and uniting a racist collective under one banner and bringing it to the fore?
How? I keep hearing these easy accusations against ukip but I don't see what it is based on.
I believe that members of the EDL who live in a strong labour area, who have always voted labour because their family always did will still vote labour. The same would apply to any other parties.
As far as I am aware, you can be a member of the EDL or BNP and still be a member of the big three parties ( I am including the lib dems) but the UKIP constitution does not allow any members, past or present, of the EDL or BNP to be members of UKIP.
Other parties don't have too much trouble with EDL or BNP members joining. UKIP do. That alone is telling.
What are you basing that on?
Do you have the figures for each party?
I believe UKIP introduced that policy as a pre-emptive strike, would you like other parties to adopt something similar?
Accusations are far too easy to throw about.
UKIP brought that policy in recently as a result of bad publicity arising from BNP and EDL members joining and becoming vocal within the party. That is my evidence. Farage himself said it on the news. Figures are both not needed and obviously impossible to obtain. A silly request.
Since you can't back it up, a silly assertion."
It is a matter of public record. Do you want a link to the radio interview? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
UKIP brought that policy in recently as a result of bad publicity arising from BNP and EDL members joining and becoming vocal within the party. That is my evidence. Farage himself said it on the news. Figures are both not needed and obviously impossible to obtain. A silly request.
Since you can't back it up, a silly assertion."
It does stand to reason somewhat that the greens, lib dems and labour (more so than the Tories at least) won't have as much of an issue with members having a history with the BNP, stormfront.org and the EDL since ideologically they're quite different...unless someone, somewhere too a wrong turn... |
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"At the end of the day its not political parties that are racist its people, all parties including the greens have racist members and supporters
Gimp
Fair enough, that's very true. Let me rephrase myself, then. Is UKIP at risk of getting into some sort of power, and uniting a racist collective under one banner and bringing it to the fore?
How? I keep hearing these easy accusations against ukip but I don't see what it is based on.
I believe that members of the EDL who live in a strong labour area, who have always voted labour because their family always did will still vote labour. The same would apply to any other parties.
As far as I am aware, you can be a member of the EDL or BNP and still be a member of the big three parties ( I am including the lib dems) but the UKIP constitution does not allow any members, past or present, of the EDL or BNP to be members of UKIP.
Other parties don't have too much trouble with EDL or BNP members joining. UKIP do. That alone is telling.
What are you basing that on?
Do you have the figures for each party?
I believe UKIP introduced that policy as a pre-emptive strike, would you like other parties to adopt something similar?
Accusations are far too easy to throw about.
You ask many pointed questions about peoples perception of UKIP but give no opinions.
Only last week one of their 'rising stars' resigned over concerns at the parties attraction to racists. There are clearly concerns."
I ask only because I detest negative politics, my views are of no consequence to anyone. I want to hear a proper debate on the issues not childish insult hurling. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You ask many pointed questions about peoples perception of UKIP but give no opinions.
Only last week one of their 'rising stars' resigned over concerns at the parties attraction to racists. There are clearly concerns.
I ask only because I detest negative politics, my views are of no consequence to anyone. I want to hear a proper debate on the issues not childish insult hurling. "
I think that's optimistic given the people that will tend to be attracted to UKIP. And there can't be a very broad debate on issues because I doubt many will know very much of UKIP's policies beyond immigration. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
As for my "religious history", I did a degree in Philosophy.
Philosophy has what to do with religion?"
I recall a friend who studied philosophy - and described it as the middle ground between religion and science....
Ask Anthony Flew  , Professor John Lennox and William Craig Lane, what philosophy has to do with religion. You'll be pleasantly surprised, I imagine.... The two disciplines have quite an interlinked past. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
As for my "religious history", I did a degree in Philosophy.
Philosophy has what to do with religion?"
One of my later modules in the course was "philosophy of religion" with a heavy study on the ethical premises religion employs, and the first draft of my dissertation was about morality and ethics within religion. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"
As for my "religious history", I did a degree in Philosophy.
Philosophy has what to do with religion?
One of my later modules in the course was "philosophy of religion" with a heavy study on the ethical premises religion employs, and the first draft of my dissertation was about morality and ethics within religion."
Not to mention I'm only 22 and only finished school four years ago, where I did an A Level in religious studies, which covers both philosophy and ethics of religion. |
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"You ask many pointed questions about peoples perception of UKIP but give no opinions.
Only last week one of their 'rising stars' resigned over concerns at the parties attraction to racists. There are clearly concerns.
I ask only because I detest negative politics, my views are of no consequence to anyone. I want to hear a proper debate on the issues not childish insult hurling.
I think that's optimistic given the people that will tend to be attracted to UKIP. And there can't be a very broad debate on issues because I doubt many will know very much of UKIP's policies beyond immigration."
I seem to remember some TV debates. The insults and negative campaigning has escalated since then.
I want to hear someone argue against their policies not just regurgitate spoon fed childish insults. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I vote for my EU member to go to Europe and try and get the best deal for my area and the UK.
UKIP only pick up there expensise and do not take part in debates or try to influence policy so why would I waste my vote on them ??????? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"You ask many pointed questions about peoples perception of UKIP but give no opinions.
Only last week one of their 'rising stars' resigned over concerns at the parties attraction to racists. There are clearly concerns.
I ask only because I detest negative politics, my views are of no consequence to anyone. I want to hear a proper debate on the issues not childish insult hurling.
I think that's optimistic given the people that will tend to be attracted to UKIP. And there can't be a very broad debate on issues because I doubt many will know very much of UKIP's policies beyond immigration.
I seem to remember some TV debates. The insults and negative campaigning has escalated since then.
I want to hear someone argue against their policies not just regurgitate spoon fed childish insults."
Personally I prefer to debate with people that are prepared to give an opinion. Dishing out jibes to people dishing out insults is a tedious circle.
As for policies - which ones? |
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"I have dished out no jibes and until insults cease, debate can't happen.
I doubt you'll find any politician that would agree with that!"
I agree with you now. We were spoilt up here though and had Tony Benn. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have dished out no jibes and until insults cease, debate can't happen.
I doubt you'll find any politician that would agree with that!
I agree with you now. We were spoilt up here though and had Tony Benn."
Spoiled indeed  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I vote for my EU member to go to Europe and try and get the best deal for my area and the UK.
