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United We Stand? Independent Scotland a Good or Bad Idea 3

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

This is a favorite topic here, so I am doing part 3 lol

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By *ichaelangelaCouple over a year ago

notts

"This is a favorite topic here, so I am doing part 3 lol

an excellent topic and a really good, well mannered debate, dont fully understand it all but learning quickly.

please keep it nice though guys as it has been so far

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"This is a favorite topic here, so I am doing part 3 lol

an excellent topic and a really good, well mannered debate, dont fully understand it all but learning quickly.

please keep it nice though guys as it has been so far "
Yes your right ther its quite fun subject as well, but fun to debate as well

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By *athfindersCouple over a year ago

Hull

I find the most amusing part of this thread regarding the EU.

A certain person on previous threads (mentioning no names) seems to think that it will be no problem to re- join the EU and his/her argument is solely based on Independent Scotland. Bear in mind the UK is part of the EU and many people want out for reason of control!

So my question - Why oh why would Scotland want to leave the UK only to join the EU and be partly controlled by Brussels?? Not very independent is it??

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By *ichaelangelaCouple over a year ago

notts

"I find the most amusing part of this thread regarding the EU.

So my question - Why oh why would Scotland want to leave the UK only to join the EU and be partly controlled by Brussels?? Not very independent is it??

well to quote myself from the previous threads, i feel i dont have enough knowledge on the subject to be able to make an informed comment.

so for that reason, i will keep quiet(ish) and read intently both sides of the debate.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"I find the most amusing part of this thread regarding the EU.

So my question - Why oh why would Scotland want to leave the UK only to join the EU and be partly controlled by Brussels?? Not very independent is it??

To be honest I believe that there are those north of the border who see independence as an instrument to reduce outgoings by dispensing with the need to pay for defense and border policing (passing those costs to what remains of the UK) while passing the costs of infrastructure investment to the EU (regional grants etc.). However unfortunately for them I see the international carpetbaggers (sorry merchant bankers) sharpening their sharky nashers and preparing for a feeding frenzy that the UK and EU will sit back and watch with a certain "I told you so" smugness.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"I find the most amusing part of this thread regarding the EU.

So my question - Why oh why would Scotland want to leave the UK only to join the EU and be partly controlled by Brussels?? Not very independent is it??

Scotland will continue within the eu. Obviously it is just my opinion but I base it on everything I know and have read and heard over the years of this debate. The idea that we could be out when all it's citizens want in is so unbelievable that....well, I can't believe it. What would the reason be for a veto?

Anyway, we are already in the eu and the uk. Only one of those unions works in our favour. Germany is in the eu, no one is gonna tell me Germany isn't an independent nation.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

Not all UK citizens want out of the EU either, just like Scotland it may turn out to be a minority making all the noise.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Can anyone explain when Scotland as an independent nation joined the EU ???

The United Kingdom is a member of this,but if Scotland decides to leave,then it becomes a "NEW" independent country.

As a new independent nation it will not be a signed member of the EU so will have to apply for membership,in much the same way as all the other "NEW" independent countries have.

They are not going to change the rules just to suit Scotland are they ????

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I find the most amusing part of this thread regarding the EU.

So my question - Why oh why would Scotland want to leave the UK only to join the EU and be partly controlled by Brussels?? Not very independent is it??

Anyway, we are already in the eu and the uk. Only one of those unions works in our favour. Germany is in the eu, no one is gonna tell me Germany isn't an independent nation. "

Now you are having a laugh...

How's can Scotland be compared to Germany? They were not part of a union that was a member of the EU that left the Union to become an independent country were they? Unless you're trying to compare the reunification of Germany with Scotland leaving the UK which is like comparing chalk and cheese really isn't it? It's certainly not a comparison most people would make.

Scotland will have to negotiate its own terms with the EU, that doesn't happen overnight, it usually takes years. Why is Scotland different from other nations hoping to join the EU?

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

You need to look at the bigger picture. Don't simplify it. Ask yourself why the European Union would allow Croatia, Romania and Bulgaria to join but would actively refuse to allow Scotland in for the reason that we democratically chose to leave a nation that we are bigger and richer than and who is about to hold an in/out referendum on membership themselves. It makes no sense.

To allow us to be outside the eu, even for a day, is madness. How would the even work? Picture it for god sake!

We are eu citizens. We wish to remain so. We leave the eu. We have a year and a half to negotiate our continuation within it. Plenty of experts stating this seems realistic. Opinion to the contrary being dismissed left right and centre including Barosso who appears to have been courting the uk and has been roundly slammed for his comments.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"I find the most amusing part of this thread regarding the EU.

So my question - Why oh why would Scotland want to leave the UK only to join the EU and be partly controlled by Brussels?? Not very independent is it??

Anyway, we are already in the eu and the uk. Only one of those unions works in our favour. Germany is in the eu, no one is gonna tell me Germany isn't an independent nation. "

You have been saying that for months. You have been telling me that I know nothing, that I have no grasp on the political realities, one of your fellow nationalists has even made veiled threats and resorted to using scottish gaelic in an attempt to silence my message. Then you told me that when the Spanish PM said what I had been saying for months, that you won't be allowed to stay in the EU, he was addressing the Catalans and Basques not the Scotts. When I asked: Do you think they will hear the message when Spain vetoes your continued membership of the EU? And forces you to re-apply and go through the full process of EU application you ignore that point. Then when the President of the Commission says your readmission will be difficult if not impossible you dismiss him as just a Portuguese politician. You similarly dismiss everything said by anyone else that does not conform with what you want to hear.

At what point are you going to realise that it is you and those who give you your opinion that are wrong?

And before you say that I would say that because I am in the 'No' camp, go check all my posts, you will find that I have only once said which way you should vote and that was 'Yes'. Admittedly there was a lot of sarcasm in that post, but I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that you and yours are a cancerous growth that the UK needs to cut out for our benefit.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Now you are having a laugh...

Scotland will have to negotiate its own terms with the EU, that doesn't happen overnight, it usually takes years. Why is Scotland different from other nations hoping to join the EU? "

Jesus cos we are already in it!! Our citizens are eu citizens. We operate under eu law! We meet the criteria in every way and the only difference is we will be independent and richer! How does that work against us?

You say it could take years. I say a year and a half. And I'm not the only one who thinks so.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

At what point are you going to realise that it is you and those who give you your opinion that are wrong?

And I stand by that. Both the Spanish and Portuguese politicans carry as much weight on the subject as Scottish and English ones. They are politicans and what they say and why should be scrutinised. You seem to blindly beleive them.

You have previously referred to us on the yes side as bigots. Now we are cancerous.

I have my own opinions of you and I won't tarnish this debate by voicing them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Omg, o just read the entire last thread & I have come to 2 part conclusion (drum roll)

A: it's a fantastic debate, & I had no idea that there was so many clever so & so's on Fab, especially the budding economists;

& B: what is the problem with the label 'Haggis'? It just so happens to be

absolutely delicious!!

Food is important too, you know - & unlike the majority of the union, importantly, Scotland will be able to feed itself & quench it's own thirst -

with ease without relying on products from overseas countries.

Not to be underestimated taking in to account the envisioned global food & water crisis of tomorrow.

Just another angle to the debate, wools!

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

Now you are having a laugh...

Scotland will have to negotiate its own terms with the EU, that doesn't happen overnight, it usually takes years. Why is Scotland different from other nations hoping to join the EU?

You say it could take years. I say a year and a half. And I'm not the only one who thinks so. "

You only have to look down the list of EU member states to spot that Scotland isn't on it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Now you are having a laugh...

Scotland will have to negotiate its own terms with the EU, that doesn't happen overnight, it usually takes years. Why is Scotland different from other nations hoping to join the EU?

You say it could take years. I say a year and a half. And I'm not the only one who thinks so. "

The United Kingdom is in the EU

Scotland isn't as a named member state.

Scotland leaves United Kingdom.

What comes next...

Has Scotland negotiated its terms with the EU? I soppose you just want to pay 9% of what the UK pays to become an independent member state. Doesn't it work by member states voting on new entrants?

Hasn't it just taken those small countries years to join?

You are EU citizens by way of the UK membership, same as the rest of us.

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By *udie_GirlTV/TS over a year ago

Rochdale

"... Ask yourself why the European Union would allow Croatia, Romania and Bulgaria to join but would actively refuse to allow Scotland in for the reason that we democratically chose to leave a nation that we are bigger and richer than and who is about to hold an in/out referendum on membership themselves. ...."

Ok, a theory, and just a theory mind, is that they are trying to prevent a breakup of the UK by casting doubt on readmission, because unlike other far poorer countries who have joined and want to join, scotland would be setting the dangerous precedent of being the first to actually and sucessfully secede from the EU.

I have no evidence for this, but to my mind, at least it's plausible.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

The United Kingdom is in the EU

Scotland isn't as a named member state.

Scotland leaves United Kingdom.

