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The Nordic Model
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
Woman's Hour has been running a series looking at prostitution and whether Britain should adopt the Nordic Model.
At present buying and selling sex are not illegal in this country. Pimping, soliciting and coercion are illegal.
The Nordic Model is that the selling of sex remains legal but the purchase becomes illegal.
Other countries (Canada and France) are also discussing this. What do you think?
Listen to the Woman's Hour pieces for some interesting points of view.
PLEASE, do not discuss any suspected plying of trade on here or the debate will be closed and disappear. |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Prostitution was perfectly legal in ancient Rome. There have been prostitutes ever since, legal or not. Seems like a classic example of supply and demand. "
I agree it won't go away but this seems to come from the view that prostitutes, male and female, are forced into selling their bodies one way or another.
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"Prostitution was perfectly legal in ancient Rome. There have been prostitutes ever since, legal or not. Seems like a classic example of supply and demand.
I agree it won't go away but this seems to come from the view that prostitutes, male and female, are forced into selling their bodies one way or another.
That's not my view. Obviously there is coercion these days but not always. There would be less issues if prostitution were legalized. It is in some states in the USA and abroad.
"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
At present buying and selling sex are not illegal in this country. Pimping, soliciting and coercion are illegal.
"
If the latter is illegal how is the former possible?...  |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"
At present buying and selling sex are not illegal in this country. Pimping, soliciting and coercion are illegal.
If the latter is illegal how is the former possible?... "
There's a conundrum. You and I can make an arrangement for either me to pay you or you to pay me. That's not illegal. If I seek you out and ask you to pay me then that is soliciting and I can be done for that but not for the sex act.
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The main problem is that if it is the slavery angle. If it all became above board, medical checks taxed etc it might work and anything that stopped human trafficking can only be a step in the right direction. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
At present buying and selling sex are not illegal in this country. Pimping, soliciting and coercion are illegal.
If the latter is illegal how is the former possible?...
There's a conundrum. You and I can make an arrangement for either me to pay you or you to pay me. That's not illegal. If I seek you out and ask you to pay me then that is soliciting and I can be done for that but not for the sex act.
"
But if I gave you the money..even though you have illegally solicited it, even though I am not breaking the law by "buying" it, I would be an accessory to crime, whereby the crime isn't actually a crime because I'm allowed to buy it.
So can I be prosecuted or not?...
DISCLAIMER: I have never paid for sex, just purely speculating.  |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"The main problem is that if it is the slavery angle. If it all became above board, medical checks taxed etc it might work and anything that stopped human trafficking can only be a step in the right direction."
I'm not sure what would stop trafficking. There was one interview with a sex worker who said she was worth more at 15 than she was at 18 and more at 18 than she was now at 22.
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"
At present buying and selling sex are not illegal in this country. Pimping, soliciting and coercion are illegal.
If the latter is illegal how is the former possible?...
There's a conundrum. You and I can make an arrangement for either me to pay you or you to pay me. That's not illegal. If I seek you out and ask you to pay me then that is soliciting and I can be done for that but not for the sex act.
But if I gave you the money..even though you have illegally solicited it, even though I am not breaking the law by "buying" it, I would be an accessory to crime, whereby the crime isn't actually a crime because I'm allowed to buy it.
So can I be prosecuted or not?...
DISCLAIMER: I have never paid for sex, just purely speculating. "
You wouldn't be prosecuted, unless we moved to the Nordic Model in which case I would be immune from prosecution and would you get done.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
At present buying and selling sex are not illegal in this country. Pimping, soliciting and coercion are illegal.
The Nordic Model is that the selling of sex remains legal but the purchase becomes illegal.
"
These two models look identical to me though lickety?... |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"
At present buying and selling sex are not illegal in this country. Pimping, soliciting and coercion are illegal.
The Nordic Model is that the selling of sex remains legal but the purchase becomes illegal.
These two models look identical to me though lickety?..."
The difference is that the purchaser is the only guilty party under the Nordic Model. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
At present buying and selling sex are not illegal in this country. Pimping, soliciting and coercion are illegal.
The Nordic Model is that the selling of sex remains legal but the purchase becomes illegal.
These two models look identical to me though lickety?...
The difference is that the purchaser is the only guilty party under the Nordic Model."
How very dare you make it so obvious how thick I am  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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To get round that conundrum, i recall the ex doing it on a "donation" basis.
At the end of the night she had £3.05.
I said who gave you the 5p.
