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Scotland on Keeping Sterling

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By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Is it important to remain in a currency union?

The Governor of the Bank of England is setting out his thoughts and has to remain independent.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

yes

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By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"yes"

This is the bit that confuses me about the debate and the vote. If you can't set your own interest rates and control your money how real is any independence?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As a Scotsman I personally think splitting up would be a bad thing. The country is in a bad enough state as it is.

Anyway what would the currency be called? The Salmond?

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"yes

This is the bit that confuses me about the debate and the vote. If you can't set your own interest rates and control your money how real is any independence?

But the uk government doesn't set it's own interest rates either.

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By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"yes

This is the bit that confuses me about the debate and the vote. If you can't set your own interest rates and control your money how real is any independence?

But the uk government doesn't set it's own interest rates either. "

I know, they handed it over. They do get to influence such measures as QE though.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"As a Scotsman I personally think splitting up would be a bad thing. The country is in a bad enough state as it is.

Anyway what would the currency be called? The Salmond?"

It's in a bad state because it's been mismanaged. Oil was discovered in the North Sea in the 70's. Norway have an oil fund worth half a trillion. The uk has a debt of 1.3 trillion. What happened?

The 4th most unequal society in the world tells me it's because the wealth goes to the rich. Personally I wish for something better and fairer so I'll voting yes and campaigning for yes.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" Personally I wish for something better and fairer so I'll voting yes and campaigning for yes. "

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

i think he has an interesting role to play.... because he was govenor of the bank of Canada, when Quebec was looking at possibly going independent in their referendum....

I think his experience of that is invaluable in this debate, because where salmond and his side will promise a lot, he can tell the truth of what it may actually be like....

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By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"i think he has an interesting role to play.... because he was govenor of the bank of Canada, when Quebec was looking at possibly going independent in their referendum....

I think his experience of that is invaluable in this debate, because where salmond and his side will promise a lot, he can tell the truth of what it may actually be like....

I'm waiting to see his speech.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"As a Scotsman I personally think splitting up would be a bad thing. The country is in a bad enough state as it is.

Anyway what would the currency be called? The Salmond?

It's in a bad state because it's been mismanaged. Oil was discovered in the North Sea in the 70's. Norway have an oil fund worth half a trillion. The uk has a debt of 1.3 trillion. What happened?

The 4th most unequal society in the world tells me it's because the wealth goes to the rich. Personally I wish for something better and fairer so I'll voting yes and campaigning for yes. "

UK - 22nd most populated country worldwide at 63.7m

Norway - 118th at 5.1m

I guess their governments bills are lower!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

if scotland votes yes then they should have to join the euro they cant be keeping the pound as it would seem to be having their cake and eating it . a split should be just that a split from everything ..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 29/01/14 14:01:21]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"As a Scotsman I personally think splitting up would be a bad thing. The country is in a bad enough state as it is.

Anyway what would the currency be called? The Salmond?

It's in a bad state because it's been mismanaged. Oil was discovered in the North Sea in the 70's. Norway have an oil fund worth half a trillion. The uk has a debt of 1.3 trillion. What happened?

The 4th most unequal society in the world tells me it's because the wealth goes to the rich. Personally I wish for something better and fairer so I'll voting yes and campaigning for yes. "

Whats going to be fairer and more equal? Can you explain how its going to be a fairer, more equal utopia under an Indy government?

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"As a Scotsman I personally think splitting up would be a bad thing. The country is in a bad enough state as it is.

Anyway what would the currency be called? The Salmond?

It's in a bad state because it's been mismanaged. Oil was discovered in the North Sea in the 70's. Norway have an oil fund worth half a trillion. The uk has a debt of 1.3 trillion. What happened?

The 4th most unequal society in the world tells me it's because the wealth goes to the rich. Personally I wish for something better and fairer so I'll voting yes and campaigning for yes. "

So is the plan to go back 40 or 50 years, rediscover all that oil and use the money differently?

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Whats going to be fairer and more equal? Can you explain how its going to be a fairer, more equal utopia under and Indy government?"

Well for one we will keep the money we raise here. I recommend this video from business for Scotland called "economic case for Scottish independence". It's a real eye opener if you think Scotland can't afford this. http://youtu.be/1W8cKHcZn60

By tailoring policy to Scottish needs rather than blanket policy for all can only be an improvement. When our voting patterns are so different then things have to change. Tories? Ukip? It's a nonsense that these people have a voice in this country. So we need to get rid.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"if scotland votes yes then they should have to join the euro they cant be keeping the pound as it would seem to be having their cake and eating it . a split should be just that a split from everything .. "

Why would it be having our cake and eating it?

We absolutely can keep the pound and thats exactly what'll probably happen. Any country can use any currency they want, Panama uses the US$. We have to be governed by certain rules and statutes and it has to be ratified by the remaining UK government but we can use whatever currency we want.

The only currency we may be forced to use is the Euro and that depends on a lot of legal work with the EU, should we choose to join it. Theres a massive grey area about that as well.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"As a Scotsman I personally think splitting up would be a bad thing. The country is in a bad enough state as it is.

Anyway what would the currency be called? The Salmond?

It's in a bad state because it's been mismanaged. Oil was discovered in the North Sea in the 70's. Norway have an oil fund worth half a trillion. The uk has a debt of 1.3 trillion. What happened?

The 4th most unequal society in the world tells me it's because the wealth goes to the rich. Personally I wish for something better and fairer so I'll voting yes and campaigning for yes. "

It's a revolution you want not a vote for independence

Do you you not think the rich in Scotland are getting richer and I'm sure Salmond will be looking after himself

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"As a Scotsman I personally think splitting up would be a bad thing. The country is in a bad enough state as it is.

Anyway what would the currency be called? The Salmond?

It's in a bad state because it's been mismanaged. Oil was discovered in the North Sea in the 70's. Norway have an oil fund worth half a trillion. The uk has a debt of 1.3 trillion. What happened?

The 4th most unequal society in the world tells me it's because the wealth goes to the rich. Personally I wish for something better and fairer so I'll voting yes and campaigning for yes.

Whats going to be fairer and more equal? Can you explain how its going to be a fairer, more equal utopia under an Indy government?"

Haven't you seem Brigadoon?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Whats going to be fairer and more equal? Can you explain how its going to be a fairer, more equal utopia under and Indy government?

This is my big bone of contention with this whole argument. Its not a nonsense they have a voice as we are part of the United Kingdom. What happens if Independence comes around and at the next election, a fair amount of seats go to the Tories? Do you honestly think that Westminster won't be controlling the Tory MSP's from Westminster?

I'll check out that video you recommended and in the meantime, check out this http://notesfromnorthbritain.wordpress.com/2014/01/28/the-hidden-costs-of-independence/ Its a real eye opener in terms of how little fact finding the SNP has done and not only is its Whitepaper made of general fluff but some of the points it raises are either lies or a deliberate attempt to mislead the voting public.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"As a Scotsman I personally think splitting up would be a bad thing. The country is in a bad enough state as it is.

Anyway what would the currency be called? The Salmond?

It's in a bad state because it's been mismanaged. Oil was discovered in the North Sea in the 70's. Norway have an oil fund worth half a trillion. The uk has a debt of 1.3 trillion. What happened?

The 4th most unequal society in the world tells me it's because the wealth goes to the rich. Personally I wish for something better and fairer so I'll voting yes and campaigning for yes.

Whats going to be fairer and more equal? Can you explain how its going to be a fairer, more equal utopia under an Indy government?

Haven't you seem Brigadoon?"

No. It only appears for one day every hundred years and I'm only 38 so theres probably a long way to go yet.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Why would it be having our cake and eating it?

