FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > time off in school term

time off in school term

By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

So one rule for us and one rule for them. the scum bags.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2108743/Primary-school-headteacher-takes-week-term-time-skiing-parents-fined-taking-kids-holiday.html

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Says it was time in lieu.

I think more teachers should get time in lieu for the work done during holidays, weekends and evenings.

Might open a few eyes.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Are you kidding me? Teachers are scumbags?

I honestly despair.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

"Says it was time in lieu.

I think more teachers should get time in lieu for the work done during holidays, weekends and evenings.

Might open a few eyes."

I love it when parents say they will get work from the teacher. They are busy enough in a job I bloody couldn't do..

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

Teachers have to mark homework on a daily basis...some have to work evenings for parents evening or practice for something...my sister is often marking until the early hours on occasions and by the way my sister is not a scumbag

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Any teacher who would have a time off to go skiing in term time is a scumbag. what sort of example does it set the kids.

We can have time off to go on holiday but you cannot.

Yes teacher work hard but they get over six weeks of a year. It not like they went into the job thinking is was going to be a 9 to 3 job after all.

Not all teacher are scumbags most are not it just the one or two like the one above that is.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"Any teacher who would have a time off to go skiing in term time is a scumbag. what sort of example does it set the kids.

We can have time off to go on holiday but you cannot.

Yes teacher work hard but they get over six weeks of a year. It not like they went into the job thinking is was going to be a 9 to 3 job after all.

Not all teacher are scumbags most are not it just the one or two like the one above that is.

Oh Kenny

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By *ingjayMan over a year ago

exeter

Teachers are going be of the few professions that are not v governed by set hours or maximum working ng hour weeks, they work hard into the night and cannot stop until the work is completed, they deserve their time in leiu, More energy needs to be put unto stopping the trend of holiday companies ripping off parents during school holidays, the difference in price is extremely unethical, it should be the opposite way round as they know they will get full bookings for those weeks so should lower the price instead of extorting parents, as the parents said paying the fine was cheaper than paying the extra to go on during the holidays

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don't think the issue is he took time off! But without reading the article I'm assuming he took kids out of school to go on holiday, hence the double standards ! Think if I'd been denied taking my kids on holiday or fined if I did it anyway and yet the teachers can remove theirs as they wish I'd be pissed aswell!

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

with all respect....all this work in th holidays, tonnes of marking arguments dont really hold out...they knew what they were getting into when they did their training. They chose to do the job.

As for the teacher being given holiday during term time....i think its poor timing what with the recent story of parents being fined £900 however i am sure that the school would have organised a support teacher to cover the work so the children would not have any education taken away from them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Any teacher who would have a time off to go skiing in term time is a scumbag. what sort of example does it set the kids.

We can have time off to go on holiday but you cannot.

Yes teacher work hard but they get over six weeks of a year. It not like they went into the job thinking is was going to be a 9 to 3 job after all.

Not all teacher are scumbags most are not it just the one or two like the one above that is.

well that article certainly got the desired effect

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"with all respect....all this work in th holidays, tonnes of marking arguments dont really hold out...they knew what they were getting into when they did their training. They chose to do the job.

People who properly understand what's involved with teaching don't tend to question the demands - which are considerable.

And the goal posts change constantly. No teacher would truly be aware of what's required to be a really good teacher when they trained.

It's very good timing... for the right wing media. Now what might prompt a national daily to run a story on one teachers holiday?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Teacher do a thank less job for the most part.

To say that going into a job you do not know the require meets is silly. And just left wing playing the pass the buck card.

Even when I was at school I know they work a lot long than the hours I spent in school. You have lesson planning and then marking test and home work. So you are talking at least 20 more hours a week on top of teaching time.

When I pick my job path I looked in to a lot found what they did the time the work and what was not job spec that you had to do.

This post is nothing about pay or the lack of it. Yes both side will try and make it more than it is.

The simple fact it he took time off for a holiday in term time. So what if it time in lieu he the head of a school and should lead by example.

Teachers should not get any time in lieu, a string of differing teachers can have only a bad effect of the education of the kids. If missing a few days from school to go on holiday is so bad for them then so much this be.

If you do not like a contract them do not singe it, it is a simple as that.

As for why then paper ran the story well let me see could it be that in the same area a couple are in court for taking the kids on holiday in term time, I think they are the first ones as well. Then it come to light that a Head teachers has take time off in term time for a holiday. Yes I think the people have a right now know about this. Will the head be give a fine for doing this no I do not think he will.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Teachers have to mark homework on a daily basis...some have to work evenings for parents evening or practice for something...my sister is often marking until the early hours on occasions and by the way my sister is not a scumbag

Well said! I work in education. Not a teacher but i still hv to work overtime. I dont get paid any extra or get the time off

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"Teacher do a thank less job for the most part.

To say that going into a job you do not know the require meets is silly. And just left wing playing the pass the buck card.

When I pick my job path I looked in to a lot found what they did the time the work and what was not job spec that you had to do.

This post is nothing about pay or the lack of it. Yes both side will try and make it more than it is.

The simple fact it he took time off for a holiday in term time. So what if it time in lieu he the head of a school and should lead by example.

If you do not like a contract them do not singe it, it is a simple as that.

I'm restraining myself in what I'm saying but Kenny can I ask are you a teacher or had any experience working in the education sector.....teachers go through utter hell on occasions with teaching children who at times can be abusive, vile etc....

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By *xxwiganMan over a year ago

LEIGH

"Teacher do a thank less job for the most part.

To say that going into a job you do not know the require meets is silly. And just left wing playing the pass the buck card.

When I pick my job path I looked in to a lot found what they did the time the work and what was not job spec that you had to do.

This post is nothing about pay or the lack of it. Yes both side will try and make it more than it is.

The simple fact it he took time off for a holiday in term time. So what if it time in lieu he the head of a school and should lead by example.

If you do not like a contract them do not singe it, it is a simple as that.

I think the teacher who taught you spelling and grammar must have had a lot of time off.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

From what I read of the article the bloke spent the Christmas holidays helping move the school into new premises. Presumably so that kids coukd start the new term smoothly at the new school.

I'll guess that the Governors (that include parents) made a decision that it would be fair to grant him a family holiday to compensate for the family time lost over Christmas.

That's the kind of school I'd like my kids to attend - a head teacher that goes the extra mile, and a board of governors that cares about the staff.

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By *riendly foeWoman over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

Its not about the teacher or the parent taking a holiday....

Its about the children missing out on education....

So, unless the teacher took children out of class for this holiday, I dont see your point!

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"From what I read of the article the bloke spent the Christmas holidays helping move the school into new premises. Presumably so that kids coukd start the new term smoothly at the new school.

I'll guess that the Governors (that include parents) made a decision that it would be fair to grant him a family holiday to compensate for the family time lost over Christmas.

That's the kind of school I'd like my kids to attend - a head teacher that goes the extra mile, and a board of governors that cares about the staff.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The Daily Fail has got what it wants - irate readers.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Teacher do a thank less job for the most part.

To say that going into a job you do not know the require meets is silly. And just left wing playing the pass the buck card.

When I pick my job path I looked in to a lot found what they did the time the work and what was not job spec that you had to do.

This post is nothing about pay or the lack of it. Yes both side will try and make it more than it is.

The simple fact it he took time off for a holiday in term time. So what if it time in lieu he the head of a school and should lead by example.

If you do not like a contract them do not singe it, it is a simple as that.

And your point been?

Does that give them the right to have time of in term time to go on holiday?

Ask any one that deals with the public on a day to day, they will tell you there are a lot of people out there just the same. I have seen a supermarket work spat at in the face, just because the store did not have that this women was looking for.

What makes teachers a special case, my I ask you?

In answer to your question I use to go with a teacher. Other than that none.

Every job has it up and down people.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Teacher do a thank less job for the most part.

To say that going into a job you do not know the require meets is silly. And just left wing playing the pass the buck card.

When I pick my job path I looked in to a lot found what they did the time the work and what was not job spec that you had to do.

This post is nothing about pay or the lack of it. Yes both side will try and make it more than it is.

The simple fact it he took time off for a holiday in term time. So what if it time in lieu he the head of a school and should lead by example.

If you do not like a contract them do not singe it, it is a simple as that.

I think the teacher who taught you spelling and grammar must have had a lot of time off."

