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A damned disgrace

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

A british soldier done for murder , im ashamed i really am.

And to film it. whats the world comming to

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

It was the words used and the assumption that everyone else would be complicit that shocked me.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

A bad example in a multitude of heroic endeavours by the fallen & those living with scars.

Thank you to the many

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

a very sad and upsetting case,

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"A bad example in a multitude of heroic endeavours by the fallen & those living with scars.

Thank you to the many

This will leave a bad taste in the mouths of many a soldier

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

shit happens.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Are you angry that he was caught?

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

Im angry that he did what he did.

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By *emmefataleWoman over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

"Im angry that he did what he did.

"
What that he killed someone?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A bad example in a multitude of heroic endeavours by the fallen & those living with scars.

Thank you to the many

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"shit happens."

that is a disgusting comment.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Problem is, in war lots of atrocities are committed, but we will never know about 99% of them.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"shit happens.

that is a disgusting comment."

but a true comment.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

I have opinions on this but that is no for on here...I'm not sure what he was thinking at the time...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

And they hold the trial near Remembrance....

some of ours may have died this way.

There are no winners in war.

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"shit happens.

that is a disgusting comment.

but a true comment."

The thread would not have a 'shit happens' comment on it if the film and voice recording showed one of ours being shot by the other side though.

War is atrocious. Atrocities happen. The rules of war are there to minimise that atrocity.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Problem is, in war lots of atrocities are committed, but we will never know about 99% of them."

This Is what I thought tbh

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"And they hold the trial near Remembrance....

some of ours may have died this way.

There are no winners in war."

I think quite a few have....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Of all the things I have seen on here I don't think I have ever been so shocked. I daren't comment anymore on this thread.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"Of all the things I have seen on here I don't think I have ever been so shocked. I daren't comment anymore on this thread. "

What are you shocked at?

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By *heScotandthegirlCouple over a year ago

London & Edinburgh

We would be naive to think that just because our armed forces are 'British' this does not happen. History is unfortunately littered with our atrocities. I completely agree it is disgraceful and disgusting and he was quite rightly severely punished.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

"Of all the things I have seen on here I don't think I have ever been so shocked. I daren't comment anymore on this thread. "

Have you read the vigilante threads of the people whose cases have not reached court.

The above is in war in a far away country, still shocking.

The vigilantes could be 3 streets up.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"A bad example in a multitude of heroic endeavours by the fallen & those living with scars.

Thank you to the many

This will leave a bad taste in the mouths of many a soldier

Is also what I thought. But how do you really take a civilian Joe and train him or her to be a killing machine and expect everything to be okay upstairs? Then when they pop back to good ole blighty they're just Joe again. I don't think the human brain can calculate that shit very easily myself.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

"We would be naive to think that just because our armed forces are 'British' this does not happen. History is unfortunately littered with our atrocities. I completely agree it is disgraceful and disgusting and he was quite rightly severely punished."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Of all the things I have seen on here I don't think I have ever been so shocked. I daren't comment anymore on this thread.

What are you shocked at? "

Probably the blasé "shit happens"

Comment I would imagine.

I must say if a bloke had said that he'd have had nearly every comment after lambasting him by now.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"Of all the things I have seen on here I don't think I have ever been so shocked. I daren't comment anymore on this thread.

What are you shocked at?

Probably the blasé "shit happens"

Comment I would imagine.

I must say if a bloke had said that he'd have had nearly every comment after lambasting him by now.

Maybe...the soldier is going to punished for his actions...

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

lifes a bitch then we die, surprise surprise.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

not all soldiers are heroes, not all of them sign up to be shining examples of honour and decency, protecting our country and others around the world.

some sign up to legitimately fire guns at other people and the power goes to their head.

I ave no doubt this isnt the only one but i think this case is important to highlight that not al soldiers deserve to be on that pedestal so high in the sky that some put them on.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Of all the things I have seen on here I don't think I have ever been so shocked. I daren't comment anymore on this thread.

What are you shocked at?

Probably the blasé "shit happens"

Comment I would imagine.

I must say if a bloke had said that he'd have had nearly every comment after lambasting him by now.

Maybe...the soldier is going to punished for his actions..."

I'm talking about a post above ....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There is a very well written article on the guardian website about this. It makes no excuses, but points out the chap had been on six tours in Afghanistan, probably losing many friends and colleagues in the process. Its well balanced and worth the read. the point it makes is that we really shouldn't be surprised that this is the product of out military campaigns.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Reading this there is a lot of naivety in what is going on in the world, what the front line is like, how much stress people are under and what its like to be constantly putting your limbs and life on the line. Do I have sympathy for a guy who is out of uniform yet still trying to shoot and maim British troops? Do I fuck the actions of the marines can't be condoned but lets face it all the bleeding hearts and moaning minnies would be craping their pants if the troops on mas downed tools and decided not to defend them. Its brutal out there and things happen in the field which is where the issue took place it could be argued its a long way from murder in the streets of Britain.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

"lifes a bitch then we die, surprise surprise."

are you reading what you are posting?? how is this even constructive to the thread or are you bored and angling for an argument?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"lifes a bitch then we die, surprise surprise.

are you reading what you are posting?? how is this even constructive to the thread or are you bored and angling for an argument?"

Just saying what i think.

sorry if its not what you want to hear.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

"lifes a bitch then we die, surprise surprise.

are you reading what you are posting?? how is this even constructive to the thread or are you bored and angling for an argument?

Just saying what i think.

sorry if its not what you want to hear."

its not that i dont want to hear it, its just nonsense....

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"lifes a bitch then we die, surprise surprise."

What if someone murdered your dog would you come out with the same statement?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"lifes a bitch then we die, surprise surprise."

No matter who or what someone's life has been taken. Someone who will no doubt be missed by family and friends.

You must be one cold hearted woman to post comments like these. If you had a pair of bollocks you'd have had a shed load of shit said against you by now.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

some sign up to legitimately fire guns at other people and the power goes to their head.

"
How is this even constructive to the thread or are you bored and angling for an argument?

I really don't think you live in the real world or have one iota of the recruiting policy.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"Reading this there is a lot of naivety in what is going on in the world, what the front line is like, how much stress people are under and what its like to be constantly putting your limbs and life on the line. Do I have sympathy for a guy who is out of uniform yet still trying to shoot and maim British troops? Do I fuck the actions of the marines can't be condoned but lets face it all the bleeding hearts and moaning minnies would be craping their pants if the troops on mas downed tools and decided not to defend them. Its brutal out there and things happen in the field which is where the issue took place it could be argued its a long way from murder in the streets of Britain. "

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By *heScotandthegirlCouple over a year ago

London & Edinburgh

"lifes a bitch then we die, surprise surprise.

are you reading what you are posting?? how is this even constructive to the thread or are you bored and angling for an argument?

Just saying what i think.

sorry if its not what you want to hear."

Sounds like you are condoning or just shrugging your shoulders about what they did tho, do you feel they are being unjustly dealt with?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"lifes a bitch then we die, surprise surprise.

No matter who or what someone's life has been taken. Someone who will no doubt be missed by family and friends.

You must be one cold hearted woman to post comments like these. If you had a pair of bollocks you'd have had a shed load of shit said against you by now. "

Defo...!

But to be fair she always angles for an argument.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

i dont doubt its a tough place to be and i dont know what mental health care the marines provide but if the marine is claimin diminished mental health then its clearly not enough.

on the video i watched on the news right now the marine clearly knew what was going on, he made sure they were away from the rest of his patrol, he made sure an apache helicopter that was overhead moved on before shooting the man, he knew he had gone against the geneva convention and he mad sure the other 2 wouldnt say anything.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

i dont doubt its a tough place to be and i dont know what mental health care the marines provide but if the marine is claimin diminished mental health then its clearly not enough.