UKIP only pick up there expensise and do not take part in debates or try to influence policy so why would I waste my vote on them ???????"
I remember seeing the debate when Barosa became the unelected leader of the parliament. UKIP were there and Farage taking the piss out of him...they do turn up.... Pointless anyone turning up either way as policies are made by unelected commissioners anyway..... Even if it was the parliament in charge - why should they be able to over rule our own parliament?
In 70's we voted (well our parents did). To join a "common market" of independent countries.... When the hell did we ever agree to join a "Union" run from Brussels? Actually we didn't. Just that successive treaties have been accepted by our government (mainly by Bliar and Gordon) which have ceded more and more powers to the unelected Eurocrats. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"im voting ukip britain back to self rule, people to work ,protect our borders,stop spongeing gits dolites,and vote nige .....
How will they do this?
"
They won't do it because they can't do it. UKIP just tell the great unwashed what they want to hear. UKIP are a one man band and the popularity is based solely on the charisma of one man, Nigel Farage because... " he says what we think."
Therein a blueprint to create a populist party. Give simple solutions to complex issues so that stupid people don't have to think too much.
UKIP= simple politics for simple peope |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"I vote for my EU member to go to Europe and try and get the best deal for my area and the UK.
UKIP only pick up there expensise and do not take part in debates or try to influence policy so why would I waste my vote on them ???????
I remember seeing the debate when Barosa became the unelected leader of the parliament. UKIP were there and Farage taking the piss out of him...they do turn up.... Pointless anyone turning up either way as policies are made by unelected commissioners anyway..... Even if it was the parliament in charge - why should they be able to over rule our own parliament?
In 70's we voted (well our parents did). To join a "common market" of independent countries.... When the hell did we ever agree to join a "Union" run from Brussels? Actually we didn't. Just that successive treaties have been accepted by our government (mainly by Bliar and Gordon) which have ceded more and more powers to the unelected Eurocrats."
Strikes me that UKIP supporters biggest issue is that of foreigners coming here and taking all the jobs? The common market was and still is defined as the free movement of goods and people.
It was a good idea and it still is. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"im voting ukip britain back to self rule, people to work ,protect our borders,stop spongeing gits dolites,and vote nige .....
How will they do this?
They won't do it because they can't do it. UKIP just tell the great unwashed what they want to hear. UKIP are a one man band and the popularity is based solely on the charisma of one man, Nigel Farage because... " he says what we think."
Therein a blueprint to create a populist party. Give simple solutions to complex issues so that stupid people don't have to think too much.
UKIP= simple politics for simple peope"
My grandfather voted laboour
My father voted labour
Therefore I vote labour
Substitute labour with any other party
That it simple politics
Who did your father vote for ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Racism isnt always about the racist feels superior sometimes its the fear of being inferior,i drew my conclusion based on your remark about being even for or anti,
of course i can know if people are equal or not, everyone is my equal..not superior or inferior but equal.
Christianity isnt an issue of morality ?
I think you may want to revise your religious history on that one mate
Gimp
A fear of being inferior and believing one to be superior both involve some sort of complex. Whichever one, it's morally wrong to think people aren't equal. I'm not saying that you're racist, btw, just saying that's how I see it.
Christianity isn't an issue of morality, no. Religion, at its core, is based on faith and the belief of God. Morals came second. People now think they must appease God with their moral righteousness to get into Heaven/Paradise or whatever.
Morality would exist without religion, and religion would exist without morality.
As for my "religious history", I did a degree in Philosophy."
Ok my first question to you would be what has Philosophy got to do with religion.
My second would be how have you come to the assumption that christianity isn't based on morality, All of the mainstream religions are centred around the same "God" who says treat others with respect and forgive weakness, Isn't that morality ?
As for myself being a racist i am descended from one of the first so called banana boat people enticed into this great country of ours and proud of it so i think i can safely say that i am far from racist.
Gimp |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Ok my first question to you would be what has Philosophy got to do with religion.
My second would be how have you come to the assumption that christianity isn't based on morality, All of the mainstream religions are centred around the same "God" who says treat others with respect and forgive weakness, Isn't that morality ?
As for myself being a racist i am descended from one of the first so called banana boat people enticed into this great country of ours and proud of it so i think i can safely say that i am far from racist.
Gimp"
Firstly, and I'll say this for the second time, I quite explicitly said that "I'm not saying you're a racist". I didn't call you a racist and said something completely to the contrary. I don't think you're a racist, so there's no need to defend yourself so vehemently. Even if you are, you don't need to justify it to me, to say the least.
Secondly, philosophy has quite a lot to do with religion, and I actually mentioned in my earlier posts that part of the modules that made up my degree were "philosophy of religion" that had a strong focus on morality and ethics. I also did my first draft of my dissertation on morality and ethics in religion; and I studied Philosophy of Religion and Ethical religious studies at school during my A Levels. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ok my first question to you would be what has Philosophy got to do with religion.
My second would be how have you come to the assumption that christianity isn't based on morality, All of the mainstream religions are centred around the same "God" who says treat others with respect and forgive weakness, Isn't that morality ?
As for myself being a racist i am descended from one of the first so called banana boat people enticed into this great country of ours and proud of it so i think i can safely say that i am far from racist.
Gimp
Firstly, and I'll say this for the second time, I quite explicitly said that "I'm not saying you're a racist". I didn't call you a racist and said something completely to the contrary. I don't think you're a racist, so there's no need to defend yourself so vehemently. Even if you are, you don't need to justify it to me, to say the least.
Secondly, philosophy has quite a lot to do with religion, and I actually mentioned in my earlier posts that part of the modules that made up my degree were "philosophy of religion" that had a strong focus on morality and ethics. I also did my first draft of my dissertation on morality and ethics in religion; and I studied Philosophy of Religion and Ethical religious studies at school during my A Levels."
Ok disregarding the fact that i felt the need to defend myself (point taken and accepted) I would argue that Religion was in existence long before the idea of philosophy was even thought about so has no bearing at all on the st johns bible the old testament (judaism)or the Koran |
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By *r-UniqueMan
over a year ago
Carmarthenshire |
"That they want to stop paid maternity leave and paid holiday from work is enough to stop me voting for them.
The fact their politicians are seemingly unable to open their mouths without putting their foot in it (not just the UKIP, I know) just confirms that none vote."
