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Baggage
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"My prejudice goes to those that constantly moan (whether swinging or vanilla world) about how bad their life is how noone suffers as bad as they do ect. The people i know that do have major issues they have to deal with on a day to day level are the ones that dont complain. " Can see where you are coming from - and I wonder what that might be about. Why do you think some people go through life believing that they carry a big Victim sign on their foreheads? I am really curious because I think it has something to do with the way they experienced life as children, messages and scripts they grew up with? What do others think? | |||
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"My simple answer is, you make a choice of what you want to be, victim or survivor. Nothing to do with childhood otherswise there would be a lot more walking round with victim on their head" I agree with you totally that it is a choice we make, but sadly this only works if the person affected is aware of that. If somebody genuinely believes they are a victim and that society/ people "owe" them then they would simply not be able to make that choice, as they would not have that option. Hence awareness of what you are, where you came from and what has formed you... that combination of life experience empowers people to be in control and make choices rather than feeling they are victims  | |||
"Nothing to do with childhood " Depending what issues a child experiences, some issues can fvck a child up for many, many years through their adult life, for example, a child who has suffered years of sexual abuse just doesn't turn a page when they reach 18. | |||
"My prejudice goes to those that constantly moan (whether swinging or vanilla world) about how bad their life is how noone suffers as bad as they do ect. The people i know that do have major issues they have to deal with on a day to day level are the ones that dont complain. Can see where you are coming from - and I wonder what that might be about. Why do you think some people go through life believing that they carry a big Victim sign on their foreheads? I am really curious because I think it has something to do with the way they experienced life as children, messages and scripts they grew up with? What do others think? " Being brought up the same way as other siblings in the same house, I would say that was rubbish. We don't all have the same outlook in life. | |||
"My prejudice goes to those that constantly moan (whether swinging or vanilla world) about how bad their life is how noone suffers as bad as they do ect. The people i know that do have major issues they have to deal with on a day to day level are the ones that dont complain. Can see where you are coming from - and I wonder what that might be about. Why do you think some people go through life believing that they carry a big Victim sign on their foreheads? I am really curious because I think it has something to do with the way they experienced life as children, messages and scripts they grew up with? What do others think? Being brought up the same way as other siblings in the same house, I would say that was rubbish. We don't all have the same outlook in life. " You may have had identical upbringing and same love from both parents and yet you had experience outside the home that were different. Also, I was not suggesting that ALL is down to that - it is just one of several character forming experiences. | |||
"I think it has something to do with the way they experienced life as children, messages and scripts they grew up with?" Siblings from one family can all have individual issues as they mature, especially if they never experienced a families security / foundations early on in life. | |||
"I think it has something to do with the way they experienced life as children, messages and scripts they grew up with? Siblings from one family can all have individual issues as they mature, especially if they never experienced a families security / foundations early on in life. " Indeed - for example there is ample research focussing on whether you were the first born (and told to be sensible and be an example for your younger siblings), or the youngest (the one everybody cuddled and loved and did things for) or the middle one (the peacemaker etc) .. again another important part in making you what you are. | |||
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"We are who we are. We accept what we have, though we strive for better. We take people for what they are, and treat them how they treat us..." That is a great stance and one I adopt, too. | |||
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"We are who we are" Some people are so fvcked up they really don't know who they are, for some it can take many, many years of counselling to establish some security / independence in their life  | |||
"I think it has something to do with the way they experienced life as children, messages and scripts they grew up with? Siblings from one family can all have individual issues as they mature, especially if they never experienced a families security / foundations early on in life. Indeed - for example there is ample research focussing on whether you were the first born (and told to be sensible and be an example for your younger siblings), or the youngest (the one everybody cuddled and loved and did things for) or the middle one (the peacemaker etc) .. again another important part in making you what you are. " All this analyzing everything does my head in. There are always people about who will find "reasons/excuses" why people do certain things, maybe it is just the person themselves. | |||
"We are who we are Some people are so fvcked up they really don't know who they are, for some it can take many, many years of counselling to establish some security / independence in their life "That was what I meant about having the choice. If you are not aware that you have the choice of being a victim or a survivor (very simplified) then you will not remain unhappy and continue to blame others in situations where you actually have the power to change things. | |||
"I think it has something to do with the way they experienced life as children, messages and scripts they grew up with? Siblings from one family can all have individual issues as they mature, especially if they never experienced a families security / foundations early on in life. Indeed - for example there is ample research focussing on whether you were the first born (and told to be sensible and be an example for your younger siblings), or the youngest (the one everybody cuddled and loved and did things for) or the middle one (the peacemaker etc) .. again another important part in making you what you are. All this analyzing everything does my head in. There are always people about who will find "reasons/excuses" why people do certain things, maybe it is just the person themselves." I was not analysing anybody - I was asking what other people thought. Neither was I making excuses - I was offering one, and only one of several possible explanations. | |||
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"Did I say you? " No, you did not specifically - I just wanted to make sure that what I had said before was understood in the spirit and intention I had meant it. | |||
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"I will rehprase IN GENERAL LIFE with so called "experts" this analyzing everything does my head in. There are always people about who will find "reasons/excuses" why people do certain things, maybe it is just the person themselves." Sorry posts crossed 
I agree - and it does my head into when some people make excuses for anything and everything | |||
"Did I say you? No, you did not specifically - I just wanted to make sure that what I had said before was understood in the spirit and intention I had meant it. "So what is the intention? just so we all know? | |||
"We are who we are Some people are so fvcked up they really don't know who they are, for some it can take many, many years of counselling to establish some security / independence in their life
That was what I meant about having the choice. If you are not aware that you have the choice of being a victim or a survivor (very simplified) then you will not remain unhappy and continue to blame others in situations where you actually have the power to change things."Some people just need security / guidance to assist them, the difficulty is breaking down any walls they've built around them | |||
"Did I say you? No, you did not specifically - I just wanted to make sure that what I had said before was understood in the spirit and intention I had meant it.
