FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > A warning to all the Scotts

A warning to all the Scotts

By *hyllyphylly OP Man over a year ago

Bradford

As someone who wants a referendum on Yorkshire leaving the UK, I'm not fussed if Scotland stays or goes..... But supermarkets are....

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It seems some of the biggest supermarkets don’t like the idea of Scotland going independent and are threatening to put their prices up North of the Border.

The chief exec of Asda, one of the retailers saying they’ll be putting their prices up, added that an independent Scotland may well be a less attractive place to invest, even though the Scottish government said that they’d lower taxes to make the country more competitive.

“The cost of doing business in different parts of the country does vary,” said Andy Clarke, the chief executive of Asda and they’ve have higher distribution costs in Scotland, on top of cost to a public health levy on shops that sell booze and cigs. ”A ‘Yes’ vote in 2014 could result in Scotland being a less attractive investment proposition for business and put further pressure on our costs,” he said.

A spokesman for Morrisons, also thinking of sticking their prices up, said: “Why should customers in Cardiff subsidise those in Aberdeen?”

Tesco and Sainsbury’s are currently saying “no comment”, but the Financial Times reckon that one of the Big Four have already agreed to put prices up in Scotland.

The Scottish National Party are already planning to cut corporation tax and fuel duty, in a bid to keep retailers costs down and a spokesperson told the BBC: “Scotland would be more competitive and less costly than at present. There is no reason why retail prices in an independent Scotland would be any higher than at the moment.”

Energy companies are clearly getting good at swaying government opinions, persuading Cameron to look at green levies in exchange for cheaper bills for all – are the supermarkets publicly trying their luck too?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Maybe scotland should boycott and strike, while the iron's hot...do a national non payment of any bills, or public spending of any kind...as well as not going to work...only for one day.. national standstill!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Lower Corporation Tax ?

Scotland the newest offshore tax haven then

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By *b430Man over a year ago

Tayside

Disclaimer - Not everybody who shops at a supermarket is called Scott!

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By *hyllyphylly OP Man over a year ago

Bradford

"Disclaimer - Not everybody who shops at a supermarket is called Scott!

you're not meant to notice my spelling mistake

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By *adybee77Woman over a year ago

MAMOBA, miles and miles of bugger all (Aberdeenshire)

"Disclaimer - Not everybody who shops at a supermarket is called Scott!

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By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

I'd be totally up for Yorkshire leaving the UK ..... we could get some tug boats to tow it away and dump it off the coast of Albania and the rest of us can have a peaceful and happy life

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Maybe scotland should boycott and strike, while the iron's hot...do a national non payment of any bills, or public spending of any kind...as well as not going to work...only for one day.. national standstill!

Don't 99% of them do that 365 days a year anyway

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Oh harsh, i work like a xxxx, and ive been all over england, and its not much to shout about.

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By *illbillMan over a year ago

dublin

staor stait na hAlba abú

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By *ighland_RoseCouple over a year ago

Brigadoon

That will be more business for the Scottish Co-Op then.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think with the state of british economy, the first thing we should be doing is putting the anti scottish/english bullshit and unite, if u hadnt noticed, the romanian gangs have arrived, the britain that we once knew is now gone for ever.the indiginous people have to unite to survive.

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By *ce WingerMan over a year ago

P.O. Box DE1 0NQ

Wasn't it that long ago that Celtic & Rangers wanted to play in the English League

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By *b430Man over a year ago

Tayside

"I think with the state of british economy, the first thing we should be doing is putting the anti scottish/english bullshit and unite, if u hadnt noticed, the romanian gangs have arrived, the britain that we once knew is now gone for ever.the indiginous people have to unite to survive."

Ye what!!!!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Wasn't it that long ago that Celtic & Rangers wanted to play in the English League

Aarrgghh don't bring the football into this as its all I hear all day!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Disclaimer - Not everybody who shops at a supermarket is called Scott!

My Scot isn't called Scott either

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By *icked weaselCouple over a year ago

Near Edinburgh..

Ye what!!!!!

We Left Scotland.. Recently.. and it was partially due to the Bad Weather and Also the large number of east-euro influx that you don't seem to mind.. call us racist be we "were" Scots..

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By *b430Man over a year ago

Tayside

Ye what!!!!!

We Left Scotland.. Recently.. and it was partially due to the Bad Weather and Also the large number of east-euro influx that you don't seem to mind.. call us racist be we "were" Scots..

Why would I "mind" them?

I was born here and lived here ever since and I don't see it as a problem like others do, including yourselves as it seems. So much for the welcoming Scots attitude!

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By *extoysareusCouple over a year ago

kinky heaven

Excellent, the shots should stick their fingers up to the supermarkets.

Shop local

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By *hris n AnnaCouple over a year ago

edinburghish

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By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

that was said about the romans.... then the saxons ..... then the vikings .... then the normans .... then the etc etc etc.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

that was said about the romans.... then the saxons ..... then the vikings .... then the normans .... then the etc etc etc.

Bad examples all those invaders killed thousand lol

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By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

All right... all right... but apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have the Romans done for us?

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Prices might go up, prices might go down. Prices might stay the same.

Also if we remain in the union, prices might go up, prices might go down. Prices might stay the same.

Blah blah blah, scare story bollocks. Next.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

Apparently the Vikings are the only people who liked Largs enough they went back.

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By *riendly foeWoman over a year ago

In a crisp poke on the A814

Jeez....its hardly a warning

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"All right... all right... but apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have the Romans done for us?

Left us things to dig up

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

Left us things to dig up"

Helped put Carenza Lewis on telly.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Can of worms time. "Scotts" make split lentils, soup mix, porridge oats.

"Scots" come from Scotland.....

I vote for whippets to be the national animal of the newly formed Peoples Republic of Yorkshire.

Roll on the Tour de France 2014

Thats me retired from.politics.....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Don't 99% of them do that 365 days a year anyway

Not funny...!!

Well....kinda

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

But I don't wanna unite, I like scotland, thanks, and if the English government would STOP inviting others to come to britain and live a comfy life on our benefits...(when they are kicking people who've 'put in' to this system..OFF!)

When they don't speak english, can't work, have no funds,....and more importantly WE don't have enough money, housing, or space for the people born to this country...shouldn't be allowed entry!

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

When they don't speak english, can't work, have no funds,....and more importantly WE don't have enough money, housing, or space for the people born to this country...shouldn't be allowed entry!

Isn't Eck DESPERATE to become a member of the EU, the very organisation which facilitates freedom of movement of people between EU countries?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Will Scotland then have the Euro rather than the £?

signed dumb ass of devon?

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"Will Scotland then have the Euro rather than the £?

signed dumb ass of devon?"

Eck insists the currency in any separate Scotland will be Sterling.

The Treasury and the Bank of England may know better.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

When they don't speak english, can't work, have no funds,....and more importantly WE don't have enough money, housing, or space for the people born to this country...shouldn't be allowed entry!

Right, to start with you indigenous people have all at some point in the past been fucked by an Italian, Frenchman, Norse and worst of all an American. It's a round fucking planet and about time you started to realise that.

And the reason the country is in such a bad state is that YOU have allowed and continue to allow successive governments to do it, and helped cause it by borrowing money for things you don't really need.

