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Welsh wind turbine
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By *anfiona2 OP Couple
over a year ago
ramsgate |
Just heard on the radio that a wind turbine that was fitted on top of a new council office in Wales at a cost of £48,000 and was hailed by all as a marvel when unveiled has on average produced just £5 worth of electricity a month. Councils answer? Due to mechanical problems it's not been at full capacity, now after it's problems it's up to £9 a month!!!!
That means it'll take 444 years to pay for the initial outlay!
Is it just me or does anyone else think basic maths goes out the window as soon as something "green" is proposed?
I'll just carry on driving my V8 totally guilt free lol |
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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago
Titz Towers, North Notts |
Green solutions are often pricey, but with fossil fuels being finite and their prices rising, they may be the only solution, unless fusion becomes economically viable as a power source.  |
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By *anfiona2 OP Couple
over a year ago
ramsgate |
"Green solutions are often pricey, but with fossil fuels being finite and their prices rising, they may be the only solution, unless fusion becomes economically viable as a power source. "
Pricey!! It makes no financial sense! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Plus somebody is making a bloody fortune out of these turbines!"
Aren't they just!! They've already been paid £26m this year for NOT producing power to the National Grid. Seemingly the Grid sometimes can't cope!!
Wouldn't it be great if the same 'powers that be' provided jobs and then paid the workers for doing nothing??  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The whole "green" thing is a scam playing on people's guilt and fears and I don't buy into it"
How did you work that out?
Seeing as nearly every scientist and climate expert says we are changing the planet,is it a risk worth taking.
The daily mail cherry pick climate change info to make it look like its a scam,it isn't.
The numbers are there to see.
Oil will run out,the future technology needs developing to help fuel our thirst for fossil fuels.
I nor the vast majority are experts but we have to trust them |
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By *anfiona2 OP Couple
over a year ago
ramsgate |
"The whole "green" thing is a scam playing on people's guilt and fears and I don't buy into it
How did you work that out?
Seeing as nearly every scientist and climate expert says we are changing the planet,is it a risk worth taking.
The daily mail cherry pick climate change info to make it look like its a scam,it isn't.
The numbers are there to see.
Oil will run out,the future technology needs developing to help fuel our thirst for fossil fuels.
I nor the vast majority are experts but we have to trust them "
As far as I can see, for every scientist or "climate expert" who says it's all doom and gloom there's another who says it's all rubbish, depends which paper you read or website you visit, furthermore you don't know who is paying these scientists wages
So who do you believe?
But that wasn't my point, my point was that if something is labelled green, huge amounts of money are thrown at it regardless of whether it actually works or makes financial sense
It has become a cash cow and people are making huge amounts of money off the back of it. That's what really annoys me |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Climate change.... Formerly known as global warming 
I happen to have a bit of knowledge on this subject. But instead of boring you rigid with my 2 years and continual learning on the subject I will summarise wind turbines very simply.
They're a crock of poo. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Im doing my bit for the green revolution. All rubbish now gets burned in the log burner to keep heating costs down. Only thing in the bin is ashes.Any metal gets weighed in for cash. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Im doing my bit for the green revolution. All rubbish now gets burned in the log burner to keep heating costs down. Only thing in the bin is ashes.Any metal gets weighed in for cash. "
Can't beat sensible measures  we do the same.
At this time of year though I am reminded how some industries have not been taken to task on waste. Prime example is toys. The packaging is a disgrace. How can they be allowed to continue I wonder .... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Climate change.... Formerly known as global warming
I happen to have a bit of knowledge on this subject. But instead of boring you rigid with my 2 years and continual learning on the subject I will summarise wind turbines very simply.
They're a crock of poo. "
do you have any boring knowledge of hydrogen powered cars? Watched a video about it at work a few years back and it all seemed too good to be true |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Climate change.... Formerly known as global warming
I happen to have a bit of knowledge on this subject. But instead of boring you rigid with my 2 years and continual learning on the subject I will summarise wind turbines very simply.
