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debate 2 - The Empire Strikes Back
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
Okay... so after debate 1... what are you looking to in debate 2? have to say i am actually looking forward to hearing what they say...
so bearing in mind tonight is suppose to be about foreign issues... what would you like to ask if you had the chance... and what way do you think it will go?
I'd love to ask what they would kind of relationship they would like with the US (me being selfish!) and 3rd world aid issues.....
anyway lets see how clegg, brown and cameron cope with tonight |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Too serious for this place Fabio. Why not make up something really contentious and controversial, say an MP has actually said these things - then sit back and watch the thread grow. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Someone has put too much blusher on Dave
How funny- i wanna seeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"
imagine a very ugly aunt sally with plums up her arse and your close!! xx  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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there been some coachin goin on for this wk there is more eye contact and body language more relaxed but cleggy still wipin the floor methinks!!
still no sure about european union i really need to look into it more! x |
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"thank christ i thought there was somethin wrong with my telly!!!
im enjoyin the euro debate as im no sure if we should be in or out of it! x"
Only problem with Europe is instead of leading the way we have to be dragged along at the back of the pack! As for leaving over 40% of trade goes to and 60% of our wealth is generated due EU membership, if we left the EU it would put in the region of 3 to 5 million out of work overnight and destroy this country. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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but why should we lead the way?? there is more than us in europe??
if im right a lot of fundin about here comes from european funds for social deprivation etc i remember fillin forms in when i was youth worker xx |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
Forum Mod |
Its all too staged to me,they are all saying what they think we want to hear,but this side of the election they'll say anything at all
If they put words into action after the election is another thing
OMG! im doing it again! posting on a political thread,election fever is catching
Does anyone know if they're doing anymore of these debates I would be really interested in any debate about the NHS |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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was a wee bit about nhs last wk but no sure if there goin to be a full debate about it!
trident really buggin me because 10000 scottish jobs are involved with it but on the other side im no really in favour of nuclear weapons x |
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Its all too staged to me,they are all saying what they think we want to hear,but this side of the election they'll say anything at all
If they put words into action after the election is another thing
OMG! im doing it again! posting on a political thread,election fever is catching
Does anyone know if they're doing anymore of these debates I would be really interested in any debate about the NHS"
one more next thursday hun... bbc1 , its suppose to be on the economy.... david dimbleby will chair... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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ohh cameron insulated his home!! wonder how much that cost cause it sure as shit wont be a 2 bedroom ex local authority property lol!!!
clegg admits he doesnt do enough for the green cause brown goin for the green vote methinks!! xx |
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"but why should we lead the way?? there is more than us in europe??
if im right a lot of fundin about here comes from european funds for social deprivation etc i remember fillin forms in when i was youth worker xx"
While we hang back at every advance we have no say in how it is set up and run. Clasic example is the euro, when we eventually join we will have to abide by all the rules and regs that have been put in place over the last 9 years. And rather than joining at the start when a £ would have got us 1.6 to 1.8 euros, we will be forced to accept less than 1Eu to the £. My guess is the little brittons will hold out till round £2 to 1Eu., but in the mean time the Bankers get to make their 5% on all the trade into the euro zone (and who own and run the banks?)  |
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"what a crackin question about the pope!! excellent!!! "
stand away from the popebomb and watch them all squirm... just the fact that clegg said he wasn't a man of faith almost secured my vote... lol |
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By *ig badMan
over a year ago
Up North :-) |
"what a crackin question about the pope!! excellent!!!
stand away from the popebomb and watch them all squirm... just the fact that clegg said he wasn't a man of faith almost secured my vote... lol"
Bet some politicians arses are twitching tonight lol |
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By *ebzStarWoman
over a year ago
Notting |
"what a crackin question about the pope!! excellent!!!
stand away from the popebomb and watch them all squirm... just the fact that clegg said he wasn't a man of faith almost secured my vote... lol
Bet some politicians arses are twitching tonight lol "
I love a twitchy arse  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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cameron rememberin names tonite!!!
gordon seems to be bouncin back a bit seems more confident this wk?
bit of a repetitive mantra from cameron!
clegg still goin strong though!
but no mention of house of lords reform from cameron??old boys network lives on! x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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one more chorus of do the right thing from cameron my foot goin through the tv!!
the right thing the nuclear married family!!
oh there another year on to retirement age!! xx |
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"good point from clegg about social care!! and the heatin allowance extended to ill and disabled x"
did you notice cameron told the 84 yr old nana that help would start.....in 2016....
only 5 yrs to cling on then!!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Why the fuck have Sky put that stupid bloody scrolling text along the bottom of the screen. It is distracting.