What comes next...

Has Scotland negotiated its terms with the EU? I soppose you just want to pay 9% of what the UK pays to become an independent member state. Doesn't it work by member states voting on new entrants?

Hasn't it just taken those small countries years to join?

You are EU citizens by way of the UK membership, same as the rest of us.

What would the reason be for almost allowing us in within the 1.5 year timeframe. Give me some reasons that someone might veto. Bear in mind that a nation won't veto lightly, they know the implications this could have on continuing relations. So we are in now but by leaving the uk we are out on our arse because of some nation vetoing?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The United Kingdom is in the EU

Scotland isn't as a named member state.

Scotland leaves United Kingdom.

What comes next...

Has Scotland negotiated its terms with the EU? I soppose you just want to pay 9% of what the UK pays to become an independent member state. Doesn't it work by member states voting on new entrants?

Hasn't it just taken those small countries years to join?

You are EU citizens by way of the UK membership, same as the rest of us.

Spain seems up for it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think Spain may well force Scotland along a very long route to join the EU.

This would be to show the Catalans etc. that Independence from the original country comes at a huge financial cost and leaves you vulnerable for many years.

While applying for EU membership is perfectly acceptable,a fast track into it is not.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Spain seems up for it."

Based on what? Rahoy? That's like basing your vote on Cameron or Salmond alone!

So all the spainish fisherman in the North Sea have to go home and the Spanish economy takes the hit. International relations take a serious hit. And all for what? Why?

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

No doubt we'll soon be being told we're 'automatically' members of the G8 and G20 on the grounds that the UK is a member and therefore Scotland must be a member too.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"I think Spain may well force Scotland along a very long route to join the EU.

This would be to show the Catalans etc. that Independence from the original country comes at a huge financial cost and leaves you vulnerable for many years.

While applying for EU membership is perfectly acceptable,a fast track into it is not.

So what happens in the interim? In practical terms what happens in Scotland for that duration that we are non eu citizens in a non eu country. Think about it.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"I think Spain may well force Scotland along a very long route to join the EU.

This would be to show the Catalans etc. that Independence from the original country comes at a huge financial cost and leaves you vulnerable for many years.

While applying for EU membership is perfectly acceptable,a fast track into it is not.

So what happens in the interim? In practical terms what happens in Scotland for that duration that we are non eu citizens in a non eu country. Think about it. "

Parritch and auld clathes?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The rUK does not need to think about it though.

We are already established members and as such dont have a problem.

Scotland on the other hand really does need to think about it.

The possibility that they could be outside the EU.

The possibility that everyone and his fishing boat will be taking your fish and your farming subsidy no longer exists.

These are just a few of the problems you could have if you vote YES.

They may not happen at all,but what IF must surely be considered and not just ignored with a "Why would they" response.

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By *athfindersCouple over a year ago

Hull

Now you are having a laugh...

Scotland will have to negotiate its own terms with the EU, that doesn't happen overnight, it usually takes years. Why is Scotland different from other nations hoping to join the EU?

You say it could take years. I say a year and a half. And I'm not the only one who thinks so. "

I think you are a broken record! The United Kindom is part of the EU. At present Scotland is part of the United Kingdom.

Google eu member stated and you will see United Kingdom. No where will you see Scotland.

Once you leave the United Kingdom you will no longer part of the United Kingdom. Therefore no longer part of EU.

How difficult is this to understand.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

The possibility that everyone and his fishing boat will be taking your fish and your farming subsidy no longer exists.

These are just a few of the problems you could have if you vote YES.

They may not happen at all,but what IF must surely be considered and not just ignored with a "Why would they" response."

So these are the problems if we vote yes is it? So what if we vote no. What about the possilbities of being taken out of the eu by voters in England in the other referendum?

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

I think you are a broken record! The United Kindom is part of the EU. At present Scotland is part of the United Kingdom.

Google eu member stated and you will see United Kingdom. No where will you see Scotland.

Once you leave the United Kingdom you will no longer part of the United Kingdom. Therefore no longer part of EU.

How difficult is this to understand. "

I couldn't give a damn if I sound like a broken record. What you are struggling with is the possibility that those in the eu will see the logic in allowing us to continue as eu citizen for the following reasons;

We are already in it.

We don't want to leave it

We are richer than the uk

We are bigger than the UK (not that size matters but I mean, you put everything on your cv, right?)

To remove us, even for a few months or years creates a mess that no one needs and that will cost many nations money.

They aren't just gonna veto cos that's what it says in the book! There are negotiations and a year and a half timeframe.

I might be a broken record but at least I'm in tune.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

The possibility that everyone and his fishing boat will be taking your fish and your farming subsidy no longer exists.

These are just a few of the problems you could have if you vote YES.

They may not happen at all,but what IF must surely be considered and not just ignored with a "Why would they" response.

So these are the problems if we vote yes is it? So what if we vote no. What about the possilbities of being taken out of the eu by voters in England in the other referendum?"

I appreciate you find the question difficult but if the UK votes to leave the EU (I doubt there'll ever be a vote, far less a vote to leave) that'll be the democratic decision of the people - just like the Separandum.

You can't object to that, can you?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

What will independence do to whisky prices? Is it time to start drinking vodka? These are the important questions that need to be addressed.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

I think you are a broken record! The United Kindom is part of the EU. At present Scotland is part of the United Kingdom.

Google eu member stated and you will see United Kingdom. No where will you see Scotland.

Once you leave the United Kingdom you will no longer part of the United Kingdom. Therefore no longer part of EU.

How difficult is this to understand.

We are already in it.

We don't want to leave it

We are richer than the uk

We are bigger than the UK (not that size matters but I mean, you put everything on your cv, right?)

To remove us, even for a few months or years creates a mess that no one needs and that will cost many nations money.

They aren't just gonna veto cos that's what it says in the book! There are negotiations and a year and a half timeframe.

I might be a broken record but at least I'm in tune. "

There we have it. It's in the Shite paper so it MUST be true.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Being alone and having a very tiny armed forces means you will be unable to protect your fish stocks.

£3 billion will not be enough to protect all of your fishing grounds,and who is going to stop Spanish and other nations trawlers from plundering every last fish.

"HEY PACK IT IN YOU NAUGHTY LOT" "THOSE ARE OUR FISH"

After all they will not be being caught in EU controlled waters, so quotas mean nothing,when its every man for himself.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

Scotland will be an EU member state, i don't think that is in doubt. However, it certainly won't be automatic & it may not be quick. What Scots have to consider is what terms will the EU offer/demand for entry to the club?

The entry requirements for new applicants are very different to those that the UK had to adhere to.

Take up of the Euro, entry into the Shengen agreement for example, plus you almost certainly won't get the rebate the UK currently enjoys. You may well find that Scottish membership of the EU costs you more than at present.

These points need examination, not airily dismissed by Salmond by saying it will be all right.

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By *athfindersCouple over a year ago

Hull

I think you are a broken record! The United Kindom is part of the EU. At present Scotland is part of the United Kingdom.

Google eu member stated and you will see United Kingdom. No where will you see Scotland.

Once you leave the United Kingdom you will no longer part of the United Kingdom. Therefore no longer part of EU.

How difficult is this to understand.

We are already in it.

We don't want to leave it

We are richer than the uk

We are bigger than the UK (not that size matters but I mean, you put everything on your cv, right?)

To remove us, even for a few months or years creates a mess that no one needs and that will cost many nations money.

They aren't just gonna veto cos that's what it says in the book! There are negotiations and a year and a half timeframe.

I might be a broken record but at least I'm in tune. "

Everyone vote YES and follow this man. Can't wait to see what is going to happen with reasoning like this.

I saw an earlier post of yours stating 1 in 4 of English people are in poverty. Another 1 in 4 applies -

1 in 4 of Scots have mental health issues (That is a true fact by the way!).

The other 3 must not be in the forum at the moment!!!

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

". So all the spainish fisherman in the North Sea have to go home and the Spanish economy takes the hit. International relations take a serious hit. And all for what? Why?"

Just a quick question or...

Why would the Spanish or any other fishermen for that leave Scottish waters?

You need a navy to enforce territorial waters.

And what international relations will be damaged? Seems to me that all those little men who can't gain power in legitimate political ways so ferment xenophobia in minorities with chips on their shoulders be they in Spain, France, Germany, Belgum or the Netherland and call it nationalism will have the rug pulled out from under them and will all be secretly happy to watch the Scottish economy fall apart.

But hey what would I know about things like this...

But getting back to the first part you will have something like 3/4 to 4/5 of the pre breakup territorial waters to police...

Where are you going to get the navy and air force to police that? And how are you going to finance and man them?

Seems you may be needing those defense forces after all

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"Being alone and having a very tiny armed forces means you will be unable to protect your fish stocks.

£3 billion will not be enough to protect all of your fishing grounds,and who is going to stop Spanish and other nations trawlers from plundering every last fish.

