FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Are you Red, Blue or Yellow Pt.III (Yup, Gordy's still in it, just!)

Are you Red, Blue or Yellow Pt.III (Yup, Gordy's still in it, just!)

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Should be an interesting day. The final leader's debate, I'm really looking forward to tonight as all three of them know that this is it, last chance to get the message over to as many as possible.

It's good to see that that Cousins Clegg & Cameron haven't slaughtered Gordy the Gaffe over yesterday's fiasco. It shows some decency and integrity and probably a huge 'there but for the grace of god go I' sense of relief. They probably all go to the same swingers club when they're not busy politicking anyway.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago
Forum Mod

Lets hope they go easy on the blusher this week

Im off out so ill miss it

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

looking forward to paxman getting his teeth into Gordo tomorrow too

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I notice Alex Salmond had a dig. Gives me the creeps he does, slimy fucker.

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By *exeteraWoman over a year ago

Bridgend

Nick the prick's turn for the foot in mouth trophy. Whilst speaking to students and discussing the vote he stated "If you can be asked by politicians to lay your life on the line for the country, then you should have a say in who runs the country. It is as simple as that." Silly boy, doesn't he know that they have to be 18 for active service.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I think what he meant to say was, "Can all you girls change into bikinis and all you boys join the army."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think what he meant to say was, "Can all you girls change into bikinis and all you boys join the army."

did you get that the right way round?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I think what he meant to say was, "Can all you girls change into bikinis and all you boys join the army."

did you get that the right way round?

Dunno. Ask me one on sport.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"snatching defeat from the jaws of victory."

That really is a great saying, it really encapsulates a right royal fuck up, doesn't it?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I notice Alex Salmond had a dig. Gives me the creeps he does, slimy fucker."

agree!! and his whingin about not gettin to be part of the debate is doin my nut in!!

his ego gettin in the way of what matters here and i think he has realised he is on the slidey to slope to the bru que!! there too much goin on elsewhere to have the worry of his silly independence referrendum that we cant afford!! xx

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

10 mins to go, time to pour a drink and settle down to watch the fight.

hope its a good one! LoL

enjoy everyone

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

first question in..... clegg actually mentions what he will cut, brown and cameron decide to duck the question....

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Labour's big guns are coming out to fight. Blair hits the campaign trail tomorrow. Watch the polls, Labour will climb with him batting for them.

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By *he Happy ManMan over a year ago

Merseyside

I left school in 1983 when thatcher was in power and there was no jobs. I really hope the conservatives don't get in power again.

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By *he Happy ManMan over a year ago

Merseyside

"Labour's big guns are coming out to fight. Blair hits the campaign trail tomorrow. Watch the polls, Labour will climb with him batting for them."

Doubtful really as most people (including labour voters) have a very negative view of Blair.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I left school in 1983 when thatcher was in power and there was no jobs. I really hope the conservatives don't get in power again. "

So much has changed since then, you're talking almost 20 years ago. The electorate are much more informed these days with the advent of the internet and so much more than the four channels on television we had back then.

The expenses scandal has rammed home the view that Joe Public won't stand for being conned anymore and today's politicians will be held to account for the promises they make today but break tomorrow.

Of the three main candidates for Prime Minister I can see no credible alternative to Brown than Cameron.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I have to say that I'm impressed with the 16-point contract that the Conservatives have just issued. I agree with every one of them but the very last one is exceptional...

"Create National Citizen Service for every 16 year old."

This is sorely needed to get them off of street corners and develop a real community spirit such as the one that used to exist when our parents were children.

If he does all the things he's promising this country will be great once more, if he doesn't I'll be the first to vote them out in 5 years time.

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By *UNCHBOXMan over a year ago

folkestone

"I left school in 1983 when thatcher was in power and there was no jobs. I really hope the conservatives don't get in power again.

The expenses scandal has rammed home the view that Joe Public won't stand for being conned anymore and today's politicians will be held to account for the promises they make today but break tomorrow.

Of the three main candidates for Prime Minister I can see no credible alternative to Brown than Cameron."

Ahh yes, but what about the things they don't say?. I wonder how long it will be before 'Dave' puts up VAT if he gets in just like Thatcher did when she got in(doubled it) and Major did in the 90's?.

Same old Conservatives if they do, as anyone who has even a small knowledge of economics knows this is a regressive tax, rather than a progressive tax like income tax or national insurance. In laymans terms, it hits the poorest hardest. But then again this is the party who plans to up the inheritance tax allowance for all their rich chums.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Again, where does this inheritance thing coming from... its rubbish, he plans to raise the threshold to £1m for everyone which means only the rich will pay it on estates over £1m. Onlt yeasterday he mentioned, no promised, that people who work hard all their lives to pay off their mortgage should be able to leave that to their children without the taxman getting any of it. He couldn't have been more clearer about it.

Labour scare tactics if you ask me and I can see why Cameron got so angry about it in the 2nd debate.

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By *aucy3Couple over a year ago

glasgow

"Again, where does this inheritance thing coming from... its rubbish, he plans to raise the threshold to £1m for everyone which means only the rich will pay it on estates over £1m. Onlt yeasterday he mentioned, no promised, that people who work hard all their lives to pay off their mortgage should be able to leave that to their children without the taxman getting any of it. He couldn't have been more clearer about it.

Labour scare tactics if you ask me and I can see why Cameron got so angry about it in the 2nd debate."

the taxman wont get it.but people who have worked all thier lives.will have to sell thier houses,to pay for thier care.does that sound fairer.every country pays tax.if they dont get it one way,they will get it another.at least under labour, those who make most,will pay most.if you want to live in a society,where people care about each other.not only themselves.cam the man,is not even an option.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

in 1979 economic growth stood at 2%, inflation was about 13.5%, unemployment 4% with total govt debt at around 44% gdp. The UK had gone cap in hand to the IMF and the poor quality and reputation of our goods was having a major impact on export. The manufacturing industry was reliant on the state, the unions were demanding ever increasing wages without any increase in output or any improvement in quality.

steel, coal, gas and electricity industries also relied on the state to bail them out.

Conservative govt decided there needed to be an end to this reliance,a nd that industry needed to live in the real world of business.

they oversaw cuts in income tax - the bands were reduced and the top rate cut from 83% to 40% whilst the lower band was also cut. To replace this, VAT was increased from 8% to 15% and then again to 17.5%. Targets were set for the growth in the money supply as attempts to cut inflation were strengthened

Over a number of years state owned industries were privatised, forcing them to be competitive.

By 1987ish, inflation was falling and stood at around 4%, down from 13.5%, unemployment was actually falling, though many don't want to believe this, national debt was down to about 27%gdp and the government was running with a budget surplus of several billion,

Not all of the tory economic policies were necessarily good and those that adhere to keynesian economic rather than macroeconomics will no doubt lay the blame for all the UK's woes on the previous tory administration

Thatcher said that running govt was like running a household. You couldn't spend money that you didn't have. The government stuck to this policy, made some hard choices and got the UK out of a hole.

No one wants to tell us now that the choices the govt now has to make because of the financial chaos at the end of this administration. They will need to be worse than anything thatcher ever did and whichever party forms next govt and makes these choices will be unlikely to be re elected for another generation. but they have to be made and I want some one to have the balls to stand up and tell us, the voters what they are really going to do

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I left school in 1983 when thatcher was in power and there was no jobs. I really hope the conservatives don't get in power again.

The expenses scandal has rammed home the view that Joe Public won't stand for being conned anymore and today's politicians will be held to account for the promises they make today but break tomorrow.

Of the three main candidates for Prime Minister I can see no credible alternative to Brown than Cameron.

Ahh yes, but what about the things they don't say?. I wonder how long it will be before 'Dave' puts up VAT if he gets in just like Thatcher did when she got in(doubled it) and Major did in the 90's?.

Well ive just watching the election show

The presenter asked David Miliband whether labour will put up vat

He would not answer

They have all got to do it not just the Tories

We need to sort out the mess that we are all in

And pardon me for pointing out the obvious but the mess lays squarely with Labour

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By *aucy3Couple over a year ago

glasgow

"I left school in 1983 when thatcher was in power and there was no jobs. I really hope the conservatives don't get in power again.

The expenses scandal has rammed home the view that Joe Public won't stand for being conned anymore and today's politicians will be held to account for the promises they make today but break tomorrow.

Of the three main candidates for Prime Minister I can see no credible alternative to Brown than Cameron.

Ahh yes, but what about the things they don't say?. I wonder how long it will be before 'Dave' puts up VAT if he gets in just like Thatcher did when she got in(doubled it) and Major did in the 90's?.

Well ive just watching the election show

The presenter asked David Miliband whether labour will put up vat

He would not answer

They have all got to do it not just the Tories

We need to sort out the mess that we are all in

And pardon me for pointing out the obvious but the mess lays squarely with Labour"

are you living in some kind of parallel universe.do the words,worldwide recesion mean nothing there.a universe where truth means nothing.are there a lot of guys there.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

England one of the first countries into recession

And one of the last out

I call that bad management and no i dont live in a parallel universe i live in the real world thank you

I would not be condescending to you and am entitled to expect the same from you

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago
Forum Mod

Now I thought the recession started in America im sure I saw a programme on Dr Phil about all these people living in their cars as they had lost their houses

I could and am most probably wrong though

I know Nuuufffffiiinnnn

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By *aucy3Couple over a year ago

glasgow

"England one of the first countries into recession

And one of the last out

I call that bad management and no i dont live in a parallel universe i live in the real world thank you

I would not be condescending to you and am entitled to expect the same from you"

sorry,your a bit touchy.how well we are coming out of recesion,depends on what paper you read.sorry again.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"England one of the first countries into recession

And one of the last out

I call that bad management and no i dont live in a parallel universe i live in the real world thank you

I would not be condescending to you and am entitled to expect the same from you

sorry,your a bit touchy.how well we are coming out of recesion,depends on what paper you read.sorry again.

I apologise for snapping i was merely pointing out to the poster that said the Tories are going to increase vat,that all the parties will have to take this route

There will be some bitter pills to swallow in the next few months /years xx

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"are you living in some kind of parallel universe.do the words,worldwide recesion mean nothing there.a universe where truth means nothing.are there a lot of guys there.

So typical of Labour supporters who's only mantra seems to be 'the rich have got it all, the bastards' instead of looking at what has really happened in this country over the past 30 years. Recession under a Labour govt in the 70's, growth under thatcher in the 80s/90s and now recession again under Labour... I see a pattern emerging here, its a pity Labour supporters cant be as objective and see the truth: Capitalism drives economies and Socialism drains them.

The rich are rich because they work hard (I'm not referring to the Upper Class who inherit), not everyone has the skills to be captains of industry and those people are the workforce. Thats the way of things and its always been so. Any attempt to make people truly equal is futile and condemned to failure as people aren't equal, they never have been and never will be.

THAT'S the stark truth of it.

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By *aucy3Couple over a year ago

glasgow

"are you living in some kind of parallel universe.do the words,worldwide recesion mean nothing there.a universe where truth means nothing.are there a lot of guys there.

THAT'S the stark truth of it."

at least your consistent siren.with that blinkered vision.intrest rates 14%inflation over 10% we all want that again.society may never be equaul.but a big part of being british.is society, is caring for people,less well of.vote conservitive,if you must.but dont kid on its for any other reason.than selfishness.thats conservitive.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Scroll up and read Stu's last post. He went to all that trouble after all, just so you could be more informed than you are at the moment.