So what is the intention? just so we all know? "Intention was to ask what made people tick really - if anybody was aware of why some things pushed buttons with them, made them cross and if they knew whether there was a reason for that, that was all. | |||
"Nothing to do with childhood Depending what issues a child experiences, some issues can fvck a child up for many, many years through their adult life, for example, a child who has suffered years of sexual abuse just doesn't turn a page when they reach 18." Sorry hun I have to disagree there. I know someone who was abused as a child they do not use it as an excuse for anything they get on with life. This person does not have any real issues (I do know her very very well)she has a great relationship with her husband and her kids. She has had no counceling but still managed to put what happened behind her. I also know someone who wasnt abused, in fact had what to many was an idealic childhood, but they use every excuse in the book so they dont have to take responsability (yup I took all my pain killers and cant see the keys tonight but you know what I mean) for their life. I have loads wrong with me (medically) I had a really crap childhood, life crapped on me then I was born but I carry on I make the best of what I can do and what I want for the rest of my life regardless of my limitations. I could tell you things about my upbringing that would make your hair curl and fall out, but I have NEVER used any of it as an excuse for being a teenaged single mother. I never did drugs even tho I was brought up in horrible council estates. I have never been in any trouble with the law. In fact I am the only person in my family to have done most of what I want with my life. The only thing stopping me is ME and my medical problems not my childhood and I would NEVER say what I went thru as a child would make someone do things like we see all the time in the news. I know I sound like Im having a rant but I cant stand people refusing to accept that only they can change something they dont like. I refuse to believe that once you know right from wrong that you can still say "not my fault it was how I was dragged up" Shona x x x | |||
" I refuse to believe that once you know right from wrong that you can still say "not my fault it was how I was dragged up" Shona x x x " Thanks, Shona, you echoed one of the things what I was trying to say - that people have choices in life once they are aware what is right, what is wrong. | |||
"Sorry hun I have to disagree there. I know someone who was abused as a child they do not use it as an excuse for anything they get on with life. " No worries Shona, we can all disagree, it's only a debate however, without going into details on a public forum, all I'll say is, I've many, many years experience working with those who've been abused through their childhood, I'm only stating my observations, no one in my experience asked to be labelled, and yes, some who have been abused go on to lead a perfectly normal life, it's worth bearing in mind tho, other don't | |||
"My prejudice goes to those that constantly moan (whether swinging or vanilla world) about how bad their life is how noone suffers as bad as they do ect. The people i know that do have major issues they have to deal with on a day to day level are the ones that dont complain. " You know my mother in law don't you? lol You know,she's always moaning no one's as ill as me!! | |||
"Nothing to do with childhood Depending what issues a child experiences, some issues can fvck a child up for many, many years through their adult life, for example, a child who has suffered years of sexual abuse just doesn't turn a page when they reach 18. Sorry hun I have to disagree there. I know someone who was abused as a child they do not use it as an excuse for anything they get on with life. This person does not have any real issues (I do know her very very well)she has a great relationship with her husband and her kids. She has had no counceling but still managed to put what happened behind her. I also know someone who wasnt abused, in fact had what to many was an idealic childhood, but they use every excuse in the book so they dont have to take responsability (yup I took all my pain killers and cant see the keys tonight but you know what I mean) for their life. I have loads wrong with me (medically) I had a really crap childhood, life crapped on me then I was born but I carry on I make the best of what I can do and what I want for the rest of my life regardless of my limitations. I could tell you things about my upbringing that would make your hair curl and fall out, but I have NEVER used any of it as an excuse for being a teenaged single mother. I never did drugs even tho I was brought up in horrible council estates. I have never been in any trouble with the law. In fact I am the only person in my family to have done most of what I want with my life. The only thing stopping me is ME and my medical problems not my childhood and I would NEVER say what I went thru as a child would make someone do things like we see all the time in the news. I know I sound like Im having a rant but I cant stand people refusing to accept that only they can change something they dont like. I refuse to believe that once you know right from wrong that you can still say "not my fault it was how I was dragged up" Shona x x x " Totally agree with you Shona, too many people have jumped on the band wagon using I had a bad childhood, or it's because of this. Some do genuinley suffer with things from the past, others use it as an excuse. We will do all we can for the genuine ones. I have a life limiting illness, and this is the first time i've ever mentioned it on here. Many people we know ask me how can you be so happy? My reply,if not i'd cry and I want enjoy what time I have left. I could probably get away with murder if I used my illness as an excuse lol N x | |||
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"i feel the way people are as a adult is because of a mix of nature nurture. you can have 2 children fetched up in the same way in the same family but they turn out to be completely different in some ways and simular in some ways because they are fetch the same but they have different personalities. ok i know what i mean to say lol " I know what you mean too! Clear as a bell.