"HEY PACK IT IN YOU NAUGHTY LOT" "THOSE ARE OUR FISH"

After all they will not be being caught in EU controlled waters, so quotas mean nothing,when its every man for himself. "

In the increasingly unlikely event of Separation, Scotland won't have enough of a navy to protect the Govan Ferry or throw an exclusion zone around the Bass Rock.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

According to wiki, England is 1.66 times bigger than Scotland. A report i read on the BBC stated that Scotlands economy is 1/10th that of the UK. In fact, Scotland is the 3rd most productive region of the UK.

Certainly not bigger, and arguably not the richest region in the UK.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"Scotland will be an EU member state, i don't think that is in doubt. However, it certainly won't be automatic & it may not be quick. What Scots have to consider is what terms will the EU offer/demand for entry to the club?

The entry requirements for new applicants are very different to those that the UK had to adhere to.

These points need examination, not airily dismissed by Salmond by saying it will be all right."

Yeah you are right. No one has been examining this at all. It's just Salmond in his castle. Big mad ideas.

Do you know this; he actually had the audacity to say the euro was impossible. Impossible says he. Okay I mean he is correct but that doesn't mean he's right!

Why we are all blindly following him I'll never know. But hey ho. Let's get pished!!

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"According to wiki, England is 1.66 times bigger than Scotland. A report i read on the BBC stated that Scotlands economy is 1/10th that of the UK. In fact, Scotland is the 3rd most productive region of the UK.

Certainly not bigger, and arguably not the richest region in the UK.

I refer to land and sea territory.

And we are richer. I refer to the facts.

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By *athfindersCouple over a year ago

Hull

Certainly not bigger, and arguably not the richest region in the UK.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

Certainly not bigger, and arguably not the richest region in the UK.

1.66? Land mass?

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

". So all the spainish fisherman in the North Sea have to go home and the Spanish economy takes the hit. International relations take a serious hit. And all for what? Why?

Just a quick question or...

Why would the Spanish or any other fishermen for that leave Scottish waters?

You need a navy to enforce territorial waters.

But hey what would I know about things like this...

But getting back to the first part you will have something like 3/4 to 4/5 of the pre breakup territorial waters to police...

Where are you going to get the navy and air force to police that? And how are you going to finance and man them?

Seems you may be needing those defense forces after all

You a military man by any chance. You seem to have a thing about it.

We'll spend our money on other things thanks.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

Certainly not bigger, and arguably not the richest region in the UK.

I refer to land and sea territory.

And we are richer. I refer to the facts. "

Making stuff up and calling it facts doesn't make it so.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

". So all the spainish fisherman in the North Sea have to go home and the Spanish economy takes the hit. International relations take a serious hit. And all for what? Why?

Just a quick question or...

Why would the Spanish or any other fishermen for that leave Scottish waters?

You need a navy to enforce territorial waters.

But hey what would I know about things like this...

But getting back to the first part you will have something like 3/4 to 4/5 of the pre breakup territorial waters to police...

Where are you going to get the navy and air force to police that? And how are you going to finance and man them?

Seems you may be needing those defense forces after all

You a military man by any chance. You seem to have a thing about it.

We'll spend our money on other things thanks. "

Yes I am a military man. And just for the record there's a name for countries that decide they dont need military men...

Either colonies and territories of countries that do! Or ex countries!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Wonder how long the "GOOD OLD USA" is going to allow an oil rich country with no armed forces to stay independent.

Maybe we should ask one of the oil rich gulf states ????

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Yes I am a military man. And just for the record there's a name for countries that decide they dont need military men...

Either colonies and territories of countries that do! Or ex countries!"

Thought so. You'll know this then -

When was the last time either of the following countries was subject to unprovoked attack, an act of war, if you will;

Ireland

Sweden

Norway

Denmark

Iceland

Netherlands

I pick those because of location and size of population.

Thanks

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

Yes I am a military man. And just for the record there's a name for countries that decide they dont need military men...

Either colonies and territories of countries that do! Or ex countries!

Thought so. You'll know this then -

When was the last time either of the following countries was subject to unprovoked attack, an act of war, if you will;

Ireland

Sweden

Norway

Denmark

Iceland

Netherlands

I pick those because of location and size of population.

Thanks"

Some of those countries didn't fare too well during WWII.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Wonder how long the "GOOD OLD USA" is going to allow an oil rich country with no armed forces to stay independent.

Maybe we should ask one of the oil rich gulf states ????

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

Certainly not bigger, and arguably not the richest region in the UK.

Couple that with the huge numbers of civil servants employed in UK departments, which will have to relocate, and you have quite a sizeable problem to solve. I have not heard any concrete answers to ANY problem yet, just rhetoric and dogma, I hope the yes campaign put some flesh on the bones soon as there seems to be little or no detail so far.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

At least we can be sure North Sea oil and gas production facilities are safe from Soviet interference whilst we still have Trident boats based on the Clyde.

Oh. Hold on. Wait a minute........

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well a navy would be well out of the question when they have to find half a billion £s in farm subsidies they currently receive by being in the UK and EU.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

Yes I am a military man. And just for the record there's a name for countries that decide they dont need military men...

Either colonies and territories of countries that do! Or ex countries!

Thought so. You'll know this then -

When was the last time either of the following countries was subject to unprovoked attack, an act of war, if you will;

Ireland

Sweden

Norway

Denmark

Iceland

Netherlands

I pick those because of location and size of population.

Thanks"

OK Ill go through them in order...

Ireland:

Because of the position of Ireland we (the UK) kept the 6 counties so we would have a permanent military presence in Ireland that could move south of the border to counter any invasion. We also kept overall responsibility for the security of Irish territorial waters and 3 deep water port and the right to recruit troops in the south when we signed the Anglo Irish Treaty in 1921.

Sweden:

That would be the peace loving country that developed the first stealth warships and have sunk a number of USSR submarines that entered their territorial waters.

Norway:

One of the original members of NATO with the second best artic army in the world.

Denmark:

That would be the country that kicked the crap out of the USSR in The winter War so much that the russians sued for peace and after the end of WW2 guaranteed to respect Finish borders on condition that they did not join NATO. And in my opinion has the best artic army in the world.

Iceland:

The country that kicked our butts in the cod wars.

Netherlands:

Again one of the original members of NATO and thus protected.

Want to try again?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Now you are having a laugh...

Scotland will have to negotiate its own terms with the EU, that doesn't happen overnight, it usually takes years. Why is Scotland different from other nations hoping to join the EU?

You say it could take years. I say a year and a half. And I'm not the only one who thinks so. "

We are EU citizens because we are part of the UNITED KINGDOM who is a member. If we choose to leave the UK and go independent then we are no longer EU citizens. That's like saying because we are British citizens now we will still be if we go independent!!

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Yes I am a military man. And just for the record there's a name for countries that decide they dont need military men...

Either colonies and territories of countries that do! Or ex countries!

Thought so. You'll know this then -

When was the last time either of the following countries was subject to unprovoked attack, an act of war, if you will;

Ireland

Sweden

Norway

Denmark

Iceland

Netherlands

I pick those because of location and size of population.

Thanks

OK Ill go through them in order...

Ireland:

Sweden:

That would be the peace loving country that developed the first stealth warships and have sunk a number of USSR submarines that entered their territorial waters.

Norway:

One of the original members of NATO with the second best artic army in the world.

Denmark:

Iceland:

The country that kicked our butts in the cod wars.

Netherlands:

Again one of the original members of NATO and thus protected.

Want to try again?

Try again? Repeat the question or just re-word it. I'll just repeat it.

When was the last time any of those countries was the victim of an unprovoked attack/act of war?

If the answer is "during the war" then say so. Also, it's great that you start that by essentially saying "when we were the agressor..."

Did I say you were stuck in the past before?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The point he was making, that seems to have completely missed you, was very simple.

They all have very good armed forces to protect themselves.

Your notion that you need bugger all means your open to having all your assets "BORROWED"

How does your peace loving,non military country propose to defend your fishing waters ???

How do you propose to protect your VITAL oil installations ??

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"The point he was making, that seems to have completely missed you, was very simple.

They all have very good armed forces to protect themselves.

Your notion that you need bugger all means your open to having all your assets "BORROWED"

How does your peace loving,non military country propose to defend your fishing waters ???

How do you propose to protect your VITAL oil installations ??

And the point which has passed you by too is that our planned defence budget is ample to have a Scottish defence force and defend what we need to defend.

Once again your assumption seems to be that if it's not from the UK, then it simply cannot be. All or nothing. You have to get your head aroun the fact that small independent countries can have small defence forces and manage just fine.

Our military friend is simply caught in the old fashioned British power and clout and strength etc. days gone by.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

One Type 45 destroyer £1 billion Sterling.

That does not include any running cost or training of men to operate it.

Your £3 billion budget would have a Navy using what kind of vessels to patrol an area bigger than Scotlands land mass.