Wishy.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"England one of the first countries into recession

And one of the last out"

Excuse me but there are aso Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland in this. Thatcher fooked those areas as they were highly unionised. As she did Labour. The start of deregulating the banking industry began then because as she dismantled our industries in the provinces she had to fortify the services in the cities. Ok, Brown was not helpful in this also, but for a completely different reason, he hoped that the Bank of England once given free rein would use that rein; it did not.

But if we still mined, still made steel, still built our own trains, planes and automobiles, we'd still be strong!

Do you really want to be governed by a load of brats who went to Eton, fees for which are higher than you are likely to earn in a year? Do they think they know the price of fish??!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

By using England instead of britain I made a mistake

However that is the only part of your post I am replying too

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Oh jeez, Labour are gonna lose, it's gonna go back to how it was in the 80s and 90s, how I fear for my kids!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Oh jeez, Labour are gonna lose, it's gonna go back to how it was in the 80s and 90s, how I fear for my kids! "

As I for my daughter if the reverse happens

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By *aucy3Couple over a year ago

glasgow

"Scroll up and read Stu's last post. He went to all that trouble after all, just so you could be more informed than you are at the moment.

Wishy."

wishy,i read stus comments. maggie thatcher was an evil need.today we have different needs.incomplete facts, are like statistics.you can make them say what you like.if greed drives you,if selfishness drives you,if lack of society drives you, if racism drives you.vote conservitive.ive got a funny feeling,your still voting coservitive.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago
Forum Mod

Why is it that people just can't accept that others are entitled to a different view to their own?

Mostly no-one will be move from those views so you end up going round in a circle and flogging a dead horse

Not aimed at anyone in particular but from reading my way through this thread

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well said hun xx

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By *aucy3Couple over a year ago

glasgow

"Why is it that people just can't accept that others are entitled to a different view to their own?

Mostly no-one will be move from those views so you end up going round in a circle and flogging a dead horse

Not aimed at anyone in particular but from reading my way through this thread"

would there be any point to forums in that case.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Scroll up and read Stu's last post. He went to all that trouble after all, just so you could be more informed than you are at the moment.

Wishy.

Racism is a strong word to label someone with. I object strongly to being called a racist and you should be ashamed of yourself for making such uneducated comments when you don't even know me.

If you want to believe in Labour's version of the truth then that's your prerogative but is there really any need to insult people who don't agree with your views?

A bit like Gordy the Gaffe calling someone a bigot just for questioning his policies on immigration, don't you think?

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By *aucy3Couple over a year ago

glasgow

"Scroll up and read Stu's last post. He went to all that trouble after all, just so you could be more informed than you are at the moment.

Wishy.

Racism is a strong word to label someone with. I object strongly to being called a racist and you should be ashamed of yourself for making such uneducated comments when you don't even know me.

If you want to believe in Labour's version of the truth then that's your prerogative but is there really any need to insult people who don't agree with your views?

A bit like Gordy the Gaffe calling someone a bigot just for questioning his policies on immigration, don't you think?

i know you well enough wishy,to know 1 weeks ago you were cosidering voting bnp.so i might call a spade ,a spade,but its usually a spade.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"i know you well enough wishy,to know 1 weeks ago you were cosidering voting bnp.so i might call a spade ,a spade,but its usually a spade."

Well that just proves you don't fully understand what you read. Show me where I said I was voting BNP? I said some of their policies made sense but that they have a sinister underlying policy of racism.

Sheesh!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Saucy, a spade is now an earth relocating implement, a mummy's boy spoilt tory Eton and Bullingdon little twat is now a potential Prime Minister and Chancellor! Let's get things right! God, at this point I'd love to laugh but it's really not funny is it!

In the last Tory recession - which only this country suffered and during which the Tory chancellor chose to draw us out of the ERM before they chucked us out, raise interest rates to 15% - try paying twice-plus your mortgage peeps! - I lived next door to a house that the Council leased for emergency homeless families. Those that had lost their homes included a probation officer, his wife and 3 kids, a guy who had bought into a removals firm with all its lorries and the housing market fell flat, his wife and their kids, I watched her weep every day. I kept in touch with them, would any of them see the Tories in again? That was just outside London, I did the whole leave your community to find a job, all that did was break more communities! x

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Saucy, a spade is now an earth relocating implement, a mummy's boy spoilt tory Eton and Bullingdon little twat is now a potential Prime Minister and Chancellor! Let's get things right! God, at this point I'd love to laugh but it's really not funny is it!

Thank God common sense is going to prevail on 6th May and this ludicrous excuse for a government will be swept away and cast into the political dustbin forever.

I truly believe that years from now this Labour government will be upheld in history lessons as a typical example of how NOT to run a country. They are the epitome of wrecklessness and waste.

Roll on Thursday so this country can start to become great again.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

And 13 years on ?

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By *aucy3Couple over a year ago

glasgow

a spade is an now an earth moving implement.when did that happen.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"By using England instead of britain I made a mistake

However that is the only part of your post I am replying too "

actually craig..... he made a fair point you didn't fancy/ want to answer..

in that for everything thatcher did for those people in the south east, she also basically killed off the uk manufacturing base... from the coal and steel industries, to the car building and basically turned into a service base...

and thats why you will never see a welsh conservative mp, or a scottish conservative mp anymore... and in a lot of the major cities why it is the lib dems that are the major competitor to labour when it days gone by it was the tories... in places like sheffield... liverpool... newcastle ect ect ect

do i fear a conservative administration under cameron... too right I do, knowing that I will probably get a pay freeze having had one for the last 2 years is galling when the people at the top are going to be getting tax cuts (something the tories don't deny either... especially when the impartial IFS reports say that.... there report says we best get ready for the biggest cuts in spending since world war 2......)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Saucy, it was about the time Nick Griffin forgot what he said about or why he denied that the holocaust happened (he "forgot" cos as he has to attend the European Parliament he may have to go to countries friendly to Germany where holocaust denial is a crime). Can't even remember why he said it, bless, I never took those sort of drugs and I thought I was liberated!

Or was it around the time some tory boy who only ever worked in PR so it's the only thing he's good at thought it would be japes to run for pm as we'd all got fooked off with any of the other ones that sold us out - and I mean SOLD! Tories presided over the selling of everything we owned and that worked! x

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

" Tories presided over the selling of everything we owned and that worked! x"

Ah yes, the billions of £ worth of gold bullion sold of at a time when the price of gold was at an all time low... Brown did that I believe..

And private pensions, what happened to there? ... Brown savaged them.

Who abolished the 10p rate of income tax?... yup, you guessed it... Brown again.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"By using England instead of britain I made a mistake

However that is the only part of your post I am replying too

actually craig..... he made a fair point you didn't fancy/ want to answer..

Fabio the reason i didn't answer his post other than what i said

Was because of the earlier posts between us and no other reason

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

get over it !27 years ago good old maggie What was the name of your council leader at the time dereck hatton? Total tosser in it for himself!

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"get over it !27 years ago good old maggie What was the name of your council leader at the time dereck hatton? Total tosser in it for himself!"

He was the Deputy Leader of LIVEROOL Council, and a member of the Labour Party.

I suggest you get your facts straight as you are only making yourself look more ignorant with each word you utter.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ok, new here so will someone tell me how I rehearse past post without copy/paste; but:-

"Luckily we don't shoot our prime ministers over here. Even if we don't like them."

See, now I'm disappointed at the thought we ever could and I missed it, cos jeez am I a crack shot with anything from a .177 to a 4:10!

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Click the 'Quote' link underneath the post you want to quote then type your post after the quote.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Ok, new here so will someone tell me how I rehearse past post without copy/paste; but:-

"Luckily we don't shoot our prime ministers over here. Even if we don't like them."

See, now I'm disappointed at the thought we ever could and I missed it, cos jeez am I a crack shot with anything from a .177 to a 4:10!

Just press the quote line at the bottom of the post ya want to quote

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Thank you babe, appreaciated. x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

not even the tossers

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

is that right wishy he was the mouth piece of liverpool council (deputy not far out)His catch phrase no alterntive and took liverpool for a ride in politics fr self enhancement and financial gain went on i believe to a public relations company (his own)not far off wishy .another labour ss "O"him not you, but if the dutch cap fits wear it1

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

So why say he was my local council leader... I'm in newcastle!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I did not say he was I have not poted a message to you other than the 1 just sent I sent a message to a guy from liverpool

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

lap top playin up tho maybe that is the problem . still want Brown & Blair shot tho. If that offends you or any1 else .I DON'T CARE

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I sometimes feel people harbouring this kind of hatred shouldn't be allowed to vote at all. How can someone use the ballot box as a genuine voice of protest when they would much prefer to use the bullet?

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"I sometimes feel people harbouring this kind of hatred shouldn't be allowed to vote at all. How can someone use the ballot box as a genuine voice of protest when they would much prefer to use the bullet? "

Violence is often the last resort of the mentally challenged

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

The real truth behind just why Cameron looked a little flushed around the face when he was challenged on Inheritance Tax on thursday night....

Those with estates worth around the £1m mark will see their heirs better off by around £190-£200k

But the real humdinger hides within the small printo of the Tory plan, those with Estates worth in excess of £9.7m will see heirs benefit by approx. £540k.

The approx cost of this 'giveaway' to the wealthy?....£1.25b in the first year alone.

Tory Party....By the Rich for the Rich

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Violence is often the last resort of the mentally challenged

hun xx

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"The real truth behind just why Cameron looked a little flushed around the face when he was challenged on Inheritance Tax on thursday night....

Those with estates worth around the £1m mark will see their heirs better off by around £190-£200k

But the real humdinger hides within the small printo of the Tory plan, those with Estates worth in excess of £9.7m will see heirs benefit by approx. £540k.

The approx cost of this 'giveaway' to the wealthy?....£1.25b in the first year alone.

Tory Party....By the Rich for the Rich"

It's not really a cost at all is it. Those rich enough to benefit by the odd £500k here or there aren't really going to worry too much about it and £1.5bn 'lost' to the Treasury is a drop in the ocean compared to how much is literally thrown away on a monthly basis.

I guess the proof can only come over time about where Cameron's loyalties lie but it's interesting that The Times have come out in favour of the Conservatives after 18 years of supporting Labour. I'm not saying that newspapers aren't partisan but the Times often says it like it regardless of where their political affiliations lie. Their article today makes interesting reading, it's objective and unbiased. They state what Labour has done for the good whilst in office and what they've done that's not so good, but they also say where they have reservations about the Tories even though they now support them.

The Guardian has also switched sides but they've gone back to their traditional roots of Liberalism. Both newspapers are respected around the world and if they see no future under Labour then, as you've said before regarding expert advice, perhaps it would be prudent to pay attention to them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago
Forum Mod

"Why is it that people just can't accept that others are entitled to a different view to their own?

Mostly no-one will be move from those views so you end up going round in a circle and flogging a dead horse

Not aimed at anyone in particular but from reading my way through this thread

would there be any point to forums in that case."

It depends on how you word your arguement,if it borders on insulting people and accusing them of things they think they're not then it becomes ridiculous

As adults we should be able to put a point across without resorting to below the belt comments,it causes people to become very defensive and the threads turn to chaos and get closed

The whole point get lost then

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

The real point about the £1.25-1.5b cost of the Inheritance Tax threshold rise is not the cost itself.....it's the principal.

To many people of this country who can remember how the privatisation of so much under previous Tory governments, meant the Tories deliberately under valuing the shares so that the wealthy elite in this country could buy them on the cheap, and trade them at a massive profit within the first year.....This was a deliberate ploy to swell the coffers of the few.

To people who felt betrayed by this 'gift' to the wealthy, the Inheritance Tax break again for the wealthy will look like old Tory fun and games.