They're a crock of poo.
do you have any boring knowledge of hydrogen powered cars? Watched a video about it at work a few years back and it all seemed too good to be true "
I'm afraid my specialist field is the obliteration of the British countryside by people who seem to think the British tax payers pockets are deeper than they actually are. Ignorant, sometimes vain in their efforts to save the planet - because clearly captain UK is capable of doing this despite other major economies like China - where the turbines are made by the way - having little / no commitment to carbon reduction.
Just saying like  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Hello Danfiona,
there seem to be too many people that think that as wind is free, then wind power is cheap. Well they haven't done their sums or understand how variable the wind is and how relatively ineffective it is, a real red herring. Much the same as wave power in my view.
Alec |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Hello Danfiona,
there seem to be too many people that think that as wind is free, then wind power is cheap. Well they haven't done their sums or understand how variable the wind is and how relatively ineffective it is, a real red herring. Much the same as wave power in my view.
Alec"
And the places where there's lots of wind and wave power are a long way from where the bulk of the demand is.
Moving leccy around isn't cheap. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Pro wind plonkas put their blinkers on to manufacturing, transportation accross the globe and infrastructure of co2 production.
Here's a fact. A five turbine development produces 1 lorry every 15 minutes for a year. Working hours mon- fri 8-6pm and some Saturday's. That's like a lot of co2 production!!!
Go figure .... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Hello Danfiona,
there seem to be too many people that think that as wind is free, then wind power is cheap. Well they haven't done their sums or understand how variable the wind is and how relatively ineffective it is, a real red herring. Much the same as wave power in my view.
Alec
And the places where there's lots of wind and wave power are a long way from where the bulk of the demand is.
Moving leccy around isn't cheap."
I read that energy from wind turbines can't be stored?? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Hello Danfiona,
there seem to be too many people that think that as wind is free, then wind power is cheap. Well they haven't done their sums or understand how variable the wind is and how relatively ineffective it is, a real red herring. Much the same as wave power in my view.
Alec
And the places where there's lots of wind and wave power are a long way from where the bulk of the demand is.
Moving leccy around isn't cheap.
I read that energy from wind turbines can't be stored?? "
One the grid is at capacity the wind farms are told to switch off. The British taxpayer then pays the energy company for this downtime.
You couldn't make it up ..... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Hello Danfiona,
there seem to be too many people that think that as wind is free, then wind power is cheap. Well they haven't done their sums or understand how variable the wind is and how relatively ineffective it is, a real red herring. Much the same as wave power in my view.
Alec
And the places where there's lots of wind and wave power are a long way from where the bulk of the demand is.
Moving leccy around isn't cheap.
I read that energy from wind turbines can't be stored?? "
Its D.C. direct Current , think that's means use it or lose it , must be a electro engineer around who can explain it better than that .  |
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By *anfiona2 OP Couple
over a year ago
ramsgate |
"Hello Danfiona,
there seem to be too many people that think that as wind is free, then wind power is cheap. Well they haven't done their sums or understand how variable the wind is and how relatively ineffective it is, a real red herring. Much the same as wave power in my view.
Alec
And the places where there's lots of wind and wave power are a long way from where the bulk of the demand is.
Moving leccy around isn't cheap.
I read that energy from wind turbines can't be stored??
One the grid is at capacity the wind farms are told to switch off. The British taxpayer then pays the energy company for this downtime.
You couldn't make it up ....."
Nice to know someone agrees with me  |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Hello Danfiona,
there seem to be too many people that think that as wind is free, then wind power is cheap. Well they haven't done their sums or understand how variable the wind is and how relatively ineffective it is, a real red herring. Much the same as wave power in my view.
Alec
And the places where there's lots of wind and wave power are a long way from where the bulk of the demand is.
Moving leccy around isn't cheap.
I read that energy from wind turbines can't be stored?? "
The only real way is batteries. BIG expensive batteries. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Hello Danfiona,
there seem to be too many people that think that as wind is free, then wind power is cheap. Well they haven't done their sums or understand how variable the wind is and how relatively ineffective it is, a real red herring. Much the same as wave power in my view.
Alec
And the places where there's lots of wind and wave power are a long way from where the bulk of the demand is.
Moving leccy around isn't cheap.
I read that energy from wind turbines can't be stored??