Surely that's nothing to do with politics, but the companies themselves. If they want to pay. Then it's up to them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I would argue that Religion was in existence long before the idea of philosophy was even thought about so has no bearing at all on the st johns bible the old testament (judaism)or the Koran"
Religion has much to do with being able to crush bones and eat the revealed bone marrow. That gave time to think not just hunt. Thinking about existentialist ideas is philosophy, therefore philosophy came before religion.
Whilst we are on the subject chickens evolved from dinosaurs which laid eggs so the egg came before the chicken.
And Nigel Farage is still a pretensions pratt who has found a way of making a lot of money through celebrity status.  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I would argue that Religion was in existence long before the idea of philosophy was even thought about so has no bearing at all on the st johns bible the old testament (judaism)or the Koran"
Woah, okay. So the word "philosophy" comes from the Latin "philos", meaning "love" and "sophos", meaning "wisdom". Philosophy, therefore, is "the love of wisdom". Three of the very greatest Philosophers of all time, Socrates, Plato and Aristotle were born around 300 BC. Way, WAAAY before Jesus Christ ever walked the Earth. So it very much DOES have a bearing on the St. John's bible, as it was Plato who pretty much propagated the school of monotheistic worship, and deviated from the polytheist trends that were so prevalent in Ancient Greece.
From the day that we're born, we start off as a blank slate. I would argue, without any conclusive evidence to back me up might I add, that our first "deep" thoughts are not of God, but of our existence. In fact, in order to conceive of the idea that here is a God, we have to employ some form of philosophical thinking. Ontological, deontological and teleological arguments for the existence of God are all philosophical by definition. Putting God aside, religion is the belief of God and the stories with which their religion is based- for Jews the Torah, Christians the life and death of Jesus Christ to absolve us of our sins and for Muslims the life and death of Mohammad and his preaching of the word of God, as well as the moral values/principles with which to live by as defined by earlier scholars and saints.
Philosophy came before all else in terms of human thought. Religion is a purely man-made device. God did not create it. We did.
Another fun fact for you: if you go to Wikipedia and type in ANYTHING, and press the very first link that becomes available in the definition of that subject you have chosen, you will always end up at philosophy. No matter what. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I would argue that Religion was in existence long before the idea of philosophy was even thought about so has no bearing at all on the st johns bible the old testament (judaism)or the Koran
Religion has much to do with being able to crush bones and eat the revealed bone marrow. That gave time to think not just hunt. Thinking about existentialist ideas is philosophy, therefore philosophy came before religion.
Whilst we are on the subject chickens evolved from dinosaurs which laid eggs so the egg came before the chicken.
And Nigel Farage is still a pretensions pratt who has found a way of making a lot of money through celebrity status. "
Isnt existentialism a modern concept, same as philosophy and psychology, i dont think i have seen any of those words mentioned in ancient texts.
Oh and dinosaurs were hatched from eggs i believe
Gimp |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I would argue that Religion was in existence long before the idea of philosophy was even thought about so has no bearing at all on the st johns bible the old testament (judaism)or the Koran
Religion has much to do with being able to crush bones and eat the revealed bone marrow. That gave time to think not just hunt. Thinking about existentialist ideas is philosophy, therefore philosophy came before religion.
Whilst we are on the subject chickens evolved from dinosaurs which laid eggs so the egg came before the chicken.
And Nigel Farage is still a pretensions pratt who has found a way of making a lot of money through celebrity status.
Isnt existentialism a modern concept, same as philosophy and psychology, i dont think i have seen any of those words mentioned in ancient texts.
Oh and dinosaurs were hatched from eggs i believe
Gimp"
Existentialism in terms of an educational or philosophical theory is a relatively modern concept, if you can count the 1800's as such.
Wondering where we came from is something that's gone on since long before that. Proof is in the hieroglyphics found in Ancient Egyptian tombs and walls from over 3,000 years ago. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Isnt existentialism a modern concept, same as philosophy and psychology, i dont think i have seen any of those words mentioned in ancient texts.
Oh and dinosaurs were hatched from eggs i believe
Gimp"
The words maybe derived from other languages but are English, no English is in any ancient text, and I am pretty sure no text at all existed when we started to have time to think rather than just survive.
Also the question has always been chicken or egg, if you wish to move the parameters to dinosaur or egg then I am a bit screwed as I have no knowledge of the evolution of dinosaurs, though my mate google probably has |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I would argue that Religion was in existence long before the idea of philosophy was even thought about so has no bearing at all on the st johns bible the old testament (judaism)or the Koran
Woah, okay. So the word "philosophy" comes from the Latin "philos", meaning "love" and "sophos", meaning "wisdom". Philosophy, therefore, is "the love of wisdom". Three of the very greatest Philosophers of all time, Socrates, Plato and Aristotle were born around 300 BC. Way, WAAAY before Jesus Christ ever walked the Earth. So it very much DOES have a bearing on the St. John's bible, as it was Plato who pretty much propagated the school of monotheistic worship, and deviated from the polytheist trends that were so prevalent in Ancient Greece.
From the day that we're born, we start off as a blank slate. I would argue, without any conclusive evidence to back me up might I add, that our first "deep" thoughts are not of God, but of our existence. In fact, in order to conceive of the idea that here is a God, we have to employ some form of philosophical thinking. Ontological, deontological and teleological arguments for the existence of God are all philosophical by definition. Putting God aside, religion is the belief of God and the stories with which their religion is based- for Jews the Torah, Christians the life and death of Jesus Christ to absolve us of our sins and for Muslims the life and death of Mohammad and his preaching of the word of God, as well as the moral values/principles with which to live by as defined by earlier scholars and saints.
Philosophy came before all else in terms of human thought. Religion is a purely man-made device. God did not create it. We did.
Another fun fact for you: if you go to Wikipedia and type in ANYTHING, and press the very first link that becomes available in the definition of that subject you have chosen, you will always end up at philosophy. No matter what."
I would argue that philosophy is a man made device and religion (belief in a higher being)existed long before the idea of jesus.
I would also argue that our first thought isnt philosophical its base..food, as newborns we dont think what is the meaning of life or why are we here we think im hungry wheres the tit, we are animals pure and simple
Gimp |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Proof is in the hieroglyphics found in Ancient Egyptian tombs and walls from over 3,000 years ago."