So before you blame the Romanian who comes here to pick sprouts for minimum wage, I suggest you pick up a copy of private eye and take a look at the sort of shit you let our elected representatives and CEOs get away with.

And before someone bleats in with "yeah but private eye gets things wrong a lot", yes it does, but even if only 50% of it's stories are true thats still a shocking amount of shit that passes people by through their own disinterest.

I fucking hate right wingers. It's always someone elses fault.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

When they don't speak english, can't work, have no funds,....and more importantly WE don't have enough money, housing, or space for the people born to this country...shouldn't be allowed entry!

I fucking hate right wingers. It's always someone elses fault. "

So it's ok to hate and blame others as long as it's you doing it !!!!!

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

When they don't speak english, can't work, have no funds,....and more importantly WE don't have enough money, housing, or space for the people born to this country...shouldn't be allowed entry!

I fucking hate right wingers. It's always someone elses fault.

So it's ok to hate and blame others as long as it's you doing it !!!!!"

No, it's OK to blame others so long as you're right.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Not many sprouts being picked at the moment

We could create some paddy fields tho

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

All governments and employers for years have been happy to keep unemployment high to keep labour costs down

There are far more unemployed than official figures would have us believe

As for Scotland I've said b4 I think we are better as a United Kingdom however if they wish to leave the union that is their choice at least or at least I hope England will not see to much more of salmond

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"All governments and employers for years have been happy to keep unemployment high to keep labour costs down

There are far more unemployed than official figures would have us believe

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

When they don't speak english, can't work, have no funds,....and more importantly WE don't have enough money, housing, or space for the people born to this country...shouldn't be allowed entry!

I fucking hate right wingers. It's always someone elses fault. "

Ehhh...??? Nice rant!

But when did I blame anyone other than the "ENGLISH" government?

The poor people invited to come this country ARE more than entitled to be here, as our lovely queen and her empire most likey raped their country and people for their worth many moons ago...it IS our responsibility to aid them, since we continue to allow it!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

....And just for the record, I don't give my vote to lying bastards, or support to a murderous, enslaving, greedy, manipulating crown!

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By *rodie53Man over a year ago

Manchester

But you did say our lovely queen

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Boycott all asda stores sounds good to me but when are more jobs lost and i am scottish and un sure what id do when it came to vote

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Dont panic we willl have 'Mac-Asda' and 'Mac-Morrisons' good Scottish supermarkets with scottish produce further stimulsting the Scottish economy, sounds great!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"But you did say our lovely queen"

NOT by my choice!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Dont panic we willl have 'Mac-Asda' and 'Mac-Morrisons' good Scottish supermarkets with scottish produce further stimulsting the Scottish economy, sounds great!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Not spoken to single Scottish person who wants it yet , power gone to salmonds heed .

He isn't capable of running a nation

Let him run the local supermarket

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By *ighland_RoseCouple over a year ago

Brigadoon

"Not spoken to single Scottish person who wants it yet , power gone to salmonds heed .

He isn't capable of running a nation

Let him run the local supermarket "

I live in Scotland, not England as you do which makes your opinion null and void, and every person I know wants independence and will vote for it.

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By *ighland_RoseCouple over a year ago

Brigadoon

"Not spoken to single Scottish person who wants it yet , power gone to salmonds heed .

He isn't capable of running a nation

Let him run the local supermarket

I live in Scotland, not England as you do which makes your opinion null and void, and every person I know wants independence and will vote for it."

And Alex Salmond is worth a thousand of any one of your lot.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Not spoken to single Scottish person who wants it yet , power gone to salmonds heed .

He isn't capable of running a nation

Let him run the local supermarket

I live in Scotland, not England as you do which makes your opinion null and void, and every person I know wants independence and will vote for it.

And Alex Salmond is worth a thousand of any one of your lot."

Yeah go Scotland !!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I'd prefer if we stayed together because I like the Scots but I can't say I blame you guys from wanting to get some distance from our current political system and think given half the chance I'd probably do the same.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd prefer if we stayed together because I like the Scots but I can't say I blame you guys from wanting to get some distance from our current political system and think given half the chance I'd probably do the same. "

Wise words my friend

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"Dont panic we willl have 'Mac-Asda' and 'Mac-Morrisons' good Scottish supermarkets with scottish produce further stimulsting the Scottish economy, sounds great!!

Sounds like Brigadoon.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Don't 99% of them do that 365 days a year anyway

Aye just like all geordies are jacket less slappers

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Mr salmond only wants independence to leave his legacy. He has no interest in the scottish people. For fuck sake he is so confident of it working the white paper states the reason For keeping the pound is in case we need to borrow from England in an emergency.. That alone don't give me the confidence too vote yes. Not like I was ever going to.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

A lot if people still don't understand so much about Scottish independence and the debate which is taking place here.

It's not about Alex Salmond or any political party. If Scotland voted Tory or if it were generally a right of centre country then maybe there would be less support for independence. But we don't. We vote for things like free education and free healthcare because the alternative is the creation if inequality and we are more socialist than that in Scotland. But we are being lumbered with Tory policies which don't represent us at all.

Independence is inevitable as it is a natural state for a person and for a country. Support is also steadily growing and that won't go away overnight. Personally I do think we will take it this time but if we don't, we most certainly will next time.

Ask yourself, if there are strong arguments against it , why is the supermarket thing being discussed. We all know it's a nonsense. Is that all they have?

Oh and we will still use our pound. It is ours, you see. The bank if England is no more England's than Scotland Yard is Scottish. The BOE is independent of government and is one if Scotland's many many assets.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Don't 99% of them do that 365 days a year anyway

Aye just like all geordies are jacket less slappers "

So glad I'm not a Geordie then

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I'd be totally up for Yorkshire leaving the UK ..... we could get some tug boats to tow it away and dump it off the coast of Albania and the rest of us can have a peaceful and happy life

Oy you leave us where we are...i get sea sick and I kinda like being far away from Albania

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

".....

............ "

There won't be a 'next time'. This decision, either way, is a once and for all thing.

We're not Ireland. You can't keep asking the same question time after time till the people give you the answer you want - despite what John Mason might wish.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

There won't be a 'next time'. This decision, either way, is a once and for all thing.

We're not Ireland. You can't keep asking the same question time after time till the people give you the answer you want - despite what John Mason might wish."

You see this is what I mean about a lack I understanding if the issue. I don't mean to patronise, so please forgive me if it sounds that way. But why wouldn't there be a next time? Where is you think all the yes voters are going to disappear to? How do you think democracy works? If, in 10 years after a no vote there is a party in power who support independence, why would they not suggest another vote? If there is a call amongst the population for it then they will.

Independence is about bring the decision making process of a country into that country and that makes sense to a lot if people. Who is better to make decisions for Scotland than the people who live here? The more people learn about it, the more they support it. It's growing and it won't disappear anytime soon.

There are so many people who rely only one the pro union bbc for info and as a result have no idea what way the wind is blowing in Scotland. They are I for a surprise I think.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

Do you really think any serious political party would seek to put the people of Scotland through all this shite again in 10 years time?

No wonder they call it the Neverendum.

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By *tirling DarkCouple over a year ago

Stirling

"Disclaimer - Not everybody who shops at a supermarket is called Scott!

you're not meant to notice my spelling mistake

But it is a bit of a biggy spelling mistake

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By *tirling DarkCouple over a year ago

Stirling

I think the newly released government documents spell out exactly how the Tory party view Scotland. One Tory MP in British parliament speaks volumes.

