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Inspiration from DV thread.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Ok. As you can see from my last post on that thread t got he thing about DV against men.
1. Anyone who hits/hurts a woman is classed as lowest of the low, but if a guy is genuinely getting beat up. What is the minimum/maximum they are allowed to do to prevent themselves from getting hurt further?
2. Is man handling (in a non sexual way) and being violent the same thing? |
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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago
Over the rainbow, under the bridge |
"Ok. As you can see from my last post on that thread t got he thing about DV against men.
1. Anyone who hits/hurts a woman is classed as lowest of the low, but if a guy is genuinely getting beat up. What is the minimum/maximum they are allowed to do to prevent themselves from getting hurt further?
2. Is man handling (in a non sexual way) and being violent the same thing? "
When you mean manhandling what in particular do you have in mind? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Ok. As you can see from my last post on that thread t got he thing about DV against men.
1. Anyone who hits/hurts a woman is classed as lowest of the low, but if a guy is genuinely getting beat up. What is the minimum/maximum they are allowed to do to prevent themselves from getting hurt further?
2. Is man handling (in a non sexual way) and being violent the same thing?
When you mean manhandling what in particular do you have in mind?"
Not punching/slapping/hitting/maybe a push at best. You see it all the time on tv. A couple who are long term partners. One day the most decent bloke in the world confronts the woman who has betrayed him. Now the 2 scenarios. One has the woman is trying to apologise and say sorry, etc. the bloke grabs her hand and throws it away and uses to much strength doing so the woman is on the floor or another one is. He grabs her by the arm (hard enough so she can't escape, but not hard enough to cause pain) and drags her and literally throws her outside via one throw. Basically just to say get off my property/out of my life. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
I think men are in a particularly difficult position when defending themselves against women attacking them. It could so easily be interpreted as the man attacking the woman.
Yes, they should be able to defend themselves and it may need to be in a similar way to dealing with children attacking you. That may require some restraint and training. For all of us.
I think the bigger issue is that the men have to get out of the psychological abuse that causes them to stay and then to be able to speak up and out about what has happened.
As with all abuse as long as it is hidden people will be happy to turn a blind eye to it.
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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago
Over the rainbow, under the bridge |
That is violence regardless of who does it. If it continues then it is domestic violence because of the potential results which can be either physical, psychological or both. |
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"Ok. As you can see from my last post on that thread t got he thing about DV against men.
1. Anyone who hits/hurts a woman is classed as lowest of the low, but if a guy is genuinely getting beat up. What is the minimum/maximum they are allowed to do to prevent themselves from getting hurt further?
2. Is man handling (in a non sexual way) and being violent the same thing?
When you mean manhandling what in particular do you have in mind?
Not punching/slapping/hitting/maybe a push at best. You see it all the time on tv. A couple who are long term partners. One day the most decent bloke in the world confronts the woman who has betrayed him. Now the 2 scenarios. One has the woman is trying to apologise and say sorry, etc. the bloke grabs her hand and throws it away and uses to much strength doing so the woman is on the floor or another one is. He grabs her by the arm (hard enough so she can't escape, but not hard enough to cause pain) and drags her and literally throws her outside via one throw. Basically just to say get off my property/out of my life. "
That was violence. Nothing less. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"That is violence regardless of who does it. If it continues then it is domestic violence because of the potential results which can be either physical, psychological or both."
Even though all violence is wrong is that sort of acceptable. If its just a one off? Would you think less of a bloke of you saw it being done, even by someone you knew? |
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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago
Over the rainbow, under the bridge |
"The police would say, restraint is in order if being attacked by a woman."
I was told by an officer that if you think you are in danger of being hit then you can use reasonable force to prevent it and that could be hitting the person who is potentially about to attack you if you think it will stop them. Now, whether that is an admissible defence in court I wouldn't know. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I think men are in a particularly difficult position when defending themselves against women attacking them. It could so easily be interpreted as the man attacking the woman.