Epic contribution. Cannot find any to say but to insult a person have a debate. And add nothing to the debate at all.

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By *xxwiganMan over a year ago

LEIGH

"Teacher do a thank less job for the most part.

To say that going into a job you do not know the require meets is silly. And just left wing playing the pass the buck card.

When I pick my job path I looked in to a lot found what they did the time the work and what was not job spec that you had to do.

This post is nothing about pay or the lack of it. Yes both side will try and make it more than it is.

The simple fact it he took time off for a holiday in term time. So what if it time in lieu he the head of a school and should lead by example.

If you do not like a contract them do not singe it, it is a simple as that.

I think the teacher who taught you spelling and grammar must have had a lot of time off.

Epic contribution. Cannot find any to say but to insult a person have a debate. And add nothing to the debate at all. "

see previous comment

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Its not about the teacher or the parent taking a holiday....

Its about the children missing out on education....

So, unless the teacher took children out of class for this holiday, I dont see your point!"

So you missed the point then.

It is all about a head teacher taking time off in term time. It is saying it is okay to take time off in term time for a holiday if you like. I bet you if parent in the same school did they same they would be fined.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Teacher do a thank less job for the most part.

To say that going into a job you do not know the require meets is silly. And just left wing playing the pass the buck card.

When I pick my job path I looked in to a lot found what they did the time the work and what was not job spec that you had to do.

This post is nothing about pay or the lack of it. Yes both side will try and make it more than it is.

The simple fact it he took time off for a holiday in term time. So what if it time in lieu he the head of a school and should lead by example.

If you do not like a contract them do not singe it, it is a simple as that.

I think the teacher who taught you spelling and grammar must have had a lot of time off.

Epic contribution. Cannot find any to say but to insult a person have a debate. And add nothing to the debate at all. "

You're not seeking debate.

You've made your point (based only on a headline) and will now continue to repeat the same point throughout, regardless of other points.

Bait perhaps, but not debate.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Teacher do a thank less job for the most part.

To say that going into a job you do not know the require meets is silly. And just left wing playing the pass the buck card.

When I pick my job path I looked in to a lot found what they did the time the work and what was not job spec that you had to do.

This post is nothing about pay or the lack of it. Yes both side will try and make it more than it is.

The simple fact it he took time off for a holiday in term time. So what if it time in lieu he the head of a school and should lead by example.

If you do not like a contract them do not singe it, it is a simple as that.

I think the teacher who taught you spelling and grammar must have had a lot of time off.

Epic contribution. Cannot find any to say but to insult a person have a debate. And add nothing to the debate at all.

see previous comment"

Saying the same thing two time does not change that you are saying, or the meaning of what you are saying.

So please tell why you decided in insult someone.

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By *eryBigGirlWoman over a year ago

East Yorkshire

Has anyone actually looked at the article. It's from March 2012 so not exactly breaking news and come on the daily mail - it's all utter bollocks they write anyway!!!!!

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"Teacher do a thank less job for the most part.

To say that going into a job you do not know the require meets is silly. And just left wing playing the pass the buck card.

When I pick my job path I looked in to a lot found what they did the time the work and what was not job spec that you had to do.

This post is nothing about pay or the lack of it. Yes both side will try and make it more than it is.

The simple fact it he took time off for a holiday in term time. So what if it time in lieu he the head of a school and should lead by example.

If you do not like a contract them do not singe it, it is a simple as that.

And your point been?

Does that give them the right to have time of in term time to go on holiday?

What makes teachers a special case, my I ask you?

In answer to your question I use to go with a teacher. Other than that none.

Every job has it up and down people.

Your phrase of calling teachers scum bags has stuck with me I'm afraid.....

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By *xxwiganMan over a year ago

LEIGH

"Teacher do a thank less job for the most part.

To say that going into a job you do not know the require meets is silly. And just left wing playing the pass the buck card.

When I pick my job path I looked in to a lot found what they did the time the work and what was not job spec that you had to do.

This post is nothing about pay or the lack of it. Yes both side will try and make it more than it is.

The simple fact it he took time off for a holiday in term time. So what if it time in lieu he the head of a school and should lead by example.

If you do not like a contract them do not singe it, it is a simple as that.

And your point been?

Does that give them the right to have time of in term time to go on holiday?

What makes teachers a special case, my I ask you?

In answer to your question I use to go with a teacher. Other than that none.

Every job has it up and down people.

Your phrase of calling teachers scum bags has stuck with me I'm afraid....."

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Teacher do a thank less job for the most part.

To say that going into a job you do not know the require meets is silly. And just left wing playing the pass the buck card.

When I pick my job path I looked in to a lot found what they did the time the work and what was not job spec that you had to do.

This post is nothing about pay or the lack of it. Yes both side will try and make it more than it is.

The simple fact it he took time off for a holiday in term time. So what if it time in lieu he the head of a school and should lead by example.

If you do not like a contract them do not singe it, it is a simple as that.

I think the teacher who taught you spelling and grammar must have had a lot of time off.

Epic contribution. Cannot find any to say but to insult a person have a debate. And add nothing to the debate at all.

You're not seeking debate.

You've made your point (based only on a headline) and will now continue to repeat the same point throughout, regardless of other points.

Bait perhaps, but not debate."

Then I am sorry you feel that way.

I have stated my point of _iew and given reasons for them. Other people have give their own point of _iew and their own reasons for them. This I have responded to these points. Yes I repeated myself a few times, I have also add to my reasons and _iews on the subject.

To me a Debate is a contention in an argument or discussion. Between two or more people with two more differing points of _iew on the same matter.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I've no doubt you're well versed in the skills of mass debate

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"Teacher do a thank less job for the most part.

To say that going into a job you do not know the require meets is silly. And just left wing playing the pass the buck card.

When I pick my job path I looked in to a lot found what they did the time the work and what was not job spec that you had to do.

This post is nothing about pay or the lack of it. Yes both side will try and make it more than it is.

The simple fact it he took time off for a holiday in term time. So what if it time in lieu he the head of a school and should lead by example.

If you do not like a contract them do not singe it, it is a simple as that.

I think the teacher who taught you spelling and grammar must have had a lot of time off.

Epic contribution. Cannot find any to say but to insult a person have a debate. And add nothing to the debate at all.

You're not seeking debate.

You've made your point (based only on a headline) and will now continue to repeat the same point throughout, regardless of other points.

Bait perhaps, but not debate.

Then I am sorry you feel that way.

To me a Debate is a contention in an argument or discussion. Between two or more people with two more differing points of _iew on the same matter.

A fair debate is treating people fairly...calling a profession scum bags is not fair...

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By *xxwiganMan over a year ago

LEIGH

"I've no doubt you're well versed in the skills of mass debate"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The only teachers I have had interaction with, have taken holidays in July and August.

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By *eryBigGirlWoman over a year ago

East Yorkshire

"I've no doubt you're well versed in the skills of mass debate

I chuckled at that too

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Teacher do a thank less job for the most part.

To say that going into a job you do not know the require meets is silly. And just left wing playing the pass the buck card.

When I pick my job path I looked in to a lot found what they did the time the work and what was not job spec that you had to do.

This post is nothing about pay or the lack of it. Yes both side will try and make it more than it is.

The simple fact it he took time off for a holiday in term time. So what if it time in lieu he the head of a school and should lead by example.

If you do not like a contract them do not singe it, it is a simple as that.

I think the teacher who taught you spelling and grammar must have had a lot of time off.

Epic contribution. Cannot find any to say but to insult a person have a debate. And add nothing to the debate at all.

You're not seeking debate.

You've made your point (based only on a headline) and will now continue to repeat the same point throughout, regardless of other points.

Bait perhaps, but not debate.

Then I am sorry you feel that way.

To me a Debate is a contention in an argument or discussion. Between two or more people with two more differing points of _iew on the same matter.

A fair debate is treating people fairly...calling a profession scum bags is not fair..."

A fair point.

I can see your point and my first post in not very clear at all. It was wrong of me to imply that everyone in a profession is a scum bag is wrong of me. For that I am sorry.

So to clean thing up a bit. Any teacher that would or head teacher that would take time off in term time is a scum bag not all teacher or head teachers.

More insults so sad of some people in today's world.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"Teacher do a thank less job for the most part.

To say that going into a job you do not know the require meets is silly. And just left wing playing the pass the buck card.