Its D.C. direct Current , think that's means use it or lose it , must be a electro engineer around who can explain it better than that . "
I thought not. They said getting it to where it was needed was too expensive |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I dont think anyone cant say we are a cancer on the planet to be honest, a pretty much self defeating conscious cancer, the world will most likely continue without us..we however may not
fast forward 444 years down the line and maybe we wont look back thinking these 'costly' measures were a waste of time, unfortunately like the Op has said, as long as the here and now is ok |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Hello Danfiona,
there seem to be too many people that think that as wind is free, then wind power is cheap. Well they haven't done their sums or understand how variable the wind is and how relatively ineffective it is, a real red herring. Much the same as wave power in my view.
Alec
And the places where there's lots of wind and wave power are a long way from where the bulk of the demand is.
Moving leccy around isn't cheap.
I read that energy from wind turbines can't be stored??
Its D.C. direct Current , think that's means use it or lose it , must be a electro engineer around who can explain it better than that .
I thought not. They said getting it to where it was needed was too expensive "
I believe you can use spare power to DO something, like lift a weight and then use the dropping weight to generate power but its very inefficient and expensive. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Hello Danfiona,
there seem to be too many people that think that as wind is free, then wind power is cheap. Well they haven't done their sums or understand how variable the wind is and how relatively ineffective it is, a real red herring. Much the same as wave power in my view.
Alec
And the places where there's lots of wind and wave power are a long way from where the bulk of the demand is.
Moving leccy around isn't cheap.
I read that energy from wind turbines can't be stored??
Its D.C. direct Current , think that's means use it or lose it , must be a electro engineer around who can explain it better than that .
I thought not. They said getting it to where it was needed was too expensive
I believe you can use spare power to DO something, like lift a weight and then use the dropping weight to generate power but its very inefficient and expensive."
That could come in handy if we could get a big weight over parliament and drop it into all the pussy footing MPs and the treasury who are pouring OUR money down the drain. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Talking bout Parliament , does anybody have an estimate on how many took part in the Anonymous Million people march that took place in London on the 5th ?...only there seems to be nothing mentioned in the MSM .  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I dont think anyone cant say we are a cancer on the planet to be honest, a pretty much self defeating conscious cancer, the world will most likely continue without us..we however may not
fast forward 444 years down the line and maybe we wont look back thinking these 'costly' measures were a waste of time, unfortunately like the Op has said, as long as the here and now is ok "
But that's the point; of course the planet will survive, we're just mere bacteria living - & multiplying to quick - on the surface. It's our great, great..............grandkids whole be facing one hell of a dilemma! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I dont think anyone cant say we are a cancer on the planet to be honest, a pretty much self defeating conscious cancer, the world will most likely continue without us..we however may not
fast forward 444 years down the line and maybe we wont look back thinking these 'costly' measures were a waste of time, unfortunately like the Op has said, as long as the here and now is ok
But that's the point; of course the planet will survive, we're just mere bacteria living - & multiplying to quick - on the surface. It's our great, great..............grandkids whole be facing one hell of a dilemma! "
In 444 years the planet will have shown temperature change up and down. Just like it has before. Remember them wee little dinos that were killed off in the ice age ? And then the planet warned up .... A fuckin lot from my reckoning |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"I dont think anyone cant say we are a cancer on the planet to be honest, a pretty much self defeating conscious cancer, the world will most likely continue without us..we however may not
fast forward 444 years down the line and maybe we wont look back thinking these 'costly' measures were a waste of time, unfortunately like the Op has said, as long as the here and now is ok
But that's the point; of course the planet will survive, we're just mere bacteria living - & multiplying to quick - on the surface. It's our great, great..............grandkids whole be facing one hell of a dilemma! "
We, the planet, seem pretty good at adapting to huge changes.
We might look different or eat different stuff but we'll survive again.
