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Clegg vs Farage : The Europe Debate
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
For the politics nerds, is anyone going to watch or listen to this tonight?
actually even though my views on europe as much closer to Cleggs... have to say I am interested to see how Farage preforms |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"For the politics nerds, is anyone going to watch or listen to this tonight?
actually even though my views on europe as much closer to Cleggs... have to say I am interested to see how Farage preforms"
Thats boring far better chatting about the MEN at Chelsea thrashing the BOYS at Arsenal what was it 6:0? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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whats the point in clegg though his party is dead in the water they will get slaughtered in the election so whatever his views are will count for nothing |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Ok..showing total ignorance here..I have no Iidea who either of them are specifically.
they are both in government ?promise to change the country for the better but what have either of them actually achieved to back up their claims ?
All I know is I now cant afford to buy my own property as a single person working full time in health care and im paying into a pension fund that il probably never see
Is this likely to change any time soon? I doubt it .
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm not convinced Clegg can make anyone look a pratt but will be interesting viewing. Taking their 'policies' out of the equation I'd say Farage is probably the quicker thinker and a better speaker.
Depends if it's really and kind of true debate or all carefully controlled sound-bites.
I'll watch if only to reassert my belief that any desire to become a politician should preclude you from ever doing so.
Politics is show-business for ugly people.
Jay Leno, or maybe Ronald Reagan.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you watched any of the EU parliment before, Farage is actually a fairly adept speaker albeit slightly venomous (passionate yet inappropriate)."
If he's such an adept speaker, why does he go on the defensive ( a sign of guilt and ignorance in my eyes) and cut short interviews, saying he doesn't want to "carry on with this interview"? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If he's such an adept speaker, why does he go on the defensive ( a sign of guilt and ignorance in my eyes) and cut short interviews, saying he doesn't want to "carry on with this interview"?"
I did say inappriopriate too.
I don't like the guy nor support UKIP but I think Clegg doesn't stand a chance here. I can't be bothered to elaborate for the same reason I've only watched the first 10 minutes; as much as I love politics I find it all incredibly frustrating. |
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theres a Scottish fatwa out on farage .. . . .a farage fatwank..men save up their sperm until their sack is bursting at the seams then stand on watch at the border ,he ambushed us the last time and the chain of command could only come up with unfertilized hens eggs and trifle at such short notice x x X  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ok..showing total ignorance here..I have no Iidea who either of them are specifically.
they are both in government ?promise to change the country for the better but what have either of them actually achieved to back up their claims ?
All I know is I now cant afford to buy my own property as a single person working full time in health care and im paying into a pension fund that il probably never see
Is this likely to change any time soon? I doubt it .
"
No. Nigel Farage is not an MP. But he is an MEP (a member of the European parliament - how's that for hypocrisy?). He's only interested in pulling the UK out of Europe, and preying on the ignorant by over-using the word "immigration" (not to mention using false and over-inflated statistics), just to try and win over votes from the not-so bright population of the UK; mainly those who used to vote BNP until they were laughed out of most constituencies.
Strangely enough, in a recent poll by the BBC and, to quote, "some UKIP supporters tell pollsters they want to stay in the EU". Work that one out for yourself. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"theres a Scottish fatwa out on farage .. . . .a farage fatwank..men save up their sperm until their sack is bursting at the seams then stand on watch at the border ,he ambushed us the last time and the chain of command could only come up with unfertilized hens eggs and trifle at such short notice x x X "
Top marks to the good people of Scotland for giving Farage a not-so warm welcome last year!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ok..showing total ignorance here..I have no Iidea who either of them are specifically.
they are both in government ?promise to change the country for the better but what have either of them actually achieved to back up their claims ?
All I know is I now cant afford to buy my own property as a single person working full time in health care and im paying into a pension fund that il probably never see
Is this likely to change any time soon? I doubt it .
No. Nigel Farage is not an MP. But he is an MEP (a member of the European parliament - how's that for hypocrisy?). He's only interested in pulling the UK out of Europe, and preying on the ignorant by over-using the word "immigration" (not to mention using false and over-inflated statistics), just to try and win over votes from the not-so bright population of the UK; mainly those who used to vote BNP until they were laughed out of most constituencies.
Strangely enough, in a recent poll by the BBC and, to quote, "some UKIP supporters tell pollsters they want to stay in the EU". Work that one out for yourself."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"its an interesting watch so far.... interesting to see how farage gets flustered and trying to have this debate without using the word immigration...."
But who do you think Joe Public will think is winning the debate? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"its an interesting watch so far.... interesting to see how farage gets flustered and trying to have this debate without using the word immigration...."
I rest my case, Fabio! |
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
But who do you think Joe Public will think is winning the debate?"
good question... i think clegg is slightly ahead purely on debating.... but how many people believe him after the last set of leaders debates may well be the more interesting question |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"its an interesting watch so far.... interesting to see how farage gets flustered and trying to have this debate without using the word immigration...."