When I pick my job path I looked in to a lot found what they did the time the work and what was not job spec that you had to do.

This post is nothing about pay or the lack of it. Yes both side will try and make it more than it is.

The simple fact it he took time off for a holiday in term time. So what if it time in lieu he the head of a school and should lead by example.

If you do not like a contract them do not singe it, it is a simple as that.

I think the teacher who taught you spelling and grammar must have had a lot of time off.

Epic contribution. Cannot find any to say but to insult a person have a debate. And add nothing to the debate at all.

You're not seeking debate.

You've made your point (based only on a headline) and will now continue to repeat the same point throughout, regardless of other points.

Bait perhaps, but not debate.

Then I am sorry you feel that way.

To me a Debate is a contention in an argument or discussion. Between two or more people with two more differing points of _iew on the same matter.

A fair debate is treating people fairly...calling a profession scum bags is not fair...

A fair point.

I can see your point and my first post in not very clear at all. It was wrong of me to imply that everyone in a profession is a scum bag is wrong of me. For that I am sorry.

So to clean thing up a bit. Any teacher that would or head teacher that would take time off in term time is a scum bag not all teacher or head teachers.

More insults so sad of some people in today's world.

Kenny regardless if they took time off in term time does not make them a scum bag!!!!!!!!!

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"From what I read of the article the bloke spent the Christmas holidays helping move the school into new premises. Presumably so that kids coukd start the new term smoothly at the new school.

I'll guess that the Governors (that include parents) made a decision that it would be fair to grant him a family holiday to compensate for the family time lost over Christmas.

That's the kind of school I'd like my kids to attend - a head teacher that goes the extra mile, and a board of governors that cares about the staff.

This is was what the article stated....from 2012

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By *xxwiganMan over a year ago

LEIGH

A fair point.

I can see your point and my first post in not very clear at all. It was wrong of me to imply that everyone in a profession is a scum bag is wrong of me. For that I am sorry.

So to clean thing up a bit. Any teacher that would or head teacher that would take time off in term time is a scum bag not all teacher or head teachers.

More insults so sad of some people in today's world.

I hope the irony of that last sentence is not lost on you kenny

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

The UK government says the education of the children is so important, that if they take time off from school that is not authorised my the head teacher they can fine the parents.

But a head teacher can have time off in term time, that is not a problem at all.

So a head teacher is happy to have time off and happy to fine parents that take their kids out of school as they cannot get time off in the school holidays.

Yes that person is a scumbag.

No I did not see the date was in 2012. It came up as a related story the one I was reading. As the rules have been in place a number of years and it even imply this in the story.

It is fair to say he is not here to defend himself, so insulting him might be wrong. I am more than happy to say it to his face. There are something you just do not do and this in my book is one of them. If you enforce rules you have to live by the same rules as well.

Other people are here and can defends themselves. One used insults as first resort. Others look like they are not willing to debate the matter and are happy to just insult people.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

Unless I've missed something 1) he's a head teacher - not a classroom teacher and 2) he didn't take any kids out of school to go away.

No child lost any education.

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By *xxwiganMan over a year ago

LEIGH

"Unless I've missed something 1) he's a head teacher - not a classroom teacher and 2) he didn't take any kids out of school to go away.

No child lost any education."

Very true but I don't think this will persuade Kenny to change his point of _iew.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"Unless I've missed something 1) he's a head teacher - not a classroom teacher and 2) he didn't take any kids out of school to go away.

No child lost any education.

Very true but I don't think this will persuade Kenny to change his point of _iew."

I would waste my breath.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

Unless he took his kids out of school I don't see a problem....anyone know if he did?

Calling someone a scumbag is a bit rough though.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"The UK government says the education of the children is so important, that if they take time off from school that is not authorised my the head teacher they can fine the parents.

But a head teacher can have time off in term time, that is not a problem at all.

So a head teacher is happy to have time off and happy to fine parents that take their kids out of school as they cannot get time off in the school holidays.

Yes that person is a scumbag.

No I did not see the date was in 2012. It came up as a related story the one I was reading. As the rules have been in place a number of years and it even imply this in the story.

Other people are here and can defends themselves. One used insults as first resort. Others look like they are not willing to debate the matter and are happy to just insult people.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Teacher do a thank less job for the most part.

To say that going into a job you do not know the require meets is silly. And just left wing playing the pass the buck card.

When I pick my job path I looked in to a lot found what they did the time the work and what was not job spec that you had to do.

This post is nothing about pay or the lack of it. Yes both side will try and make it more than it is.

The simple fact it he took time off for a holiday in term time. So what if it time in lieu he the head of a school and should lead by example.

If you do not like a contract them do not singe it, it is a simple as that.

You went to school??!??

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"Unless he took his kids out of school I don't see a problem....anyone know if he did?

Calling someone a scumbag is a bit rough though.

I see no mention of kids and you can bet the Mail wouldn't miss such an opportunity to embroider their bile.

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By *iss_tressWoman over a year ago

London

"Unless I've missed something 1) he's a head teacher - not a classroom teacher and 2) he didn't take any kids out of school to go away.

No child lost any education."

They didn't, but Kenny's on a roll!

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Unless I've missed something 1) he's a head teacher - not a classroom teacher and 2) he didn't take any kids out of school to go away.

No child lost any education."

Yes you have missed something.

I never said any kids were taken out of school on his holiday. Yes he is a head teacher that is part of the point.

It is a head teachers job to run the school and provide a role model for the kids. How can he do that if he is not there. Part of his job is to authorise absentees from school of the children under his care. At best it is double standards to take time off in term time.

Try telling a child that the head of your school can go on holiday in term time but they cannot? I think almost all kids would feel that was very unfair.

Okay so no child lost any education. What is your point then please?

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"Unless I've missed something 1) he's a head teacher - not a classroom teacher and 2) he didn't take any kids out of school to go away.

No child lost any education.

They didn't, but Kenny's on a roll!

He's a man who cannot abide rudeness.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

".......

Try telling a child that the head of your school can go on holiday in term time but they cannot? I think almost all kids would feel that was very unfair.

......

The sooner kids learn life isn't fair the better.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Kenny, can I ask a pertinent question:

Have you a dog in this fight? If not, what makes you so crazy about this topic? Calling people scumbags etc is not really very nice now is it.

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By *xxwiganMan over a year ago

LEIGH

"Unless I've missed something 1) he's a head teacher - not a classroom teacher and 2) he didn't take any kids out of school to go away.

No child lost any education.

Yes you have missed something.

I never said any kids were taken out of school on his holiday. Yes he is a head teacher that is part of the point.

Try telling a child that the head of your school can go on holiday in term time but they cannot? I think almost all kids would feel that was very unfair.

Okay so no child lost any education. What is your point then please?

So you are saying as the head he should be in school when the school is open every day, so that the school runs successfully?

Does you arguement include the chief executive of a hospital. The hospital is open 365 days a year and without the chief executive present every day the hospital cannot run successfully.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The point that you are trying to make is not relevant, the students are of compulsory school age, the head teacher is not!

I would hazard a guess that the head does not wear a school uniform, but that he enforces the wearing of it with regards to the students, does that too make him a scum bag?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The point that you are trying to make is not relevant, the students are of compulsory school age, the head teacher is not!

I would hazard a guess that the head does not wear a school uniform, but that he enforces the wearing of it with regards to the students, does that too make him a scum bag?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

By the OP's admission, this is an old article.

By my reckoning the Daily Mail is no better than it was a year ago. Therefore, I deduce it to be utter mud slinging crock.

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By *eryBigGirlWoman over a year ago

East Yorkshire

"By the OP's admission, this is an old article.

By my reckoning the Daily Mail is no better than it was a year ago. Therefore, I deduce it to be utter mud slinging crock. "

Exactly. I posted the same about 5 hours ago!!!

Lots of people getting their knickers in a twist over what's probably a load of lies anyway but for the record OP it's still very unkind to call anyone scumbags regardless of what they did particularly as you really don't know the full story and you clearly haven't even read this very old article fully as there are many inaccuracies in your subsequent posts

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Just how much time per annum do teachers spend at their place of work? the classroom. Compared to other forms of employment they have a very well paid job. Before commenting on this ask your boss if you can work from home. The school I worked at opened at 7am and closed at 17.30

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

"The UK government says the education of the children is so important, that if they take time off from school that is not authorised my the head teacher they can fine the parents.