The only currency we may be forced to use is the Euro and that depends on a lot of legal work with the EU, should we choose to join it. Theres a massive grey area about that as well."

difference with the panama example is that is only one way currency union... the us aren't tied to anything at all...

okay.. another question, why would for example an GB government have to then bail out a scottish bank if needed?

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Mentions of Alex Salmond or the euro? What is the relevance? I voted yes/yes in 97. I didn't vote for Donald Dewar! This is by and for the people of Scotland. Not a politician and not a party. And the euro is NOT AN OPTION. No one is suggesting we join the euro and no one can force us!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"As a Scotsman I personally think splitting up would be a bad thing. The country is in a bad enough state as it is.

Anyway what would the currency be called? The Salmond?

It's in a bad state because it's been mismanaged. Oil was discovered in the North Sea in the 70's. Norway have an oil fund worth half a trillion. The uk has a debt of 1.3 trillion. What happened?

The 4th most unequal society in the world tells me it's because the wealth goes to the rich. Personally I wish for something better and fairer so I'll voting yes and campaigning for yes. "

We put a Scott in charge of the money and he fucked it up spectacularly us what happened

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

okay.. another question, why would for example an GB government have to then bail out a scottish bank if needed?"

For the same reason the USA bailed out the uk banks! It's in their financial interests!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Mentions of Alex Salmond or the euro? What is the relevance? I voted yes/yes in 97. I didn't vote for Donald Dewar! This is by and for the people of Scotland. Not a politician and not a party. And the euro is NOT AN OPTION. No one is suggesting we join the euro and no one can force us! "

Well Europe can.

If you want to join the union you have to take the euro, the UK is the only country with the option not to.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We'll have huge statues of 'The glorious leader) aka Alex Salmond on every corner and pictures of him in all government buildings. A bit like Stalin did in the good old USSR lol

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

The words of a fanatic and, as we know, "A fanatic is always concealing a secret doubt”?

The shouting is a bit of a giveaway.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

but why should you automatically expect join the pound either???

in fact, shouldn't that be decided in a referendum by all of the people you leave behind?

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

but why should you automatically expect join the pound either???

in fact, shouldn't that be decided in a referendum by all of the people you leave behind?

No. Another country cannot decide via referenda what currency another nation uses. It belongs to us as well as the UK and post yes, it would be fiscal maddness to not cooperate with this.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

but why should you automatically expect join the pound either???

in fact, shouldn't that be decided in a referendum by all of the people you leave behind?

Salmond assumes, and expects us to believe, that because he says something is so - it is.

Like when he says there'll be no border controls. There are two sides to a border and whilst, in the increasingly unlikely event of Separation, he can choose not to have controls on the Scottish side, there's fuck all he can do about what happens south of that border.

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By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

but why should you automatically expect join the pound either???

in fact, shouldn't that be decided in a referendum by all of the people you leave behind?

That's a good point. What is the likely effect on Sterling of an independent country using our currency?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We put a Scott in charge of the money and he fucked it up spectacularly us what happened"

You dont think it was bankers & their unscrupulous activities that fucked up spectacularly? Btw only one t in Scots

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

ok scotland want indipendance,,have it by all means ,,,but don't come running back to us when you fall ,,,sort your own problems out ,,money ,work, defence and good luck

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

united we stand devided we fall

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

That's a good point. What is the likely effect on Sterling of an independent country using our currency?

Well that's where mr Carney comes in! But as you'll see in that video I posted, Scotland is a rich nation with a lot of industry and resources. I don't think that can be anything other than a benefit to a currency union. Watch the vid, honestly it's a good one.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"ok scotland want indipendance,,have it by all means ,,,but don't come running back to us when you fall ,,,sort your own problems out ,,money ,work, defence and good luck "

Cool. Thanks.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

but why should you automatically expect join the pound either???

in fact, shouldn't that be decided in a referendum by all of the people you leave behind?

That's a good point. What is the likely effect on Sterling of an independent country using our currency?

Bear in mind the Scottish clearing banks issue their own, clearly identifiable paper money. Should others choose not to accept these, we (Scotland) would be fucked (technical banking term).

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

No you can't be forced to join the euro but keep the pound and you will have no control over it and do you really think those nasty Tories or any other UK government would not put the UK's interests first no matter how it affected an I dependant Scotland

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

At the press conference, Carney is shitting on Eck from a great height.

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By *obin20071Man over a year ago

durham

hoots mon theya gana poot rab and mary-hen in charge of the mony it should be called the jamesie,200 jamesies to the pound

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

When is his statement due?

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Well Europe can.

If you want to join the union you have to take the euro, the UK is the only country with the option not to.

No. This is incorrect as proven by Sweden.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

That's a good point. What is the likely effect on Sterling of an independent country using our currency?

but thats not quite what mr carney said this afternoon...

he said that "Scotland would have to give up a certain amount of soverignty" for a currency union to work.....

and since the Scottish parliament already has all powers not determined at a national level.... just how much more autonomy would you like?

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

but thats not quite what mr carney said this afternoon...

he said that "Scotland would have to give up a certain amount of soverignty" for a currency union to work.....

and since the Scottish parliament already has all powers not determined at a national level.... just how much more autonomy would you like?

The Scottish parliament has a certain amount of powers but not all. We raise more money here than we get in spending so that is just one area where independence would greatly benefit us as we would keep our taxes here.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

Well Europe can.

If you want to join the union you have to take the euro, the UK is the only country with the option not to.

No. This is incorrect as proven by Sweden. "

House!

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

House!"

You are like the kid in school who doesn't understand what's going on so just causes as much disruption as he can. Join in the debate if you want though.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm Scottish and fiercely proud to be. I'm also British and old enough to remember that my father and grandfathers fought 2 world wars, shoulder to shoulder with English, Welsh and Irish men. I think we've done not to bad as a united nation really and say what you want that it's not all an SNP thing but it's so obvious that Alex Salmond and his cronies, if successful in the referendum fully expect to be in power forever. They've given 16 year olds the vote purely cos they think youngsters have this braveheart mentality but I know very few who will vote yes and even less 'adults' who plan to vote yes.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"I'm Scottish and fiercely proud to be. I'm also British and old enough to remember that my father and grandfathers fought 2 world wars, shoulder to shoulder with English, Welsh and Irish men. I think we've done not to bad as a united nation really and say what you want that it's not all an SNP thing but it's so obvious that Alex Salmond and his cronies, if successful in the referendum fully expect to be in power forever. They've given 16 year olds the vote purely cos they think youngsters have this braveheart mentality but I know very few who will vote yes and even less 'adults' who plan to vote yes."

The 16/17 old voters plan looks to be backfiring as is the childcare and 'compulsory women on boards' designed to attract women.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

House!

You are like the kid in school who doesn't understand what's going on so just causes as much disruption as he can. Join in the debate if you want though. "

I'm sorry if you feel I'm treating you as a child.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

It's a shame to see anyone think historical battles "fierce" nationalism and Hollywood movies really need to be mentioned in this debate. So you are a proud Brit? So what? So you'd vote no because of something happened 70 odd years ago? Come on, this is about changing for the better. You should get involved in the debate. It's really interesting.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Onny, don't think being obtuse counts as debating.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

India, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Nepal, to name a few, all fought shoulder to shoulder too. Do they want to be part of the UK?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"India, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Nepal, to name a few, all fought shoulder to shoulder too. Do they want to be part of the UK?"

Slightly different geography and not the most sensible comparison!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

re build hadrians wall if they vote yes ha ha ha ha ha

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We put a Scott in charge of the money and he fucked it up spectacularly us what happened

You dont think it was bankers & their unscrupulous activities that fucked up spectacularly? Btw only one t in Scots

Well the bankers were regulated by the Bank of England until May 1997. Then Gormless Brown & B.Liar went to see the Governor & told him they were changing the regulations & a lot of what was put in place after the 1930's Wall St crash. It was going to be light touch regulation all the way from now on.

