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Interesting debate !
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"Just listening to the Radio and they were discussing if Organ Donors should get a free Funeral, what do you think ? Sorry if this is a sensitive subject for anybody." It seems very fair to me. | |||
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"Just listening to the Radio and they were discussing if Organ Donors should get a free Funeral, what do you think ? Sorry if this is a sensitive subject for anybody." Nah not free but at a reduced price, after all there is less of them to cremate/bury  | |||
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"i think its sad that incentives have to be discussed in order to get people to something to benifit others. its the "whats in it for me" attitude of alot of people these days which is draging the country to its knees ! what next a points sceame for giving blood !! save em up and get freebies from a book??!lol! we should be doing these things just to help others not for any reward .after all if a loved one or family member needed transplant would we not exspect an organ or blood to be found for them ?? the op out system seems better idea then those really apposed to donating would still have their choice but saves on folks who would just not getting round to registering . time for people to be more selfless and less selfish me thinks !!" It's not always about being selfish! I woke up one morning my son didn't. He was still warm so I carried out CPR whilst my husband called the ambulance. The ambulance crew arrived took over and were able to get his heart starting. We woke up our daughters, put our coats over our night clothes and followed the ambulance. This was 7am in the morning. By 9am they had our son in intensive care and we hoped for the best. Deep down I suspected Matthew was brain dead, but I clung to hope. At 5pm they confirmed he was brain dead oh and can we have his eyes etc. 24 hours earlier my life was perfect, now I'm told my son would die and they wanted to harvest his organs and chop, chop we need an answer. I didn't want my son cut up, I didn't want him dead and I certainly wasn't thinking about others, I couldn't get my head around what was happening. If others are able to say yes at that point good for them, saying someone is selfish is not fair either! Those of you making such comments haven't been in that position so can make any kind of comment since you're saints and wouldn't hesitate: good for you! | |||
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"i think its sad that incentives have to be discussed in order to get people to something to benifit others. its the "whats in it for me" attitude of alot of people these days which is draging the country to its knees ! what next a points sceame for giving blood !! save em up and get freebies from a book??!lol! we should be doing these things just to help others not for any reward .after all if a loved one or family member needed transplant would we not exspect an organ or blood to be found for them ?? the op out system seems better idea then those really apposed to donating would still have their choice but saves on folks who would just not getting round to registering . time for people to be more selfless and less selfish me thinks !! It's not always about being selfish! I woke up one morning my son didn't. He was still warm so I carried out CPR whilst my husband called the ambulance. The ambulance crew arrived took over and were able to get his heart starting. We woke up our daughters, put our coats over our night clothes and followed the ambulance. This was 7am in the morning. By 9am they had our son in intensive care and we hoped for the best. Deep down I suspected Matthew was brain dead, but I clung to hope. At 5pm they confirmed he was brain dead oh and can we have his eyes etc. 24 hours earlier my life was perfect, now I'm told my son would die and they wanted to harvest his organs and chop, chop we need an answer. I didn't want my son cut up, I didn't want him dead and I certainly wasn't thinking about others, I couldn't get my head around what was happening. If others are able to say yes at that point good for them, saying someone is selfish is not fair either! Those of you making such comments haven't been in that position so can make any kind of comment since you're saints and wouldn't hesitate: good for you! " I have seen people put in this situation and its not easy for people to ask. Many ask in a clinical manner others have more tact. With a child its never going to be easy and after all its your decision and you grief is your main concern. We can all look back and think this and that but i would have been just the same as you in that situation. | |||
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"i think its sad that incentives have to be discussed in order to get people to something to benifit others. its the "whats in it for me" attitude of alot of people these days which is draging the country to its knees ! what next a points sceame for giving blood !! save em up and get freebies from a book??!lol! we should be doing these things just to help others not for any reward .after all if a loved one or family member needed transplant would we not exspect an organ or blood to be found for them ?? the op out system seems better idea then those really apposed to donating would still have their choice but saves on folks who would just not getting round to registering . time for people to be more selfless and less selfish me thinks !! It's not always about being selfish! I woke up one morning my son didn't. He was still warm so I carried out CPR whilst my husband called the ambulance. The ambulance crew arrived took over and were able to get his heart starting. We woke up our daughters, put our coats over our night clothes and followed the ambulance. This was 7am in the morning. By 9am they had our son in intensive care and we hoped for the best. Deep down I suspected Matthew was brain dead, but I clung to hope. At 5pm they confirmed he was brain dead oh and can we have his eyes etc. 24 hours earlier my life was perfect, now I'm told my son would die and they wanted to harvest his organs and chop, chop we need an answer. I didn't want my son cut up, I didn't want him dead and I certainly wasn't thinking about others, I couldn't get my head around what was happening. If others are able to say yes at that point good for them, saying someone is selfish is not fair either! Those of you making such comments haven't been in that position so can make any kind of comment since you're saints and wouldn't hesitate: good for you! " obviously no one would dare try to say they know how you felt . loosing a child is horrific and certainly no one would claim otherwise or make light of it in anyway. the way i read thred was as an incentive to encourage people to join donor register and donate their own organs after death .not that incentive would to families having to make that descion after a loved ones death as that would be tactless and uncaring in anyones book. so as an incentive to get people to join the donor register i stand fully behind my comments. | |||