But a head teacher can have time off in term time, that is not a problem at all.

So a head teacher is happy to have time off and happy to fine parents that take their kids out of school as they cannot get time off in the school holidays.

Yes that person is a scumbag.

No I did not see the date was in 2012. It came up as a related story the one I was reading. As the rules have been in place a number of years and it even imply this in the story.

Other people are here and can defends themselves. One used insults as first resort. Others look like they are not willing to debate the matter and are happy to just insult people.

The authorising of holidays for children is to minimise the disruption to their education. As I said before a teachers absence from school would be covered by support or relief teachers and so there would be no disruption to the children's education.

The head teacher had to get permission from the governors of the school to take the holiday as he had worked over Christmas. Do really he followed the same process as parent had to back when the story was relevant.

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By *athnBobCouple over a year ago

sandwell

I know a few teachers and I would comment on their behalf so to speak.

According to government figures (not union) an average teacher works an average of 51 hours a week. If you average that out over the working year that equates to 42 hours a week taking into account extra holidays.

Only in exceptional circumstances can they take time off for personal reasons during term time. Officially they are allowed 2 days off for the death of a parent, spouse or child. zero for any other relative. If they take time off to care for a sick child their pay is docked.

A classroom teacher will NOT get any time off in lieu.

The one thing that really annoys my friends is that if a child is taken out of school then they (the teacher) gets the blame if the child fails to catch up so they end up having to work longer hours so the parents can save a few pounds on a holiday.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 18/01/14 09:22:11]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Also, I'd like to add, many teachers are working on saturdays and run revision classes in the holidays...

If the impact of the Headteacher's absence was minimal and it would be as schools tend to have at least one deputy, and if the Headteacher deserved the break, which in this instance it appears he did, then there's no real issue, besides this resentment some people appear to have when others have something good happen to them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Scum bags FFs it gets worse, anyone who thinks becoming a teacher is easy, well go for it and when your sat up till silly o'clock in the morning preparing for lessons come back and say its easy

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I know taking kids out of school disrupts their education to a certain extent, but what about the parents who work for a minimum wage in the tourist industry who can't afford or are able to take kids on holiday during school holidays as that is their busiest time at work? As I said to my son's head teacher recently when she comments " I hope ure not gonna take your son out of school in term time this year!" " please remember it was me serving ure Xmas party and serving you drinks until early hours of the morning, if we all worked the same hours the world would be very boring!" while teachers work very hard and do long hours they are well rewarded for it with wages in excess of 30k a year for bottom of ladder teachers I'm small schools, bigger the school an higher up the ladder greater the wage!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

30k... Where you get that from... It's no where near that as I looked at switching and going on to do s pgce.

Anyway if a head teacher or any teacher took a week off term time then so what.. unless they are taking kids away too it's no different to anyone else having a week off work.

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By *xxwiganMan over a year ago

LEIGH

"I know taking kids out of school disrupts their education to a certain extent, but what about the parents who work for a minimum wage in the tourist industry who can't afford or are able to take kids on holiday during school holidays as that is their busiest time at work? As I said to my son's head teacher recently when she comments " I hope ure not gonna take your son out of school in term time this year!" " please remember it was me serving ure Xmas party and serving you drinks until early hours of the morning, if we all worked the same hours the world would be very boring!" while teachers work very hard and do long hours they are well rewarded for it with wages in excess of 30k a year for bottom of ladder teachers I'm small schools, bigger the school an higher up the ladder greater the wage! "

In excess of 30K for bottom of the ladder!!! starting salary for NQT is £21,804. After 6 years experience it rises to £31,868 (london weigting not included). The maximum a classroom teacher can earn with no responsibilities is £37,124.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"By the OP's admission, this is an old article.

By my reckoning the Daily Mail is no better than it was a year ago. Therefore, I deduce it to be utter mud slinging crock.

Exactly. I posted the same about 5 hours ago!!!

Why did you say I have not read the article.

Yes I misted the time stamp on it I have said as much and sad sorry for this, I have said how I found the article. The time stamp small line. The article clearly stats the head teachers has previously turned down requests to take children out of lessons for a holiday during the academic year. Parents at his own school think is it wrong for him to take the time off. The article says it is a family holiday it does not confirm that he took his own children out of school for the holiday but it is implied nor did I say he did. I said he taken time off in term time.

He is the head of the school dealing with builders and the like is part of his job. May people have to work unpaid overtime and long hours as well. Some of them on minimum wage as well. Been available to deal with builders is part of the job, not nice but part of the job. If he does not like the job then he should look for a differing job.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Try breaking that down to hourly pay rate I bet you can't

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By *B9 QueenWoman over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

Blah blah blah scumbag teachers blah blah blah loads of holidays blah blah blah knew what they were getting into blah blah blah.

Anyone not working in education who thinks they can do better feel free to get a degree and post grad teaching qualification, and show everyone how it's done.

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By *B9 QueenWoman over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

Ps teachers at the bottom of the ladder in teaching DO NOT earn in excess of 30K. Only once a teacher gets into UPS scale do those kind of figures come in and they have to pass a pretty rigorous threshold to prove they are worth it.

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By *Kgirl80Woman over a year ago

South Coast

I have no words.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

"Blah blah blah scumbag teachers blah blah blah loads of holidays blah blah blah knew what they were getting into blah blah blah.

Anyone not working in education who thinks they can do better feel free to get a degree and post grad teaching qualification, and show everyone how it's done. "

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

"Ps teachers at the bottom of the ladder in teaching DO NOT earn in excess of 30K. Only once a teacher gets into UPS scale do those kind of figures come in and they have to pass a pretty rigorous threshold to prove they are worth it. "

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

[Removed by poster at 18/01/14 18:28:23]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I get paid a 38 week wage but work more like a 45 - 46 one

I work late .. start early .. because I love the children I work with

I can't take a holiday when I want to .. I HAVE to take it when Im told to but then I can't because its expensive

Im no scumbag I work bloody hard for very little money

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By *B9 QueenWoman over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

"[Removed by poster at 18/01/14 18:28:23]"

No one said that they could do better but the general tone is quite negative and reading between the lines thrre is a sense some people think they could. Furthermore, those who criticise are generally in ignorance of what teaching really entails.

Let them try a term and see what they have to say afterwards.

I doubt my posts will elicit much response other than more ill-informed criticism, however.

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

I read two from the top, two in the middle and two at the bottom.

Sheesh! Calling a whole profession scumbags, taking offence at comments made by contributors and basically not understanding the story the Mail posted is my conclusion.

Taking time out during term time is really very unusual. The school recognised that the time could not be claimed back in any other way and granted a leave.

Admittedly the timing of the story doesn't sit well with the other press furore of "hardworking parents/families being punished and fined" but I suspect that was the point.

More and more schools I know of require teachers to start at 8am and finish around 9pm. They are in class from 8.30am and finish the teaching part at 3 or 3.30pm. They then run advisory groups/detention (some on Saturdays) or extra curricular activities. After that they are required to be on line to answer homework queries until 9pm. During that time they also have to post the online details of attendance and performance of every child they have seen that day. I know that's not all schools but it is certainly many of the secondaries I know.

So, this story was about a teacher who did the usual job, took on extra work when everyone else was on holiday and has been recompensed for the extra duties with time off.

If that teacher is a scumbag then I would like to see the world full of scumbags.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I get paid a 38 week wage but work more like a 45 - 46 one

I work late .. start early .. because I love the children I work with

I can't take a holiday when I want to .. I HAVE to take it when Im told to but then I can't because its expensive

Im no scumbag I work bloody hard for very little money "

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I read two from the top, two in the middle and two at the bottom.

Sheesh! Calling a whole profession scumbags, taking offence at comments made by contributors and basically not understanding the story the Mail posted is my conclusion.

Taking time out during term time is really very unusual. The school recognised that the time could not be claimed back in any other way and granted a leave.

Admittedly the timing of the story doesn't sit well with the other press furore of "hardworking parents/families being punished and fined" but I suspect that was the point.

So, this story was about a teacher who did the usual job, took on extra work when everyone else was on holiday and has been recompensed for the extra duties with time off.

If that teacher is a scumbag then I would like to see the world full of scumbags.