And clegg's just admitted to being the first faithless leader in European politics, that's gonna cost him some votes I think. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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yeah bet she goin to hold on now just to get it!!
cameron witterin about direct care payments i dont know if england got them i know scotland has!
no mention of carers allowance though! xx |
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Why the fuck have Sky put that stupid bloody scrolling text along the bottom of the screen. It is distracting.
And clegg's just admitted to being the first faithless leader in European politics, that's gonna cost him some votes I think. "
oooh.. i don't know about that... the agnostics out there would love that.... heck us "twice a year" catholics are probably wavering.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Why the fuck have Sky put that stupid bloody scrolling text along the bottom of the screen. It is distracting.
And clegg's just admitted to being the first faithless leader in European politics, that's gonna cost him some votes I think.
oooh.. i don't know about that... the agnostics out there would love that.... heck us "twice a year" catholics are probably wavering.... "
An American politician admitting to being faithless would be committing political suicide. People don't like having their faith questuioned and a faithless politician does just that. I'm faithless too and admire the guy for being honest about it but I do think those who are pious will be doubting him. |
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
ooooh... the murdochs are going to hate this... I think this is another slam dunk victory for Clegg.......
watch for news corp to go on full attack mode tomorrow..... |
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By *ig badMan
over a year ago
Up North :-) |
"ooooh... the murdochs are going to hate this... I think this is another slam dunk victory for Clegg.......
watch for news corp to go on full attack mode tomorrow....."
The more they try and blacken Clegg the more i lean towards him. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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i think clegg done well cameron better than last week and brown also done a lot better but clegg wins again!
sun only fit for hamsters cage anyway lol xx |
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By *ig badMan
over a year ago
Up North :-) |
"i think clegg done well cameron better than last week and brown also done a lot better but clegg wins again!
sun only fit for hamsters cage anyway lol xx"
My hamster would chuck it out. Its a hi brow Times hamster  |
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
early results in....
the yougov/sun poll gave it to Cameron... Clegg 2nd, Brown 3rd
the Comres/ITV poll gave it to Clegg.. Cameron and Brown tied for 2nd...
next weeks could be a blockbuster.... |
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By *ig badMan
over a year ago
Up North :-) |
"early results in....
the yougov/sun poll gave it to Cameron... Clegg 2nd, Brown 3rd
the Comres/ITV poll gave it to Clegg.. Cameron and Brown tied for 2nd...
next weeks could be a blockbuster...."
Bit of ganging up on Clegg for me and i got the opp Cameron was worried he wasn't going to be moving house soon! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yeah u know wot??
I BLOODY LOVE STAR WARS! used to enjoy it as i kid,,,love that film empire strikes back really good film of the 80s!!
also love star wars n return of the jedi.
loved them prequals too! lol lol  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Yeah i think the moto should be----"Keep crime down"!!! The fab swingers bosses should be policeman/policeladys or are they?? lol lol
Fab swingers bosses for PM!! |
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By *ig badMan
over a year ago
Up North :-) |
"Yeah i think the moto should be----"Keep crime down"!!! The fab swingers bosses should be policeman/policeladys or are they?? lol lol
Fab swingers bosses for PM!! "
He he he there area few bobbies on here! Met a right nice lady one a bit back |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think a lot of the 'fresh new face' of Clegg has waned a bit and now he sounds much like the other two. That will cost a few points and he isn't 51% in the lead like last week.
Brown had a better debate than last week and it was on one of his strengths which is number crunching but Cameron smashed him out of the park on irregularities in Labour election leafletting.
Of the three, I'd say Brown last for certain and I'd give Cameron a slight edge over Clegg for the simple fact that Cameron is at his best when he shoots from the hip and he'd already said he was going to throw the script out and answer how his heart dictated. |
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By *abio OP Man
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"I think a lot of the 'fresh new face' of Clegg has waned a bit and now he sounds much like the other two. That will cost a few points and he isn't 51% in the lead like last week.
Brown had a better debate than last week and it was on one of his strengths which is number crunching but Cameron smashed him out of the park on irregularities in Labour election leafletting.
Of the three, I'd say Brown last for certain and I'd give Cameron a slight edge over Clegg for the simple fact that Cameron is at his best when he shoots from the hip and he'd already said he was going to throw the script out and answer how his heart dictated."
actually.. you come at this from a slighty different viewpoint than me... for me i was interested in two things..
1) Could Brown and especially Cameron raise there game? if i was being honest... yes they were both better than last week.....