Gormless then outlined his master plan of having three independent bodies to oversee the financial markets. The really clever bit was the fact that nobody had overall responsibility & no one was in charge.

Socialists & the apologists try & make out it wasn't the fault of the evil B.Liar & Brown & just simply want to blame the bankers forget this. Just as that stupid twat Ed Bollocks is still denying that p

igate spending got us into a mess.

I would love to see an independent Scotland just so I can see there utopian Socialist society become a complete basket case.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"Onny, don't think being obtuse counts as debating."

I hadn't realised we're debating.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 29/01/14 15:42:49]

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By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

From the Beeb News:

Speaking in Edinburgh, Mr Carney stressed arrangements for a currency union in the event of independence would be a matter for the Scottish and UK parliaments.

He added: "If such deliberations ever were to happen, they would need to consider carefully what the economics of currency unions suggest are the necessary foundations for a durable union, particularly given the clear risks if these foundations are not in place.

"Those risks have been demonstrated clearly in the euro area over recent years, with sovereign debt crises, financial fragmentation and large divergences in economic performance."

Mr Carney, who was speaking at an event hosted by the Scottish Council for Development and Industry, went on: "The euro area is now beginning to rectify its institutional shortcomings, but further, very significant steps must be taken to expand the sharing of risks and pooling of fiscal resources.

"In short, a durable, successful currency union requires some ceding of national sovereignty."

From that I take it that the UK Parliament would have to agree to Scotland retaining Sterling and on-going negotiations and agreements would be needed to ensure both economies don't suffer.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"In short, a durable, successful currency union requires some ceding of national sovereignty."

No wonder Angus Brendan was in tears on College Green.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If you don't think that taking hundreds of years of history of our countries, Scotland, England et al working as one has a relevance then I, like you said, think that's a shame. My reference to Braveheart is actually, in my humble opinion a good reference of what the SNP hoped young people's mentality would be, as it was mine (even before the movie) in the vote in the 70's Oh and I actually thought giving my opinion was part of the debate even if I didn't mention currency.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

thankfully the agenda will not be in the hands of some of the more rabid nationalists post the independance vote..

the majority of folk in Scotland are not daft enough to 'fix something which is not broken'..

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Fair enough. I don't think anyone on the yes side is seriously giving historic wars and braveheart any mention in this debate. It's about looking forward.

One thing you notice when you get into these types of debates (and I do every day) is that there are words that repeat on the 'no' side such as utopia and braveheart and phrases like "I'm a proud scot" or "land if milk and honey" etc. You just don't hear this on the yes side. No one is claiming utopia. Just fairness. A democracy. A government we vote for and have a say in.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

I would love to see an independent Scotland just so I can see there utopian Socialist society become a complete basket case.

You would wish us to fail? Why? This isn't personal!

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

the majority of folk in Scotland are not daft enough to 'fix something which is not broken'..

Perhaps it isn't broken to you. Come up to Scotland and count the Tories. Then tell me the system isn't broken.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I wouldn't wish Scotland to fail. But the Scots would be run by a Socialist Government. So then it would, as all Socialist Governments do, fail. Don't forget we in England have had to suffer Labour Governments, such as in 2005 whereby the Scots voting for Labour ensured that we had another term of ZaNuLiebore bollocks, so I wouldn't be too upset.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"I wouldn't wish Scotland to fail. But the Scots would be run by a Socialist Government. So then it would, as all Socialist Governments do, fail. Don't forget we in England have had to suffer Labour Governments, such as in 2005 whereby the Scots voting for Labour ensured that we had another term of ZaNuLiebore bollocks, so I wouldn't be too upset."

We would be run by the government we voted for though. Every time. Every single election.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Well Europe can.

If you want to join the union you have to take the euro, the UK is the only country with the option not to.

No. This is incorrect as proven by Sweden. "

afternoons homework.. looking into this claim...

technically the UK and Denmark are the only countries to have opt outs..... and any country that now joins the EU have to join the EURO when they meet all the criteria....

Sweden have any opt out into ERM2... which is the stage before full Euro conversion...

so questions then being....

1) why would scotland immediately be allowed into the EU?

2) why would scotland be allowed an opt out for the Euro when no other new countries are?

3) why would scotland assume the can just take Pound Stirling as their currency..... again if that is what they want I think the rest of the UK should get some sort of referendum say so in this!

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By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Well Europe can.

If you want to join the union you have to take the euro, the UK is the only country with the option not to.

No. This is incorrect as proven by Sweden.

afternoons homework.. looking into this claim...

technically the UK and Denmark are the only countries to have opt outs..... and any country that now joins the EU have to join the EURO when they meet all the criteria....

Sweden have any opt out into ERM2... which is the stage before full Euro conversion...

so questions then being....

1) why would scotland immediately be allowed into the EU?

2) why would scotland be allowed an opt out for the Euro when no other new countries are?

3) why would scotland assume the can just take Pound Stirling as their currency..... again if that is what they want I think the rest of the UK should get some sort of referendum say so in this!"

Fabio, you clever thing! The Scots can have Stirling.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

afternoons homework.. looking into this claim...

technically the UK and Denmark are the only countries to have opt outs..... and any country that now joins the EU have to join the EURO when they meet all the criteria....

Sweden have any opt out into ERM2... which is the stage before full Euro conversion...

so questions then being....

1) why would scotland immediately be allowed into the EU?

2) why would scotland be allowed an opt out for the Euro when no other new countries are?

3) why would scotland assume the can just take Pound Stirling as their currency..... again if that is what they want I think the rest of the UK should get some sort of referendum say so in this!"

Fair play to you for looking into it!

Firstly, we are eu citizens and have been for years. We currently meet the criteria and simply by becoming independent shouldn't suddenly change that. It isn't an "immediate" thing though. We'd have a year and a half to negotiate our place. I suppose the question is who would veto us, and why? Wouldn't it be a bit of a backward step from the current members?

2. Sweden is a member of the eu since 95. They are not in ERM 2 as this is down to individual choice. They can say "yeah we will join it one day" but they have no intention of doing so.

3. This is similar to the eu point. We'd negotiate it but realistically when you look at our financies, why wouldn't the uk wish to have a currency union with us? As with the eu, it would be almost petty and spiteful to refuse as well as bit economically sound. Noises to the contrary can be made of course but the day after the vote, I'm sure the UK will be just as keen for a currency union as we are.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Fair enough. I don't think anyone on the yes side is seriously giving historic wars and braveheart any mention in this debate. It's about looking forward.

And all the money from the oil !

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

**************

Some things you just occasionally hear from the Yes campaign....

Scotland has oil.....

What about our oil......

We will use all the money we have from oil....

Did we mention we have oil......

Which, if we're lucky might last another 50 years (that's looking to the future as you suggested) at a decreasing rate and let's face it 50 years in the life of a nation is the blink of an eye.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

No one is suggesting basing out economy in oil but to ignore a resource like that is ridiculous! It's made Norway rich and we are skint. So yes, I'd quite like to make the most of it while it's there. Why in earth do you think Westminster is so keen to hang on to us? So what if there is only 40 or 50 years left. It's still a great asset to have.

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By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"No one is suggesting basing out economy in oil but to ignore a resource like that is ridiculous! It's made Norway rich and we are skint. So yes, I'd quite like to make the most of it while it's there. Why in earth do you think Westminster is so keen to hang on to us? So what if there is only 40 or 50 years left. It's still a great asset to have. "

Do you really think Westminster just want to "hang on to" you for oil? I thought it was because the map looks really strange when you chop off Scotland.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

And when the oil runs out.........?

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

And when the oil runs out.........?"

The same way the uk will survive without oil!

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"One thing you notice when you get into these types of debates (and I do every day) is that there are words that repeat on the 'no' side such as utopia and braveheart and phrases like "I'm a proud scot" or "land if milk and honey" etc. You just don't hear this on the yes side. No one is claiming utopia. Just fairness. A democracy. A government we vote for and have a say in.