Sounds like murder to me

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

some sign up to legitimately fire guns at other people and the power goes to their head.

How is this even constructive to the thread or are you bored and angling for an argument?

I really don't think you live in the real world or have one iota of the recruiting policy.

hey there monte, how ya doing??

you honestly think the recruitment process is 100% airtight and people dont slip through?

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

some sign up to legitimately fire guns at other people and the power goes to their head.

How is this even constructive to the thread or are you bored and angling for an argument?

I really don't think you live in the real world or have one iota of the recruiting policy.

hey there monte, how ya doing??

you honestly think the recruitment process is 100% airtight and people dont slip through? "

Of course people slip through there have been many cases involving American troops and afghan...there was a few ongoing when I was involved with the US army. Nothing is watertight the same as when afghan policemen go into camp and shot British soldiers dead...I am sick of this war and the devastating impact it has on both the soldiers and the innocent member do afghan and Iraqi citizens....I certainly however show no remorse for the extremist. My best friend has just come back from his 6 tour and he has changed not in a good way he has become detached and I feel like I don't know him anymore...

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"not all soldiers are heroes, not all of them sign up to be shining examples of honour and decency, protecting our country and others around the world.

some sign up to legitimately fire guns at other people and the power goes to their head.

I ave no doubt this isnt the only one but i think this case is important to highlight that not al soldiers deserve to be on that pedestal so high in the sky that some put them on.

Theres an awful lot who sign up to dodge a criminal record too. One glance at the lovely guy in the Infantry Training College at Catterick would not warm the cockles of any Amnesty International members heart.

Did only one guy get sentenced then? I assumed that all three were complicit.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

i dont doubt its a tough place to be and i dont know what mental health care the marines provide but if the marine is claimin diminished mental health then its clearly not enough.

You only got to see a partial clip and less video more audio very little of the full 13 mins of footage was made available to the general public. The marines in question were tasked to do a job and they took it further. The facts are sparse people are making judgements on snipits of information without a clue what its like out there. You have to realise these guys have been trained to fight, kill and many of the foot solders are not brain of Britain. When adrenalin is flowing things happen quickly. There is many a guy been decorated for only slightly less in the past. This should all have been dealt with behind closed doors and the media frenzy kept out of it.

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By *heScotandthegirlCouple over a year ago

London & Edinburgh

some sign up to legitimately fire guns at other people and the power goes to their head.

How is this even constructive to the thread or are you bored and angling for an argument?

I really don't think you live in the real world or have one iota of the recruiting policy.

hey there monte, how ya doing??

you honestly think the recruitment process is 100% airtight and people dont slip through?

I cannot even begin to imagine what that would do to me tbh. 6 tours seems an awful lot to expose someone to, I am not surprised he has been affected, hope he gets some good help.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"not all soldiers are heroes, not all of them sign up to be shining examples of honour and decency, protecting our country and others around the world.

some sign up to legitimately fire guns at other people and the power goes to their head.

I ave no doubt this isnt the only one but i think this case is important to highlight that not al soldiers deserve to be on that pedestal so high in the sky that some put them on.

Did only one guy get sentenced then? I assumed that all three were complicit."

The other 2 were cleared

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

" A british soldier done for murder , im ashamed i really am.

And to film it. whats the world comming to

He's a Marine. That makes him a sailor.

In my book that's worse.

No sympathy.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

There was a very moving caller on the Jeremy Vine show today, he was 28 and witnessed a 17 year old soldier die in the first Gulf War. He was in tears telling the story.

It was heartbreaking, the loss of someone so young but also the pain in this man's voice years and years later.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

some sign up to legitimately fire guns at other people and the power goes to their head.

How is this even constructive to the thread or are you bored and angling for an argument?

I really don't think you live in the real world or have one iota of the recruiting policy.

hey there monte, how ya doing??

you honestly think the recruitment process is 100% airtight and people dont slip through?

I cannot even begin to imagine what that would do to me tbh. 6 tours seems an awful lot to expose someone to, I am not surprised he has been affected, hope he gets some good help."

Nah he won't he considers himself normal and just blocks everything out...that's just him

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

perhaps the biggest question arising from this then is what provision does the MoD make for ongoing psychological support?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

some sign up to legitimately fire guns at other people and the power goes to their head.

How is this even constructive to the thread or are you bored and angling for an argument?

I really don't think you live in the real world or have one iota of the recruiting policy.

hey there monte, how ya doing??

you honestly think the recruitment process is 100% airtight and people dont slip through? "

They don't recruit pacifists so there you go its not slipping them through thats who they are looking for. Guys who will get their blood up risk their lives often at certain danger. They recruit guys who want to shoot Jesus if they didn't the marines would say fuck that im not doing that. The Navy train them to go in where others fear to tread. To say "the power goes to their head" I am highly offended at as you clearly haven't a clue and I think you will find many of the past and present marines on here will be thinking the same.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

i dont doubt its a tough place to be and i dont know what mental health care the marines provide but if the marine is claimin diminished mental health then its clearly not enough.

so they could come home hero's?

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By *eMontresMan over a year ago

Halesowen

The thing is, not only were their actions illegal and morally reprehensible (just because the enemy behave that way, doesn't mean we have to), they were plain dumb. They had an opportunity to capture a prisoner, from whom intelligence could potentially have been extracted. Thus, they actually did their comrades a disservice by eliminating this possibility. I'm ex forces, commissioned, sure we train people to be ruthless killers, but some of them don't have the sense they were born with and fail to see the bigger picture.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"perhaps the biggest question arising from this then is what provision does the MoD make for ongoing psychological support?

It's there for the asking but asking isn't seen to be the done thing.

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

i dont doubt its a tough place to be and i dont know what mental health care the marines provide but if the marine is claimin diminished mental health then its clearly not enough.

The judgement has been made by those that did see all the evidence. As with any thread on here the mantra is that innocent until proven guilty. Guilt has been determined and we take it on trust that looking at the evidence in the whole that judgement is the right one.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

some sign up to legitimately fire guns at other people and the power goes to their head.

How is this even constructive to the thread or are you bored and angling for an argument?

I really don't think you live in the real world or have one iota of the recruiting policy.

hey there monte, how ya doing??

you honestly think the recruitment process is 100% airtight and people dont slip through?

i didn't say it goes to all of their heads did i? but it is a bit naive to believe that it doesn't happen to some.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There are very strict rules for engaging the enemy which are drummed into all service personnel especially before deployment. Unfortunately the enemy do not abide by the same codes even though they are fully aware of them and usually try to provoke reactions such as these by filming them themselves. For instance, shooting children and waiting for assistance from Isaf troops to attend and assist in medical evacuation, then ambush. Another one is allowing one self to be injured then waiting to be evacuated to hospital then trying to kill the people who are trying to help, I especially liked that one....not!

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

"not all soldiers are heroes, not all of them sign up to be shining examples of honour and decency, protecting our country and others around the world.

some sign up to legitimately fire guns at other people and the power goes to their head.

I ave no doubt this isnt the only one but i think this case is important to highlight that not al soldiers deserve to be on that pedestal so high in the sky that some put them on.

Did only one guy get sentenced then? I assumed that all three were complicit.

The other 2 were cleared "

From what I saw on the news this morning, I think the other two should have got some penalty too. They may not have killed a man, but their remarks were unsettling to put it mildly.

people seem to think that Marines should be 'let off' brutal behaviour because they are first in to war and are under a great deal of stress. I think (and forgive me because I work with soldiers, not Marines) but I think they should be more careful of their image, not less. A death in a gunfight is understandable, if not easy to condone, but a deliberate act of murder against an unarmed and injured person is not understandable. And the most dumbass thing ever is they filmed the damn thing!