Will be interesting to see what supermarkets do, do they really want to piss off 6 million customers?

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"Do you really think any serious political party would seek to put the people of Scotland through all this shite again in 10 years time?

No wonder they call it the Neverendum."

If the people say they want it, yes. It's called a democracy.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

".....

............

There won't be a 'next time'. This decision, either way, is a once and for all thing.

We're not Ireland. You can't keep asking the same question time after time till the people give you the answer you want - despite what John Mason might wish."

I think you can ask as many times as you WANT TO,

Its also not even their place to decide our fate, ITS OURS!! Nothing worth having has ever been 'Given' the scottish people, if we want it, we're gonna have to take it back by force!

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By *atasha_DavidCouple over a year ago

Slough

"As someone who wants a referendum on Yorkshire leaving the UK, "

Yorkshire is not part of the UK, as Gods own country, we have lived amongst the peasants for years

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

One of the biggest reasons for me to leave the UK and go independent is the fact that we have a government we didn't vote for. the English say they don't like it either but they votes the Tories in. I'm sorry but it's not our job to protect you from governments you vote in. They use Scotland as a dumping ground for all the shit they don't want and have the cheek to make out we are better together

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

".....

............

There won't be a 'next time'. This decision, either way, is a once and for all thing.

We're not Ireland. You can't keep asking the same question time after time till the people give you the answer you want - despite what John Mason might wish.

I think you can ask as many times as you WANT TO,

Its also not even their place to decide our fate, ITS OURS!! Nothing worth having has ever been 'Given' the scottish people, if we want it, we're gonna have to take it back by force!

Next thing we know people will be painting their faces with a Saltire and marching to the buroo with a claymore in their hand (with apologies to Brian McNeill).

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

".....

Next thing we know people will be painting their faces with a Saltire and marching to the buroo with a claymore in their hand (with apologies to Brian McNeill)."

And there is the inevitable rabid nationalism reference... Like I say, a lot of people are going to be left behind in this debate if they don't keep up.

This is about creating something new. Something very exciting and different from the same old same old we have been used to.

How about living in a country where we have a real say in how it gets run. Bye bye House of Lords, bye bye nuclear weapons, bye bye bedroom tax. Scotland's taxes spent in Scotland.

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By *tirling DarkCouple over a year ago

Stirling

I think all the "no" campaigners need to wake up to the fact that if it is a NO in September be prepared for a Tory government for many years to come. Does the fact that there is only one Tory MP not say something? Labour to the rescue? Yeah, keep that dream going with Mr Milaband at the helm.

And now back to the perving

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Of course there is always the deep undercurrent of Scots nationalism that has been festering away for centuries. The SNP is even making a huge deal of the Bannockburn anniversary which, handily, is in the weeks leading up to the vote. I believe there are big televised events happening which should stir the national blood sufficiently. At the dark heart of this all, when it boils down to it is the fact that the nationalists just want to poke England in the eye, while enriching themselves in a new government. They have no-ones best interests at heart, any more than a London government does.

Another problem with all this is the "I don't want a government in a city 500 miles away making decisions that affect me" cries.

Works perfectly well in the USA which is a fuck of a lot bigger. You don't see Hawaii trying to get out of the union and it's a tad further away from Washington than Edinburgh is from London.

They have a 2 party system same as us and it's a damn sight more complicated than our stupid system of voting. They have state legislature for local issues and more of that is needed in Scotland. More devolved powers, but not a full split from the union.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

".....

Next thing we know people will be painting their faces with a Saltire and marching to the buroo with a claymore in their hand (with apologies to Brian McNeill).

And there is the inevitable rabid nationalism reference... Like I say, a lot of people are going to be left behind in this debate if they don't keep up.

This is about creating something new. Something very exciting and different from the same old same old we have been used to.

How about living in a country where we have a real say in how it gets run. Bye bye House of Lords, bye bye nuclear weapons, bye bye bedroom tax. Scotland's taxes spent in Scotland.

Re 'rabid nationalism'. It was fransummersparties who mentioned the use of force.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"I think all the "no" campaigners need to wake up to the fact that if it is a NO in September be prepared for a Tory government for many years to come. Does the fact that there is only one Tory MP not say something? Labour to the rescue? Yeah, keep that dream going with Mr Milaband at the helm.

And now back to the perving"

And only 6 SNP MPs?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

".....

Next thing we know people will be painting their faces with a Saltire and marching to the buroo with a claymore in their hand (with apologies to Brian McNeill).

And there is the inevitable rabid nationalism reference... Like I say, a lot of people are going to be left behind in this debate if they don't keep up.

This is about creating something new. Something very exciting and different from the same old same old we have been used to.

How about living in a country where we have a real say in how it gets run. Bye bye House of Lords, bye bye nuclear weapons, bye bye bedroom tax. Scotland's taxes spent in Scotland.

Re 'rabid nationalism'. It was fransummersparties who mentioned the use of force. "

But no names...

And I aint just talking about scotland, the english people have the same issue, the government NO longer works for them, it doesn't even listen to our issues, why..because its a farce, plain and simple!

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Works perfectly well in the USA "

Seriously...?

The USA is the fecking last place anyone should be looking for a positive example.

Who makes decisions for Sweden? Denmark?

Who decides if Belgium goes to war? France?

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

".....

Next thing we know people will be painting their faces with a Saltire and marching to the buroo with a claymore in their hand (with apologies to Brian McNeill).

And there is the inevitable rabid nationalism reference... Like I say, a lot of people are going to be left behind in this debate if they don't keep up.

This is about creating something new. Something very exciting and different from the same old same old we have been used to.

How about living in a country where we have a real say in how it gets run. Bye bye House of Lords, bye bye nuclear weapons, bye bye bedroom tax. Scotland's taxes spent in Scotland.

Re 'rabid nationalism'. It was fransummersparties who mentioned the use of force.

But no names...

Despite your editing, your post was about the Scottish people taking it by force.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

Works perfectly well in the USA

Seriously...?

The USA is the fecking last place anyone should be looking for a positive example.

Who makes decisions for Sweden? Denmark?

Who decides if Belgium goes to war? France?

Isn't that what NATO is about? The NATO Salmond changed his party's long standing rule about so he could 'remain' in NATO.

An attack on one is deemed to be an attack on all. An attack on Albania will provoke a response from Scotland - unless Eck is lying about this too.

Oh yes, and what's the NATO rule about nuclear weapons? Is this another one which just 'won't apply' to Scotland?

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Isn't that what NATO is about? The NATO Salmond changed his party's long standing rule about so he could 'remain' in NATO.

An attack on one is deemed to be an attack on all. An attack on Albania will provoke a response from Scotland - unless Eck is lying about this too.

Oh yes, and what's the NATO rule about nuclear weapons? Is this another one which just 'won't apply' to Scotland?"

Yes if someone randomly attacks Albania then why shouldn't we help out. But illegal wars in Iraq that Scotland opposed but we were dragged into anyway, no chance.

As for nukes. Are Germany in NATO? Because they don't have nukes.

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By *kmale421Man over a year ago

wirral

It's an interesting debate but it's much bigger than what price supermarkets would charge customers in Scotland.