The foundation of the Egyptian society is based on ruling the masses through being better than them i.e. in modern terms the rulers were gods and could reward or punish others with god like power, therefore the text is skewed pretty much the same as all religions throughout history it's got a lot to do with holding power by controlling society.
Bet the first woman to bang two rocks together and make fire had men bowing down to her long before anyone came up with the first creation myth.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I would also argue that our first thought isnt philosophical its base..food, as newborns we dont think what is the meaning of life or why are we here we think im hungry wheres the tit, we are animals pure and simple
Gimp"
Hence my point about bone marrow, being able to eat sufficiently without spending all daylight hours foraging allowed time to let the mind wander, and only after that time is available do you start to look for answers to questions that are not important to immediate survival. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I would argue that philosophy is a man made device and religion (belief in a higher being)existed long before the idea of jesus.
I would also argue that our first thought isnt philosophical its base..food, as newborns we dont think what is the meaning of life or why are we here we think im hungry wheres the tit, we are animals pure and simple
Gimp"
Of course philosophy is a man-made device. In order to think, we must be, as was said by Descartes. An animal such as a dog couldn't ponder the questions on the nature of its existence, or about the philosophical nuances in politics.
And again, I never said that religion started with the life of Jesus Christ. Jesus himself was Jewish, and Judaism has been argued to be around 4,000 years old in some cases.
As for our first thought, I didn't say that. I said our first "deep" thought- ergo the questions like "how did we get here?" "Does God exist?" "Is there life after death?". When we become sentient, self-recognising human beings. Base "feelings", such as the desire for food, water and shelter aren't thoughts. They're natural instincts that are pre-existing and innate within us from the moment we're born. It's only when we get older that we start to "think" about food, and decide what we want to eat, rather than just eating whatever is available at the time.
I'm sorry, but your arguments aren't really making very much sense. You're not responding to my points, simply making up new objections when I counter argue the last one, and picking up on things that I'm not even saying. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Proof is in the hieroglyphics found in Ancient Egyptian tombs and walls from over 3,000 years ago.
The foundation of the Egyptian society is based on ruling the masses through being better than them i.e. in modern terms the rulers were gods and could reward or punish others with god like power, therefore the text is skewed pretty much the same as all religions throughout history it's got a lot to do with holding power by controlling society.
Bet the first woman to bang two rocks together and make fire had men bowing down to her long before anyone came up with the first creation myth.
"
I clearly used a bad example, there. I just Googled it and Hieroglyphics pretty much perfectly translates as "Holy Writing". |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I clearly used a bad example, there. I just Googled it and Hieroglyphics pretty much perfectly translates as "Holy Writing"."
No problem, they were named later by a society that thought of everything in terms of religion, plus the best and therefore surviving ones were on tombs where religion and priesthoods (again modern terms) hold sway, though other forms have been found to record crops and other items for tax / distribution records so not really holy we just didn't see it that way at the time. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Just a last thought before bed, in your study of religion was the similarity of Horus to Jesus ever mentioned? the Native Americans also had a god roughly translated as the golden one who lived on earth and essentially protected humans from the darker side of the other gods,
In fact most religions somewhere have a figure that progresses the relationship of human to gods from vengeance and wrath to forgiveness and love, and they frequently had human form and lived amongst humans.
Unfortunately the messages generally got skewed and lots died for or against the cause, but that's because we are human after all! |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"im voting ukip britain back to self rule, people to work ,protect our borders,stop spongeing gits dolites,and vote nige .....
How will they do this?
They won't do it because they can't do it. UKIP just tell the great unwashed what they want to hear. UKIP are a one man band and the popularity is based solely on the charisma of one man, Nigel Farage because... " he says what we think."
Therein a blueprint to create a populist party. Give simple solutions to complex issues so that stupid people don't have to think too much.
UKIP= simple politics for simple peope
My grandfather voted laboour
My father voted labour
Therefore I vote labour
Substitute labour with any other party
That it simple politics
Who did your father vote for ? "
What does this mean? If you think that I vote labour you are mistaken. The socialist mantra peddling misery and doom laden prophecies does not float my boat.
Anything negative switches me off as does the politics of division and isolation. The UKIP message is the same as the SNP message, unpleasant southern neighbours who we can do without.
What an irony if the Scots became Independant and joined the EU whilst the little Englanders to the South came out and started to build walls again to stop illegal immigration of "the not nice" European types trying to get in through our soft northern border with Scotland.
UKIP = simple politics! for some people... "There might be a problem, but if we deal with the foreigners.. Everything will be ok." |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I may be wrong ? But to me me ukip are anti racist ! racism isn't just about a persons shade but the country they come from ! Thier leader is married to a German !"
Prince Phillip is Greek and married to our queen who is of German decent, and he has come out with some right fucking shite
I can't help feeling that UKIP is like the BNP for the middle classes, a sort of jam, Jerusalem , and hating bloody foreigners club if something looks like shit, smells like shit, and you think it's shit, it's shit
|
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Why even respond to political stuff on a sex site but here goes
1. Shadwell love the philosophy wish I had chosen it however in debate you don't bring it up as it does nothing to ace a point or even change the ground your opponent is on
2. Ukip have one usp - eu issue. As for the rest the policies are a mess and yes the party is borderline racist
3. Bring back Bloom at least he recognised the need for more sluts this country needs lots and lots of sluts
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As for myself being a racist i am descended from one of the first so called banana boat people enticed into this great country of ours and proud of it so i think i can safely say that i am far from racist.
Gimp"
How would your ancestry or ethnicity preclude you from being racist? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Why even respond to political stuff on a sex site but here goes
1. Shadwell love the philosophy wish I had chosen it however in debate you don't bring it up as it does nothing to ace a point or even change the ground your opponent is on
2. Ukip have one usp - eu issue. As for the rest the policies are a mess and yes the party is borderline racist
3. Bring back Bloom at least he recognised the need for more sluts this country needs lots and lots of sluts
"
Yeah I get that, but if an issue arose and we were debating about the cures for diabetes or whatever (that example came off the top of my head), I would be more inclined to listen to a doctor because they were the professional and they had studied it for bloody aaaages.
Just the same, when someone tells me to "look at my religious history, mate", my having a Degree in Philosophy helps me out somewhat.