"think we going to need a bigger boat"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Its a decision for the Scots, I will be gutted if Scotland leaves the Union, to join another (E)Union and lose more power. I consider myself British and proud

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

This forum should be suspended untill the rugby is finished; - shame on you mods!!

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"One Type 45 destroyer £1 billion Sterling.

That does not include any running cost or training of men to operate it.

Your £3 billion budget would have a Navy using what kind of vessels to patrol an area bigger than Scotlands land mass.

"think we going to need a bigger boat"

Okay. Think this way. It's hardly a vote loser. The 3bn budget is widely accepted as being more than enough. You are coming from the point of view of Britain. Bigger = more powerful and more clout and blah blah blah. Personally, and in the opinion of many people here, we don't need any more than that. The trick is not galavanting around the world attacking and provoking innocent people.

This menatality is just another reason we not "better together".

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By *dub67Man over a year ago

glasgow

The EU we are already a member. Why should it be taken away . Nobody said anything when East Germany came into the EU. When the Berlin Wall came down.

This like an argument About toys if you vote yes we will take them away.

Vote no and you can keep them. Well the child has grown up. And wants it's own freedom and independence.

We are a strong proud country. Maybe it's time to stand up and be counted.

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By *ScotsmanMan over a year ago

ayrshire

its o no brainer .England is much more over populated for its size than Scotland . the correct answer is yes but if its a no then wrong answer but Wont make any odds to me whatever happens if i want to be selfish aboot it. x x X

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"Its a decision for the Scots, I will be gutted if Scotland leaves the Union, to join another (E)Union and lose more power. I consider myself British and proud"

I respect your option but nationalism shouldn't feature in the decision. Pride, flags etc is all very well and good but this is serious and the union simply doesn't work for us any longer.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

Duncan, in the previous thread i asked why an independent country would allow another country to set its interest rates by virtue of having the same currency..?

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

OK Ill go through them again putting in dates and spelling out the realities for the obtuse, thats you Duncan

Ireland:

Sweden:

That would be the peace loving country that developed the first stealth warships and have sunk a number of USSR submarines that entered their territorial waters. The Swedes have never admitted to sinking foreign submarines but do acknowledge many incidents where they have dropped depth charges from ships and helicopters. Look up the incident in first 2 weeks of October 1982. Or even better try looking up the 'Soviet submarine S-363' incident.

Norway:

One of the original members of NATO with the second best artic army in the world.

Norway is part of NATO and an attack on any member state is an attack on all.

Denmark:

It is quite a well known open secret in the military world that even now single Danes have a habit of going out into the wilderness with one of their fighting knives and gutting russian border guards they find on their own. The Danes are not fluffy bunnies and would make the meanest Glaswegian, hilander, para or commando look like kindergarten cubs!

Iceland:

The country that kicked our butts in the cod wars. 1976

Netherlands:

Again one of the original members of NATO and thus protected. As I have stated above attacking any NATO country is an attack on all NATO countries.

Just to be clear you will also leave NATO when you Leave the UK.

Want to try again?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"The EU we are already a member. Why should it be taken away . Nobody said anything when East Germany came into the EU. When the Berlin Wall came down.

its not the same as an 'independent' Scotland though, East and West Germany were still one country under different governance..

at present Scotland is part of the UK..

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"Duncan, in the previous thread i asked why an independent country would allow another country to set its interest rates by virtue of having the same currency..?

And? Did I not answer it? It's our currency too you know. Bank of England is ours too. You know that Bank of England is independent of government right?

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

"The EU we are already a member. Why should it be taken away . Nobody said anything when East Germany came into the EU. When the Berlin Wall came down.

This like an argument About toys if you vote yes we will take them away.

Vote no and you can keep them. Well the child has grown up. And wants it's own freedom and independence.

We are a strong proud country. Maybe it's time to stand up and be counted. "

And if you chose to go, good luck and I'm sure the rest of the UK would wish you well.

What people are curious about is the detail if the yes bots wins. All I have heard is rhetoric and dogma, no meat on the bones and an insistence that whenever anyone says something that doesn't fit well with the rhetoric it is no more than bullying.

I have visions of the aftermath of the Independence Party. People staggering round, still hungover, shrugging their shoulders and saying, " now what?"

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"OK Ill go through them again putting in dates and spelling out the realities for the obtuse, thats you Duncan

Ireland:

Sweden:

Norway:

One of the original members of NATO with the second best artic army in the world.

Norway is part of NATO and an attack on any member state is an attack on all.

Denmark:

Iceland:

The country that kicked our butts in the cod wars. 1976

Netherlands:

Again one of the original members of NATO and thus protected. As I have stated above attacking any NATO country is an attack on all NATO countries.

Just to be clear you will also leave NATO when you Leave the UK.

Want to try again?

Ok you think we are leaving NATO too? This forum is like going back in time a year for those of us in Scotland. So tiring.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

I have visions of the aftermath of the Independence Party. People staggering round, still hungover, shrugging their shoulders and saying, " now what?"

We are getting to the silly and frankly insultin stage I see. Because you are woefully uninformed, you think we are.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Duncan, in the previous thread i asked why an independent country would allow another country to set its interest rates by virtue of having the same currency..?

And? Did I not answer it? It's our currency too you know. Bank of England is ours too. You know that Bank of England is independent of government right?"

so an 'independent' Scotland has its interest rates set by the Bank of England, If and its a big If the status quo remains..

an institution which is still under the control of whichever resident of number 11 despite the pretence..

when push comes to shove they will look after the majority..

look at Carney's statement about 7% unemployment and a rise in the BofE base rate last summer and the recent u turn when the tories clocked on that interest rises this far before the 2015 election will be disastrous for them..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We are all so ill informed,because every single question put to the YES group is answered in exactly the same way.

"IT WILL ALL BE FINE"

"EVERYONE ONE ELSE IS WRONG"

"JUST WAIT AND SEE"

No answers,just the same old garbage and not a single ounce of evidencial proof.

I do hope it will be alright on the night.

Though from what evidence I have heard up to now,The yes group have as much idea of whats next as I do.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

Ok you think we are leaving NATO too? This forum is like going back in time a year for those of us in Scotland. So tiring.

No, I dont think, I know.

I keep telling you the people who count, that is the people who run the UK, the EU, the multinational (US) businesses who have based their UK operations in Scotland are all telling you that if you divorce the UK you divorce them too. Like it or not those powerful people also control NATO so it does not take a genius to work out that you will be out of NATO too.

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

I have visions of the aftermath of the Independence Party. People staggering round, still hungover, shrugging their shoulders and saying, " now what?"

We are getting to the silly and frankly insultin stage I see. Because you are woefully uninformed, you think we are. "

What was insulting about that? Are you being serious? You felt insulted? Really?

Anyway, instead of deflecting and since you seem to know so much about it, could you please educate us woefully uninformed idiots? I use the word idiot as that is what some scots were calling the English on another thread, the same thread where you insulted me directly.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

As the BoE is independent of govt, exactly how do you propose to split it?

Scotland will take her share of £3bn-worth of assets but the BoE will remain in the UK in its entirety.

Once you vote yes, the deal is out of your hands.

The UK doesn't have a vote in the Independence referendum, iScotland will not have a voice in the UK general election in 2015 where a mandate will be required in order that CU be offered to Scotland. Given the responses on here that isn't going to happen. The pound is the currency of the UK, if you vote to leave you leave it behind. At least, you leave behind the right to control the currency. All the shouting about it "being ours" doesn't matter a jot in the face of that reality.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Duncan, in the previous thread i asked why an independent country would allow another country to set its interest rates by virtue of having the same currency..?

And? Did I not answer it? It's our currency too you know. Bank of England is ours too. You know that Bank of England is independent of government right?"

Leave the union you lose the umbrella of the Bank of England you WILL NOT

Be members of the UK Central bank !

WHY would you want to be anyway Scotland is far richer than the UK , remember ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Dear Duncan.........

The rugby is on ffs!!!!

.....I hereby regrettably anounce that you are now Duncan Disorderly!

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By *athfindersCouple over a year ago

Hull

"OK Ill go through them again putting in dates and spelling out the realities for the obtuse, thats you Duncan

Ireland:

Sweden:

Norway:

One of the original members of NATO with the second best artic army in the world.

Norway is part of NATO and an attack on any member state is an attack on all.

Denmark:

Iceland:

The country that kicked our butts in the cod wars. 1976

Netherlands:

Again one of the original members of NATO and thus protected. As I have stated above attacking any NATO country is an attack on all NATO countries.

Just to be clear you will also leave NATO when you Leave the UK.

Want to try again?

Ok you think we are leaving NATO too? This forum is like going back in time a year for those of us in Scotland. So tiring.

I think everyone is tired of hearing the same rubbish. Numerous people have given valid opinion about where Scotland will stand and if it is not to your taste you reply with random answers completely deflecting the question at hand.