There wouldn't be a lot of point in discussing Europe and the EU without mentioning immigration. |
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
good watch... some interesting stuff.... farage shot himself in the foot over gay marriage, clegg won on figures , farage i think won the referendum question
clegg started slow and got into his groove..farage got a bit more "ranty" as it went along than i though he would be.....
farage got caught up on figures big time
i think farage final statement with regards to blood on western hands over ukraine is an interesting one.... wonder if many people caught it and will gloss over it |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"good watch... some interesting stuff.... farage shot himself in the foot over gay marriage, clegg won on figures , farage i think won the referendum question
clegg started slow and got into his groove..farage got a bit more "ranty" as it went along than i though he would be.....
farage got caught up on figures big time
i think farage final statement with regards to blood on western hands over ukraine is an interesting one.... wonder if many people caught it and will gloss over it"
A pretty good summation Fabio. Clegg did a good job of trying to base the discussion around real facts, but Farage's rhetoric was probably more appealing. I would have it as a narrow victory for Farage, but only because Clegg in trying to defend the EU and all the good he thinks it does missed the point a little. To believe the UK would simply be ignored in the global economy if it left is crazy and that is where I gave Farage the narrow victory. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
Politicians speak of an 'in-out' referendum but in reality it's an 'out' referendum cos we're already in.
I can't see either of the main parties calling a referendum and putting that at risk. |
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
A pretty good summation Fabio. Clegg did a good job of trying to base the discussion around real facts, but Farage's rhetoric was probably more appealing. I would have it as a narrow victory for Farage, but only because Clegg in trying to defend the EU and all the good he thinks it does missed the point a little. To believe the UK would simply be ignored in the global economy if it left is crazy and that is where I gave Farage the narrow victory."
Farage kept trying to hammer home the point of 485 million people potentially having access to the UK... If instead of trying to fudge, Clegg had said "well 65 million people in the UK have access potentially to jobs in 27 different countries... of which 1.5 million UK citizens do take advantage of that and live and work in the EU" it would have killed that line dead.....
I don't think Clegg hammered the point of education and the NHS being severly restricted if the uk left the EU strong enough.. it was a passing point....
Farage needs to get some plausable answers on gay marriage and not voting for any legistlation that helps uk citizens in the EU sorted
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Ok..showing total ignorance here..I have no Iidea who either of them are specifically.
they are both in government ?promise to change the country for the better but what have either of them actually achieved to back up their claims ?
All I know is I now cant afford to buy my own property as a single person working full time in health care and im paying into a pension fund that il probably never see
Is this likely to change any time soon? I doubt it .
No. Nigel Farage is not an MP. But he is an MEP (a member of the European parliament - how's that for hypocrisy?). He's only interested in pulling the UK out of Europe, and preying on the ignorant by over-using the word "immigration" (not to mention using false and over-inflated statistics), just to try and win over votes from the not-so bright population of the UK; mainly those who used to vote BNP until they were laughed out of most constituencies.
Strangely enough, in a recent poll by the BBC and, to quote, "some UKIP supporters tell pollsters they want to stay in the EU". Work that one out for yourself."
Because ukip is a protest vote to highlight a specific issue to the major parties.
Many will want to stay in however they will disagree with the level of interference and free movement.
Many would prefer to stay within the economic block as we originally decided but with drawl from the political union that came into place afterwards as some of the Scandinavian countries have |
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"its an interesting watch so far.... interesting to see how farage gets flustered and trying to have this debate without using the word immigration....
But who do you think Joe Public will think is winning the debate?"
Joe public thought that Farage won the debate by a landslide if you look at the Yougov poll that was shown on sky news after the debate had finished, 57% for Farage and 34% for clegg. It just goes to show how out of touch the political elite in Westminster are on the EU and immigration, and the average man in the street is with Farage, he tells it like it is, while clegg just kept trying to dodge important questions! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Clegg is such a dull man his point will be lost regardless of it's merit."
He lacks charisma these days and in general looks a troubled man. Go back 5 years and he looked fresh somewhat interesting but its all evaporated I dare say he couldn't maintain the charade. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Clegg is such a dull man his point will be lost regardless of it's merit.
He lacks charisma these days and in general looks a troubled man. Go back 5 years and he looked fresh somewhat interesting but its all evaporated I dare say he couldn't maintain the charade. "
As we say locally - his erse is oot the windae. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Clegg is such a dull man his point will be lost regardless of it's merit.
He lacks charisma these days and in general looks a troubled man. Go back 5 years and he looked fresh somewhat interesting but its all evaporated I dare say he couldn't maintain the charade.
As we say locally - his erse is oot the windae."
If his windae opens  Its sad really all the politicians we get down here are wishy washy these days no spirit conviction and nobody prepared to say it as it is. A good batch of comprehensive school PMs with working life experience would be nice though its not going to happen I think. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Those two Pratts should be put up in the box seats while watching the Muppet Show.
They both speak about as much sense as Waldorf and Stadler!
As far as the Europe debate is concerned, we are much closer culturally and politically to the United States so if we are to go down the federalist road maybe we should join them as one of their States.
It worked well for Hawaii
;) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
As far as the Europe debate is concerned, we are much closer culturally and politically to the United States so if we are to go down the federalist road maybe we should join them as one of their States.
