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Independant Scotland...I'd like to vote too
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I feel the choice for Scotland to become independent should not be the Scots choice alone, the English should get a vote as well.
Although I feel the Scots will not vote for independence, the English would vote for Scotland to become independent.
This would be a good thing for English/Scottish relations as well.
I may be generalising, but the Scots seem to harbour a long standing feeling of resentment to the English for governing them, give them independence and we will all get on a lot better.
Thoughts? |
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By *andG4moreCouple
over a year ago
Dunbartonshire |
"There is also a great misconception that all Scottish people resent the English when in fact this is not the case!!  "
Its not for goodness sake why did nobody tell me lol
Just kidding dont mind an englishman just could not eat a whole one lol
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There is also a great misconception that all Scottish people resent the English when in fact this is not the case!!
Prove it then. Show us the love  
Anytime lol!! Xx "
Aw this is good news 
I declare this a "hug a pommy" day today. Come on you Scots , adopt your very own wee English folk  |
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"There is also a great misconception that all Scottish people resent the English when in fact this is not the case!!
Prove it then. Show us the love
Anytime lol!! Xx
Aw this is good news
I declare this a "hug a pommy" day today. Come on you Scots , adopt your very own wee English folk "
In the spirit of the thread, I'm sending a big hug to everyone north of the border.
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"I feel the choice for Scotland to become independent should not be the Scots choice alone, the English should get a vote as well.
Although I feel the Scots will not vote for independence, the English would vote for Scotland to become independent.
This would be a good thing for English/Scottish relations as well.
I may be generalising, but the Scots seem to harbour a long standing feeling of resentment to the English for governing them, give them independence and we will all get on a lot better.
Thoughts? "
i have always said that if the scots get a vote on if they become independent, which is their right.... then the rest of the uk should get a vote on whether they get to keep pound sterling.....
I dont see why they should get to keep all the good bits as a right if they decide to move on.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I'm British, and if they want to break up Britain then I want to have my vote count as well..!!!
But I also want to see the sums - which nobody seems to have released yet. If Scotland leaves, then just how much of their share of Britain's national debt are they taking on board..? Or do they expect to walk away with no baggage....?
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honestly in this day and age! no single country should be independent !! we should all club together for the advancement of "Mankind"!!! all this splitting us into nice little sections is what got us into this mess in the first place !!!
old thinking needs to go !!
we need new thinking if the species is gonna survive  |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
".....
i have always said that if the scots get a vote on if they become independent, which is their right.... then the rest of the uk should get a vote on whether they get to keep pound sterling.....
I dont see why they should get to keep all the good bits as a right if they decide to move on...."
Bear in mind that, in the increasingly unlikely event of a Yes vote, any negotiations will have to be approved by the UK Parliament, a Parliament which will have been elected after the Separation vote but before the negotiations vote. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"I am looking forward to getting a job at the new border patrol post North of Carlisle - customs inspections and currency exchange..."
Apply early and you might get one of the machine guns. |
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"I am looking forward to getting a job at the new border patrol post North of Carlisle - customs inspections and currency exchange...
Apply early and you might get one of the machine guns."
I have one already darling... |
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"There is also a great misconception that all Scottish people resent the English when in fact this is not the case!! "
i think they do..
i was talking to a smelly sock the other day and he told me that all scots support two national football teams...
Scotland and any team that plays against England.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I rather like the idea of being resented by the Disadvantaged men in Skirts
This could be one reason why SOME scottish people dont like SOME english arseho.....sorry people  "
It could well be, But then again us English have always been able to laugh at ourselves and sometimes forget that others dont have that Sense of Humour |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"You can vote if you wish, just pop up north buy or rent a house and keep it till September  "
It doesn't work. Thon wee tadger Alan Cumming tried it and was telt, politely, to fuck aff. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"You can vote if you wish, just pop up north buy or rent a house and keep it till September
It doesn't work. Thon wee tadger Alan Cumming tried it and was telt, politely, to fuck aff."
Thought he was a yank now? anyhow shhhh, think of all the cheep houses you can buy up in October |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"You can vote if you wish, just pop up north buy or rent a house and keep it till September
It doesn't work. Thon wee tadger Alan Cumming tried it and was telt, politely, to fuck aff.
Thought he was a yank now? anyhow shhhh, think of all the cheep houses you can buy up in October"
"Scottish actor Alan Cumming has reportedly spent almost £3 million on a four-storey townhouse in New York months after being told he was not eligible to vote in the independence referendum because his Edinburgh flat is not his main address.
The Hollywood actor bought an £80,000 property in the capital’s Polwarth area ahead of this year’s historic vote, saying he did not “want to miss the opportunity to make an independent Scotland a reality”.
But electoral officials told him he would not be able to vote Yes because he spends most of his time at his New York address."
http://www.scotsman.com/news/celebrity/alan-cumming-purchases-3m-manhattan-home-1-3256062 |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"I am looking forward to getting a job at the new border patrol post North of Carlisle - customs inspections and currency exchange..."
they have annouced that at Berwick the checkpoint will be called "Geoffrey" on the southern side..... and "Rab" on the northern side |
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Most common misconceptions about Scottish independence are;
1. We somehow can't afford it. How? We pay more in than we get back. It's a fact. Why is this still being questioned? The figure are there. Look at them! (You tube "economic case for Scottish independence by Ivan McKee or go directly to the GERS figures.)
2. It's anti English or there is resentment against English people. Any resentment is against fellow scots who seem to think we are not worthy or able to look after ourselves. Or the Westminster governments who do not represent us or act in out interests. This is no more anti English than promotion of gay rights is anti straight. The system is not currently democratic.