Marines are a weapon, useful in some respects, and bloody dangerous in others. Maybe this will be a good training tool - stop shooting unarmed people, however cross you are.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

i dont doubt its a tough place to be and i dont know what mental health care the marines provide but if the marine is claimin diminished mental health then its clearly not enough.

so they could come home hero's? "

Don't put words into my mouth please. You do realise this will just be another rally call for terrorists and will lead to potentially more deaths all round. Hey it could be mine or your neighborhood it could be family and friends. Military courts deal harshly with things and they don't get swept under the carpet.

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

i dont doubt its a tough place to be and i dont know what mental health care the marines provide but if the marine is claimin diminished mental health then its clearly not enough.

Actually, funnily enough, a court martial assumes guilty until proved otherwise. Same with Civil Service.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

i dont doubt its a tough place to be and i dont know what mental health care the marines provide but if the marine is claimin diminished mental health then its clearly not enough.

so they could come home hero's?

I wasn't putting words in your mouth I was stating a fact of what happens, men go to war and come back hero's, I wonder how many so called hero's have done the same, if someone kills in cold blood why shouldnt they be outed, if I walked down the street and killed someone it wouldn't be delt with behind closed doors so why should he

and don't be so touchy

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Actually, funnily enough, a court martial assumes guilty until proved otherwise. Same with Civil Service."

I know. My point was about us civilians assuming guilt without proof or all of the evidence. As with many controversial topics on here there is a lot of speculation. What we have is a news report that has been running all day with a snippet of the voice recording that in it's isolation is shocking, some footage that is shocking and now a guilty verdict.

War is atrocious.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

i dont doubt its a tough place to be and i dont know what mental health care the marines provide but if the marine is claimin diminished mental health then its clearly not enough.

so they could come home hero's?

and don't be so touchy

No you were being patronising and the 2 issues are very different. If you had been in the position where your adrenalin is pumping for fear of your life or coming home minus your arms or legs people react differently and if they are provided with weapons by our government and training its is clearly a different scenario. The reason it should have been dealt with out of the media frenzy is that it will be used as a recruitment aid for terrorists.

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

Actually, funnily enough, a court martial assumes guilty until proved otherwise. Same with Civil Service.

War is atrocious.

It might only have been a snippet we were allowed to see, but it was a pretty damning snippet. The phrase 'I just broke the Geneva Convention' was a shock coming from a marine who should have had the best training in the world.

War is atrocious, and the sooner we are out of Afghanistan, the happier a lot of people will be. I wonder if the Hague will be getting involved though.

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

" The reason it should have been dealt with out of the media frenzy is that it will be used as a recruitment aid for terrorists."

This I agree with. The reprisals could be much worse than the crime. And I think the crime is horrendous enough without imagining worse.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No you were being patronising "

I actually wasn't but if that's how you wanted to take it I cant do anything about that

I was making a point that so many men come home hero's and we don't have a clue what they do, this story just shows us that they all arnt hero's

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

I think there will be a few eye for an eye in this case..people seeking revenge,..

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

I don't want our Armed Forces to be held to other than the highest standard.

Just because THEY don't play by the rules must never mean we don't.

I don't want it done in secret either.

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By *icketysplitsWoman over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Actually, funnily enough, a court martial assumes guilty until proved otherwise. Same with Civil Service.

War is atrocious.

War is atrocious, and the sooner we are out of Afghanistan, the happier a lot of people will be. I wonder if the Hague will be getting involved though."

The Hague never moves quickly so it will be wait and see.

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

" The reason it should have been dealt with out of the media frenzy is that it will be used as a recruitment aid for terrorists.

This I agree with. The reprisals could be much worse than the crime. And I think the crime is horrendous enough without imagining worse.

I disagree. The only reason these guys got caught is because they were dumb enough to not make sure the camera stayed off. Who knows what else is being done over there. I doubt many enemy soldiers want to risk coming across someone playing by the Marquis of Queensbury rules.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"No you were being patronising

I actually wasn't but if that's how you wanted to take it I cant do anything about that

I was making a point that so many men come home hero's and we don't have a clue what they do, this story just shows us that they all arnt hero's"

Some are some aren't its pointless trying to classify people with a word. The fact is our government put them out there, trained them, gave them weapons and told them to shoot in this instance it went too far which wasn't right but the mind set of the marines were to remove someone who might come back and kill and main their extended family. The situation as a sad one and a depressing one but castigating men we trained to kill and defend our nation in a media frenzy is crass at best.

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By *iss_tressWoman over a year ago

London

"not all soldiers are heroes, not all of them sign up to be shining examples of honour and decency, protecting our country and others around the world.

some sign up to legitimately fire guns at other people and the power goes to their head.

I ave no doubt this isnt the only one but i think this case is important to highlight that not al soldiers deserve to be on that pedestal so high in the sky that some put them on.

^^^^^This!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't want our Armed Forces to be held to other than the highest standard.

Just because THEY don't play by the rules must never mean we don't.

I don't want it done in secret either."

If you think people play by the rules in active warfare then you are fooling yourself from intelligence gathering to snipers in the field the rules are very fuzzy we have a situation now where the troops can only return fire and not instigate it. Its nice to think of clan hankies regimental ties and swagger sticks but that's not reality.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

" .......

The reason they got caught is because someone passed the video to someone else, whose computer was searched by civilian cops regarding an unrelated matter.

There's a lesson for home movie makers there.

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By (user no longer on site) OP over a year ago

War and conflict anywhere is horrid and brings out the worst in some.

I was just so shocked, why ? i cant honestly say...maybe its because my two cousins were in the army , one came out after the falklands and had never recovered properly.The other came home via the hospital after having half his head blown away in ireland.

Both my brothers were in ireland and one is ok.....the other still suffers from clinical depression after seeing his mate shot in the face right next to him.

Atrocities happen, im not naive ...

They probably had their chance to do something they shouldnt, after all its war....

I expected, rightly or wrongly....

that a serving soldier or marine....would behave accordingly and not sink to the level of those wishing to blow the world away...in one way or another

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

" .......

The reason they got caught is because someone passed the video to someone else, whose computer was searched by civilian cops regarding an unrelated matter.

There's a lesson for home movie makers there."

So they got caught because they were dumb enough not to make sure the camera was off. I have no doubt whatsoever that there are people out there who are not as dumb, and who we will never know about.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

" .......

The reason they got caught is because someone passed the video to someone else, whose computer was searched by civilian cops regarding an unrelated matter.

There's a lesson for home movie makers there.

So they got caught because they were dumb enough not to make sure the camera was off. I have no doubt whatsoever that there are people out there who are not as dumb, and who we will never know about."

There's still a culture of war trophies. Most are kept in a drawer under the bed or somewhere safe.

Passing this film clip around caused the problem, though the incident should never have happened in the first place.

You'd have thought the business with the SAS guy and the gun would have had people wising up and disposing of evidence (but maybe the dates overlapped).

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By *yrdwomanWoman over a year ago

Putting the 'cum' in Eboracum

" .......

The reason they got caught is because someone passed the video to someone else, whose computer was searched by civilian cops regarding an unrelated matter.

There's a lesson for home movie makers there.

So they got caught because they were dumb enough not to make sure the camera was off. I have no doubt whatsoever that there are people out there who are not as dumb, and who we will never know about.

There's still a culture of war trophies. Most are kept in a drawer under the bed or somewhere safe.

Passing this film clip around caused the problem, though the incident should never have happened in the first place.

You'd have thought the business with the SAS guy and the gun would have had people wising up and disposing of evidence (but maybe the dates overlapped)."

having worked with the Armed Forces for a fair few years, Marines are not well known for their wisdom.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

" .......

The reason they got caught is because someone passed the video to someone else, whose computer was searched by civilian cops regarding an unrelated matter.

There's a lesson for home movie makers there.

So they got caught because they were dumb enough not to make sure the camera was off. I have no doubt whatsoever that there are people out there who are not as dumb, and who we will never know about.

