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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Unions are only as strong as their members,if the members choose to fold and roll over the unions are powerless.
However if they have the bottle to stand up for themselves the unions can then back them up.
Unison and Usdaw (the shop workers union)are what is known as "sweetheart unions" by the GMB,TGW(Unite) etc.
Meaning that they're in bed with the management and don't represent the interests of the work force.
One of the biggest problems unions face is when members fail to report a grievance early enough.
By this lack of commitment they put the unions in a position were they are too late to support them.
Then the apathetic members moan about unions not helping them forever after.
I speak as a senior shop steward and H.S +W rep of 20 years standing. T
XXX
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I have talked to my union thru out my problems and as yet they have failed me and many like me.
the apathy lies with them and not with the members .
Money for nowt in my eyes  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Unions are only as strong as their members,if the members choose to fold and roll over the unions are powerless.
However if they have the bottle to stand up for themselves the unions can then back them up.
Unison and Usdaw (the shop workers union)are what is known as "sweetheart unions" by the GMB,TGW(Unite) etc.
Meaning that they're in bed with the management and don't represent the interests of the work force.
One of the biggest problems unions face is when members fail to report a grievance early enough.
By this lack of commitment they put the unions in a position were they are too late to support them.
Then the apathetic members moan about unions not helping them forever after.
I speak as a senior shop steward and H.S +W rep of 20 years standing. T
XXX
"
Couldn't agree with you more!
I've had members call me the day before a disciplinary hearing asking me to represent them and are annoyed I can't get to the other end of the country immediately! When I've phoned management for a postponement they've said no as it had been delayed several times before! 
Last week we had a two day strike: on the picket line one member said she supported the strike her husband was out at another site but she was going into work as they needed the money!!  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Unions are only as strong as their members,if the members choose to fold and roll over the unions are powerless.
However if they have the bottle to stand up for themselves the unions can then back them up.
Unison and Usdaw (the shop workers union)are what is known as "sweetheart unions" by the GMB,TGW(Unite) etc.
Meaning that they're in bed with the management and don't represent the interests of the work force.
One of the biggest problems unions face is when members fail to report a grievance early enough.
By this lack of commitment they put the unions in a position were they are too late to support them.
Then the apathetic members moan about unions not helping them forever after.
I speak as a senior shop steward and H.S +W rep of 20 years standing. T
XXX
Couldn't agree with you more!
I've had members call me the day before a disciplinary hearing asking me to represent them and are annoyed I can't get to the other end of the country immediately! When I've phoned management for a postponement they've said no as it had been delayed several times before!
Last week we had a two day strike: on the picket line one member said she supported the strike her husband was out at another site but she was going into work as they needed the money!! "
Totally agree ,
the apathy shown by some if not 80% of members is bad but mine is not but makes no difference .
They still dont give a damn |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Unions are only as strong as their members,if the members choose to fold and roll over the unions are powerless.
However if they have the bottle to stand up for themselves the unions can then back them up.
Unison and Usdaw (the shop workers union)are what is known as "sweetheart unions" by the GMB,TGW(Unite) etc.
Meaning that they're in bed with the management and don't represent the interests of the work force.
One of the biggest problems unions face is when members fail to report a grievance early enough.
By this lack of commitment they put the unions in a position were they are too late to support them.
Then the apathetic members moan about unions not helping them forever after.
I speak as a senior shop steward and H.S +W rep of 20 years standing. T
XXX
its funny how this post started as a union bashing post,and now a big u-turn.i am in unite and have a lot of respect for union officials,but in particular,for lay reps who give up their own time for free,for very little thanks.and for people who moan about their union...YOU...are the union.YOU make your own decisions within your rule book and your officials are obliged to back you."Unions are only as strong as their members"
"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have talked to my union thru out my problems and as yet they have failed me and many like me.
the apathy lies with them and not with the members .
Money for nowt in my eyes "
Which only proves what I said about Unison.
However,you can't tar all unions with the same brush.
XXX |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Im not in one at all yippeee  "
Thats whats amusing about many people who contact me for help and advice.
They're not in the union but, when the shit hits the fan,expect the same help and advice that my members pay for.