3. That English should get a vote. Try saying that to a partner when you wanna leave them. Darling, I'm leaving you. Do you agree? No? Ok I'll stay then.
And for goodness sake the currency is ours too! |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
And for goodness sake the currency is ours too!"
actually no... the Currency is the domain of the United Kingdom and underwrited by the Bank of England....
if Scotland leave the UK, they dont have any automatic right to the Currency.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But electoral officials told him he would not be able to vote Yes because he spends most of his time at his New York address.""
Even better, We can buy all the cheep English houses as pseudo Scot's rush to make their Scottish address the only one, Then sell them back to the same people and use the money to buy up a significant part of Scotland vacated by the same pseudo Scot's....
Next step would of course to be to declare independence from Scotland |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"
And for goodness sake the currency is ours too!
actually no... the Currency is the domain of the United Kingdom and underwrited by the Bank of England....
if Scotland leave the UK, they dont have any automatic right to the Currency...."
Currency only has value if people are prepared to accept it.
Scottish paper money, as some of you will have noticed, is different to Bank of England paper money and if people, for whatever reason decide not to accept 'Scottish' notes, they become no more than toilet paper. |
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Currency only has value if people are prepared to accept it.
Scottish paper money, as some of you will have noticed, is different to Bank of England paper money and if people, for whatever reason decide not to accept 'Scottish' notes, they become no more than toilet paper."
Haha you are becoming more laughable by the post!
If you don't think Westminster will be desperate for a currency union after a yes vote, stick your money on it. Ladbrokes are offering 50/ that it won't happen. |
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"Most common misconceptions about Scottish independence are;
1. We somehow can't afford it. How? We pay more in than we get back. It's a fact. Why is this still being questioned? The figure are there. Look at them! (You tube "economic case for Scottish independence by Ivan McKee or go directly to the GERS figures.)
2. It's anti English or there is resentment against English people. Any resentment is against fellow scots who seem to think we are not worthy or able to look after ourselves. Or the Westminster governments who do not represent us or act in out interests. This is no more anti English than promotion of gay rights is anti straight. The system is not currently democratic.
3. That English should get a vote. Try saying that to a partner when you wanna leave them. Darling, I'm leaving you. Do you agree? No? Ok I'll stay then.
And for goodness sake the currency is ours too!"
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"
Currency only has value if people are prepared to accept it.
Scottish paper money, as some of you will have noticed, is different to Bank of England paper money and if people, for whatever reason decide not to accept 'Scottish' notes, they become no more than toilet paper.
Haha you are becoming more laughable by the post!
If you don't think Westminster will be desperate for a currency union after a yes vote, stick your money on it. Ladbrokes are offering 50/ that it won't happen. "
Please excuse my ignorance. Could you please explain why wales, nI and England would be desperate for a currency union with Scotland?
I'm sorry but I need someone who knows all about it to explain that to me. |
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"
Please excuse my ignorance. Could you please explain why wales, nI and England would be desperate for a currency union with Scotland?
I'm sorry but I need someone who knows all about it to explain that to me."
Quite simply because the uk does a massive amount of trade with Scotland. Scotland is England's second biggest trading partner. By having different currencies there would be barriers to trade. It would cost money. People say this is an argument against independence - but to maintain the status quo is harming Scotland enormously. (Look at the debt we are in by being part of the UK - we didn't need it at all.) the solution is political independence but in a sterling zone. |
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"
Please excuse my ignorance. Could you please explain why wales, nI and England would be desperate for a currency union with Scotland?
I'm sorry but I need someone who knows all about it to explain that to me.
Quite simply because the uk does a massive amount of trade with Scotland. Scotland is England's second biggest trading partner. By having different currencies there would be barriers to trade. It would cost money. People say this is an argument against independence - but to maintain the status quo is harming Scotland enormously. (Look at the debt we are in by being part of the UK - we didn't need it at all.) the solution is political independence but in a sterling zone. "
you could always go to the euro... |
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"
Please excuse my ignorance. Could you please explain why wales, nI and England would be desperate for a currency union with Scotland?
I'm sorry but I need someone who knows all about it to explain that to me.
Quite simply because the uk does a massive amount of trade with Scotland. Scotland is England's second biggest trading partner. By having different currencies there would be barriers to trade. It would cost money. People say this is an argument against independence - but to maintain the status quo is harming Scotland enormously. (Look at the debt we are in by being part of the UK - we didn't need it at all.) the solution is political independence but in a sterling zone. "
Thanks for that. Who is the biggest trading partner currently and what currency do they use?
Thanks again and apologies for being so dim. |
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"
Please excuse my ignorance. Could you please explain why wales, nI and England would be desperate for a currency union with Scotland?
I'm sorry but I need someone who knows all about it to explain that to me.
Quite simply because the uk does a massive amount of trade with Scotland. Scotland is England's second biggest trading partner. By having different currencies there would be barriers to trade. It would cost money. People say this is an argument against independence - but to maintain the status quo is harming Scotland enormously. (Look at the debt we are in by being part of the UK - we didn't need it at all.) the solution is political independence but in a sterling zone.
Thanks for that. Who is the biggest trading partner currently and what currency do they use?
Thanks again and apologies for being so dim."
USA. Dollars. No problem. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think the referendum is a good thing, Not living in Scotland means I don't much care which way it goes, though I would be sad to see the end of the UK.
What annoys me is that some of the Yes group are already saying if the referendum is a No then they will keep having them until it's a Yes vote.