In essence it it doesn't matter what the SNP promise a newly independent Scotland as governments and indeed policies change over time and what's promised today will be different to what's delivered in 10/20/30 years time.

Some of the things Salmond promises will be out of his control. For example the BOE have an agreement currently with the BOS that honours Scottish currency in England but that might not continue and a future UK government may choose to seperate sterling from Scotland.

No one knows about current UK national employers continuing to supply or base themselves in a "foreign" country. I'd think it would be unlikely that UK government would allow Government work to remain in Scotland though the newly independent Scotland may need more government employees.

Defence contracts are likely to move back to England for example The Mersey certainly has the potential to take on work currently done at Govan and so potentially does The Tyne.

There are no doubt some benefits to Scotland going independent but there are many pitfalls too and if the decision is a yes it'll never change back so in that sense the population of Scotland both living in Scotland and around the world with the sole exception of Scots living in England, Wales & N. Ireland aged 16 and older have a huge decision to make.

As for the effect on the rest of the UK, short term it would be political chaos and probably ensure a Tory parliament for maybe 10 to 20 years as Labour reorganises itself. Long term though I think the remainder of UK will be more financially stable and less risk than an independent Scotland.

In reality the English and especially Southern England have barely given the outcome of September a thought and if Salmond was to win it would be a huge shock to many people.

Finally C4 have done a few reports this week. One highlighted that the UK government some years ago redrew the Scots/English maritime border to include some or all of the oilfields into England. While no doubt this would be the subject if dispute post vote, the fact is that right now a yes vote would be on the borders as they are today and not what they may wish them to be in the future.

I think in the end this will be a closeish vote but that it will be swayed by the population from Glasgow and Edinburgh southwards who will give a majority to the No campaign but enough give London a scare.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

I love this "things might be very difficult if Scotland becomes independent..."

Open your eyes! 1 in 4 children born into poverty, the rise of the food bank etc...the problems aren't just in the last few years. It's been terrible for a long time and this nation is supposed to be "rich". Rich for who?

If people in England are voting for parties who believe education should be for those who can afford it then I'm sorry but this union is broken.

In Scotland, education is for all so that there is no one unable to go all the way if he or she wants too. That's for me. We are not in this together any more I'm afraid. It's done.

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By *tirling DarkCouple over a year ago

Stirling

And now back to the perving

And only 6 SNP MPs?"

And who is in the majority in the Scottish parliament? And doing the maths, 6 is a lot more than 1.

With regards to NATO, being a member doesn't mean you have to have nuclear weapons on your soil. You can still fully support NATO without that shit.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Works perfectly well in the USA

Seriously...?

The USA is the fecking last place anyone should be looking for a positive example.

Who makes decisions for Sweden? Denmark?

Who decides if Belgium goes to war? France?

Think you've misinterpreted the point of my post. The USA, one country, lots of states with their own legislative bodies, none of whom want to leave the union and most of whom are further from the capital city than Edinburgh is from London.

If what you object to is a government getting into power without a majority then you had the chance to change that by voting in the AV referendum.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

OP - in which case, Scotland should cut the tax on whiskey & subsidise it by increasing the tax on any that crosses the border!!

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By *opinovMan over a year ago

Point Nemo, Cumbria

Don't be fooled - it's all bluster - nothing more.

Sure, the supermarkets may say that now - but, if Scotland votes yes, they'll soon forget about all that and become competitive again because they know there will be plenty of other retailers happy to take their place.

Don't forget that many of those big supermarkets have bosses with connections to the Westminster lobbying machine and members of the cabinet. There's no such thing as a free lunch in those corridors of power - they're staying "on message" because they know there's always a quid pro quo to cash in when they need it.

The flip side of that may well come when they're bribing and sucking up to an independent Scottish government - at which point we'll all see their tune change.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"OP - in which case, Scotland should cut the tax on whiskey & subsidise it by increasing the tax on any that crosses the border!!

We don't make whiskey.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"......

With regards to NATO, being a member doesn't mean you have to have nuclear weapons on your soil. You can still fully support NATO without that shit. "

Typical Salmond type response. "You can have all of the good stuff and none of the bad". Free heavy beer, pie suppers in the sky.

Brigadoon in all but name.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"......

With regards to NATO, being a member doesn't mean you have to have nuclear weapons on your soil. You can still fully support NATO without that shit.

Typical Salmond type response. "You can have all of the good stuff and none of the bad". Free heavy beer, pie suppers in the sky.

Brigadoon in all but name."

What does that even mean? Seriously. There is an amazing debate going on in this country and some fascinating points of view about the type of country we can create. You obviously don't have much time for Salmond. So vote for someone else after independence! Not only will Scottish independence reinvent the Scottish Labour Party as they will no longer be answerable to their Westminster masters, but the whole thing will rejuvenate politics south of the border too. It's an amazing opportunity.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Hello all,

firstly, as an expatriate Scot, I am not happy that I can't vote on this referendum.

Have not the Nationalists noticed that another small independent country is not doing so well, namely the Republic of Ireland? As in control of their policies as Scotland may be in the future.

To me all the criticism of the 'English!' parliament smacks of a rather large chip on the shoulder and less of an evaluation of what is being attempted by the government.

Frankly I think Mr. Salmond is feeding the Scottish people with a huge dose of optimism and 'rose tinted glasses' which is helped on the way by an inbred antagonism to the English.

For the sake of Scotland and it's people I sincerely hope sense prevails and the vote is a no.

Alec

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Is true, though. Hardly any NATO countries have nuclear weapons of their soil.

With the improvements in air/sea delivery, there is probably less need for USA to spread their stash over the world, too

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"Hello all,

firstly, as an expatriate Scot, I am not happy that I can't vote on this referendum.

Have not the Nationalists noticed that another small independent country is not doing so well, namely the Republic of Ireland? As in control of their policies as Scotland may be in the future.

To me all the criticism of the 'English!' parliament smacks of a rather large chip on the shoulder and less of an evaluation of what is being attempted by the government.

Frankly I think Mr. Salmond is feeding the Scottish people with a huge dose of optimism and 'rose tinted glasses' which is helped on the way by an inbred antagonism to the English.

For the sake of Scotland and it's people I sincerely hope sense prevails and the vote is a no.

Alec"

Relax. It could be worse. Poor Alan Cumming bought a flat in Edinburgh so he could vote .......... only to find he couldn't.

Daftie.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"......

With regards to NATO, being a member doesn't mean you have to have nuclear weapons on your soil. You can still fully support NATO without that shit.

Typical Salmond type response. "You can have all of the good stuff and none of the bad". Free heavy beer, pie suppers in the sky.

Brigadoon in all but name.

Brigadoon is where everything is wonderful and nobody is sad.

Where the sun always shines (even when Eck isn't bending over) and it never rains.

Where everything is free and nothing has a cost.

Where there's plenty of clouds and an unusual number of cuckoos.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

When they don't speak english, can't work, have no funds,....and more importantly WE don't have enough money, housing, or space for the people born to this country...shouldn't be allowed entry!

I couldn't agree more, though I left off the right wing as we on the left have a blame culture too, just different folk.

I was particularly annoyed at the comment about the "English" parliament. Scots Welshmen and ulstermen all have a higher proportion of MPs per head of population than do the English. We have more in total because our population comprises 75% that of the UK but have around 65% of the membership of the commons.