There's still a culture of war trophies. Most are kept in a drawer under the bed or somewhere safe.

Passing this film clip around caused the problem, though the incident should never have happened in the first place.

You'd have thought the business with the SAS guy and the gun would have had people wising up and disposing of evidence (but maybe the dates overlapped).

having worked with the Armed Forces for a fair few years, Marines are not well known for their wisdom. "

You might well think that, I couldn't possibly comment

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" .......

The reason they got caught is because someone passed the video to someone else, whose computer was searched by civilian cops regarding an unrelated matter.

There's a lesson for home movie makers there.

So they got caught because they were dumb enough not to make sure the camera was off. I have no doubt whatsoever that there are people out there who are not as dumb, and who we will never know about.

There's still a culture of war trophies. Most are kept in a drawer under the bed or somewhere safe.

Passing this film clip around caused the problem, though the incident should never have happened in the first place.

You'd have thought the business with the SAS guy and the gun would have had people wising up and disposing of evidence (but maybe the dates overlapped).

having worked with the Armed Forces for a fair few years, Marines are not well known for their wisdom. "

The entrance exams are harder than most you could say though that any foot solder is not acting wisely going into a dangerous situation. But you could also say anyone who leaves the education system without higher qualifications is also lacking in wisdom.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" .......

The reason they got caught is because someone passed the video to someone else, whose computer was searched by civilian cops regarding an unrelated matter.

There's a lesson for home movie makers there.

So they got caught because they were dumb enough not to make sure the camera was off. I have no doubt whatsoever that there are people out there who are not as dumb, and who we will never know about.

There's still a culture of war trophies. Most are kept in a drawer under the bed or somewhere safe.

Passing this film clip around caused the problem, though the incident should never have happened in the first place.

They were helmet cameras so passing clips around is irrelevant the data was collected by official sources I can only assume you are commenting again without knowing the facts ONNY.

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By *riskynriskyCouple over a year ago

Essex.

I agree that it shouldn't have happened, but this is not an ideal world. The "victim" was a man who believed in shooting a girl in the head for daring to go to school. He would have let us pay for his treatment, then sued us for injuring him. He and others like him are not brave enough to wear a uniform and would have happily tortured a British serviceman or woman before cutting their head off and posting the video all over the Internet.

The people fighting for our country have seen stuff that most of us would be shocked to seein a film. Many of them will suffer from PTSD or whatever ever the current name for it is.

Personally if someone is fighting for my country I want them to be the nastiest fucker on the battlefield...

In an ideal world we would not be sending sons, husbands, brothers, fathers off to kill and be killed. I personally agree with what we are doing but hope it ends very soon...

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

He's a Marine. That makes him a sailor.

In my book that's worse.

No sympathy."

I'm an ex commando.

And I am outraged! Not because an experienced commandos (one was a sargent!) killed a wounded enemy (things like that happen in war), but that he and his comrades were so badly disciplined that not only did they record what they were doing but that at least 1 of them kept the recording!

The rights and wrongs of their actions in battle are not for me to judge. But I will judge their attitude!

They acted like yank cowboys and as such are a disgrace and deserve everything that's coming to them!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

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By *igSuki81Man over a year ago

Retirement Village

"I agree that it shouldn't have happened, but this is not an ideal world. The "victim" was a man who believed in shooting a girl in the head for daring to go to school. He would have let us pay for his treatment, then sued us for injuring him. He and others like him are not brave enough to wear a uniform and would have happily tortured a British serviceman or woman before cutting their head off and posting the video all over the Internet.

The people fighting for our country have seen stuff that most of us would be shocked to seein a film. Many of them will suffer from PTSD or whatever ever the current name for it is.

Personally if someone is fighting for my country I want them to be the nastiest fucker on the battlefield...

In an ideal world we would not be sending sons, husbands, brothers, fathers off to kill and be killed. I personally agree with what we are doing but hope it ends very soon...

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By *kywatcherMan over a year ago

Southwick

"Problem is, in war lots of atrocities are committed, but we will never know about 99% of them."

This ^^^in spades...RIP dad RAF Regiment 1942-46...Jim!!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Just to correct a couple of the above points:

History has proved that Yes, the military big cheeses & courts most certainly do sweep this thing under the carpet, so Yes, we, the public who actually pay for the military most certainly do need to be informed of atrocities like this!

There's been far too many unjust wars in the last few decades, far to many innocent lives (the vast majority in Iraq) have been lost - & that's before the military death count.

There's too many bloodthirsty bastards high up in the military who just can't resist a war game or two - when they know they'll never be anywhere near a frontline in their lives.

These are the real bastard dogs of war!!

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"Just to correct a couple of the above points:

1) History has proved that Yes, the military big cheeses & courts most certainly do sweep this thing under the carpet.

2) Yes, we, the public who actually pay for the military most certainly do need to be informed of atrocities like this!

3) There's too many bloodthirsty bastards high up in the military who just can't resist a war game or two - when they know they'll never be anywhere near a frontline in their lives.

These are the real bastard dogs of war!!"

Let me take issue with the 3 points above. In order:

1) I cant speak about what big cheeses do behind closed doors, but I do know that military courts dont sweep anything under the carpet! If civilians were treated in the same way as the military courts treat servicemen/women then everyone would be up in arms!

2) No! The public DONT want to know what the military do, you want to sit in judgment of those who volunteer to die to keep you free to look on them as dirt!

3) Every and I cant stress this enough, EVERY senior officer started his or her career as a 2nd Lieutenant, has seen active service and proved themselves as leaders, and then worked their way to the top by merit! No institution is LESS nepotistic than the military!

As for your final comment about "bastard dogs of war" you should get down on your knees and give thanks that we have such "bastards" defending us and our freedom.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Are you for real? Are you blind?

I should get down on my knees for unjust wars that I payed for - in part? Yeah right!! & have protected me from what? My Saddam proof shelter is still at the bottom of my garden - almost used it for the first time during the storm the other week, btw - & that's only a!!

B: yes, the public should most definitely know - it helps parents & 16 year old kids know what they're letting themselves in for before they sign on the dotted line - let's face it, all those recruitment adverts on tv are hardly insightful, are they? Or do you think so? It seems to me like they're appealing to children wanting to play bigger grown up games - avoiding the "I just blew his fckn head off," cries or "aaaaaagh, I'm hit," cries. These adverts are aimed at kids ffs!

So yes, the more truth about the atrocities of war, the better for everyone; it's stories like this that helped me talk my nephew out of signing up - so i certainly won't be getting on my knees for any bastard!

Which brings me to C:

You think I should get on my knees to those war mongering big cheese dogs?

When my grandfather & his comrades were in the Somme & being lead to there deaths by these cowards means that somehow I should be bowing & grovelling to them?

My Grandfather never showed anyone his medals - he was too ashamed of being a part of that fckn battle.

Please excuse me for expressing an opinion (NOT) but they are truly the disgusting, bastard dogs of war!!

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"Are you for real? Are you blind?

Which brings me to C:

You think I should get on my knees to those war mongering big cheese dogs?

When my grandfather & his comrades were in the Somme & being lead to there deaths by these cowards means that somehow I should be bowing & grovelling to them?

My Grandfather never showed anyone his medals - he was too ashamed of being a part of that fckn battle.

Please excuse me for expressing an opinion (NOT) but they are truly the disgusting, bastard dogs of war!!"

I'm an ex Commando, I served in NI and the Falklands, which branch of the services were you in? Because to put it bluntly I've been there and know what its really like and I dont believe you have.