I think that should be settled on the same paper e.g. multiple choice
"when should we hold the next vote"
1 year
5 years
50 years
or never
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Thanks for that. Who is the biggest trading partner currently and what currency do they use?
Thanks again and apologies for being so dim.
USA. Dollars. No problem. "
Hmmm I thought it was Europe / Euro with 40% of UK exports going there. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
Quite simply because the uk does a massive amount of trade with Scotland. Scotland is England's second biggest trading partner. By having different currencies there would be barriers to trade. It would cost money. People say this is an argument against independence - but to maintain the status quo is harming Scotland enormously. (Look at the debt we are in by being part of the UK - we didn't need it at all.) the solution is political independence but in a sterling zone.
Thanks for that. Who is the biggest trading partner currently and what currency do they use?
Thanks again and apologies for being so dim."
actually... i am going to turn it around... it would actually be more beneficial for scotland.... and thats why they are pushing for it...
the rest of the UK would become Scotland biggest trading partner... and they would desperately need it to lower costs for scottish companies... also it protects them from companies who may make the decision to "move south" for financial stability reason...
also actually it means they would have a better "credit rating" as for being part of the uk, than they would get for being on their own...
it would also mean they would pay back debt at a cheaper rate...
be easier to raise borrowing for infrustructure projects...
have the bank of england underwrite any scottish banking failure.... because it would then effect the rest of the UK otherwise..
also it means 10/25 year Bond yields for raising revenue would likely be lower... meaning again the amount they would have to pay back less to cover them...
duncan goes on about the debt, but they would also have to take on some of that (and to say that would all be caused by the rest of the UK is laughable at best)
see... the issue is most of the scottish issues are sorted at a scottish level already... its called the scottish parliament.... |
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"
What annoys me is that some of the Yes group are already saying if the referendum is a No then they will keep having them until it's a Yes vote.
I think that should be settled on the same paper e.g. multiple choice
"when should we hold the next vote"
1 year
5 years
50 years
or never
"
But this is fundamentally undemocratic. If a majority wants change, it Should happen. So if yes loses by 60/40 and in 10 years that has change to 40/60 it should happen and who can possible say it shouldn't. Democracy for the people to decide. |
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"Thanks for that. Who is the biggest trading partner currently and what currency do they use?
Thanks again and apologies for being so dim.
USA. Dollars. No problem.
Hmmm I thought it was Europe / Euro with 40% of UK exports going there."
I thought that too. I'm a little more confused now, if the biggest trading partner is a different currency why would it be so essential that the 2nd biggest trading partner ( source-Duncan) uses the same currency? I don't get that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But this is fundamentally undemocratic. If a majority wants change, it Should happen. So if yes loses by 60/40 and in 10 years that has change to 40/60 it should happen and who can possible say it shouldn't. Democracy for the people to decide. "
You can frame that either way, if the vote is No 60/40 then why should the 40 get another vote? after all if the vote is Yes 60/40 then the 40 won't get a second referendum in 10 years will they? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I rather like the idea of being resented by the Disadvantaged men in Skirts "
is the vote only open to those Scots that are transvestites then?
not going to be a huge turnout in which case.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"actually... i am going to turn it around... it would actually be more beneficial for scotland.... and thats why they are pushing for it...
snip
see... the issue is most of the scottish issues are sorted at a scottish level already... its called the scottish parliament...."
That is a valid and true answer, I suspect that IF the vote is Yes then GB will be happy to have Scotland in a currency union, for a while! if it works out beneficial then fine they can stay, if not then it will be cut loose as the Irish pound was many years ago.
I am also suspicions, and don't trust Salmond to have any interest at heart beyond wanting to be President. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I am also suspicions, and don't trust Salmond to have any interest at heart beyond wanting to be President. "
This a million times.
He is a politician so therefore a sociopath who only wants his name in the history books. |
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"But this is fundamentally undemocratic. If a majority wants change, it Should happen. So if yes loses by 60/40 and in 10 years that has change to 40/60 it should happen and who can possible say it shouldn't. Democracy for the people to decide.
You can frame that either way, if the vote is No 60/40 then why should the 40 get another vote? after all if the vote is Yes 60/40 then the 40 won't get a second referendum in 10 years will they?"
Yes they will if that is the collective wish! But the trend is only going one way! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The "don't trust Salmond" stuff is quite tiresome too. We are not all blindly following one man. It's insulting to suggest that. "
I was not suggesting that you were, just that he will do anything for a little extra power.
However Fabio's assessment of the reasons that an Independent Scotland would want to stay in the Stirling union are more truthful than those quoted by the Yes campaign, there is little or no incentive for the remaining part of the union to wish to keep you there unless Scotland became a tax haven for the £ and multi-millionaires like Cameron and Osborne will be buying property north of the border in a great rush (probably have already). |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"The "don't trust Salmond" stuff is quite tiresome too. We are not all blindly following one man. It's insulting to suggest that. "
Telling your weans not to talk to strangers is probably quite tiresome for them too ..... but it's sound advice. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I feel the choice for Scotland to become independent should not be the Scots choice alone, the English should get a vote as well.
Although I feel the Scots will not vote for independence, the English would vote for Scotland to become independent.
This would be a good thing for English/Scottish relations as well.
I may be generalising, but the Scots seem to harbour a long standing feeling of resentment to the English for governing them, give them independence and we will all get on a lot better.