In a five year initial term this will mean £6-7 billion extra going to the few of this country.

Many people of this country will find this unpallitable in a time that could mean severe cuts for ordinary families in their day to day lives.

It is going to a hard Five years ahead for ordinary families as it is, whoever is in power, but will taste even worse when ordinary people see the wealthy being rewarded at thier expense.

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

If any of you have any doubts as to the REAL plans of the Tories (not the things they publish in their manifesto) they should read the Tory Central Office released document "Regulation In The Post-Bureaucratic Age"

A snippet on Health and Safety...

"The powers of Government inspectors will be drastically curbed by allowing firms to arrange their own, externally audited inspections and, providing they pass, to refuse entry to official inspectors thereafter. We will also introduce ‘MOT style’ inspection reports, quoting precisely which section of which law has been broken, to prevent regulatory ‘scope creep’ where laws are applied too strictly by overzealous inspectors."

On Business Red Tape....

"A Conservative Government will create a process for reviewing and, if necessary, modernising the 30 worst failures in regulations and red tape each year. Once a regulation has been officially entered for this process, it will automatically acquire a ‘sunset clause’ which will repeal it entirely 12 months later, unless the Government or Parliament takes positive action to reaffirm or modernise it in the meantime.

So anything the Tory donators don't like will be repealed....Pay back for the people that bankroll the Tories

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

the times... the sun.... common denominator....news corp and Rupert Murdoch.. so expect the news of the world and the sunday times to go the same way.....

They will all go the same way i.e whichever way murdoch fancies it.... and they do like to be on the side of the winner... hence the switch in the 1st place!

if it was the opinion bed that was worth the read it wasn't the Times one.. it was the Guardian one and they put there full reasons behind it...

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

My husband works for the Murdochs (via his job with Sky), recently Sky have taken a clobbering from both the EU and Ofcom.

With the Murdochs money is at the root of every decision within their various organisations and publications, if they feel that any political party in Government (be it Tory or Labour) is not best serving the best interests of their organisations the Murdochs will act accordingly in backing the opposition.

The Tories recently questioned in the House the need for Ofcom to artificially determine Premier League football club income by forcing Sky to relinquish some of their control.

Coincidence that Murdochs various publications and media outlets change alligience to the Tories?

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By *exeteraWoman over a year ago

Bridgend

I believe it's still very much a 3 horse race and I for one will just wait for the results coming in Thursday night. I totally agree with Jayne that it will be difficult for the next 5 years regardless of who gets in. I also see from the news that Mrs Duffy has prospered very well under the current Labour government with her £80k payout by the Mail for her story.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

ooohhh my conspiracy may have been right if thats what she gettin!!!

we can only look to the future, but like every other job that you apply for your past work history plays a major part in it!

and when you look back at the years we had under a tory government some of it really doesnt look good!

the price of electricity for example soon as it was privatised it went up and keeps going up and up.... then for lower income families its the dreaded key meter pay in advance and pay more than someone on direct debit same for pensioners etc,

the telephone privatised, only in the last few years has the bt monopoly been reigned in and the market has some competition and choice for consumers.

the selling off of british airways pay a fortune for a flight but can use the no frills airways which are dicey at times!

gas, water, god knows how many other ones

then the industries gone!! off to a service economy which really only benefits those that can afford to use these services thats if they can get a job and when they do its on a bare basic wage that without the introduction of the minimum wage would be a lot worse! iv found a wage slip from when i worked in the factory 40 hr wk for 3 quid an hr! but i lived at home then so didnt have a house to run!

cameron may promise change but his paymasters may see different and we will all pay the price and if i hear broken britain one more time i think i will scream! britain is broken because they destroyed the jobs that gave people pride and a sense of belonging and have created the 2nd generation unemployed who have never seen the good things that come from work only despair and decay and the rich gettin richer!

i could rant on and on and on here but the power lies next wk on voting day use it and use it well people whoever you may vote for xx

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

All we ever hear from Labour supporters is conspiracy, conspiracy & conspiracy, as though every waking moment in a Tory MP's life is devoted to giving Mr Nepotism a few extra quid nicked out of the pockets of the poor working class.

If enough poor working class felt they were going to be robbed mercilessly under a Tory government they wouldn't be deserting Labour in droves would they? The Tories are heading for a win in terms of most seats if the latest polls are to be believed, which is up from Labour winning with most seats. As the week progresses I expect to see an even bigger shift towards the Tories from both Libdems and Labour voters to an eventual majority for the Blues, but no landslide.

Now this can only happen if those same poor working class people see through all the Labour spin and the Libdem inaccuracies and manifesto contradictions and vote Conservative.

But I know some who will simply shrug it off as they're secret Tories or just plain stupid. Can a large % of the electorate be THAT wrong?

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"All we ever hear from Labour supporters is conspiracy, conspiracy & conspiracy, as though every waking moment in a Tory MP's life is devoted to giving Mr Nepotism a few extra quid nicked out of the pockets of the poor working class.

Now this can only happen if those same poor working class people see through all the Labour spin and the Libdem inaccuracies and manifesto contradictions and vote Conservative.

But I know some who will simply shrug it off as they're secret Tories or just plain stupid. Can a large % of the electorate be THAT wrong?"

so what has anyone said here about conservative policy that is plain wrong or inaccurate....

the fact that the conservative cuts in the public sector will be the biggest since WW2?... not us, that would be the IFS

the fact that those at the top would end up getting a bigger tax cut while cutting the services those at the bottom depend on?

so they "ringfence" the NHS and education.... but won't tell us exactly what they will cut?

please put us right.......

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

there so much nepotism in the tory party its like the cast of deliverence!

the house of lords is a prime example you could practically make a family tree from them!

show me a working class tory then i possibly may change my mind?

the problem is no one is willing to stand up and say what they are going to do for the ordinary people or even a party with principles the middle classes arent going to fare much better under tory rule or labour rule and i think a few of them may swing to lib dem .

a lot of the older generation who may have lost jobs or homes under the last tory government are goin to be key deciders in this election or possibly be the ones who dont vote. i think this time if there is less than a 50% turn out somethin needs to change we are leavin a democracy and heading for complete apathy which is not a good thing xx

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

I think we all need to be aware that although the Tories are promising to ringfence Education and Health budgets there is enormous scope for them to channel an awful lot of monies into the private sector from these same budgets.

The paper they released on education and how they intend to hand out more 'Parent Power' with regards to allowing groups to build their own schools is potentially groundbreaking....In all the wrong ways I might add.

They absolutely refuse to rule out allowing many of these new schools to be Private schools with very careful selection policies in place.

So now your taxes can and will be used to build more schools for the well heeled, public money into private education.

The self same thing applies to Health budgeting, all very well ringfencing current funding levels if those monies (remember you pay for them) are only used in sectors that are strictly NHS.

If you believe that the Tories will not divert money (your taxes) away from Schools, Hospitals, Dentists, Clinics for ALL....then vote Tory on thursday, with your head held high.

If however you can see what lies under the surface with the Tories vote for ANYONE other than them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

another one i was thinkin of in regards to " broken britain" was how are they goin to fix this?

is it back to the 2.4 family mum stays at home dad goes to work but what about lone parents? you know them that are to blame for everythin?

are we going to be taking a step back for women and equality and freeing up more jobs for men ( with the exception of lone parents your doin 2 jobs to make up for no man)

the tories always are good for inequality between men and women and they have been very quiet about how they will repair society xx

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"I think we all need to be aware that although the Tories are promising to ringfence Education and Health budgets there is enormous scope for them to channel an awful lot of monies into the private sector from these same budgets.

They absolutely refuse to rule out allowing many of these new schools to be Private schools with very careful selection policies in place.

So now your taxes can and will be used to build more schools for the well heeled, public money into private education.

The self same thing applies to Health budgeting, all very well ringfencing current funding levels if those monies (remember you pay for them) are only used in sectors that are strictly NHS.

If you believe that the Tories will not divert money (your taxes) away from Schools, Hospitals, Dentists, Clinics for ALL....then vote Tory on thursday, with your head held high.

If however you can see what lies under the surface with the Tories vote for ANYONE other than them."

Very eloquent and absolutely true, well said Jane. You will not be able to change the minds of the working class Conservative voter who for centuries has doffed his cap and bent over to be shafted by the Tories though.

The real shame is that those same voters fail to see that every social advance has come socialist (left of centre) politicians and policies and not from right wing policies or those that implement them.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Tory majority on Friday morning. You'll see. Can't wait for it. I am itching to see Brown and his bunch of incompetent prats turfed out on their arses and into the political wilderness because I also predict that the party of Official Opposition on May 7th will be the LibDems, not Labour. What a day that will be and I'll be pissed as a rat in celebration.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

i wouldnt count the chickens before they hatch.........

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"i wouldnt count the chickens before they hatch.........

xx"

The little feathery darlings are already cheeping hon lol xx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

noooo its your chair squeeking i recommend wd40 lol x

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By *aucy3Couple over a year ago

glasgow

"i know you well enough wishy,to know 1 weeks ago you were cosidering voting bnp.so i might call a spade ,a spade,but its usually a spade.

Sheesh!

quote/ if only they could shake off the mantle of racism,that underlies the party.they would be serious contenders for my vote.

to me that sounds like,you think it would be ok for them to be racist.if only they could fool people, into thinking they were not.quite different from what you have written above.although i expected nothing else.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"i know you well enough wishy,to know 1 weeks ago you were cosidering voting bnp.so i might call a spade ,a spade,but its usually a spade.

Sheesh!

quote/ if only they could shake off the mantle of racism,that underlies the party.they would be serious contenders for my vote.

Well that's twisting someone's words if I ever I saw a perfect example of it. Are you a spin doctor?

As a patriot yes I am dismayed by some of the things that have happened in this country - the open door policy that Labour initiated that let's anyone in and the proposed LibDem amnesty for 100,000 illegals already here, but I am no racist - I am uncle to two mixed race children and I have had plenty of lovers from ethnic groups in the past. You couldn't find someone more unracist than me.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"noooo its your chair squeeking i recommend wd40 lol x

My chair DOES squeak! And it's a brand new recliner. Have you been round my house while I'm out then? lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"noooo its your chair squeeking i recommend wd40 lol x

My chair DOES squeak! And it's a brand new recliner. Have you been round my house while I'm out then? lol

ah the all seeing eye of nwty stretches far.....lol xx

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By *aucy3Couple over a year ago

glasgow

"i know you well enough wishy,to know 1 weeks ago you were cosidering voting bnp.so i might call a spade ,a spade,but its usually a spade.

Sheesh!

quote/ if only they could shake off the mantle of racism,that underlies the party.they would be serious contenders for my vote.

Well that's twisting someone's words if I ever I saw a perfect example of it. Are you a spin doctor?

at least i didnt change the wording to suit my own purpose.im begining to find it hard,to believe,anything you say.the bnp,were totally founded on racism,thats who they are.anyone who thinks anything else,are either deluding themselves.or just plain stupid.you pick.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"at least i didnt change the wording to suit my own purpose.im begining to find it hard,to believe,anything you say.the bnp,were totally founded on racism,thats who they are.anyone who thinks anything else,are either deluding themselves.or just plain stupid.you pick."

Right. This is Pt.III of this thread. Go see Pt. I and look at the opening post. I'll even give you the link so you don't have to tax your brain too much looking for it ~

http://www.fabswingers.com/forum/lounge/23974#message_450111

Now, go have a look at it and then come back.

Erm.... Who did I say I am voting for?

Got it?

Understand?

Too complex?

Let me remind you then.

I said 'Conservative'

I'm a postal voter this time and my ballot papers have been sent with 2 'X' next to the Conservative candidate for both Local and General Elections.