Yes, they should be able to defend themselves and it may need to be in a similar way to dealing with children attacking you. That may require some restraint and training. For all of us.
I think the bigger issue is that the men have to get out of the psychological abuse that causes them to stay and then to be able to speak up and out about what has happened.
As with all abuse as long as it is hidden people will be happy to turn a blind eye to it.
"
I will never turn a blind eye to anything. If I suspect something is up. I will make sure the other person knows I am there for them. |
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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago
Over the rainbow, under the bridge |
"That is violence regardless of who does it. If it continues then it is domestic violence because of the potential results which can be either physical, psychological or both.
Even though all violence is wrong is that sort of acceptable. If its just a one off? Would you think less of a bloke of you saw it being done, even by someone you knew? "
I would think less of anyone male or female if they are violent to the point of hurting someone - except in the case of self-defence. But in that case force must be 'reasonable' enough only for defence and not beating the crap out of someone. It's all about context. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"The police would say, restraint is in order if being attacked by a woman.
I was told by an officer that if you think you are in danger of being hit then you can use reasonable force to prevent it and that could be hitting the person who is potentially about to attack you if you think it will stop them. Now, whether that is an admissible defence in court I wouldn't know."
I think it would depend on the damage the "victim" caused and what the dangers were in that situation. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"That is violence regardless of who does it. If it continues then it is domestic violence because of the potential results which can be either physical, psychological or both.
Even though all violence is wrong is that sort of acceptable. If its just a one off? Would you think less of a bloke of you saw it being done, even by someone you knew?
I would think less of anyone male or female if they are violent to the point of hurting someone - except in the case of self-defence. But in that case force must be 'reasonable' enough only for defence and not beating the crap out of someone. It's all about context. "
That's what this thread is all about. I agree that going out to hurt them whether its physical or psychological once as in one hit/slap or verbal abuse is just as wrong as doing it many times as to uncalled for. However is getting someone away from you whether its your property or you as a person. Is that acceptable, if the emotions are high and would you think any less if you saw someone do it? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think men are in a particularly difficult position when defending themselves against women attacking them. It could so easily be interpreted as the man attacking the woman.
Yes, they should be able to defend themselves and it may need to be in a similar way to dealing with children attacking you. That may require some restraint and training. For all of us.
I think the bigger issue is that the men have to get out of the psychological abuse that causes them to stay and then to be able to speak up and out about what has happened.
As with all abuse as long as it is hidden people will be happy to turn a blind eye to it.
I will never turn a blind eye to anything. If I suspect something is up. I will make sure the other person knows I am there for them. "
That's good. But be aware it's not always a good idea to do it in front of the abuser. It could make the abuse worse. A quiet word giving your support to just the abused person would be better. |
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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago
Over the rainbow, under the bridge |
"That is violence regardless of who does it. If it continues then it is domestic violence because of the potential results which can be either physical, psychological or both.
Even though all violence is wrong is that sort of acceptable. If its just a one off? Would you think less of a bloke of you saw it being done, even by someone you knew?
I would think less of anyone male or female if they are violent to the point of hurting someone - except in the case of self-defence. But in that case force must be 'reasonable' enough only for defence and not beating the crap out of someone. It's all about context.
That's what this thread is all about. I agree that going out to hurt them whether its physical or psychological once as in one hit/slap or verbal abuse is just as wrong as doing it many times as to uncalled for. However is getting someone away from you whether its your property or you as a person. Is that acceptable, if the emotions are high and would you think any less if you saw someone do it? "
I don't think the law would appreciate you getting someone away from your property using violence. Self-defence is a different matter. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"That is violence regardless of who does it. If it continues then it is domestic violence because of the potential results which can be either physical, psychological or both.
Even though all violence is wrong is that sort of acceptable. If its just a one off? Would you think less of a bloke of you saw it being done, even by someone you knew?
I would think less of anyone male or female if they are violent to the point of hurting someone - except in the case of self-defence. But in that case force must be 'reasonable' enough only for defence and not beating the crap out of someone. It's all about context.