Thoughts? "
No I disagree, not all Scots......just Alex Salmond! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The "don't trust Salmond" stuff is quite tiresome too. We are not all blindly following one man. It's insulting to suggest that. "
You are insulted by other people saying they don't trust a politician?  |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Apart from The Money are there actually any benefits to breaking away ?
The Money?
S'wat i thought....Good luck then lol "
For most of us the Scottish/ English thing is no more than light hearted banter, just like the Glasgow/ Edinburgh 'rivalry' or the Glasgow West End v the South Side thing.
That said, there are extremist bampots on both sides of the border. They have no place in 21st century UK. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"That said, there are extremist bampots on both sides of the border. They have no place in 21st century UK."
Racial rivalry, is not the same as being racist. as Onny said it is much the same as north v south of the river, east v west of the town, or City v United. it's only the extremists that make it a problem.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I do not want Independence !!!The vote is not anti English it is about bringing government closer to the people.In Scotland we do not vote Tory very much as we only have one Tory MP in the whole of Scotland so I am sure you understand why the independance debate comes around when the Tories are in power.
Scotland is not ruled by England as Scotland send there MPS to parilment just the same as any other part of the UK. We are all better as a nation together.
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"I do not want Independence !!!The vote is not anti English it is about bringing government closer to the people.In Scotland we do not vote Tory very much as we only have one Tory MP in the whole of Scotland so I am sure you understand why the independance debate comes around when the Tories are in power.
Scotland is not ruled by England as Scotland send there MPS to parilment just the same as any other part of the UK. We are all better as a nation together.
"
There are more Tories in Holyrood than SNP members in Westminster. |
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"I think the referendum is a good thing, Not living in Scotland means I don't much care which way it goes, though I would be sad to see the end of the UK.
What annoys me is that some of the Yes group are already saying if the referendum is a No then they will keep having them until it's a Yes vote.
I think that should be settled on the same paper e.g. multiple choice
"when should we hold the next vote"
1 year
5 years
50 years
or never
"
No that is a total aunt Sally you are putting up there. None of the political camps are saying that and if you have seen one silly person say something that does not make it a policy.
It is stupidity that is clouding this issue and the amazing lack of perspective of both sides. I am a Scot living in England who is an ardent nationalist. It is not about breaking ties with England. There are two other countries in the UK so why should it be about England?
That is a good example of why people in Scotland want out. ITS NOT ALL ABOUT ENGLAND!!!
In fact it is nothing about England. It is about Scotland being able to control it's own destiny. Now if Scotland chooses to try a monetary union with another country it will give up some of it's autonomy but it will be Scotland's choice to do that.
No one actually knows the economics for sure, either way there are arguments in favour and anyone that tells you that there is a definitive economic advantage one way or the other is picking whatever set of statistics suits them.
It is not about money. It is about having the choice to make our own decisions and not rely on the consent of a parliament that is so unbelievably out of touch with most Scottish issues it is pathetic.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think the referendum is a good thing, Not living in Scotland means I don't much care which way it goes, though I would be sad to see the end of the UK.
What annoys me is that some of the Yes group are already saying if the referendum is a No then they will keep having them until it's a Yes vote.
I think that should be settled on the same paper e.g. multiple choice
"when should we hold the next vote"
1 year
5 years
50 years
or never
No that is a total aunt Sally you are putting up there. None of the political camps are saying that and if you have seen one silly person say something that does not make it a policy.
It is stupidity that is clouding this issue and the amazing lack of perspective of both sides. I am a Scot living in England who is an ardent nationalist. It is not about breaking ties with England. There are two other countries in the UK so why should it be about England?
That is a good example of why people in Scotland want out. ITS NOT ALL ABOUT ENGLAND!!!
In fact it is nothing about England. It is about Scotland being able to control it's own destiny. Now if Scotland chooses to try a monetary union with another country it will give up some of it's autonomy but it will be Scotland's choice to do that.
No one actually knows the economics for sure, either way there are arguments in favour and anyone that tells you that there is a definitive economic advantage one way or the other is picking whatever set of statistics suits them.
It is not about money. It is about having the choice to make our own decisions and not rely on the consent of a parliament that is so unbelievably out of touch with most Scottish issues it is pathetic.
"
So what are the Issues that the rest of the Country is so out of touch with ? |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
John Mason of the SNP wants to rerun the vote "day after day till the people of Scotland get the answer right".
He's one of the bampots I mentioned. He also tried to block gay marriage.
Bastard! |
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"I think the referendum is a good thing, Not living in Scotland means I don't much care which way it goes, though I would be sad to see the end of the UK.
What annoys me is that some of the Yes group are already saying if the referendum is a No then they will keep having them until it's a Yes vote.
I think that should be settled on the same paper e.g. multiple choice
"when should we hold the next vote"
1 year
5 years
50 years
or never
No that is a total aunt Sally you are putting up there. None of the political camps are saying that and if you have seen one silly person say something that does not make it a policy.
It is stupidity that is clouding this issue and the amazing lack of perspective of both sides. I am a Scot living in England who is an ardent nationalist. It is not about breaking ties with England. There are two other countries in the UK so why should it be about England?
That is a good example of why people in Scotland want out. ITS NOT ALL ABOUT ENGLAND!!!
In fact it is nothing about England. It is about Scotland being able to control it's own destiny. Now if Scotland chooses to try a monetary union with another country it will give up some of it's autonomy but it will be Scotland's choice to do that.
No one actually knows the economics for sure, either way there are arguments in favour and anyone that tells you that there is a definitive economic advantage one way or the other is picking whatever set of statistics suits them.