"Just listening to the Radio and they were discussing if Organ Donors should get a free Funeral, what do you think ? Sorry if this is a sensitive subject for anybody." Its not a bad idea as long as the person who died knew about it and its not misused. | |||
"i think its sad that incentives have to be discussed in order to get people to something to benifit others. its the "whats in it for me" attitude of alot of people these days which is draging the country to its knees ! what next a points sceame for giving blood !! save em up and get freebies from a book??!lol! we should be doing these things just to help others not for any reward .after all if a loved one or family member needed transplant would we not exspect an organ or blood to be found for them ?? the op out system seems better idea then those really apposed to donating would still have their choice but saves on folks who would just not getting round to registering . time for people to be more selfless and less selfish me thinks !! It's not always about being selfish! I woke up one morning my son didn't. He was still warm so I carried out CPR whilst my husband called the ambulance. The ambulance crew arrived took over and were able to get his heart starting. We woke up our daughters, put our coats over our night clothes and followed the ambulance. This was 7am in the morning. By 9am they had our son in intensive care and we hoped for the best. Deep down I suspected Matthew was brain dead, but I clung to hope. At 5pm they confirmed he was brain dead oh and can we have his eyes etc. 24 hours earlier my life was perfect, now I'm told my son would die and they wanted to harvest his organs and chop, chop we need an answer. I didn't want my son cut up, I didn't want him dead and I certainly wasn't thinking about others, I couldn't get my head around what was happening. If others are able to say yes at that point good for them, saying someone is selfish is not fair either! Those of you making such comments haven't been in that position so can make any kind of comment since you're saints and wouldn't hesitate: good for you! " big hugs to you and yours xx my family know my wishes should the worst happens they know what i want to do. i hope as a parent im never in the position you were in xx | |||
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I dont wish to leave anything behind - and certainly dont wnat no fancy stupid funeral with expensive coffins - i saw a program once about flat pack coffins - £60 - sounds good to me, hehe | |||
"i think its sad that incentives have to be discussed in order to get people to something to benifit others. its the "whats in it for me" attitude of alot of people these days which is draging the country to its knees ! what next a points sceame for giving blood !! save em up and get freebies from a book??!lol! we should be doing these things just to help others not for any reward .after all if a loved one or family member needed transplant would we not exspect an organ or blood to be found for them ?? the op out system seems better idea then those really apposed to donating would still have their choice but saves on folks who would just not getting round to registering . time for people to be more selfless and less selfish me thinks !! It's not always about being selfish! I woke up one morning my son didn't. He was still warm so I carried out CPR whilst my husband called the ambulance. The ambulance crew arrived took over and were able to get his heart starting. We woke up our daughters, put our coats over our night clothes and followed the ambulance. This was 7am in the morning. By 9am they had our son in intensive care and we hoped for the best. Deep down I suspected Matthew was brain dead, but I clung to hope. At 5pm they confirmed he was brain dead oh and can we have his eyes etc. 24 hours earlier my life was perfect, now I'm told my son would die and they wanted to harvest his organs and chop, chop we need an answer. I didn't want my son cut up, I didn't want him dead and I certainly wasn't thinking about others, I couldn't get my head around what was happening. If others are able to say yes at that point good for them, saying someone is selfish is not fair either! Those of you making such comments haven't been in that position so can make any kind of comment since you're saints and wouldn't hesitate: good for you! big hugs to you and yours xx my family know my wishes should the worst happens they know what i want to do. i hope as a parent im never in the position you were in xx" Thanks hun xx As a family we all know if the worst happens we want our organs donated: even my youngest has made that clear. I just wouldn't say someone was selfish because they didn't agree to donor donation when they still had hope their loved one might pull through. We all believe in miracles at that point. As with all things though everyone has an opinion and state what they would and wouldn't do from a lofty perch a million miles from reality! | |||
"I would prefer - that i was allowed to donate all my organs that were viable for anyone else. Squish up the rest of me so it can fit in the smallest cardboard box as poss. And then that carboard box can go in the oven at 3000'C.
I don't wish to leave anything behind - and certainly don't wnat no fancy stupid funeral with expensive coffins - i saw a program once about flat pack coffins - £60 - sounds good to me, hehe"have you thought about leaving your body to your local medical school? There is a chronic shortage of cadavers for medical students today, as a result most medical schools have to teach anatomy out of books! Not good for our future doctors!! (Also saves all the funeral costs as well as doing good!!) | |||
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"Is it Going Underground by the Jam? "No, lol. It's the music from Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence. | |||
"Is it Going Underground by the Jam?