Whats more,they also want/expect the same benefits that union members fight for and win on their behalf.
Never have I had a non member say to me "I don't want that pay rise/better conditions because I'm not in the union".
XXX |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Im not in one at all yippeee
Thats whats amusing about many people who contact me for help and advice.
They're not in the union but, when the shit hits the fan,expect the same help and advice that my members pay for.
Whats more,they also want/expect the same benefits that union members fight for and win on their behalf.
Never have I had a non member say to me "I don't want that pay rise/better conditions because I'm not in the union".
excellent point.many non union members enjoy terms and conditions improved by union involvement.and they never appreciate or admit it.
XXX"
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By *ovefun2Couple
over a year ago
wakefield |
absolutly first class contributions her folks , but .............. there is no such thing as a "sweetheart" union , usdaw works which a vastly more variyed type of employer than ANY OTHER UNION ,it is also the only union in which memership is not in decline ,unite is a combination of a few unions
its unions like usdaw , t&g , unite etc that have succeded in giving the working people more rights than they have had for many years , min wage , max working wk , etc , and yes ...sumtimes union officials have to tell members that wot they want is unrealistic syumthing sum dont want to hear .
by the way companys with union agreement got an adverage pay increases last year of 2.3% againts an adverage of just 1% in non union commpanys
so been in a union does work ... which ever union it is ,, as long as its regognized in ur workplace |
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Many so called "white collar" unions are composed of a membership to a large degree from management grades. This means that these members dare not do or say anything against higher management as in these days of management intimidation, personal threats, black listing not only for promotions, but for sackings and redundancies are very real issues. Gone are the days of consensus with Unions. Managements these days can and do, do what they want. All of a sudden people ARE being sacked for the slightest of excuses, which has been unheard of before now. It started of with Thatcher's Union bashing, but it has carried on and is even worse now than it was then. Add to this that Union reps are usually staff members; they are also in fear of their jobs. It has been anti Union legislation which has started restricting the ability for them to be useful to members, and now this has followed on to make it worse.
By design, it is rapidly receding into a state not enjoyed by the "top business classes" since the Industrial Revolution. Middle Managers already have Contracts which are open ended hours wise, so they can be called upon to work any hours required. Lower grades are rapidly following and it is only their relative Union strength which is there to resist it. The more apathetic workers there are that think that Unions don't do anything for them, then the more that Top management will get away with and the less they will be able to do for them.
Most people don't even realise what Unions have been doing for them behind the scenes. Some think that the Union can get them out of some trouble which would be impossible.
What has to be remembered is that if it wasn't for Unions, we would all be working 16 hr days, 6 days a week, with no holidays or sick pay, or pensions, and would only be able to keep a job down as long as the employer can shag your wife and daughter whenever he felt like it. That is what is was like in the Industrial Revolution.
The only reason we have any standard of living is because it has literally been wrung out of employers due to worker revolt and Unionism. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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the problem is unions dont have the same bite as they used to. and no offence guys but if you are a woman there is even less help.
i come from a strong family of trade unionists and it was drummed into my head from an early age as soon as you start working you join a union and the one time i needed help from them i got nowhere and had to do everythin myself. xx |
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By *ovefun2Couple
over a year ago
wakefield |
cash cow for the labour party ?
who pays for the consevatives ? lords and peers who dont even live in the uk ,, company bossess who want to de regulate working hrs and scrap the minimum wage etc
union members can opt out of contributing to the labour party if they wish to
woman have far more rights , extended maturnity leave ,discrimination rights etc than ever before
there are now more aplications to employment tribunals than ever before for unfair / constructive dissmissal , discrimination etc
unions also fund personnel injurys claims on a free basis
HOWEVER....... the first step in taking action , must come from the member , no good having a problem and not raising it then blaming the union for doing nothing
im 30 years i no of no one who has sufferred a detriment in using company procedures in raising a formal complaint , it is aginst employment law , Trade Union and labour relations act, ( t.u.l.a)as well as the employment rights act 1998
JOIN A UNION
STAND UP FOR UR RIGHTS
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Thankfully not a member of a trade union anymore, was a member of the old Cohse and then it merged to become Unison. But I have always felt that unions are just a bunch of militant communists. You only have to look at what happens in the DWP who go on strike every few months, ditto the Royal Mail. Best thing would be to get rid of trade unions, throw back to ancient history and if folk don't want to work sack them, and get people in who do. |
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"if folk don't want to work sack them, and get people in who do"
It's because of your outdated attitude that Unions were introduced, sadly, “some” employers are reverting back to that old attitude “if you don't like it, there's the door” |
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Really interesting topic.