It is not about money. It is about having the choice to make our own decisions and not rely on the consent of a parliament that is so unbelievably out of touch with most Scottish issues it is pathetic.
I have yet to see any pro independent people mention wales or NI on here, it is always something to do with England. Why is that?
"
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"I think the referendum is a good thing, Not living in Scotland means I don't much care which way it goes, though I would be sad to see the end of the UK.
What annoys me is that some of the Yes group are already saying if the referendum is a No then they will keep having them until it's a Yes vote.
I think that should be settled on the same paper e.g. multiple choice
"when should we hold the next vote"
1 year
5 years
50 years
or never
No that is a total aunt Sally you are putting up there. None of the political camps are saying that and if you have seen one silly person say something that does not make it a policy.
It is stupidity that is clouding this issue and the amazing lack of perspective of both sides. I am a Scot living in England who is an ardent nationalist. It is not about breaking ties with England. There are two other countries in the UK so why should it be about England?
That is a good example of why people in Scotland want out. ITS NOT ALL ABOUT ENGLAND!!!
In fact it is nothing about England. It is about Scotland being able to control it's own destiny. Now if Scotland chooses to try a monetary union with another country it will give up some of it's autonomy but it will be Scotland's choice to do that.
No one actually knows the economics for sure, either way there are arguments in favour and anyone that tells you that there is a definitive economic advantage one way or the other is picking whatever set of statistics suits them.
It is not about money. It is about having the choice to make our own decisions and not rely on the consent of a parliament that is so unbelievably out of touch with most Scottish issues it is pathetic.
So what are the Issues that the rest of the Country is so out of touch with ?"
You just need to read this thread. The assertion that we are all blindly following Alex Salmond is both incorrect and insulting.
Sport, how much of the uk news does Scottish sport take up? Or Irish, or Welsh for that matter? It is totally Anglo centric. Just because we are less successful does not mean it should be ignored. If we are all equal that is.
Foreign policy, most scots were against the wars we just started. We would never have sent Scottish men and women to die overseas for a cause as tenuous as just happened.
Nuclear Weapons, just dumped in the Clyde because if there is a pre-emptive strike by someone else, no one south of the border will be killed. Glasgow will be obliterated but that's ok because it is northern and grim.
Public vs private sector, the UK govt are hell bent on private enterprise. Scotland is a public minded place and was so before the union. We do not think that the only justifiable way to spend money is to make a profit, unlike conservatism. Thus the Scottish public sector is historically a major part of the Economy.
Fox hunting. I mean, seriously. This gets time at Westminster. That should be enough to demand UDI in itself. |
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"John Mason of the SNP wants to rerun the vote "day after day till the people of Scotland get the answer right".
He's one of the bampots I mentioned. He also tried to block gay marriage.
Bastard!"
What John Mason says should not be taken as an indication of anything other than his unhinged state. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Onny we usually agree but the Tories in Edinburgh are mostly list Mp s so don't count lol "
The SNP members in Westminster are mostly for places where there's more sheep than people.
No surprise there. |
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"[Removed by poster at 05/02/14 15:03:03]"
You obviously didn't read my first post.
It is not about England. England needs to get over itself. It is about Scotland having the ability to make her own decisions and shape her own destiny in whatever forum she decides. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"John Mason of the SNP wants to rerun the vote "day after day till the people of Scotland get the answer right".
He's one of the bampots I mentioned. He also tried to block gay marriage.
Bastard!
What John Mason says should not be taken as an indication of anything other than his unhinged state."
You could say that about most SNP MSPs. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"[Removed by poster at 05/02/14 15:03:03]
You obviously didn't read my first post.
It is not about England. England needs to get over itself. It is about Scotland having the ability to make her own decisions and shape her own destiny in whatever forum she decides."
I did, I just can't be arsed.
Here is it anyway
"Exactly the comment I was going to make but gave up because anything said seems to fall on deaf ears.
The only person who mentions England as opposed to the UK is the OP and the pro supports. Quite telling really.
You are right, the government aren't looking out for Scotland but they aren't looking out for anyone really. That's the sad thing.
Scotland deciding and managing it's own destiny seems the right thing but I think you are letting your passion cloud your thinking somewhat by reading the comments hear and that isn't a good thing.
We all hate our government."
The only people who seem to have a chip on their shoulders are the pro supports! |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"[Removed by poster at 05/02/14 15:03:03]
You obviously didn't read my first post.
It is not about England. England needs to get over itself. It is about Scotland having the ability to make her own decisions and shape her own destiny in whatever forum she decides."
You can't cut an arm off without it affecting the rest of the body. |
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"[Removed by poster at 05/02/14 15:03:03]
You obviously didn't read my first post.
It is not about England. England needs to get over itself. It is about Scotland having the ability to make her own decisions and shape her own destiny in whatever forum she decides.
You can't cut an arm off without it affecting the rest of the body."
True but you don't see the leg demanding a say do you? If the arm wants to go, it goes. The leg deals with it.
To stretch an otherwise pointless metaphor even further. |
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"
What annoys me is that some of the Yes group are already saying if the referendum is a No then they will keep having them until it's a Yes vote.
I think that should be settled on the same paper e.g. multiple choice
"when should we hold the next vote"
1 year
5 years
50 years
or never
But this is fundamentally undemocratic. If a majority wants change, it Should happen. So if yes loses by 60/40 and in 10 years that has change to 40/60 it should happen and who can possible say it shouldn't. Democracy for the people to decide. "
Or Scotland could take on the EU referendum model.
Vote the wrong way and keep having more referendums until you vote the right way.