There are outside influences too. So even if children are twins and reared in the same way their 'in-battles' and their peer groups and wider experiences come into play.
For me .... fuck all matters except how they perceive themselves. That's the basis of all behaviours and success'. Don't give me the low self esteem cliche. There are incredibly hubristic personalities that move swiftly up the social and politically powerful ladders and are viewed as perfectly capable and balanced by most.
I was glad of this post because of the one that asked about 'baggage' on another thread. The word goes right through me. As i've said here before. If you don't have baggage you haven't lived. Vive le baggarrrrrjjje ! | |||
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"Don’t waste your time on analysing everything - sometimes you’re ahead, sometimes you’re behind. The race of life is long, and in the end, it’s only with yourself. What ever happens in your life, don’t congratulate yourself too much or berate yourself too much either – your choices are half chance, so are everybody else’s. " A quote like that is only possible after an in depth analysis .  | |||
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"i feel the way people are as a adult is because of a mix of nature nurture. you can have 2 children fetched up in the same way in the same family but they turn out to be completely different in some ways and simular in some ways because they are fetch the same but they have different personalities. ok i know what i mean to say lol I know what you mean too! Clear as a bell.
There are outside influences too. So even if children are twins and reared in the same way their 'in-battles' and their peer groups and wider experiences come into play.
For me .... fuck all matters except how they perceive themselves. That's the basis of all behaviours and success'. Don't give me the low self esteem cliche. There are incredibly hubristic personalities that move swiftly up the social and politically powerful ladders and are viewed as perfectly capable and balanced by most.
I was glad of this post because of the one that asked about 'baggage' on another thread. The word goes right through me. As i've said here before. If you don't have baggage you haven't lived. Vive le baggarrrrrjjje !"Surely people however, are entitled to have low self esteem because of the baggage they have? You may see them and outwardly they appear to be full of it, inwardly, they feel that they lack in self esteem and when they have to do something that makes them centre of attraction, they may as i do, have a diabolical war going on in their head. | |||
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"Actually ive realised something now regarding my comment in my very long zzzz comment about the younger vs older. As i said, ive been ridiculed all my life so to have a relationship with someone half my age would encourage people to make fun of me, i cant allow that, ever." I think if people ridiculed you if you have someone half your age, they are only being jealous of you and yes self esteem is very important in anything you do but of course it comes with the experience in life! The reason I have been questioning the age group in my post "Is age just a number or is it not" is primarily for realistic reasons... one would wish to have a friend, a lover and a good father/mother to the children not to mention a life companion even when sex become less needed as the relationship gets older... in a few words... would the relationship survive when the younger person is still young and very sexually active while the other person is not? This is not a criticism but a practical issue! | |||
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"i feel the way people are as a adult is because of a mix of nature nurture. you can have 2 children fetched up in the same way in the same family but they turn out to be completely different in some ways and simular in some ways because they are fetch the same but they have different personalities. ok i know what i mean to say lol I know what you mean too! Clear as a bell.
There are outside influences too. So even if children are twins and reared in the same way their 'in-battles' and their peer groups and wider experiences come into play.
For me .... fuck all matters except how they perceive themselves. That's the basis of all behaviours and success'. Don't give me the low self esteem cliche. There are incredibly hubristic personalities that move swiftly up the social and politically powerful ladders and are viewed as perfectly capable and balanced by most.
I was glad of this post because of the one that asked about 'baggage' on another thread. The word goes right through me. As i've said here before. If you don't have baggage you haven't lived. Vive le baggarrrrrjjje !
Surely people however, are entitled to have low self esteem because of the baggage they have? You may see them and outwardly they appear to be full of it, inwardly, they feel that they lack in self esteem and when they have to do something that makes them centre of attraction, they may as i do, have a diabolical war going on in their head."I wouldn't call Low Self Esteem an entitlement but I get the gist of what you mean. To be fair to me I didn't say people weren't allowed to have low self esteem. I said it was a cliche and that challenging life experiences can result in over confidence and meglomania etc etc etc ..... | |||
"I have someone to carry my baggage "your bags are very small as compared to some!!!