No, lol. It's the music from Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence. "The theme tune? thats gorgeous  | |||
"Is it Going Underground by the Jam?
No, lol. It's the music from Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence.
The theme tune? thats gorgeous "It is, isn't it. My favourite piece of music ever. It's by Ruichi Sakamoto.  | |||
"Is it Going Underground by the Jam?
No, lol. It's the music from Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence.
The theme tune? thats gorgeous
It is, isn't it. My favourite piece of music ever. It's by Ruichi Sakamoto. "Im going to listen to that now,I hav'nt heard it in ages | |||
"Is it Going Underground by the Jam?
No, lol. It's the music from Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence.
The theme tune? thats gorgeous
It is, isn't it. My favourite piece of music ever. It's by Ruichi Sakamoto.
Im going to listen to that now,I hav'nt heard it in ages "A good choice to listen to relaxing in the garden with a nice glass of Chianti. Enjoy. | |||
"I don't think any changes to the current system is required." Sorry Wishy I got to disagree with you there. The current opt in system fails to provide sufficient organs for transplantation and people are dying on waiting lists. Something needs to be done to increase the dwindling supply of available organs. Road safety has had a big impact by reducing potential doners, more people are surviving accidents which means more people waiting for life saving transplants are dying I myself am waiting on the waiting list for a kidney transplant and have been on dialysis for 8 years and knowing perfectly good organs are going to waste because someone can't be arsed to get a doner card really grates. | |||
"I don't think any changes to the current system is required. Sorry Wishy I got to disagree with you there. The current opt in system fails to provide sufficient organs for transplantation and people are dying on waiting lists. Something needs to be done to increase the dwindling supply of available organs. Road safety has had a big impact by reducing potential doners, more people are surviving accidents which means more people waiting for life saving transplants are dying I myself am waiting on the waiting list for a kidney transplant and have been on dialysis for 8 years and knowing perfectly good organs are going to waste because someone can't be arsed to get a doner card really grates. " I agree, but many people who specify they wish to donate their organs. But their family have the final say, this needs to be addressed. We have never been in this situation, but can imagine it is very hard for the loved ones left behind. We have discussed organ donation with our kids, the older ones. And we all agreed to respect their wishes and donate. I can't give blood as I had a tranfusion a few years ago before the new screening process, and want to donate my organs (if they are usable because of my illness) N xx | |||
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"I don't think any changes to the current system is required. Sorry Wishy I got to disagree with you there. The current opt in system fails to provide sufficient organs for transplantation and people are dying on waiting lists. Something needs to be done to increase the dwindling supply of available organs. Road safety has had a big impact by reducing potential doners, more people are surviving accidents which means more people waiting for life saving transplants are dying I myself am waiting on the waiting list for a kidney transplant and have been on dialysis for 8 years and knowing perfectly good organs are going to waste because someone can't be arsed to get a doner card really grates. " i am very sympathetic to ur situation hun but i'm sorry i think ur being totally unfair here, who are u to assume that they just can't be arsed! there are many reasons that a person may not wish to make that choice and nobody should have the right to take it out of their hands! i myself am a doner and willingly made that choice after my own mother needed a transplant due to a hit and run drink driver but i strongly believe that a person should be able to come to that decission on their on terms and in their own time! in the back of my mind i can't help thinking that once we open the door to the 'opt out scheme' we'll be on a slippery slope leaving the flood gates open for the powers that be to make organ and blood donation mandatory with no regard to our civil or human rights! a donation should always be just that a gift of love from someone who values the beauty of life and hopes that their death will not be in vain but instead can improve the life of a stranger! maybe i'm naieveor an idealist but i'm entitled to and opinion as are u and i just think u shouldn't take it for granted that the population are just to lazy to be bothered, yes something need to be done but i'm just not convinced this is the answer! | |||
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"What worries me about the whole donor system is, what if a surgeon knows folks who could benefit from several of your organs but doesn't know you? Complete devil's advocacy I admit, but it was how I was talked out of entering the donor list or letting my kids! "As far as I know it does not work like that, after organs are harvested they are cross-matched for compatibility and go to the best match on the waiting list or to the first close match on the list, NOT to anyones friend or to the person with the deepest pockets. However I agree that the method of organ allocation should be publicized a lot more vigorously! | |||