Sterling will not be the currency of an independent Scotland, no UK govt will allow it, carrying all the risk but receiving none of the reward for doing so.

All id say further is, please don't go, Scotland, both we and you are wealthier for the union, we will all be worse off without it

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

So....how come the Falkland Islands, Gilbralter, the Isle of man and Jersey and Guernsey are 'allowed' to us the pound sterling?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

sorry- 'use'

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"So....how come the Falkland Islands, Gilbralter, the Isle of man and Jersey and Guernsey are 'allowed' to us the pound sterling?"

None, to my knowledge, are planning to leave.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Leave the UK? lol.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Sterling will not be the currency of an independent Scotland, no UK govt will allow it, carrying all the risk but receiving none of the reward for doing so.

You see, this frustrates me. Your simply wrong. Your use words like "allow" and when scots get a bit annoyed about it we have a chip on our shoulder. Sorry but the pound is mine. And I will indeed be using it post independence and no one can stop me. People hear "bank of England" and the assume it belongs to England. It's confusing, I know.

As for a recognised currency union, the day after we have voted yes, for any uk government to suggest anything other than a sterling zone is utter madness. They would be erecting barriers to trade - you know those barriers they pretend independence will bring - and they will be costing themselves a lot of money to make a point. It simply will not happen.

Everything you hear now is posturing. No one can say "of course a sterling zone makes sense" (except Alistair darling a whole back but he doesn't like to be reminded of that) but the day after the vote, everything changes.

Scotland is a rich country with a huge amount going for it (a lot more than some of its own people realise) and for the rest of the UK to share currency with is is beneficial for both. Right now he union is just of benefit to London.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

None, to my knowledge, are planning to leave."

Erm...leave what?

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

Sterling will not be the currency of an independent Scotland, no UK govt will allow it, carrying all the risk but receiving none of the reward for doing so.

That is what is known as whistling to keep your spirits up.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Sterling will not be the currency of an independent Scotland, no UK govt will allow it, carrying all the risk but receiving none of the reward for doing so.

I accept the point, re "bank of England" but Scotland was admitted to the union on proviso that it's reserves etc would be placed at threadneedle street rather than be retained.

A close study in exit from the union would be Ireland. A new government will require a new currency. The UK has enough dodgy banks to cover while having responsibility to legislate them, the treasury will not agree to covering a sovereign states spending deficits.

The situation is different in Falklands, Gibraltar etc. as they do have their own currencies, which are backed by UK govt, but these places are crown dependencies with appointed heads of state (their sovereignty stemming from the ruling monarch).

Scotland will be in a position similar to the dominion states, with sovereignty, as far as I understand, yet to be decided.

Never the less, please don't leave, all the states of the union will be poorer for your independence including your own

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Ireland had a currency union with the uk until 1979. I think a lot of the misunderstandings about independence stem from the idea that Scotland somehow gets 'handouts' from the the rest if the uk. Even here in Scotland, despite this no longer being argued by the 'no' campaign, some people still believe it. They think we can't afford independence. Therefore all these questions about who is going to bail us out or underwrite debts etc etc won't go away. It's pure myth. We put more in than we get out and have done for the last 30 years. The figures are all out there.

Independence is not an anti English thing in the slightest. Anyone thinking it is is one of those who hasn't engaged in the debate enough. It's about fairness for Scotland. Decisions for here made here whether right or wrong.

If this debate was the other way around and we were being asked to join the union and give up control of our own affairs, do you think we'd even consider it?

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

" ..............

Scotland will be in a position similar to the dominion states, with sovereignty, as far as I understand, yet to be decided.

............... "

Eck has decided. It'll be the Queen.

I'm not sure anyone has asked what she thinks about this.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Sterling will not be the currency of an independent Scotland, no UK govt will allow it, carrying all the risk but receiving none of the reward for doing so.

London and the south east is where wealth is created via the city

10's of billions per year

While I don't blame Scotland as a whole you did give us.... Gordon Brown and Fred Goodwin

Hardly astute when it came to finance

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

Brown and Darling kept the UK banking system afloat the weekend the drink voucher dispensers nearly ran out of money.

People forget the 'little local inconvenience' of Northern Rock and Dunfermline but imagine that on a UK wide scale.

No cash. No direct debits or standing orders being paid. Your mortgage not being paid.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Irony is that Scotland will be the next "offshore " tax haven

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By *tirling DarkCouple over a year ago

Stirling

Sterling will not be the currency of an independent Scotland, no UK govt will allow it, carrying all the risk but receiving none of the reward for doing so.

London and the south east is where wealth is created via the city

10's of billions per year

While I don't blame Scotland as a whole you did give us.... Gordon Brown and Fred Goodwin

Hardly astute when it came to finance "

And you gave us Thatcher/ Major/ Cameron etc. To easy to blame the government's at the time of financial collapse. Was the crisis a British only one?

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By *tirling DarkCouple over a year ago

Stirling

"So....how come the Falkland Islands, Gilbralter, the Isle of man and Jersey and Guernsey are 'allowed' to us the pound sterling?

None, to my knowledge, are planning to leave."

Rather a poor argument as they are Crown Dependencies completely different position to Scotland.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Quite happily admit that financial wheelings and dealings are not my area. Was wondering, though, if Scotland isn't allowed to join the club, do we get the large reserves back from the B of E?

Would that not vastly devalue the £ sterling in the rest of the areas?

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"Quite happily admit that financial wheelings and dealings are not my area. Was wondering, though, if Scotland isn't allowed to join the club, do we get the large reserves back from the B of E?

Would that not vastly devalue the £ sterling in the rest of the areas? "

If Scotland is somehow refused it's share of its own assets because we "walked out" then we are also not liable for our share of the debt. Simple.

And the assets are huge. More than you'd think. Follow assets of Scotland on Twitter. Eye opening.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Quite happily admit that financial wheelings and dealings are not my area. Was wondering, though, if Scotland isn't allowed to join the club, do we get the large reserves back from the B of E?

Would that not vastly devalue the £ sterling in the rest of the areas?

If Scotland is somehow refused it's share of its own assets because we "walked out" then we are also not liable for our share of the debt. Simple.

And the assets are huge. More than you'd think. Follow assets of Scotland on Twitter. Eye opening. "

Does Twitter have debts of Scotland ?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yes it does

The outcome of Scottish independence and the financial split assets V debt

It must be fair to both parties , as would be expected and leave both parties viable . Again I would expect that as would any reasonable person

Due to the collapse of RBS and HBOS the UK debt and guarantees is over £2000 billion pounds

Ouch

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Does Twitter have debts of Scotland ?"

Sorry. Sloppy use of grammar there!

Check out "asset Scotland" on twitter.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Does Twitter have debts of Scotland ?

Sorry. Sloppy use of grammar there!

Check out "asset Scotland" on twitter. "

Sorry yes it was no excuses I did post above you tho

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

Sterling will not be the currency of an independent Scotland, no UK govt will allow it, carrying all the risk but receiving none of the reward for doing so.

London and the south east is where wealth is created via the city

10's of billions per year

While I don't blame Scotland as a whole you did give us.... Gordon Brown and Fred Goodwin

Hardly astute when it came to finance

And you gave us Thatcher/ Major/ Cameron etc. To easy to blame the government's at the time of financial collapse. Was the crisis a British only one? "

And we've found out in the last few days just what Thatcher and her cronies were up to.