It worked well for Hawaii
;)"
Good god no! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Clegg will show him for the pratt he is"
well you got it wrong didnt you? lol.
farage came out of the first debate with an enhanced reputation, according to polls, and i think there is the chance he will do the same tonight.
unfortunately i think Clegg is arguing without direction.
farage seems to have prices, facts and figures to back up his arguments, whether they are right or wrong, whereas Clegg seems to just trundle out the age old 'jobs will go, lives will be worse, mutant jellyfish will take over our chip shops' and so on |
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It seems from comments I've seen here and elsewhere that when it comes to garage, people are playing the man, not the ball. Clegg is condemned by his actions, and rightly so IMHO. Everything from refusing to help forgemasters (in his OWN constituency, ffs!) Secure an 80m loan for vital plant not long after the election, to spitting his dummy out over electoral reform and boundary changes. And let's not get started on the rank hypocrisy of the student fees debacle.
Farage can certainly talk the talk. Whether he can walk the walk remains to be seen. But if it came down to a choice between ukip, the libdems who seem to be both divisive an petulant, the economically illiterate labour party run by a man bought and paid for by the union barons who stabbed his own brother in the back for the job, or the Tories who were so interested in jockeying for position among themselves instead of being all over Labour like a cheap suit that they blew what should have been an easy victory, then my support goes for ukip.
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
think clegg overdid it slightly at the end of the ukraine/syria question... Farage saying no more wars is compelling, dont think being so close to putin helps and don't think he clarified last weeks statement |
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
clegg does a much better job of dealing with the "485 million" point this week... I don't think scarmongering is helping farage.... think farage was expecting some applause at the end of his "lower white working class" bit...silence...
may appeal in the burbs... not necessarily in the big cities.... |
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
farage this week kinda reminds me of a boxer in that he is doing just enough to keep everyone interest... does nothing for 2 of the 3 minutes, but this just enough in that last minute to nick the odd round or two.... |
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
good closing comments from both... cleggs was better
much better preformance from clegg overall...
farage started slower and got more confident as it went on.....
closer this week... close win for clegg in my eyes... |
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
I am not sure if Farage pointing out the "white working class" helps... dangerous game to play
it will play to the conservatives he is up against in "ukip" heartland... rural east of england.... and to those disaffected BNP/Labour supporters in the North |
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"I am not sure if Farage pointing out the "white working class" helps... dangerous game to play..........."
You're right. He's skating on thin ice. I bet by midday tomorrow someone will be claiming racist too. But tbh it need saying. White working class are frankly an overlooked group in todays PC landscape. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Farage has a comfortable win in my opinion."
I think Clegg came across better, but in trying to defend the EU and everything it stands for when the majority of people are not at all convinced by the argument and want a referendum now to hear a proper debate, he appears weak and out of touch and Farage will always win the populist opinion because he is saying what a lot of people want to hear. |
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Farage has a comfortable win in my opinion.
I think Clegg came across better, but in trying to defend the EU and everything it stands for when the majority of people are not at all convinced by the argument and want a referendum now to hear a proper debate, he appears weak and out of touch and Farage will always win the populist opinion because he is saying what a lot of people want to hear."
actually... even though we dont agree on things politically... I agree with you!  
I don't think it was anywhere near the levels they are saying... Clegg I thought won the 1st half of the debate, Farage won the 2nd..... I wonder for peoples attention spans... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Farage has a comfortable win in my opinion.
I think Clegg came across better, but in trying to defend the EU and everything it stands for when the majority of people are not at all convinced by the argument and want a referendum now to hear a proper debate, he appears weak and out of touch and Farage will always win the populist opinion because he is saying what a lot of people want to hear.
actually... even though we dont agree on things politically... I agree with you!
I don't think it was anywhere near the levels they are saying... Clegg I thought won the 1st half of the debate, Farage won the 2nd..... I wonder for peoples attention spans... "
Would be interested to hear where you think we disagree!!  |
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"Farage has a comfortable win in my opinion.
I think Clegg came across better, but in trying to defend the EU and everything it stands for when the majority of people are not at all convinced by the argument and want a referendum now to hear a proper debate, he appears weak and out of touch and Farage will always win the populist opinion because he is saying what a lot of people want to hear.
actually... even though we dont agree on things politically... I agree with you!
I don't think it was anywhere near the levels they are saying... Clegg I thought won the 1st half of the debate, Farage won the 2nd..... I wonder for peoples attention spans...
Would be interested to hear where you think we disagree!! "
Well he's straight darling.......
X |
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"Farage has a comfortable win in my opinion.
I think Clegg came across better, but in trying to defend the EU and everything it stands for when the majority of people are not at all convinced by the argument and want a referendum now to hear a proper debate, he appears weak and out of touch and Farage will always win the populist opinion because he is saying what a lot of people want to hear.
actually... even though we dont agree on things politically... I agree with you!
I don't think it was anywhere near the levels they are saying... Clegg I thought won the 1st half of the debate, Farage won the 2nd..... I wonder for peoples attention spans... "
Really? That sounds a little patronising. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Clegg is such a dull man his point will be lost regardless of it's merit.
