FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Benefits Street
Jump to: Newest in thread
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"I'm just about to watch it on Plus 1. I hope it's more than just poverty porn. " same... just been watching the 7.39 so looking forward to it | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"What's your thoughts on the programme that's just aired on tv? " I know right! I know! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"As someone from Brum I'm disgusted totally by it all. I know the street in question too and they haven't shown any of the decent residents that live there " To show the nice side wouldnt be in the governments interests. They want the division and hate this sort of programme causes | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"As someone from Brum I'm disgusted totally by it all. I know the street in question too and they haven't shown any of the decent residents that live there To show the nice side wouldnt be in the governments interests. They want the division and hate this sort of programme causes " That's so sad yet so true | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"[Removed by poster at 06/01/14 22:21:47]" There ya go....the governments job has been done . Not everyone on that street live like that. Its a huge street but channel 4 neglected to show those. Not all who live on benefits live like that, people like that are the minority. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"I knew this show was going to air ages and ages ago...I just rolled my eyes....it makes me cringe " makes two of us then lol | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Why is the guy just out of prison showing how he is planning to shoplift? I may have to turn off. " I just did. Its not just the Government that like to show the seedy side of poverty - the media snaps it up too. And showing a guy just out of jail for shoplifting discussing what he's just nicked is just Channel 4 showing how 'edgy' they are. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"As someone from Brum I'm disgusted totally by it all. I know the street in question too and they haven't shown any of the decent residents that live there To show the nice side wouldnt be in the governments interests. They want the division and hate this sort of programme causes " maybe its because the decent people have to much pride than to strut themselves on such a show for a few quid, you cant make people go on the show | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Why is the guy just out of prison showing how he is planning to shoplift? I may have to turn off. I just did. Its not just the Government that like to show the seedy side of poverty - the media snaps it up too. And showing a guy just out of jail for shoplifting discussing what he's just nicked is just Channel 4 showing how 'edgy' they are. " It really defeats the genuine cases of hardship when the storyline is shaped in this way. Welfare Spending for 2011/12 was: 46% state pension 14% housing benefit 8% disability living allowance 5% pension credit 5% income support 4% incapacity benefit 3% attendance allowance 3% council tax benefits 3% jobseeker's allowance 2% winter fuel payments 2% employment support allowance 1% carer's allowance 1% statutory maternity pay and 3% on other discretionary payments. This sort of programme does nothing to reflect the experience of the majority. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"As someone from Brum I'm disgusted totally by it all. I know the street in question too and they haven't shown any of the decent residents that live there To show the nice side wouldnt be in the governments interests. They want the division and hate this sort of programme causes " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"One Reason i havnt turned my Tv on for six months or Buy Newspapers" There's no reason to watch NO telly just cos some (OK, quite a lot) of it's shite. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"As someone from Brum I'm disgusted totally by it all. I know the street in question too and they haven't shown any of the decent residents that live there " Well of course not! Where's the political mileage in that? Showing people working their bollocks off, living decent lives yet struggling in the face of adversity caused by government policies would be detrimental. Show those living on the margins on benefits and bingo! Instant boogie man. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Surprised at how defensive people are, and confused. There are plenty of programmes on that represent other aspects of life - Secret Millionaire, Come Dine, Four in a Bed, Apprentice... loads! " You miss the point. Where are the programmes showing the majority of benefit claimants; the honest ones, doing their best and struggling to survive? Benefit claimants always focus on the minority who take the mick and abuse the system. It's propaganda and aimed at promoting hate and dividing society. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"As per usual, channel 4 spreading the governments propaganda message that all who claim benefits are the dregs of society . " i hadnt thought of it like that but now you mention it and you think about it it does reinforce prejuidices. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Why is the guy just out of prison showing how he is planning to shoplift? I may have to turn off. I just did. Its not just the Government that like to show the seedy side of poverty - the media snaps it up too. And showing a guy just out of jail for shoplifting discussing what he's just nicked is just Channel 4 showing how 'edgy' they are. It really defeats the genuine cases of hardship when the storyline is shaped in this way. Welfare Spending for 2011/12 was: 46% state pension 14% housing benefit 8% disability living allowance 5% pension credit 5% income support 4% incapacity benefit 3% attendance allowance 3% council tax benefits 3% jobseeker's allowance 2% winter fuel payments 2% employment support allowance 1% carer's allowance 1% statutory maternity pay and 3% on other discretionary payments. This sort of programme does nothing to reflect the experience of the majority. " well put i like your statistics | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Surprised at how defensive people are, and confused. There are plenty of programmes on that represent other aspects of life - Secret Millionaire, Come Dine, Four in a Bed, Apprentice... loads! You miss the point. Where are the programmes showing the majority of benefit claimants; the honest ones, doing their best and struggling to survive? Benefit claimants always focus on the minority who take the mick and abuse the system. It's propaganda and aimed at promoting hate and dividing society." I reckon if you delve a little, funding for this programme has come from high up | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"As per usual, channel 4 spreading the governments propaganda message that all who claim benefits are the dregs of society . " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"As per usual, channel 4 spreading the governments propaganda message that all who claim benefits are the dregs of society . i hadnt thought of it like that but now you mention it and you think about it it does reinforce prejuidices." Surely the BBC will do a programme, for balance, that shows feckless ponces of society in a good light? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Surprised at how defensive people are, and confused. There are plenty of programmes on that represent other aspects of life - Secret Millionaire, Come Dine, Four in a Bed, Apprentice... loads! You miss the point. Where are the programmes showing the majority of benefit claimants; the honest ones, doing their best and struggling to survive? Benefit claimants always focus on the minority who take the mick and abuse the system. It's propaganda and aimed at promoting hate and dividing society." Bollocks. It's entertainment - and seemingly working. You can't complain when The Beast squeezes out shit if you keep feeding it. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"As per usual, channel 4 spreading the governments propaganda message that all who claim benefits are the dregs of society . " Agreed. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"I understand the tenants have put in a complaint regarding the show saying ch4 had misled them into believing it was about community spirit...i can somewhat believe that they were fed a bag of bollocks by Ch4 " I didn't watch so can't comment on the programme specifically but other shows suggest there's nothing some folk won't do to get on the telly. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"As someone from Brum I'm disgusted totally by it all. I know the street in question too and they haven't shown any of the decent residents that live there To show the nice side wouldnt be in the governments interests. They want the division and hate this sort of programme causes " There's also a good chance the 'decent' folk didn't want to be associated with the area...and maybe refused to comment? Seems like a kinda normal street to me! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Round up the cheats and shit, move the decent folk out and bomb shit out of the place!" It was reported today that "people" ...have suggested that "those shown" last night need to be killed.....really !!! Why not go the whole hog and euthanise anyone on benefits, be it the elderly,disabled etc......one step away from hitlers plan ....great | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Round up the cheats and shit, move the decent folk out and bomb shit out of the place! It was reported today that "people" ...have suggested that "those shown" last night need to be killed.....really !!! Why not go the whole hog and euthanise anyone on benefits, be it the elderly,disabled etc......one step away from hitlers plan ....great " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Round up the cheats and shit, move the decent folk out and bomb shit out of the place! It was reported today that "people" ...have suggested that "those shown" last night need to be killed.....really !!! Why not go the whole hog and euthanise anyone on benefits, be it the elderly,disabled etc......one step away from hitlers plan ....great " Don't be giving IDS ideas (not that he needs them). | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Round up the cheats and shit, move the decent folk out and bomb shit out of the place! It was reported today that "people" ...have suggested that "those shown" last night need to be killed.....really !!! Why not go the whole hog and euthanise anyone on benefits, be it the elderly,disabled etc......one step away from hitlers plan ....great " Well I doubt it as surely they would have been actors or something? Or was it undercover work? It is disgusting that people do that and they should be removed from society. Maybe get them to work in a prison to earn their keep or clean crap off the streets. That's the thing with benefits its a generalised thing for several reasons why people don't work. What they should do is list the reasons. For example physically/mentally disabled, they retired, temporally Ill, etc. Then work it out. People with certain illnesses can never work. Some can do certain jobs. So maybe help them find that job constantly and give them enough benefits to live off and people who go to sign on regularly who are fit, healthy and aren't looking for work. Crack down on them. Instead they just think. "Lets reduce £50 million down to £10 million spent on benefits and they just reduce everyone by a certain percentage. Despite people having different needs or people being genuine. I live in a town that's full of it and people say "its everywhere, not just here", but what they don't understand is. Its about the same amount of people here doing it as there is in other cities. Yet we are a small town. So its more noticeable. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"The Government did'nt film it , why are you blaming them for the so called biased towards the people shown on the programme ?" The government will gladly fund programmes like this everytime. They want to divide and conquer . Even news stations...bbc. itv etc are not allowed to report protests about the bedroom tax etc. Its going on..........all over the country but do you see it when you watch the evening news ? no you dont. The tories have always had the "landlord and serf" mentality and always will. I didnt like thatcher but i doubt even she would have done what osborne or ian dipshit smith have done | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"I think those bashing people on benefits....should remember it may happen to you...I've known people earn £100,000 loose everything and end up on the streets...We are not all immune from falling on hard times. " Very true And people forget that too easily | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"The Government did'nt film it , why are you blaming them for the so called biased towards the people shown on the programme ? The government will gladly fund programmes like this everytime. They want to divide and conquer . Even news stations...bbc. itv etc are not allowed to report protests about the bedroom tax etc. Its going on..........all over the country but do you see it when you watch the evening news ? no you dont. The tories have always had the "landlord and serf" mentality and always will. I didnt like thatcher but i doubt even she would have done what osborne or ian dipshit smith have done " She started it all by selling off the social housing stock. I have no doubt she'd have lost no sleep over doing the same. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Round up the cheats and shit, move the decent folk out and bomb shit out of the place! It was reported today that "people" ...have suggested that "those shown" last night need to be killed.....really !!! Why not go the whole hog and euthanise anyone on benefits, be it the elderly,disabled etc......one step away from hitlers plan ....great " No just the scum | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"I think those bashing people on benefits....should remember it may happen to you...I've known people earn £100,000 loose everything and end up on the streets...We are not all immune from falling on hard times. " so very true | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"I haven't seen the program. But the dregs of society need to be exposed. I just hope they watch it and feel ashamed. But I fear they won't. Some people can't be changed. Send them to poland in exchange for the hard working people who have come from there. That might be the shake up they need" yeh right u may find alot of british people have given up on their country because of this attitude foriegn workers r better, so not the cas | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"What's your thoughts on the programme that's just aired on tv? " Voyeurism at its worst! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"What's your thoughts on the programme that's just aired on tv? Voyeurism at its worst! " As I said earlier, I didn't see the programme but I'm guessing nobody was forced to participate or perform in a way they didn't want to. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"What's your thoughts on the programme that's just aired on tv? Voyeurism at its worst! As I said earlier, I didn't see the programme but I'm guessing nobody was forced to participate or perform in a way they didn't want to. " I have not and will not watch it either. I do hope that those who participated got their money's worth! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"watching it now, what an awefull program" wait till nxt weeks, welcome to england | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"I have not and will not watch it either. I do hope that those who participated got their money's worth!" I think that's kind of the issue.. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Don't hate the poor and disenfranchised Hate the people who keep them there !" there is only one person to blame if your poor. Yourself. Its really not that hard to make money honestly in this world. I've been poor but it was my fault. Its time people stopped expecting others to sort their problems out for them. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Don't hate the poor and disenfranchised Hate the people who keep them there !there is only one person to blame if your poor. Yourself. Its really not that hard to make money honestly in this world. I've been poor but it was my fault. Its time people stopped expecting others to sort their problems out for them. " Oh i do apologise for being presently disabled....i forgot it was my fault | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Don't hate the poor and disenfranchised Hate the people who keep them there !there is only one person to blame if your poor. Yourself. Its really not that hard to make money honestly in this world. I've been poor but it was my fault. Its time people stopped expecting others to sort their problems out for them. " That's your opinion, and of course valid from your point of _iew. but in reality, education, and nurturing plays a part in poverty. not everyone has your logical approach to things, or the opportunities you have made for yourself. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Don't hate the poor and disenfranchised Hate the people who keep them there !there is only one person to blame if your poor. Yourself. Its really not that hard to make money honestly in this world. I've been poor but it was my fault. Its time people stopped expecting others to sort their problems out for them. Oh i do apologise for being presently disabled....i forgot it was my fault " my father is very disabled in fact quadriplegic he still worked tho | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Don't hate the poor and disenfranchised Hate the people who keep them there !there is only one person to blame if your poor. Yourself. Its really not that hard to make money honestly in this world. I've been poor but it was my fault. Its time people stopped expecting others to sort their problems out for them. That's your opinion, and of course valid from your point of _iew. but in reality, education, and nurturing plays a part in poverty. not everyone has your logical approach to things, or the opportunities you have made for yourself." very true, people need the get up and go to make themselves a better life, i dont know the answers but our benifit culture dosent help | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"As someone from Brum I'm disgusted totally by it all. I know the street in question too and they haven't shown any of the decent residents that live there To show the nice side wouldnt be in the governments interests. They want the division and hate this sort of programme causes " Did the Government make this programme or fund it ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Did the Government make this programme or fund it ?" You can blame anything on the Government. Saves having to take responsibility yourself. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"That programme was hilarious, but for all the wrong reasons! But I did have to laugh at the lady with £300 rent areas who is unemployed but managed to have an I phone, have cigarettes, a massive plasma screen on the wall and furniture that was pretty decent! I'm not sure what they are going to fill the remaining four episodes with though... Hopefully not more of that crap!" | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Well a positive came out of it....50p man was offered a job as a result of the show " Ohhhhhhh what as ? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Well a positive came out of it....50p man was offered a job as a result of the show " . Oh bless him! Least he was doing somthing to try and help and pay his own bills unlike most of them were. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"That programme was hilarious, but for all the wrong reasons! But I did have to laugh at the lady with £300 rent areas who is unemployed but managed to have an I phone, have cigarettes, a massive plasma screen on the wall and furniture that was pretty decent! I'm not sure what they are going to fill the remaining four episodes with though... Hopefully not more of that crap!" I didn't see it, but maybe she wasn't always unemployed? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Well a positive came out of it....50p man was offered a job as a result of the show Ohhhhhhh what as ?" not sure... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"That programme was hilarious, but for all the wrong reasons! But I did have to laugh at the lady with £300 rent areas who is unemployed but managed to have an I phone, have cigarettes, a massive plasma screen on the wall and furniture that was pretty decent! I'm not sure what they are going to fill the remaining four episodes with though... Hopefully not more of that crap! I didn't see it, but maybe she wasn't always unemployed? " That could well be the case she could have fallen on hard times through no fault of her own .I always think that people in glass houses should be careful as one day circumstances may well change for them and they may well be the person with large house tv's pc's etc etc but no income. x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Well a positive came out of it....50p man was offered a job as a result of the show Ohhhhhhh what as ? not sure..." the one person on the show prepaired to go out and try to earn some money, not just sitting at home moaning, good luck to him, its a shame more on the show dont have his get up and go | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Round up the cheats and shit, move the decent folk out and bomb shit out of the place! It was reported today that "people" ...have suggested that "those shown" last night need to be killed.....really !!! Why not go the whole hog and euthanise anyone on benefits, be it the elderly,disabled etc......one step away from hitlers plan ....great " God that's` me done for Im on benefits. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"As someone from Brum I'm disgusted totally by it all. I know the street in question too and they haven't shown any of the decent residents that live there To show the nice side wouldnt be in the governments interests. They want the division and hate this sort of programme causes Did the Government make this programme or fund it ?" Only in so far as the public subsidy for Ch4 is concerned. The director and production company pitched a popular idea and as Ch4 has been dealing in poverty porn for the last year they would have snapped it up. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Sadly, far too many people are now spoon-fed their world _iew through the Television - an opiate for the masses which is subject to the editorialising of the few. 'Moral outrage and opinion from the comfort of the living room' sums up the 'vox populi' in this day and age. Defining a _iew of the world is as easy as hitting 'Share' on Facebook. Objective journalism is almost dead in this country. " Even when we see good journalism, particularly on television, the trailer is presented in a sensational way. They hype about the Nick Robinson programme on immigration would make you think it would be slamming all immigration and it didn't do that at all. Even the way it featured on the BBC News made it look like it would be concluding all immigration bad. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"As someone from Brum I'm disgusted totally by it all. I know the street in question too and they haven't shown any of the decent residents that live there To show the nice side wouldnt be in the governments interests. They want the division and hate this sort of programme causes Did the Government make this programme or fund it ? Only in so far as the public subsidy for Ch4 is concerned. The director and production company pitched a popular idea and as Ch4 has been dealing in poverty porn for the last year they would have snapped it up. " We were ask to shoot the Dogging prog Channel 4 done last year as was a few more producers, as they edit the footage into mindless crap we all said a firm no. They did find some joker who produced a 60 min prog looking more like "The Blair Witch Project" rather than a film on UK dogging lol! Never do a TV show, Newspaper artical or Magazine story as they will twist it to their own means. A lot of the footage you will see in this prog will be done in between the main shoots... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Don't hate the poor and disenfranchised Hate the people who keep them there !there is only one person to blame if your poor. Yourself. Its really not that hard to make money honestly in this world. I've been poor but it was my fault. Its time people stopped expecting others to sort their problems out for them. " Spoken like a true Tory | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Don't hate the poor and disenfranchised Hate the people who keep them there !there is only one person to blame if your poor. Yourself. Its really not that hard to make money honestly in this world. I've been poor but it was my fault. Its time people stopped expecting others to sort their problems out for them. Spoken like a true Tory " no spoken by someone with self respect | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Have to admit i spent most of it with my mouth open , can't believe that's how they live, editing is always going to put any tv show in a certain light, gotta say i thought the 50p man was very kind hearted !" Yesssss. 50p man is a legend. He was offered a full time job. Legend. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Have to admit i spent most of it with my mouth open , can't believe that's how they live, editing is always going to put any tv show in a certain light, gotta say i thought the 50p man was very kind hearted ! Yesssss. 50p man is a legend. He was offered a full time job. Legend. " Really, oh that's good, what job has he been offered ? It's good to see that even in the mess he was in he got off his ass and went and got his own thing ! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Well a positive came out of it....50p man was offered a job as a result of the show " Wasn't he claiming job seekers though and also running a business. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Im on benefits dont want to be at all looking for a job but it hard to find up here yeah its hard very hard to live sometimes but we are really trying to find job i dont know why that programme showed people on benefits live like that we are doing our best we have clean house and dont live like tramps or drink or drugs our kids get what they need even if means we go without" good for you and good luck dont let the judgemental twats bring you down | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Don't hate the poor and disenfranchised Hate the people who keep them there !there is only one person to blame if your poor. Yourself. Its really not that hard to make money honestly in this world. I've been poor but it was my fault. Its time people stopped expecting others to sort their problems out for them. That's your opinion, and of course valid from your point of _iew. but in reality, education, and nurturing plays a part in poverty. not everyone has your logical approach to things, or the opportunities you have made for yourself." | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Well a positive came out of it....50p man was offered a job as a result of the show Wasn't he claiming job seekers though and also running a business. " He was on JSA and it was stopped as they felt that he was not doing enough to look for work..there are reports he has been offered a few jobs. Good on him | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"I was brought up not far from there and can say with conviction that is rxactly how life is all of of the inner coties of Britain today an underclass of society that does not register with middle England under the radar and forced to earn of Robbin and dealing because they have poorly educated and generally rejected and ignored in this I'm alright jack society we live most people don't even know this level of society exists life is very hard in the ghettos Loved it! Jay xxxx " I was brought up in the "ghetto" and far from poorly educated and never dealt drugs...I think it's a very sweeping statement you are making there...that everyone from inner cities are poorly educated criminals. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"I was brought up not far from there and can say with conviction that is rxactly how life is all of of the inner coties of Britain today an underclass of society that does not register with middle England under the radar and forced to earn of Robbin and dealing because they have poorly educated and generally rejected and ignored in this I'm alright jack society we live most people don't even know this level of society exists life is very hard in the ghettos Loved it! Jay xxxx I was brought up in the "ghetto" and far from poorly educated and never dealt drugs...I think it's a very sweeping statement you are making there...that everyone from inner cities are poorly educated criminals. " Life is what you make it....some strive to succeed some don't... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Well a positive came out of it....50p man was offered a job as a result of the show Wasn't he claiming job seekers though and also running a business. He was on JSA and it was stopped as they felt that he was not doing enough to look for work..there are reports he has been offered a few jobs. Good on him " We'll it should have been stopped as he was working. He should have been registered as self employed and if able to get a top up from other benefits then he should of done. He was working at the end of the day. I bet any money he earnt wasn't declared either. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Well a positive came out of it....50p man was offered a job as a result of the show Wasn't he claiming job seekers though and also running a business. " A business?? I bet he barely made enough money to cover his costs | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"I was brought up not far from there and can say with conviction that is rxactly how life is all of of the inner coties of Britain today an underclass of society that does not register with middle England under the radar and forced to earn of Robbin and dealing because they have poorly educated and generally rejected and ignored in this I'm alright jack society we live most people don't even know this level of society exists life is very hard in the ghettos Loved it! Jay xxxx " cool. they are as far from middle england as the bankers bonus's and the "city".. Both are on different planets to the rest of the uk.Sadly one is on palnet skint and the other on planet greed and me me me | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Well a positive came out of it....50p man was offered a job as a result of the show Wasn't he claiming job seekers though and also running a business. He was on JSA and it was stopped as they felt that he was not doing enough to look for work..there are reports he has been offered a few jobs. Good on him We'll it should have been stopped as he was working. He should have been registered as self employed and if able to get a top up from other benefits then he should of done. He was working at the end of the day. I bet any money he earnt wasn't declared either. " I don't know the ins and outs of his job seekers claim what he did do and what he didn't do...however now he won't have to rely on JSA no longer... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Well a positive came out of it....50p man was offered a job as a result of the show Wasn't he claiming job seekers though and also running a business. A business?? I bet he barely made enough money to cover his costs " He probably only earned a couple of quid at the most... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Well a positive came out of it....50p man was offered a job as a result of the show Wasn't he claiming job seekers though and also running a business. A business?? I bet he barely made enough money to cover his costs " Yes a business. Regardless of wether me was making £1 a week or £10k a week he was still running a business and working. There is plenty of business out there that are making a loss or making very little. So does that mean they should be entitled to claim jsa. Of course they shouldn't. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"You can work and clIm benifits uf your earning dont meet the living standard jay xxx " Not job seekers though. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Have to admit i spent most of it with my mouth open , can't believe that's how they live, editing is always going to put any tv show in a certain light, gotta say i thought the 50p man was very kind hearted ! Yesssss. 50p man is a legend. He was offered a full time job. Legend. Really, oh that's good, what job has he been offered ? It's good to see that even in the mess he was in he got off his ass and went and got his own thing !" He was offered a job s a driver delivering food supplies. He's well over the moon. 3 offers came in altogether. He actually had a choice of careers. So happy for him | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Have to admit i spent most of it with my mouth open , can't believe that's how they live, editing is always going to put any tv show in a certain light, gotta say i thought the 50p man was very kind hearted ! Yesssss. 50p man is a legend. He was offered a full time job. Legend. Really, oh that's good, what job has he been offered ? It's good to see that even in the mess he was in he got off his ass and went and got his own thing ! He was offered a job s a driver delivering food supplies. He's well over the moon. 3 offers came in altogether. He actually had a choice of careers. So happy for him " Nice one | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Im on benefits dont want to be at all looking for a job but it hard to find up here yeah its hard very hard to live sometimes but we are really trying to find job i dont know why that programme showed people on benefits live like that we are doing our best we have clean house and dont live like tramps or drink or drugs our kids get what they need even if means we go withoutgood for you and good luck dont let the judgemental twats bring you down " | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"I was brought up not far from there and can say with conviction that is rxactly how life is all of of the inner coties of Britain today an underclass of society that does not register with middle England under the radar and forced to earn of Robbin and dealing because they have poorly educated and generally rejected and ignored in this I'm alright jack society we live most people don't even know this level of society exists life is very hard in the ghettos Loved it! Jay xxxx I was brought up in the "ghetto" and far from poorly educated and never dealt drugs...I think it's a very sweeping statement you are making there...that everyone from inner cities are poorly educated criminals. Life is what you make it....some strive to succeed some don't..." That's right i was brought up in West Ham where it was high crime like Salford, 3 of my ex mates are serving life for serious crimes & it was so easy to go down the same path but i got out & changed my life around. John | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"I was brought up not far from there and can say with conviction that is rxactly how life is all of of the inner coties of Britain today an underclass of society that does not register with middle England under the radar and forced to earn of Robbin and dealing because they have poorly educated and generally rejected and ignored in this I'm alright jack society we live most people don't even know this level of society exists life is very hard in the ghettos Loved it! Jay xxxx I was brought up in the "ghetto" and far from poorly educated and never dealt drugs...I think it's a very sweeping statement you are making there...that everyone from inner cities are poorly educated criminals. Life is what you make it....some strive to succeed some don't... That's right i was brought up in West Ham where it was high crime like Salford, 3 of my ex mates are serving life for serious crimes & it was so easy to go down the same path but i got out & changed my life around. John " well done you | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Surprised Where are the programmes showing the majority of benefit claimants; the honest ones, doing their best and struggling to survive? Benefit claimants always focus on the minority who take the mick and abuse the system. It's propaganda and aimed at promoting hate and dividing society." Well said! it's propoganda that nfortunatly seems to be working.. i just hope there's a follow up to address the imbalance | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"I haven't seen the program. But the dregs of society need to be exposed. I just hope they watch it and feel ashamed. But I fear they won't. Some people can't be changed. Send them to poland in exchange for the hard working people who have come from there. That might be the shake up they need" there's hard working brits who cant get a job. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"I watched the full programme last night and I can't understand people's problem. These people, and others like them, really are out there. Is it shock that's the case, or just that it's been revealed to the Channel 4 audience?" In the end we all know there's people abusingthe system like this. And that the majority of those who are on benefits have genuine and legitimate reasons. In the end its down to what will pull in the _iewing figures. People are more interested in what the minority abusing the system than those who aren't. And as long as people watch these things the more they'll make em. I can't see that it has anything to do with politics. It's all about the _iewing figures. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"I watched the full programme last night and I can't understand people's problem. These people, and others like them, really are out there. Is it shock that's the case, or just that it's been revealed to the Channel 4 audience?" I think the shock is that its this minority that are portrayed as the majority on benefits leading to all being tarred with the same brush. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"The 50p man was selling stuff along with claiming...hence his benefits were stopped. Im waiting for those who will now string him up for doing both. " And he was giving gear for free when he felt sorry for others harder off. But yea lets take what dignity he had away to satisfy the daily mail baying for his 72 quid a week back. Poor bloke. Let tthe toffs keep their heads in the trough but damn ordinary people like him | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"I watched the full programme last night and I can't understand people's problem. These people, and others like them, really are out there. Is it shock that's the case, or just that it's been revealed to the Channel 4 audience? I think the shock is that its this minority that are portrayed as the majority on benefits leading to all being tarred with the same brush. " I don't see that they were portrayed as anything other than themselves. The rest is down to peoples own interpretation. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"The 50p man was selling stuff along with claiming...hence his benefits were stopped. Im waiting for those who will now string him up for doing both. And he was giving gear for free when he felt sorry for others harder off. But yea lets take what dignity he had away to satisfy the daily mail baying for his 72 quid a week back. Poor bloke. Let tthe toffs keep their heads in the trough but damn ordinary people like him " He was comiting benefit fraud at the end of the day so he should have his benefits stopped and looked in to and any money that has been over paid he should have to pay back. Funny how because he has done one nice kind act which has been shown on tv that people seem to think ifs fine to commit benefit fraud. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"I watched it last night. I found it similar to Skint they aired last year. Now I grew up in Scunthorpe, where Skint was filmed. I dragged myself out of the gutter, and made something of myself. Not a great something to some, but I did it by myself, because I wanted to. A lot of people slagged off those on Skint, mainly out of fear, I think. I just sat there, and thought 'there but for the grace of God'. Statistics show that the majority of us are 3 months away from being homeless. A fact I never forget, and never look down on those doing what they have to to survive. " You are so right with what you say because a good friend of ours had everything a good job a home in the country & a lovely Jag, he lost his job & then lost his whole life & ended up sofa surfing before getting a bedsit. He has a job now but its a fraction of what he used to earn so he is still in his bedsit worrying about how to pay the gas & electric, no job is safe these days... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"The 50p man was selling stuff along with claiming...hence his benefits were stopped. Im waiting for those who will now string him up for doing both. And he was giving gear for free when he felt sorry for others harder off. But yea lets take what dignity he had away to satisfy the daily mail baying for his 72 quid a week back. Poor bloke. Let tthe toffs keep their heads in the trough but damn ordinary people like him He was comiting benefit fraud at the end of the day so he should have his benefits stopped and looked in to and any money that has been over paid he should have to pay back. Funny how because he has done one nice kind act which has been shown on tv that people seem to think ifs fine to commit benefit fraud. " Like any animals we do what we do to survive, we might not like it but unless we are where they are we can't knock them. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"The 50p man was selling stuff along with claiming...hence his benefits were stopped. Im waiting for those who will now string him up for doing both. And he was giving gear for free when he felt sorry for others harder off. But yea lets take what dignity he had away to satisfy the daily mail baying for his 72 quid a week back. Poor bloke. Let tthe toffs keep their heads in the trough but damn ordinary people like him He was comiting benefit fraud at the end of the day so he should have his benefits stopped and looked in to and any money that has been over paid he should have to pay back. Funny how because he has done one nice kind act which has been shown on tv that people seem to think ifs fine to commit benefit fraud. " Every day many thousands of people commit fraud in business, from the managing directors of the biggest companies, to starts of stage and screen, just take a look at any company that has its accounts on line, and you will see tax avoidance, tax evasion and scams, anything from people being given new cars, houses, holidays, mobile phones, sponsorship of racing cars, race horses, football teams. I know that crime is crime, weather it be someone taking a biro from work, using the work phone for a personal call, using work paper or stamps, to a billion pound fraud. But to fall into the trap of focusing on one guy who breaks jars of coffee and pkts of sugar into 50p affordable "luxuries for people with very little money, seems pointless and you have been pulled into the trap the programme makers were aiming for. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"The 50p man was selling stuff along with claiming...hence his benefits were stopped. Im waiting for those who will now string him up for doing both. And he was giving gear for free when he felt sorry for others harder off. But yea lets take what dignity he had away to satisfy the daily mail baying for his 72 quid a week back. Poor bloke. Let tthe toffs keep their heads in the trough but damn ordinary people like him He was comiting benefit fraud at the end of the day so he should have his benefits stopped and looked in to and any money that has been over paid he should have to pay back. Funny how because he has done one nice kind act which has been shown on tv that people seem to think ifs fine to commit benefit fraud. Every day many thousands of people commit fraud in business, from the managing directors of the biggest companies, to starts of stage and screen, just take a look at any company that has its accounts on line, and you will see tax avoidance, tax evasion and scams, anything from people being given new cars, houses, holidays, mobile phones, sponsorship of racing cars, race horses, football teams. I know that crime is crime, weather it be someone taking a biro from work, using the work phone for a personal call, using work paper or stamps, to a billion pound fraud. But to fall into the trap of focusing on one guy who breaks jars of coffee and pkts of sugar into 50p affordable "luxuries for people with very little money, seems pointless and you have been pulled into the trap the programme makers were aiming for." | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"The BBC did the same in my town a couple of years ago, asked permission to make a documentary about the 'warmth and community spirit' in the area...yea right! They focused on some of the 'characters' and made out the whole place was like this. The damage done to house prices and local investment was a disgrace but hey ....long as the BBC get their figures huh. " haha the scheme. I pumped a wee burd off that 2 year back up lane next to pavillion lol she was in walkabout on a do and to be honest she was pretty tidy lol ill no mention her cos shes got a bf but different guy fae on the show. Just as wee though haha theres a hint. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"The BBC did the same in my town a couple of years ago, asked permission to make a documentary about the 'warmth and community spirit' in the area...yea right! They focused on some of the 'characters' and made out the whole place was like this. The damage done to house prices and local investment was a disgrace but hey ....long as the BBC get their figures huh. haha the scheme. I pumped a wee burd off that 2 year back up lane next to pavillion lol she was in walkabout on a do and to be honest she was pretty tidy lol ill no mention her cos shes got a bf but different guy fae on the show. Just as wee though haha theres a hint." Bent over a wheelie bin? It was on YouTube. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"I like the community spirit on the street as it is lacking in most areas, but I do get the hint that it could be editted Heavily." I don't think there is community spirit. They like to pretend to themselves there is but believe me, they would screw each other over in a heartbeat. I lived in a place like that. And any community spirit is extremely clicky. X | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"As someone from Brum I'm disgusted totally by it all. I know the street in question too and they haven't shown any of the decent residents that live there " But decent people don't make good _iewing figures! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"The 50p man was selling stuff along with claiming...hence his benefits were stopped. Im waiting for those who will now string him up for doing both. And he was giving gear for free when he felt sorry for others harder off. But yea lets take what dignity he had away to satisfy the daily mail baying for his 72 quid a week back. Poor bloke. Let tthe toffs keep their heads in the trough but damn ordinary people like him He was comiting benefit fraud at the end of the day so he should have his benefits stopped and looked in to and any money that has been over paid he should have to pay back. Funny how because he has done one nice kind act which has been shown on tv that people seem to think ifs fine to commit benefit fraud. Every day many thousands of people commit fraud in business, from the managing directors of the biggest companies, to starts of stage and screen, just take a look at any company that has its accounts on line, and you will see tax avoidance, tax evasion and scams, anything from people being given new cars, houses, holidays, mobile phones, sponsorship of racing cars, race horses, football teams. I know that crime is crime, weather it be someone taking a biro from work, using the work phone for a personal call, using work paper or stamps, to a billion pound fraud. But to fall into the trap of focusing on one guy who breaks jars of coffee and pkts of sugar into 50p affordable "luxuries for people with very little money, seems pointless and you have been pulled into the trap the programme makers were aiming for." here here | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"The 50p man was selling stuff along with claiming...hence his benefits were stopped. Im waiting for those who will now string him up for doing both. And he was giving gear for free when he felt sorry for others harder off. But yea lets take what dignity he had away to satisfy the daily mail baying for his 72 quid a week back. Poor bloke. Let tthe toffs keep their heads in the trough but damn ordinary people like him He was comiting benefit fraud at the end of the day so he should have his benefits stopped and looked in to and any money that has been over paid he should have to pay back. Funny how because he has done one nice kind act which has been shown on tv that people seem to think ifs fine to commit benefit fraud. Every day many thousands of people commit fraud in business, from the managing directors of the biggest companies, to starts of stage and screen, just take a look at any company that has its accounts on line, and you will see tax avoidance, tax evasion and scams, anything from people being given new cars, houses, holidays, mobile phones, sponsorship of racing cars, race horses, football teams. I know that crime is crime, weather it be someone taking a biro from work, using the work phone for a personal call, using work paper or stamps, to a billion pound fraud. But to fall into the trap of focusing on one guy who breaks jars of coffee and pkts of sugar into 50p affordable "luxuries for people with very little money, seems pointless and you have been pulled into the trap the programme makers were aiming for." when the rich steal from the poor its called business when the poor steal from the rich they get locked up | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"The 50p man was selling stuff along with claiming...hence his benefits were stopped. Im waiting for those who will now string him up for doing both. And he was giving gear for free when he felt sorry for others harder off. But yea lets take what dignity he had away to satisfy the daily mail baying for his 72 quid a week back. Poor bloke. Let tthe toffs keep their heads in the trough but damn ordinary people like him He was comiting benefit fraud at the end of the day so he should have his benefits stopped and looked in to and any money that has been over paid he should have to pay back. Funny how because he has done one nice kind act which has been shown on tv that people seem to think ifs fine to commit benefit fraud. Every day many thousands of people commit fraud in business, from the managing directors of the biggest companies, to starts of stage and screen, just take a look at any company that has its accounts on line, and you will see tax avoidance, tax evasion and scams, anything from people being given new cars, houses, holidays, mobile phones, sponsorship of racing cars, race horses, football teams. I know that crime is crime, weather it be someone taking a biro from work, using the work phone for a personal call, using work paper or stamps, to a billion pound fraud. But to fall into the trap of focusing on one guy who breaks jars of coffee and pkts of sugar into 50p affordable "luxuries for people with very little money, seems pointless and you have been pulled into the trap the programme makers were aiming for.when the rich steal from the poor its called business when the poor steal from the rich they get locked up " That's so true. I'll remember that. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"i read today i think that white dee as she calls herself was convicted for fraud when working for birmingham council i dont think they have done themselves any favours bragging about defrauding their benefits and showing you how to rob in high street shops i bet there is an increase in traffic up that road " She stole £13000 from Birmingham city council...the money was meant to be for vulnerable people.... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"i read today i think that white dee as she calls herself was convicted for fraud when working for birmingham council i dont think they have done themselves any favours bragging about defrauding their benefits and showing you how to rob in high street shops i bet there is an increase in traffic up that road She stole £13000 from Birmingham city council...the money was meant to be for vulnerable people...." wow........ thats about the same amount my council have stolen off me in bedroom tax | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"i read today i think that white dee as she calls herself was convicted for fraud when working for birmingham council i dont think they have done themselves any favours bragging about defrauding their benefits and showing you how to rob in high street shops i bet there is an increase in traffic up that road She stole £13000 from Birmingham city council...the money was meant to be for vulnerable people.... wow........ thats about the same amount my council have stolen off me in bedroom tax " It's not the councils who brought in bedroom tax it was the government...councils and social housing are only carrying out what was brought in by the government...so really they have not stolen anything..you may find that a lot don't agree with bedroom tax within the housing sector | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"But.........i may be getting it all back " We'll then that's good... | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"But.........i may be getting it all back We'll then that's good..." i love loopholes | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Why are a lot of people going on about it going on in Birmingham? It happens everywhere . I think the Government, the law and DWP are all wrong when it comes to handing out benefits as the decisions they make don't make any sense at all and genuine people who have worked for many years tend to suffer and people who refuse to work gain a lot " well said that man | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"i read today i think that white dee as she calls herself was convicted for fraud when working for birmingham council i dont think they have done themselves any favours bragging about defrauding their benefits and showing you how to rob in high street shops i bet there is an increase in traffic up that road She stole £13000 from Birmingham city council...the money was meant to be for vulnerable people.... wow........ thats about the same amount my council have stolen off me in bedroom tax " £13,000 in lost bedroom tax in less than a year? More than £1,000 a month reduction in housing benefit for having more bedrooms than you 'need'? That must be some rent. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Let's face facts british people have stuffed up our country and politicians r the worst offenders" don't be so hard on yourself, we don't blame you and the people who voted the people into power and the people who couldnt be arsed to vote or stand up for anything better........ and so on and so on. yup, it's always somebody else. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"you get the same shit whoever you vote in these days. thats why people have become so disillusioned with the voting system and would rather give it a miss cookie cutter MP`s and leaders alike " I thought ukip would b a good bet till farage denied sayin britain was full | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Its true, we winge about a sniffle,r to lazy to work for minimum wage, and applaud our troops for sorting out the worldwide shit whilst voting in a government that allows an Invasion ,didn't we fight two wars to stop foriegn invasion, I am not racist but, how many unemployed brits wud travel to 4/5 countries to find work " I'm not part of the 'we'. I don't think too many are. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Its true, we winge about a sniffle,r to lazy to work for minimum wage, and applaud our troops for sorting out the worldwide shit whilst voting in a government that allows an Invasion ,didn't we fight two wars to stop foriegn invasion, I am not racist but, how many unemployed brits wud travel to 4/5 countries to find work I'm not part of the 'we'. I don't think too many are." There's a good 'we' too. There's the we that work collectively because together we are stronger. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"Its true, we winge about a sniffle,r to lazy to work for minimum wage, and applaud our troops for sorting out the worldwide shit whilst voting in a government that allows an Invasion ,didn't we fight two wars to stop foriegn invasion, I am not racist but, how many unemployed brits wud travel to 4/5 countries to find work I'm not part of the 'we'. I don't think too many are. There's a good 'we' too. There's the we that work collectively because together we are stronger." and your we are? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
"As someone from Brum I'm disgusted totally by it all. I know the street in question too and they haven't shown any of the decent residents that live there To show the nice side wouldnt be in the governments interests. They want the division and hate this sort of programme causes maybe its because the decent people have to much pride than to strut themselves on such a show for a few quid, you cant make people go on the show" They didn't go looking for decent people in the first place. If they did, the reaction (by the general public) would be different and all they would see is decent people struggling and we know that. The difference is we wouldn't be angry about it...or we'd be angry towards the wrong people. Here's something for you to think about: On the day the show launched, George Osborne laid plans to cut £10bn from the welfare budget. Now of course this is just a coincidence but with the show stirring up so much animosity, do we agree with him? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |
| |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) |