They all did, she replied. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Mr replying. Listened to r4 some heartbreaking stories of how some of the ladies/ girls ended up being prostitutes very sad. The girl who had been used and trafficked was shocking and the irish lady's story very harrowing stuff. As a man it makes me ashamed that some men treat women this way. The Nordic model does have it's merits but some valid points against raised on the show. |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Mr replying. Listened to r4 some heartbreaking stories of how some of the ladies/ girls ended up being prostitutes very sad. The girl who had been used and trafficked was shocking and the irish lady's story very harrowing stuff. As a man it makes me ashamed that some men treat women this way. The Nordic model does have it's merits but some valid points against raised on the show."
The comments about men saying they were too ugly to fuck so turned them over and fucked them doggy made me shout at the radio.
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"Mr replying. Listened to r4 some heartbreaking stories of how some of the ladies/ girls ended up being prostitutes very sad. The girl who had been used and trafficked was shocking and the irish lady's story very harrowing stuff. As a man it makes me ashamed that some men treat women this way. The Nordic model does have it's merits but some valid points against raised on the show.
The comments about men saying they were too ugly to fuck so turned them over and fucked them doggy made me shout at the radio.
"
I'd probably get at least 50% less sex if that wasn't an option.  |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Mr replying. Listened to r4 some heartbreaking stories of how some of the ladies/ girls ended up being prostitutes very sad. The girl who had been used and trafficked was shocking and the irish lady's story very harrowing stuff. As a man it makes me ashamed that some men treat women this way. The Nordic model does have it's merits but some valid points against raised on the show.
The comments about men saying they were too ugly to fuck so turned them over and fucked them doggy made me shout at the radio.
I'd probably get at least 50% less sex if that wasn't an option. "
Are you flipped over because people find you too ugly but want to fuck as they have paid? I don't think so somehow. |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"I think it has been an interesting series of programmes. I'm not sure what the answer is.  "
Listening to the men today made me think about the reasons men use prostitutes. They haven't had women who use prostitutes on though. There must be some.
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"Destroy the demand? For sex?!
Never going to happen.if it becomes illegal to buy sex that would reduce demand because of the deterrent factor"
The demand would still be there. It's not that easy to just switch off physical urges.
One risk is that other, less acceptable methods, of getting sex would occur more frequently.
Think prohibition. Did people stop wanting to drink? |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"Mr replying. Listened to r4 some heartbreaking stories of how some of the ladies/ girls ended up being prostitutes very sad. The girl who had been used and trafficked was shocking and the irish lady's story very harrowing stuff. As a man it makes me ashamed that some men treat women this way. The Nordic model does have it's merits but some valid points against raised on the show.
The comments about men saying they were too ugly to fuck so turned them over and fucked them doggy made me shout at the radio.
I'd probably get at least 50% less sex if that wasn't an option.
Are you flipped over because people find you too ugly but want to fuck as they have paid? I don't think so somehow."
No, there's no payment involved.
I suppose I could always borrow Ryan's bag... |
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"The main problem is that if it is the slavery angle. If it all became above board, medical checks taxed etc it might work and anything that stopped human trafficking can only be a step in the right direction.
I'm not sure what would stop trafficking. There was one interview with a sex worker who said she was worth more at 15 than she was at 18 and more at 18 than she was now at 22.
"
But taking from out of the shadows can only help reduce the number |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"The main problem is that if it is the slavery angle. If it all became above board, medical checks taxed etc it might work and anything that stopped human trafficking can only be a step in the right direction.
I'm not sure what would stop trafficking. There was one interview with a sex worker who said she was worth more at 15 than she was at 18 and more at 18 than she was now at 22.
But taking from out of the shadows can only help reduce the number"
That's a valid point but that may lead to more control and coercion for the prostitutes involved. Heaven forfend that someone isn't able to meet their daily targets or tries to clock off when their shift ends in the middle of a job.
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"The main problem is that if it is the slavery angle. If it all became above board, medical checks taxed etc it might work and anything that stopped human trafficking can only be a step in the right direction.
I'm not sure what would stop trafficking. There was one interview with a sex worker who said she was worth more at 15 than she was at 18 and more at 18 than she was now at 22.
But taking from out of the shadows can only help reduce the number
That's a valid point but that may lead to more control and coercion for the prostitutes involved. Heaven forfend that someone isn't able to meet their daily targets or tries to clock off when their shift ends in the middle of a job.
"
I read Dolores French's book, Working, many many years ago. She's got some strong opinions on how the sex industry should be regulated.