So no matter how you try and twist things to deflect from the fact that your party is going to get crucified on Thursday, I have NEVER said I am voting for the BNP. Stop making things up as it suits you and read what's actually been said.

You.... um.... can read, can't you?

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By *aucy3Couple over a year ago

glasgow

[Removed by poster at 02/05/10 02:21:49]

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By *ickmealloverWoman over a year ago

a very plush appartment off junt 7 M5

Cameron wont get in

It'll probably be a hung parliament as so many voters are still undecided

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The nearer we get, the more I cry. I can't go back to Tories ruling us, LibDems don't have a clue, this has, for all you think remember just 18 months, been the most settled 13 years for interest rates, inflation, in my lifetime and I'll be 50 soon! You won't know what you had til you threw it away! x

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By *aucy3Couple over a year ago

glasgow

i understand for you its hard without pics,but try to keep up.thats not twisting words,thats what you said.think about it,concentrate,you can do it.

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By *ickmealloverWoman over a year ago

a very plush appartment off junt 7 M5

"The nearer we get, the more I cry. I can't go back to Tories ruling us, LibDems don't have a clue, this has, for all you think remember just 18 months, been the most settled 13 years for interest rates, inflation, in my lifetime and I'll be 50 soon! You won't know what you had til you threw it away! x"

I absolutely agree

Gorden rescued us from a woldwide recession that the USA staeted

Various countries are bankrupt

Not us

We dont need some fly by night tories to shut down services

We need Browns expertise, we dont have to like the man to KNOW hes doing a good job

He wants to stop bankers bonus's which was something that Thatcher enchouraged

No matter where you look theres a shit trail leading back to that evil women

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A personal battle is not pretty be it here or on the stump. Listen, even Nick Griffin on Question Time and Radio 4 can't remember what he said, when he said it or why! That is how freaking irrelevant the BNP are!

Back in the day did all the marching for Rock Against Racism, Anti-Nazi League; speak up against racists, turn up against them and you'll find they deny they ever said that and melt away.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Jesus! You'll be blaming her for WW2 next. The Depression of the 20's - Thatcher again huh? Roman Invasion of Britain? Yup, her sticky hands on that one too.

She took this country by the scruff of it's neck and turned it around from the failing, strike-ridden, Winter of Discontent days of James Callahan and made Britain Great again. We prospered under Thatcher. She broke the Unions and shut down busineses that no business being in business but were being propped up by the previous Labour govt just so the dole queue didn't grow.

Do you remember the miner's strike? Scargill closed those pits for year, not Thatcher, Scargill closed them by taking his members out and left them closed for so long that they were unsafe to reopen. That militant Labour bastard decided to take on the govt and he didn't care about his members so long as he won. He lost, the miners lost, and an industry crippled.

And as for not being bankrupt... have you seen the deficit? £164bn!! If this Labout govt continue spending at the rate it is spending now that figure will be £1.3 TRILLION (1,300,000,000,000)by 2015

That is equivalent to £90,000 per household that you'll be in hock for. Your grandchildren will be paying that little lot off.

Gordon Brown said in 2005 that spending one's way out of a recession is reckless yet that is the central focus of the Labour manifesto now.

In 20 years time it will be Brown that will be villified as our worst ever PM - not Thatcher.

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By *ickmealloverWoman over a year ago

a very plush appartment off junt 7 M5

total bollix

We had debt from ww2 that we were paying off for yrs

And so many people remember thatcher for all the greed she enchouraged

She is responsible for much of the mess this courty is still in decades later

Its thanks to her that there is no social housing cos she sold the bloody lot off

Look at dame shirley porter for verification as to how corrupt they were enchouraged to be offering homes for votes

People have long memories

Why does she still need a policeman outside her house do you think?

We pay for it

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I lived in Retford, Notts, in the miners strike, and we all knew who caused it although Notts miners fought Yorkshire ones. Thatcher did it with the aid of that American bloke she brought in. And so not true that the mines were made unsafe during the strike, they were kept safe on purpose by the lads. It was only when political decisions were made to close they became un-reopenable! And that was to rub noses into the shit she dealt!

Yes, we have a deficit, show me a country that hasn't? Going to Spain or Greece this year on hols? Good, cos they freaking need your money, as does any other country you can name!

And yes, this recession did originate in the USA by their selling mortgages they said were good to our banking systems, then betting on those same mortgages to default!

Cameron's wife is in one of the largest banking families there is - did you go to Eton (Cameron) or Westminster (Clegg)?

Do you really think that 2 public schoolboys who have never had a job outstide politics have a clue?

Off to put my head in a bucket of eels now ... x

She took this country by

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

‘Right to Buy’ was the scheme under which council tenants were – and indeed still are – entitled to purchase their homes at a heavily discounted price of up to 44%. To qualify for the scheme, you have to have been a tenant for at least two years although you did not need to have spent this time in the same property or as a tenant of the same housing authority.

The scheme was introduced in the Housing Act 1980, as one of the first major reforms introduced by the Thatcher government. During the 70s, some local authorities had begun to voluntarily sell parts of its housing stock, but the introduction of ‘Right to Buy’ and its forcing of councils to sell their properties on request at a discount was highly politically controversial. So much so that it brought about a strike by NALGO members who refused to process scheme applications. Despite this, it was overwhelmingly popular and around 90,000 properties were sold in that year alone.

Aside from being massively popular, it also served a number of ideological purposes for the Conservatives. At the same time as increasing home ownership – regarded as a critical ideological aspect of Thatcher’s belief around the economic self-sufficiency of the individual – ‘Right to Buy’ also reduced the responsibilities and size of local authorities. And so whilst 55% of properties were inhabited by owner-occupiers in 1979, by 2003, this figure had risen to 70%.

In 1982, ‘Right to Buy’ sales hit an all-time high of more than 240,000, and in response, 1984 saw the available discounts being further increased. Having previously opposed the policy, in 1985 LABOUR DULY ABANDONED ITS STANCE. 1989 saw sales exceed 200,000 for the second time resulting in more than 2.1 million properties being sold between 1979 and 1995.

When Labour came to power in 1997, ‘Right to Buy’ looked to be slowing down and so Labour reduced the maximum discounts available. At the same time, it reduced the proportion of Capital Receipts from sales of council housing that local authorities were required to retain, releasing £3 billion in the process. Whilst of some benefit to local authorities, because the Thatcher government’s scheme required so much of the profits to be retained, the result was local authorities had been unable to reinvest the money from sales into building more houses. Consequently, the sold housing stock was never replaced thus leaving a massive shortfall in the numbers of available social properties.

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By *ickmealloverWoman over a year ago

a very plush appartment off junt 7 M5

yadda yadda

Thatcher has a lot to answer for

Shirley Porter for one

Notice you never mentioned her

cos you cant say she wasn't corrupt

And she was far from the only one

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By *ickmealloverWoman over a year ago

a very plush appartment off junt 7 M5

"Dame Shirley was found guilty by the House of Lords of trying to "gerrymander" local elections by selling flats intended for the homeless – to Tory voters. She was ordered to pay £27m, the largest surcharge imposed in Britain, and the first steps were taken towards freezing her assets. In a scarcely noticed move last summer, the surcharge was increased to £36m to include interest and costs"

Makes the current expenses thingy look small fry doesn't it?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"yadda yadda

Thatcher has a lot to answer for

Shirley Porter for one

Notice you never mentioned her

cos you cant say she wasn't corrupt

And she was far from the only one

Yadda? Is that a Jewish call to dinner or something?

You didn't even read it because you can't stand to be proven wrong. Labour favoured the 'Right to buy' scheme just as much as Thatcher did, but the houses weren't replaced because Labour recalled the money made from the sale of those houses leaving the local authorities with nothing to rebuild with. Read it. It's all there. You're wearing blinkers and you've convinced yourself over the years of things that are nothing more than a figment of your own imagination. Thatcher had controversial policies sure, but she also had some of the most popular ones, although I don't include the hated Poll Tax in that, I was in the riots in London over that bloody fiasco.

I just can't wait for Friday when we have a Conservative Government and this country gets put back on the road to prosperity once more.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

""Dame Shirley was found guilty by the House of Lords of trying to "gerrymander" local elections by selling flats intended for the homeless – to Tory voters. She was ordered to pay £27m, the largest surcharge imposed in Britain, and the first steps were taken towards freezing her assets. In a scarcely noticed move last summer, the surcharge was increased to £36m to include interest and costs"

Makes the current expenses thingy look small fry doesn't it?"

She's a crook and got her come uppance, good riddance too but it's not indicative of ALL Conservative MP's, as was born out by the expenses scandal that festered across all sides of the political divide.

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By *ickmealloverWoman over a year ago

a very plush appartment off junt 7 M5

Not then no

Just the tories who were in power

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Not then no

Just the tories who were in power"

And THAT is total bollix - to paraphrase your own words.

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By *ickmealloverWoman over a year ago

a very plush appartment off junt 7 M5

Ex-Tory Jonathan Aitken has given his backing to the UK Independence Party just four months after being blocked as a Conservative candidate.

Mr Aitken was jailed for 18 months in June 1999 for perjury and perverting the course of justice.

News of his backing for UKIP comes on the same day they got an endorsement from ex-cricketer Geoff Boycott

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By *ickmealloverWoman over a year ago

a very plush appartment off junt 7 M5

Derek Conway, the disgraced Tory MP who sparked outrage by paying his family more than £200,000 of taxpayers' money, has announced he will stand down at the next election.

The MP for Old Bexley and Sidcup bowed to public pressure, after attracting widespread criticism for paying his son an excessive parliamentary salary for work as a researcher

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By *ickmealloverWoman over a year ago

a very plush appartment off junt 7 M5

Disgraced former Tory MP Julie Kirkbride is cashing in on her taxpayer-funded second home by putting it up for rent at £925 a month.

Miss Kirkbride, who stood down as an MP for Bromsgrove over the expenses scandal, claimed more than £80,000 in expenses for a three bedroom mansion flat in her Worcestershire constituency.

The former Tory MP even used taxpayer funds to help pay for a £50,000 extension so her brother could live in the flat - jointly owned with her former Tory MP husband Andrew Mackay - for free.

The flat was last week being advertised as furnished accommodation in a 'splendid historic hall', while the lounge was said to offer views over 'beautifully landscaped gardens'.

The couple's political careers were wrecked when it emerged that they were funding both their London home and the flat out of parliamentary expenses

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/election/article-1267031/General-Election-2010-Julie-Kirkbride-plans-make-cash-renting-flat.html#ixzz0mjiI7gk1

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Oh don't "yadda yadda" at each other or I'm off to watch Playschool!

You don't think that Labour reduced discounts on the sale of Council Houses cos it fundamentally saw the discounted sale of houses built by tax payers' money as not quite right then? Or thought that if you can buy a fooking house, go buy one then, don't half-nick one!

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By *ickmealloverWoman over a year ago

a very plush appartment off junt 7 M5

HERE'S disgraced Tory MP David Curry, who had to apologise to Parliament and repay pounds 28,000 of his expenses for a second- home love nest in his North Yorkshire constituency.

Never mind, he's retiring and in line for a pounds 59,585 pay- off - more than double the amount he had to pay back.

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By *ickmealloverWoman over a year ago

a very plush appartment off junt 7 M5

David Wiltshire, who was forced to resign after paying more than £100,000 in expenses to his own company, said the “witch hunt” against MPs “will undermine democracy”.

“Branding a whole group of people as undesirables led to Hitler’s gas chambers,” he added.