And then prepare lessons plans for the next day

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Teachers work a 6 week term(approx.) have a half term plus other times off. Their hours may vary but the ones I know start at 0845 with a break then a lunch time plus an afternoon break and clock off at 3.15,

Their place of work is the classroom during term time, it can be calculated that working a 40 hour week they work 3 months of the year.

As it is stated that they spend so long etc working at home this maybe hearsay or Bull. To work more that 48hours per week whether at work or home for purposes other than security is in breach of the Work Time Regulations, someone is telling porkies.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"Unless he took his kids out of school I don't see a problem....anyone know if he did?

Calling someone a scumbag is a bit rough though.

I see no mention of kids and you can bet the Mail wouldn't miss such an opportunity to embroider their bile."

Having just read about it I think you may have missed a bit as it said the school wouldn't comment on wether he took his kids out of school or not.

The story seems to be true, so I am not sure why the source of it always gets a slagging off.

Now ok I don't read the mail, but as you seem to to be able to know so much about it, then maybe you should change papers as you don't seem happy with it.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"Unless he took his kids out of school I don't see a problem....anyone know if he did?

Calling someone a scumbag is a bit rough though.

I see no mention of kids and you can bet the Mail wouldn't miss such an opportunity to embroider their bile.

Having just read about it I think you may have missed a bit as it said the school wouldn't comment on wether he took his kids out of school or not.

The story seems to be true, so I am not sure why the source of it always gets a slagging off.

Now ok I don't read the mail, but as you seem to to be able to know so much about it, then maybe you should change papers as you don't seem happy with it.

I'm happy with Andrex.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Teachers work a 6 week term(approx.) have a half term plus other times off. Their hours may vary but the ones I know start at 0845 with a break then a lunch time plus an afternoon break and clock off at 3.15,

Their place of work is the classroom during term time, it can be calculated that working a 40 hour week they work 3 months of the year.

Indeed someone is, as I know many people in the teaching profession, both secondary and primary. I know some who work in academies, are contractually obliged to work on Saturdays...and finish weekdays at 5pm. I don't know any that start at 0845, most are in at 8am, one I know goes in at 6-6.30 everyday and he's a union rep!

I know of at least two schools where the teachers don't get the ppa time they're legally entitled to, and of one stayed open till after 12am when OFSTED had announced it was coming for an inspection.

In any profession, there are people that work exceptionally hard, and some that don't.

In reference to earlier comments: Sometimes people would like a certain flexibility from their place work, such as the case here, where the head worked through his Christmas...some are suggesting, that instead of looking to acquire that flexibility (which this head teacher managed to do), he should just look for another job...or deal with it. Why would you, when you can stay in the job, and reach a compromise the affected parties are happy with?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Their place of work is the classroom during term time, it can be calculated that working a 40 hour week they work 3 months of the year.

I don't think you know any teachers!

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

I think there is a common misconception that teachers work the hours that the children are at school.

This isn't the case for most teachers/ TA's.

I would imagine if you counted the extra hours they do work it would swallow up some of the holidays they get.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

It is looking like people are picking to read only the parts that suit them.

I never said all teacher are scumbags.

I said This teacher is a scumbag and any teacher that would take time off for a family holiday in term time then turn around and say to parent you cannot take your kids out of school for a holiday is a scumbag.

A quick job search for head teacher job find me looking at head teacher and assistants head teacher job in Sandwell and in Dudley, with a pay set at £40 to £50K

I not sorry but talking to and sorting out builders in not extra work it is part of his job. It is part of running the school. Seeing that the school they are running has building fit to teach in cannot be been seen as extra work.

Ask any boss there is a lot of work they have to do that is not written down in their contract. They get paid a lot and so have to work for it.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

"So one rule for us and one rule for them. the scum bags.

You did call them all scumbags. This is from your opening post and you never said 'scumbag' meaning just this teacher, you sais scumbags.....plural.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It is looking like people are picking to read only the parts that suit them.

I never said all teacher are scumbags.

A quick job search for head teacher job find me looking at head teacher and assistants head teacher job in Sandwell and in Dudley, with a pay set at £40 to £50K

Ask any boss there is a lot of work they have to do that is not written down in their contract. They get paid a lot and so have to work for it.

Jealousy is such an ugly trait.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

It is looking like people are picking to read only the parts that suit them.

I never said all teacher are scumbags.

A quick job search for head teacher job find me looking at head teacher and assistants head teacher job in Sandwell and in Dudley, with a pay set at £40 to £50K

Ask any boss there is a lot of work they have to do that is not written down in their contract. They get paid a lot and so have to work for it.

So at your job if they told you you had to work your holidays without arranging a different date for you to take them you would be happy?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Their place of work is the classroom during term time, it can be calculated that working a 40 hour week they work 3 months of the year.

I smell bacon coming from your direction.

Teaching isn't a job where you clock in and out so how would anyone know what hours are worked at home marking and planning. ?

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

It is looking like people are picking to read only the parts that suit them.

I never said all teacher are scumbags.

A quick job search for head teacher job find me looking at head teacher and assistants head teacher job in Sandwell and in Dudley, with a pay set at £40 to £50K

Ask any boss there is a lot of work they have to do that is not written down in their contract. They get paid a lot and so have to work for it.

£40 - £50k is about the salary of a mediocre photocopier salesman.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Unless I've missed something 1) he's a head teacher - not a classroom teacher and 2) he didn't take any kids out of school to go away.

No child lost any education.

Yes you have missed something.

I never said any kids were taken out of school on his holiday. Yes he is a head teacher that is part of the point.

Try telling a child that the head of your school can go on holiday in term time but they cannot? I think almost all kids would feel that was very unfair.

Okay so no child lost any education. What is your point then please?

It is also a Head Teachers and Governors job to employ a deputy Head and Teachers that are capable of running the school in their absence.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"So one rule for us and one rule for them. the scum bags.

You did call them all scumbags. This is from your opening post and you never said 'scumbag' meaning just this teacher, you sais scumbags.....plural. "

That is not the same as saying it, is it now.

It does seem that people are miss reading what I put and getting the wrong inference from it. As a lot of people are doing the same I cleared up what I was saying.

I did say later that what I said was not very clear at all, and it was wrong of me to imply that everyone in a profession is a scum bag.

Yes scumbags is a plural. The head teacher and the people that let him take the time off are scumbags. That is a far cry from calling all teachers scumbags.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It is looking like people are picking to read only the parts that suit them.

I never said all teacher are scumbags.

A quick job search for head teacher job find me looking at head teacher and assistants head teacher job in Sandwell and in Dudley, with a pay set at £40 to £50K

Ask any boss there is a lot of work they have to do that is not written down in their contract. They get paid a lot and so have to work for it.

And this man, who being a head teacher probably works pretty hard anyway, did some work beyond his contract, at a time when everyone else from the school was off...and the governors did him a favour and gave him a week as compensation from him going that extra mile (beyond his contract)... And that upsets you, angers you? Why? How sad.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"So one rule for us and one rule for them. the scum bags.

You did call them all scumbags. This is from your opening post and you never said 'scumbag' meaning just this teacher, you sais scumbags.....plural.

That is not the same as saying it, is it now.

It does seem that people are miss reading what I put and getting the wrong inference from it. As a lot of people are doing the same I cleared up what I was saying.

I did say later that what I said was not very clear at all, and it was wrong of me to imply that everyone in a profession is a scum bag.

Yes scumbags is a plural. The head teacher and the people that let him take the time off are scumbags. That is a far cry from calling all teachers scumbags.

Stop digging.

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

It is looking like people are picking to read only the parts that suit them.

I never said all teacher are scumbags.

A quick job search for head teacher job find me looking at head teacher and assistants head teacher job in Sandwell and in Dudley, with a pay set at £40 to £50K

Ask any boss there is a lot of work they have to do that is not written down in their contract. They get paid a lot and so have to work for it.

Is this another one of those "as long as they aren't on benefits or earning more than £26k pa they're ok" type posts?

You tarred all with the scumbags epithet in your first post.

Yes, as a "boss" I have worked silly hours in order to get things done but when you are employed and not your own boss you are afforded some protections. So, in the private sector you might get given time off or more money. In this situation the employee could not get back Christmas when the school was closed and the school did not pay him more. They chose to allow him time off.

Most paid jobs have the statutory holiday entitlement and that is paid evenly across the year. Others offer more. In most cases the stipulation is that you take the holiday at the convenience of the employer. In most cases you have some flexibility about that. Teachers don't. As part of their contractual entitlements they accept the pay given along with the stipulation that they have to take their holidays when the school/local authority tells them to take them.