No worries dear - i'll carry ya hand bag anytime | |||
"I have someone to carry my baggage "Yeah ? Well I have someone to carry the person that carries my baggage !  | |||
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"I have someone to carry my baggage
Yeah ? Well I have someone to carry the person that carries my baggage ! "Now Granny you are just showing off!!! LOL | |||
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"I think people who use an abused childhood as an excuse for everything and anything would be just the same without the abused childhood, they would just find a different set of excuses, I think its just a ‘character type’, some are lazy, some are doers, some are just talkers, some selfish, some generous etc. etc. For what its worth I had an abusive childhood, physical violence and mental degradation. It taught me how NOT to parent. As a teenager I hung around with some seriously unsavoury ‘friends’ they taught me how NOT to behave to get on in life. I don’t think it matters what difficulties, challenges, good start, bad start, it all provides a seat of learning if the individual chooses to see it that way. I reason that my parents were being the best parents they could be based on their life experience, that way I don’t feel bitter and twisted about it, although I wouldn’t ‘thank them’ for their efforts either. Now this might be going off topic but still relevant to the discussion perhaps… Helen experienced a very similar childhood to mine. However, she was also the subject/victim of a paedophile between the ages of 9 to 11 years old. Adult society labels such people as child abusers and everything they do is dirty, disgusting, filthy and abusive. Helen as a child with a innocent mind was not actually abused by the predator, he was very kind and gentle, he never hurt her physically and always made her feel valued and special, everything she wanted/needed but didn’t get from her mother! The child being totally innocent actually ENJOYED her time with the child predator WHILE she was a CHILD. Its not until the child becomes adult and fully self aware that the problems really start because of society and its labels, this is when the rot sets in. The adult starts to loath itself, ‘what sort of perverted piece of rubbish of a person must I be to have enjoyed what happened to me as a child? These things that society says are disgusting, perverted, filthy and dirty!’ Helen as a young adult learned to despise her mother because of the violence and mental abuse but also reasoned that the sexual abuse may not of happened if it hadn’t also provided a sanctuary from her mother. Helen carried this emotional burden and self-loathing until she met me, but prior to she just tried to keep it buried and did not consciously allow it to effect her life… but it did and it does!!! We’ve worked it all through and now Helen is at piece with herself now realising that the child was indeed totally innocent and was not wrong in the innocent state to have enjoyed the sexual child abuse AT THE TIME. She also reasons that her mother had her own problems at the time and so wasn’t doing her wrong WITH INTENT. Helen’s child abuse issue have been put to rest and she now has a good relationship with her mother. We could both be bitter and twisted about our childhood ‘baggage’ or we could do as we have, turn it into a tool of understanding that we use to help ourselves and others whenever we can. I’ve just read this to Helen prior to posting and she said, “You cannot change the past, so what’s the point of letting it change you unless its for the better”. Personal choice, your life is what you make it. Be lucky, Dave (& Helen)" You dont know me yet you think you are entitled to judge me???? Not much else i can say to that really is there other than, i have got on with my life, i just think it would have been and could have been so much better than it has. And i am entitled to despise both my parents, thats my right. | |||
" You dont know me yet you think you are entitled to judge me???? Not much else i can say to that really is there other than, i have got on with my life, i just think it would have been and could have been so much better than it has. And i am entitled to despise both my parents, thats my right." I’m sorry you seem to have taken offence to my post but it absolutely was not directed at YOU personally, if it was I would have sent it to YOU personally. It was written to all and anyone one reading this thread and was intended simply as voicing our experience such that it might be of some use or comfort to others. I made NO judgement of YOU personally however YOU have made one about me in apparently thinking I would take a pop at YOU in such an underhanded way! Now that is an insult to my character! Despise whoever you wish to, me included if you want, if it makes you feel any better, it’s non of my business. And you are right, I don’t know you, so why on Earth would you presume that I might have thought I did? Dave | |||
" You dont know me yet you think you are entitled to judge me???? Not much else i can say to that really is there other than, i have got on with my life, i just think it would have been and could have been so much better than it has. And i am entitled to despise both my parents, thats my right. I’m sorry you seem to have taken offence to my post but it absolutely was not directed at YOU personally, if it was I would have sent it to YOU personally. It was written to all and anyone one reading this thread and was intended simply as voicing our experience such that it might be of some use or comfort to others. I made NO judgement of YOU personally however YOU have made one about me in apparently thinking I would take a pop at YOU in such an underhanded way! Now that is an insult to my character! Despise whoever you wish to, me included if you want, if it makes you feel any better, it’s non of my business. And you are right, I don’t know you, so why on Earth would you presume that I might have thought I did? Dave " Because you have said: "I think people who use an abused childhood as an excuse for everything and anything would be just the same without the abused childhood, they would just find a different set of excuses, I think its just a ‘character type’, some are lazy, some are doers, some are just talkers, some selfish, some generous etc. etc." Its of no comfort at all and i cannot see why it would be! Everyone is different and everyone is entitled to their own opinion and no i wouldnt dream of despising you, i dont know you. I read it how it is that i just use it as an excuse, and i feel belittled and worthless nothing ive not felt all my life. And i dont use it as an excuse for everything and anything only some of it, those things i am able to see are affected vs those things that are not affected. And i choose to stand up for all those like me even if it didnt come across like that, for that i apologise. | |||
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"I have someone to carry my baggage
Yeah ? Well I have someone to carry the person that carries my baggage !
Now Granny you are just showing off!!!