Profile of Sir Christopher Kelly

MPs' expenses scandal: a timeline

MPs' expenses: reforms in jeopardy, warns Harman

MPs' expenses: Committee appointing standards team have questionable record

Tory MP David Wilshire to resign over expenses

David Wilshire under pressure to pay back £100k The Tory MP used his office expenses to write to all his constituents defending his claims and attacking The Daily Telegraph.

Voters in his Spelthorne constituency were surprised to receive a two-page letter, written on Commons notepaper and sent using taxpayer-funded pre-paid envelopes, in which he said that he was “devastated” at having to stand down.

A voter who emailed to protest at Mr Wilshire’s behaviour received the reply in which Mr Wilshire compared MPs whose claims were exposed during the expenses scandal to Holocaust victims

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By *ickmealloverWoman over a year ago

a very plush appartment off junt 7 M5

Michael Howard expressed interest in being hired by fake Dispatches lobbyistFormer Tory leader was one of a number of Conservative MPs who made contact before being warned of a possible trap

(11)Tweet this (28)Comments (17) Rob Evans and Rajeev Syal guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 23 March 2010 16.25 GMT Article history

Michael Howard, the former Tory leader. Photograph: Martin Argles

Former Tory leader Michael Howard was one of a number of Conservative MPs who expressed interest in being hired by the fake lobbying firm that exposed three former Labour cabinet ministers.

He and the other Tories later withdrew their interest before meeting the fictitious lobbyists. The Conservative whips had been warned of a possible trap during the making of the Channel 4 Dispatches programme.

The MPs had been approached by undercover reporters working for Channel 4's programme posing as an American lobbying firm, Anderson Perry Associates seeking MPs to join an advisory board.

Two days after being contacted by the would-be lobbyists, Howard, who declares a string of paid posts, emailed back suggesting "perhaps it would be a good idea for us to meet for breakfast", adding: "I should perhaps mention that I have also been approached by another company in your field but have not so far signed up to anyone!"

The former Tory leader is currently on the board of four companies. He has been paid more than £36,000 to be the non-executive chairman of racecourse owner Northern Racing since last August.

After being approached, Ian Taylor, the Tory MP for Esher and Walton, wrote back with a copy of his CV, thanking them "for making contact". He added that he had a "private consultancy company which I use for non-parliamentary activities".

Last night, Taylor said: "I took a phone call from the 'company' around 24 February. I indicated that political lobbying was not of interest to me."

David Wilshire, the Conservative MP for Spelthorne, offered a series of dates for a meeting.

Sir John Butterfill was the only Tory MP who fell for the scam. Julie Kirkbride was the Tory MP who rumbled the sting and informed the Tory hierarchy.

Labour MPs Stephen Byers, Geoff Hoon, Patricia Hewitt — all ex-cabinet ministers — and Margaret Moran were suspended from the parliamentary party last night after being implicated by Dispatches

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Oh, and cos all this happened, your children will live with you or hold their hand out forever! For every 10% your house value goes up, your children will be with you another 4 or 5 yrs!

I had my own flat at 21, twice my salary mortgage, lovely bit of Southampton. I worked like hell for it. Will your kids be able to do the same? lololol

Bankers, estate agents, how big are the prisons?

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By *ickmealloverWoman over a year ago

a very plush appartment off junt 7 M5

The Westland affair was a political scandal for the British Conservative government of Margaret Thatcher in 1986. The argument was a result of differences of opinion within the government as to the future of the United Kingdom helicopter industry. The struggling Westland company, Britain's last helicopter manufacturer, was to be the subject of a rescue bid. While the Defence Secretary Michael Heseltine favoured a European solution, integrating Westland and British Aerospace (BAe) with Italian (Agusta) and French companies, the Prime Minister and the Trade and Industry Secretary Leon Brittan wanted to see Westland merge with Sikorsky, an American company. It resulted in Heseltine's resignation.

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By *ickmealloverWoman over a year ago

a very plush appartment off junt 7 M5

1980s MP'S SCANDALS

Cecil Parkinson affair with secretary Sara Keays resulting in their child, Flora Keays (1983)

Al Yamamah contract alleged to have been obtained by bribery (1985)

Westland affair (1986)

Jeffrey Archer and the prostitute allegations (1986), and his subsequent conviction for perjury (2001)

Edwina Currie resigns as a junior Health minister for incorrectly claiming that millions of British eggs were infected with salmonella, stating that "most of [British] egg production" was infected (1988)

"Homes for votes" gerrymandering scandal (1987-1989)

BSE (1989)

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By *ickmealloverWoman over a year ago

a very plush appartment off junt 7 M5

Cash-for-questions affair involving Neil Hamilton, Tim Smith and Mohamed Al-Fayed (1994

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By *ickmealloverWoman over a year ago

a very plush appartment off junt 7 M5

Nicholas Ridley compares the EU to the Third Reich in an interview in The Spectator magazine (1990)

David Mellor resignation after press disclosure of his affair with Antonia de Sancha and gratis holiday from a daughter of a PLO official (1992)

Back to Basics, a government policy slogan portrayed by opponents and the press as a morality campaign to compare it with a contemporaneous succession of sex scandals in John Major's government which led to the resignation of Tim Yeo and the Earl of Caithness, among others (1994)

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

ooo someone's found Google. How clever of you. Now Google corrupt Labour MPs and maybe throw in a few who've had their willies in places they oughtn't to have them, just to show that you are unbiased like. There's a good girl. Ta.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Oh don't "yadda yadda" at each other or I'm off to watch Playschool!

It's just a hunch but if Labour thought the 'Right to Buy' scheme was fundamentally wrong they'd have stopped it altogether, wouldn't they? ... And please, feel free to offer your house back to the government if you believe in social housing that much. Maybe leave it to the govt. in your will so you don't have to burden your kids with it when you die, that would be cool wouldn't it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

emmm tories brung in the introduction of the csa act to back up their back to basics campaign and what happened....

there were more illigetimate children to tory mps then anything else!! typical full of double standards!

john major and edwina curries affair??

apologies to anyone who eating breakfast!!

the right to buy, the trade union act all thatcher policies to keep the working class in their place and to keep the class divide going! she knew what she was doing as did her cabinet!

one thing i will say about her, she took no shit from no one but it led to her downfall!

social housing is in a complete mess and no wonder we have problems when you see what people have to live in, its the worst of the worst housing and the problems that come when you concentrate the underclass all in one area in conditions that a rat would leave and i for one thank god iv got a concionce to realise this and want things improved for everyone not just myself and my blinkered belief and im alright jack!

give me the party who is goin to make it fairer for all, not the ones who will issue soundbites and tell us what we want to hear until their arses in the door then its man mind thy self xx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We are 13 years into the Blair/Brown reign yet still everything is Mrs T's fault..........................

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"We are 13 years into the Blair/Brown reign yet still everything is Mrs T's fault..........................

yup!! i blame that woman for everythin from my grey hair onwards! xx

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"We are 13 years into the Blair/Brown reign yet still everything is Mrs T's fault..........................

If that's the case why haven't Labour reversed all those policies. They've had enough time.

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By *exeteraWoman over a year ago

Bridgend

"We are 13 years into the Blair/Brown reign yet still everything is Mrs T's fault..........................

If that's the case why haven't Labour reversed all those policies. They've had enough time.

Probably because of all the obstacles they have to traverse.

i.e.

Can either go to the House of Lords or House of Commons first, same rules apply.

I'll work on the House of Lords example:

First reading

Second reading

Committee stage

Report stage

Third reading

Then it's passed on to the House of Commons.

First reading

Second reading

Committee stage

Report stage

Third reading

Then it goese to both House of Lords and House of Commons to consider any ammendments before it goes to the Queen for Royal Assent.

Jeez, it's easier to pass a kidney stone the size of the meteor in Armaggedon.

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By *eorge17Man over a year ago

Leven

Right. This is Pt.III of this thread. Go see Pt. I and look at the opening post. I'll even give you the link so you don't have to tax your brain too much looking for it ~

http://www.fabswingers.com/forum/lounge/23974#message_450111

Now, go have a look at it and then come back.

Erm.... Who did I say I am voting for?

Got it?

Understand?

Too complex?

Let me remind you then.

I said 'Conservative'

I'm a postal voter this time and my ballot papers have been sent with 2 'X' next to the Conservative candidate for both Local and General Elections.

You.... um.... can read, can't you?

You may care to take a look at 2 posts you made 5 days ago

'But... I didn't realise that there are two elections up here, Local and Parliamentary, so now I've decided to keep with my original plan to vote Blue for the Gen Election and Yellow for the Locals'

'Postal ballot papers arrived today, are all filled out and ready to send back by tomorrow's mail. There is no fookin way I'm not getting a vote matey!!'

Today you say you voted Conservative in both elections. So what is correct?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

made redundant 3 times under tory leadership ,,, she decimated british industry to destroy the unions ,, sold the nationalised industries off for a song leaving it impossible for any future government to reverse the process ,, and as for the orange lot ,,, well how tax cuts are going to be paid for is a mystery to me ,,, we all know that tax will have to go up year on year as the nation is a caring place ,,, if you want the " i,m allright jack " mentality returning then vote blue ,,, but dont say you aint been warned

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Right. This is Pt.III of this thread. Go see Pt. I and look at the opening post. I'll even give you the link so you don't have to tax your brain too much looking for it ~

http://www.fabswingers.com/forum/lounge/23974#message_450111

Now, go have a look at it and then come back.

Erm.... Who did I say I am voting for?

Got it?

Understand?

Too complex?

Let me remind you then.

I said 'Conservative'

I'm a postal voter this time and my ballot papers have been sent with 2 'X' next to the Conservative candidate for both Local and General Elections.

You.... um.... can read, can't you?

You may care to take a look at 2 posts you made 5 days ago

'But... I didn't realise that there are two elections up here, Local and Parliamentary, so now I've decided to keep with my original plan to vote Blue for the Gen Election and Yellow for the Locals'

'Postal ballot papers arrived today, are all filled out and ready to send back by tomorrow's mail. There is no fookin way I'm not getting a vote matey!!'

Today you say you voted Conservative in both elections. So what is correct?"

Between then and the time I completed my ballot papers Nick Clegg went on the final leader's debate and said they'd found £15bn worth of savings to pay off the deficit and then immediately said that special needs schools would get £2.5bn of that. His sums don't add up and that made me vote Tory in both elections. Elections are funny like that, you're actually allowed to change your mind right up until you cast your vote if new information comes to light, unless of course you blindly vote for a particular party because your old grandad used to.

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By *eorge17Man over a year ago

Leven

Right. This is Pt.III of this thread. Go see Pt. I and look at the opening post. I'll even give you the link so you don't have to tax your brain too much looking for it ~

http://www.fabswingers.com/forum/lounge/23974#message_450111

Now, go have a look at it and then come back.

Erm.... Who did I say I am voting for?

Got it?

Understand?

Too complex?

Let me remind you then.

I said 'Conservative'

I'm a postal voter this time and my ballot papers have been sent with 2 'X' next to the Conservative candidate for both Local and General Elections.

You.... um.... can read, can't you?

You may care to take a look at 2 posts you made 5 days ago

'But... I didn't realise that there are two elections up here, Local and Parliamentary, so now I've decided to keep with my original plan to vote Blue for the Gen Election and Yellow for the Locals'

'Postal ballot papers arrived today, are all filled out and ready to send back by tomorrow's mail. There is no fookin way I'm not getting a vote matey!!'

Today you say you voted Conservative in both elections. So what is correct?

Of course you are allowed to change your mind but these 2 quotes were from 5 days ago (Tuesday) and the leaders debate was on Thursday, so how can you change your vote if you sent your postal vote on the Wednesday?