The reality is that no one knows exactly what will happen including you. You do not have all of the answers. You are following what closed minded people have said to you. Saying and doing are two different things and we will see exactly what will happen come September and following.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It does all seem a bit idealistic; all the sugar and none of the shit.

I'm a bit worried about the rammifications on the UK when Scotland do leave as we will never be able to give our banking industry the firm hand it needs with the partial loss of income from oil revenue.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

Would anyone sign up for a mortgage or other large financial risk based on the current lack of definates / this is the rate and for how long etc actually in writing with your house on the line..?

not just the guy organising the dealsaying 'it will be ok..'

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

"It does all seem a bit idealistic; all the sugar and none of the shit.

I read recently that the tax revenue from the oil makes up 1.5% of the total UK tax revenue, so it will be noticed but its not a deal breaker.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Duncan, in the previous thread i asked why an independent country would allow another country to set its interest rates by virtue of having the same currency..?

And? Did I not answer it? It's our currency too you know. Bank of England is ours too. You know that Bank of England is independent of government right?"

Put it like this, where is the oil? And it belongs to whom?

Hold that thought.

Now, where is the Bank of England? And it belongs to whom?

Have you seen groundhog day?

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

What was insulting about that? Are you being serious? You felt insulted? Really?

You implication that we are all the gonna get pished and the realise what a mistake we have made is ludicrous. We have been preparing for this for years.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

No, I dont think, I know.

The people who count are the uk are they? Your mentality is one of the any reasons I can't wait to live in an independent Scotland.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"Would anyone sign up for a mortgage or other large financial risk based on the current lack of definates / this is the rate and for how long etc actually in writing with your house on the line..?

not just the guy organising the dealsaying 'it will be ok..'"

There are as many definites in the union as there are in independence.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Put it like this, where is the oil? And it belongs to whom?

Hold that thought.

Now, where is the Bank of England? And it belongs to whom?

Have you seen groundhog day?

I'm not sure what wake I can do to make you see that the Bank of England is a partly owned Scottish asset.

Oil not yet taken out of the ground in Scottish waters, is Scotland's post independence. These are just facts. I'm sorry if it doesn't suit your way of thinking.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

dont bother asking the scots what they want to do.. Ask the English instead if we want them to stay or go

think you would find its goodbye scotland

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There are as many definites in the union as there are in independence. "

So your currency is going to definitely be ????

Your Eu membership is definitely going to be approved on what date ????

Your most important definates are not even on the "TO DO" list never mind definate.

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

What was insulting about that? Are you being serious? You felt insulted? Really?

You implication that we are all the gonna get pished and the realise what a mistake we have made is ludicrous. We have been preparing for this for years. "

I made no such suggestion and that really is a very poor attempt to deflect again. Very poor. Anyway, I await with interest your attempt to put some flesh on the bones rather than just more tub thumping. You said we are woefully uninformed, please, inform us of the detail. What is it that you KNOW you are voting for?

Please do not think this is an English person not wanting you to separate, I need to know detail before I know if It is good or not.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

The leader of the Scottish Conservatives today said he thought Scotland retaining the pound was a sensible idea. However he also pointed out that, in the event of a yes vote the momentum swings towards the UK.

His point being that whilst the UK has no voice in the referendum, an iScotland will have no voice in the UK general election - and that is where a Currency Union will be debated. Given that no main party leader is in favour, business leaders are against it, HM Treasury warns against it, the BoE says it won't work without full political union & the electorate appear to be against it, how will iScotland manage to convince an increasingly sceptical UK to sign up to a deal that puts her at such a disadvantage?

The answer is you won't. You will have no influence on the decision that will majorly affect your economy & future direction.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Put it like this, where is the oil? And it belongs to whom?

Hold that thought.

Now, where is the Bank of England? And it belongs to whom?

Have you seen groundhog day?

I'm not sure what wake I can do to make you see that the Bank of England is a partly owned Scottish asset.

Oil not yet taken out of the ground in Scottish waters, is Scotland's post independence. These are just facts. I'm sorry if it doesn't suit your way of thinking. "

Any oil in the ground is not Scotlands,only the potential revenue once brought ashore will be.

Now if some small minded chancellor was to give huge tax breaks to move the pipe line around hundred miles south

That would mean what exactly ????

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

Put it like this, where is the oil? And it belongs to whom?

Hold that thought.

Now, where is the Bank of England? And it belongs to whom?

Have you seen groundhog day?

I'm not sure what wake I can do to make you see that the Bank of England is a partly owned Scottish asset.

Oil not yet taken out of the ground in Scottish waters, is Scotland's post independence. These are just facts. I'm sorry if it doesn't suit your way of thinking. "

No, assets owned by the BoE are partly Scotland's, approx 9% of the £3Bn balance of assets & liabilities. The BoE belongs to the UK and will remain so.

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By *ScotsmanMan over a year ago

ayrshire

Put it like this, where is the oil? And it belongs to whom?

Hold that thought.

Now, where is the Bank of England? And it belongs to whom?

Have you seen groundhog day?

I'm not sure what wake I can do to make you see that the Bank of England is a partly owned Scottish asset.

Oil not yet taken out of the ground in Scottish waters, is Scotland's post independence. These are just facts. I'm sorry if it doesn't suit your way of thinking.

Any oil in the ground is not Scotlands,only the potential revenue once brought ashore will be.

Now if some small minded chancellor was to give huge tax breaks to move the pipe line around hundred miles south

That would mean what exactly ????"
. .WAR !

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

With a £3 billion budget for all military expenses ????

Be a bit one sided dont you think ????

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

what again

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

Ok you think we are leaving NATO too? This forum is like going back in time a year for those of us in Scotland. So tiring.

No, I dont think, I know.

Only a few weeks ago not being part of NATO was official SNP policy and had been for years.

The change cost them members and two MSPs.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"The leader of the Scottish Conservatives today said he thought Scotland retaining the pound was a sensible idea. However he also pointed out that, in the event of a yes vote the momentum swings towards the UK.

The answer is you won't. You will have no influence on the decision that will majorly affect your economy & future direction."

She. I know she has short hair and comfortable shoes but the leader of the Scottish conservatives is a she.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

The people who count are the uk are they? Your mentality is one of the any reasons I can't wait to live in an independent Scotland. "

My mentality! You are a total idiot!

The simple fact is I profoundly disagree with your position. Not because there is something in it for me, the simple fact is there isn't, in fact if I were to play the bugger you jack I'm OK game I would be saying and doing everything in my power to get Scotland to vote 'Yes'. However I am sure you are making a terrible mistake and am trying desperately to point out the inconsistencies of your position.

And just to make things very clear to you I would willing die to protect your freedom to make that mistake.

But hey I, and no doubt all the other loyal military people like me are a really good reason to want an independent Scotland without my type.

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By *ScotsmanMan over a year ago

ayrshire

"With a £3 billion budget for all military expenses ????

Be a bit one sided dont you think ????"
hand to hand combat

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

Sorry, my mistake, the Deputy Leader of Scots Conservatives Mr Jackson Carlaw.

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By *ScotsmanMan over a year ago

ayrshire

did you see what we did lo wembly ha. x X X

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

"did you see what we did lo wembly ha. x X X"

I saw what Rangers fans did to Manchester!

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Please do not think this is an English person not wanting you to separate, I need to know detail before I know if It is good or not."

Yes you did. And I have been heavily involved in debates on here on the issues and can hardly be accused of avoiding the issues!

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

The answer is you won't. You will have no influence on the decision that will majorly affect your economy & future direction.

She. I know she has short hair and comfortable shoes but the leader of the Scottish conservatives is a she. "

Is this the kind of homophobic comment which will be encouraged in any Separate Scotland?

Quite disgraceful.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"Sorry, my mistake, the Deputy Leader of Scots Conservatives Mr Jackson Carlaw. "

He's a failed second hand car salesman.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

Please do not think this is an English person not wanting you to separate, I need to know detail before I know if It is good or not.

Yes you did. And I have been heavily involved in debates on here on the issues and can hardly be accused of avoiding the issues!"

Avoiding the awkward questions though.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The answer is you won't. You will have no influence on the decision that will majorly affect your economy & future direction.

She. I know she has short hair and comfortable shoes but the leader of the Scottish conservatives is a she.

Is this the kind of homophobic comment which will be encouraged in any Separate Scotland?

Quite disgraceful."

What Onny?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Why leave we don't want you to I was born in England but proud to be a member of the united Kingdom that includes Wales Northern Ireland and Scotland

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

My mentality! You are a total idiot!

And just to make things very clear to you I would willing die to protect your freedom to make that mistake.

But hey I, and no doubt all the other loyal military people like me are a really good reason to want an independent Scotland without my type."

Yes your mentatlity. You are a dinosaur, living in the past wishing you were still and imperial power. For every scot with an inferiority complex, there is no doubt and English person with a superiority complex.