"I don't think any changes to the current system is required. Sorry Wishy I got to disagree with you there. The current opt in system fails to provide sufficient organs for transplantation and people are dying on waiting lists. Something needs to be done to increase the dwindling supply of available organs. Road safety has had a big impact by reducing potential doners, more people are surviving accidents which means more people waiting for life saving transplants are dying I myself am waiting on the waiting list for a kidney transplant and have been on dialysis for 8 years and knowing perfectly good organs are going to waste because someone can't be arsed to get a doner card really grates. i am very sympathetic to ur situation hun but i'm sorry i think ur being totally unfair here, who are u to assume that they just can't be arsed! there are many reasons that a person may not wish to make that choice and nobody should have the right to take it out of their hands! i myself am a doner and willingly made that choice after my own mother needed a transplant due to a hit and run drink driver but i strongly believe that a person should be able to come to that decission on their on terms and in their own time! in the back of my mind i can't help thinking that once we open the door to the 'opt out scheme' we'll be on a slippery slope leaving the flood gates open for the powers that be to make organ and blood donation mandatory with no regard to our civil or human rights! a donation should always be just that a gift of love from someone who values the beauty of life and hopes that their death will not be in vain but instead can improve the life of a stranger! maybe i'm naieveor an idealist but i'm entitled to and opinion as are u and i just think u shouldn't take it for granted that the population are just to lazy to be bothered, yes something need to be done but i'm just not convinced this is the answer!" I notice that lots of people say that they should have the right to refuse to donate, that is fair enough but actions should have consequences and as the action of withholding the deads organs must result in some on the transfer waiting list dieing then those who refuse permission for harvesting should have themselves and their immediate family placed on an organ donor blacklist (if you refuse to contribute you should not receive). | |||
"I don't think any changes to the current system is required. Sorry Wishy I got to disagree with you there. The current opt in system fails to provide sufficient organs for transplantation and people are dying on waiting lists. Something needs to be done to increase the dwindling supply of available organs. Road safety has had a big impact by reducing potential doners, more people are surviving accidents which means more people waiting for life saving transplants are dying I myself am waiting on the waiting list for a kidney transplant and have been on dialysis for 8 years and knowing perfectly good organs are going to waste because someone can't be arsed to get a doner card really grates. i am very sympathetic to ur situation hun but i'm sorry i think ur being totally unfair here, who are u to assume that they just can't be arsed! there are many reasons that a person may not wish to make that choice and nobody should have the right to take it out of their hands! i myself am a doner and willingly made that choice after my own mother needed a transplant due to a hit and run drink driver but i strongly believe that a person should be able to come to that decission on their on terms and in their own time! in the back of my mind i can't help thinking that once we open the door to the 'opt out scheme' we'll be on a slippery slope leaving the flood gates open for the powers that be to make organ and blood donation mandatory with no regard to our civil or human rights! a donation should always be just that a gift of love from someone who values the beauty of life and hopes that their death will not be in vain but instead can improve the life of a stranger! maybe i'm naieveor an idealist but i'm entitled to and opinion as are u and i just think u shouldn't take it for granted that the population are just to lazy to be bothered, yes something need to be done but i'm just not convinced this is the answer!" Beautifully put, well said and you've mirrored my views xx | |||
"I don't think any changes to the current system is required. Sorry Wishy I got to disagree with you there. The current opt in system fails to provide sufficient organs for transplantation and people are dying on waiting lists. Something needs to be done to increase the dwindling supply of available organs. Road safety has had a big impact by reducing potential doners, more people are surviving accidents which means more people waiting for life saving transplants are dying I myself am waiting on the waiting list for a kidney transplant and have been on dialysis for 8 years and knowing perfectly good organs are going to waste because someone can't be arsed to get a doner card really grates. i am very sympathetic to ur situation hun but i'm sorry i think ur being totally unfair here, who are u to assume that they just can't be arsed! there are many reasons that a person may not wish to make that choice and nobody should have the right to take it out of their hands! i myself am a doner and willingly made that choice after my own mother needed a transplant due to a hit and run drink driver but i strongly believe that a person should be able to come to that decission on their on terms and in their own time! in the back of my mind i can't help thinking that once we open the door to the 'opt out scheme' we'll be on a slippery slope leaving the flood gates open for the powers that be to make organ and blood donation mandatory with no regard to our civil or human rights! a donation should always be just that a gift of love from someone who values the beauty of life and hopes that their death will not be in vain but instead can improve the life of a stranger! maybe i'm naieveor an idealist but i'm entitled to and opinion as are u and i just think u shouldn't take it for granted that the population are just to lazy to be bothered, yes something need to be done but i'm just not convinced this is the answer! I notice that lots of people say that they should have the right to refuse to donate, that is fair enough but actions should have consequences and as the action of withholding the deads organs must result in some on the transfer waiting list dieing then those who refuse permission for harvesting should have themselves and their immediate family placed on an organ donor blacklist (if you refuse to contribute you should not receive)." oh yeah i can see that one working....lmfao....next they with withdraw your right to breathe fresh air and thus suffocate you for not agreeing to the rules!!! | |||