I say once again, they could have paid him more for the time lost, which was a contractual entitlement but they have opted for time off in lieu.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

"So one rule for us and one rule for them. the scum bags.

You did call them all scumbags. This is from your opening post and you never said 'scumbag' meaning just this teacher, you sais scumbags.....plural.

That is not the same as saying it, is it now.

It does seem that people are miss reading what I put and getting the wrong inference from it. As a lot of people are doing the same I cleared up what I was saying.

I did say later that what I said was not very clear at all, and it was wrong of me to imply that everyone in a profession is a scum bag.

Yes scumbags is a plural. The head teacher and the people that let him take the time off are scumbags. That is a far cry from calling all teachers scumbags.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing there Kenny!!!

The way it reads is us and them. The public and teachers. It can't be a coincidence that everyone made that assumption. Perhaps you should clarify things before you realise the crowd is against your point and you are trying to save face.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I say once again, they could have paid him more for the time lost, which was a contractual entitlement but they have opted for time off in lieu.

A very pertinent point

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I work in a school not teaching but the teachers there put up with a lot from the pupils and they can't respond to insults etc like they could years ago. no school staff regardless of status can take holidays in term time

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"So one rule for us and one rule for them. the scum bags.

You did call them all scumbags. This is from your opening post and you never said 'scumbag' meaning just this teacher, you sais scumbags.....plural.

That is not the same as saying it, is it now.

It does seem that people are miss reading what I put and getting the wrong inference from it. As a lot of people are doing the same I cleared up what I was saying.

I did say later that what I said was not very clear at all, and it was wrong of me to imply that everyone in a profession is a scum bag.

Yes scumbags is a plural. The head teacher and the people that let him take the time off are scumbags. That is a far cry from calling all teachers scumbags.

Might I suggest that with so many of us misreading and getting the wrong inference there might just be an inference to get?

Communication is a two way process. Someone says/writes something. Someone else hears/reads that something. There is a lot of room for misunderstanding in that transaction. However, you have maintained a line throughout and by that process we glean meaning, intent and inference.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

Kenny......in your job if they told you you had to work your holidays without arranging a different date for you to take them you would be happy?

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By *Kgirl80Woman over a year ago

South Coast

If anyone knows a teacher rated 'good' or 'outstanding' by OFSTED, who only works 8.30-3.15, then you should strongly advise them to write a book of too tips for those teachers who don't seem to have their phenomenal skills... They'd make a fortune in copies sold.

The teachers I know work long hours in term time, part of their weekends and also in the government-prescribed holidays. This includes deputy headteachers and heads.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If anyone knows a teacher rated 'good' or 'outstanding' by OFSTED, who only works 8.30-3.15, then you should strongly advise them to write a book of too tips for those teachers who don't seem to have their phenomenal skills... They'd make a fortune in copies sold.

The teachers I know work long hours in term time, part of their weekends and also in the government-prescribed holidays. This includes deputy headteachers and heads. "

And their lunch hours

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Just wondering what your profession is Kenny ..... And how offensive you'd find a post which labeled all people of the same " scumbags"?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Yes I have kept to the same line all the time.

My second post which is the sixth post in this thread. I very clean say that "Not all teachers are scumbags". This was after one people said "Teachers are scumbags" This is in the 3rd post. I posted this to clean up the misunderstanding.

It is not hidden in a long post or half in the thread but at almost the top of it.

It is hard for me to see how I could be any clear than that.

Later is even said sorry for this misunderstanding and again stated my _iew.

It does seem that people are only reading what they want to read and ignoring parts that they do not agree with. The link I posted even says head teacher not teacher.

with ref to Rugby Does MFM I have on a number of times had to make calls to sorts problems out when I am on holiday and more than once arrange for someone to be at my home in order for work to pick up much need parts.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The teachers I know work long hours in term time, part of their weekends and also in the government-prescribed holidays. This includes deputy headteachers and heads. "

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

No one where I work starts work at 8.45 and clock off at 3.15 ....actually one does but she's not a teacher or a TA

Teachers are in some before 8.00am preparing ....I come in at 8 to help - its a huge job ..

Then there's after school clubs ...marking ...preparing next day ....planning....I could go on and on and on

Without a doubt its the hardest most rewarding job I've done

Oh and lunch hour ???? What's that !!!!!!!!!

I do it because the children are awesome ...the pay stinks ...the holidays - what holidays

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Oh sear,

The OP appears to have set his stall out from the very beginning, basing his partially-educated _iews on a single, old article from a newspaper with its own agenda and reason for publishing the article.

He appears to call this a debate but apart from accepting his error for labelling every teacher a scumbag, he has rigidly stuck to his original opinion despite the many reasoned and informed arguments to the contrary. Nor does it appear he has even attempted to _iew it from the other side.

He does show a lack of understanding of how the education system works and that the legislation is there to ensure the children attend school as required by law and that adequate measures would've been in place to ensure that education did not suffer in his absence.

OP - try and look at the situation with an open mind (if you can), take into consideration the FULL circumstances from the perspective of the school governors and the head teacher concerned, then put yourself in his place and see if that helps you any. Or swap the job for yours and see how you would react if you were made to work your holiday period with no alternative arrangements in place.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The teachers I know work long hours in term time, part of their weekends and also in the government-prescribed holidays. This includes deputy headteachers and heads. "

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

i've worked in some rough tough jobs ,working with kids teaching, scares the shit out of me ,they deserve every penny

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By *he devil wears pradaWoman over a year ago

gosport ish

"Unless I've missed something 1) he's a head teacher - not a classroom teacher and 2) he didn't take any kids out of school to go away.

No child lost any education."

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By *icolerobbieCouple over a year ago

walsall

It isn't the teachers who have made this rule..........

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

In a debate you do not have to change your point of _iew at all. Please tell me why you think you have to?

Again I never said that all teacher are scumbags. I quickly set the record straight to that point.

You talk about looking at the situation with an open mind and take into consideration the full circumstances yet you do not give me the same courtesy. You rigidly say that I said all teacher are scubags and what I actually did say has not other meaning. Talk about flogging a dead horse.

I did read the article with an open mind and then I formed my opinion. Nor do I have a lack of understanding of how the legislation works or why it is needed. The law say that you have to get the head permission first if you wish to take your kids out of school in term time. Until the resent change in the rule. Made by an unelected official penalty notice where only used after a Parenting or school attendance order was been issues and in preference to a prosecution. They are now used as the first port of call.

Instead of debating the issue may posters seam happy to keep bring up a single point in order to stop any real debate on the issue at hand.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"In a debate you do not have to change your point of _iew at all. Please tell me why you think you have to?

Again I never said that all teacher are scumbags. I quickly set the record straight to that point.

Instead of debating the issue may posters seam happy to keep bring up a single point in order to stop any real debate on the issue at hand.

The issue isn't your use of the word scumbag

The issue isn't whether or not the children and/or operation of the school suffered during the HT's absence

The issue isn't whether the HT worked beyond is contract meaning he missed a holiday he was entitled to

The issue isn't whether the governors should have compensated the HT by offering 2 weeks overtime pay instead of leave for a week

The issue is simple. You don't like that a worker was done a favour. You resent the humanity shown by the governors, who evidently recognised a) the HT's efforts and b) that the school will run fine even if he wasn't there for a week.

Perhaps these scumbags failed to live up to your lofty standards.

Perhaps they're a little less miserable than you because of it.

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By *xxwiganMan over a year ago

LEIGH

"In a debate you do not have to change your point of _iew at all. Please tell me why you think you have to?

Again I never said that all teacher are scumbags. I quickly set the record straight to that point.

Instead of debating the issue may posters seam happy to keep bring up a single point in order to stop any real debate on the issue at hand.

Are you not guilty of the same, bringing up the same point continually.

You used the plural, 'scumbags', a freudian slip?? You changed it to scumbag when you knew your arguement was flawed.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"In a debate you do not have to change your point of _iew at all. Please tell me why you think you have to?"

Good point...

Oh, but..

"Instead of debating the issue may posters seam happy to keep bring up a single point in order to stop any real debate on the issue at hand.

erm

You made a stupid remark. You based it on a stupid article.

Stop responding and the discussion will soon die a death. Then move on with your life.