Plus I like showing off. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Farage got totally turned over by O'Brien and showed himself to lack the political intellect to make a real impact. However, I am sure he will appeal to a large number of people who like the anti-Europe, tighter immigration rhetoric and are too lazy to look at any other issues and are willing to ignore the rather unpleasant undertones that come right from the top of UKIP.
Where I do think UKIP is right is in pressing for the UK electorate to have its say on Europe. The reason they have grown in popularity is that the mainstream parties have promised a referendum in the past but have reneged on that promise. No one in the UK voted for such a seismic transfer of power to Brussels and until the mainstream parties agree to a referendum and grown up debate, UKIP will continue to make headway. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I may be wrong ? But to me me ukip are anti racist ! racism isn't just about a persons shade but the country they come from ! Thier leader is married to a German !
Prince Phillip is Greek and married to our queen who is of German decent, and he has come out with some right fucking shite
I can't help feeling that UKIP is like the BNP for the middle classes, a sort of jam, Jerusalem , and hating bloody foreigners club if something looks like shit, smells like shit, and you think it's shit, it's shit
"
And there's a pile |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The bottom line is that UKIP believe that the UK should make its own rules and enforce them to which I agree not someone in Europe who can make a fast buck. We need to close our borders get people into work who reside here before allowing others in. Why do France and Germany not give Asylum? Like they tell us to. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The bottom line is that UKIP believe that the UK should make its own rules and enforce them to which I agree not someone in Europe who can make a fast buck. We need to close our borders get people into work who reside here before allowing others in. Why do France and Germany not give Asylum? Like they tell us to."
Do France and Germany not give Asylum then?
And where does asylum fit in with UKIP's immigration policy? |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"The bottom line is that UKIP believe that the UK should make its own rules and enforce them to which I agree not someone in Europe who can make a fast buck. We need to close our borders get people into work who reside here before allowing others in. Why do France and Germany not give Asylum? Like they tell us to."
What kind of Nationalistic propaganda have you been reading? Germany accepts almost one quarter of all asylum seekers, France one fifth and the UK less that one tenth.
In many, many way the UK has a far better end deal than Germany and France. Please don't think that coming out of the EU will stop us taking refugees and asylum seekers though. The USA takes 17% of the worlds refugees.
There is still something incredibly selfish however of denying someone salvation because, by the accident of birth they were born into abject poverty, civil war and a life under constant threat. The reason that the developed world do take refugees is because they realise the fortune (or misfortune) that can befall someone as an accident of birth. |
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Close our borders, get our own into work.
Great if our own want to work.
But why are 'immigrants' cleaning toilets for minimum wage? Because 'our own' won't lower themselves and come off JSA for less money! |
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"The bottom line is that UKIP believe that the UK should make its own rules and enforce them to which I agree not someone in Europe who can make a fast buck. We need to close our borders get people into work who reside here before allowing others in. Why do France and Germany not give Asylum? Like they tell us to.
What kind of Nationalistic propaganda have you been reading? Germany accepts almost one quarter of all asylum seekers, France one fifth and the UK less that one tenth.
In many, many way the UK has a far better end deal than Germany and France. Please don't think that coming out of the EU will stop us taking refugees and asylum seekers though. The USA takes 17% of the worlds refugees.
There is still something incredibly selfish however of denying someone salvation because, by the accident of birth they were born into abject poverty, civil war and a life under constant threat. The reason that the developed world do take refugees is because they realise the fortune (or misfortune) that can befall someone as an accident of birth."
What a very good post. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I can't help feeling that UKIP is like the BNP for the middle classes, a sort of jam, Jerusalem , and hating bloody foreigners club if something looks like shit, smells like shit, and you think it's shit, it's shit
And there's a pile"
Wonder how many of the middle class BNP supporters have a holiday home in Spain or somewhere in Europe... think they may be a bit upset if we leave the EU and they lose their holiday homes |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"I can't help feeling that UKIP is like the BNP for the middle classes, a sort of jam, Jerusalem , and hating bloody foreigners club if something looks like shit, smells like shit, and you think it's shit, it's shit
And there's a pile
Wonder how many of the middle class BNP supporters have a holiday home in Spain or somewhere in Europe... think they may be a bit upset if we leave the EU and they lose their holiday homes"
That won't happen. Brits lived abroad before the EU and they still live in non EU countries today. The biggest failing in my opinion is that no one from the anti EU lobby has come up with a realistic plan for for a non EU targeted economy.
The UKIP pitch is very, very similar to that of the SNP and is based on nothing more than hope and it being all right on the night. We have a fundamentally good idea in the a EU but it has lost its way and is in need of change. Why would we walk away when we can be the driving force of change for the benefit of all European citizens. |
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"The bottom line is that UKIP believe that the UK should make its own rules and enforce them to which I agree not someone in Europe who can make a fast buck. We need to close our borders get people into work who reside here before allowing others in. Why do France and Germany not give Asylum? Like they tell us to.
What kind of Nationalistic propaganda have you been reading? Germany accepts almost one quarter of all asylum seekers, France one fifth and the UK less that one tenth.
In many, many way the UK has a far better end deal than Germany and France. Please don't think that coming out of the EU will stop us taking refugees and asylum seekers though. The USA takes 17% of the worlds refugees.
There is still something incredibly selfish however of denying someone salvation because, by the accident of birth they were born into abject poverty, civil war and a life under constant threat. The reason that the developed world do take refugees is because they realise the fortune (or misfortune) that can befall someone as an
accident of birth."
Absolutely...I don't believe that many of us are intrinsically racist, historically we have always been tolerant of immigrants, but all cultures are susceptible to the brand of populist propaganda voiced by politicians who feed on fear and ignorance. Pick targets..the EU, foreigners demonise them, blame them for all the perceived ills of the country. It's all been done before. Ultimately it will crash and burn. |
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Ukip - or its leader, certainly have shown racist leanings. But focusing on that is being distracted by the smoke screen. They have next to no clue or policies for government, will reduce your employment protection and wages, and have a leader off the same block as the rest. That slime ball is no different, he is merely playing to the masses, under the guise of a 'normal' guy, one of the people. It is a party of hypocrites, saying they hate the Eu but creaming £millions of taxpayers money - our money - to fund their lifestyles. All the time whilst doing minimal work for it. They hardly attend parliamentary meetings or vote, but greedily suck in our money. Im no mug, and feel conned out of my money. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The bottom line is that UKIP believe that the UK should make its own rules and enforce them to which I agree not someone in Europe who can make a fast buck. We need to close our borders get people into work who reside here before allowing others in. Why do France and Germany not give Asylum? Like they tell us to.