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"Okay on my previous post I should have been more specific, I never intended to imply all those who don't register as organ doners are idle an shiftless, they're not, people choose not to donate for a whole host of reasons and they are entitled to do so and they make it known to relatives what their wishes are. But it still leaves a large group of people who just don't bother, they may be happy to donate they may not, trouble is no one knows. In an ideal world no one should need to donate we'd simply grow new ones from stem cells, sound a bit far fetched, not really, scientists have already grown functioning kidneys from stem cells alass they where only animal kidneys. There is a huge ethical and moral minefield holding back research into human stem cells mainly due to where they want to harvest the stem cells from. Then there is xeno transplantation, animals genetically modified to make them compatible for transplanting their organs into humans. This I don't really agree with but if my life depended on it I wouldn't say no. The nearest we have come to this is the use of pig and cow parts in heart valve replacements, as far as I know they are not genetically modified. Currently for kidney donation, there is the doner card and two other options available. Live doners where a family member where compatible will donate. Where no family member is compatible a more altruistic non related doner scheme which works similar to the live doner scheme only the donated organ goes to a stranger and in return get a compatible kidney." No, you were specific: if you didn't donste then you and yours should be put on a donor blacklist for being lazy and selfish: no ambiguity there!! | |||
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"No, you were specific: if you didn't donste then you and yours should be put on a donor blacklist for being lazy and selfish: no ambiguity there!! "I think you will find it was willwill4u that said about black listing people. I would never want to see anyone denied a transplant for what ever reason | |||
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"I think you will find it was willwill4u that said about black listing people. I would never want to see anyone denied a transplant for what ever reason" It was me that said there shoulld be a blacklist! unless the system has changed in the last few years it does not matter if you are a registared doner or not, your next of kin has to give permission for the harvesting of organs. I know a woman who refused such permission when her son died in a motorcycle accident even though he carried the card! | |||
I don't drink or smoke, but then again they are pretty old now, lol
How much will it cost to put me in a box and set fire to it, once I'm dead and buried?  | |||
" How much will it cost to put me in a box and set fire to it, once I'm dead and buried? "About £1,500 | |||
" How much will it cost to put me in a box and set fire to it, once I'm dead and buried?
About £1,500"ANYBODY WANT ANY BITS?  | |||
" How much will it cost to put me in a box and set fire to it, once I'm dead and buried?
About £1,500
ANYBODY WANT ANY BITS? "... Which bits you talking about ?  | |||
" How much will it cost to put me in a box and set fire to it, once I'm dead and buried?
About £1,500
ANYBODY WANT ANY BITS? "contact your local medical school and donate your body for use by them or for medical research and they will do the disposal free of charge after you have been used to train student docs after you die! | |||
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"I don't think any changes to the current system is required. Sorry Wishy I got to disagree with you there. The current opt in system fails to provide sufficient organs for transplantation and people are dying on waiting lists. Something needs to be done to increase the dwindling supply of available organs. Road safety has had a big impact by reducing potential doners, more people are surviving accidents which means more people waiting for life saving transplants are dying I myself am waiting on the waiting list for a kidney transplant and have been on dialysis for 8 years and knowing perfectly good organs are going to waste because someone can't be arsed to get a doner card really grates. i am very sympathetic to ur situation hun but i'm sorry i think ur being totally unfair here, who are u to assume that they just can't be arsed! there are many reasons that a person may not wish to make that choice and nobody should have the right to take it out of their hands! i myself am a doner and willingly made that choice after my own mother needed a transplant due to a hit and run drink driver but i strongly believe that a person should be able to come to that decission on their on terms and in their own time! in the back of my mind i can't help thinking that once we open the door to the 'opt out scheme' we'll be on a slippery slope leaving the flood gates open for the powers that be to make organ and blood donation mandatory with no regard to our civil or human rights! a donation should always be just that a gift of love from someone who values the beauty of life and hopes that their death will not be in vain but instead can improve the life of a stranger! maybe i'm naieveor an idealist but i'm entitled to and opinion as are u and i just think u shouldn't take it for granted that the population are just to lazy to be bothered, yes something need to be done but i'm just not convinced this is the answer! I notice that lots of people say that they should have the right to refuse to donate, that is fair enough but actions should have consequences and as the action of withholding the deads organs must result in some on the transfer waiting list dieing then those who refuse permission for harvesting should have themselves and their immediate family placed on an organ donor blacklist (if you refuse to contribute you should not receive)." so ur answer is to blackmail people into donating by threat of withholding vital medical life saving medical care from those who have decided against it! like i said a slippery slope to forcing people against their consent! | |||
"In the past I have been an advocate of an ‘opt out’ system… as I have the view that once you’re gone you’re gone. But the other day I was listening to a debate ( I think it was on the telly) and a woman made a very good point about organs being gifts (when they are donated). I also listen to some very strange beliefs of some oddballs …. “blood contains the memories of the person it came from”… and similar crap; which just shows how far we still have to go to enable people to make informed decisions about becoming a donor. I still fall slightly more to the side of ‘opt out’ than the current ‘opt in’, but the comment about donating being a gift did strike a chord with me. If lives can be saved…. Great! But no one has a right to ‘expect’ an organ from anyone else…. they are gifts and gifts are received not just taken. " my point exactly! | |||