2) Could Clegg maintain the momentum... the answer again for me was yes.. I think he was as good as last week, and the reason I think you aren't seeing the 51% like last week is that the other two were better.... Cameron learning Cleggs tricks and looking down the camera for example....
Clegg hit the ground running last week and the others are having to catch up....
who do i think won... I still think Clegg did enough, but it was a lot closer than it was last week....
last two polls in... Times had Clegg and Cameron even, Brown 3rd... another had Clegg shading it from Cameron with brown last...
I think it sets up next weeks perfectly..... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Next week will be crucial and the election won or lost on it. These debates are fast becoming the only reliable way of seeing the main three leaders thinking on the spot, and people will judge them on it, even though the questions are scripted and they have a 76-point plan to follow. lol |
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By *ig badMan
over a year ago
Up North :-) |
"Next week will be crucial and the election won or lost on it. These debates are fast becoming the only reliable way of seeing the main three leaders thinking on the spot, and people will judge them on it, even though the questions are scripted and they have a 76-point plan to follow. lol "
I think they should do the last one in fancy dress! Or all three come on dressed as clowns to improve the visual effect! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"cameron got a good point about us all takin more responsibilty for children etc x"
Gordon Brown took all the responsibilty away from us as parents no dicipline in homes and schools. And has turned us in a nanny state. Bought in the smoking ban amongst other things |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Next week will be crucial and the election won or lost on it. These debates are fast becoming the only reliable way of seeing the main three leaders thinking on the spot, and people will judge them on it, even though the questions are scripted and they have a 76-point plan to follow. lol
I think they should do the last one in fancy dress! Or all three come on dressed as clowns to improve the visual effect! "
I think that, as the polls are concerned with who came first, they should stand there masturbating and eliminate any doubt about it. |
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By *ig badMan
over a year ago
Up North :-) |
"Next week will be crucial and the election won or lost on it. These debates are fast becoming the only reliable way of seeing the main three leaders thinking on the spot, and people will judge them on it, even though the questions are scripted and they have a 76-point plan to follow. lol
I think they should do the last one in fancy dress! Or all three come on dressed as clowns to improve the visual effect!
I think that, as the polls are concerned with who came first, they should stand there masturbating and eliminate any doubt about it. "
Ill bet a pound to a penny they wouldn't get any less votes if they did. |
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By *zMaleMan
over a year ago
penzance |
I think Clegg let himself down right at the end. He had to refer to bullet points in his notes where as DC and GB spoke with authority. I'm still with DC.
It's funny how people think about how people look. I couldn't give a monkeys how they look as long as they do what they say. OK DC may have had too much make up on but he looked and sounded better that the one eyed jock.
No offence to the Scots here BTW. |
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just listening now, I notice that the first time "Dave" says he will do something its giving £6500 to businesses that sell home owners another £6500 worth of green stuff!
So if you own your own home and have £6500 going spare in the first Dave budget you get £13000 of solar/wind/insulation for your home!
Nice for the rich! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"just listening now, I notice that the first time "Dave" says he will do something its giving £6500 to businesses that sell home owners another £6500 worth of green stuff!
So if you own your own home and have £6500 going spare in the first Dave budget you get £13000 of solar/wind/insulation for your home!
Nice for the rich!"
That's not what he said at all and you are deliberatley misrepresenting what was actually said.
Cameron said that households could spend upto £6,500 to improve energy efficiency in their homes and that incentives would be given to companies like M & S to pay for it.
The Tory manifesto mentions this same £6,500 figure under their 'Green Deal' policy but that the savings would be recouped over 25 years in reduced energy bills.
Now it is quite clear that any government cannot afford to give every household £6,500 - it would be ludicrous to even suggest it. What Cameron was saying is that it can be made affordable to every household by by giving companies, like M & S, incentives to pay for the work to be done.
The proof will be inquiring about the Green Deal and establishing what cost to the householder, if any, will be levied at the time of installation. I'm not expecting it to be free and I don't think it should be free - I'm using gas & electricity so it's only fair that I pay for it, and it's only fair that if I wish to save myself monet that I investigate ways of doing so. The Tories plan to mak that easier for me with their Green Deal, it appears.
How low income households will accomplish this I don't know, probably through some sort of credit system tagged on to whatever benefits they are cleaiming already, but I don't mind that, so long as everyone gets access to ways of reducing energy consumption. |
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"just listening now, I notice that the first time "Dave" says he will do something its giving £6500 to businesses that sell home owners another £6500 worth of green stuff!