LOL
"Oi ... your bazookas are pointing 360 degrees ! and I'M showing off... my baggage carrier told me he couldn't lift those !! | |||
"everyone deals with things different, there are no two people who experience the same things ever deal with them the same. everythin we experience shapes us in some way and someone else may react different to the way we do. big hugs to you grey for standing up and sayin what you feel xx" Thank you very much. You know the best way to understand that is a queue of people at the bus stop, the first person has been shown pictures from a girly magazine, you go along the queue to the the last person with the abuse getting worse, till you get to them and they have suffered the most vilest things imaginable. Each person will react differently, the first person may laugh off the pictures or be so traumatised that they need counselling, each person along the queue would be the same because each person is different as you have said. And thank you again | |||
"i dont use it as an excuse for everything and anything only some of it" I mentioned it earlier in this thread, and will mention it again, some who have been psychologically scarred during their childhood do have difficulties putting history behind them, again for some, the issues have been so traumatic it's nigh on impossible for them to move on regardless of their age, they deal with life on a daily basis, some become programmed resulting in OCD, some become frightened to face daily challenges, frightened to change their daily routine, each person is an individual which is why some can move on and explains why other's can't. For those who are able to move on, having a supportive partner / friends / support from professionals is half the battle, some don't have that backup which again explains why they have difficulty moving on, I wouldn't disclose any confidentially suffice to say, no one knows the impact a disruptive upbringing has on anyone, only the individual knows. | |||
I also think that considering how close to the bone some of this stuff is - it is so lovely to see that nobody has posted negative things. xxxx
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" Because you have said: "I think people who use an abused childhood as an excuse for everything and anything would be just the same without the abused childhood, they would just find a different set of excuses, I think its just a ‘character type’, some are lazy, some are doers, some are just talkers, some selfish, some generous etc. etc." Its of no comfort at all and i cannot see why it would be! Everyone is different and everyone is entitled to their own opinion and no i wouldnt dream of despising you, i dont know you. I read it how it is that i just use it as an excuse, and i feel belittled and worthless nothing ive not felt all my life. And i dont use it as an excuse for everything and anything only some of it, those things i am able to see are affected vs those things that are not affected. And i choose to stand up for all those like me even if it didnt come across like that, for that i apologise." Well in that case we are both on the same side standing up for the same thing even if we do seem to be talking at cross-purposes. I still maintain that I wasn’t taking a pop at you personally, as you said ‘it’s a matter of opinion’. You it seems have your way of managing things and I have mine. You have your way of approaching things, I have mine. My opening paragraph that you quote I said, “I think people use an abused childhood as an excuse for everything and anything…” Well that’s NOT you is it? You say yourself that it only effects PART of your life, or words to that effect. I certainly fully understand the feeling worthless and belittled and even now it’s a constant battle to keep a handle on it and that is NOT something that I would EVER wish to impose on someone else, but it happens for time to time albeit unintentional. With your inadvertent reaction to my post for example I could have responded with even more anger, upset, negative emotions BUT I didn’t. I just read it and thought to myself… ‘I know for a fact I had no intention of directing anything derogative to anyone. Therefore maybe I could have chosen better/different words or better/different phraseology but it is what it is and I cannot change it’. BUT it still remains true that I had NO malicious intent. So, instead of assume malicious intent on your part I assumed ‘misunderstanding’, hence you got a polite and apologetic response. Now I can’t offer you anything other than that, if I could I would, I can only apologise on the basis I had no intention of upsetting anyone, it’s not in my nature period! However, my opinions remain the same, they fit some and not others, if they don’t fit you then there is no need to presume that I assume they do… shakes hands? Kiss and make up? Dave | |||
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"I think it has something to do with the way they experienced life as children, messages and scripts they grew up with? Siblings from one family can all have individual issues as they mature, especially if they never experienced a families security / foundations early on in life. Indeed - for example there is ample research focussing on whether you were the first born (and told to be sensible and be an example for your younger siblings), or the youngest (the one everybody cuddled and loved and did things for) or the middle one (the peacemaker etc) .. again another important part in making you what you are. " But I was the middle and only girl of a a totally split family; sometimes I think my brothers are the only people in the world who can possibly know me, then remember that I didn't live with them for most of my life. We had the same parents (and step parents) but rarely the same home at the same time! That's why I chose to remain single after divorcing, having been a step-child and a step-mother, my kids would have me all to themselves. That's what my background made me, a better mum, not a better person, I did that in spite of background! But there comes a time when it's my time, and I just hit it! 5 years of no sex, now getting a sex life and you know what? Kids don't even ask where I'm going!  | |||