Vote the right way then end of referendums.
Or even offer a referendum that Brussels doesn't like and they kick your PM out of office then parachute their own man in.
Think that can't happen? It already has. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
What annoys me is that some of the Yes group are already saying if the referendum is a No then they will keep having them until it's a Yes vote.
I think that should be settled on the same paper e.g. multiple choice
"when should we hold the next vote"
1 year
5 years
50 years
or never
But this is fundamentally undemocratic. If a majority wants change, it Should happen. So if yes loses by 60/40 and in 10 years that has change to 40/60 it should happen and who can possible say it shouldn't. Democracy for the people to decide.
Or Scotland could take on the EU referendum model.
Vote the wrong way and keep having more referendums until you vote the right way.
Vote the right way then end of referendums.
Or even offer a referendum that Brussels doesn't like and they kick your PM out of office then parachute their own man in.
Think that can't happen? It already has."
If its a Yes vote then the EU will become a moot point because Scotland will be out |
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"
What annoys me is that some of the Yes group are already saying if the referendum is a No then they will keep having them until it's a Yes vote.
I think that should be settled on the same paper e.g. multiple choice
"when should we hold the next vote"
1 year
5 years
50 years
or never
But this is fundamentally undemocratic. If a majority wants change, it Should happen. So if yes loses by 60/40 and in 10 years that has change to 40/60 it should happen and who can possible say it shouldn't. Democracy for the people to decide.
Or Scotland could take on the EU referendum model.
Vote the wrong way and keep having more referendums until you vote the right way.
Vote the right way then end of referendums.
Or even offer a referendum that Brussels doesn't like and they kick your PM out of office then parachute their own man in.
Think that can't happen? It already has.
If its a Yes vote then the EU will become a moot point because Scotland will be out"
If Scotland would be out of Europe, I presume they would be unable to have the euro as currency, therefore, they would be over a barrell when negotiating with the uk about keeping Stirling. Is that why the pro independence camp is so desperate to keep the pound? |
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"There is also a great misconception that all Scottish people resent the English when in fact this is not the case!!
i think they do..
i was talking to a smelly sock the other day and he told me that all scots support two national football teams...
Scotland and any team that plays against England...."
Yeah cause that 1 "smelly sock" represents a whole nation!!! If that was the case I would base my opinion of the English on you!! Luckily I'm a lady and won't state that here and I am not into tarring a whole lot if ppl with the same brush!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"No that is a total aunt Sally you are putting up there. None of the political camps are saying that and if you have seen one silly person say something that does not make it a policy.
"
John Mason was indeed the inspiration for my post calling on this referendum to settle the matter if not for all time(that's too long) at least for a long time
"There are two other countries in the UK so why should it be about England? That is a good example of why people in Scotland want out. ITS NOT ALL ABOUT ENGLAND!!!"
I have mentioned GB, and "remaining part of the Union" not England.
"
In fact it is nothing about England. It is about Scotland being able to control it's own destiny.
It is about having the choice to make our own decisions and not rely on the consent of a parliament that is so unbelievably out of touch with most Scottish issues it is pathetic.
"
Fair enough, does the Scottish parliament do nothing towards that? don't forget that also allows Scottish MP's to be in London too giving a say in UK policy.
"You just need to read this thread. The assertion that we are all blindly following Alex Salmond is both incorrect and insulting.
"
Nobody said that, I said he was self serving and wanted to be President. that does not implicate the Yes or the No groups either way.
"
Sport, how much of the uk news does Scottish sport take up? Or Irish, or Welsh for that matter? It is totally Anglo centric. Just because we are less successful does not mean it should be ignored. If we are all equal that is.
"
percentage of coverage against percentage of matches / games played? probably not far out really
"
Foreign policy, most scots were against the wars we just started. We would never have sent Scottish men and women to die overseas for a cause as tenuous as just happened.
"
Most Irish, Welsh & English would agree with you, not many would have voted to go into either conflict.
"
Nuclear Weapons, just dumped in the Clyde because if there is a pre-emptive strike by someone else, no one south of the border will be killed. Glasgow will be obliterated but that's ok because it is northern and grim.
"
Think you will find the point of Nuclear armed subs is that nobody knows where they are! the Clyde happened to have a shipyard with no work that is deep enough to get them in and out of for servicing.
"Public vs private sector, the UK govt are hell bent on private enterprise. Scotland is a public minded place and was so before the union.
"
Again no argument from me, I also feel that companies should make profit, whilst government is measured in service, however before the Union was a long time ago, and not relevant to today's issues. However a large part of the reason for the union was Scottish rulers looking for personal profit. So not all Scot's are socially minded.
Would like to add that my ancestry is not Scottish bit of Irish, bit English and a bit French and German. and as I don't live in Scotland I will not be voting in the referendum. But as an ardent believer in democracy I will support the decision whatever it is and hope that it works out for the benefit of the people more than the benefit of the few as is so often the case. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"
...........
Nuclear Weapons, just dumped in the Clyde because if there is a pre-emptive strike by someone else, no one south of the border will be killed. Glasgow will be obliterated but that's ok because it is northern and grim.
Think you will find the point of Nuclear armed subs is that nobody knows where they are! the Clyde happened to have a shipyard with no work that is deep enough to get them in and out of for servicing.
..............."
HMNB Clyde (Faslane and Coulport) have been there since WWII and are where they are because of deep water and easy, secret, access to the North Atlantic.