It might surprise you to learn that for my first 12 weeks of training (that's when you have a right to leave if you change your mind, did you know that?) every one of my instructors was doing everything in their power to break me and every other physically and mentally and get me to leave. They pulled no punches, they told us what we were in for and what we could expect to have to do and see! In my intake we started with 63 on day 1 by the end of week 12 there were 23 of us left! Those who join up quickly have (or had) any illusions they may have stripped from them. The simple fact is you dont want to go into battle with someone who suddenly decides that they have made a mistake and dont want to play no more! So please dont think that signing up is it.

I would agree that there should be no recruitment under 18, but again there are safeguards that allow anyone under 17 1/2 to leave if they decide they have made a mistake.

I must say your story about your grandfather is striking, I bet he never told you that the officers who lead him over the top were cowards. In fact I bet you will not be able to find 1 soldier, sailor or airman who will tell you he was lead into battle by a coward. but then you may have a different understanding of cowardice than me.

As for who you have been protected from...

Do you really think we have had our troops dying in the Middle East for all these years for nothing? If you do you are delusional our troops die in foreign fields so that we do not have to fight in our fields, towns and cities.

And if you want to blame anyone for our involvement in the last years of war DON'T BLAME THE MILITARY they did not take us to war POLITICIANS did that!

If there have been any warmongers they have all been politicians. And as I said you should give thanks that we have the "Bastards" we have in charge of our armed forces because the alternative can be seen all over the world and you would not be able to say what you have tonight without fear of your front door being kicked down and you disappearing!

Maybe you should give a little thought to that while you are slagging off our armed forces!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Thing is though this is a regular occurrence for our specials forced teams, 4 men in those own can't really take half a dozen prisoners or administer medical care to wounded when they have a short deadline to walk out of there, so it's Justa few shots and suddenly there's no more prisoners or wounded...

In this case though being part of the main army it's not justified, but finding your mates limbs string up as trophies it's going to break many a mans mind.

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By *illwill69uMan over a year ago

moston

"Thing is though this is a regular occurrence for our specials forced teams, 4 men in those own can't really take half a dozen prisoners or administer medical care to wounded when they have a short deadline to walk out of there, so it's Justa few shots and suddenly there's no more prisoners or wounded...

In this case though being part of the main army it's not justified, but finding your mates limbs string up as trophies it's going to break many a mans mind."

As I said in my first post I will not pass judgement on their actions for so many reasons. You have mentioned a couple.

But I will on their recording it and keeping the recording as a souvenir!

That was not just crass, it was outrageous and undisciplined! They all deserve everything they get, not for the killing so much but for the gloating way they did it!

I know that what I say will be unpopular with many, but in war things are done that should never leave battlefield and not become macabre war trophies .

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It was Murder, the person who committed and was found guilty of the crime is a Murderer whatever country he is in at the time,People say that our justice system is the finest but still there is talk that an act of Murder should not have been made public

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I don't think you can judge why they did it, unless you've been in that situation. Yes, the shooting was against the law but what these soldiers have seen and experienced must mean their minds and attitudes are no longer "normal". They are fighting for survival on a daily basis and have seen things nobody should ever see and many of them are little more than children. Their attitude was wrong but what they did? Would the insurgent have been back out killing when he had recovered?

I'm sure I'll get shot down in flames for my opinion but war isn't pretty and as civilians, we really have no idea what goes on in a soldiers mind. I'm not sure we should be there but that's not a choice the military made, that was down to politicians!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Soldier kills insurgent what's wrong with that? How many soldiers have been killed by insurgents? Would the insergent have given the soldier first aid? I think not

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I don't think you can judge why they did it, unless you've been in that situation. Yes, the shooting was against the law but what these soldiers have seen and experienced must mean their minds and attitudes are no longer "normal". They are fighting for survival on a daily basis and have seen things nobody should ever see and many of them are little more than children. Their attitude was wrong but what they did? Would the insurgent have been back out killing when he had recovered?

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By *teveanddebsCouple over a year ago

Norwich

He committed the biggest crime possible in the Armed Forces which is getting caught.

Personally I don't think it was murder, that puts it on the same level cases like baby P et al, and should have been dealt with differently.

All this talk of the Geneva convention is where we make a big mistake when dealing with terrorists. You should never take a knife to a gunfight.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"He committed the biggest crime possible in the Armed Forces which is getting caught.

Personally I don't think it was murder, that puts it on the same level cases like baby P et al, and should have been dealt with differently.

All this talk of the Geneva convention is where we make a big mistake when dealing with terrorists. You should never take a knife to a gunfight.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Don't give the guy a prison sentence give the guy a medal, one less terrorist to worry about

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

In this case though being part of the main army it's not justified, but finding your mates limbs string up as trophies it's going to break many a mans mind.

As I said in my first post I will not pass judgement on their actions for so many reasons. You have mentioned a couple.

But I will on their recording it and keeping the recording as a souvenir!

That was not just crass, it was outrageous and undisciplined! They all deserve everything they get, not for the killing so much but for the gloating way they did it!

I know that what I say will be unpopular with many, but in war things are done that should never leave battlefield and not become macabre war trophies ."

Okay, my apologies but the previous post was to big to click on, so I'll answer/correct some of your

comments here.

A:, No, thankfully, I most certainly didn't join the forces, thankfully due to some sound advice from my elders, though a couple of my schoolmates did - & sadly, that was to their ruin. Hey, maybe I wasn't brave enough? But now I like to look back & think that I also wasn't stupid enough either, knowing the unjust wars that have been fought since then.

B:do I think our troops have been dying in the middle east for nothing? Well, maybe you can explain the reason for the last Iraq war? You actually contradicted yourself because on one hand your saying that they're there for our safety yet on another

you're blaming the politicians for sending our troops

there in the first place!!! So which one is it? You seem confused on them points - just an observation. Personally, I believe that the Iraq war could have been avoided by heavier sanctions - how many

thousand soldiers lives could have been saved?

And how many of those innocent 60-120,000 (depending on who you want to believe) innocent

men, women & children's lives could have been

saved? You seemed to have overlooked them in all of your posts so far.

C: You seem to be taking some kind of high ground regarding the Somme? Well the big cheeses that my grandfather referred to as cowards were, & I totally agree, them military hierarchy who were 30 miles behind the front line, didn't you remember them? - "don't slouch, darling!!"

I look forward to your reply, especially if you've got yourself off of the fence about B; you can't have it both ways.

Personally, I hate reading about needless loss of life, weather they're ours or not; & I'm sure that all of the victims families & friends fell the same - but I don't believe that it's solely politicians at fault - even though in a true democracy, they should have the last word & not be leant on by anyone!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Think you have gone off the subject

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Only slightly, lolz - but was hours ago!

....Fab is terrible for chronic insomnia - but at least there's interesting debate,

Not to be confused with massdebate

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" .......

The reason they got caught is because someone passed the video to someone else, whose computer was searched by civilian cops regarding an unrelated matter.

There's a lesson for home movie makers there.

So they got caught because they were dumb enough not to make sure the camera was off. I have no doubt whatsoever that there are people out there who are not as dumb, and who we will never know about.

There's still a culture of war trophies. Most are kept in a drawer under the bed or somewhere safe.

Passing this film clip around caused the problem, though the incident should never have happened in the first place.

You'd have thought the business with the SAS guy and the gun would have had people wising up and disposing of evidence (but maybe the dates overlapped).

having worked with the Armed Forces for a fair few years, Marines are not well known for their wisdom. "

A very offensive and sweeping statement

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Just to correct a couple of the above points:

1) History has proved that Yes, the military big cheeses & courts most certainly do sweep this thing under the carpet.

2) Yes, we, the public who actually pay for the military most certainly do need to be informed of atrocities like this!

3) There's too many bloodthirsty bastards high up in the military who just can't resist a war game or two - when they know they'll never be anywhere near a frontline in their lives.

These are the real bastard dogs of war!!

Let me take issue with the 3 points above. In order:

2) No! The public DONT want to know what the military do, you want to sit in judgment of those who volunteer to die to keep you free to look on them as dirt!