"I think it has something to do with the way they experienced life as children, messages and scripts they grew up with? Siblings from one family can all have individual issues as they mature, especially if they never experienced a families security / foundations early on in life. Indeed - for example there is ample research focussing on whether you were the first born (and told to be sensible and be an example for your younger siblings), or the youngest (the one everybody cuddled and loved and did things for) or the middle one (the peacemaker etc) .. again another important part in making you what you are. But I was the middle and only girl of a a totally split family; sometimes I think my brothers are the only people in the world who can possibly know me, then remember that I didn't live with them for most of my life. We had the same parents (and step parents) but rarely the same home at the same time! That's why I chose to remain single after divorcing, having been a step-child and a step-mother, my kids would have me all to themselves. That's what my background made me, a better mum, not a better person, I did that in spite of background! But there comes a time when it's my time, and I just hit it! 5 years of no sex, now getting a sex life and you know what? Kids don't even ask where I'm going! "Brilliant - so glad you are looking out for number one. I do believe that it is vital you make sure you are ok and have your needs met, the people around you including family will be happier as you are giving nice chilled vibes. IMHO What I meant by referring to position within family does not apply strictly to everybody - most of what I suggest is kind of meant to be taken with a pinch of salt and really designed to get people to respond - whcih makes me happy , lol. I don't believe in over-analysing either tbh - I just love a healthy discussion and sometimes play agent provocateur. | |||
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""everyone deals with things different, there are no two people who experience the same things ever deal with them the same. everythin we experience shapes us in some way and someone else may react different to the way we do. big hugs to you grey for standing up and sayin what you feel xx" Thank you very much. this is so true...both me and my sister were sexually abused as children...i became very into myself, hated myself, was very quiet, didnt know how to communicate with boys, self harmed the lot till i met P...now i live with my lovely fiance P and my gorgeous 2yr old little boy, i left school went to college got my qualification and now work...my sister on the other hand went off the rails...at the age of 13 she was smokin drinking takin drugs constantly sleeping with different ppl stealing sneaking out ect ect...she now lives with her bf and she now has a child...where as i have qualifications and a job she doesnt...she stays at home all day with no qualifications life is only wat u make it...i didnt get to where i am 2day moping around feeling sorry for myself i did something about my life and now live a happy life i work my ass off 4 it but i do it to make a better life for myself and my family so makes it all worth while K x " big hugs to you. it takes a lot to tell your story, and gives hope to other people that you have managed to deal with what happened and coped so well xx | |||
" Because you have said: "I think people who use an abused childhood as an excuse for everything and anything would be just the same without the abused childhood, they would just find a different set of excuses, I think its just a ‘character type’, some are lazy, some are doers, some are just talkers, some selfish, some generous etc. etc." Its of no comfort at all and i cannot see why it would be! Everyone is different and everyone is entitled to their own opinion and no i wouldnt dream of despising you, i dont know you. I read it how it is that i just use it as an excuse, and i feel belittled and worthless nothing ive not felt all my life. And i dont use it as an excuse for everything and anything only some of it, those things i am able to see are affected vs those things that are not affected. And i choose to stand up for all those like me even if it didnt come across like that, for that i apologise. Well in that case we are both on the same side standing up for the same thing even if we do seem to be talking at cross-purposes. I still maintain that I wasn’t taking a pop at you personally, as you said ‘it’s a matter of opinion’. You it seems have your way of managing things and I have mine. You have your way of approaching things, I have mine. My opening paragraph that you quote I said, “I think people use an abused childhood as an excuse for everything and anything…” Well that’s NOT you is it? You say yourself that it only effects PART of your life, or words to that effect. I certainly fully understand the feeling worthless and belittled and even now it’s a constant battle to keep a handle on it and that is NOT something that I would EVER wish to impose on someone else, but it happens for time to time albeit unintentional. With your inadvertent reaction to my post for example I could have responded with even more anger, upset, negative emotions BUT I didn’t. I just read it and thought to myself… ‘I know for a fact I had no intention of directing anything derogative to anyone. Therefore maybe I could have chosen better/different words or better/different phraseology but it is what it is and I cannot change it’. BUT it still remains true that I had NO malicious intent. So, instead of assume malicious intent on your part I assumed ‘misunderstanding’, hence you got a polite and apologetic response. Now I can’t offer you anything other than that, if I could I would, I can only apologise on the basis I had no intention of upsetting anyone, it’s not in my nature period! However, my opinions remain the same, they fit some and not others, if they don’t fit you then there is no need to presume that I assume they do… shakes hands? Kiss and make up? Dave" For starters, the only part of me, means that which was sorted through counselling, had this been before then, it would have been all of me. Theres also the issue that ive no-one to discuss the past now, im trying to sort it by myself and thats bloody hard work, plus ive no interest in going in deeper than i already have. The inadvert comment, hurt and opened wounds im trying to close and i work hard not to plunge into depths of depression. Yes kiss and make up and i promise i wont do it again | |||
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"i feel the way people are as a adult is because of a mix of nature nurture. you can have 2 children fetched up in the same way in the same family but they turn out to be completely different in some ways and simular in some ways because they are fetch the same but they have different personalities. ok i know what i mean to say lol I know what you mean too! Clear as a bell.
There are outside influences too. So even if children are twins and reared in the same way their 'in-battles' and their peer groups and wider experiences come into play.
For me .... fuck all matters except how they perceive themselves. That's the basis of all behaviours and success'. Don't give me the low self esteem cliche. There are incredibly hubristic personalities that move swiftly up the social and politically powerful ladders and are viewed as perfectly capable and balanced by most.
I was glad of this post because of the one that asked about 'baggage' on another thread. The word goes right through me. As i've said here before. If you don't have baggage you haven't lived. Vive le baggarrrrrjjje !