It supports about 3,000 jobs on base and probably many more in the surrounding areas. Closing Faslane would be like closing Grangemouth and would leave Helensburgh as a ghost town. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I think the referendum is a good thing, Not living in Scotland means I don't much care which way it goes, though I would be sad to see the end of the UK.
What annoys me is that some of the Yes group are already saying if the referendum is a No then they will keep having them until it's a Yes vote.
I think that should be settled on the same paper e.g. multiple choice
"when should we hold the next vote"
1 year
5 years
50 years
or never
No that is a total aunt Sally you are putting up there. None of the political camps are saying that and if you have seen one silly person say something that does not make it a policy.
It is stupidity that is clouding this issue and the amazing lack of perspective of both sides. I am a Scot living in England who is an ardent nationalist. It is not about breaking ties with England. There are two other countries in the UK so why should it be about England?
That is a good example of why people in Scotland want out. ITS NOT ALL ABOUT ENGLAND!!!
In fact it is nothing about England. It is about Scotland being able to control it's own destiny. Now if Scotland chooses to try a monetary union with another country it will give up some of it's autonomy but it will be Scotland's choice to do that.
No one actually knows the economics for sure, either way there are arguments in favour and anyone that tells you that there is a definitive economic advantage one way or the other is picking whatever set of statistics suits them.
It is not about money. It is about having the choice to make our own decisions and not rely on the consent of a parliament that is so unbelievably out of touch with most Scottish issues it is pathetic.
So what are the Issues that the rest of the Country is so out of touch with ?
You just need to read this thread. The assertion that we are all blindly following Alex Salmond is both incorrect and insulting.
Sport, how much of the uk news does Scottish sport take up? Or Irish, or Welsh for that matter? It is totally Anglo centric. Just because we are less successful does not mean it should be ignored. If we are all equal that is.
Foreign policy, most scots were against the wars we just started. We would never have sent Scottish men and women to die overseas for a cause as tenuous as just happened.
Nuclear Weapons, just dumped in the Clyde because if there is a pre-emptive strike by someone else, no one south of the border will be killed. Glasgow will be obliterated but that's ok because it is northern and grim.
Public vs private sector, the UK govt are hell bent on private enterprise. Scotland is a public minded place and was so before the union. We do not think that the only justifiable way to spend money is to make a profit, unlike conservatism. Thus the Scottish public sector is historically a major part of the Economy.
Fox hunting. I mean, seriously. This gets time at Westminster. That should be enough to demand UDI in itself."
How much English sport is reported in the Scottish press?
Last time I looked Devonport dockyard is full of nuclear submarines awaiting final disposal.
Most English people are against the wars we have recently been involved with, 1 million people marching against the invasion of iraq... |
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By *andG4moreCouple
over a year ago
Dunbartonshire |
"
...........
Nuclear Weapons, just dumped in the Clyde because if there is a pre-emptive strike by someone else, no one south of the border will be killed. Glasgow will be obliterated but that's ok because it is northern and grim.
Think you will find the point of Nuclear armed subs is that nobody knows where they are! the Clyde happened to have a shipyard with no work that is deep enough to get them in and out of for servicing.
...............
HMNB Clyde (Faslane and Coulport) have been there since WWII and are where they are because of deep water and easy, secret, access to the North Atlantic.
It supports about 3,000 jobs on base and probably many more in the surrounding areas. Closing Faslane would be like closing Grangemouth and would leave Helensburgh as a ghost town."
Did they not say that about dunnoon??
Its still there and thriving after Americans left. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
...........
Nuclear Weapons, just dumped in the Clyde because if there is a pre-emptive strike by someone else, no one south of the border will be killed. Glasgow will be obliterated but that's ok because it is northern and grim.
Think you will find the point of Nuclear armed subs is that nobody knows where they are! the Clyde happened to have a shipyard with no work that is deep enough to get them in and out of for servicing.
...............
HMNB Clyde (Faslane and Coulport) have been there since WWII and are where they are because of deep water and easy, secret, access to the North Atlantic.
It supports about 3,000 jobs on base and probably many more in the surrounding areas. Closing Faslane would be like closing Grangemouth and would leave Helensburgh as a ghost town."
I would guess the locals there arn't voting for it but I can see a lot of businesses moving too if it occurs. I really don't see either side being anything other than out of pocket if it were to happen which in reality is unlikely the one thing would make me smile is how the queen would react if Balmoral is taken off her and made into a luxury oap home. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
You are welcome, of course it's a crock of shite! providing electricity to rural areas is subsidised by the urban houses that have less copper wire from one customer to the next.
If independence does get voted in, the shared infrastructure including the National Grid will stay shared for a while, but this is a long term project and what happens in the next 20 years is largely irrelevant. It's the next 200 that matters.
We have been working together for 400 years, what has been achieved won't stop overnight.
|
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"
...........
Nuclear Weapons, just dumped in the Clyde because if there is a pre-emptive strike by someone else, no one south of the border will be killed. Glasgow will be obliterated but that's ok because it is northern and grim.
Think you will find the point of Nuclear armed subs is that nobody knows where they are! the Clyde happened to have a shipyard with no work that is deep enough to get them in and out of for servicing.
...............
HMNB Clyde (Faslane and Coulport) have been there since WWII and are where they are because of deep water and easy, secret, access to the North Atlantic.
It supports about 3,000 jobs on base and probably many more in the surrounding areas. Closing Faslane would be like closing Grangemouth and would leave Helensburgh as a ghost town.
Did they not say that about dunnoon??
Its still there and thriving after Americans left."
Your definition of thriving must be different from the dictionary definition. |
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By *andG4moreCouple
over a year ago
Dunbartonshire |
"
...........