He lacks charisma these days and in general looks a troubled man. Go back 5 years and he looked fresh somewhat interesting but its all evaporated I dare say he couldn't maintain the charade. "
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Ukip are dangerous.....a lot of political descent and voters do a protest vote. England want to look to Scotland, to see the damage a protest vote has done here...
Mr Salmonds work will take decades to unravel and if he gets his way centuries |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Hello all,
my feeling is not who won or lost but that we are not being allowed to make a judgement on whether we stay in or pull out.
The present situation seems to be that if there is a change of direction in Europe then we can have a referendum to see if we want to stay.
Surely we should now have a referendum to see what the country wants, not what the politicians feel is best for us?
With regard to the debate, then I felt that I could not believe the statistics, as bald statements do not necessarily tell the whole truth, e.g. the percentage of laws passed, maybe they were passed in our parliament but were we obliged because of EU legislation?
Alec |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Farage vs Clegg is just another form of propaganda to make you not want to vote so the Tories wont get toppled.
Alan B'stard versus Father Dougal Maguire is basically what that debate is. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Farage vs Clegg is just another form of propaganda to make you not want to vote so the Tories wont get toppled.
Alan B'stard versus Father Dougal Maguire is basically what that debate is."
What a brilliant comparison is Cameron then Father Ted? |
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It's a hard watch, with those two on.
Clegg is totally untrustworthy, having lied before the elections, and sold his party out, just for the short term taste of power.
Farage is of the swivel eyed loons brigade, and is a somewhat lucky opportunist. He's a lightweight, the party's not got any proposed policies of the depth needed, in order to govern a country during some of the toughest years in recent memory. He's done marginally better than many of the old protest parties, but it's not been hard, during times of austerity and turmoil.
Much as I loathe Clegg, I think he won. I wouldn't trust any of the polls, unless they were made of people who were polled in depth, about policies and fuller opinions, rather than just from twitter post counts etc. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Farage vs Clegg is just another form of propaganda to make you not want to vote so the Tories wont get toppled.
Alan B'stard versus Father Dougal Maguire is basically what that debate is.
What a brilliant comparison is Cameron then Father Ted? "
I wish lol he's Dick Burn |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Farage vs Clegg is just another form of propaganda to make you not want to vote so the Tories wont get toppled.
Alan B'stard versus Father Dougal Maguire is basically what that debate is.
What a brilliant comparison is Cameron then Father Ted?
I wish lol he's Dick Burn "
Ha even better love it  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Farage vs Clegg is just another form of propaganda to make you not want to vote so the Tories wont get toppled.
Alan B'stard versus Father Dougal Maguire is basically what that debate is.
What a brilliant comparison is Cameron then Father Ted?
I wish lol he's Dick Burn
Ha even better love it "
IDS would have to be Larry, the priest that keeps dying in horrific ways. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I dont really think that any of them won. I believe that whoever supports Clegg will still support Clegg and whoever supports Farage will still support Farage. I did not see any arguement to turn either way |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"theres a Scottish fatwa out on farage .. . . .a farage fatwank..men save up their sperm until their sack is bursting at the seams then stand on watch at the border ,he ambushed us the last time and the chain of command could only come up with unfertilized hens eggs and trifle at such short notice x x X "
that's put me right off scotch eggs ,I take it your be voting yes then humpty dumpty
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I dont really think that any of them won. I believe that whoever supports Clegg will still support Clegg and whoever supports Farage will still support Farage. I did not see any arguement to turn either way"
You are most likely correct people will still in the main vote as they normally do but what will happen is if he gets a fair few votes the main parties will move in on his policies although watered down. That may be good or bad who knows. |
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"It's a hard watch, with those two on.
Clegg is totally untrustworthy, having lied before the elections, and sold his party out, just for the short term taste of power.
Farage is of the swivel eyed loons brigade, and is a somewhat lucky opportunist. He's a lightweight, the party's not got any proposed policies of the depth needed, in order to govern a country during some of the toughest years in recent memory. He's done marginally better than many of the old protest parties, but it's not been hard, during times of austerity and turmoil.
Much as I loathe Clegg, I think he won. I wouldn't trust any of the polls, unless they were made of people who were polled in depth, about policies and fuller opinions, rather than just from twitter post counts etc. "
The poll result of 68% for Farage, and 27% for Clegg is the result of a simple question.....Who won the debate tonight?
It's a Yougov poll, and the people asked in the poll were from a broad range of the british public,.... Lib dem, tory, Labour, UKIP, green party and people who vote for other parties or independant candidates, so what is not to trust about the poll????
I think the result is quite clear and again a landslide victory for Farage and UKIP.
Clegg showed yet again how out of touch he is (and the other political elite in westminster) on EU rules and laws, immigration and a british referendum on our EU membership.
If anyone is the swivel eyed loons brigade then it looked like it was Clegg and all his supporters tonight. It was hilarious to see Lib dem MP's like Danny Alexander trying to dismiss the clear results of the yougov poll and still claiming clegg won the debate.