As a fairly recently ex union officer I agree with what others have said. A union is only as strong as it's members. When I went in to negotiate with senior managers what gave me strength was the members behind me.
People may think that union's have no power these days, but that's simply not true. I have worked across numerous companies and sectors of the economy over the years and have won improved terms and conditions time and time again with our members.
Unions can and do make a difference.... maximum working time, unfair dismissal legislation, paid holidays, minimum wage, part time and agency worker's rights, maternity and paternity rights, improved health and safety and equality laws to name but a few. All of this legislation was fought for and won by unions.
Add to that the improved terms and conditions that on average unionsed workers still receive, such as higher pay, better terms and conditions, being less likely to lose their job, 50% less likely to lose your life or have a serious injury at work and being more likely to be consulted about changes.
Unionsed worker's have a voice at work and if your union is not delivering then the answer isn't to just moan about or to leave but to change it.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"if folk don't want to work sack them, and get people in who do
It's because of your outdated attitude that Unions were introduced, sadly, “some” employers are reverting back to that old attitude “if you don't like it, there's the door” "
But they can afford to adopt that attitude - there are plenty people looking for work, and tbh, I agree with it.
If you don't want to work - there's the door.
"Hello Mr New Employee and welcome to our company"
Half the problems of this country today were caused by trade unions holding us by the balls.
The pitmen didn't want to dig coal, so we get it from Poland and all our pits are closed
The shipyards didn't want to build ships, so the Koreans kindly took over doing the job and our shipyards are gone.
The car workers didn't want to make cars, wey hey said the Japs, we'll do it, and they did, a lot better than we ever did ...
All this militant behaviour backed and probably instigated by unions ..... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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the triumphs fought and won by unions arent always welcomed by employers and your arse can be discretly shoved out the door if you ask for somethin that you legally entitled to.
i asked for flexible working when it became law and fought tooth and nail with my employers for it and ended up bringing unison in which was a total waste of time as they basically told me if my employer didnt want to give it there was nothin i could do.
my working life got made that bad i ended up off with stress and every move i made back at work was faulted to the point i left. again brung in unison and was told to take the money they offered me when all i wanted was an apology.xx |
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Unions are useful..and I think they are definately needed...needed when it comes to sticking up for and fighting for workers rights, however..its not their role to use they wieght as political tools...why do the attend things like Race demos by the EDL or the ban the bomb brigade..they sould stick to what they were set up to do.
And...instead of costing people money by calling them out on stirike, all they have to due to get the point across to the labour party is withhold their income (from the union subs)..but they wont, will they... |
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"
"Hello Mr New Employee and welcome to our company"
Half the problems of this country today were caused by trade unions holding us by the balls.
The pitmen didn't want to dig coal, so we get it from Poland and all our pits are closed
The shipyards didn't want to build ships, so the Koreans kindly took over doing the job and our shipyards are gone.
The car workers didn't want to make cars, wey hey said the Japs, we'll do it, and they did, a lot better than we ever did ...
All this militant behaviour backed and probably instigated by unions ....."
Labour Costs.....the real reason behind Coal from Poland....Steel from India....Cars from Slovakia....Ships from South Korea....
The average hourly rate for a worker on a Polish coal face is less than two thirds of our minimum wage.
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"if folk don't want to work sack them, and get people in who do
It's because of your outdated attitude that Unions were introduced, sadly, “some” employers are reverting back to that old attitude “if you don't like it, there's the door”
But they can afford to adopt that attitude - there are plenty people looking for work, and tbh, I agree with it.
If you don't want to work - there's the door.
"Hello Mr New Employee and welcome to our company"
Half the problems of this country today were caused by trade unions holding us by the balls.