We don't need the Great British empire or you or your weapons of mass destruction to protect us. Thanks for the offer to die for us but no thanks all the same.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

The answer is you won't. You will have no influence on the decision that will majorly affect your economy & future direction.

She. I know she has short hair and comfortable shoes but the leader of the Scottish conservatives is a she.

Is this the kind of homophobic comment which will be encouraged in any Separate Scotland?

Quite disgraceful.

What Onny?

Ruth is a lesbian .

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The answer is you won't. You will have no influence on the decision that will majorly affect your economy & future direction.

She. I know she has short hair and comfortable shoes but the leader of the Scottish conservatives is a she.

Is this the kind of homophobic comment which will be encouraged in any Separate Scotland?

Quite disgraceful.

What Onny?

Ruth is a lesbian ."

So?

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

The answer is you won't. You will have no influence on the decision that will majorly affect your economy & future direction.

She. I know she has short hair and comfortable shoes but the leader of the Scottish conservatives is a she.

Is this the kind of homophobic comment which will be encouraged in any Separate Scotland?

Quite disgraceful.

What Onny?

Ruth is a lesbian .

So?"

Read the whole post.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

Onny, i once ran into some supporters of the SnG political party at Bannockburn.I'd never heard of them before. They openly claimed Scotland for the 'ethnically Scottish' and said gays wouldn't be welcome in (their version of) an Independent Scotland. Mind you, these were black shirt wearing clowns who delighted in burning the Union Flag on the hill at midnight.

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

Please do not think this is an English person not wanting you to separate, I need to know detail before I know if It is good or not.

Yes you did. And I have been heavily involved in debates on here on the issues and can hardly be accused of avoiding the issues!"

No I didn't and that really is a pathetic thing to say and also totally irrelevant.

I am now accusing you of avoiding the detail, I have asked you for detail twice. You have twice made an awful attempt to deflect the question. You gave said that we were woefully informed so I asked you for detail.

For the THIRD time, please. Inform ups of the detail. No tub thumping, no deflecting, just detail. Please let me know the things that you KNOW you are voting for.to make it easier for you, start with currency. What is it that WILL happen on that front?

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

No I didn't and that really is a pathetic thing to say and also totally irrelevant.

Seriously? What? What question have you asked? What details do you need? Be specific. I'm not running through the whole white paper!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Diversionary tactic :

Are Scotland any good at Cricket?

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By *athfindersCouple over a year ago

Hull

My mentality! You are a total idiot!

And just to make things very clear to you I would willing die to protect your freedom to make that mistake.

But hey I, and no doubt all the other loyal military people like me are a really good reason to want an independent Scotland without my type.

We don't need the Great British empire or you or your weapons of mass destruction to protect us. Thanks for the offer to die for us but no thanks all the same. "

Wow you really are a tit. This will definitely be worth the forum ban.

I can't believe how stupid you actually are. All you talk about is how oppressed you have been all your life and that you will be so much better off without the English pulling you back.

Remember that the UK is made up of more than just us English arse holes. Your kind of hatred for the English is plain for everyone to see. You don't want Independence for the right reasons. You have been brought up on this mistaken belief that anything English is shit and all we do is hold you back.

You are so narrow minded it is untrue and your downfall will be this ridiculous ideology that everything will be ok once its just ''US''

. Get a grip man and stop being such an ignorant arse!!!

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

No I didn't and that really is a pathetic thing to say and also totally irrelevant.

Seriously? What? What question have you asked? What details do you need? Be specific. I'm not running through the whole white paper!"

The question is quite clearly there,I have just checked. I will write it out again for you. Fourth time lucky, here goes!!!

Please give me the DETAILS of what you KNOW you are voting for with regard to currency. What detail is set in stone on that issue?

Try to remember, definate only, no rhetoric and try really really hard not to deflect or avoid the question this time.

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By *athfindersCouple over a year ago

Hull

No I didn't and that really is a pathetic thing to say and also totally irrelevant.

Seriously? What? What question have you asked? What details do you need? Be specific. I'm not running through the whole white paper!

The question is quite clearly there,I have just checked. I will write it out again for you. Fourth time lucky, here goes!!!

Please give me the DETAILS of what you KNOW you are voting for with regard to currency. What detail is set in stone on that issue?

Try to remember, definate only, no rhetoric and try really really hard not to deflect or avoid the question this time."

Your wasting your time. He has no idea nor does his party!!!

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Would anyone sign up for a mortgage or other large financial risk based on the current lack of definates / this is the rate and for how long etc actually in writing with your house on the line..?

not just the guy organising the dealsaying 'it will be ok..'

There are as many definites in the union as there are in independence. "

take it that like myself you would'nt sign such a deal either then..

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"Onny, i once ran into some supporters of the SnG political party at Bannockburn.I'd never heard of them before. They openly claimed Scotland for the 'ethnically Scottish' and said gays wouldn't be welcome in (their version of) an Independent Scotland. Mind you, these were black shirt wearing clowns who delighted in burning the Union Flag on the hill at midnight."

Siol nan Gaidheal make the BNP look like moderates.

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

I'm still waiting. Currency detail please. Definite only.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"Yes your mentatlity. You are a dinosaur, living in the past wishing you were still and imperial power. For every scot with an inferiority complex, there is no doubt and English person with a superiority complex.

We don't need the Great British empire or you or your weapons of mass destruction to protect us. Thanks for the offer to die for us but no thanks all the same. "

Thank you for that piece of vitriol, it was most welcome and of course totally wrong, like most of what you say.

Just to put the record straight, I am not English, I am British!

My mother was born on the Cork Kerry border, my father was born in Dublin and all my family bar my brothers are Irish born and bred. I even went to school in Ireland! I have a family history of fenians dating back hundreds of years, however I was born in England and bar school and work overseas have lived here all my life. I fully understand to a small minded Scott like yourself who can't see past his kilt, sporran and saltaire that everyone south of Hadrian's Wall is a sasanach but some of us are really part of something bigger call the United Kingdom of Great Britain and are British! And believe we are better together as one.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

Siol nan Gaidheal make the BNP look like moderates."

They were certainly unpleasant, i was thankful we were all quite heavily armed (medieval kit so swords etc) to be honest. Definitely looking for a fight as they'd come into the 'English' camp and started gobbing off. Most of that camp were Scots BTW.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

The question is quite clearly there,I have just checked. I will write it out again for you. Fourth time lucky, here goes!!!

Please give me the DETAILS of what you KNOW you are voting for with regard to currency. What detail is set in stone on that issue?

Try to remember, definate only, no rhetoric and try really really hard not to deflect or avoid the question this time."

Definites on currency? Ok

The pound is ours so we will use it either in or out of a currency union. Preferesbly in.

We are quite a rich country so financially speaking we will be okay regardless. So hopefully enough people see this to not let uncertainty over policy affect their vote.

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

The question is quite clearly there,I have just checked. I will write it out again for you. Fourth time lucky, here goes!!!

Please give me the DETAILS of what you KNOW you are voting for with regard to currency. What detail is set in stone on that issue?

Try to remember, definate only, no rhetoric and try really really hard not to deflect or avoid the question this time.

Definites on currency? Ok

The pound is ours so we will use it either in or out of a currency union. Preferesbly in.

We are quite a rich country so financially speaking we will be okay regardless. So hopefully enough people see this to not let uncertainty over policy affect their vote. "

I asked for you to give a definite. As soon as you said "either" you said that you don't know.

Is knowing the detail not important to you? If it were me, I would like to know what I'm voting for.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Thank you for that piece of vitriol, it was most welcome and of course totally wrong, like most of what you say.

Just to put the record straight, I am not English, I am British!

Your previous insistence on calling yes voters "bigots" and today referring to them as "cancerous" tells me all I need to know about you and your rabid British nationalism. I know you are a minority so won't allow it to sour the debate too much.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

I don't understand, if as you state you are a rich Nation why would you not set up a Central Bank & issue your own Scottish pound?

Why would you be determined to hang on to a currency you do not control & will have Bank of England all over it?

Surely a Bank of Scotland Central Bank & currency would

be better than your entire economy hanging on a whim of a foreign Govt?

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

I asked for you to give a definite. As soon as you said "either" you said that you don't know.

Is knowing the detail not important to you? If it were me, I would like to know what I'm voting for."

Are there definites in your politics? Will the uk be in the eu in 5 years? What will the tax rate be in 10 years? Who will be the prime minister? What will the policy be on Syria?

Definites would be great but it's unrealistic. We have a plan of what we want. We have rationale for it and expert back up. We have fallback plans too. I say again, we have been preparing for this for years.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

The question is quite clearly there,I have just checked. I will write it out again for you. Fourth time lucky, here goes!!!

Please give me the DETAILS of what you KNOW you are voting for with regard to currency. What detail is set in stone on that issue?

Try to remember, definate only, no rhetoric and try really really hard not to deflect or avoid the question this time.

Definites on currency? Ok

The pound is ours so we will use it either in or out of a currency union. Preferesbly in.