Surely people however, are entitled to have low self esteem because of the baggage they have? You may see them and outwardly they appear to be full of it, inwardly, they feel that they lack in self esteem and when they have to do something that makes them centre of attraction, they may as i do, have a diabolical war going on in their head."i totally agree and for some the war is never won or lost..it is .....just there. I feel fortunate i was raised in a loving nurturing environment and had no real trauma in my life, apart from caring for my terminally ill parents ,but we all have to face that at some point eh. | |||
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"I have someone to carry my baggage
Yeah ? Well I have someone to carry the person that carries my baggage !
Now Granny you are just showing off!!!
LOL
Oi ... your bazookas are pointing 360 degrees ! and I'M showing off... my baggage carrier told me he couldn't lift those !! "hehehe Get a new young fit one hun!!! Oh actually you already did if i remember rightly!!! Heeheee | |||
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"my only prejudice is against bullies,abusers and/or tormentors, be it of (especially) children adults or animals" yep ditto .... | |||
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"my only prejudice is against bullies,abusers and/or tormentors, be it of (especially) children adults or animals" Same here - I hate bullying with a passion and will always work towards stopping it by trying to get the bullies to see what they are doing to other people. I also know that many bullies are scared inside and invariably have been at the receiving end of bullying themselves. | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 04/05/10 21:55:21]" - sorry had spelling mistakes In a new relationship, or even a new friend with benefits, do people hide there baggage as they are afraid that it may push others away if they come out with it too soon? However if they wait too long, could that be considered that they have lied, and also break up the relationship? Finding that balance is an art in itself, and there isn't a simple solution, as different people react different ways, an example could be, a man likes the thought of being able to help a woman who is "scarred", however how would he feel that way if she was always thinking about a previous partner? | |||
"[Removed by poster at 04/05/10 21:55:21] - sorry had spelling mistakes In a new relationship, or even a new friend with benefits, do people hide there baggage as they are afraid that it may push others away if they come out with it too soon? However if they wait too long, could that be considered that they have lied, and also break up the relationship? Finding that balance is an art in itself, and there isn't a simple solution, as different people react different ways, an example could be, a man likes the thought of being able to help a woman who is "scarred", however how would he feel that way if she was always thinking about a previous partner?" i think that one of the problems is that we are not always aware of our baggage - and it tends to come up - pardon the pun - when we are not aware and somebody has just pushed the wrong button in us. Recipe ? Being honest, non-judgemental and open I think | |||
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"A few years back I had the opportunity to complete psychometric profiles for 3 sets of identical twins… resulting in 6 very individual profiles of greatly differing behavioural preferences. Our experience in life and of life will undoubtedly impact on us as human beings… how they impact on us and the degree with which they impact on us will depend on the set of personality traits we are programmed at birth to develop…. in other words, how our brain is wired to see the world. Introverts and extroverts, introspective and extrospectives (for example) will focus on different aspects of an event and thus see an event in a different way and have differing feelings about an event. These are not traits we choose (although we can learn to extend our thoughts) they are just our natural perspective. However, the pessimist and the optimist, my cup is half empty or half full can be habitual behaviour which has been learnt like a bad/good habit and we can choose to look at something with a more positive or negative slant than we first observed. Victims, however, more often initially blame themselves rather than other people and learning to blame others is often part of the process for letting go and rebuilding self belief that they were not born to be a victim for life. " Great post and I broadly agree with you. Another thing to consider in addition is the time of formation of synapses in the human brain . | |||
"A few years back I had the opportunity to complete psychometric profiles for 3 sets of identical twins… resulting in 6 very individual profiles of greatly differing behavioural preferences. Our experience in life and of life will undoubtedly impact on us as human beings… how they impact on us and the degree with which they impact on us will depend on the set of personality traits we are programmed at birth to develop…. in other words, how our brain is wired to see the world. Introverts and extroverts, introspective and extrospectives (for example) will focus on different aspects of an event and thus see an event in a different way and have differing feelings about an event. These are not traits we choose (although we can learn to extend our thoughts) they are just our natural perspective. However, the pessimist and the optimist, my cup is half empty or half full can be habitual behaviour which has been learnt like a bad/good habit and we can choose to look at something with a more positive or negative slant than we first observed. Victims, however, more often initially blame themselves rather than other people and learning to blame others is often part of the process for letting go and rebuilding self belief that they were not born to be a victim for life. Great post and I broadly agree with you. Another thing to consider in addition is the time of formation of synapses in the human brain ." I'm not quite sure where you are making the link between a genetic cellular process and how that impacts on behavioural preferences... other than male/female traits, which would not include introvert/extrovert type traits as they are not exclusive or even bias to one specific gender. | |||