As for saying UKIP does not have any clear policies, you failed to mention that Labour, Conservative and also the Lib Dems have not released their manifesto's yet for the next general election either. So by definition they do not yet have any clear policies for the next general election either. For example i'll be damned if i know what the Labour party stands for these days????
We can start to talk policies when each party releases their manifesto's for the next general election. |
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its just a focus group for the country. ukip on the right of the cons, libs on the left of labour. If the country like what farage says then the conservatives can be more right wing, if not they will stay in the middle ground. Basically politics is bollox, propaganda, spin and befuddlement. in the meantime the conservatives mates have had a right result in the selling of royal mail in which many politicians will benefit indirecly. Its a club and we aint in it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Agree with Fabio, the whole "Working white people becoming an underclass" thing is dangerously close to....well a battle cry that was used in the past and didn't end so well for anyone not in that underclass at the time.
And it's not true anyway. The only forgotten about people in this country are working childless married couples.
I'm in serious danger of having to leave Scotland if the right get their way here, and having to leave England if UKIP start gaining power there. |
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"It's a hard watch, with those two on.
Clegg is totally untrustworthy, having lied before the elections, and sold his party out, just for the short term taste of power.
Farage is of the swivel eyed loons brigade, and is a somewhat lucky opportunist. He's a lightweight, the party's not got any proposed policies of the depth needed, in order to govern a country during some of the toughest years in recent memory. He's done marginally better than many of the old protest parties, but it's not been hard, during times of austerity and turmoil.
Much as I loathe Clegg, I think he won. I wouldn't trust any of the polls, unless they were made of people who were polled in depth, about policies and fuller opinions, rather than just from twitter post counts etc. "
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Political commentator summed it up on Newsnight by saying its a bit like 2 bald men fighting over a comb..
how relevant either of their positions are to the 2015 election is debatable..
the European elections will set the agenda for the Tories and Labour to hone their own policies, think most people will stick with 'what they know'..
whether that's the best way who knows.. |
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"It's a hard watch, with those two on.
Clegg is totally untrustworthy, having lied before the elections, and sold his party out, just for the short term taste of power.
Farage is of the swivel eyed loons brigade, and is a somewhat lucky opportunist. He's a lightweight, the party's not got any proposed policies of the depth needed, in order to govern a country during some of the toughest years in recent memory. He's done marginally better than many of the old protest parties, but it's not been hard, during times of austerity and turmoil.
Much as I loathe Clegg, I think he won. I wouldn't trust any of the polls, unless they were made of people who were polled in depth, about policies and fuller opinions, rather than just from twitter post counts etc.
The poll result of 68% for Farage, and 27% for Clegg is the result of a simple question.....Who won the debate tonight?
It's a Yougov poll, and the people asked in the poll were from a broad range of the british public,.... Lib dem, tory, Labour, UKIP, green party and people who vote for other parties or independant candidates, so what is not to trust about the poll????
I think the result is quite clear and again a landslide victory for Farage and UKIP.
Clegg showed yet again how out of touch he is (and the other political elite in westminster) on EU rules and laws, immigration and a british referendum on our EU membership.
If anyone is the swivel eyed loons brigade then it looked like it was Clegg and all his supporters tonight. It was hilarious to see Lib dem MP's like Danny Alexander trying to dismiss the clear results of the yougov poll and still claiming clegg won the debate.
As for saying UKIP does not have any clear policies, you failed to mention that Labour, Conservative and also the Lib Dems have not released their manifesto's yet for the next general election either. So by definition they do not yet have any clear policies for the next general election either. For example i'll be damned if i know what the Labour party stands for these days????
We can start to talk policies when each party releases their manifesto's for the next general election."
This |
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"Political commentator summed it up on Newsnight by saying its a bit like 2 bald men fighting over a comb..
how relevant either of their positions are to the 2015 election is debatable..
the European elections will set the agenda for the Tories and Labour to hone their own policies, think most people will stick with 'what they know'..
whether that's the best way who knows.."
Both party's will be very relevant come 2015.
Neither will be in government, but the rotting corpse of the Lib Dems will be something for the Tories and Labour to scrap over and I expect Labour to (just) win that battle.
The UKIP position is a bit more complicated. The Tories are running very scared. They know only too well that UKIP will cause havoc in some of their marginal (and not so marginal) seats, and in most (but not all) Labour will be the beneficiary. I do expect UKIP to pick up a few seats, mostly in the east and south east of England at the Tories expense, but Labour shouldn't be too complacent.
While it could not be described as a flood there is a steady stream of traditional Labour supporters defecting to UKIP. While Labour had a comfortable win in the Wythenshawe by election, it should be noted that UKIP took 18% in what has always been a Labour stronghold, even the candidate was an ex Labour man. There will be some Labour seats that will change hands in 2015 either to UKIP or because of the UKIP factor.
The biggest problem for the main party's is leadership. Cameron, although not the original Mr Slippery (Blair will always wear that crown) is a very close second. Milliband just isn't Prime Minister material, even the most loyal Labour supporters must lament his performances at the despatch box. Clegg? well need I say anything other than if I shook his hand I would count my fingers.