**************

Some things you just occasionally hear from the Yes campaign....

Scotland has oil.....

What about our oil......

We will use all the money we have from oil....

Did we mention we have oil......

Which, if we're lucky might last another 50 years (that's looking to the future as you suggested) at a decreasing rate and let's face it 50 years in the life of a nation is the blink of an eye."

see the interesting thing about the "we have oil" arguement is that robert peston as done a bit of analysis... and he thinks that if scotland had control of the oil that energy prices in the rest of the UK could come down... and they would go up in Scotland because they would have all the maintenance, building and decomisining costs....

just for reference here is the rest of peston's analysis...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25945688

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

And when the oil runs out.........?"

Comments like this come from an strange assumption that up here we are unable to fend for ourselves without some kind of handout. We pay more in than we get out and even when you take oil out the equation we are still at 99% of the uk average and the second highest "region" outside of London!

Whenever I hear someone say "but what about when the oil is gone" especially when they are in or from Scotland, it just reminds me how beaten down we have become here that we don't feel we can cope without help. It's such a shame.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

And when the oil runs out.........?

you make 99% of the money the UK brings in in revenue?

well fuck this, im moving to scotland then

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

just for reference here is the rest of peston's analysis...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25945688"

There is obviously going to be people saying that uk in charge of the oil good, Scotland in charge of oil bad. But does that really hold up?

Have a look at this one. By the way the whole website is an eye opener if interested to know more.

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/oil-gas-an-inside-_iew-of-scotlands-opportunities/

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

duncan, the problem is, you can put as many links as you want to support going alone, and those opposed can do the same to support their _iew.

the problem is, not many will have an even handed argument giving the actual effects, but rather either portray it as 'a land of milk n honey' or 'a country of death and decay'

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Is it important to remain in a currency union?

The Governor of the Bank of England is setting out his thoughts and has to remain independent.

I like the SNPs position on this, that they should be allowed to keep the pound post independence as it would benefit both countries.

SO STAY IN THE UNION THEN YOU UTTER SHOWER OF BASTARDS!

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By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

just for reference here is the rest of peston's analysis...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25945688

There is obviously going to be people saying that uk in charge of the oil good, Scotland in charge of oil bad. But does that really hold up?

Have a look at this one. By the way the whole website is an eye opener if interested to know more.

http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/oil-gas-an-inside-_iew-of-scotlands-opportunities/"

The "eye opener" stuff and a similar case can be made for London (without oil and being a separate country). I understand the right to vote to determine your future but I don't think that will be the end of it, or even really the start.

If the vote is close then there will be calls to have another one. If the vote is lost completely and Scots vote to remain part of the UK then there will be a call for another vote when the climate feels right again. If the yes vote is won in Scotland then there will be years of wrangling about who is owed what and when things will change. In the meantime, Scots will still come down here better qualified and take the jobs.

The free movement issue will rear it's head. Scotland not in the EU but people coming here and claiming?

London knows it's daft to listen to Philip Glass and his London as a nation state arguments.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'm just curious; if it's a yes vote and Scotland gets it's independence and it goes tits up who gets to vote on them coming back ? Will it be be the whole of the uk or just the Scottish ?

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"Is it important to remain in a currency union?

The Governor of the Bank of England is setting out his thoughts and has to remain independent.

I like the SNPs position on this, that they should be allowed to keep the pound post independence as it would benefit both countries.

SO STAY IN THE UNION THEN YOU UTTER SHOWER OF BASTARDS!"

Thee currency union would work though. The political union doesn't work.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"I'm just curious; if it's a yes vote and Scotland gets it's independence and it goes tits up who gets to vote on them coming back ? Will it be be the whole of the uk or just the Scottish ? "

Define tits up. 1.3 trillion debt? Is that tits up?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Is it important to remain in a currency union?

The Governor of the Bank of England is setting out his thoughts and has to remain independent.

I like the SNPs position on this, that they should be allowed to keep the pound post independence as it would benefit both countries.

SO STAY IN THE UNION THEN YOU UTTER SHOWER OF BASTARDS!

Thee currency union would work though. The political union doesn't work. "

If it suits your point it will work and a good idea

If it doesn't suit your point it won't work and a bad idea

That is the basis of your argument

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm just curious; if it's a yes vote and Scotland gets it's independence and it goes tits up who gets to vote on them coming back ? Will it be be the whole of the uk or just the Scottish ?

Define tits up. 1.3 trillion debt? Is that tits up?"

Of course not of that debt is Scotland's because .........

You have oil

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

If it suits your point it will work and a good idea

If it doesn't suit your point it won't work and a bad idea

That is the basis of your argument "

Well yes frankly. I'm sorry but we have 1 Tory mp in Scotland from a possible 59. Yet we have a Tory pm. That's not democratic. The country needs change.

The currency union makes sense post yes vote.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'm just curious; if it's a yes vote and Scotland gets it's independence and it goes tits up who gets to vote on them coming back ? Will it be be the whole of the uk or just the Scottish ?

Define tits up. 1.3 trillion debt? Is that tits up?"

Calm down , I said if. I'm only asking what would happen in this scenario.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

* none of that debt

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Of course not of that debt is Scotland's because .........

You have oil"

No we have a 8.4% share of that debt. We paid 64 billion interest over 32 years on a debt we didn't need. Scotland didn't need the loan. But we have it. System is broken.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If it suits your point it will work and a good idea

If it doesn't suit your point it won't work and a bad idea

That is the basis of your argument

Well yes frankly. I'm sorry but we have 1 Tory mp in Scotland from a possible 59. Yet we have a Tory pm. That's not democratic. The country needs change.

The currency union makes sense post yes vote. "
for Scotland it does

Maybe not for the remainder of the UK

And if it doesn't you may well be using the euro or bottles of oil

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

House!

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Well yes frankly. I'm sorry but we have 1 Tory mp in Scotland from a possible 59. Yet we have a Tory pm. That's not democratic. The country needs change.

The currency union makes sense post yes vote. "

you also have a scottish parliament... and the last time I checked that the SNP as the largest party... and they get to govern everything local to scotland on a scottish level...

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

If it suits your point it will work and a good idea

If it doesn't suit your point it won't work and a bad idea

That is the basis of your argument

Well yes frankly. I'm sorry but we have 1 Tory mp in Scotland from a possible 59. Yet we have a Tory pm. That's not democratic. The country needs change.

The currency union makes sense post yes vote. "

And how many Nats?

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By *abrina59TV/TS over a year ago

moved to cuckold land

If scotland vote yes then thete is no longer a united kingdom so what would give you the right to retsin the pound

The pound belongs to the uk not to England

Its that kind of srragance that will drive many to vote yes

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By *aisy100Woman over a year ago

wakefield

Wouldnt Scotland use their own currency...... the Scotish pound?

I hear people saying they will fail but why would they?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Of course not of that debt is Scotland's because .........

You have oil

No we have a 8.4% share of that debt. We paid 64 billion interest over 32 years on a debt we didn't need. Scotland didn't need the loan. But we have it. System is broken. "
its not about who's in power to you it's about money

If there were no oil which is what you are really basing your argument on you would have no argument

Scottish industry just like the rest of the UK was ageing, steel ,mining ,ship building

Look at RBS it's not £48 billion it's cost the tax payer far more and potentially a couple of hundred billion

Fred Goodwin can pretty much take the blame .An egotistical board room bully full of self interest

Gordon Brown another bully and Incompetent Buffon

You think none of that debt is yours and would not of been independence or not

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If scotland vote yes then thete is no longer a united kingdom so what would give you the right to retsin the pound

The pound belongs to the uk not to England

Its that kind of srragance that will drive many to vote yes"

On the bank notes it says I promise to pay the bearer on demand

Signed by the governor of the Bank of England

That promise is backed by the Bank of England and ultimately the UK government

There will still be a UK post vote which ever way it goes !