So if you own your own home and have £6500 going spare in the first Dave budget you get £13000 of solar/wind/insulation for your home!
Nice for the rich!
That's not what he said at all and you are deliberatley misrepresenting what was actually said.
Cameron said that households could spend upto £6,500 to improve energy efficiency in their homes and that incentives would be given to companies like M & S to pay for it.
The Tory manifesto mentions this same £6,500 figure under their 'Green Deal' policy but that the savings would be recouped over 25 years in reduced energy bills.
Now it is quite clear that any government cannot afford to give every household £6,500 - it would be ludicrous to even suggest it. What Cameron was saying is that it can be made affordable to every household by by giving companies, like M & S, incentives to pay for the work to be done.
The proof will be inquiring about the Green Deal and establishing what cost to the householder, if any, will be levied at the time of installation. I'm not expecting it to be free and I don't think it should be free - I'm using gas & electricity so it's only fair that I pay for it, and it's only fair that if I wish to save myself monet that I investigate ways of doing so. The Tories plan to mak that easier for me with their Green Deal, it appears.
How low income households will accomplish this I don't know, probably through some sort of credit system tagged on to whatever benefits they are cleaiming already, but I don't mind that, so long as everyone gets access to ways of reducing energy consumption."
Actually what he said was homeowners, and then started stumbling over his words and looking down at his notes.
Its called a Freudian slip and happens when you catch yourself reveling something halfway through telling someone you want to hide it from. I am sure you will disagree, but I'll remind you of this when he has his emergency budget if he gets elected! My words will be: "I told you so" and your answer will be along the lines of "I don't want to hear that" if you answer. Of course I could be wrong, but I think not.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Actually what he said was homeowners, and then started stumbling over his words and looking down at his notes.
Its called a Freudian slip and happens when you catch yourself reveling something halfway through telling someone you want to hide it from. I am sure you will disagree, but I'll remind you of this when he has his emergency budget if he gets elected! My words will be: "I told you so" and your answer will be along the lines of "I don't want to hear that" if you answer. Of course I could be wrong, but I think not. "
A Freudian Slip only occurs when you reveal something that belies your true intention, wish or desire. We are agreed on that.
David Cameron knows full well that if the 'Green Deal' applied only to homeowners he'd be on a hiding to nothing and I'd disagree with that policy wholeheartedly.
Their manifesto states on page 93 under the heading: 'Helping people to go green':
"Rising energy costs hit families hard, so we will create a ‘Green Deal’, giving every home up to £6,500 worth of energy improvement measures – with more for hard-to-treat homes – paid for out of savings made on fuel bills over 25 years.
We will increase consumers’ control over their energy costs by ensuring that every energy bill provides information on how to move to the cheapest tariff offered by their supplier and how their energy usage compares to similar households.
We will improve the energy efficiency of everyday appliances by drawing on the experience of the ‘top runner’ scheme from Japan.
"
It makes no mention of 'homeowners' anywhere, so it's perfectly reasonable to assume, and indeed expect, a genuine mistake to be made in the heat of a lively debate. That is all he is guilty of and you can put whatever spin on it you like, as I'm sure you will, in order to back up your anti-tory stance. |
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but he said "homeowners" then stumbled then stumbled a second time when giving the figures. I think that rather than reading their manifesto (that they have had lots of time to create you need to spend more time listening to their non-scripted words and immediate corrections. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"but he said "homeowners" then stumbled then stumbled a second time when giving the figures. I think that rather than reading their manifesto (that they have had lots of time to create you need to spend more time listening to their non-scripted words and immediate corrections."
Spin. You are clutching at straws here to recover the ground you've lost in having a pop at a simple error. The guy made a mistake and was trying to recover from it. If you've ever addressed an audience you'd know how nerveracking it can be. Why can't you be objective and concede that he made a mistake and that the Tory Party would never adopt a policy that assisted property owners only. |
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Do you really think that "new labor"" are not a Conservative party?
If so I would advise you to compare Ted Heaths manifesto of 1970 against todays labor manifesto, I think you will be surprised at exactly how right wing labor have become, Dave's mob is just one too many lurches to the right. If he gets in we are heading to wards a Dickensian Briton.
The really sad thing is to get power he has to get working people like you to believe his lies and vote him in.
He sounds so like Thatcher, but that is no surprise as he has the Sachie's back pulling the PR strings. |
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"but he said "homeowners" then stumbled then stumbled a second time when giving the figures. I think that rather than reading their manifesto (that they have had lots of time to create you need to spend more time listening to their non-scripted words and immediate corrections.