It's an interesting book. |
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"The main problem is that if it is the slavery angle. If it all became above board, medical checks taxed etc it might work and anything that stopped human trafficking can only be a step in the right direction.
I'm not sure what would stop trafficking. There was one interview with a sex worker who said she was worth more at 15 than she was at 18 and more at 18 than she was now at 22.
But taking from out of the shadows can only help reduce the number
That's a valid point but that may lead to more control and coercion for the prostitutes involved. Heaven forfend that someone isn't able to meet their daily targets or tries to clock off when their shift ends in the middle of a job.
"
Not saying it is a prefect idea but after all it is not called one of the oldest trades for nothing. If it became legal it might just be able to take one step away from all the other crimes that are associated with it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Woman's Hour has been running a series looking at prostitution and whether Britain should adopt the Nordic Model.
At present buying and selling sex are not illegal in this country. Pimping, soliciting and coercion are illegal.
The Nordic Model is that the selling of sex remains legal but the purchase becomes illegal.
Other countries (Canada and France) are also discussing this. What do you think?
Listen to the Woman's Hour pieces for some interesting points of view.
PLEASE, do not discuss any suspected plying of trade on here or the debate will be closed and disappear."
I think in Portugal prostitution is legal, but it's illegal for a third party to gain from it.
That seems a fairly sensible way of doing it. |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Woman's Hour has been running a series looking at prostitution and whether Britain should adopt the Nordic Model.
At present buying and selling sex are not illegal in this country. Pimping, soliciting and coercion are illegal.
The Nordic Model is that the selling of sex remains legal but the purchase becomes illegal.
Other countries (Canada and France) are also discussing this. What do you think?
Listen to the Woman's Hour pieces for some interesting points of view.
PLEASE, do not discuss any suspected plying of trade on here or the debate will be closed and disappear.
I think in Portugal prostitution is legal, but it's illegal for a third party to gain from it.
That seems a fairly sensible way of doing it. "
Does that include soliciting? It's not legal here for a third party to gain but buying and selling are legal.
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By *eno_2004Man
over a year ago
Bishops Stortford |
The Nordic model is hypocritical to say the least, how can a product be legal and it's consumption illegal. All this does is drive the sex trade under ground where there will be no choice but to use pimping to offer protection against bad john's. Which then opens the door to all sorts
Why can't we have what the Netherlands do, it's safe and above all perfectly legal and discreet. |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"The Nordic model is hypocritical to say the least, how can a product be legal and it's consumption illegal. All this does is drive the sex trade under ground where there will be no choice but to use pimping to offer protection against bad john's. Which then opens the door to all sorts
Why can't we have what the Netherlands do, it's safe and above all perfectly legal and discreet."
I think the Brits rankle against the shop front idea. Plus local authorities refusing permission would still drive it underground to some extent.
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"The Nordic model is hypocritical to say the least, how can a product be legal and it's consumption illegal. All this does is drive the sex trade under ground where there will be no choice but to use pimping to offer protection against bad john's. Which then opens the door to all sorts
Why can't we have what the Netherlands do, it's safe and above all perfectly legal and discreet."
Likewise, how can offering something for sale be illegal when buying it is legal?
We're in a society largely run by men for men though so of course the largely male buyers won't take the rap for it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Why the Nordic model ? Look at Switzerland a conservative country where they made it legal but the "ladies" need to be checked every 2nd week by a doctor, play taxes, but in case of "out of work" receive benefits. The whole "trade" is regulated and no issues at all and it is "clean" as the girls need a license to be in trade. This way the girls are protected to a high degree, men get what they want less sexual harassment of other women...
The Nordic way makes it illegal and therefore the men seeking the "kick" will just in time go "mad" and do something daft.... Look at France they are declaring it illegal and the brothels in Germany on boarder are getting very big ... |
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By *eno_2004Man
over a year ago
Bishops Stortford |
"The Nordic model is hypocritical to say the least, how can a product be legal and it's consumption illegal. All this does is drive the sex trade under ground where there will be no choice but to use pimping to offer protection against bad john's. Which then opens the door to all sorts
Why can't we have what the Netherlands do, it's safe and above all perfectly legal and discreet.
I think the Brits rankle against the shop front idea. Plus local authorities refusing permission would still drive it underground to some extent.