What kind of Nationalistic propaganda have you been reading? Germany accepts almost one quarter of all asylum seekers, France one fifth and the UK less that one tenth.
In many, many way the UK has a far better end deal than Germany and France. Please don't think that coming out of the EU will stop us taking refugees and asylum seekers though. The USA takes 17% of the worlds refugees.
There is still something incredibly selfish however of denying someone salvation because, by the accident of birth they were born into abject poverty, civil war and a life under constant threat. The reason that the developed world do take refugees is because they realise the fortune (or misfortune) that can befall someone as an accident of birth."
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"im voting ukip britain back to self rule, people to work ,protect our borders,stop spongeing gits dolites,and vote nige .....
How will they do this?
They won't do it because they can't do it. UKIP just tell the great unwashed what they want to hear. UKIP are a one man band and the popularity is based solely on the charisma of one man, Nigel Farage because... " he says what we think."
Therein a blueprint to create a populist party. Give simple solutions to complex issues so that stupid people don't have to think too much.
UKIP= simple politics for simple peope"
i am sure this is the type of mud slinging spicyspire was alluding to, why do you feel the need to make personal slights against people who may vote for a party that is not your cup of tea, by the way before you aim to tar me with that large brush please note i am not a UKIP supporter or voter |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"im voting ukip britain back to self rule, people to work ,protect our borders,stop spongeing gits dolites,and vote nige .....
How will they do this?
They won't do it because they can't do it. UKIP just tell the great unwashed what they want to hear. UKIP are a one man band and the popularity is based solely on the charisma of one man, Nigel Farage because... " he says what we think."
Therein a blueprint to create a populist party. Give simple solutions to complex issues so that stupid people don't have to think too much.
UKIP= simple politics for simple peope
i am sure this is the type of mud slinging spicyspire was alluding to, why do you feel the need to make personal slights against people who may vote for a party that is not your cup of tea, by the way before you aim to tar me with that large brush please note i am not a UKIP supporter or voter "
If a person wishes to have simple solutions to problems, no matter how complex the problems may be.. It is fair to say that a simple political message would attract their desires for a simple solution.
This works very well with populist parties who can simply say what people with simple outlooks, simply want to hear.
I am not the first to label UKIP politics as simple politics for simple people and I doubt that I will be the last. It is, by its very nature very simple politics targetting folk who do not want to have to think too much about wider implications. |
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"i am sure this is the type of mud slinging spicyspire was alluding to, why do you feel the need to make personal slights against people who may vote for a party that is not your cup of tea, by the way before you aim to tar me with that large brush please note i am not a UKIP supporter or voter "
This is more of a contention against UKIP, imo, than the potential voters who may consider them, in all good faith and interest. It is certainly not for the everyday person to be a political expert, instead for the politicians, so if people are hoodwinked, it is not the fault of the person who has been hoodwinked, but that of the people employing sleight techniques.
The European elections will give vst amounts of money to those who are elected. Ukip have representatives who are little short of the type of person that our country, and Europe, could well do without. I view their activities as those of hypocrites - taking all the EU cash, whilst saying how much they are against it.
They are no different from the other parties, especially when it comes to not being a party for the common man and woman.
Ukip is part of the group - Europe of Freedom and Democracy (EFD).
The group includes representatives of the Danish People’s Party, the True Finns Party, the Dutch SGP
and the infamous Italian Lega Nord – all of them far-right. Nigel Farage is co-President of the group
along with Lega Nord’s Francesco Speroni, who described multiple murderer Anders Breivik as someone whose ideas are in defence of western civilisation."
Anyone who looks behind the veneer of chumminess of this party can find some very distasteful things about them. Overlook any stuff about racism, and you'll find your wages being lowered, employment rights stuffed, not to mention the rich getting much richer, at the expense of the rest of our people. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"im voting ukip britain back to self rule, people to work ,protect our borders,stop spongeing gits dolites,and vote nige .....
How will they do this?
They won't do it because they can't do it. UKIP just tell the great unwashed what they want to hear. UKIP are a one man band and the popularity is based solely on the charisma of one man, Nigel Farage because... " he says what we think."
Therein a blueprint to create a populist party. Give simple solutions to complex issues so that stupid people don't have to think too much.
UKIP= simple politics for simple peope
i am sure this is the type of mud slinging spicyspire was alluding to, why do you feel the need to make personal slights against people who may vote for a party that is not your cup of tea, by the way before you aim to tar me with that large brush please note i am not a UKIP supporter or voter
If a person wishes to have simple solutions to problems, no matter how complex the problems may be.. It is fair to say that a simple political message would attract their desires for a simple solution.
This works very well with populist parties who can simply say what people with simple outlooks, simply want to hear.
I am not the first to label UKIP politics as simple politics for simple people and I doubt that I will be the last. It is, by its very nature very simple politics targetting folk who do not want to have to think too much about wider implications."
your not the first and you will not be the last however i have had enough of personal diatribes from all and sundry denouncing people as simple because they do not see the world as they do, notwithstanding this on.a great number of issues many peoples views differ from my own, some views i find abhorrent, however i would never insinuate that someone is simple because of their views.
It does not matter who said it first, to repeat it does not make it true.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I don't think ukip are perfect far from it ! But I'd like the uk to leave the EU ! And as far as I know they are the only Party that wants to leave the EU ! Yes I know the bnp do ! But who seriously cares what they think ! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"i am sure this is the type of mud slinging spicyspire was alluding to, why do you feel the need to make personal slights against people who may vote for a party that is not your cup of tea, by the way before you aim to tar me with that large brush please note i am not a UKIP supporter or voter
This is more of a contention against UKIP, imo, than the potential voters who may consider them, in all good faith and interest. It is certainly not for the everyday person to be a political expert, instead for the politicians, so if people are hoodwinked, it is not the fault of the person who has been hoodwinked, but that of the people employing sleight techniques.
The European elections will give vst amounts of money to those who are elected. Ukip have representatives who are little short of the type of person that our country, and Europe, could well do without. I view their activities as those of hypocrites - taking all the EU cash, whilst saying how much they are against it.