Oh, and I don't know who my grandad voted for.

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By *ickmealloverWoman over a year ago

a very plush appartment off junt 7 M5

"emmm tories brung in the introduction of the csa act to back up their back to basics campaign and what happened....

there were more illigetimate children to tory mps then anything else!! typical full of double standards!

john major and edwina curries affair??

apologies to anyone who eating breakfast!!

the right to buy, the trade union act all thatcher policies to keep the working class in their place and to keep the class divide going! she knew what she was doing as did her cabinet!

one thing i will say about her, she took no shit from no one but it led to her downfall!

give me the party who is goin to make it fairer for all, not the ones who will issue soundbites and tell us what we want to hear until their arses in the door then its man mind thy self xx"

to be fair tho

most tory mps will support any illigit children they have tho

unlike the type of man that gets a girl up the duff and runs and hides from all responsibility from day 1

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Right. This is Pt.III of this thread. Go see Pt. I and look at the opening post. I'll even give you the link so you don't have to tax your brain too much looking for it ~

http://www.fabswingers.com/forum/lounge/23974#message_450111

Now, go have a look at it and then come back.

Erm.... Who did I say I am voting for?

Got it?

Understand?

Too complex?

Let me remind you then.

I said 'Conservative'

I'm a postal voter this time and my ballot papers have been sent with 2 'X' next to the Conservative candidate for both Local and General Elections.

You.... um.... can read, can't you?

You may care to take a look at 2 posts you made 5 days ago

'But... I didn't realise that there are two elections up here, Local and Parliamentary, so now I've decided to keep with my original plan to vote Blue for the Gen Election and Yellow for the Locals'

'Postal ballot papers arrived today, are all filled out and ready to send back by tomorrow's mail. There is no fookin way I'm not getting a vote matey!!'

Today you say you voted Conservative in both elections. So what is correct?

the 2.5 billion was not for special needs schools, it was for the poorest and educationally disadvantaged xx

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Of course you are allowed to change your mind"

Why are you making such a big deal about it then. I have more respect for people who weigh up the policies of all the parties and cast their vote according to which of them best represent their interests, not those who vote labour 'cos me dad does', or 'we always vote labour round here'.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

ok cool it please when getting your points across.

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By *eorge17Man over a year ago

Leven

"Of course you are allowed to change your mind

I am not making a big deal about anyone changing their mind but I am questioning how you can say you have voted for one party one day then say you voted differently a few days later.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"the 2.5 billion was not for special needs schools, it was for the poorest and educationally disadvantaged xx"

Thank you for the clarification, it was indeed children from the poorest areas. It still makes his overall maths a bit suspect though as he'd said that the money saved in government spending was to go towards paying off the deficit.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

there education policy does look good on paper, its the sums that dont add up!

they def tryin to bridge the gap in education and i was very impressed with the more vocational options, and lettin them leave at 14 to go into training etc xx

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"there education policy does look good on paper, its the sums that dont add up!

they def tryin to bridge the gap in education and i was very impressed with the more vocational options, and lettin them leave at 14 to go into training etc xx"
I also agree with their 6-year plan to make university education for 1st degree students free too, but again, the sums don't add up, not in the current economic climate anyway, and I fear that if they do hold some balance of power that the recovery could be put at risk if they hold out on crucial issues because some of their own policies get rejected. That's the biggest risk of a hung parliament - nothing gets done, in my opinion.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

a lot of them dont apply to scotland because our education system is different, but to be fair a lot of the policies regarding money by all the parties arent adding up i think its a case of promise the earth but failure to deliver will be imminent and the dreaded cuts.

i dont think a hung parliament would be a bad thing we have had enough failures so why not try it xx

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"there education policy does look good on paper, its the sums that dont add up!

they def tryin to bridge the gap in education and i was very impressed with the more vocational options, and lettin them leave at 14 to go into training etc xxI also agree with their 6-year plan to make university education for 1st degree students free too, but again, the sums don't add up, not in the current economic climate anyway, and I fear that if they do hold some balance of power that the recovery could be put at risk if they hold out on crucial issues because some of their own policies get rejected. That's the biggest risk of a hung parliament - nothing gets done, in my opinion."

but then again where does it make sense in the current ecomonic sence under the conservative for the top 2.5% to get a tax cut which will total approx £1.25bn

see its swings and roundabouts... but the one thing the lib dems did it to outline some of the things that would have to go...

so besides the NI increase... what have the Conservatives said will definatly go?

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

You see if ANY of the three main parties implement Vat at 5% on food at retail, then there is an awful lot of their election pladges that are very affordable....

And before anyone on here poo poos this, it was reported as far back as October last year in 'The Economist' that the Tories had in fact had this suggested to them by one of their think tanks.

Rule NOTHING out.....

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"You see if ANY of the three main parties implement Vat at 5% on food at retail, then there is an awful lot of their election pladges that are very affordable....

And before anyone on here poo poos this, it was reported as far back as October last year in 'The Economist' that the Tories had in fact had this suggested to them by one of their think tanks.

Rule NOTHING out....."

I'm fully aware that the manifestos of any party only outlines a few of their policies and if they were to include everything they intend to do we'd still be reading them at the next election lol. Somehow, they've got to raise the money to keep the country going and still pay off the huge debts we've got and that can only come through increased taxes. It'll hurt for sure, and if the Tories win on Thursday they'll be very unpopular, but if Labout win they'll be unpopular too because they won't be able to avoid spending cuts and tax rises either.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

The BBC are going to project a running total of seats won onto the south face of Big Ben throughout the night of May 6th after the polls close.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8656578.stm

I usually stay up to watch the results coming in anyway but as it's also my b/day that day we're making a night of it with some fun early on

then drinks later and then watch the results.

Looking forward to a really good evening!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The BBC are going to project a running total of seats won onto the south face of Big Ben throughout the night of May 6th after the polls close.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8656578.stm

I usually stay up to watch the results coming in anyway but as it's also my b/day that day we're making a night of it with some fun early on

then drinks later and then watch the results.

Looking forward to a really good evening!

yes there is someone with a sadder life than mine!! cheers wishy i feel so much better now!!! xx

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"The BBC are going to project a running total of seats won onto the south face of Big Ben throughout the night of May 6th after the polls close.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8656578.stm

I usually stay up to watch the results coming in anyway but as it's also my b/day that day we're making a night of it with some fun early on

then drinks later and then watch the results.

Looking forward to a really good evening!

yes there is someone with a sadder life than mine!! cheers wishy i feel so much better now!!! xx

Hey, it's important... and after three bottles of wine I'll feel very im..potent!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The BBC are going to project a running total of seats won onto the south face of Big Ben throughout the night of May 6th after the polls close.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8656578.stm

I usually stay up to watch the results coming in anyway but as it's also my b/day that day we're making a night of it with some fun early on

then drinks later and then watch the results.

Looking forward to a really good evening!

yes there is someone with a sadder life than mine!! cheers wishy i feel so much better now!!! xx

Hey, it's important... and after three bottles of wine I'll feel very im..potent!

well make sure its a good one!! or 3 !! thought u may have the champagne on ice just in case....xx

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"The BBC are going to project a running total of seats won onto the south face of Big Ben throughout the night of May 6th after the polls close.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8656578.stm

I usually stay up to watch the results coming in anyway but as it's also my b/day that day we're making a night of it with some fun early on

then drinks later and then watch the results.

Looking forward to a really good evening!

yes there is someone with a sadder life than mine!! cheers wishy i feel so much better now!!! xx

Hey, it's important... and after three bottles of wine I'll feel very im..potent!

well make sure its a good one!! or 3 !! thought u may have the champagne on ice just in case....xx

It's chillin in the fridge. (I'm sure there is a term for drinking champagne from a woman's pussy but I can't remember what it is)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

slack alice if she get fit the big end in!!

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

I managed to work out my rota on friday that i am 3-8... so i think i may stay up for a few "portillo" moments...

a few "big name" mp's could go...... and not all of them labour ones

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I managed to work out my rota on friday that i am 3-8... so i think i may stay up for a few "portillo" moments...

a few "big name" mp's could go...... and not all of them labour ones "

So long as Broon needs Pickfords the country will have the right result

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I managed to work out my rota on friday that i am 3-8... so i think i may stay up for a few "portillo" moments...

a few "big name" mp's could go...... and not all of them labour ones

So long as Broon needs Pickfords the country will have the right result

I think Brown will resign as party leader on Friday, so who'll replace him, my money is on someone called Miliband, they have a few of them don't they??

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

just watching a fascinating program on Channel 4 now.... the election uncovered...

I suggest that people watch it on demand... it is quite a shock to see what the next government may need to do.....

its shocked me and I am believing what the governor of the bank of england said in that the party who wins on thursday may then be out of a generation...

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

Vat on food.....bigger riots than we ever saw in the Poll Tax era

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I managed to work out my rota on friday that i am 3-8... so i think i may stay up for a few "portillo" moments...

a few "big name" mp's could go...... and not all of them labour ones

So long as Broon needs Pickfords the country will have the right result

I think Brown will resign as party leader on Friday, so who'll replace him, my money is on someone called Miliband, they have a few of them don't they??

If and its still an if, I think they will look for a more traditional leader, someone not ensconsed in New Labour, Alan Johnson would be my bet.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"I managed to work out my rota on friday that i am 3-8... so i think i may stay up for a few "portillo" moments...

a few "big name" mp's could go...... and not all of them labour ones

So long as Broon needs Pickfords the country will have the right result

I think Brown will resign as party leader on Friday, so who'll replace him, my money is on someone called Miliband, they have a few of them don't they??

If and its still an if, I think they will look for a more traditional leader, someone not ensconsed in New Labour, Alan Johnson would be my bet.

Alan Johnson was always the preferred choice of members of the Labour Party, Brown was imposed upon the membership.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"just watching a fascinating program on Channel 4 now.... the election uncovered...

I suggest that people watch it on demand... it is quite a shock to see what the next government may need to do.....

its shocked me and I am believing what the governor of the bank of england said in that the party who wins on thursday may then be out of a generation... "

I'm assuming you mean whoever wins will be voted out at the next election because they'll be so unpopular due to the severity of the cuts that they will be forced to make.

That's Brown's legacy. It's gonna be a painful few years I fear.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I managed to work out my rota on friday that i am 3-8... so i think i may stay up for a few "portillo" moments...

a few "big name" mp's could go...... and not all of them labour ones

So long as Broon needs Pickfords the country will have the right result

I think Brown will resign as party leader on Friday, so who'll replace him, my money is on someone called Miliband, they have a few of them don't they??

If and its still an if, I think they will look for a more traditional leader, someone not ensconsed in New Labour, Alan Johnson would be my bet.

New Labour is finished as a party principle. For Labour to win back it's traditional support (the working class) it has to go back to it's traditional roots. Making Brown leader and PM was a disaster and even the Labour heirarchy must be regretting that move now. Defeat seems to be written all over Mandelson's face whenever you see him on TV.

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"just watching a fascinating program on Channel 4 now.... the election uncovered...

I suggest that people watch it on demand... it is quite a shock to see what the next government may need to do.....

its shocked me and I am believing what the governor of the bank of england said in that the party who wins on thursday may then be out of a generation...

I'm assuming you mean whoever wins will be voted out at the next election because they'll be so unpopular due to the severity of the cuts that they will be forced to make.

That's Brown's legacy. It's gonna be a painful few years I fear.

It's a legacy that many future governments of various nations will endure.

Obama had exactly the same scenario when he won the US election.