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

its not about who's in power to you it's about money

If there were no oil which is what you are really basing your argument on you would have no argument

Scottish industry just like the rest of the UK was ageing, steel ,mining ,ship building

Look at RBS it's not £48 billion it's cost the tax payer far more and potentially a couple of hundred billion

Fred Goodwin can pretty much take the blame .An egotistical board room bully full of self interest

Gordon Brown another bully and Incompetent Buffon

You think none of that debt is yours and would not of been independence or not

Believe me my reason for voting yes is not financial. I just completely believe that independence is the natural state for a person and a natural state for a country. As soon as you are dependent, you are vulnerable and you have a lack of control. I just want something better for scotland. I'm talking about the financials now because that is the topic we are discussing.

I'm not going to pretend it's going to be easy and I'm not going to claim that we won't have our dishonest bastards who will let us down as they have let us down before. But we will be accountable and we will have an element of control over it that we don't have now. Our children will not grow up feeling inferior to anyone, and believe me it does happen because I was one of them and I still see it now (I'm not sure you would understand unless you were from here). I lived in Ireland for a good few years and they have well and truly shook off any chip on the shoulder and sense of inferiority. The sense of confidence is palpable when compared to Scotland. The financials make sense to me but I want independence regardless of that fact.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

you also have a scottish parliament... and the last time I checked that the SNP as the largest party... and they get to govern everything local to scotland on a scottish level...

But we send our money south. We pay for nuclear weapons the majority of us don't agree with. We suffer Tory cuts and Tory policy which favours London and the wealthy even thoug we don't vote Tory. All we want is to have the people of Scotland to decide who governs Scotland. That's all.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Gordon Brown another bully and Incompetent Buffon

I won't argue with you there. A true idiot. But isn't it sad that all politicians who are remotely capable of big things are drawn south? If it weren't for the snp we would have the aplty named Iain Gray as the first minister. A man so inept at the very basics he was replaced with Johan Lamont. I'm pretty sure no one down south has heard of these people but believe me it not good.

Imagine if Scottish politicians only had one priority - Scotland.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Is it important to remain in a currency union?

The Governor of the Bank of England is setting out his thoughts and has to remain independent.

I like the SNPs position on this, that they should be allowed to keep the pound post independence as it would benefit both countries.

SO STAY IN THE UNION THEN YOU UTTER SHOWER OF BASTARDS!

Thee currency union would work though. The political union doesn't work. "

So they want the good bits but not the rest?

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

So they want the good bits but not the rest?

Yes. What is wrong with that? Evolution seems to have managed ok with type of rule? Good - keep. Bad - ditch.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

So they want the good bits but not the rest?

Yes. What is wrong with that? Evolution seems to have managed ok with type of rule? Good - keep. Bad - ditch. "

There you have it. Selfishness of the highest order.

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By *abrina59TV/TS over a year ago

moved to cuckold land

If scotland vote yes then thete is no longer a united kingdom so what would give you the right to retsin the pound

The pound belongs to the uk not to England

Its that kind of srragance that will drive many to

On the bank notes it says I promise to pay the bearer on demand

Signed by the governor of the Bank of England

That promise is backed by the Bank of England and ultimately the UK government

There will still be a UK post vote which ever way it goes !"

So if the uk is made up of england scotland ireland wales & one pulls out dont the other 3 have to re negotiate what is left?

Or does england just bully the rest to do as they wish

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So they want the good bits but not the rest?

Yes. What is wrong with that? Evolution seems to have managed ok with type of rule? Good - keep. Bad - ditch. "

if you want to use evolution as an argument about things getting better over time, i point you in the direction of the darwin awards, and indeed many posts on these very discussion boards and ask you, really?

evolution has happened for everyone?

in a good way?

you want independence, without the bad bits

newsflash fella, its gonna be a long hard struggle.

those countries that left the former soviet union didnt all drive rolls royces straight away.

but then, i suppose, you have oil

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

No tell that fat snp leader to get his own

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The whole fact that you want something that you claim, as a nationalist isn't yours, kind of stomps on any argument you might make for independence.

As for being ruled by a government you didnt vote for, well you had a chance to change that with the AV referendum. And unless an independent Scotland adopts AV then chances are a general election here will return a party with no clear majority anyway.

And this independence is just jingoism pure and simple. Railling against a country that did wrong a few hundred years ago while you were too busy fighting amongst yourselves.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"No tell that fat snp leader to get his own"

He's too busy kicking the Bute House cat. Puir thing has had to tuck a copy of the Shite Paper down his breeks.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"The whole fact that you want something that you claim, as a nationalist isn't yours, kind of stomps on any argument you might make for independence.

And this independence is just jingoism pure and simple. Railling against a country that did wrong a few hundred years ago while you were too busy fighting amongst yourselves. "

I'm sorry but what are you taking about. You think we had a chance of democracy by voting differently in the AV referendum? What planet are you on? Seriously. As tell us, what's "not mine?"

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

Stewart Hosiery is on the telly noo. Mair porkies than Angus Brendan.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

evolution has happened for everyone?

in a good way?

you want independence, without the bad bits

newsflash fella, its gonna be a long hard struggle.

those countries that left the former soviet union didnt all drive rolls royces straight away.

but then, i suppose, you have oil"

I'm fine with the long hard struggle. It's. It plain sailing at the moment. And no one is suggesting it'll be all riches and easy street. We just want a voice. Equality. Fairness. Democracy. For the hard of reading I'll say it again - no one is saying this will be easy. But it is not easy now. We want fairness. It's not personal and it's not tribalism.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Oil. It doesn't all belong to Scotland...

UK legislation puts most of it in Scotland's control, however International border law doesn't. So if a yes vote is secured than international law would take precedence, yes?

From wikipedia so possibly not 100% correct

Recent evidence by Kemp and Stephen (1999) has tried to estimate hypothetical Scottish shares of North Sea Oil revenue by dividing the UK sector of the North Sea into separate Scottish and UK sectors using the international principle of equidistance as utilised under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) - such a convention is used in defining the maritime assets of newly formed states and resolving international maritime disputes. The study by Kemp & Stephen showed that hypothesised Scottish shares of North Sea oil revenue over the period 1970 to 1999, varied to as high as 98%[12] dependent upon the price of oil and offset against taxable profits and the costs of exploration and development. However the application of the Convention (UNCLOS III) on baselines and the North Sea continental shelf case of 1969 is by no means cut and dried and by international convention maritime boundaries extend along the line of the land border. Looking at the Scottish English land border this heads north east from Berwick pointing towards Bergen in Norway rather than east towards Denmark as envisaged by many. A large proportion of the North Sea oil fields would under this scenario therefore belong to England not Scotland...

Of the limited number of Scottish people I've spoken to, none of them think it will be a yes vote.

My main concern is that with the loss of the 59 labour MP's the rest of the UK will effectively become a single party state as the Labour party will struggle to ever reach a majority with the loss of those seats. I'm neither here nor there with politics (they're all cnuts) but the prospect of a system where 1 party is almost gaurenteed to be in the majority is a scary one.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

And considering that a more than a few people reckon we go to war over oil in the middle east then Scotland may have a problem

A couple of empty dockyards and a squad of dragoons ain't going to be of much use

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"............. Looking at the Scottish English land border this heads north east from Berwick pointing towards Bergen in Norway rather than east towards Denmark as envisaged by many. ............"

Two in one sentence? Ya dancer!