They are no different from the other parties, especially when it comes to not being a party for the common man and woman.
Ukip is part of the group - Europe of Freedom and Democracy (EFD).
The group includes representatives of the Danish People’s Party, the True Finns Party, the Dutch SGP
and the infamous Italian Lega Nord – all of them far-right. Nigel Farage is co-President of the group
along with Lega Nord’s Francesco Speroni, who described multiple murderer Anders Breivik as someone whose ideas are in defence of western civilisation."
Anyone who looks behind the veneer of chumminess of this party can find some very distasteful things about them. Overlook any stuff about racism, and you'll find your wages being lowered, employment rights stuffed, not to mention the rich getting much richer, at the expense of the rest of our people. "
i would hope that simple politics remarks are aimed at the party and not at the voters, if this was the case then so be it.
Personally, i for one would like to see a government actually deliver one policy through to its conclusion than make ten promises or pledges it can neither deliver or worst still had no intention of delivering.
As for the people who nigel farage associates with whilst he is a MEP, thats his business, you cannot be guilty by association.
I will say again i am not a UKIP voter or supporter and i am not defending his or his parties actions i just want to see real debate on issues from all the political parties and not this playground tittle tattle we are spoon fed by all the parties and the press. |
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By *r-UniqueMan
over a year ago
Carmarthenshire |
" I just want to see real debate on issues from all the political parties and not this playground tittle tattle we are spoon fed by all the parties and the press. "
Want out of the EU,
We must control immigration (maybe we can have the system the merchants/Australians have when it comes to emigrating).
Make zero hour contracts and certain machines in companies illegal as they force workers out of jobs.
Make the minimum wage match the living wage or atleast make the gap closer between the numbers.
More protection for workers in terms wages/security and benefits within the workplace.
More severe punishments for anything that involves frauding the tax system, drugs and violence.
They're my main concerns and no party claims they can do one without making the other one worse. We need more variety in our choices.
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Tribal xenophobia pretty much number one on the top ten reasons why humans kill each other x UKIP promote exclusion not inclusion thus to my mind are backward simplistic trouble makers I'm not usually pro media but glad much of the BBC is anti UKIP .
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"i am sure this is the type of mud slinging spicyspire was alluding to, why do you feel the need to make personal slights against people who may vote for a party that is not your cup of tea, by the way before you aim to tar me with that large brush please note i am not a UKIP supporter or voter
This is more of a contention against UKIP, imo, than the potential voters who may consider them, in all good faith and interest. It is certainly not for the everyday person to be a political expert, instead for the politicians, so if people are hoodwinked, it is not the fault of the person who has been hoodwinked, but that of the people employing sleight techniques.
The European elections will give vst amounts of money to those who are elected. Ukip have representatives who are little short of the type of person that our country, and Europe, could well do without. I view their activities as those of hypocrites - taking all the EU cash, whilst saying how much they are against it.
They are no different from the other parties, especially when it comes to not being a party for the common man and woman.
Ukip is part of the group - Europe of Freedom and Democracy (EFD).
The group includes representatives of the Danish People’s Party, the True Finns Party, the Dutch SGP
and the infamous Italian Lega Nord – all of them far-right. Nigel Farage is co-President of the group
along with Lega Nord’s Francesco Speroni, who described multiple murderer Anders Breivik as someone whose ideas are in defence of western civilisation."
Anyone who looks behind the veneer of chumminess of this party can find some very distasteful things about them. Overlook any stuff about racism, and you'll find your wages being lowered, employment rights stuffed, not to mention the rich getting much richer, at the expense of the rest of our people. "
I've commented before that you can tell a lot about a man by the company he keeps. And as you quite rightly say in Europe the reality is Farage is surrounded by the extreme right |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" I just want to see real debate on issues from all the political parties and not this playground tittle tattle we are spoon fed by all the parties and the press.
Want out of the EU,
We must control immigration (maybe we can have the system the merchants/Australians have when it comes to emigrating).
Make zero hour contracts and certain machines in companies illegal as they force workers out of jobs.
Make the minimum wage match the living wage or atleast make the gap closer between the numbers.
More protection for workers in terms wages/security and benefits within the workplace.
More severe punishments for anything that involves frauding the tax system, drugs and violence.
They're my main concerns and no party claims they can do one without making the other one worse. We need more variety in our choices.
"
all valid and debatable points.
There is nothing wrong with the austrailian system, arent the conservatives looking at something similar
i personally do not like zero hour contracts as they are open to abuse and its yet another step to becoming the united states of great britain
i am all for protection of workers rights however i would hate to go back to the 70's there as to be collaboration and a happy medium found
tax fraud, drugs, violent criminals, paedophiles and scammers etc should be heavily punished. If they say there going to be tough on crime then do it ket decent people live their lives without fear or intimidation from others.
|
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By *r-UniqueMan
over a year ago
Carmarthenshire |
" I just want to see real debate on issues from all the political parties and not this playground tittle tattle we are spoon fed by all the parties and the press.
Want out of the EU,
We must control immigration (maybe we can have the system the merchants/Australians have when it comes to emigrating).
Make zero hour contracts and certain machines in companies illegal as they force workers out of jobs.
Make the minimum wage match the living wage or atleast make the gap closer between the numbers.
More protection for workers in terms wages/security and benefits within the workplace.
More severe punishments for anything that involves frauding the tax system, drugs and violence.
They're my main concerns and no party claims they can do one without making the other one worse. We need more variety in our choices.
all valid and debatable points.
There is nothing wrong with the austrailian system, arent the conservatives looking at something similar
i personally do not like zero hour contracts as they are open to abuse and its yet another step to becoming the united states of great britain
i am all for protection of workers rights however i would hate to go back to the 70's there as to be collaboration and a happy medium found
tax fraud, drugs, violent criminals, paedophiles and scammers etc should be heavily punished. If they say there going to be tough on crime then do it ket decent people live their lives without fear or intimidation from others.
"
By rights I mean: You get paid if you're on sick and when on holiday as I heard UKIP is getting rid of these rights and he also wants no maternity pay to be introduced too |
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not really into politics myself , but got to say farage is a shot in the arm for politics in this country, even if you don't agree with his politics you have to admit the guy has a certain charisma about him, the other leaders are so dull. this thread has now over 125 replies can you see a thread about the other party leaders getting that many. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
" I just want to see real debate on issues from all the political parties and not this playground tittle tattle we are spoon fed by all the parties and the press.