There is expected to be an election forced in Spain within the next couple of months, their finances are in turmoil so whoever wins there will face an even more torrid time.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"just watching a fascinating program on Channel 4 now.... the election uncovered...

I suggest that people watch it on demand... it is quite a shock to see what the next government may need to do.....

its shocked me and I am believing what the governor of the bank of england said in that the party who wins on thursday may then be out of a generation...

I'm assuming you mean whoever wins will be voted out at the next election because they'll be so unpopular due to the severity of the cuts that they will be forced to make.

That's Brown's legacy. It's gonna be a painful few years I fear.

It's a legacy that many future governments of various nations will endure.

Obama had exactly the same scenario when he won the US election.

There is expected to be an election forced in Spain within the next couple of months, their finances are in turmoil so whoever wins there will face an even more torrid time."

It's certainly looking like a double-dipper heading our way, which angers me when Brown said that electing the Tories would lead to a double dip, he knows it's going to happen regardless.

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

"I managed to work out my rota on friday that i am 3-8... so i think i may stay up for a few "portillo" moments...

a few "big name" mp's could go...... and not all of them labour ones

So long as Broon needs Pickfords the country will have the right result

I think Brown will resign as party leader on Friday, so who'll replace him, my money is on someone called Miliband, they have a few of them don't they??

If and its still an if, I think they will look for a more traditional leader, someone not ensconsed in New Labour, Alan Johnson would be my bet.

It's not the party that is in turmoil, the membership wanted a leadership election and a change in the rules of the party have already ensured that never again will the leadership betrothed again.

The choice for members in the next few weeks is David Miliband and Alan Johnson. Even an election that resulted in a Lab/Lib coalition would have seen Brown removed within a three month period.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I managed to work out my rota on friday that i am 3-8... so i think i may stay up for a few "portillo" moments...

a few "big name" mp's could go...... and not all of them labour ones

So long as Broon needs Pickfords the country will have the right result

I think Brown will resign as party leader on Friday, so who'll replace him, my money is on someone called Miliband, they have a few of them don't they??

If and its still an if, I think they will look for a more traditional leader, someone not ensconsed in New Labour, Alan Johnson would be my bet.

It's not the party that is in turmoil, the membership wanted a leadership election and a change in the rules of the party have already ensured that never again will the leadership betrothed again.

The choice for members in the next few weeks is David Miliband and Alan Johnson. Even an election that resulted in a Lab/Lib coalition would have seen Brown removed within a three month period."

That would be a real kick in the teeth to the electorate. To have yet another PM elected through the back door would just about break our trust in politics irretrievably. If Labour want a new leader they should have ousted Brown before the election was called and then contested it with whoever took over, but I understand why that didn't happen. None of them would have wanted to be PM for 6 weeks and then lose an election. They're all slimy gits aren't they lol

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

[Removed by poster at 02/05/10 21:55:48]

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

Clegg made it quite plain that he couldn't join a coalition with Brown as the leader, so wheels are already turning to oust him in the event of a hung parliament.

I would guess Johnson in that scenario....

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Clegg made it quite plain that he couldn't join a coalition with Brown as the leader, so wheels are already turning to oust him in the event of a hung parliament.

I would guess Johnson in that scenario....

Clegg assumes too much lol... The Libs may well find themselves doing business with the Tories and if Cameron says he won't wotk with Clegg then the Libs will have to have a leadership contest, but that's not likely to happen as Clegg & Cameron are 16th cousins.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

I don't see what the problem with a hung parliment is .... been happening in germany for decades and yet over here is it like a taboo subject...

heck even in the US most Bills and Laws have some sort of of "bi-partisan" support

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Clegg made it quite plain that he couldn't join a coalition with Brown as the leader, so wheels are already turning to oust him in the event of a hung parliament.

I would guess Johnson in that scenario....

I think the bigger uncertainity is going to be the conservatives trying to operate some sort of minority government, than any sort of coalition...

how much stuff would they get thru parliment on a subject buy subject issue... I am guessing not much...

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I think a minority government is out of the equation now. Clegg won't work with Brown so he'll have to work with Cameron who'll have more seats than Labour. Failing that, they'll have to do it all again but with a new Labour leader as I don't think Brown will survive this election at any outcome.

Interestingly, I was reading in yesterdays Times that tuition fees for Universities are set to be uncapped in the not too distant future allowing Universities to charge full whack for the degrees they offer. This means students forking out £7,000 for a basic degree but up to £20,000 for a medical degree. Labour kept that quiet, as did the Tories, so maybe a hung parliament with Clegg holding the balance of power may not be a bad thing as one of the Libdem policies is to scrap fees for 1st Degrees altogether, and if they can push that through in favour of scrapping Trident, for example, then I'm all in favour of it.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Edit**

** in place of scrapping Trident

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I think a minority government is out of the equation now. Clegg won't work with Brown so he'll have to work with Cameron who'll have more seats than Labour. Failing that, they'll have to do it all again but with a new Labour leader as I don't think Brown will survive this election at any outcome.

Not saying it's a great idea but paying 20,000 for a medical degree is not really bad value when you consider the income from a life time as a Dr.

7,000 for a worthless degree in underwater basket weaving and the like might just persuade some folk that getting out into the real world a little earlier is a better option.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The BBC are going to project a running total of seats won onto the south face of Big Ben throughout the night of May 6th after the polls close.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8656578.stm

I usually stay up to watch the results coming in anyway but as it's also my b/day that day we're making a night of it with some fun early on

then drinks later and then watch the results.

Looking forward to a really good evening!

yes there is someone with a sadder life than mine!! cheers wishy i feel so much better now!!! xx

Wishy aint the only saddo lol

I always stay up and watch the results and have done for years

This year however will be different because of the welcome change (my opinion entirely)that there will be on Friday morning

Tory's with an overall majority if not a landslide

What makes me think that?

Well living in what has always until last time been a strong and safe labour seat at least 90% of my customers have strongly come out against labour and this time will be voting Tory

These are people to who voting Tory really sticks in their throat

But are sensible enough to realise that we cant go on like this and unfortunately the lib Dem's are not yet in a position to form a majority govt

As i have said people these are my views and my opinions

The thing i would be happy to see at the end of the day is that Friday morning

Be it lib Dem's,Labour,or the Tory's is a government with a majority and a full mandate from the people and a leader that was democratically elected and not a pillock who was just thrust upon us

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

i watched that programme on channel four last nite and it was a real eye opener!

no matter who is goin to be leading us they in for a tough time of it and the nhs i feel is goin to be hit very hard, but if it is done properly with the cuts being made where they are needed ie 4 people basically doin the same job it may take some of the sting out of it but its definately not looking good.

everytime i see greece i shudder, are we goin to go the same way?

as for vat increase on food that is really going to be a killer, food has already risen and when you already have thousands of children and elderly on the poverty line it is gonna hit them harderst xx

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By *exeteraWoman over a year ago

Bridgend

[Removed by poster at 03/05/10 18:23:37]

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By *exeteraWoman over a year ago

Bridgend

"i watched that programme on channel four last nite and it was a real eye opener!

everytime i see greece i shudder, are we goin to go the same way?

I agree it's going to be a tough post election ride. I think that Greece's situation will impact us and with lots of money tied up in Spain, I think we'll see problems there too. I fear for those already struggling, those who rely on Child tax credits etc to top up wages. I'd better order my "bollocks to the food VAT" T-shirt just in case but I hope it wont be needed.

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By *essnsteveCouple over a year ago

coventry

and heres us thinking this was a swingers site/forum !!!!! all the time it was an election forum rubbish !!!where do we get our money back ???????????

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"and heres us thinking this was a swingers site/forum !!!!! all the time it was an election forum rubbish !!!where do we get our money back ???????????"

There is a forum called 'Swingers Chat' - the clue is in the title.

This is called 'The Lounge' - for all sorts of things people talk about when they're not shagging, or trying to get one.

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By *exeteraWoman over a year ago

Bridgend

"and heres us thinking this was a swingers site/forum !!!!! all the time it was an election forum rubbish !!!where do we get our money back ???????????

There is a forum called 'Swingers Chat' - the clue is in the title.

This is called 'The Lounge' - for all sorts of things people talk about when they're not shagging, or trying to get one."

Well said Wishy, the Lounge as stated in the title page is for general chat and discussion. Can't shag all the time ffs

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Any party who puts VAT on food is on a hiding to nothing. We rallied against the hated Poll Tax all those years ago and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the same level of public disorder should a tax on food be implemented - it hits right across the political and social spectrum. Take it at their peril, are my immediate thoughts.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"and heres us thinking this was a swingers site/forum !!!!! all the time it was an election forum rubbish !!!where do we get our money back ???????????"

i could be rude here and say dont like dont post or maybe go and put your head back in the sand or wherever it was... or i could just say some of us actually can hold an intellectual conversation that doesnt just involve sex and the ins and outs.... but im way to polite to do that! xx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Amazing how many people think that swingers are sex crazed numpties that want ta talk dirty all day lol

Obviously don't really know much about it xx

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By *i 1 Get 1 FreeCouple (MM) over a year ago

birmingham

"Any party who puts VAT on food is on a hiding to nothing. We rallied against the hated Poll Tax all those years ago and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the same level of public disorder should a tax on food be implemented"

I doubt we'll see any public disorder wishy, after all we've been here before, who was it who introduced VAT on domestic utilities, oh yeh, was it Norman Lamont a Conservative chancellor?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

sorry bi but i think if we go for this vat on food the public will stand and object loudly!

a wks shopping just now is expensive enough everythin went up but many of us not had a pay rise that reflect this and its a struggle just now and thats before we think about the people on benefits which wont have an increase either xx

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By *i 1 Get 1 FreeCouple (MM) over a year ago

birmingham

"sorry bi but i think if we go for this vat on food the public will stand and object loudly!"

I doubt it, but we'll see what happens if it's applied, our problem is, we're not European like the French / Germans / Italians etc., etc., we moan and groan amongst ourselves, the biggest fear most people have at present is holding onto a job, it's not in the Brits make up to ruffle feathers

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

speak for yourself lol!! i think if it does happen, a lot of people will rally against it!

yeah everyone worryin about jobs but food is a vital thing as well as jobs and when the bills are mountin up and puttin food on the table is a priority people can live without jobs albeit not very good but when food starts to become a luxury we really do have problems.

your speaking to the converted about jobs im lookin for one and keep gettin told im overqualified and i cant claim welfare because im a student so where next months rent money is comin from remains a great mystery!! x

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By *i 1 Get 1 FreeCouple (MM) over a year ago

birmingham

"your speaking to the converted about jobs im lookin for one and keep gettin told im overqualified and i cant claim welfare because im a student so where next months rent money is comin from remains a great mystery!! x

I've been out of work for 4 weeks now, and it's starting to test me, as a “single” male I don't qualify for any tax credits or whatever it's called nowadays

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By *i 1 Get 1 FreeCouple (MM) over a year ago

birmingham

"where next months rent money is comin from remains a great mystery!! x

This is a question

does the state not pay your rent?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

i know its so bloody demoralising when you seeking work against another 2.5 million people it really is an employers market every job iv applied for is the minimum wage and a few yrs ago it would have been £8/9 per hr qualifications that are no use because they make me over qualified!

dont give up though there might just be somethin out there for you!xx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"where next months rent money is comin from remains a great mystery!! x

This is a question

does the state not pay your rent? "

nope! because im a student and the amount i recieve through csa for kiddo cancels out any benefit entitlement even though im 700 quid a month down because of student loan finishin until new term!

il no be stuck though where there a will there is a way! xx

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By *i 1 Get 1 FreeCouple (MM) over a year ago

birmingham

"where next months rent money is comin from remains a great mystery!! x

This is a question

does the state not pay your rent?

nope! because im a student and the amount i recieve through csa for kiddo cancels out any benefit entitlement even though im 700 quid a month down because of student loan finishin until new term!

il no be stuck though where there a will there is a way! xx

awww, thanks for answering and being honest

you really do deserve one!

mwahhhhh lol xxx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ooohh I luba students lol xx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

no problem! its the usual story try and make things better for yourself but you gotta jump hurdles!

anyway they cant evict a lone parent for being a month behind on rent it would be a national scandal!! and im sure somethin will come up even if it the crappiest job in the world it will do as long as i can put a roof over our heads and some grub on the table im not bothered! xx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Oops I meant ta say I luvs students lol this phones spell checks crap it puts words in ya mouth lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Oops I meant ta say I luvs students lol this phones spell checks crap it puts words in ya mouth lol

i wondered!! thought u ran about with a tube of ky jelly lubin up students lol!!! xx

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By *i 1 Get 1 FreeCouple (MM) over a year ago

birmingham

"it puts words in ya mouth lol

Only words!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Oops I meant ta say I luvs students lol this phones spell checks crap it puts words in ya mouth lol

i wondered!! thought u ran about with a tube of ky jelly lubin up students lol!!! xx

What a feckin good idea lol xx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Oops I meant ta say I luvs students lol this phones spell checks crap it puts words in ya mouth lol

i wondered!! thought u ran about with a tube of ky jelly lubin up students lol!!! xx

What a feckin good idea lol xx

lol!!!!!!! dont got this image of you runnin about campus's with a big water pistol filled with lube!!!!!! xxx

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By *exeteraWoman over a year ago

Bridgend

"no problem! its the usual story try and make things better for yourself but you gotta jump hurdles!