That is where Farage comes out on top, not because he would make a better PM. He probably wouldn't, but because he connects with a sizeable chunk of the electorate who are sick to the back teeth of career politicians.
As a footnote Labour has one other big problem that could bite them on the arse before the next election. That is the slow motion train wreck known as France.
Milliband was gushing in his praise for Hollande only just over a year ago, and as the situation in France gets worse (which it will) expect the Tories and UKIP to use it to go for Millibands throat.
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"I am utterly sick of seeing Nigel farage on my tv. Why does he have a platform to speak? No one in his party has even held a deposit in this country yet here he is again on my tv. Ridiculous. "
I would hardly call second place in the last three by elections lost deposit territory. I think you will find that the Lib Dems have lost more deposits recently. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am utterly sick of seeing Nigel farage on my tv. Why does he have a platform to speak? No one in his party has even held a deposit in this country yet here he is again on my tv. Ridiculous.
I would hardly call second place in the last three by elections lost deposit territory. I think you will find that the Lib Dems have lost more deposits recently."
think he means in scotland |
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Farage has had far too much coverage on tv, especially at license fee payers expense - such as on Question Time and the BBC debate last night.
ukip have no MPs! Other parties, such as Respect, the Greens (E&W), the SNP, Plaid Cymru, the Alliance, the SDLP, Sinn Fein, the DUP and the UUP all have more MPs than UKIP, so should get far more TV coverage. And certainly should be in line for any leadership debate etc, in advance of a swivel eyed loon party that has not got a single UK MP in our parliament. |
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Farage has had far too much coverage on tv, especially at license fee payers expense - such as on Question Time and the BBC debate last night.
ukip have no MPs! Other parties, such as Respect, the Greens (E&W), the SNP, Plaid Cymru, the Alliance, the SDLP, Sinn Fein, the DUP and the UUP all have more MPs than UKIP, so should get far more TV coverage. And certainly should be in line for any leadership debate etc, in advance of a swivel eyed loon party that has not got a single UK MP in our parliament. "
ukip may have no MP's... but the problem is that because the Euro Elections are done partly on PR... I bet they will win the most votes..
the thing is what this will do is Galvanise there support and it will get out.... can you honestly say the same for the other parties? I don't think you can
people who want to a protest vote who say "stuff the tories/labour/lib dem".... there is your answer... he has positioned himself at the populist party (some dangerous policies that people wont know about!)
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You're right Fabio.
Farage is just an opportunist who has seen potential for his ego to be licked, on the back of discontent and trying to appeal to voters who don't think very deeply, nor who try to understand much about economics, or scrutinise party manifestos.
They're a party of hot air, leeching like parasites off EU money, as hypocrites, and having no great depth.
They should not be given TV coverage that is way over their competitors levels, based on their UK MPs in our parliament. For months we've had them on Question Time etc, when other parties, with actual MPs have had little or no coverage. |
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"You're right Fabio.
Farage is just an opportunist who has seen potential for his ego to be licked, on the back of discontent and trying to appeal to voters who don't think very deeply, nor who try to understand much about economics, or scrutinise party manifestos.
They're a party of hot air, leeching like parasites off EU money, as hypocrites, and having no great depth.
They should not be given TV coverage that is way over their competitors levels, based on their UK MPs in our parliament. For months we've had them on Question Time etc, when other parties, with actual MPs have had little or no coverage."
It was a debate about the UK's membership of the EU, so really what would have been the point in having the green party leader or someone from Sinn Fein or the DUP in the line-up for the debate?
Also this was Clegg's idea, he invited Farage to take part in the debates. Really you should be asking Nick Clegg why he did'nt invite representatives from other parties to take part. UKIP only accepted an invitation.
You keep saying UKIP don't have any MP's but they do have a large number of MEP's in the European parliament, and also a good number of councillors who have been democratically elected in local elections. UKIP are doing very well in all of the opinion polls, in fact higher than the lib dems opinion poll ratings, so UKIP currently represent the views of a high number of the UK population at the present time.
To generalise about UKIP voters as you have done saying they don't think deeply or understand much about economics is just simpy not true. The Labour party claim to be experts in economics and just look at the debt and mess they got us into financially. As i said in previous comment, we can talk policies when each party releases their manifesto's for the next general election, i'm still waiting to see what Labour, the Conservatives and the lib dems come up with in their manifesto's which they have not released yet. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You're right Fabio.
Farage is just an opportunist who has seen potential for his ego to be licked, on the back of discontent and trying to appeal to voters who don't think very deeply, nor who try to understand much about economics, or scrutinise party manifestos.
They're a party of hot air, leeching like parasites off EU money, as hypocrites, and having no great depth.
They should not be given TV coverage that is way over their competitors levels, based on their UK MPs in our parliament. For months we've had them on Question Time etc, when other parties, with actual MPs have had little or no coverage."