That's what this thread is all about. I agree that going out to hurt them whether its physical or psychological once as in one hit/slap or verbal abuse is just as wrong as doing it many times as to uncalled for. However is getting someone away from you whether its your property or you as a person. Is that acceptable, if the emotions are high and would you think any less if you saw someone do it?
I don't think the law would appreciate you getting someone away from your property using violence. Self-defence is a different matter. "
I think that's kind of the question though. Or the way I read it. What constitutes self defence. Can it be seen as violence. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"I think men are in a particularly difficult position when defending themselves against women attacking them. It could so easily be interpreted as the man attacking the woman.
Yes, they should be able to defend themselves and it may need to be in a similar way to dealing with children attacking you. That may require some restraint and training. For all of us.
I think the bigger issue is that the men have to get out of the psychological abuse that causes them to stay and then to be able to speak up and out about what has happened.
As with all abuse as long as it is hidden people will be happy to turn a blind eye to it.
I will never turn a blind eye to anything. If I suspect something is up. I will make sure the other person knows I am there for them.
That's good. But be aware it's not always a good idea to do it in front of the abuser. It could make the abuse worse. A quiet word giving your support to just the abused person would be better. "
Well if I suspected that, but both people pretended it was good. I would make a jokey remark. Saying how close I felt with them both and if one mis treated the other. I would ditch the other one for life. Obviously I would re word it better though. If it was just me and the "victim". I would have quiet words and say if there's anything wrong. I am here. Again I will throw other examples into it. So they don't know what it is I am going on about. |
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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago
Over the rainbow, under the bridge |
"That is violence regardless of who does it. If it continues then it is domestic violence because of the potential results which can be either physical, psychological or both.
Even though all violence is wrong is that sort of acceptable. If its just a one off? Would you think less of a bloke of you saw it being done, even by someone you knew?
I would think less of anyone male or female if they are violent to the point of hurting someone - except in the case of self-defence. But in that case force must be 'reasonable' enough only for defence and not beating the crap out of someone. It's all about context.
That's what this thread is all about. I agree that going out to hurt them whether its physical or psychological once as in one hit/slap or verbal abuse is just as wrong as doing it many times as to uncalled for. However is getting someone away from you whether its your property or you as a person. Is that acceptable, if the emotions are high and would you think any less if you saw someone do it?
I don't think the law would appreciate you getting someone away from your property using violence. Self-defence is a different matter.
I think that's kind of the question though. Or the way I read it. What constitutes self defence. Can it be seen as violence. "
In legal terms it is such a grey area. If you cause actual bodily harm then you can be prosecuted. You would have to prove that the danger you were in warranted such violence in defence. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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A woman had a dizzy fit in my shop, ranting and raving, I asked her to leave, she wouldn't, so called the police, when they arrived I was told I would have been in my rights to pick her up and place her of my property, I didn't think that was good advice. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"That is violence regardless of who does it. If it continues then it is domestic violence because of the potential results which can be either physical, psychological or both.
Even though all violence is wrong is that sort of acceptable. If its just a one off? Would you think less of a bloke of you saw it being done, even by someone you knew?
I would think less of anyone male or female if they are violent to the point of hurting someone - except in the case of self-defence. But in that case force must be 'reasonable' enough only for defence and not beating the crap out of someone. It's all about context.
That's what this thread is all about. I agree that going out to hurt them whether its physical or psychological once as in one hit/slap or verbal abuse is just as wrong as doing it many times as to uncalled for. However is getting someone away from you whether its your property or you as a person. Is that acceptable, if the emotions are high and would you think any less if you saw someone do it?
I don't think the law would appreciate you getting someone away from your property using violence. Self-defence is a different matter.
I think that's kind of the question though. Or the way I read it. What constitutes self defence. Can it be seen as violence. "
One argument could be: this person was making me Ill, making me make irrigational judgements, etc. In order for me to have a clear head. She had to get out of my sight, but she wouldn't leave my property and why should anyone be forced to leave there own property. If all it takes is for them to leave?