"I think you will find it was willwill4u that said about black listing people. I would never want to see anyone denied a transplant for what ever reason It was me that said there shoulld be a blacklist! unless the system has changed in the last few years it does not matter if you are a registared doner or not, your next of kin has to give permission for the harvesting of organs. I know a woman who refused such permission when her son died in a motorcycle accident even though he carried the card! " the simple answer to that is if someone carries a donner card then the choice has already been made and as sad as it is for the family that decession should be taken outta their hands and the choice respected! | |||
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"I notice that lots of people say that they should have the right to refuse to donate, that is fair enough but actions should have consequences and as the action of withholding the deads organs must result in some on the transfer waiting list dieing then those who refuse permission for harvesting should have themselves and their immediate family placed on an organ donor blacklist (if you refuse to contribute you should not receive)." "so ur answer is to blackmail people into donating by threat of withholding vital medical life saving medical care from those who have decided against it! like i said a slippery slope to forcing people against their consent!" I understand what you are saying and concede that under different circumstances you would have a very valid point, however there is a chronic shortage of transplant organs and while that is the case I do not see why anyone who refuses to contribute should be be allowed take an organ from a more deserving person (one who has NOT refused permission for organ harvesting) | |||
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"so if you decide that you are willing to donate your organs then that, in your definition, makes you a more deserving person and as such in the event that you might need a transplant you will get it over someone who has not signed up..........dont see any system ever going down that road. Now lets take blood donations..........i know of someone who was a little too honest about their lifestyle and they were refused....so by your definition they wouldnt be allowed a blood transfusion in the event of an emergency. " OK again I understand your argument, but I did not say or even suggest that if you sign up as a donor you should get to queue jump. What I said is everyone should be asked to allow organ harvest when a suitable relative dies (it should be an automatic, tick box question) and if you refuse then you and your immediate family (let me add, those under the age of majority) should be placed on a black list. Maybe all of us should be required to either give blood or sign an opt out unless there is a medical reason why we should not, and those who refuse should be placed on a black list. After all our blood banks are always working hand to mouth and it would help relieve pressure on them. | |||
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"I'm sorry to say there are many and varied reasons why someone might with-hold organs from a loved one, the list would or could be massive, I think your lucky in that lynching was outlawed many decades ago, because with your opinion's and view point's i have a feeling if you tried to make any of that mandate then you would be run out of town at the very least.Death no matter how it comes to us will always be an emotional time for those left behind us, ok bring in an opt out system, make it lawful to harvest organ's if the person hasn't opted out, and make it law that if they are in the system then their beloved or family can't over-ride their choice, but a black list would just open the black market right up to total abuse, and I can see body snatching becoming a problem at some point, With the shortage's that are currently being experienced I'd say allow stem cell experiments be carried out into the growth of transplantable organs to fill the gap,at least there would be a ready supply of usable organs for all " I would agree with most of what you say, especially about stem cell research (seems to me that there are always Luddites who will block any advance). However my comments were in answer to the what seems to be an overwhelming opinion that we should have the right not to donate,to which I say fair enough but as most people choose to exercise this right resulting in a chronic shortage of organs for transplant and obviously costing millions in medical treatment and premature deaths of those waiting for organs, there is a need for a method to shock people out of their selfish attitude toward organ harvesting, and it seems to me that if it is unacceptable to have an opt out scheme then the only other alternative is to restrict access to organ transplant waiting lists. After all who would refuse permission to harvest organs if the result of their action could be to shorten their own or their off-springs lives? | |||
"so if you decide that you are willing to donate your organs then that, in your definition, makes you a more deserving person and as such in the event that you might need a transplant you will get it over someone who has not signed up..........dont see any system ever going down that road. Now lets take blood donations..........i know of someone who was a little too honest about their lifestyle and they were refused....so by your definition they wouldnt be allowed a blood transfusion in the event of an emergency. OK again I understand your argument, but I did not say or even suggest that if you sign up as a donor you should get to queue jump. What I said is everyone should be asked to allow organ harvest when a suitable relative dies (it should be an automatic, tick box question) and if you refuse then you and your immediate family (let me add, those under the age of majority) should be placed on a black list. Maybe all of us should be required to either give blood or sign an opt out unless there is a medical reason why we should not, and those who refuse should be placed on a black list. After all our blood banks are always working hand to mouth and it would help relieve pressure on them. " from your earlier post........"I do not see why anyone who refuses to contribute should be be allowed take an organ from a more deserving person (one who has NOT refused permission for organ harvesting)".............that to me suggests that if you are a donor then you are a more deserving person and should get priority! anyway its all speculative and aint going to happen anytime soon..........they will be growing organs from stem cells and other scientific measures before we have any of the systems being talked about in here | |||