Spin. You are clutching at straws here to recover the ground you've lost in having a pop at a simple error. The guy made a mistake and was trying to recover from it. If you've ever addressed an audience you'd know how nerveracking it can be. Why can't you be objective and concede that he made a mistake and that the Tory Party would never adopt a policy that assisted property owners only."
I never have problems telling the truth no matter how many people are listening, as for your point about money to homeowners only, it worked for Thatcher so why not for "call me Dave" Cameron? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I never have problems telling the truth no matter how many people are listening, as for your point about money to homeowners only, it worked for Thatcher so why not for "call me Dave" Cameron?"
So your only argument is to invoke policies from 27 to 13 years ago. How did Thatcher give money to homeowners exactly? Are you referring to the right to buy council homes? Something else entirely? Please elaborate.
Cameron has his own set of policies that are totally different to Thatcherism. If the current Tory manifesto was nothing but a copy of Thatcher's policies then I'm sure the Tories wouldn't be leading the opinion polls (not the leader debate polls). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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PERSONALLY, I AM NOT INTERESTED. IF THE REST OF THE COUNTRY FEEL THAT THE CURRENT WORLDWIDE ECONOMIC CLIMATE WAS OR IS DOWN TO THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT, THEN ITS THEIR PEROGASTIVE. I WOULD PERSONALLY WANT THE SAME GOVERNMENT TO LEAD US OUT OF THE CURRENT TURMOIL, THEN HOPING, WISHING AND PREAYING THAT ANY OTHER NEW ONE HAS THE ABILILTY.
I SUPPOSE THE BOTTOM LINE IS ARE WE RISK AVERSE OPR NOT.
PERSONALLY, IM CAUTIOUS
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"So your only argument is to invoke policies from 27 to 13 years ago. How did Thatcher give money to homeowners exactly? Are you referring to the right to buy council homes? Something else entirely? Please elaborate.
Cameron has his own set of policies that are totally different to Thatcherism. If the current Tory manifesto was nothing but a copy of Thatcher's policies then I'm sure the Tories wouldn't be leading the opinion polls (not the leader debate polls)."
Bathroom extensions, loft insulation, cavity wall insulation, window replacement grants. There the ones I can think of strait off, I'm sure there are more.
Ah now as for the manifesto, lets see, cut government spending, give money to people to run their own schools, give money to NHS patients, that sounds just like thatcher, cuts in public spending and then give a larger slice of what is left to those who can navigate the system. As we all know that the low skilled low paid not the rich professionals are the ones who are best able to get everything out of the system. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Do you really think that "new labor"" are not a Conservative party?
If so I would advise you to compare Ted Heaths manifesto of 1970 against todays labor manifesto, I think you will be surprised at exactly how right wing labor have become, Dave's mob is just one too many lurches to the right. If he gets in we are heading to wards a Dickensian Briton.
The really sad thing is to get power he has to get working people like you to believe his lies and vote him in.
He sounds so like Thatcher, but that is no surprise as he has the Sachie's back pulling the PR strings."
Huh? New Labour? Right Wing?
Do you know what the political battleground is or not?
Labour: Left (Socialism)
Conservative: Right (Capitalism)
Liberal: Anywhere it feels it can gain some ground from the other two.
I believed Blair and voted for him. If he was still leading Labour I'd probably still vote Labour as he is a world class politician, Brown is not. Cameron has the same mettle as Blair, Clegg could have but there's something missing with him, the wow factor just isn't present in Clegg.
Where do my political persuasions lie, you may be thinking. I'll tell you.
At heart, I'm a Liberal Democrat but I don't think they have what it takes to run a country that has to address it's internal problems yet still remain at the forefront of world politics. We are a world power and we need a leader to reflect that. Brown isn't a statesman, Blair was/is. Cameron has that oomph to him that will get the attention of other world leaders, it remains to be seen if he can convert that into deals that will benefit Britain.
Nick Clegg is a nice bloke but he's just not got the mustard to bang heads and get things for us internationally.
I can't see Clegg in the White House without wanting a guided tour so he can say he's seen it. Cameron would feel right at home there. This is interpersonal dynamics we're talking here, who's got what it takes to go get the best deal for us?
Cameron or Clegg?
It's going to be one of them, my money is on Cam.
~
Now we get to tactical voting.
Who will I vote for?
I want to vote Conservative. My instincts are saying 'Blue', but in my constituency it's a straight scrap between Labour and the Libdems.
2005 results:
Labour: 61%
Libdems: 21%
Conservatives: 10%
If I vote Tory it takes a vote away from the Libdems and the greater the chance that the Labour candidate will be returned.