"A few years back I had the opportunity to complete psychometric profiles for 3 sets of identical twins… resulting in 6 very individual profiles of greatly differing behavioural preferences. Our experience in life and of life will undoubtedly impact on us as human beings… how they impact on us and the degree with which they impact on us will depend on the set of personality traits we are programmed at birth to develop…. in other words, how our brain is wired to see the world. Introverts and extroverts, introspective and extrospectives (for example) will focus on different aspects of an event and thus see an event in a different way and have differing feelings about an event. These are not traits we choose (although we can learn to extend our thoughts) they are just our natural perspective. However, the pessimist and the optimist, my cup is half empty or half full can be habitual behaviour which has been learnt like a bad/good habit and we can choose to look at something with a more positive or negative slant than we first observed. Victims, however, more often initially blame themselves rather than other people and learning to blame others is often part of the process for letting go and rebuilding self belief that they were not born to be a victim for life. Great post and I broadly agree with you. Another thing to consider in addition is the time of formation of synapses in the human brain . I'm not quite sure where you are making the link between a genetic cellular process and how that impacts on behavioural preferences... other than male/female traits, which would not include introvert/extrovert type traits as they are not exclusive or even bias to one specific gender. " There is indeed a specific link between learned behaviours and synaptic development. In much the same way that we have a window of opportunity to learn languages/ musical instruments/motor skills such as skiing to name but a few - some not all behaviours are learned in similar ways, with corresponding windows of optimum opportunity. That is the connection to behaviours - whcih in turn is connected to the original post on baggage. Perhaps I should have explained it in detail. | |||
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"I can see the link to intellectual development/limitations, brain function (and brain function disorders) and even the emotional intelligence with which we express/demonstrate our behavioural preference type… but not to the preferences themselves. This is why I ask, as I am unaware of any conclusive link as to what makes one person lean more to one set of prefernce type than another." Can see where you are coming from and it is even more complex than that - the preferences themselves are developing and feeding from the feedback principle of a system, going back to and incorporating Bateson, Watson etc | |||
"I can see the link to intellectual development/limitations, brain function (and brain function disorders) and even the emotional intelligence with which we express/demonstrate our behavioural preference type… but not to the preferences themselves. This is why I ask, as I am unaware of any conclusive link as to what makes one person lean more to one set of prefernce type than another. Can see where you are coming from and it is even more complex than that - the preferences themselves are developing and feeding from the feedback principle of a system, going back to and incorporating Bateson, Watson etc" Wasn't Bateson genetic heredity? I would genuinely be interested in knowing who/what/where to find reference to the personality types I refer to being an genetic trait… as it does seem to conflict with even my own studies of identical twins. | |||
"I can see the link to intellectual development/limitations, brain function (and brain function disorders) and even the emotional intelligence with which we express/demonstrate our behavioural preference type… but not to the preferences themselves. This is why I ask, as I am unaware of any conclusive link as to what makes one person lean more to one set of prefernce type than another. Can see where you are coming from and it is even more complex than that - the preferences themselves are developing and feeding from the feedback principle of a system, going back to and incorporating Bateson, Watson etc Wasn't Bateson genetic heredity? I would genuinely be interested in knowing who/what/where to find reference to the personality types I refer to being an genetic trait… as it does seem to conflict with even my own studies of identical twins." Besides the above, Bateson etc and the origins of systems theory you could google Maturana et al as one lead into Behavioural Genetics - will dig up some more in the next few days. Off to my bed now as looking forward to my "positive feedback" matress
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"Google and Wiki are great for quick overviews but I prefer to use my own reference books where possible… it makes it easier to source the arguments presented by the critics of particular theories. Anyway, it gave me an interesting read on cognitive psychology and the theories of personality. I still am unable to find the conclusive link I enquired about and it would appear whilst we are on almost parallel tracks, they are different tracks; possibly as I was posting after reading comments later in the thread as the subject developed down it’s own path (particularly the bits about siblings growing up in the same environment) and would appear from your earlier comment your line of though is back with the underlying thoughts (or theories) on ‘baggage’ which prompted your opening post. With regards to the opening post and the question of prejudice… is it prejudice to dislike people who see swinging sites as a meat market or is it preference. If we assume every person of a certain age, gender or whatever sees it as a meat market, then I can see how that is pre-judging; or if we assume people who have such an opinion also share other undesirable characteristics which are unrelated to the expressed opinion. But is it prejudice to decide you dislike people with a particular opinion once they have expressed that opinion? I dislike liars but I wouldn’t call it a prejudice as I don’t assume all people or groups of people to be liars. I would only label an individual a liar after the label had been demonstrated as being accurate. The degree of dislike would then be proportionate to the degree of lying... may be the greater degrees of this are what you refer to as baggage. " I agree with you re Google (Wiki I never use anyway) - it was not meant as a serious source of reference but it does help when you want to find a particular research(er) quickly so that you can then explore in more depth, hence suggesting to google Maturana etc. I also agree that we may well be on a parallel reflection process here - and neither the forum nor this particular thread are suitable to explore and discuss this in depth IMHO. To clarify what I had intended with the OP : I was and still am curious about two things : For one I am interested in what pushes people's buttons - you said for you it is lies and you explained the proportion of lies to level of resulting antipathy - incidentally I also agree with you there as it is one of my buttons. I am interested what "annoys" people in others and if it is connected to other things. I know for example where my dislike for liars comes from - it is connected to other events. Now I am not asking for anybody's detailled navel gazing and self disclosures - again the forum and thread are not a suitable place for this. A simple "Pushy people wind me up and I know where that stems from" or "People who talk incessantly and I recognise why this gets to me" or "I dont trust people easily" was kind of what I had aimed this thread at. Perhaps it was open to interpretation as I was not clear enough - but hey - diversity of responses was really good fun and long may it continue. Thanks for your contributions - they are - as always thought provoking
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