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"And considering that a more than a few people reckon we go to war over oil in the middle east then Scotland may have a problem

A couple of empty dockyards and a squad of dragoons ain't going to be of much use

As someone said, in the increasingly unlikely event of Separation, Scotland won't have sufficient naval power to throw and exclusion zone around the Bass Rock.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

an, not and.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"Oil. It doesn't all belong to Scotland...

UK legislation puts most of it in Scotland's control, however International border law doesn't. So if a yes vote is secured than international law would take precedence, yes?

From wikipedia so possibly not 100% correct

Of the limited number of Scottish people I've spoken to, none of them think it will be a yes vote.

Ok first of all any oil that comes out of the ground after Independence Day is ours. Anyone wishing to disagree with that can argue with themselves because it's a fact of law. The lunatic argument I heard previously that it was already uk property is a mad as a lorry. And if you think this way, you are too. (And let me know what the annual turnover is from Irish oil while your at it!)

And it's not 59 labour seats at all. 6 of them are snp. But frankly, if that is the case, so something about it! Russell brand was right in a way. I get the frustration. Vote red, vote blue what the fcuk is the difference anyway!? But in Scotland we have a way out. We have a chance to make a REAL change. Not just a change that your promised in a election campaign, but real real change. Vote yes and vote labour and let's see the entire party suddenly realise Scotland is all that matters. What an opportunity.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

Even the Lib Dems have more MPs in Scotland than the SNP.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"Even the Lib Dems have more MPs in Scotland than the SNP."

The snp focus is Scotland, not Westminster.

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By *U1966Man over a year ago

Devon

If Scotland votes to leave the union then they can join the euro or set up their own currency

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So can you point me in the direction of the law that states all the remaining oil is the property of Scotland? International law would seem to disagree with your law. Do you think Scotland can walk away with those assets if it can be deemed to be within the internationally recognised territorial waters of the remainder of the UK? You only have to look at the divisions of the North Sea exclusive economic zones to see that none of the current divisions run horizontally east/west across the map, they follow the land borders to 200 maximumish miles. Can go further dependant upon the continental shelf. Newcastle's port may soon be taking away a good proportion of Aberdeen's work.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Oil. It doesn't all belong to Scotland...

UK legislation puts most of it in Scotland's control, however International border law doesn't. So if a yes vote is secured than international law would take precedence, yes?

From wikipedia so possibly not 100% correct

Of the limited number of Scottish people I've spoken to, none of them think it will be a yes vote.

dont you be referenceing russel brand.

he is OUR comic.

you get your bloody own lol

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Wouldnt Scotland use their own currency...... the Scotish pound?

I hear people saying they will fail but why would they?"

nothing to stop them setting up a scottish pound... it just them wont be linked currency wise to UK pound sterling... and any currency joining would be stickly one way (scotland to UK)

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

the majority of folk in Scotland are not daft enough to 'fix something which is not broken'..

Perhaps it isn't broken to you. Come up to Scotland and count the Tories. Then tell me the system isn't broken. "

would that be the tories elected by the Scottish voters..?

in the 'new Scotland', post a yes vote does this then infer that there will not be a tory party allowed...?

btw i am anything but a tory..

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By *abrina59TV/TS over a year ago

moved to cuckold land

So why shouldnt scotland keep the pound it is partly scotlands as much theirs as its england wales & irelands

Prehsps if all cant agree then we all have to scrap the pound and set new currencies for Scotland and whst ever the remaining alliance call themselfes once the uk no longer 3xists

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think Scotland should have its own currency. The Royal Bank of Scotland could sell bonds in the form of deep fried Mars bars or maybe Glasgow salads!

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

cool.. with regards to the navy... if they do vote for independence.. one of the 1st think the RUK (rest of UK) govt would probably do is take that couple of hundred million pound contract for naval servicing away from Goven... and give it to Portsmouth....

the funny thing is Ironic a yes vote from those "up north" would probably lead to greater nationalistic tendancies "down south"....

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

dont you be referenceing russel brand.

he is OUR comic.

you get your bloody own lol"

Haha fair enough. I actually almost did that earlier but stopped myself. Felt it was appropriate as it his frustration seemed to be wide felt.

Mmm, angry comedians who support independence. We just don't have any of them here!

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"So why shouldnt scotland keep the pound it is partly scotlands as much theirs as its england wales & irelands

Prehsps if all cant agree then we all have to scrap the pound and set new currencies for Scotland and whst ever the remaining alliance call themselfes once the uk no longer 3xists"

Pound Sterling is the Currency of the united kingdom... Scotland would not longer be part of that.....

as we said... there would be nothing to stop them setting up a "scottish pound" but with regards to any borrowing a "central bank of scotland" would be able to do.. thru bonds which a scottish would probably have to pay a higher yield and borrowing with a worse credit rating... they would be at ahuge disadvantage....

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

in the 'new Scotland', post a yes vote does this then infer that there will not be a tory party allowed...?

btw i am anything but a tory.."

Why shouldn't the Tories be allowed in Scotland? I'm sure if their policies appeal to people here then they will be voted in. Democracy is great that way.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Pound Sterling is the Currency of the united kingdom... Scotland would not longer be part of that.....

But again, you are assuming that if we leave we lose the pound simply by waking away. That is not how it works. We own a part of it. Everything the uk owns we also own.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Pound Sterling is the Currency of the united kingdom... Scotland would not longer be part of that.....

But again, you are assuming that if we leave we lose the pound simply by waking away. That is not how it works. We own a part of it. Everything the uk owns we also own. "

so, surely that doesnt only work one way, everything that is scottish, is also the UK's,

which means the rest of the UK has claim to these oil fields you ar so protective over

and you also own part of the UK debt.

swings and roundabouts.

cant just take all the good out of it

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

in the 'new Scotland', post a yes vote does this then infer that there will not be a tory party allowed...?

btw i am anything but a tory..

Why shouldn't the Tories be allowed in Scotland? I'm sure if their policies appeal to people here then they will be voted in. Democracy is great that way. "

so when the majority vote to remain the status quo..

end of argument..?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"So why shouldnt scotland keep the pound it is partly scotlands as much theirs as its england wales & irelands

Prehsps if all cant agree then we all have to scrap the pound and set new currencies for Scotland and whst ever the remaining alliance call themselfes once the uk no longer 3xists

Pound Sterling is the Currency of the united kingdom... Scotland would not longer be part of that.....

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

Pound Sterling is the Currency of the united kingdom... Scotland would not longer be part of that.....

But again, you are assuming that if we leave we lose the pound simply by waking away. That is not how it works. We own a part of it. Everything the uk owns we also own. "

But the same does not apply in reverse with regard to oil?

Does anyone know this? If we start drilling for the oil off the Falklands, would an independent Scotland receive any revenue?

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

so, surely that doesnt only work one way, everything that is scottish, is also the UK's,

which means the rest of the UK has claim to these oil fields you ar so protective over

and you also own part of the UK debt.

swings and roundabouts.

cant just take all the good out of it"

The oil fields are not an asset! They are a geographic location! If oil is pulled out from the ground then it is an asset. If you discover hidden treasure in your garden, part of it doesn't belong to the person who owned the house previously. The garden is not the asset. If you don't believe me on this than frankly that is your problem. It is the fact.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Pound Sterling is the Currency of the united kingdom... Scotland would not longer be part of that.....

But again, you are assuming that if we leave we lose the pound simply by waking away. That is not how it works. We own a part of it. Everything the uk owns we also own. "

I never said the "central bank of scotland" would start from scratch...

you want your share.. cool... you can also have 9% of the debt (using the last census figures).....

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

so, surely that doesnt only work one way, everything that is scottish, is also the UK's,

which means the rest of the UK has claim to these oil fields you ar so protective over

and you also own part of the UK debt.

swings and roundabouts.

cant just take all the good out of it

I really am very thick!

If this is correct, would the location be the North Sea and the oil an asset contained therein?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

have the currency. but lose the barnet formula. the most unjust tax the english have ever had to pay.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

so when the majority vote to remain the status quo..

end of argument..?"