TV coverage bahahahahah this is rich coming from you of all people .they ukip get hardly any TV coverage simply because the big parties are scared that the public will agree with there policies tell me about the great depth of the big two parties you cant because they have none the only thing the big two have done is left us in BIG DEBT nigel farage would sort this problem out believe me he is far more intelligent than the media shows him to be I live opposite a polling station and will fly the ukip flag big and proud come on ukip |
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Whatever happened to democracy? It was interesting to hear these two marginalised party leaders speaking up ( or not in Cleggs case ) for their stance on Europe. Whilst I don't agree with Farage on a lot of his views, he does raise some serious questions, clearly shared by a good number of licence fee paying citizens. The fact that we are sharing this on a forum shows that he is being talked about, what he hoped for. When the two realistic choices are either tory or labour at the next election, we should perhaps be more concerned with our lack of choice, where governments are afraid to do the right thing by the electorate, making decisions that are not always in the best interest of the country. Farage, may talk mostly utter tripe, but at least he stands by his convictions. I simply struggle to understand what our mainstream politicians stand for these days. #apolitical  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You're right Fabio.
Farage is just an opportunist who has seen potential for his ego to be licked, on the back of discontent and trying to appeal to voters who don't think very deeply, nor who try to understand much about economics, or scrutinise party manifestos.
They're a party of hot air, leeching like parasites off EU money, as hypocrites, and having no great depth.
They should not be given TV coverage that is way over their competitors levels, based on their UK MPs in our parliament. For months we've had them on Question Time etc, when other parties, with actual MPs have had little or no coverage. TV coverage bahahahahah this is rich coming from you of all people .they ukip get hardly any TV coverage simply because the big parties are scared that the public will agree with there policies tell me about the great depth of the big two parties you cant because they have none the only thing the big two have done is left us in BIG DEBT nigel farage would sort this problem out believe me he is far more intelligent than the media shows him to be I live opposite a polling station and will fly the ukip flag big and proud come on ukip "
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If we leave the EU, there will be mass unemployment when foreign firms who have set up here in the UK pull out. Do you think the likes of Nissan will stay in the UK when the back door into Europe closes?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If we leave the EU, there will be mass unemployment when foreign firms who have set up here in the UK pull out. Do you think the likes of Nissan will stay in the UK when the back door into Europe closes?
"
how will the door to europe close?
are we part of china, india or the US, yet we still trade with each of them.
i feel thats scaremongering |
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"If we leave the EU, there will be mass unemployment when foreign firms who have set up here in the UK pull out. Do you think the likes of Nissan will stay in the UK when the back door into Europe closes?
how will the door to europe close?
are we part of china, india or the US, yet we still trade with each of them.
i feel thats scaremongering"
Of course it is scaremongering. Does anyone think that Mercedes, BMW, VW, or Audi would allow an automotive trade war with an independent Britain? Not to mention Puegeot, Citroen, and Renault, or even Seat and Skoda.
Of course they wont, it will be them clamouring to Britain for a deal, not the other way around. |
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The question really is about whether we as the British public should get a referendum on staying or leaving....or whether our politicians think that they are more worthy of determining our status than we are. It crosses the PR argument in a way, as it a yes or no vote. Perhaps if the government of the day(s) ( over the many years of us being in the EEC, then EU ) had been more forthright in making sure that the interests of the UK had been heard and acted upon ( like for example the French and Spanish ), the formation of a UKIP might not have happened. UKIP and understandably so raises the whole question of why so many people are unhappy with so much of our membership of the EU. The main parties and Cameron has recognised this by stating a referendum will happen on his next ticket, is doing so because of amongst others UKIP. Watch the other parties all follow suit, once they realise the swell of support and more importantly that it will secure voters for the election.....they'll do anything to get our votes. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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At the moment both the main parties are at a loss as to what they do about EU membership.
Both see it as a gravy train they can not afford to lose.
The blue side want every single aspect of the UK run for profit in the private sector.
The red brigade want power at any cost and care even less about the outfall.
The way I see things at this time is quiet simple.
Vote Blue and bugger anyone that can not afford to live,or vote Red and hope the state wins the Euro millions every week to fund it.
The Libs have proven beyond doubt that they will support anyone that lets them sit at the table and enjoy the good life.
The current situation means Farage can see the time is perfect, to create his own "seperatist" state and take those that have lost faith along with him.
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"The question really is about whether we as the British public should get a referendum on staying or leaving....or whether our politicians think that they are more worthy of determining our status than we are. It crosses the PR argument in a way, as it a yes or no vote. Perhaps if the government of the day(s) ( over the many years of us being in the EEC, then EU ) had been more forthright in making sure that the interests of the UK had been heard and acted upon ( like for example the French and Spanish ), the formation of a UKIP might not have happened. UKIP and understandably so raises the whole question of why so many people are unhappy with so much of our membership of the EU. The main parties and Cameron has recognised this by stating a referendum will happen on his next ticket, is doing so because of amongst others UKIP. Watch the other parties all follow suit, once they realise the swell of support and more importantly that it will secure voters for the election.....they'll do anything to get our votes. "
Trouble is no one believes what the main parties say anymore, especially on the subject of giving the british public a referendum on EU membership. Remember the Lib dem leaflet that was shown in the debates that Clegg and the Lib dems said they would give us a referendum back in 2008. I seem to recall Labour saying they would give a referendum on EU membership before a general election, if there were any big treaty changes, then once they got into power they went and signed us upto the Lisbon treaty anyway. What happened to the referendum then?