As for your final comment about "bastard dogs of war" you should get down on your knees and give thanks that we have such "bastards" defending us and our freedom.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Just to correct a couple of the above points:

1) History has proved that Yes, the military big cheeses & courts most certainly do sweep this thing under the carpet.

2) Yes, we, the public who actually pay for the military most certainly do need to be informed of atrocities like this!

3) There's too many bloodthirsty bastards high up in the military who just can't resist a war game or two - when they know they'll never be anywhere near a frontline in their lives.

These are the real bastard dogs of war!!

Let me take issue with the 3 points above. In order:

2) No! The public DONT want to know what the military do, you want to sit in judgment of those who volunteer to die to keep you free to look on them as dirt!

As for your final comment about "bastard dogs of war" you should get down on your knees and give thanks that we have such "bastards" defending us and our freedom.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Why is it ok for one of 'our brave lads' in the chopper to shoot the guy intending to kill, yet when someone on the ground does it, it's a shocking murder? If our soldiers are captured they can expect to be beheaded by a twelve year old with a blunt knife.

Some ignorant, 'we're holier than holy' comments on this thread. If you don't want soldiers to kill people, don't give them guns. The other guy wasn't 'an innocent'

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Why is it ok for one of 'our brave lads' in the chopper to shoot the guy intending to kill, yet when someone on the ground does it, it's a shocking murder? If our soldiers are captured they can expect to be beheaded by a twelve year old with a blunt knife.

Some ignorant, 'we're holier than holy' comments on this thread. If you don't want soldiers to kill people, don't give them guns. The other guy wasn't 'an innocent'"

At last some one gets it

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

Not denying that the guys and gals in the army do a hard job but they dint volunteer for it as one poster suggested. They get paid to do their job. Yrs it's a difficult and dangerous Jon that has never even crossed my mind to do but they didn't sign up thinking they were going to be sat Round polishing their boots all day did they. The knew and accepted the risks involved.

The issue here is do we lower ourselves (meaning the armed forces) to the enemies standards - killing people because we can or do we adhere to the conventions and regulation that we have signed up to to be a better fighting force?

The marine in question knew what he was doing would get him in trouble if he did it in plain sight of the rest of his patrol. He took the guy away from the others and shot him. If the guy was to be just another casualty of war why hide the fact that he did it? Why tell the other two not to tell anyone about it?

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By *riskynriskyCouple over a year ago

Essex.

From my point of _iew...

A) I work with many ex servicemen. They have a wide range of service. I have an uncle who fought in WW 2and also my late grandfather. My father fought in the middle east in the late 50s early 60s. Some of these people have been shot, blown up...Both in my father's case... All of the above are well adjusted menbers of society, not blood thirsty killers. However working in London I see homeless people and know that a large number of them are also ex services and are having serious problems.

B) Unjust wars? Fighting to stop terrorism spreading and to improve the lives of hundreds of thousands of people... I can't see what is wrong with that... Sanctions harm the common person. It is the poor that starve and lack medical care not the leaders...

C) The leaders during WW1 were not cowards. What they were, was behind the times. Their training and experience was in cavalry charges and fighting in line. They were fighting a modern war with tactics used by Wellington.

Again from my point of _iew and I do have personal experience of this... People are happy to read the papers and except every word of it as true... Often the truth is quite different from the report in the papers or on the news...

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By *teveanddebsCouple over a year ago

Norwich

Some ignorant, 'we're holier than holy' comments on this thread. If you don't want soldiers to kill people, don't give them guns. The other guy wasn't 'an innocent'"

This

Especially, and this seems to have been conveniently forgotten, "The other guy wasn't an innocent"

"Shuffle off this mortal coil *****"

I'd like to think the deleted expletive was "fucker".

From Kenya, through Cyprus, Northern Ireland and other places to Afghanistan we've sent the armed forces to do a job but hamstrung them with rules of engagement that the enemy must laugh at.

Fuck the Geneva Convention unless the other side signed it as well.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Not denying that the guys and gals in the army do a hard job but they dint volunteer for it as one poster suggested. They get paid to do their job. Yrs it's a difficult and dangerous Jon that has never even crossed my mind to do but they didn't sign up thinking they were going to be sat Round polishing their boots all day did they. The knew and accepted the risks involved.

Live by the sword die by the sword, let us not forget for one minute the guy he killed was an insurgent/terrorist

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Some ignorant, 'we're holier than holy' comments on this thread. If you don't want soldiers to kill people, don't give them guns. The other guy wasn't 'an innocent'

This

Especially, and this seems to have been conveniently forgotten, "The other guy wasn't an innocent"

"Shuffle off this mortal coil *****"

I'd like to think the deleted expletive was "fucker".

From Kenya, through Cyprus, Northern Ireland and other places to Afghanistan we've sent the armed forces to do a job but hamstrung them with rules of engagement that the enemy must laugh at.

Fuck the Geneva Convention unless the other side signed it as well."

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

They were helmet cameras so passing clips around is irrelevant the data was collected by official sources I can only assume you are commenting again without knowing the facts ONNY.

You're entitled to assume all you like.

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By *teveanddebsCouple over a year ago

Norwich

having worked with the Armed Forces for a fair few years, Marines are not well known for their wisdom.

A very offensive and sweeping statement "

Don't take it to heart, every branch of the Armed Forces slags of the others but you know that if the shit hits the fan they will move heaven and earth to help you out.

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By *B9 QueenWoman over a year ago

Over the rainbow, under the bridge

"shit happens.

that is a disgusting comment."

I don't think it is.

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By *ayjay218Man over a year ago

Aberdeen

"A bad example in a multitude of heroic endeavours by the fallen & those living with scars.

Thank you to the many

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

having worked with the Armed Forces for a fair few years, Marines are not well known for their wisdom.

A very offensive and sweeping statement

Don't take it to heart, every branch of the Armed Forces slags of the others but you know that if the shit hits the fan they will move heaven and earth to help you out."

No problem with other branches of armed forces taking the piss

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" A british soldier done for murder , im ashamed i really am.

And to film it. whats the world comming to

The. Taliban. would of done the same.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" A british soldier done for murder , im ashamed i really am.

And to film it. whats the world comming to

The. Taliban. would of done the same. "

Or worse

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By *teveanddebsCouple over a year ago

Norwich

having worked with the Armed Forces for a fair few years, Marines are not well known for their wisdom.

A very offensive and sweeping statement

Don't take it to heart, every branch of the Armed Forces slags of the others but you know that if the shit hits the fan they will move heaven and earth to help you out.

No problem with other branches of armed forces taking the piss

"Hit that beach Marines"

*SLAP* "Naughty beach"

;)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The issue here is do we lower ourselves to the enemies standards - killing people because we can ..."

Errr...what do you think war is??? Of course we are killing them because we can!!! If we dudn't we'd lose the war!!!!! That's how wars work. Sorry to burst your bubble.

or do we adhere to the conventions and regulation that we have signed up to to be a better fighting force?

The day we walk into battle with our hands tied behind our backs by some pink and fluffy liberal rules is the day we start losing. Or at least find ourselves unable to finish the job. What's it been in afghan..10 years??? Hmmm.....

Nobility and mercy are for the negotiating table, not the battlefield

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

We cannot and must not lower ourselves to their level.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

Of course I know how war works. My point is we shout about how disgusting the Taliban are and how atrocious their actions are yet it's ok for our army to do the same things? Sink to their level?

I'm not ignorant that this is the only time anything like this has happened either.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

"We cannot and must not lower ourselves to their level."

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If the shot taliban had had a bit more strength he would have lifted his gun and shot our marines, or detonated his grenade. Then the "disgraceful" marine would have become " a heroic fallen hero bless them all mwah mwah (add heart symbols as necessary).