The pitmen didn't want to dig coal, so we get it from Poland and all our pits are closed
The shipyards didn't want to build ships, so the Koreans kindly took over doing the job and our shipyards are gone.
The car workers didn't want to make cars, wey hey said the Japs, we'll do it, and they did, a lot better than we ever did ...
All this militant behaviour backed and probably instigated by unions ....."
There's a lot of talk about people who "don't want to work". Apart from a small minority this is total bollocks.
1. It isn't a matter of "don't want to work" It is a matter of "not prepared to have my hard won conditions ripped up and some monkey employed instead of me for half the money and no pension / sick provisions / for more contracted hours etc.
2. Pitmen didn't want to work?? Bollocks. They didn't go on strike for a year because they didn't want to work. They struck because the Thatcher scum millionaire cronies were set on closing the pits. They fought for their jobs. Huh! It's only right wing hatred of every concession that Unions have wrung out of the moneyed classes over the last hundred years that set the Thatcherite scum on a Union breaking course which took the rest of industry down the tubes with it. They didn't care about this because they had their cash and could cash in on the new oriental and eastern European markets to make even more cash. They aren't British, they are out for themselves only.
3. Same for the shipyards.
4, Same for the car industry. Yes there was much unrest in the car industry which was levelled at the unions, but it was totally management fault in the first place. It was management that didn't manage shift working and quality control and it was management that failed to invest and was complacent. It was management that took all the profits and pocketed them. The last example of this being the scandalous situation with MG Rover where the bosses pocketed millions leaving the company to founder. the Japs only do it better as they invest, copy, learn and have far more integrity between management and workers. They also have better quality control. All management issues. And actually I don't think they do do it better than we ever did. That is just not true.
You can't level all the blame at the door of the Unions when Management have been a total disaster across the board with selfish short term get rich quick policies and to hell with what happens to the company when they have had their golden handshakes and million pound severances. All Unions want is decent conditions for workers and the diabolical attitude of managements have made conflicts inevitable.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Unions don't carry much power these days, anyone with an employment issue would be much better off having ½ hour free with an employment lawyer."
The only time they don't have power is if the members are apathetic.
As I said earlier and others have said also,a union is only as strong as its members,the members are the union.
Remember the old saying "The workers united will never be defeated"?
Whats the point in paying for an employment lawyer when you can get advice and lawyers for free if your in a union? 
XXX |
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"Whats the point in paying for an employment lawyer when you can get advice and lawyers for free if your in a union? "
If you're one person in a workforce of 100 employees with no shop steward, then being a member of a union is pointless, I know from my own experience, the only time a union want to become involved is a) if an accident occurs through the companies negligence b) if one is disciplined / dismissed and the company has disregarded legislation, I stand by what I posted, ½ hour with an employment lawyer is ½ well spent. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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great forum.can i make 2 points.
1; i agree.if you are 1 worker in a workforce of 100.and you are the only union member,you ARE wasting your time.UNLESS....you organise your collegues to form a chapel(group of union members)strength in numbers people.
2; Half the problems of this country today were caused by trade unions holding us by the balls.
The pitmen didn't want to dig coal, so we get it from Poland and all our pits are closed
The shipyards didn't want to build ships, so the Koreans kindly took over doing the job and our shipyards are gone.
The car workers didn't want to make cars, wey hey said the Japs, we'll do it, and they did, a lot better than we ever did ...
All this militant behaviour backed and probably instigated by unions .....
oh my fu**ing god.i have never,ever,ever heard such tosh. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Obviously you don't remember the 70's when the electricity was turned off on a rota syatem because the pitmen wouldn't dig coal to fuel the power stations
or the days when British Leyland were on strike because they didn't have a long enough tea break
Or the days when Tyneside made the best ships in the world, but lost out to the Koreans because they never got ships completed on time because they were always going on bloody strike
I remember it well |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Obviously you don't remember the 70's when the electricity was turned off on a rota syatem because the pitmen wouldn't dig coal to fuel the power stations
or the days when British Leyland were on strike because they didn't have a long enough tea break
Or the days when Tyneside made the best ships in the world, but lost out to the Koreans because they never got ships completed on time because they were always going on bloody strike
I remember it well"
You've forgotten the steelworkers and railway workers  |
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