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" I would agree with most of what you say, especially about stem cell research (seems to me that there are always Luddites who will block any advance). However my comments were in answer to the what seems to be an overwhelming opinion that we should have the right not to donate,to which I say fair enough but as most people choose to exercise this right resulting in a chronic shortage of organs for transplant and obviously costing millions in medical treatment and premature deaths of those waiting for organs, there is a need for a method to shock people out of their selfish attitude toward organ harvesting, and it seems to me that if it is unacceptable to have an opt out scheme then the only other alternative is to restrict access to organ transplant waiting lists. After all who would refuse permission to harvest organs if the result of their action could be to shorten their own or their off-springs lives? " There's a great big FLAW in your plan/system, COST is your KEY argument, but by with-holding organs from those who opt out, you are increasing the cost to the health service. thus to put it bluntly you'd make a good politician because most of those open their mouth's before engaging their brain, and inevitably costing the tax payer's £millions for doing nothing to help any body but themselves,. A plan needs to a good foundation before it is placed in front of a committee to be considered viable to use, and you plan leaves every one wanting and no one gaining. THE WAY FORWARD IS THE OPT OUT SYSTEM. I only hope i never have to make the choice myself, but as a family we have all sat and talked about this in the past and each individual has made his or her mind up on how they want to be treated in the event something should happen, and we all have given our organs up for transplant should they be usable, and no one of us has the right to take that choice away from the other | |||
"There's a great big FLAW in your plan/system, COST is your KEY argument, but by with-holding organs from those who opt out, you are increasing the cost to the health service. thus to put it bluntly you'd make a good politician because most of those open their mouth's before engaging their brain, and inevitably costing the tax payer's £millions for doing nothing to help any body but themselves,. A plan needs to a good foundation before it is placed in front of a committee to be considered viable to use, and you plan leaves every one wanting and no one gaining. THE WAY FORWARD IS THE OPT OUT SYSTEM. I only hope i never have to make the choice myself, but as a family we have all sat and talked about this in the past and each individual has made his or her mind up on how they want to be treated in the event something should happen, and we all have given our organs up for transplant should they be usable, and no one of us has the right to take that choice away from the other" Figures from NHSBT organ donation Thank you to the 17,120,448 people who have joined the NHS Organ Donor Register. Sunday, 23 May 2010 Since 1 April 2010 137 people have donated organs an additional 331 people have donated corneas 433 people have received the gift of sight 372 people have received transplants 7,956 people are still waiting for transplants When you look at the above figures I would ask you to give some thought to a couple of questions. Do you believe that over the past 7 1/2 weeks that the above figures cover, that out of 17.1 million registered donors only 137 have died? If you like me find this figure unrealistically small, how many relatives are withholding organs in direct opposition of the deads wishes and should that action be allowed to pass without consequences? If you like me believe that actions must have consequences, maybe you might be able to suggest a more fitting punishment for those that deny their dead relatives final gift to the rest of us (their organs) than being banned from receiving the same gift from another that they denied the rest of us? "thus to put it bluntly you'd make a good politician because most of those open their mouth's before engaging their brain, and inevitably costing the tax payer's £millions for doing nothing to help any body but themselves,." I guess we are in total agreement there, and I guess you would get many more votes than me. LoL | |||
i guess the whole donor system is something that aint going to please everyone but if it saves just ONE life then its a system worth keeping | |||
"There's a great big FLAW in your plan/system, COST is your KEY argument, but by with-holding organs from those who opt out, you are increasing the cost to the health service. thus to put it bluntly you'd make a good politician because most of those open their mouth's before engaging their brain, and inevitably costing the tax payer's £millions for doing nothing to help any body but themselves,. A plan needs to a good foundation before it is placed in front of a committee to be considered viable to use, and you plan leaves every one wanting and no one gaining. THE WAY FORWARD IS THE OPT OUT SYSTEM. I only hope i never have to make the choice myself, but as a family we have all sat and talked about this in the past and each individual has made his or her mind up on how they want to be treated in the event something should happen, and we all have given our organs up for transplant should they be usable, and no one of us has the right to take that choice away from the other Figures from NHSBT organ donation Thank you to the 17,120,448 people who have joined the NHS Organ Donor Register. Sunday, 23 May 2010 Since 1 April 2010 137 people have donated organs an additional 331 people have donated corneas 433 people have received the gift of sight 372 people have received transplants 7,956 people are still waiting for transplants When you look at the above figures I would ask you to give some thought to a couple of questions. Do you believe that over the past 7 1/2 weeks that the above figures cover, that out of 17.1 million registered donors only 137 have died? If you like me find this figure unrealistically small, how many relatives are withholding organs in direct opposition of the deads wishes and