Want out of the EU,
We must control immigration (maybe we can have the system the merchants/Australians have when it comes to emigrating).
Make zero hour contracts and certain machines in companies illegal as they force workers out of jobs.
Make the minimum wage match the living wage or atleast make the gap closer between the numbers.
More protection for workers in terms wages/security and benefits within the workplace.
More severe punishments for anything that involves frauding the tax system, drugs and violence.
They're my main concerns and no party claims they can do one without making the other one worse. We need more variety in our choices.
all valid and debatable points.
There is nothing wrong with the austrailian system, arent the conservatives looking at something similar
i personally do not like zero hour contracts as they are open to abuse and its yet another step to becoming the united states of great britain
i am all for protection of workers rights however i would hate to go back to the 70's there as to be collaboration and a happy medium found
tax fraud, drugs, violent criminals, paedophiles and scammers etc should be heavily punished. If they say there going to be tough on crime then do it ket decent people live their lives without fear or intimidation from others.
By rights I mean: You get paid if you're on sick and when on holiday as I heard UKIP is getting rid of these rights and he also wants no maternity pay to be introduced too "
if they are looking to.bring these policies in then they will.never get the chance in my opinion as they would affect to many people |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The good thing out of all this is that it should expose our voting system for the sham it is ? If ukip get 20 % in this election they get 20 % of the seats ! Fair enough ! If they get 20 % in our general election they could still get Zero Seats  how does that make sense  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The bottom line is that UKIP believe that the UK should make its own rules and enforce them to which I agree not someone in Europe who can make a fast buck. We need to close our borders get people into work who reside here before allowing others in. Why do France and Germany not give Asylum? Like they tell us to.
What kind of Nationalistic propaganda have you been reading? Germany accepts almost one quarter of all asylum seekers, France one fifth and the UK less that one tenth.
In many, many way the UK has a far better end deal than Germany and France. Please don't think that coming out of the EU will stop us taking refugees and asylum seekers though. The USA takes 17% of the worlds refugees.
There is still something incredibly selfish however of denying someone salvation because, by the accident of birth they were born into abject poverty, civil war and a life under constant threat. The reason that the developed world do take refugees is because they realise the fortune (or misfortune) that can befall someone as an accident of birth."
Don't think people are concerned about genuine asylum seekers.... More the potential benefit tourists and economic migrants sending child benefits back home....allowed under previous government but already tightened up under current one. The historic idea still persists tho and the fear of it lingers.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" I just want to see real debate on issues from all the political parties and not this playground tittle tattle we are spoon fed by all the parties and the press.
Want out of the EU,
We must control immigration (maybe we can have the system the merchants/Australians have when it comes to emigrating).
Make zero hour contracts and certain machines in companies illegal as they force workers out of jobs.
Make the minimum wage match the living wage or atleast make the gap closer between the numbers.
More protection for workers in terms wages/security and benefits within the workplace.
More severe punishments for anything that involves frauding the tax system, drugs and violence.
They're my main concerns and no party claims they can do one without making the other one worse. We need more variety in our choices.
all valid and debatable points.
There is nothing wrong with the austrailian system, arent the conservatives looking at something similar
i personally do not like zero hour contracts as they are open to abuse and its yet another step to becoming the united states of great britain
i am all for protection of workers rights however i would hate to go back to the 70's there as to be collaboration and a happy medium found
tax fraud, drugs, violent criminals, paedophiles and scammers etc should be heavily punished. If they say there going to be tough on crime then do it ket decent people live their lives without fear or intimidation from others.
By rights I mean: You get paid if you're on sick and when on holiday as I heard UKIP is getting rid of these rights and he also wants no maternity pay to be introduced too
if they are looking to.bring these policies in then they will.never get the chance in my opinion as they would affect to many people "
Luckily they aren't tho..... |
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at least nige tells it as it is as all other talk political boll...s to toe party line ive voted con all my life but ive had enough so no more for me can ukip do any worse than the lieing cheating robbing toffee nose out of touch gits we have now ?????????? |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Hereford |
UKIP, in my opinion aren't a "racist party", they are, however in the strictest ideological sense of the word a fascist party, if you remove the penchant for uniform that was present in Italy and Spain (and a failed attempt at empire building in Abyssinia), you can draw a lot of similarities in the ideology behind their policies, once you look widely than the issue of the EU. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"at least nige tells it as it is as all other talk political boll...s to toe party line ive voted con all my life but ive had enough so no more for me can ukip do any worse than the lieing cheating robbing toffee nose out of touch gits we have now ??????????"
Brill. I strongly encourage Tories to vote UKIP. Spread the right wing nice & thin  |
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"I don't think ukip are perfect far from it ! But I'd like the uk to leave the EU ! And as far as I know they are the only Party that wants to leave the EU ! Yes I know the bnp do ! But who seriously cares what they think !"
UKIP want to remove your entitlement to holidays. Is that worth voting for? |
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"at least nige tells it as it is as all other talk political boll...s to toe party line ive voted con all my life but ive had enough so no more for me can ukip do any worse than the lieing cheating robbing toffee nose out of touch gits we have now ??????????"
Ukip do not believe in equality for all people. Is that better? |
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By *r-UniqueMan
over a year ago
Carmarthenshire |
"I don't think ukip are perfect far from it ! But I'd like the uk to leave the EU ! And as far as I know they are the only Party that wants to leave the EU ! Yes I know the bnp do ! But who seriously cares what they think !
UKIP want to remove your entitlement to holidays. Is that worth voting for?"
I was all for UKIP. Until I heard about their polices for workers. Now I don't know who to vote for as they are all been proven to be shit  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know that you can count me out!!
Farage won't make things better!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I was all for UKIP. Until I heard about their polices for workers. Now I don't know who to vote for as they are all been proven to be shit "
Don't vote for a party, make a list of important issues for yourself, if the public statements don't give you an answer to them then write to each candidate and ask them how they would vote on your issues and choose from that. MEP is different to MP there does not need to be an overall party majority and independent individuals who are prepared to get involved with the committee work in Europe can be just as or more useful than a party member. |
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