Nothing will have changed.

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By *xxwiganMan over a year ago

LEIGH

The issue isn't your use of the word scumbag

The issue isn't whether or not the children and/or operation of the school suffered during the HT's absence

The issue isn't whether the HT worked beyond is contract meaning he missed a holiday he was entitled to

The issue isn't whether the governors should have compensated the HT by offering 2 weeks overtime pay instead of leave for a week

Perhaps these scumbags failed to live up to your lofty standards.

Perhaps they're a little less miserable than you because of it."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Sorry not going to lower myself to reading a daily mail article. Just thought I would mention that head teachers are mostly administrators so don't actually teach classes. If they are good administrators then the system will manage a week without them so where is the issue?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"In a debate you do not have to change your point of _iew at all. Please tell me why you think you have to?"

I didn't say you had to but when an ill-informed argument is countered by numerous well-informed arguments that are in opposition to it, it is customary in a debate to counter it with reasoned arguments not simply restate the original ill-informed argument.

"Again I never said that all teacher are scumbags. I quickly set the record straight to that point. You talk about looking at the situation with an open mind and take into consideration the full circumstances yet you do not give me the same courtesy. You rigidly say that I said all teacher are scubags and what I actually did say has not other meaning. Talk about flogging a dead horse."

And I acknowledged that you had corrected your error. I trust you gave the article a better and more thorough reading than you did my response.

"Instead of debating the issue may posters seam happy to keep bring up a single point in order to stop any real debate on the issue at hand."

And many have given you their opinions, some based on real and personal experience of the matter but you still haven't acknowledged any acceptance or understanding of it.

You've called it a debate but actually you started it as a pure, out and out attack on the headteacher, probably thinking many others would jump on the hysterical bandwagon.

You've dug your hole and reading the responses here I guess you've been buried in it too.

That will be my last on it.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Sorry not going to lower myself to reading a daily mail article. Just thought I would mention that head teachers are mostly administrators so don't actually teach classes. If they are good administrators then the system will manage a week without them so where is the issue?"

This is the same as the point I made. This is what a deputy Head is for.

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By *B9 QueenWoman over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

"Yes I have kept to the same line all the time.

It is not hidden in a long post or half in the thread but at almost the top of it.

It is hard for me to see how I could be any clear than that.

Later is even said sorry for this misunderstanding and again stated my _iew.

It does seem that people are only reading what they want to read and ignoring parts that they do not agree with. The link I posted even says head teacher not teacher.

You are very very very ill-informed. You have no conception of what it is to be a teacher in the 21st century. You are most likely harking back to your own experiences when you were a child and using a sensationalist report from a rabid right-wing rag.

Please continue - it is highly amusing.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Am I right in thinking all this vitriol has been stirred up by an article in that "upstanding and always fact driven" news sheet, The Daily Mail?

Hmmm really... Don't give the Mail the shelf or brain room please.. Teachers do a hard & largely great job and on the most are good people, one character out of all does not stand for the whole! Please!

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"In a debate you do not have to change your point of _iew at all. Please tell me why you think you have to?

Again I never said that all teacher are scumbags. I quickly set the record straight to that point. You talk about looking at the situation with an open mind and take into consideration the full circumstances yet you do not give me the same courtesy. You rigidly say that I said all teacher are scubags and what I actually did say has not other meaning. Talk about flogging a dead horse.

And I acknowledged that you had corrected your error. I trust you gave the article a better and more thorough reading than you did my response.

Instead of debating the issue may posters seam happy to keep bring up a single point in order to stop any real debate on the issue at hand.

And many have given you their opinions, some based on real and personal experience of the matter but you still haven't acknowledged any acceptance or understanding of it.

You've called it a debate but actually you started it as a pure, out and out attack on the headteacher, probably thinking many others would jump on the hysterical bandwagon.

You've dug your hole and reading the responses here I guess you've been buried in it too.

That will be my last on it.

Everything thing you accuse me of doing other post are doing the very same.

You also implied that a person has to change his opinion on a matter after reading many reasoned and informed arguments. You instantly discounted my informed arguments. Without giving any of your own reasons for doing so only saying I show lack of understanding of how the education system work. Where is you proof of this. Nor have you show any attempt to see thing from my point of _iew. I have give a number of answer to question stating my _iew and explaining it. You and a number of people seem to think that I have said a number of things I did not say or even implied. Then without giving any substance to the debate the stat you will no long take part in it and even have a problem call it a debate.

You also seem to think that every debate that some starts or take part in has to be Won by that person, when it is very clear that this is imposable. It is also very clear that the debate is not all one sided.

Not one person has seen fit to acknowledge that some parents at this school are unhappy with him taking the time off work.

Only one person has said anything on the bad example he is setting and out said well kids have to learn that life it not fair.

It is not a school place to help mould kids into adults. Teaching them people can enforce rules and seemingly not been bound by the same rules is not what a school should be teaching. Teaching is not just about facts, it is about understanding. How work things out on your own. How to debate and revaluate things. How to act in today's world and some of the principles they should hold themselves too.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

So did you get compensated in any way, ie days off in Lieu or paid extra?

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

So did you get compensated in any way, ie days off in Lieu or paid extra?"

Ah sorry I read your post wrong, I thought you meant you had worked on your holidays.

So the same question, would you work a week of your holidays and not expect a week in Lieu or payment for it?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

So did you get compensated in any way, ie days off in Lieu or paid extra?"

None at all, it is something I have to do.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

So did you get compensated in any way, ie days off in Lieu or paid extra?

None at all, it is something I have to do."

You seem to be evading the question altogether, so I will assume that you wouldn't work a full week of your holiday and not expect to be paid for it or given a week in Lieu

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

Don't put links into the forum that are not on the allowed list please

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

So did you get compensated in any way, ie days off in Lieu or paid extra?

None at all, it is something I have to do."

Something you have to do or something you choose to do?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

So did you get compensated in any way, ie days off in Lieu or paid extra?

Ah sorry I read your post wrong, I thought you meant you had worked on your holidays.

So the same question, would you work a week of your holidays and not expect a week in Lieu or payment for it?"

If the school had give him extra pay then that would of been fine.

As to your question it is not in my contract to work over my holidays. But if I had to yes I would be paid for doing so. Is it in the head contract to work in his holidays we will never know.

Spending two hour on the phone telling someone how to fix something is work. so yes i have work on holiday. No I did not yet paid for it.

Many boss and even MP have to come back from holidays if there is a need to do so. Most Teacher get much more than the statuary 28 days paid annual leave per year. I do understand that some are contracted on a school year basis i.e. they are deemed not to be employed for the six week summer holiday. so how I do not think a head teacher is on a school year only contract.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So did you get compensated in any way, ie days off in Lieu or paid extra?

Ah sorry I read your post wrong, I thought you meant you had worked on your holidays.

So the same question, would you work a week of your holidays and not expect a week in Lieu or payment for it?

If the school had give him extra pay then that would of been fine.

As to your question it is not in my contract to work over my holidays. But if I had to yes I would be paid for doing so. Is it in the head contract to work in his holidays we will never know.

Spending two hour on the phone telling someone how to fix something is work. so yes i have work on holiday. No I did not yet paid for it.

Kenny. Give it up.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"Don't put links into the forum that are not on the allowed list please

I see please can you give me the link to the allowed list then please.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Don't put links into the forum that are not on the allowed list please

I see please can you give me the link to the allowed list then please. "

It's in FAQs

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

In a separate study, new polling conducted for The Jubilee Centre for Character and Values at the University of Birmingham has found that the majority of parents agree that schools should fulfil a wider role: focusing on the development of character as well as traditional academic study.

The online poll of 1001 parents found that 84% of parents believe that it is a teacher’s role to encourage good morals and values in a student. Just 14% of parents disagree.

87% of those surveyed said that schools should focus on character development and academic study, rather than simply academic study alone. The majority (95%) felt it is possible to do so in a positive sense through lessons and dedicated projects or exercises at school.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

So did you get compensated in any way, ie days off in Lieu or paid extra?

Ah sorry I read your post wrong, I thought you meant you had worked on your holidays.

So the same question, would you work a week of your holidays and not expect a week in Lieu or payment for it?

If the school had give him extra pay then that would of been fine.

As to your question it is not in my contract to work over my holidays. But if I had to yes I would be paid for doing so.