I want Labour out. Period.
I have to vote for the Liberal Democrats as a Tory vote here in Gateshead is a wasted vote.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" As we all know that the low skilled low paid not the rich professionals are the ones who are best able to get everything out of the system. "
Unlike all the Labour, Tory & Libdem politicians caught up in the expenses scandal huh? |
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"
Unlike all the Labour, Tory & Libdem politicians caught up in the expenses scandal huh? "
Never met or for that matter heard of a politician who managed to get to Westminster who was not a highly intelligent, savvy person who know how to manipulate every system to their benefit.
As for your other post, I understand all you have said and would agree with a lot of it (tactical voting is good), however I do not trust the Tories, and it is my belief that they effectively took control of the labor party in the late 80's early 90's in the same way as more militant religious organizations are moving into all major parties now. I think we may be a lot closer in our politics than our posts would suggest. I believe that the divide is one of trust of the Tories and I do not think that divide will be bridged until you become as disillusioned with them as I became in the early 80's.
Having said that you do make me think and question my beliefs and that is no bad thing. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Brown and Blair were Labour activists in the 90s and would defend their socialist views to the death I suspect so I see no synergy with the Tories taking over the Labour party, unless you mean a hijacking of Labour policy which would move the Tories from the right to at the very least centre-left, and I just cannot picture Cameron's Conservatives on the left anywhere lol
I'm thinking that a hung parliament would be good for the Libdems so that Clegg can cut his political teeth but the tradition of hung parliaments in the UK is that they are swiftly followed by another General Election, and on that basis, support for the Libdems would evaporate back to their 15% usual vote as many people would take the view that 'we gave the Libs a chance and they didnt win' so it's back to Red/Blue. And that's the election I think Cameron would win hands down with a substantial majority. If I was Cameron, I'd be hoping for a hung parliament if the Tories don't win outright as they'd surely win the next election.
If I was Clegg - get some deals done pal! You're out in the cold if you don't.
If I was Brown - is the veggie patch ready for planting yet honey? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Next week will be crucial and the election won or lost on it. These debates are fast becoming the only reliable way of seeing the main three leaders thinking on the spot, and people will judge them on it, even though the questions are scripted and they have a 76-point plan to follow. lol
I think they should do the last one in fancy dress! Or all three come on dressed as clowns to improve the visual effect! "
oi you no way!!! i hate clowns!! politicians and clowns its like a nightmare!!!xx  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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cameron did say home owners and stumble over the rest!
most council housing up here already had the insulation , windows etc done but majority still in fuel poverty because of the high price of prepay meters for gas and electric, and not many companies will put you on a cheaper direct debit tariff if you have had the prepay meters it is effectively robbing the poor by the privatised companies and who privatised them..........
even some home owners wont be able to access camerons plans for this due to credit ratings etc so good try dave but no star from me!! x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Europe . As 4 the earlier post on this subject , there is the euro med trade zone, a free trade area .Therefore if we withdraw from the eu job losses could be minimal . UK also still pays billions more into the eu than it gets out . For myself I would rather withdraw but if we stay in I would ask the question why have a uk parliament at all ? Why not a central euro parliament? Seems a waste of money to me and would mean all countries in the EU could opperate on an even footing .
Yes I do Know we have Euro MP's , but why duplicate
No uk parliament, no Hollyrood and no Welsh assembly ! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Europe . As 4 the earlier post on this subject , there is the euro med trade zone, a free trade area .Therefore if we withdraw from the eu job losses could be minimal . UK also still pays billions more into the eu than it gets out . For myself I would rather withdraw but if we stay in I would ask the question why have a uk parliament at all ? Why not a central euro parliament? Seems a waste of money to me and would mean all countries in the EU could opperate on an even footing .
Yes I do Know we have Euro MP's , but why duplicate
No uk parliament, no Hollyrood and no Welsh assembly ! |
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I'm still undecided between Lib Dem and Tories.
Thought Brown had had nothing to say but the same old blah, blah!
Cameron talks at you and lectures you like a school headmaster. And he talks about "real change", but that sounds like the same old government, just tweaked. Can anyone tell me what he actually means in practice when he says, we the people will be taking control and having a bigger say in schools, policing etc? Doesn't that happen now to varying degrees - school governers, PTA, local government, etc and I'm sure it does in other areas too??????