Who brought Thatcher to power? The SNP.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Gosh......did they ALL vote for her?

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"Gosh......did they ALL vote for her?"

Just the ones with seats in Westminster. Tartan Tories then. Tartan Tories now.

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By *aisy100Woman over a year ago

wakefield

Will the Scottish people who vote no and dont want to stay in Scotland emigrate to England?

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"Will the Scottish people who vote no and dont want to stay in Scotland emigrate to England?"

I don't think there will be much of that. A lot of threats etc. People are going to find that nothing huge will change all that much straight away and even those against will begrudgingly have to admit that the roof didn't fall in on them and the next generation of kids will grow up feeling inferior to no one. We'll all grow a little more confident as a nation we'll take our place in the world. Things will just be...normal.

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By *b430Man over a year ago

Tayside

"Will the Scottish people who vote no and dont want to stay in Scotland emigrate to England?

You're assuming there will be a yes vote!

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Of course I am. There is only one way the wind is blowing and those who don't see it are either not living here, or have little interest in the debate.

A graph of support for independence just has a line gradually going up and up and debates like this are what's it's all about. It's happening all over the country. Myth busting and positive thinking. It's amazing.

As I've stated already, not only is this a great thing for Scottish labour (as they are gradually admitting) but also for the stagnating politics of the rest of the UK.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Of course I am. There is only one way the wind is blowing and those who don't see it are either not living here, or have little interest in the debate.

As I've stated already, not only is this a great thing for Scottish labour (as they are gradually admitting) but also for the stagnating politics of the rest of the UK. "

Had a quick glance at "assets Scotland " I thought it was a little more than cheeky listing the Trident delivery system and nuclear warheads when the SNP have said they have no wish to keep them

Also ....debt .....UK debt is over £1000 billion that is without the debt and guaranties relating to RBS , HBOS etc

Then it is closer to £2500 billion

You are welcome to your fair share

Also oil at the moment it is a UK asset , therefore I take it the oil reserves are split with the remainder of the UK should there be a yes vote

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By *b430Man over a year ago

Tayside

"Of course I am. There is only one way the wind is blowing and those who don't see it are either not living here, or have little interest in the debate.

As I've stated already, not only is this a great thing for Scottish labour (as they are gradually admitting) but also for the stagnating politics of the rest of the UK. "

I think you'll find I live in "Scotland's Birthplace" and I do have my copy of "Scotland's Future" which is full of all the "ifs and buts" but doesn't change my mind on the vote.

A lot of the people I know and I believed would be totally in favour of a yes vote are totally against it so I'm not too sure on your positivity that it will be a yes, only time will tell!

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"Of course I am. There is only one way the wind is blowing and those who don't see it are either not living here, or have little interest in the debate.

As I've stated already, not only is this a great thing for Scottish labour (as they are gradually admitting) but also for the stagnating politics of the rest of the UK.

Had a quick glance at "assets Scotland " I thought it was a little more than cheeky listing the Trident delivery system and nuclear warheads when the SNP have said they have no wish to keep them

Also ....debt .....UK debt is over £1000 billion that is without the debt and guaranties relating to RBS , HBOS etc

Then it is closer to £2500 billion

You are welcome to your fair share

Also oil at the moment it is a UK asset , therefore I take it the oil reserves are split with the remainder of the UK should there be a yes vote

I'd advise you to look further on asset Scotland. They release figures every day the point to amount and value of our assets around the world.

Also, you say oil is a UK asset therefore it would be split. I laughed out loud at that. Do you think that oil, currently in the ground already belongs to the UK? Do you think that if Lithuania strikes oil tomorrow Moscow will be on the phone for their share? If I find a bag if gold treasure in my back garden, does part of it belong to all the previous owners of the house? Post independence what we bring up, we keep. It's simple.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"......... Post independence what we bring up, we keep. It's simple. "

Post referendum, all you'll be bringing up is vomit. Sick as dogs you'll be.

Yes, you can keep it. It's simple.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Post referendum, all you'll be bringing up is vomit. Sick as dogs you'll be.

Yes, you can keep it. It's simple."

Mate you are tiresome. Such hatred. I get it - you hate the idea of a country running it's own affairs. Fair enough.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

Post referendum, all you'll be bringing up is vomit. Sick as dogs you'll be.

Yes, you can keep it. It's simple.

Mate you are tiresome. Such hatred. I get it - you hate the idea of a country running it's own affairs. Fair enough."

I just don't want my countrymen and women going back to living in black houses 'cos it suits Eck's vision of Granny's Heilan Hame.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

I don't know what that means. Honestly.

Anyway for everyone else interested in the debate - of all the countries to get their independence either from the UK or another empire, have any of them wished to return? What makes us uniquely unable to do this?

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"I don't know what that means. Honestly. "

That doesn't surprise me.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Always best not to insult people- lowers your credibility.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Don't be fooled - it's all bluster - nothing more.

The flip side of that may well come when they're bribing and sucking up to an independent Scottish government - at which point we'll all see their tune change."

Couldn't agree with you more dude, I think they're scared shitless!

I honestly believe that if you Scott's get yourselves something that Britain has never had; A straight, transparent government, then everyone in the so called 'union' will benefit!!!

Fingers crossed!!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I the male half am Scottish. What I cant stand is the brain washing that goes on with the "braveheart" sentiment/camp. I was working near skye recently and got to know a few locals and had a conversation one night in the bar with a local history and religious studies teacher.

He was horrified that his 16 year old daughter was in favour of union and would vote no. His comment said with venom was that he would soon kick that out her, figuratively speaking but that sort of idealistic brainwashing pushes me further from the snp nutters.

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By *icked weaselCouple over a year ago

Near Edinburgh..

we moved down from Edinburgh to Devon in November of last year..

Our shopping list from Tesco's went up by just under £6 per month.. and that was just on the stuff we buy on a regular basis..

I know for a fact my butter and my milk cost more as does some other brands.. and my relatives in Scotland still get them at a Cheaper price than we do !!

Cant see the supermarkets doing anything other than bringing the prices into line with England..

That's not fair-trade/ing in any sense !

Free prescriptions and free Travel for anyone on the Dole and free University etc etc..

How much is this snp Scotland trying to buy the people ??

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"we moved down from Edinburgh to Devon in November of last year..

............."

Do the inhabitants of Devon suffer the same delivery surcharges as those in the Highlands and Islands - or do some firms just not deliver at all?

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By *icked weaselCouple over a year ago

Near Edinburgh..

"we moved down from Edinburgh to Devon in November of last year..

.............

Do the inhabitants of Devon suffer the same delivery surcharges as those in the Highlands and Islands - or do some firms just not deliver at all?"

Not Sure - Never Stayed in the Highlands - but we did stay on the isle of arran but that was before they built an Asda in Ardrossan !!

So cant Honestly compare the Delivery-Charges im afraid.. x

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By *icked weaselCouple over a year ago

Near Edinburgh..

forgot to add that we mainly stayed in the central belt - or just outside Edinburgh..

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Sterling will not be the currency of an independent Scotland, no UK govt will allow it, carrying all the risk but receiving none of the reward for doing so.