"
I agree as I don't see shop fronts in England ever being allowed but for the practise to become legal, monitored and text generating is no bad thing especially when it's clear there is a market and a supply |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Why the Nordic model ? Look at Switzerland a conservative country where they made it legal but the "ladies" need to be checked every 2nd week by a doctor, play taxes, but in case of "out of work" receive benefits. The whole "trade" is regulated and no issues at all and it is "clean" as the girls need a license to be in trade. This way the girls are protected to a high degree, men get what they want less sexual harassment of other women...
The Nordic way makes it illegal and therefore the men seeking the "kick" will just in time go "mad" and do something daft.... Look at France they are declaring it illegal and the brothels in Germany on boarder are getting very big ... "
The political debate is on Woman's Hour now. The Swiss model is not being discussed. |
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"
At present buying and selling sex are not illegal in this country. Pimping, soliciting and coercion are illegal.
If the latter is illegal how is the former possible?...
There's a conundrum. You and I can make an arrangement for either me to pay you or you to pay me. That's not illegal. If I seek you out and ask you to pay me then that is soliciting and I can be done for that but not for the sex act.
But if I gave you the money..even though you have illegally solicited it, even though I am not breaking the law by "buying" it, I would be an accessory to crime, whereby the crime isn't actually a crime because I'm allowed to buy it.
So can I be prosecuted or not?...
DISCLAIMER: I have never paid for sex, just purely speculating.
You wouldn't be prosecuted, unless we moved to the Nordic Model in which case I would be immune from prosecution and would you get done.
"
Did they discuss the observable benefits of this model? |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"They are asking for contributions from women who have bought sex and for contributions on other models. New Zealand has been mentioned.
It has been an interesting debate so far.
"
I saw a documentary about a male "escort" (prostitute in his case) in Australia once. I was sad I didn't live in Australia. I so would have paid for it with him. |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"
At present buying and selling sex are not illegal in this country. Pimping, soliciting and coercion are illegal.
If the latter is illegal how is the former possible?...
There's a conundrum. You and I can make an arrangement for either me to pay you or you to pay me. That's not illegal. If I seek you out and ask you to pay me then that is soliciting and I can be done for that but not for the sex act.
But if I gave you the money..even though you have illegally solicited it, even though I am not breaking the law by "buying" it, I would be an accessory to crime, whereby the crime isn't actually a crime because I'm allowed to buy it.
So can I be prosecuted or not?...
DISCLAIMER: I have never paid for sex, just purely speculating.
You wouldn't be prosecuted, unless we moved to the Nordic Model in which case I would be immune from prosecution and would you get done.
Did they discuss the observable benefits of this model?"
There appears to be a lowering of street prostitution but there were arguments presented that the women were no safer.
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"They are asking for contributions from women who have bought sex and for contributions on other models. New Zealand has been mentioned.
It has been an interesting debate so far.
I saw a documentary about a male "escort" (prostitute in his case) in Australia once. I was sad I didn't live in Australia. I so would have paid for it with him."
I can't think of anyone with whom I would enter that transactional level. That said, I pay for sex all the time in big and small ways. |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
"They are asking for contributions from women who have bought sex and for contributions on other models. New Zealand has been mentioned.
It has been an interesting debate so far.
I saw a documentary about a male "escort" (prostitute in his case) in Australia once. I was sad I didn't live in Australia. I so would have paid for it with him.
I can't think of anyone with whom I would enter that transactional level. That said, I pay for sex all the time in big and small ways."
This guy had mad skillz  |
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"I'd like to see it decriminalised and those working in the provision of sexual services being better protected."
If prostitution was made into a perfectly legal job, where they can pay tax and NI, and be regularly tested and protected from predatory people, with regular medical checks etc, then I feel it would significantly reduce the criminality surrounding it, drugs, slavery etc. |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
I've considered paying for it once or twice, though not done so.
I don't see why there should be stigma attached to it. It's like buying and selling any other service as far as I'm concerned. |
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By *icketysplits OP Woman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"I've considered paying for it once or twice, though not done so.
I don't see why there should be stigma attached to it. It's like buying and selling any other service as far as I'm concerned."
That was one of the arguments put forward. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"I'd like to see it decriminalised and those working in the provision of sexual services being better protected.
If prostitution was made into a perfectly legal job, where they can pay tax and NI, and be regularly tested and protected from predatory people, with regular medical checks etc, then I feel it would significantly reduce the criminality surrounding it, drugs, slavery etc."
Would it?
There's perfectly good laws about employing people, paying tax and NI, enforcing Health and Safety legislation etc yet there's still people trafficking. |
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