I doubt if it is anyones contract to work in your holidays.

The fact you would expect some recompense if you did it but expect others not to get the same is double standards.

Just because the school didn't do what you would have liked them to do doesn't make it wrong.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Do you know anyone personally in the profession or is this whole lamentable attack based upon an article you read in the right wing media?

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"Don't put links into the forum that are not on the allowed list please

I see please can you give me the link to the allowed list then please. "

http://www.fabswingers.com/content/forum-rules

Check out the forum rules, it explains all.

You can find them just above the box you type in when you post a message.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"In a separate study, new polling conducted for The Jubilee Centre for Character and Values at the University of Birmingham has found that the majority of parents agree that schools should fulfil a wider role: focusing on the development of character as well as traditional academic study.

The online poll of 1001 parents found that 84% of parents believe that it is a teacher’s role to encourage good morals and values in a student. Just 14% of parents disagree.

Excellent use of copy and paste. Well done young Kenny

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

So the lesson they learnt from this episode is that by going the extra mile at work such as working over your Christmas holidays helping to move a school to a new premises you get rewarded by being allowed to take the time you spent doing that off in lieu of payment.

No good deed goes unrewarded is a pretty strong moral lesson. You are trying to make out that he just thought 'ah fuck it, I'm gonna fuck off for an extra week in the slopes.....I deserve it! Who cares that the parents get fined!'

As I have said numerous times on this thread I am sure that adequate cover was provided and that no children's education suffered as a result. I can't remember a to!me when I was at school where we were left to our own devices when teachers wetrent weren't. Pretty sure that hasn't changed much.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

So did you get compensated in any way, ie days off in Lieu or paid extra?

Ah sorry I read your post wrong, I thought you meant you had worked on your holidays.

So the same question, would you work a week of your holidays and not expect a week in Lieu or payment for it?

If the school had give him extra pay then that would of been fine.

As to your question it is not in my contract to work over my holidays. But if I had to yes I would be paid for doing so.

I doubt if it is anyones contract to work in your holidays.

The fact you would expect some recompense if you did it but expect others not to get the same is double standards.

Just because the school didn't do what you would have liked them to do doesn't make it wrong.

Please explain why you think it is double standards. I never said he should not expect any recompense. Yes I have said working in holidays time is part of his job, but not that he should not be paid cash for doing so.

Again putting words in my mouth.

And just as the school did what you liked them to does not make it right. Also parents at his own school thing it is wrong. I think they are best people to Judge him on this matter.

I have given my reasons and I support the _iew parents at his schools stated in the article.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

SOME parents thought it was wrong where as some agreed with it (including the parent governors that sanctioned it)

Come on kenny, report all thee facts please.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"SOME parents thought it was wrong where as some agreed with it (including the parent governors that sanctioned it)

Come on kenny, report all thee facts please. "

I have please read my post you can see that in a post i made before i did say SOME. It should go with out saying if you read the article. That some think is was wrong and some think it is okay namly the parent governors that sanxtioned it.

Let us see how long you flog this one.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

I doubt if it is anyones contract to work in your holidays.

The fact you would expect some recompense if you did it but expect others not to get the same is double standards.

Just because the school didn't do what you would have liked them to do doesn't make it wrong.

Again putting words in my mouth.

And just as the school did what you liked them to does not make it right. Also parents at his own school thing it is wrong. I think they are best people to Judge him on this matter.

I have given my reasons and I support the _iew parents at his schools stated in the article.

You or the parents can't choose how it was dealt with. You object to the school making a decision for their school. That decision was to let him have a holiday. You decided he was scum for doing that.

Now if you had worded your OP to " I think he is scum for going on hols instead of taking money" I might have thought you did actually think he needed some recompense for working his hols but your posts didn't suggest he did deserve anything at all as he had many holidays a year anyway.

Either way, I am off to bed.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

I doubt if it is anyones contract to work in your holidays.

The fact you would expect some recompense if you did it but expect others not to get the same is double standards.

Just because the school didn't do what you would have liked them to do doesn't make it wrong.

Again putting words in my mouth.

And just as the school did what you liked them to does not make it right. Also parents at his own school thing it is wrong. I think they are best people to Judge him on this matter.

I have given my reasons and I support the _iew parents at his schools stated in the article.

Either way, I am off to bed.

Again trying to put word into my mouth. You can say you should of said this, or you should of said that. You asked me a question my on _iew to clear a point up and then I gave it you. It seems you did not like the answer as it does not fit what you think I was saying. I could of made a post 4 or 5 pages long and give a full and clear point of _iew in my first post, not that anyone would of read a post that long. I bet there is a limit the size of any one post as well.

Also you missed the point that the parents elect the parent school governors. So in the end they do have a say on how it was dealt with.

Also I see you think it is fine to teach kids double standards I do not.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

Hehe you're funny Kenny.

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By *xxwiganMan over a year ago

LEIGH

hey Kenny, you dont seem happy at all the 'holidys teachers have.

Would you like it to be cut to 28 days? oh dear if that happened there would be less time for families to have holidays.

Kenny do you think teachers should be paid overtime for running after school activities?

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

Also you missed the point that the parents elect the parent school governors. So in the end they do have a say on how it was dealt with.

Also I see you think it is fine to teach kids double standards I do not.

I am easily confused on a Sunday morning until I have had more tea so I might sit this one out now

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Kenny...

You now agree he should be compensated for giving up his holiday due to the extenuating circumstances of a school moving sites...

You're only upset at the type of compensation...it seems.

Though previously you've ranted about how he gets paid enough, he should do some things for free because he gets paid enough.

Why should he? Why should anyone HAVE to do things for free, just because you would?

In the end the school governors (which include staff reps, local authority reps, community reps, parents et al) all collectively and democratically agreed that the HT's efforts DID deserve compensation...it could have been money, but they decided on time.

Just like pupils can be given time off due to extenuating circumstances, so was the HT.

There's no story nor a noteworthy thread here, just bitterness and envy masquerading as morals and integrity.

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

This thread has more legs than a spider.

Now the goalposts are that it is a moral issue of double standards and teaching children it is ok to have time off school.

I have to disagree. My experience of children, particularly the younger ones, is that they have a really strong sense of fairness. If someone has done something above and beyond they should be rewarded.

The primary schools I know do teach this. Each week the class that has gone above and beyond on attendance and behaviour gets an extra playtime. It is easy to transfer the understanding of that to why the head was given time off.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

P.S working through his holidays is not his job... He, just like any teacher, can choose to work through holidays, but it's his job.

In fact, during the Christmas holidays in particular, site services, technicians and any other support staff are given a holiday too which is beyond the 20 odd days they are due over the course of the year.

He came in and worked extra...he deserves something extra...he got something extra...Good for him.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Typo

***but it's NOT his job

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Their place of work is the classroom during term time, it can be calculated that working a 40 hour week they work 3 months of the year.

I know for a fact that some teacher work more than 48 hrs a week, with marking, planning work, so no they not telling porkies. It might be against the law but it does happen as some school force teachers into this by taking away they non contact time.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Afternoon all.

So many people have just not read full thread or just try to word in to my mouth without thinking to fit their own _iew of what I have said.. As Well as saying goalposts have moved when they have always been the same. I will ask you to read my second post for clarification on that. Despite saying a number of times.

Sorry but I do not think that a head teacher doing his job is extenuating circumstances. It is his job to run the school to see the school is fit for teaching in. Running a school is not just a term time job. Anyone can work that one out. A head teachers get about two times the average pay and a lot more holiday than the average worker. To cry I had to do it in my holiday is not on. That is part of job any boss will see that.

You say it is not his job too. So who job is it then too see the builders have access to the site, and that work is done properly. Who would need to be involved if the school burnt down or was flood over Christmas?

Can you please show where I said he should not be compensated at all.

Not all site services and technicians are given time off above their 28 days. Many have to work then as normal days. Or take them as part of their 28 days.

Yes I am unhappy as to the face that he took time off in term time the reason are in thread for the people than have read it.

I am finding this a fascinating display of mob mentality. After a very clear second post to clear up what I meant and about who. People are still flogging the same dead horse. Many refuse to answer my questions. Accuse me of the same one sided closed mind they have. Misrepresent the facts and downright lie. Few people are trying debating the matter at all.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

". People are still flogging the same dead horse."

I agree.

Maybe time to close now as it seems to have run it's course.

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