We are quite a rich country so financially speaking we will be okay regardless. So hopefully enough people see this to not let uncertainty over policy affect their vote.

I asked for you to give a definite. As soon as you said "either" you said that you don't know.

Is knowing the detail not important to you? If it were me, I would like to know what I'm voting for."

The Nats aren't voting FOR anything - they're voting AGAINST the UK.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

I asked for you to give a definite. As soon as you said "either" you said that you don't know.

Is knowing the detail not important to you? If it were me, I would like to know what I'm voting for.

Are there definites in your politics? Will the uk be in the eu in 5 years? What will the tax rate be in 10 years? Who will be the prime minister? What will the policy be on Syria?

think its safe to say that 'we' will still have the pound in 5 years, as to whom the 'we' will be thats another question..

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"I don't understand, if as you state you are a rich Nation why would you not set up a Central Bank & issue your own Scottish pound?

Why would you be determined to hang on to a currency you do not control & will have Bank of England all over it?

Surely a Bank of Scotland Central Bank & currency would

be better than your entire economy hanging on a whim of a foreign Govt?"
He (Duncan) actually thinks that Scotland will be able to function without a lender of last resort, or that at least is what he is implying.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"I don't understand, if as you state you are a rich Nation why would you not set up a Central Bank & issue your own Scottish pound?

Why would you be determined to hang on to a currency you do not control & will have Bank of England all over it?

Surely a Bank of Scotland Central Bank & currency would

be better than your entire economy hanging on a whim of a foreign Govt?"

I know you don't understand. We are going round in circles so let's leave it there. Just know that a lot of people in Scotland are going to vote for independence and are quite comfortable with the options open to us. Whatever we choose post independence, it is going to be vastly better than crossing our fingers every four years and hoping another country doesn't vote Tory on our behalf again.

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By *athfindersCouple over a year ago

Hull

I asked for you to give a definite. As soon as you said "either" you said that you don't know.

Is knowing the detail not important to you? If it were me, I would like to know what I'm voting for.

Are there definites in your politics? Will the uk be in the eu in 5 years? What will the tax rate be in 10 years? Who will be the prime minister? What will the policy be on Syria?

Preparing for years yet you can't specify anything that is in place???

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We have a plan of what we want. We have rationale for it and expert back up. We have fallback plans too. I say again, we have been preparing for this for years. "

And the rest of the UK's plan isn't going to match your plan, best get your head around the fact that you're not going to be getting it all your own way...

Fall back plans, preparing for years, all starting to sound a bit Waco now…

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"I don't understand, if as you state you are a rich Nation why would you not set up a Central Bank & issue your own Scottish pound?

Why would you be determined to hang on to a currency you do not control & will have Bank of England all over it?

Surely a Bank of Scotland Central Bank & currency would

be better than your entire economy hanging on a whim of a foreign Govt?

That's right. Give up.

Re 'vote Tory'. Don't forget it was the SNP who brought Thatcher to power.

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

I asked for you to give a definite. As soon as you said "either" you said that you don't know.

Is knowing the detail not important to you? If it were me, I would like to know what I'm voting for.

Are there definites in your politics? Will the uk be in the eu in 5 years? What will the tax rate be in 10 years? Who will be the prime minister? What will the policy be on Syria?

When we have a vote on those things I will look at policy, detail of policy and the nuts and bolts of policy. I will vote accordingly. You seem to be voting willing to vote yes and then find out afterwards what you have voted for! That seems strange and "woefully uninformed" to me.

You say you have been preparing for this for years, to me that shows a massive level of incompetence if after all these years they have still not sorted out such a basic thing!

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

I'm glad you are happy to vote for independence without having the relevant facts to hand, i would be screaming for hard information about the direction of the economy, about EU membership,about many things the yes campaign are vague about.

I do hope you manage to swing enough voters to take that step with you as i firmly believe the UK will be better of without Scotland in the long term.

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

"I don't understand, if as you state you are a rich Nation why would you not set up a Central Bank & issue your own Scottish pound?

Why would you be determined to hang on to a currency you do not control & will have Bank of England all over it?

Surely a Bank of Scotland Central Bank & currency would

be better than your entire economy hanging on a whim of a foreign Govt?

That's right. Give up.

Re 'vote Tory'. Don't forget it was the SNP who brought Thatcher to power."

And it was Scotland who gave us brown and Darling!

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By *athfindersCouple over a year ago

Hull

"I'm glad you are happy to vote for independence without having the relevant facts to hand, i would be screaming for hard information about the direction of the economy, about EU membership,about many things the yes campaign are vague about.

I do hope you manage to swing enough voters to take that step with you as i firmly believe the UK will be better of without Scotland in the long term."

Completely agree

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I know you don't understand. We are going round in circles so let's leave it there. Just know that a lot of people in Scotland are going to vote for independence and are quite comfortable with the options open to us. Whatever we choose post independence, it is going to be vastly better than crossing our fingers every four years and hoping another country doesn't vote Tory on our behalf again. "

See this I totally agree with. I said before that this is a solution to a larger problem.

Everything about the current system stinks and I think most Brits no matter which country we are from will agree. The parties, the voting system, the way it all works is outdated and no longer works.

I can understand wanting to leave but really we should all be banding together to make the changes needed to sort things out. Maybe I'm being too idealistic now.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Debate here on this forum will always be stifled until you get it in your heads that england doesn't own anything. The UK does. And you can accept that it is an equal partnership and split things fairly or you can admit what we have all known which is that things are not fair and not even. It seeps through everything - "not allowed" "can't have."

This is hopefully going to happen and all we want is fairness. I understand the doubt about the the currency and we will wait and see on that. A lot of knee jerk "how dare they" stuff going on but I believe this will settle over time and people realise all we wanted was to have our own parliament and taxes and spending. We are accused of wanting to keep the good and get rid of the bad. But it is said as if that is a bad thing - "how dare you want what is good and not want what is bad!" But you are forgetting we own the good. It's ours. All we want is fair share.

A lot of people seem to be okay with the situation in Westminster. How subservient is this? Get up off your knees and do something about it! He is selling off your nhs to his pals and associates and all I hear is "but he says this is so, so it must be so". Who is working for who here? Democracy is for the people. We are hopefully gonna so something to make that a little more real.

An as for those who wish negative on us for having the audacity to leave the mighty empire, good luck with all you shiny weapons. You are living in the past and we are hopefully gonna move on to something better.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

See this I totally agree with. I said before that this is a solution to a larger problem.

Everything about the current system stinks and I think most Brits no matter which country we are from will agree. The parties, the voting system, the way it all works is outdated and no longer works.

I can understand wanting to leave but really we should all be banding together to make the changes needed to sort things out. Maybe I'm being too idealistic now."

I have to second this... It simply seems that some Scottish people would prefer to take a chance on doing things for themselves...because they're a little tired of the status quo.

It seems sensible that Scotland would prefer an amicable divorce...a phasing out of political and economic institutions perhaps... Perhaps, it is those thin bits of thread holding the two countries together if Team Yes wins, that may quite possibly be the root of a reconciliation in the future, should both countries agree to end the trial separation and try again.

I hope it's a risk worth taking and can understand the passions of those who wish to take it.

Its not usual for folks to cast their votes based on instinct or historical allegiances...whichever way they decide...

I hope wise choices are made and both the UK and Scotland prosper, no matter the outcome.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

" Your previous insistence on calling yes voters "bigots" and today referring to them as "cancerous" tells me all I need to know about you and your rabid British nationalism. I know you are a minority so won't allow it to sour the debate too much. "

Yes I called your SNP nationalist attitude bigoted, check back through all your posts and tell me that you would not find many of them offensive and bigoted if they were directed at the Scotts and Holyrood rather than at the English and Westminster?

At the same time consider the cankerous mindset you display and your previously declared position that should you fail to get a 'Yes' vote you will continue in your quest to gain independence. Then consider what that means for generations to come until you get your way. Does that sound healthy to you? Does it possibly sound like a malignant festering growth in the body politic? Do you think that maybe my description of your nationalism as a cancer that requires cutting out before it does too much damage is really quite a good analogy?

Maybe the reason you keep refusing to acknowledge any of the points I and others make and keep lashing out at me

in particular is because you know we are cutting a little too close to the bone for your comfort. Or have I got that wrong too?

Maybe you would like to take a little time to think about what is being said here before you reply, or just maybe you should go away and do a little historical reading and find out why heralds were so highly valued in medieval times and compare your reactions here to those of the old Barons when they heard news they did not like.

Dont shoot the messenger because you dont like the message!

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

See this I totally agree with. I said before that this is a solution to a larger problem.

Everything about the current system stinks and I think most Brits no matter which country we are from will agree. The parties, the voting system, the way it all works is outdated and no longer works.

I can understand wanting to leave but really we should all be banding together to make the changes needed to sort things out. Maybe I'm being too idealistic now."