I doubt it to be honest. Right now it's about 60/40 and the swing only goes one way. If yes is between 60/40 then that 49% won't disappear. If the desire for self determination grows then democracy would provide another referendum in due course. That's how it works. Inconvenient for those who oppose but how could it possibly be any different?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

so, surely that doesnt only work one way, everything that is scottish, is also the UK's,

which means the rest of the UK has claim to these oil fields you ar so protective over

and you also own part of the UK debt.

swings and roundabouts.

cant just take all the good out of it

no, it doesnt go to the last owner of the house, however, if it is stated as treasure, a percentage goes to the crown, ie the state, and so would the oil, like it or not.

cheer up jimmy.

and you havent answered the other question.

if the vote is no, is that end of argument?

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

I never said the "central bank of scotland" would start from scratch...

you want your share.. cool... you can also have 9% of the debt (using the last census figures).....

Of course! No one is saying we won't pay our fair share of the debt.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"have the currency. but lose the barnet formula. the most unjust tax the english have ever had to pay.

Perfect. Scotland pays more into the uk than we get back so it's not really working for us.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

so when the majority vote to remain the status quo..

end of argument..?

you answered just as i did, so ignore that bit.

so if the yessers will be granted another referendum on leaving, will the stayers be granted one on staying if the vote goes your way?

probably not.

that democracy for you.

ask the irish.

all the times i have been over there (over the last nearly 4 years its many many dozens) i have yet to find anyone that voted for the euro, either time

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A couple of questions.

What is the likelihood of independence happening?

Is it only certain parts of Scotland who want it?

Am really quite curious about the whole debate as it really does have a massive effect on the UK

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

no, it doesnt go to the last owner of the house, however, if it is stated as treasure, a percentage goes to the crown, ie the state, and so would the oil, like it or not.

cheer up jimmy.

and you havent answered the other question.

if the vote is no, is that end of argument?"

How much do Ireland pay the uk for the oil they discovered after they got independence?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

???? third most state dependant country in the world by all accounts!

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS over a year ago

Dundee

"of the 59 labour MP's the rest of the UK will effectively become a single party state as the Labour party will struggle to ever reach a majority with the loss of those seats. I'm neither here nor there with politics (they're all cnuts) but the prospect of a system where 1 party is almost gaurenteed to be in the majority is a scary one."

really? this again?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

no, it doesnt go to the last owner of the house, however, if it is stated as treasure, a percentage goes to the crown, ie the state, and so would the oil, like it or not.

cheer up jimmy.

and you havent answered the other question.

if the vote is no, is that end of argument?

How much do Ireland pay the uk for the oil they discovered after they got independence?"

thats not the question.

i asked you about the democratic validity of a referendum, when they will continue to be held until the 'correct' answer is gained.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

I never said the "central bank of scotland" would start from scratch...

you want your share.. cool... you can also have 9% of the debt (using the last census figures).....

Of course! No one is saying we won't pay our fair share of the debt. "

cool... so if we say the uk debt is about 20,000 pounds for every man woman and child... and there are 5.2 million people living in scotland....

I make your share of the debt... just over 1 trillion pounds.....

so being in mind the scottish pound would have no credit rating..... and the govt bond yields would have to be higher to get people to invest.... good luck on the amount of government borrowing you would need to do....

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

so when the majority vote to remain the status quo..

end of argument..?

you answered just as i did, so ignore that bit.

so if the yessers will be granted another referendum on leaving, will the stayers be granted one on staying if the vote goes your way?

probably not.

that democracy for you.

ask the irish.

all the times i have been over there (over the last nearly 4 years its many many dozens) i have yet to find anyone that voted for the euro, either time"

This depends on whether there is a desire amongst the electorate for that! I mean, if enough people want it and a party is elected with that in their manifesto, then why not?

Ps my fingers are fecking killing me fighting all you guys off!

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

Pound Sterling is the Currency of the united kingdom... Scotland would not longer be part of that.....

But again, you are assuming that if we leave we lose the pound simply by waking away. That is not how it works. We own a part of it. Everything the uk owns we also own. "

You amaze me Duncan. I fully understand that you want independence and will not be deflected by any argument from that stance and that is fair enough. But you keep refusing to hear what you are being told from every corner of the political and economic world. Just to remind you of the people you have dismissed as being either biased or not to be taken seriously because they were not addressing the Scotts...

The CEO of ASDA who said that if Scotland voted for independence then the Scots would have to accept that shop prices will increase...Seems he was only following a private agenda...

The President of Spain, who has said that the Scots should not think that their continued membership of the EU is assured if Scotland leave the UK...Seems those remarks were not directed at the Scots but at the Catalans...

And now the Governor of the Bank of England says that an independent Scotland could not keep the pound without giving up financial independence and that the UK could not be expected to underwrite Scottish banks and that an independent Scotland would be destroyed by an RBS failure... Guess thats just more 'vote no' propaganda...

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

[Removed by poster at 29/01/14 22:09:15]

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple over a year ago

in Lancashire

so when the majority vote to remain the status quo..

end of argument..?

what an absolute waste of money..

no is no, not the SNP spending more taxes on peddling their propoganda which they know will wear folks down..

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

cool... so if we say the uk debt is about 20,000 pounds for every man woman and child... and there are 5.2 million people living in scotland....

I make your share of the debt... just over 1 trillion pounds.....

Our debt is 8.4% of whatever yours is my friend! As are the assets!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

cool... so if we say the uk debt is about 20,000 pounds for every man woman and child... and there are 5.2 million people living in scotland....

I make your share of the debt... just over 1 trillion pounds.....

Our debt is 8.4% of whatever yours is my friend! As are the assets!"

So you'll all be happy with 8.4% of the oil revenue then will you??? LoL

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If scotland vote yes then thete is no longer a united kingdom so what would give you the right to retsin the pound

The pound belongs to the uk not to England

Its that kind of srragance that will drive many to vote yes

On the bank notes it says I promise to pay the bearer on demand

Signed by the governor of the Bank of England

That promise is backed by the Bank of England and ultimately the UK government

There will still be a UK post vote which ever way it goes !"

But there won't be a UK...think about it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Another question I have is if independence goes ahead and in years to come it is found not to be working for whatever reasons do we reunite?

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

The CEO of ASDA who said that if Scotland voted for independence then the Scots would have to accept that shop prices will increase...Seems he was only following a private agenda...

Thank you! That's very nice if you.

Anyway, I'm not ignoring people from around the economic and political world, I am countering their point of _iew.

Asda chairman - in sorry bit if prices go up in the asda supermarket then I'm sure another supermarket will establish itself in the place of asda. Hardly make or break is it? Really?

Spanish pm, he is fending off a catastrophic referendum (from his point of _iew) from Catalonia. What else would he say. Again, I'm not dismissing his point. I'm countering it and suggesting on the day of decision for Scotland's eu membership Spain will not vote against Scotland.

Carney said nothing today we didn't already know. He didn't put and end to anything or back anything. If Scotland loses done sovereignty by a currency union then so does England, Wales and Northern Ireland. So what?

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

If scotland vote yes then thete is no longer a united kingdom so what would give you the right to retsin the pound

The pound belongs to the uk not to England

Its that kind of srragance that will drive many to vote yes

On the bank notes it says I promise to pay the bearer on demand

Signed by the governor of the Bank of England

That promise is backed by the Bank of England and ultimately the UK government

There will still be a UK post vote which ever way it goes !

But there won't be a UK...think about it."

There would be a uk, just with no Scotland in it.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

So you'll all be happy with 8.4% of the oil revenue then will you??? LoL"

No. This is not the way it works. (He calmly wrote, gritting his teeth...)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Is it important to remain in a currency union?