Thought Clegg still had the edge, but a close run thing this week between him and Cameron. And thought Clegg struggled in a couple of areas, under close scrutiny from Cameron and he fudged a couple of issues, like getting Trident on short notice if the defence review thought we really needed it and couple of points on Europe too. However, I like the way he engages with the audience, comes across as geniune and makes you feel that Government doesn't have to complicated if we just apply some logic and common sense. I believe him when he says he is going to change the way we do Government and for me that's the biggest thing I want to see.
However, I definitely don't want to be governed by Europe - in it, but not controlled by it.
So my biggest dilemma is, Cameron who'll be a strong leader and fight our corner in Europe and the rest of the world, but same old Tory Government. ...Or Clegg who'll change the way we do Government, but is he strong enough to stand up for us against the likes of France, Germany, America, China, Iran, etc, or will he be a surrender monkey?
...Phew!  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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hmmm interesting choice . i thought cameron was saying what he thought folk wanted to hear , change here change there but to be honest its not going to change much with him i dont think . brown i lost all respect for when he said that we were best placed in the world to come out of the recession and that it was a global thing and not his fault even though he spent a long time hin that field . clegg for me is an unknown a shot in the dark maybe he is telling the truth maybe he bullshitting and playing up on last debate . at the moment id go for lib dems simply cause im sick of the old way things are run and really do want a genuine and meaningful change and am willing to take the shot in the dark and see what happens . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"a shot in the dark and see what happens"
Would you take a risk having unprotected sex?
Probably not.
So why do it with your lifestyle, finances, job, security, & future?
A Libdem vote on this basis is my biggest fear of all as it means anyone who can talk a good shop but have no substance can gain power. Or someone who says all the right things but has an entirely secret agenda that kicks in after he's got the power he needs.
Circa 1933. Ring any bells?
Now I'm not comparing Clegg to Hitler, that would be plain daft, but what I am saying that an ill-informed vote is an entirely pointless one, as is a 'shot in the dark' vote, in my opinion. |
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""a shot in the dark and see what happens"
Would you take a risk having unprotected sex?
Probably not.
So why do it with your lifestyle, finances, job, security, & future?
A Libdem vote on this basis is my biggest fear of all as it means anyone who can talk a good shop but have no substance can gain power. Or someone who says all the right things but has an entirely secret agenda that kicks in after he's got the power he needs.
Circa 1933. Ring any bells?
Now I'm not comparing Clegg to Hitler, that would be plain daft, but what I am saying that an ill-informed vote is an entirely pointless one, as is a 'shot in the dark' vote, in my opinion."
I don't think he is saying that at all and how do you know if he is ill-informed???? What I think he is questioning is, that he wants change and thinks Clegg will deliver, ...but will he actually deliver what he says as Lib Dem are untried and tested.
My biggest fear is, will a vote for Lib Dem result in a hung Parliament and leave Mr Brown in No.10?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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""a shot in the dark and see what happens"
Would you take a risk having unprotected sex?
Probably not.
So why do it with your lifestyle, finances, job, security, & future?
A Libdem vote on this basis is my biggest fear of all as it means anyone who can talk a good shop but have no substance can gain power. Or someone who says all the right things but has an entirely secret agenda that kicks in after he's got the power he needs.
Circa 1933. Ring any bells?
Now I'm not comparing Clegg to Hitler, that would be plain daft, but what I am saying that an ill-informed vote is an entirely pointless one, as is a 'shot in the dark' vote, in my opinion.
I don't think he is saying that at all and how do you know if he is ill-informed???? What I think he is questioning is, that he wants change and thinks Clegg will deliver, ...but will he actually deliver what he says as Lib Dem are untried and tested.
My biggest fear is, will a vote for Lib Dem result in a hung Parliament and leave Mr Brown in No.10? "
Why don't you read what I posted properly. I didn't say HE was ill-informed, I said a 'shot in the dark' vote was pointless. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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well way i see it you got two parties who dont really have to say a thing cause you know what you getting . but there is a third as yet untried party and my point is how to know if they telling the truth or not when they never been in power in my lifetime or a lot of others ?? therefore its a shot in the dark folk want change but as stated in my opnion labour wil do what they alweays do and the tories will do what they always do . so shot in the dark nothing to lose . |
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""a shot in the dark and see what happens"
Would you take a risk having unprotected sex?
Probably not.
So why do it with your lifestyle, finances, job, security, & future?
A Libdem vote on this basis is my biggest fear of all as it means anyone who can talk a good shop but have no substance can gain power. Or someone who says all the right things but has an entirely secret agenda that kicks in after he's got the power he needs.
Circa 1933. Ring any bells?