Personally I think in extreme circumstances and only as a one off. That can be seen as ok. Whereas other things such as physical/mental abuse should not go on and severe action must be taken if and when caught. Also if a saw a really decent bloke doing that. I will have all sorts of thoughts going through my mind, but I wouldn't think less of them, more I'd see them in a slightly different light. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"That is violence regardless of who does it. If it continues then it is domestic violence because of the potential results which can be either physical, psychological or both.
Even though all violence is wrong is that sort of acceptable. If its just a one off? Would you think less of a bloke of you saw it being done, even by someone you knew?
I would think less of anyone male or female if they are violent to the point of hurting someone - except in the case of self-defence. But in that case force must be 'reasonable' enough only for defence and not beating the crap out of someone. It's all about context.
That's what this thread is all about. I agree that going out to hurt them whether its physical or psychological once as in one hit/slap or verbal abuse is just as wrong as doing it many times as to uncalled for. However is getting someone away from you whether its your property or you as a person. Is that acceptable, if the emotions are high and would you think any less if you saw someone do it?
I don't think the law would appreciate you getting someone away from your property using violence. Self-defence is a different matter.
I think that's kind of the question though. Or the way I read it. What constitutes self defence. Can it be seen as violence.
In legal terms it is such a grey area. If you cause actual bodily harm then you can be prosecuted. You would have to prove that the danger you were in warranted such violence in defence."
Ignore the law for a second. Would someone be less thought of if they did that? Anyway isn't getting someone off your property ok as long as no damage was done? |
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By *B9 QueenWoman
over a year ago
Over the rainbow, under the bridge |
"That is violence regardless of who does it. If it continues then it is domestic violence because of the potential results which can be either physical, psychological or both.
Even though all violence is wrong is that sort of acceptable. If its just a one off? Would you think less of a bloke of you saw it being done, even by someone you knew?
I would think less of anyone male or female if they are violent to the point of hurting someone - except in the case of self-defence. But in that case force must be 'reasonable' enough only for defence and not beating the crap out of someone. It's all about context.
That's what this thread is all about. I agree that going out to hurt them whether its physical or psychological once as in one hit/slap or verbal abuse is just as wrong as doing it many times as to uncalled for. However is getting someone away from you whether its your property or you as a person. Is that acceptable, if the emotions are high and would you think any less if you saw someone do it?
I don't think the law would appreciate you getting someone away from your property using violence. Self-defence is a different matter.
I think that's kind of the question though. Or the way I read it. What constitutes self defence. Can it be seen as violence.
In legal terms it is such a grey area. If you cause actual bodily harm then you can be prosecuted. You would have to prove that the danger you were in warranted such violence in defence.
Ignore the law for a second. Would someone be less thought of if they did that? Anyway isn't getting someone off your property ok as long as no damage was done? "
If I considered their reaction to be out of all proportion to the situation then I might think less of them at that point. However - I would want to discuss with them after what the background was to it. It could be that there was a very tense build-up which had been unseen. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I'd say when it comes to man on woman/vice versa violence, prevention is better than cure."
Prevention is better than the cure I agree. Although the only way that will happen is if people can choose relationships with people who aren't abusive. Sadly that isn't easy for some   |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
If someone is feeling irrational violence and the other person doesn't understand that leaving would help forcibly ejecting them could make things worse. If there is any rationality left then that person feeling violent should remove themselves.
How is one to know if the violence is one off? Witnessing it I would want to try and understand what was going on.
I don't think people who act violently are scum but I do think they are troubled and would want to see how they could be helped. However, the priority order is to ensure that the person being hurt is out of harms way.
If there is no way of redeeming the violent person then that is a sad loss of life and potential.
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"I'd say when it comes to man on woman/vice versa violence, prevention is better than cure.
Prevention is better than the cure I agree. Although the only way that will happen is if people can choose relationships with people who aren't abusive. Sadly that isn't easy for some "
Sadly many relationships don't start out abusive and when they do it's too hard to get out. Abusive partners have a way of ensuring that!!! |
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