It's a shame that some people require this to happen before they get a grasp of what actually happens in war

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

having worked with the Armed Forces for a fair few years, Marines are not well known for their wisdom.

A very offensive and sweeping statement

Don't take it to heart, every branch of the Armed Forces slags of the others but you know that if the shit hits the fan they will move heaven and earth to help you out.

No problem with other branches of armed forces taking the piss

"Hit that beach Marines"

*SLAP* "Naughty beach"

;)"

Lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Of course I know how war works. My point is we shout about how disgusting the Taliban are and how atrocious their actions are yet it's ok for our army to do the same things? Sink to their level?"

If i give you a gun and then start shooting at you, would you shoot me? Or let me carry on?

Cone on, think things through before you post. High-minded ideals just don't work in the battlefield. That's why so few generals are women

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

This wasn't a new recruit straight out of basic training, confused by the fog of war.

He's an experienced NCO who knew what he was doing, gave a running commentary and admitted he'd breached the Geneva Conventions.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"This wasn't a new recruit straight out of basic training, confused by the fog of war.

He's an experienced NCO who knew what he was doing, gave a running commentary and admitted he'd breached the Geneva Conventions."

He is also a bloke that has done what several tours we don't know what he has seen, I'm not condoning what he did but sometimes you have to see the bigger picture with all of this...this war has fucked up so many lives.

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By *ittle_brat_evie!!Woman over a year ago

evesham

"Of course I know how war works. My point is we shout about how disgusting the Taliban are and how atrocious their actions are yet it's ok for our army to do the same things? Sink to their level?

If i give you a gun and then start shooting at you, would you shoot me? Or let me carry on?

Cone on, think things through before you post. High-minded ideals just don't work in the battlefield. That's why so few generals are women"

Of course I would shoot you, it's called self defence but what I wouldn't do is drag you away from the rest of my patrol and shoot you knowing full well and admitting on audio footage that it was contravening a convention that I signed up to up hold even in the heat of battle.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This wasn't a new recruit straight out of basic training, confused by the fog of war.

He's an experienced NCO who knew what he was doing, gave a running commentary and admitted he'd breached the Geneva Conventions."

HE KILLED THE ENEMY that's what he is supposed to do, wake up and smell the coffee

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"This wasn't a new recruit straight out of basic training, confused by the fog of war.

He's an experienced NCO who knew what he was doing, gave a running commentary and admitted he'd breached the Geneva Conventions.

The bigger picture is that HM Armed Forces don't behave like savages.

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

how many of the enemy are just young men so terrified that if they don't do what the others say, they will meet death as their final educational piece.

all so sad.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This wasn't a new recruit straight out of basic training, confused by the fog of war.

He's an experienced NCO who knew what he was doing, gave a running commentary and admitted he'd breached the Geneva Conventions.

The bigger picture is that HM Armed Forces don't behave like savages."
no, they just kill people with their superior firepower and training instead

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"This wasn't a new recruit straight out of basic training, confused by the fog of war.

He's an experienced NCO who knew what he was doing, gave a running commentary and admitted he'd breached the Geneva Conventions.

The bigger picture is that HM Armed Forces don't behave like savages."

It's not like he tied him up and cut off his head or forced him to walk over an Ied that savage...like I said I don't condone what he did...he was fully aware of his actions etc...what about the extremist that kill the soldiers how many have faced trial that we know about...

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

It might be worth re-reading Tim Collins eve of battle speech, even though its regarding Iraq.

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By *isscheekychopsWoman over a year ago

The land of grey peas and bacon

"It might be worth re-reading Tim Collins eve of battle speech, even though its regarding Iraq."

I've read it

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"This wasn't a new recruit straight out of basic training, confused by the fog of war.

He's an experienced NCO who knew what he was doing, gave a running commentary and admitted he'd breached the Geneva Conventions.

The bigger picture is that HM Armed Forces don't behave like savages.no, they just kill people with their superior firepower and training instead

IF we and our allies used our superior firepower, most recent conflicts could have been over in a few days.

We have the capacity to level Afghanistan to the ground.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"not all soldiers are heroes, not all of them sign up to be shining examples of honour and decency, protecting our country and others around the world.

some sign up to legitimately fire guns at other people and the power goes to their head.

I ave no doubt this isnt the only one but i think this case is important to highlight that not al soldiers deserve to be on that pedestal so high in the sky that some put them on.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This wasn't a new recruit straight out of basic training, confused by the fog of war.

He's an experienced NCO who knew what he was doing, gave a running commentary and admitted he'd breached the Geneva Conventions.

The bigger picture is that HM Armed Forces don't behave like savages.no, they just kill people with their superior firepower and training instead

IF we and our allies used our superior firepower, most recent conflicts could have been over in a few days.

We have the capacity to level Afghanistan to the ground."

Exactly. Instead it rumbles on for years and years, to everyone's cost.

Avoid civilian casualties, if people surrender treat them humanely. But if they are soldiers/militia then assume they will kill you unless you kill them first. Fair game. Sometimes you have to be savage to stem the greater loss of life. Look at hiroshima

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

The guy who was murdered was no threat to anyone.

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By *b430Man over a year ago

Tayside

"This wasn't a new recruit straight out of basic training, confused by the fog of war.

He's an experienced NCO who knew what he was doing, gave a running commentary and admitted he'd breached the Geneva Conventions.

HE KILLED THE ENEMY that's what he is supposed to do, wake up and smell the coffee"

If it was what he was supposed to do then he wouldn't have been charged and found guilty of the crime!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It might be a crime in some eyes in this stupid fucked up world but not in mine

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

"It might be a crime in some eyes in this stupid fucked up world but not in mine"

so you accept that the enemy are okay to execute our service men/women by putting a bullet in their head.

you will demonstrate the same level of acceptance that it is all the actions of war.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This wasn't a new recruit straight out of basic training, confused by the fog of war.

He's an experienced NCO who knew what he was doing, gave a running commentary and admitted he'd breached the Geneva Conventions.

The bigger picture is that HM Armed Forces don't behave like savages.no, they just kill people with their superior firepower and training instead

IF we and our allies used our superior firepower, most recent conflicts could have been over in a few days.

We have the capacity to level Afghanistan to the ground."

So did the Russians - & they did!!!

.........& the rest, as they say, is history!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It might be a crime in some eyes in this stupid fucked up world but not in mine

so you accept that the enemy are okay to execute our service men/women by putting a bullet in their head.

you will demonstrate the same level of acceptance that it is all the actions of war."

Of course I don't , but they do, what I am saying is what the soldier done was no worse than what has happened to our soldiers, I hope the soldier gets off on the appeal in a court that he should never of been at in the first place.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"It might be a crime in some eyes in this stupid fucked up world but not in mine

so you accept that the enemy are okay to execute our service men/women by putting a bullet in their head.

you will demonstrate the same level of acceptance that it is all the actions of war.

It doesn't matter that 'they' did it to 'us'.

What this guy did was wrong.

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By *b430Man over a year ago

Tayside

"It might be a crime in some eyes in this stupid fucked up world but not in mine

so you accept that the enemy are okay to execute our service men/women by putting a bullet in their head.

you will demonstrate the same level of acceptance that it is all the actions of war.

It doesn't excuse it though, just because they do it doesn't mean others have to do it too!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 09/11/13 10:39:50]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It might be a crime in some eyes in this stupid fucked up world but not in mine

so you accept that the enemy are okay to execute our service men/women by putting a bullet in their head.

you will demonstrate the same level of acceptance that it is all the actions of war.

It doesn't excuse it though, just because they do it doesn't mean others have to do it too!

In some peoples eyes not in others

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By *b430Man over a year ago

Tayside

"It might be a crime in some eyes in this stupid fucked up world but not in mine

so you accept that the enemy are okay to execute our service men/women by putting a bullet in their head.

you will demonstrate the same level of acceptance that it is all the actions of war.