I think so. It's done. Scotland is a country and we are going in a different direction. If I google Britishness I see nothing I recognise at all or have any connection to.

I respect your point of view but it is I think idealistic to think that if we vote no and, perhaps vote labour and just hope it's different this time.

We are voting for different things. It's over as a polictical union. I genuinely look forward to stronger social union

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

I have to second this... It simply seems that some Scottish people would prefer to take a chance on doing things for themselves...because they're a little tired of the status quo.

I hope it's a risk worth taking and can understand the passions of those who wish to take it.

Its not usual for folks to cast their votes based on instinct or historical allegiances...whichever way they decide...

I hope wise choices are made and both the UK and Scotland prosper, no matter the outcome.

Thanks. Good post.

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

"Debate here on this forum will always be stifled until you get it in your heads that england doesn't own anything. The UK does. And you can accept that it is an equal partnership and split things fairly or you can admit what we have all known which is that things are not fair and not even. It seeps through everything - "not allowed" "can't have."

Maybe debate is a little stifled but that us because there is nothing to debate. YOU have no idea on any detail despite preparing for years so how can it be debated.

I have seen no one on here say that England owns anything, always the UK. I don't know where you are getting that notion from but I do understand that it may help your justification process.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

tbh im getting a little bored of it now, and the vote cant come soon enough, for good or bad, the choice will be made, the fall out either way will have to be lived with.

i just hope, whichever side of the choice the vote lands on, those involved are happy with the decision made.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Maybe debate is a little stifled but that us because there is nothing to debate. YOU have no idea on any detail despite preparing for years so how can it be debated.

I have seen no one on here say that England owns anything, always the UK. I don't know where you are getting that notion from but I do understand that it may help your justification process. "

Ok. Thanks for your input. Let's see what happens.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"You need to look at the bigger picture. Don't simplify it. Ask yourself why the European Union would allow Croatia, Romania and Bulgaria to join but would actively refuse to allow Scotland in for the reason that we democratically chose to leave a nation that we are bigger and richer than and who is about to hold an in/out referendum on membership themselves. It makes no sense.

To allow us to be outside the eu, even for a day, is madness. How would the even work? Picture it for god sake!

That one statement that you have made is so laughable as to be deemed manic, If and when you declare yourselfs an independent Nation you no longer remain members of the european Union, Its in the European Constitution.

Oh and Scotland is bigger than the rest of the UK ?, dunno what map you are looking at.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Oh and Scotland is bigger than the rest of the UK ?, dunno what map you are looking at.

Okay I'll let everyone know.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Oh and Scotland is bigger than the rest of the UK ?, dunno what map you are looking at.

Okay I'll let everyone know. "

They should already know, Google EU constitution and Ordnance survey maps

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Can anyone explain when Scotland as an independent nation joined the EU ???

The United Kingdom is a member of this,but if Scotland decides to leave,then it becomes a "NEW" independent country.

As a new independent nation it will not be a signed member of the EU so will have to apply for membership,in much the same way as all the other "NEW" independent countries have.

They are not going to change the rules just to suit Scotland are they ????"

I hope this has been answered....

basically an independent scotland would have to negoiate with the EU... under the "copenhagen agreement".... basically scots law would have to be convergent with EU law (which is mostly is already) this is there the likes of Turkey fall down at the moment...

the 2nd part the scots (and has the yes side going "la la la not listening) don't like is the Currency stipulation .. which is when scotland reaches certain ecomonic criteria it must join the euro (the Scots seem to think they can get around this as sweden has an opt out at the time.... but that is not true of new countries)

then it must be agreed by all EU countries... again greece veto turkey at the moment,

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

They should already know, Google EU constitution and Ordnance survey maps"

And the land and sea territory map? Chuck that out too?

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Duncan, in the previous thread i asked why an independent country would allow another country to set its interest rates by virtue of having the same currency..?

And? Did I not answer it? It's our currency too you know. Bank of England is ours too. You know that Bank of England is independent of government right?"

Its okay... under duncan the the yes sides plan they will get one seat on the Bank of england Board..... problem is the rUK will get the other 9 seats on the board....

so why would they look out for Scotlands interests over that of rUK?

and that is why people are telling you in effect you have have your CU.... but at the price of losing fiscal and macroeconomic control of your own policy......

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Its okay... under duncan the the yes sides plan they will get one seat on the Bank of england Board..... problem is the rUK will get the other 9 seats on the board....

so why would they look out for Scotlands interests over that of rUK?

and that is why people are telling you in effect you have have your CU.... but at the price of losing fiscal and macroeconomic control of your own policy......

Oh no! We are gonna lose a percentage of something we have 0% off!

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Oh no! We are gonna lose a percentage of something we have 0% off!"

in which case why do you want a currency underwritten by something you have "0% off"?

see... the problem with the white paper you laud over duncan is that it says currency union is a "temporary arrangement"..... so where does that give rUK stability?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Omg, this thread is nearly full already!!

.....I'll catch you all 3 or 4 threads down the line - be safe

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

They should already know, Google EU constitution and Ordnance survey maps

And the land and sea territory map? Chuck that out too?"

Sorry but where does a sea map come into it, you said Scotland was bigger than the UK, That by default means land mass

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

They should already know, Google EU constitution and Ordnance survey maps

And the land and sea territory map? Chuck that out too?

Sorry but where does a sea map come into it, you said Scotland was bigger than the UK, That by default means land mass"

Mr Salmond insists on including sea cos he believes he can walk on water.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

They should already know, Google EU constitution and Ordnance survey maps

And the land and sea territory map? Chuck that out too?

Sorry but where does a sea map come into it, you said Scotland was bigger than the UK, That by default means land mass

Mr Salmond insists on including sea cos he believes he can walk on water."

"Jesus"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

All this independence freedom thing just reminds me of what would happen if a panda was freed from its cage and allowed to fend for itself.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"All this independence freedom thing just reminds me of what would happen if a panda was freed from its cage and allowed to fend for itself. "

A fiat ? it would rust away within six months

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"All this independence freedom thing just reminds me of what would happen if a panda was freed from its cage and allowed to fend for itself.

A fiat ? it would rust away within six months

No no no a Chinese fluffy one!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"All this independence freedom thing just reminds me of what would happen if a panda was freed from its cage and allowed to fend for itself.

A fiat ? it would rust away within six months

No no no a Chinese fluffy one!

Isn't there one up in Edinburgh zoo? Maybe they should give it its independence and see how the locals cope?

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"All this independence freedom thing just reminds me of what would happen if a panda was freed from its cage and allowed to fend for itself.

A fiat ? it would rust away within six months

No no no a Chinese fluffy one!

Isn't there one up in Edinburgh zoo? Maybe they should give it its independence and see how the locals cope?"

Those pandas cost £600,000 a year - roughly the same as Salmond's pie bill.

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Oh dear! It was all so reasonable when I left the debate. I realise Duncan has been holding the yes vote end up, almost single-handedly, but it really shouldn't descend into a bash Duncan thread. Many bashing one does not make for a fair fight.

He has been consistent in his responses so asking him the same questions several times are unlikely to shift his view.

Asking the questions is good - we all need to think about the. I propose we start the Fab We Want Answers Campaign ( I failed to come up with something I could call WANK) and start asking them away from this forum.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 22/02/14 01:51:10]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We all need knowledge.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A musical interlude follows.......

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"When my love said to me,

meet me down by the gallow tree,

for it's sad news that I bring

about this old town & all of it's suffering

some say troubles abound

some day soon they're gonna pull the old town down.

One day we'll return here

when the Belfast child sings again"

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By *heBirminghamWeekendMan over a year ago

here

Nice ...

... anyone know this one... sing along if you know the tune

Scots, wha hae wi Wallace bled

Scots, wham Bruce has aften led

Welcome to your gory bed

Or to victorie!

Now's the day, and now's the hour

See the front o battle lour

See approach proud Edward's power -

Chains and slaverie!

Wha wad be a traitor knave?

Wha can fill a coward's grave?

Wha sae base as be a slave?

Let him turn and flee!

Wha for Scotland's King and Law

Freedom's sword wad strongly draw

Freeman stand or freeman fa',

Let him follow me!

By Oppression's woes and pains

By your sons in servile chains

We will drain our dearest veins

But they shall be free!

Lay the proud usurpers low!

Tyrants fall in every foe!

Liberty's in every blow!

Let us do, or dee!

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

I'm singing Fly Me to the Moon if anyone wants to join in.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Wham Bruce?

Get real, never played for the mighty hammers, that's for sure;

Come on you irons!!!

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"Oh dear! It was all so reasonable when I left the debate. I realise Duncan has been holding the yes vote end up, almost single-handedly, but it really shouldn't descend into a bash Duncan thread. Many bashing one does not make for a fair fight.

He has been consistent in his responses so asking him the same questions several times are unlikely to shift his view.

Much of the critical questioning has come from people who don't have a dog in this fight.

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