It can be really difficult trying to just get by. I recently lost my job and currently get ESA as I'm not well enough to work at the moment. I get £38 per week ESA because I receive £28 IIB and £76 per week paid towards my mortgage each week, this still leaves me having to try to find £370 each month shortfall with the mortgage. I have a 17 yr old daughter I also have to support with the money I get, so it's not I cana ssure you all rosy with benefits.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I have to admit that I haven't really been paying much attention to the Greek crisis but I've just been reading about it and all I can say is thank God we didn't go into the Euro. We can stay on the sidelines and watch what happens without chipping in many billions we simply don't have but if Clegg has his way he'll take us in the moment he gets power. So thank God he won't be PM on Friday too.

With Spain, Portugal and Ireland looking equally dodgy we should demand that a referendum is held before any moves to swap Sterling for the Euro. But thankfully, Cameron has pledged that we will never give up our currency while he is Prime Minister, and whether you like the guy or not, you have to agree that we're better off as we are.

PHEW!

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By *exeteraWoman over a year ago

Bridgend

"I have to admit that I haven't really been paying much attention to the Greek crisis but I've just been reading about it and all I can say is thank God we didn't go into the Euro. We can stay on the sidelines and watch what happens without chipping in many billions we simply don't have but if Clegg has his way he'll take us in the moment he gets power. So thank God he won't be PM on Friday too.

PHEW!"

Well let's hope we're not caught in the fallout. I think the rescue package was around £110 billion and the Greeks will have to take pay cuts etc. I don't envy them, hope all bodes well for us.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

PHEW!

Well let's hope we're not caught in the fallout. I think the rescue package was around £110 billion and the Greeks will have to take pay cuts etc. I don't envy them, hope all bodes well for us. "

There appears to be a general concensus that Greece will default on paying it back and that Germany, who contributed £20bn alone, will suffer most but as you say, the fallout will be felt right across Europe including British business who trade heavily within the Eurozone. It's looking pretty shitty for all of Europe but I'm glad we only have limited exposure to it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The seven dwarfs always left to go work in the mine early each morning.

As always, Snow White stayed home doing her chores.

As lunchtime approached, she would prepare their lunch and carry it to the mine.

One day as she arrived at the mine with the lunch, she saw that there had been a cave-in. Tearfully, and fearing the worst, Snow White began calling out, hoping against hope that the dwarfs had somehow survived.

'Hello...Hello!' she shouted. 'Can you hear me?'

There was no answer. Losing hope, Snow White again shouted, 'Hello! Is anyone down there?'

Just as she was about to give up hope, she heard a faint voice from deep within the mine, singing; 'Vote for GORDON BROWN, vote for GORDON BROWN'

Snow White fell to her knees and prayed, 'Oh, thank you, God!........ At least Dopey is still alive.'

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

PMSL .. You're gonna nark off all the Reds on here y'know.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

well wishy....can't let you keep doing it all by yourself

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By *exeteraWoman over a year ago

Bridgend

" The seven dwarfs always left to go work in the mine early each morning.

As always, Snow White stayed home doing her chores.

As lunchtime approached, she would prepare their lunch and carry it to the mine.

'Hello...Hello!' she shouted. 'Can you hear me?'

There was no answer. Losing hope, Snow White again shouted, 'Hello! Is anyone down there?'

Just as she was about to give up hope, she heard a faint voice from deep within the mine, singing; 'Vote for GORDON BROWN, vote for GORDON BROWN'

Snow White fell to her knees and prayed, 'Oh, thank you, God!........ At least Dopey is still alive.'

lol stu, my version had cam the ham as Dopey

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"well wishy....can't let you keep doing it all by yourself

Hey, gotta keep up appearances ain't I!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"well wishy....can't let you keep doing it all by yourself

Tut tut Stu inciting riots is not on lol xx

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

PHEW!"

Actually, and I think you already know this Wishy, Clegg said that should the economic situation be right in the future that he would hold a referendum about whether the UK should enter the Euro single currency.....

So not exactly as you make out

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"no problem! its the usual story try and make things better for yourself but you gotta jump hurdles!

emm im not goin to be claiming benefits as i cant claim??

as i said i will find a way by hook or crook to make sure my rent is paid somehow without state assistance that i cant get as im not actually unemployed x

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

PHEW!

So not exactly as you make out"

If Clegg, should he gain power, ever feels we need a referendum about whether to switch currencies, he'll be doing it because he wants to go in and like the Irish, he'll keep calling for a refendum until he gets the 'Yes' result he's looking for.

If he made it part of LibDem policy that any referendum would full and final then I might believe him, or not. I don't trust referendums in a nutshell.

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

There could well be a time in the future that failure to join the Euro would be disasterous, granted this could be years off and maybe never....but should the time come when the scales of currency are tipping ridiculously in favour of the Euro then a referendum would surely be offered up by ANY party in power?

Even Cameron would be bloody stupid to rule it out completely.

And as regards Clegg, there is no evidence to suggest that he would act as Eire did and not take a referendum 'No' vote as final.

I don't think Clegg could be any clearer on the Euro in his writings on the matter. I can't see anywhere that he suggests other than offering a referendum.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

If he accepts a 'No' vote then fair enough, and I fully accept that there may come a time when staying out of the Euro would be worse than joining it. All I hope is that when the time comes we are told the truth of it... But, if that scenario does come to pass and the people still say 'No' what would the govt do if they know that a 'No' vote would be disastrous. Do you see what I'm getting at?

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

Yes I know exactly what you mean, would ANY government be right in taking a referendum result as the final word on the matter even if it meant the Pound spiralling downwards out of control?

Realistically it could result in hyperinflation in the economy, with pound coins worth pennies as the worse scenario.

As the party that forms any government is ultimately responsible for the financial well being of the UK, then ultimately they are given a remit by the electorate to do everything in their power to keep the economy stable and safe.

So joining the Euro under emergency measures is well within the power of any party that forms a UK government.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

When you analyse it like that it's quite scarey to realise that a government can pretty much do what it wants under the 'emergency measures' umbrella.

I do believe that adopting the Euro over here is inevitable, we can't escape it and trying to hang onto Sterling seems a bit Little Britain sometimes but having said that, looking at Greece at the moment I'm glad we haven't done it yet.

(I know that sounds contradictory to my earlier views but please don't confuse desire with practicality - I WANT us to retain Sterling but I realise that we won't.)

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

I still haven't made my mind up about the Euro, I do know that it costs me a lot of money importing lots of chocolate from Europe and us not being part of the currency, but still not sure if it would be good for the country in general.

At this moment in time it is a godsend that we are not in the Eurozone as regards bailing our Greece and maybe Portugal within the next couple of months.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Wasn't there a case for running a dual currency a few years back? I seem to remember that being proposed but I never really read up on it too much as I was against the Euro anyway. What ramifications would that have?

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By *exeteraWoman over a year ago

Bridgend

Well we're almost there, looks like we may have a hung parliament. I think that presents lots of positives though, unlike the negativity being promoted in the press.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

The BBC have done a heirarchal tree on what happens in a hung parliament.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8660699.stm

Much easier than reading paragraph after paragraph of text that tries to explain what happens.

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By *exeteraWoman over a year ago

Bridgend

"The BBC have done a heirarchal tree on what happens in a hung parliament.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8660699.stm

Much easier than reading paragraph after paragraph of text that tries to explain what happens. "

This may help:

The Positive Case

It’s important to put forward the positive case for a hung parliament, too. Here are some of the key reasons why a hung parliament could be a good thing.

1. A hung parliament means more representative government.

Our first-past-the-post voting system means that at the moment we have a government that only won 35% of the vote. A hung, or balanced Parliament will better represent what the voters want, and will force MPs to the more thoughtful of and responsive to public opinion.

2. A hung parliament could mean reform of the voting system.

As a condition of forming part of the governing coalition, the Liberal Democrats could demand a reform of our voting system – like introducing proportional representation. This means that a hung parliament could result in vital changes to make our voting system fairer.

3. A hung parliament means people getting interested about politics again.

A parliament where there is real debate on real issues, where power is still ‘up for grabs’, will encourage people to get involved in the political process, because they feel that they can have a say in parliamentary decisions. If one party simply ‘wins’ and starts running the country on its own, many people will feel that their voices are not being heard, and they will lose interest.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

PR has been a long-held policy of the Libdems, and Labour have now come out in favour of it too. Only the Conservatives want to keep the first-past-the-post system but I suspect that the results tomorrow night may force them to rethink this. I can see a slender Tory or Labour lead but no majority, which will leave Brown in situ to try and form either a coalition or a minority government dependant on whether Labour have the most seats or not (coalition with most seats, minority govt if they have less than the Tories). Cameron could find himself frozen out even if the Tories get the larger % of votes.

The only fly in the ointment for Brown is that Clegg has stated publicly that he will not work with him, which could let Cameron in.

I don't think the country would stand for another PM who hasn't faced the electorate, and with it being a hung parliament I wouldn't fancy Labour's chances if they change their leader then call another election.

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By *exeteraWoman over a year ago

Bridgend

It's proving very difficult to call, it'll be a very late night for me as I'll be at our local count. The last time I didn't get home until 6am and they still hadn't finished. I hate re-counts, they take soooooo long

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I'll be watching through the night, posting in here with Craig as I know he'll be watching too. Which count are you at? Sunderland South have called first for the last four elections. I guess you won't be beating them with a 6am finish lol.

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By *exeteraWoman over a year ago

Bridgend

I'll be at the counts for the Bridgend and the Ogmore constituencies. Will be taking a lappy and my dongle to keep up to date with the rest of the country lol.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We'll definately be watching. I don't have to be at work until 10:30 on Friday so can stand a late night

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By *atisfy janeWoman over a year ago

Torquay

I won't be watching.....I'll be shagging with a bit of luck

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"I won't be watching.....I'll be shagging with a bit of luck"

While the rest of us are getting fucked by the Libdems lol

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