It doesn't excuse it though, just because they do it doesn't mean others have to do it too!

In some peoples eyes not in others"

OK whatever you say!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It might be a crime in some eyes in this stupid fucked up world but not in mine

so you accept that the enemy are okay to execute our service men/women by putting a bullet in their head.

you will demonstrate the same level of acceptance that it is all the actions of war.

It doesn't excuse it though, just because they do it doesn't mean others have to do it too!

Like I have said numerous times the guy was the Taliban the enemy, live by the sword die by the sword

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

"It might be a crime in some eyes in this stupid fucked up world but not in mine

so you accept that the enemy are okay to execute our service men/women by putting a bullet in their head.

you will demonstrate the same level of acceptance that it is all the actions of war.

It doesn't excuse it though, just because they do it doesn't mean others have to do it too!

Like I have said numerous times the guy was the Taliban the enemy, live by the sword die by the sword"

and our people will be the enemy, live by the sword be executed by the sword.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"It might be a crime in some eyes in this stupid fucked up world but not in mine

so you accept that the enemy are okay to execute our service men/women by putting a bullet in their head.

you will demonstrate the same level of acceptance that it is all the actions of war.

It doesn't excuse it though, just because they do it doesn't mean others have to do it too!

Like I have said numerous times the guy was the Taliban the enemy, live by the sword die by the sword

and our people will be the enemy, live by the sword be executed by the sword."

Twoddle

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

Putting a 9mm in the chest of a defenceless man is no better than the atrocities of WWII.

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By *b430Man over a year ago

Tayside

"It might be a crime in some eyes in this stupid fucked up world but not in mine

so you accept that the enemy are okay to execute our service men/women by putting a bullet in their head.

you will demonstrate the same level of acceptance that it is all the actions of war.

It doesn't excuse it though, just because they do it doesn't mean others have to do it too!

Like I have said numerous times the guy was the Taliban the enemy, live by the sword die by the sword"

You've contradicted yourself, they see our troops as the enemy too, so by your "live by the sword die by the sword" rule you'd see it as ok for them to put that bullet in our troops heads!

You can't have it both ways...

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

Twoddle"

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"It might be a crime in some eyes in this stupid fucked up world but not in mine

so you accept that the enemy are okay to execute our service men/women by putting a bullet in their head.

you will demonstrate the same level of acceptance that it is all the actions of war.

It doesn't excuse it though, just because they do it doesn't mean others have to do it too!

Like I have said numerous times the guy was the Taliban the enemy, live by the sword die by the sword

You've contradicted yourself, they see our troops as the enemy too, so by your "live by the sword die by the sword" rule you'd see it as ok for them to put that bullet in our troops heads!

You can't have it both ways...

There are those who would.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Putting a 9mm in the chest of a defenceless man is no better than the atrocities of WWII."

War is war, our troops will soon be afraid to shoot the enemy at all soon for fear of ending up in court. We should be supporting our troops and not criticising them

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

"Putting a 9mm in the chest of a defenceless man is no better than the atrocities of WWII.

War is war, our troops will soon be afraid to shoot the enemy at all soon for fear of ending up in court. We should be supporting our troops and not criticising them "

I support them, I will pay tribute to them tomorrow and I recognise they are braver than I ever could be.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"Putting a 9mm in the chest of a defenceless man is no better than the atrocities of WWII.

War is war, our troops will soon be afraid to shoot the enemy at all soon for fear of ending up in court. We should be supporting our troops and not criticising them "

Shooting an unarmed man who's lying on the ground isn't war.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The soldier stated he believed the person he shot to already be dead, although this is a breach of the Geneva Convention; but this is a very dirty war and the Taliban are using ancient Afgan tricks (parading of soldiers body parts) to try to to scare troops.

What this soldier did was to display poor judgement, which was no doubt caused by the stress of the situation our troops find themselves in.

Remember we are there to protect innocent men, women and children from rape, torture and murder metered down by the Taliban

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Putting a 9mm in the chest of a defenceless man is no better than the atrocities of WWII.

War is war, our troops will soon be afraid to shoot the enemy at all soon for fear of ending up in court. We should be supporting our troops and not criticising them

I support them, I will pay tribute to them tomorrow and I recognise they are braver than I ever could be.

Doesn't sound like it, to me the Taliban are not even human so I personally would not be bothered about putting a bullet in ones head, they do not care who or how they kill us so for that reason alone I wouldn't be bothered about it and again for the same reason thats why I think the soldier is innocent and should not have been in court.

Sits back and waits for the backlash

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Putting a 9mm in the chest of a defenceless man is no better than the atrocities of WWII.

War is war, our troops will soon be afraid to shoot the enemy at all soon for fear of ending up in court. We should be supporting our troops and not criticising them

Shooting an unarmed man who's lying on the ground isn't war."

Who said he was unarmed

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By *iewMan over a year ago
Forum Mod

Angus & Findhorn

Sits back and waits for the backlash "

none from me, it is your opinion.

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By *nnyMan over a year ago

Glasgow

"Putting a 9mm in the chest of a defenceless man is no better than the atrocities of WWII.

War is war, our troops will soon be afraid to shoot the enemy at all soon for fear of ending up in court. We should be supporting our troops and not criticising them

Shooting an unarmed man who's lying on the ground isn't war.

Who said he was unarmed "

If 3 RMCs hadn't made sure he was unarmed they should go back to basic training.

First thing you do.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Ok so he was armed at some point, hardly unarmed

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By *b430Man over a year ago

Tayside

"Ok so he was armed at some point, hardly unarmed"

But wasn't a threat when he shot him!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Ok so he was armed at some point, hardly unarmed

But wasn't a threat when he shot him!

Oh dear the nasty Taliban man got killed.....oh well never mind I'm sure there are lots more

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Of course I know how war works. My point is we shout about how disgusting the Taliban are and how atrocious their actions are yet it's ok for our army to do the same things? Sink to their level?

I'm not ignorant that this is the only time anything like this has happened either. "

Yes, and of course, now that the "job is done" - who are we negotiating with & about to hand power back to?

Yep, you guessed it, the Taliban!!!

"Ready for the big push, Blackadder?"

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Putting a 9mm in the chest of a defenceless man is no better than the atrocities of WWII.

War is war, our troops will soon be afraid to shoot the enemy at all soon for fear of ending up in court. We should be supporting our troops and not criticising them "

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Free the soldier

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By *b430Man over a year ago

Tayside

"Ok so he was armed at some point, hardly unarmed

But wasn't a threat when he shot him!

Oh dear the nasty Taliban man got killed.....oh well never mind I'm sure there are lots more"

You really are missing the point... never mind, I'm sure you'll be ok with them doing the same to an unarmed UK soldier!

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By *mm_n_ZedCouple over a year ago

Fareham

"The guy who was murdered was no threat to anyone."

... a that point. Once treated and released he would have then been capable (and more than willing) to end the lives of as many British servicemen as he could.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Our armed forces are not there to represent themselves, they are there to represent us. They are there to represent and protect our values as a people.

The individual soldier on the battlefield is not there to represent themselves or their personal beliefs, they have to be bigger than that. A British soldier facing an individual member of the enemy IS Britain as far as that enemy is concerned, and what they do, Britain does.

The real heroes are those who understand this and rise to their chosen responsibility and deliver in circumstances that most of us could not comprehend. True heroes never forget the values they are fighting for and defending, they therefore don't need to hide behind the 'well it's what the enemy do, so we should do the same' mantra. They choose to be better than that.

As a people we believe in fair play, we believe in playing by the rules and most importantly we don't believe in Murder....our military should aspire to that, or they risk representing someone elses values and not ours.

So for the true heroes, for our military, for our core values and for a mother somewhere on the other side of the world who has lost her son, I'm happy that this Marine has been convicted.

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