All id say further is, please don't go, Scotland, both we and you are wealthier for the union, we will all be worse off without it "

ALL the politicians receive PAY from english government, that hardly leaves them unbiased and working for OUR interest, does it?, every party WORKS for the SAME person, our votes or reactions to their policies are nothing more that indicators for them...so that they, can then determine how best to appease, manipulate, and how to get the very last of our money into their pockets, how to lower our value, and turn us against each other! It doesn't really matter if we leave or not, they'll still be in control!!

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"....

how to lower our value, and turn us against each other! It doesn't really matter if we leave or not, they'll still be in control!!

Mr Salmond is the one turning Scots against each other.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Its not about the scots, its about further enslaving the poor....the polititans are mearly unknowing puppets, the rich pull the stings, 'money' as we know it is on the way out...and when it goes the puppets will be left high and dry!

No polititian can be trusted, they all are liars for the rich and powerful few!

Our government is a vicious tyrant, that treats its own people worse than anyone...they“ll NEVER allow the poor of this country to be equal...

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"Its not about the scots, its about further enslaving the poor....the polititans are mearly unknowing puppets, the rich pull the stings, 'money' as we know it is on the way out...and when it goes the puppets will be left high and dry!

No polititian can be trusted, they all are liars for the rich and powerful few!

Our government is a vicious tyrant, that treats its own people worse than anyone...they“ll NEVER allow the poor of this country to be equal..."

When you say 'our' government , which one do you mean? The one in Holyrood or the one in Westminster?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There only is one...scotland has no power at all

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"There only is one...scotland has no power at all

That will come as a surprise and shock to those hiding out in the Canongate bus station.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Everyone answers to the crown...that's english, that's where the buck stops with britain!

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

The uk is the 4th most unequal society in the world. For a 'rich' country with food banks and 1 in 4 kids in poverty is a disgrace. The rich look after the rich. The Tory way. I'm 36 and the Tories have been in power for over half my life yet Scotland has never voted Tory.

How is that right?

The union doesn't work for Scotland, and like many things in the world that simply do not work, will be removed in due course. It's a natural progression.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Do we remember why WE entered the Union in 1707? Scottish financial mismanagement with the Darius expedition. We were broke, like it or not the Union bailed US out. Good god people still hark on about 1314 and Bannockburn and English oppression and injustice yadda yadda.........we are just as bad and should look at ourselves first before pointing fingers.

After working down south for 15 years I came back to work in Glasgow for a year 3 years ago. I was shocked how backwards we were, catholics against Prods and vice versa, nobody would do things for another not in their mindset. East coast against West coast. It was like going back to "life on mars" in the 70s. NOT AN EXPERIENCE I WOULD WISH TO REPEAT. We can be so small minded as a country and a people, no different to the Auld Enemy we perceive.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"Do we remember why WE entered the Union in 1707? Scottish financial mismanagement with the Darius expedition. We were broke, like it or not the Union bailed US out. Good god people still hark on about 1314 and Bannockburn and English oppression and injustice yadda yadda.........we are just as bad and should look at ourselves first before pointing fingers.

But who exactly is it talking about 1314? I never hear anything like it during this campaign! People are looking forward not backwards. The most common misconception, apart from the 'England subsidises Scotland' myth, is that this is an anti English movement. That yes voters are banging on about the past. It's simply not the case at all.

I agree that we have a lot of problems in Scotland. So why is the status quo the answer? Part of the problem is that hasn't really grown up. We are like the 40 years old living with our parents. It's not natural. The next generation of kids should grow up in a country which makes it's own decisions, right or wrong. I am certain you will see a maturity growing in us as a society.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

2014 was chosen precisely because its 700 years since Bannockburn.

The fact the commemorative events have had to be cancelled (moved?) cos more people wish to attend Armed Forces Day is telling.

All that's missing is all those 'Clan Chiefs' coming back from Texas or Tasmania striding up the High Street, dressed like chookies, proclaiming "I've come home, I've come home ".

Twats.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Except they're not our natural parents, they kidnapped us, they should let us go!

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"Except they're not our natural parents, they kidnapped us, they should let us go! "

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, it's not an angle that helps. The reasons behind the start of the union are in the past and irrelevant. And no one needs to let us go. This is in our hands. And I don't have any problem with the English whatsoever. They are free to vote Tory if they wish. My problem is that this system doesn't represent Scotland's needs. If we were so similar then we vote similarly and we'd never have heard of Nigel Farage. But we are not the same.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"Except they're not our natural parents, they kidnapped us, they should let us go!

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, it's not an angle that helps. The reasons behind the start of the union are in the past and irrelevant....... "

ie that doesn't suit your case so you'll ignore it.

lololololol

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"ie that doesn't suit your case so you'll ignore it.

lololololol"

Ok go on tell me, how does what happened in 1707 have any relevance to today. I'm thinking about my children and future generations growing up in a country where we make decisions for ourselves and we feel inferiority to no one. What has 300 years ago have to do with anything?

(And for the impartial observers, this guy is one the side of those who think yes voters live in the past)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If Scotland doesn't manage to regain it's freedom this year then we are doomed to perpetual tory rule from Westminster. There are a lot of people resident in Scotland that delight in being ruled by posh davie from london, god knows why, the ssouth has never had Scotlands interests.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"If Scotland doesn't manage to regain it's freedom this year then we are doomed to perpetual tory rule from Westminster. There are a lot of people resident in Scotland that delight in being ruled by posh davie from london, god knows why, the ssouth has never had Scotlands interests."

Agreed. We will win it though. But if we don't, the 40-45% of yes voters aren't going to vanish. They are going to continue. And the perpetual Tory government will end up persuading a few more. There is only one way the trend is going. It surprises me the number of people that can't see this. But make no mistake, if we don't take it now, we are in serious bother for the next few years. And we can't complain as we basically invited it.

There is a "Wings over Scotland" article on this called "join the dots" and it's scary reading.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

Perpetual Tory rule? How does that come about?

There's a very good chance of a Labour victory in 2015 although perhaps not with an outright majority.

If a few more people stopped wasting their votes on the 'can't possibly win' parties (like the SNP, the Greens, the Monster Raving Loony and other no-hopers) we could well have an outright majority.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Perpetual Tory rule? How does that come about?

There's a very good chance of a Labour victory in 2015 although perhaps not with an outright majority.

If a few more people stopped wasting their votes on the 'can't possibly win' parties (like the SNP, the Greens, the Monster Raving Loony and other no-hopers) we could well have an outright majority."

The problem with this sort of talk is you allow your rabid hatred if the snp to cloud your logic.

The snp, the party you just labelled "no hopers" won by an absolute landslide in the last election. When people insult Salmond or the snp they actually insult the democratic decision of thousands of voters in Scotland without thinking they are doing anything wrong. That's fine, you are entitled to your opinion. But you can hardly call the party who won by a majority "no hopers" and expect to be taken seriously.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

A labour party based in westminster? With it's puppet on a string party run by the lammont here in SCOTLAND? The labour party has never given a hoot about Scotland apart from getting votes to enable it to keep on slurping up the cash down south. I was born in a labour run part of this country, and after god only knows how many decades of them running it they successfully made it a perfect dump.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

Perpetual Tory rule? How does that come about?

There's a very good chance of a Labour victory in 2015 although perhaps not with an outright majority.