Now I'm not comparing Clegg to Hitler, that would be plain daft, but what I am saying that an ill-informed vote is an entirely pointless one, as is a 'shot in the dark' vote, in my opinion.
I don't think he is saying that at all and how do you know if he is ill-informed???? What I think he is questioning is, that he wants change and thinks Clegg will deliver, ...but will he actually deliver what he says as Lib Dem are untried and tested.
My biggest fear is, will a vote for Lib Dem result in a hung Parliament and leave Mr Brown in No.10?
Why don't you read what I posted properly. I didn't say HE was ill-informed, I said a 'shot in the dark' vote was pointless. "
I understand that a vote for Lib Dem is a gamble, as it is with any of them.
But sorry, but unless I've really misunderstood you, you seem to be inferring that a vote for Clegg is an ill-informed vote. And why in your opinion is a "shot in the dark" vote - in the context that it was used a pointless vote? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I understand that a vote for Lib Dem is a gamble, as it is with any of them.
But sorry, but unless I've really misunderstood you, you seem to be inferring that a vote for Clegg is an ill-informed vote. And why in your opinion is a "shot in the dark" vote - in the context that it was used a pointless vote?"
Anyone who uses their vote to vote 'the way me dad does', or 'that's how we vote round here', or 'fuck it, let them have a go' has cast a pointless vote.
It's very easy thesedays to log on, download the manifestos of the main three parties, read them, and make an educated choice. I'd rather people didn't vote at all that run the risk of re-electing some wank party just because their fookin dad likes them. |
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By *umourCouple
over a year ago
Rushden |
The Labour party are deliberately letting Clegg and Co. have an easy time of it! None of that crap Gordon Clown used to spout against them. And for a very good reason!
The Liberals Democrats will not get in, but because they are looking like splitting the vote, it will mean a win for Gordon and a hung parliment, both things that this country needs like a hole in the head!
I have been reading the political posts on here for a few weeks and it is a real surprise how many people are still blaming Maggie for the ills of the UK! She has not been in power for about 17 years and in that time and certainly in the nearly 14 years NL have been in power, they could have changed anything they didn't agree with.
Also the number of post saying " I always vote for ****!" Read the manifestos and decide on a vote by vote basis!
My mother in law always votes Labour, even though she says that they always leave loads of crap for the next government to clear up! Why??? Because she always has!! I agree with Wishy, no matter what you vote, make it an informed vote or it IS wasted! |
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"The Labour party are deliberately letting Clegg and Co. have an easy time of it! None of that crap Gordon Clown used to spout against them. And for a very good reason!
The Liberals Democrats will not get in, but because they are looking like splitting the vote, it will mean a win for Gordon and a hung parliment, both things that this country needs like a hole in the head!
I have been reading the political posts on here for a few weeks and it is a real surprise how many people are still blaming Maggie for the ills of the UK! She has not been in power for about 17 years and in that time and certainly in the nearly 14 years NL have been in power, they could have changed anything they didn't agree with.
Also the number of post saying " I always vote for ****!" Read the manifestos and decide on a vote by vote basis!
My mother in law always votes Labour, even though she says that they always leave loads of crap for the next government to clear up! Why??? Because she always has!! I agree with Wishy, no matter what you vote, make it an informed vote or it IS wasted!"
Like it or not but all votes cast count the same,
they are no more or no less pointless than your vote.
Nobody has to justify to anyone the way they vote. |
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"I understand that a vote for Lib Dem is a gamble, as it is with any of them.
But sorry, but unless I've really misunderstood you, you seem to be inferring that a vote for Clegg is an ill-informed vote. And why in your opinion is a "shot in the dark" vote - in the context that it was used a pointless vote?
Anyone who uses their vote to vote 'the way me dad does', or 'that's how we vote round here', or 'fuck it, let them have a go' has cast a pointless vote.
It's very easy thesedays to log on, download the manifestos of the main three parties, read them, and make an educated choice. I'd rather people didn't vote at all that run the risk of re-electing some wank party just because their fookin dad likes them."
I think you are right about making informed judgements, but that's not what the poster was saying. Forgive for talking for him, but I think he was saying that he doesn't trust the other two party's, who are essentially saying the same thing and wasn't sure if he could trust an untried Lib Dem to deliver on something different. So not neccessarily pointless or ill-informed!
Personally, I've always voted Tory except when Labour were more Tory than the Tory's. But I like to think I'm open to listening to new ideas and other points of view.
So why not give Lib Dem a try? They couldn't fuck it up any worse than the other two, ...or maybe it'll be the best thing we ever did, but we'll never know if they don't get in. |
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