Cameron is saying he will give a referendum in 2017 but I feel really he is pro EU and wants us to stay in. He wants to negotiate a new deal for us in the EU, but I can't see the Germans or the French agreeing to what he wants, and even Clegg himself said in the debate " I see the EU in 10 years time being pretty much the same as it is today".
Well if that is the case the british public will vote to leave and UKIP will continue to gain more support and rightly so. The arrogance of the main parties who all think the british public are too stupid to have a vote on Europe is unbelievable, they clearly hold the mainstream anti EU opinion of the british public with contempt, look down their noses at us and think they are better than us. If we have a referendum and the british public vote to leave that is called democracy, british forces fought and died for our democracy in 2 world wars, but our democracy is being given away bit by bit daily to the EU by the political elite in Westminster. The public must decide themselves at the ballot box. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Why does so many people want a referendum on this whole eu business? It should be left to the subject matter experts to make decision, not a bunch of people who are clueless about it. And I include myself in that. Everyone will vote to leave eu because life isn't great at the moment not because they actually understand how things would change. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why does so many people want a referendum on this whole eu business? It should be left to the subject matter experts to make decision, not a bunch of people who are clueless about it. And I include myself in that. Everyone will vote to leave eu because life isn't great at the moment not because they actually understand how things would change. "
I don't think that the so-called experts have any more of an idea than we do. It is not dissimilar to the Scottish independence debate. Many in Scotland have expressed that they have not been given all the pros and cons ... But in reality it is just conjecture.
Would it not be nice to be given some personal responsibility for making an important choice? |
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"Why does so many people want a referendum on this whole eu business? It should be left to the subject matter experts to make decision, not a bunch of people who are clueless about it. And I include myself in that. Everyone will vote to leave eu because life isn't great at the moment not because they actually understand how things would change. "
It doesn't really matter who is "clueless" or not.
The main argument in favour of a referendum is that the British people have never been asked whether or not they want to give up sovereignty to a United States of Europe. The 1974 referendum was only about joining what was then known as the Common Market, which was not much more than a customs union. Since then it has morphed via the EEC into the EU. and has become almost a federal government. It must also be remembered that Britain joined a community of what then became nine countries, a far cry from the 28 we have now.
The only countries to get a referendum on what was then called the EU constitution were France, Holland, Spain, and Luxembourg. France and Holland both voted no which killed the constitution as all countries had to ratify it, and that is when the trickery started.
The whole thing was re packaged and stuck into the Lisbon treaty, which completely ignored the French and Dutch votes and no country was "given" a choice by referendum. Much to the dismay of Brussels Ireland had a clause in its constitution that insisted on a referendum and the EU had to, very reluctantly, agree. Then horror of horrors for the EU elite, the Irish voted no. Only after much arm twisting and millions of Euro's spent (illegally) promoting the yes vote, did Ireland finally by a very small majority say yes.
Britain and the rest of Europe should have had a referendum on the Lisbon treaty which was nothing more than a Brussels power grab, but fearing the result the EU denied us of it.
The EU is a cancerous, corrupt, criminal organisation.
It makes me laugh sometimes that the British media will go ballistic about a handful of UK politicians fiddling a few quids worth of expenses but largely ignore that the EU hasn't had its books audited properly for nearly two decades. Only in the last financial year 4 billion Euro's just disappeared into the ether, no-one knows where it went, and all Barroso could say was "it's only a small amount of the total budget" as if it didn't matter. A couple of years ago an EU report concluded that one Euro in every five given to Bulgaria finished in a Mafia pocket, and that is only the tip of the iceberg.
Britain needs to get out of the EU as soon as possible, and then hopefully other countries will do the same and bring the whole rotten edifice crashing down.
EU delende est. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Watched the beginning of round 1 & soon realised that 5 mins was more than enough time wasted on two professional bullshitters; boooooooorrrrrrrrrring!!!
IMO, UKIP are just trying to gain LIBDEM votes to form a coalition with Cameron C*#t & subsequently empower the Tories - who deep down, UKIP truly are in the first place! !! |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Watched the beginning of round 1 & soon realised that 5 mins was more than enough time wasted on two professional bullshitters; boooooooorrrrrrrrrring!!!
IMO, UKIP are just trying to gain LIBDEM votes to form a coalition with Cameron C*#t & subsequently empower the Tories - who deep down, UKIP truly are in the first place! !!"
Hasn't Farage promised he'll only deal with the Tories if they dump Cameron?
Another night of the long knives? |
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"Watched the beginning of round 1 & soon realised that 5 mins was more than enough time wasted on two professional bullshitters; boooooooorrrrrrrrrring!!!
IMO, UKIP are just trying to gain LIBDEM votes to form a coalition with Cameron C*#t & subsequently empower the Tories - who deep down, UKIP truly are in the first place! !!
Hasn't Farage promised he'll only deal with the Tories if they dump Cameron?
Another night of the long knives?"
Yes hopefully. If they ditched Cameron and put Davis in the job they could even tempt be back into the fold. |
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