The Governor of the Bank of England is setting out his thoughts and has to remain independent.

What do you think, OP?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There have been more threads on scots wanting to leave the country than the thatcher hating ones last year. I'm not in the least ways fucked by any of it. Tired of the debate either way because the unpalatable truth is that it's completely of no consequence x

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS over a year ago

Dundee

Pound Sterling is the Currency of the united kingdom... Scotland would not longer be part of that.....

But again, you are assuming that if we leave we lose the pound simply by waking away. That is not how it works. We own a part of it. Everything the uk owns we also own.

The CEO of ASDA who said that if Scotland voted for independence then the Scots would have to accept that shop prices will increase...Seems he was only following a private agenda...

It's not a case of refusing to hear. We do hear - and understand that it's not going to be easy, and nothing is guaranteed.

Believe me - we get that, and we know fine well that Salmond is unlikely to deliver on all his promises.

Thing is though - we aren't voting for him. We are voting for us.

Can you not see it from our point of _iew at all? Seriously.. if you had the chance to do away with the greed and corruption of Westminster and rebuilding the whole UK from the ground up... would you not take that chance?

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

but the issue is that most of the day to day local issues that mean most to scotland aren't made in westminster... it is made in Holyrood....

Health spending... Holyrood

Education spending... Holyrood

Transport Spending.... Holyrood

Devolved matters include:

agriculture, forestry and fisheries

education and training

environment

health and social services

housing

law and order (including the licensing of air weapons)

local government

sport and the arts

tourism and economic development

many aspects of transport

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If scotland vote yes then thete is no longer a united kingdom so what would give you the right to retsin the pound

The pound belongs to the uk not to England

Its that kind of srragance that will drive many to vote yes

On the bank notes it says I promise to pay the bearer on demand

Signed by the governor of the Bank of England

That promise is backed by the Bank of England and ultimately the UK government

There will still be a UK post vote which ever way it goes !

But there won't be a UK...think about it.

There would be a uk, just with no Scotland in it."

But surely if a yes vote essetially dissolves the union ergo no union, no UK?

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

" ....

Nothing we didn't already know but lots the Separatists refused to accept.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

but the issue is that most of the day to day local issues that mean most to scotland aren't made in westminster... it is made in Holyrood....

Health spending... Holyrood

Education spending... Holyrood

Transport Spending.... Holyrood

Devolved matters include:

agriculture, forestry and fisheries

education and training

environment

health and social services

housing

law and order (including the licensing of air weapons)

local government

sport and the arts

tourism and economic development

many aspects of transport

Those devolved powers are doing well that is true. Education is great and free (which is essential for a fair society) and the nhs Scotland is not threatened by privatisation in the same way as nhs england.

I hear that and I hear "this is what we can do with some if the power, imagine what we can do with more."

As I've said, we pay more in than we get back. The opportunity to make a huge difference is right in front if us. Why wouldn't we take it?

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

If scotland vote yes then thete is no longer a united kingdom so what would give you the right to retsin the pound

The pound belongs to the uk not to England

Its that kind of srragance that will drive many to vote yes

On the bank notes it says I promise to pay the bearer on demand

Signed by the governor of the Bank of England

That promise is backed by the Bank of England and ultimately the UK government

There will still be a UK post vote which ever way it goes !

But there won't be a UK...think about it.

There would be a uk, just with no Scotland in it.

But surely if a yes vote essetially dissolves the union ergo no union, no UK?"

It won't dissolve the union, it will diminish the size of the union. If it were a question of dissolving the union, the vote would be extended to all parts of the union and not just Scotland.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If scotland vote yes then thete is no longer a united kingdom so what would give you the right to retsin the pound

The pound belongs to the uk not to England

Its that kind of srragance that will drive many to vote yes

On the bank notes it says I promise to pay the bearer on demand

Signed by the governor of the Bank of England

That promise is backed by the Bank of England and ultimately the UK government

There will still be a UK post vote which ever way it goes !

But there won't be a UK...think about it.

There would be a uk, just with no Scotland in it.

But surely if a yes vote essetially dissolves the union ergo no union, no UK?

It won't dissolve the union, it will diminish the size of the union. If it were a question of dissolving the union, the vote would be extended to all parts of the union and not just Scotland."

Really?

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By *picyspiregirlCouple over a year ago

chesterfield

Yes.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"You amaze me Duncan. I fully understand that you want independence and will not be deflected by any argument from that stance and that is fair enough. But you keep refusing to hear what you are being told from every corner of the political and economic world. Just to remind you of the people you have dismissed as being either biased or not to be taken seriously because they were not addressing the Scotts...

The CEO of ASDA who said that if Scotland voted for independence then the Scots would have to accept that shop prices will increase...Seems he was only following a private agenda...

Thank you! That's very nice if you.

Anyway, I'm not ignoring people from around the economic and political world, I am countering their point of _iew.

Asda chairman - in sorry bit if prices go up in the asda supermarket then I'm sure another supermarket will establish itself in the place of asda. Hardly make or break is it? Really?

You really sound like a spoiled little child Duncan. You are refusing to accept that if Scotland vote for independence that there will be economic consequences and that you will NOT be able to dictate how others react. You are not countering any point of _iew, you are refusing to hear what the people who will have your future economic well being in their control are saying because they are using diplomatic language which is always soft until the point of no return is reached.

You may even be right about the Spanish President addressing the Catalans. The one thing I am sure of is that when Spain veto Scotland being allowed stay in the EU the Catalans will hear the very clear message that he will have sent through you!

Of course you will also not have the protection of the £ and world's 7th largest economy (Of course we may drop to 8 or 9 when you leave). Or the umbrella of the EU which when taken as a whole is the 2nd biggest in the world. It will be quite amusing to watch the worlds economic sharks show you the real cost of independance.

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By *b430Man over a year ago

Tayside

Yes

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By *ScotsmanMan over a year ago

ayrshire

I've seen the footage and Scotland surprisingly vote for independence.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yes."

So who agreed and formed the union?

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By *ionaScarletTV/TS over a year ago

Dundee

but the issue is that most of the day to day local issues that mean most to scotland aren't made in westminster... it is made in Holyrood....

Health spending... Holyrood

Education spending... Holyrood

Transport Spending.... Holyrood

Devolved matters include:

agriculture, forestry and fisheries

education and training

environment

health and social services

housing

law and order (including the licensing of air weapons)

local government

sport and the arts

tourism and economic development

many aspects of transport

You're quite right - we have plenty of freedom when it comes to how we spend our pocket money....

But let me put it another way - if say, the things you've mentioned there were the only things that the UK government was responsible for - and Brussels took care of the rest... would you be satisfied with that?

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By *icketysplits OP Woman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"Is it important to remain in a currency union?

The Governor of the Bank of England is setting out his thoughts and has to remain independent.

What do you think, OP?"

I don't think there can be a currency union if Scotland separates from the rest of the UK.

The power struggles of being "allowed" to determine their own future would be hampered by the ceding of sovereignty back to the rest of the UK if Scotland kept Sterling and anything that goes wrong would continue to be blamed on England.

The statements on this thread that there would be no United Kingdom if Scotland votes yes to independence are double edged. If Scotland leaving means the rest of the UK ceases to be a country then those of us in the rest of the UK SHOULD be entitled to a vote too. The yes vote campaign is operating on the fact that this is about Scotland determining its future so if people in Scotland feel that but the act will be to dissolve the whole of the United Kingdom then what they are imposing is not a vote for Scotland to determine its future but a vote for Scotland to determine the future of the much larger rest of the United Kingdom.

Spouting it's democracy doesn't wash when a minority will vote to affect a majority so much greater.

I have stated my other _iews further up the thread. I asked about when it would be over if there is a no vote but also if there is a yes vote.

No, if a country leaves its union then it can't take the bits it wants with it.

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