should that action be allowed to pass without consequences? If you like me believe that actions must have consequences, maybe you might be able to suggest a more fitting punishment for those that deny their dead relatives final gift to the rest of us (their organs) than being banned from receiving the same gift from another that they denied the rest of us? thus to put it bluntly you'd make a good politician because most of those open their mouth's before engaging their brain, and inevitably costing the tax payer's £millions for doing nothing to help any body but themselves,. I guess we are in total agreement there, and I guess you would get many more votes than me. LoL" All I'm saying is that you argue that it cost's millions of £s to keep someone in health care who needs an organ and can't get one, then you advocate putting families of the dead who hold out on organ's on a black list, thus placing them on prolonged medical care should they need and organ in the future thus costing many millions of £s again, that's a no win situation if I have ever seen one, or to put it another way " cutting off your nose to spite your face" the organs still wont be in the system and there will be even more people waiting because of your black list, so instead of the NHS spending a £million it will be spending twice as much, where is the economic sense in that,?????????????? | |||
"I notice that lots of people say that they should have the right to refuse to donate, that is fair enough but actions should have consequences and as the action of withholding the deads organs must result in some on the transfer waiting list dieing then those who refuse permission for harvesting should have themselves and their immediate family placed on an organ donor blacklist (if you refuse to contribute you should not receive). so ur answer is to blackmail people into donating by threat of withholding vital medical life saving medical care from those who have decided against it! like i said a slippery slope to forcing people against their consent! I understand what you are saying and concede that under different circumstances you would have a very valid point, however there is a chronic shortage of transplant organs and while that is the case I do not see why anyone who refuses to contribute should be be allowed take an organ from a more deserving person (one who has NOT refused permission for organ harvesting)" i hate to point out the obvious but just cos a person needs a transplant doesn't always mean they deserving of one (sorry if that sounds harsh but even murderers need transplants and are still entitled to them!!) and not all patients who require a transplant are so eager to offer the organs that are salvagable from them if god forbides the worst should happen! to suggest that treatment should be with-held from families of those who opt outta of organ donation is as cruel and and nasty as if someone were to suggest hell why not save ourselves the bother in the 1st place and just not treat those who need a transplant and save ourselves the cost and trouble of having to find the organs in the 1st place!!!!! (by the way just to make myself clear thats not what i'm suggesting by any means!!!! just using it as an example of how utterly stupid ur idea of fright tactics is to resolve a highly delicate situation that a lot of people feel very strongly about!!!) | |||
"There's a great big FLAW in your plan/system, COST is your KEY argument, but by with-holding organs from those who opt out, you are increasing the cost to the health service. thus to put it bluntly you'd make a good politician because most of those open their mouth's before engaging their brain, and inevitably costing the tax payer's £millions for doing nothing to help any body but themselves,. A plan needs to a good foundation before it is placed in front of a committee to be considered viable to use, and you plan leaves every one wanting and no one gaining. THE WAY FORWARD IS THE OPT OUT SYSTEM. I only hope i never have to make the choice myself, but as a family we have all sat and talked about this in the past and each individual has made his or her mind up on how they want to be treated in the event something should happen, and we all have given our organs up for transplant should they be usable, and no one of us has the right to take that choice away from the other Figures from NHSBT organ donation Thank you to the 17,120,448 people who have joined the NHS Organ Donor Register. Sunday, 23 May 2010 Since 1 April 2010 137 people have donated organs an additional 331 people have donated corneas 433 people have received the gift of sight 372 people have received transplants 7,956 people are still waiting for transplants When you look at the above figures I would ask you to give some thought to a couple of questions. Do you believe that over the past 7 1/2 weeks that the above figures cover, that out of 17.1 million registered donors only 137 have died? If you like me find this figure unrealistically small, how many relatives are withholding organs in direct opposition of the deads wishes and should that action be allowed to pass without consequences? If you like me believe that actions must have consequences, maybe you might be able to suggest a more fitting punishment for those that deny their dead relatives final gift to the rest of us (their organs) than being banned from receiving the same gift from another that they denied the rest of us? thus to put it bluntly you'd make a good politician because most of those open their mouth's before engaging their brain, and inevitably costing the tax payer's £millions for doing nothing to help any body but themselves,. I guess we are in total agreement there, and I guess you would get many more votes than me. LoL All I'm saying is that you argue that it cost's millions of £s to keep someone in health care who needs an organ and can't get one, then you advocate putting families of the dead who hold out on organ's on a black list, thus placing them on prolonged medical care should they need and organ in the future thus costing many millions of £s again, that's a no win situation if I have ever seen one, or to put it another way " cutting off your nose to spite your face" the organs still wont be in the system and there will be even more people waiting because of your black list, so instead of the NHS spending a £million it will be spending twice as much, where is the economic sense in that,?????????????? "good point and very nicely put hun xx | |||