If a few more people stopped wasting their votes on the 'can't possibly win' parties (like the SNP, the Greens, the Monster Raving Loony and other no-hopers) we could well have an outright majority.

The problem with this sort of talk is you allow your rabid hatred if the snp to cloud your logic.

There's nothing flawed in my logic.

I don't hate the SNP. I hate what they stand for and the vision of Scotland they'd impose - I suspect most Scots do too.

We'll see come September. There's only one poll which counts.

BTW. As I recall, the 'absolute landslide' of which you speak was in terms of seats - not votes. It's votes they'll be counting this time.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

If you don't like what the snp are offering in their manifesto, why not vote for the Labour Party in the post independence 2016 elections? Unless you actually think that British labour and ed milliband is the answer to the many problems Scotland currently faces. Do you think they have Scotland's needs at heart?

We can afford independence. Scotland will become a true democracy, we can CREATE whichever society the people want. What is so bad about that?

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"If you don't like what the snp are offering in their manifesto, why not vote for the Labour Party in the post independence 2016 elections? Unless you actually think that British labour and ed milliband is the answer to the many problems Scotland currently faces. Do you think they have Scotland's needs at heart?

We can afford independence. Scotland will become a true democracy, we can CREATE whichever society the people want. What is so bad about that?"

I think we're Better Together. It's as straightforward as that.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Yup, we are so better together, england has a nice place to dump atomic bombs while we are better under westminster control . There is nothing that is better when you are ruled by the torys from the south, even if on the remote chance miliband and his labour party actually get themselves elected then Scotland will still be run from westminster , things don't get much more sad than perpetual rule by the South

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

Ok. So the fact that 1 in 4 kids live in poverty in a nation that has 781 unelected people in the House of Lords making over a hundred thousand a year tax free doesn't bother you?

What about food banks in a nation where we can afford weapons which will only ever be fired a few moments before we are all obliterated?

What about the fact that free education doesn't exist in England? Free education! When you charge for education you create a viscous circle of poverty because only the educated can get the money and only the well off can get educated. How obscene is that? Without independence that will come to scotland.

Are you happy with all that? You don't see any benefit in bringing government to the country being governed? How are we better together???

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Nobody who claims to be Scottish and has Scotlands interests at heart would ever wish for Scotland to be ruled from westminster by the likes of posh davie, cleggie the cardboard cutout or the boy miliband. Not even england wants to be subject to the whims of those 3 and their chums

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Hello Duncan2004,

How is Mr Salmond going to be able to fund your utopia, or his successors for decades to come?

The situation in Scotland will not be any better than it is now should you get independence. Where is the money going to come from?

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about education? It is not only the wealthy in Britain who have the opportunity to get a good education if they have the necessary academic capabilities. Mr Blair started the nonsense that everyone should have a university education which is a illogical, but that is how we have degrees in the most inane and inappropriate subjects. That is why universities need so much money.

Alec

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"Hello Duncan2004,

How is Mr Salmond going to be able to fund your utopia, or his successors for decades to come?

The situation in Scotland will not be any better than it is now should you get independence. Where is the money going to come from?

Alec

Hi Alec,

Firstly, I wouldn't descibe a country where everyone who wishes an education can have one and one where we don't have the obscenity that is nuclear weapons or unelected lords earning fat wads of our money as a "utopia." I would describe that as normal, modern country.

Where is the money going to come from? Same place is comes from now. Tax payers. There is enough money generated at the moment from Scotland without help or subsidy from anywhere else, and surely we would maximise our potential by altering policy to suit Scottish needs and cutting off the snouts in the trough from Westminster.

You mention Blair. Blair is a war criminal who took us to Iraq because they "had WMD." But they didn't. But we did. And Scotland OPPOSED it. An utter obscenity.

I, and many many people in this country aspire to a little more than this. And it CAN be done.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Well said Duncan, i think that in a few years after Scotland regains it's independence then the north of england , sick of being the subject of misrule and having been bled dry from westminster , will vote to come join us.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"Well said Duncan, i think that in a few years after Scotland regains it's independence then the north of england , sick of being the subject of misrule and having been bled dry from westminster , will vote to come join us. "

I am certain this will be a positive move for England. Politics is in a mire. Blue or red you get the same old crap. In Scotland it's worse because we vote red or yellow and get blue anyway.

I honestly believe that the mere fact that independence isn't forgone conclusion is exactly why we need it! Where is our belief in ourselves? It will come back though.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"..... And it CAN be done. "

But it WON'T be.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If you ever believe anything that posh davie says, in a few years time he will hold a referendum on whether to be in Europe or not, if Scotland is still subject to rule by Westminster and the english vote to come out, we will be forced out as well, better together? My arse

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

But it WON'T be."

Great contribution again, mate.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

But it WON'T be.

Great contribution again, mate. "

I had to do something to stop the Duncan to Duncan love-in.

Repeating the same pish doesn't make it true (but I know that won't stop either of you).

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

If you are struggling with the debate, bow out. But don't perpetuate the better together stance of popping up every so often and shouting "naw ye cannae" and running away.

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By *etitmortCouple over a year ago

ipswich

This independent Scotland sounds a wonderful place. So much so that I reckon there will be a massive influx of English and their immigrants moving up there. Could be a very different country a decade from now!

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"If you are struggling with the debate, bow out. But don't perpetuate the better together stance of popping up every so often and shouting "naw ye cannae" and running away."

If I were to shout anything it would "of course you can, but you really don't want to".

As I've said before, I have complete confidence that the people of Scotland will come to the correct decision and that this nonsense will be kicked into the long grass for another 300 years.

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By *uncan20004Man over a year ago

Glasgow

"This independent Scotland sounds a wonderful place. So much so that I reckon there will be a massive influx of English and their immigrants moving up there. Could be a very different country a decade from now!"

Great! They will be made very welcome.

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By *etitmortCouple over a year ago

ipswich

Great! They will be made very welcome. "

And the Scots will end up a minority .....and they'll be another referendum......

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By *b430Man over a year ago

Tayside

Freedom!!!!

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By *its_n_piecesCouple over a year ago

the english would be too soft to survive that far north

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Of course I am. There is only one way the wind is blowing and those who don't see it are either not living here, or have little interest in the debate.

As I've stated already, not only is this a great thing for Scottish labour (as they are gradually admitting) but also for the stagnating politics of the rest of the UK.

Had a quick glance at "assets Scotland " I thought it was a little more than cheeky listing the Trident delivery system and nuclear warheads when the SNP have said they have no wish to keep them

Also ....debt .....UK debt is over £1000 billion that is without the debt and guaranties relating to RBS , HBOS etc

Then it is closer to £2500 billion

You are welcome to your fair share

Also oil at the moment it is a UK asset , therefore I take it the oil reserves are split with the remainder of the UK should there be a yes vote

I'd advise you to look further on asset Scotland. They release figures every day the point to amount and value of our assets around the world.

Your analogies made me laugh mate

Oil is flowing not waiting to be found any future territorial water boundaries are already in dispute there are months if not years of negotiations to be completed. I doubt very much they will be as simple as you or asset Scotland think . Unless you intend to send trident back to us war head 1st lol

All academic till after the vote anyway

One last point .... Climate change may turn Scotland back into an ice sheet so vote wisely !

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