Nuclear Weapons, just dumped in the Clyde because if there is a pre-emptive strike by someone else, no one south of the border will be killed. Glasgow will be obliterated but that's ok because it is northern and grim.
Think you will find the point of Nuclear armed subs is that nobody knows where they are! the Clyde happened to have a shipyard with no work that is deep enough to get them in and out of for servicing.
...............
HMNB Clyde (Faslane and Coulport) have been there since WWII and are where they are because of deep water and easy, secret, access to the North Atlantic.
It supports about 3,000 jobs on base and probably many more in the surrounding areas. Closing Faslane would be like closing Grangemouth and would leave Helensburgh as a ghost town.
Did they not say that about dunnoon??
Its still there and thriving after Americans left.
Your definition of thriving must be different from the dictionary definition."
Well last time I looked up ghost town in dictionary Dunnoon certainly does not fit that definition for sure.
Would say its still a busy town with good population over 10000 and business community building on the success of tourism and other industries. I would definitely say Dunnoon has hardly closed up shop and been left to rot after the American base closure.
Bet Helensburghs population is not much higher with Faslane there right now. |
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"
...........
Nuclear Weapons, just dumped in the Clyde because if there is a pre-emptive strike by someone else, no one south of the border will be killed. Glasgow will be obliterated but that's ok because it is northern and grim.
Think you will find the point of Nuclear armed subs is that nobody knows where they are! the Clyde happened to have a shipyard with no work that is deep enough to get them in and out of for servicing.
...............
HMNB Clyde (Faslane and Coulport) have been there since WWII and are where they are because of deep water and easy, secret, access to the North Atlantic.
It supports about 3,000 jobs on base and probably many more in the surrounding areas. Closing Faslane would be like closing Grangemouth and would leave Helensburgh as a ghost town."
From someone who knows that area very well.
Well said |
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"
What annoys me is that some of the Yes group are already saying if the referendum is a No then they will keep having them until it's a Yes vote.
I think that should be settled on the same paper e.g. multiple choice
"when should we hold the next vote"
1 year
5 years
50 years
or never
But this is fundamentally undemocratic. If a majority wants change, it Should happen. So if yes loses by 60/40 and in 10 years that has change to 40/60 it should happen and who can possible say it shouldn't. Democracy for the people to decide.
Or Scotland could take on the EU referendum model.
Vote the wrong way and keep having more referendums until you vote the right way.
Vote the right way then end of referendums.
Or even offer a referendum that Brussels doesn't like and they kick your PM out of office then parachute their own man in.
Think that can't happen? It already has.
If its a Yes vote then the EU will become a moot point because Scotland will be out
If Scotland would be out of Europe, I presume they would be unable to have the euro as currency, therefore, they would be over a barrell when negotiating with the uk about keeping Stirling. Is that why the pro independence camp is so desperate to keep the pound?"
The question of whether Scotland can stay in the EU is quite complicated, if of course they want to.
An independent Scotland would have to re-apply for membership. Under current rules all new applicants have to agree to adopt the Euro within a set time scale, So an independent Scotland would have to either agree to adopt the Euro or not re-join the EU. The EU could change the rules and make Scotland a special case as it would be the first time a member state has split up while being a member and there is no precedent.
The Elephant in the room however is Spain. They have the power of veto and would almost certainly use it in Scotland's case, because it would set a very serious (for Spain) precedent for the Basques and Catalans to push their own independence claims. Also the Spanish are hardly likely to do any part of Britain a favour while the situation in Gibraltar remains unresolved.
Scotland could end up with a lot more independence than it really wants. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The question of whether Scotland can stay in the EU is quite complicated, if of course they want to."
Just a thought... as it is the UK that is a member of the EU... and when Scotland leaves the UK it will no longer be the UK... doesn't that make 2 new countries? if so wouldn't both sides need to re-apply for membership?  |
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"The question of whether Scotland can stay in the EU is quite complicated, if of course they want to.
Just a thought... as it is the UK that is a member of the EU... and when Scotland leaves the UK it will no longer be the UK... doesn't that make 2 new countries? if so wouldn't both sides need to re-apply for membership? "
No. The UK. As in England, Wales and Northern Ireland would still exist, so it would only be the new independent Scotland that would have to re-apply. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"The question of whether Scotland can stay in the EU is quite complicated, if of course they want to.
Just a thought... as it is the UK that is a member of the EU... and when Scotland leaves the UK it will no longer be the UK... doesn't that make 2 new countries? if so wouldn't both sides need to re-apply for membership?
No. The UK. As in England, Wales and Northern Ireland would still exist, so it would only be the new independent Scotland that would have to re-apply."
Although, given the rise of UKIP, it may well be that the whole of the UK will vote to leave the EU after Cameron's promised ballot by 2017. |
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"The question of whether Scotland can stay in the EU is quite complicated, if of course they want to.
Just a thought... as it is the UK that is a member of the EU... and when Scotland leaves the UK it will no longer be the UK... doesn't that make 2 new countries? if so wouldn't both sides need to re-apply for membership?
No. The UK. As in England, Wales and Northern Ireland would still exist, so it would only be the new independent Scotland that would have to re-apply.
Although, given the rise of UKIP, it may well be that the whole of the UK will vote to leave the EU after Cameron's promised ballot by 2017."
I suppose that is possible, but I can't really see Cameron in Downing St by then.
The funny thing is that if the UK had to re-apply then Eck (as you call him) would be Farage's newest bestest mate. |
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