More worrying is that the way we reproduce might change. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I hope it doesnt sound like I'm a 'green' person, I understand the world isnt as static as people think, but it doesnt really give us the excuse to carry on being the worlds biggest arseholes...especially when we have adapted this weird functioning thing between our ears
on air,land and sea...we have a responsibility...if we sat back and just let everyone destroy and plunder, then we are no better than the animals we share the world with(I mean for managing our environment- animals are great) |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"But we are not the planet - we just live on it - just like them little wee dinosaurs who became extinct! )"
we are made up of of the processes that make planets..its a pretty hard thing to escape |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I hope it doesnt sound like I'm a 'green' person, I understand the world isnt as static as people think, but it doesnt really give us the excuse to carry on being the worlds biggest arseholes...especially when we have adapted this weird functioning thing between our ears
on air,land and sea...we have a responsibility...if we sat back and just let everyone destroy and plunder, then we are no better than the animals we share the world with(I mean for managing our environment- animals are great)"
With sensible measures yes. I work in an industry - building services) that has made significant improvements in technology in the last 15 years. No 444 year paybacks  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I bet if anyone asked their local council for a map of proposed / accepted / in appeal applications for turbines you'd be shocked.
The developers know they're up against time and are flooding our local planning offices with very long drawn out applications. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There's too many of us, considering we'll have doubled in number in 30 years
THE END IS NIGH!! "
"We're all doomed"
...maybe but I still disagree with large costly erections everywhere |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Scotland's hydro electric schemes have done well over the years.
Plenty places where we could build more, well hidden and, with 21st century technology, more efficient."
There you go ........
"The output of the Cruachan hydro electric power station in Argyll could be more than doubled under plans revealed by Scottish Power.
The company is to carry out a two-year feasibility study before deciding whether to go ahead with the project.
Its rival, SSE, has already announced plans for the Coire Glas hydro electricity scheme in Lochaber.
The Scottish government has said the country could be "on the verge of a new generation of hydro power".
This could "rival the revolution in the glens" which saw electricity taken to the Highlands in the 1950s, it added.
Cruachan power station
Construction work at Cruachan started in 1959
The 440MW power station at Cruachan, near Oban, is one of only four pump storage hydro plants in the UK and plays a key role in balancing the country's electricity system.
The expansion project could see it generate 1,040MW."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-26124572 |
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"The whole "green" thing is a scam playing on people's guilt and fears and I don't buy into it
As far as I can see, for every scientist or "climate expert" who says it's all doom and gloom there's another who says it's all rubbish, depends which paper you read or website you visit, furthermore you don't know who is paying these scientists wages
So who do you believe?
But that wasn't my point, my point was that if something is labelled green, huge amounts of money are thrown at it regardless of whether it actually works or makes financial sense
It has become a cash cow and people are making huge amounts of money off the back of it. That's what really annoys me"
Wow how insightful, it is really good to see that you're not being sucked into all this crap about climate change and how we are endangering our own survival. After all we all know that we can trust every word coming out of the experts bought and paid for by the petrochemical industry, after all they have no interest in expanding our use of fossil fuels. And of course there is no history of any industry lying to the world and being responsible for millions of deaths in order to increase their profits.
By the way, where did you stand on smoking in the 60/70/80/90s and now (smoking in cars with children in them)? Were you one of the anti smoking campaigners or did/do you back the tobacco industry killers? |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
The notion that "that if something is labelled green, huge amounts of money are thrown at it regardless of whether it actually works or makes financial sense" is fading fast.
Investment and planned investment in off-shore wind has dropped dramatically recently. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Hello Onny,
"The 440MW power station at Cruachan, near Oban, is one of only four pump storage hydro plants in the UK and plays a key role in balancing the country's electricity system."
As you say it balances the electricity system by using spare capacity at night to fill the reservoirs and delivering power at peak times. It is one way that power can be stored, however it doesn't do a lot for the overall extra capacity we really need.
What we are seeing is a desperate installation of fairly quick to build small output stations to cover for the lack of planning to build decent sized stations 10 or fifteen years ago.
Alec |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"The notion that "that if something is labelled green, huge amounts of money are thrown at it regardless of whether it actually works or makes financial sense" is fading fast.
Investment and planned investment in off-shore wind has dropped dramatically recently."
And, if proof were needed, .......
"Energy supplier SSE says it will freeze domestic gas and electricity prices at their current levels until 2016.
The move comes after many of the "big six" UK energy firms raised their tariffs at the end of last year.
SSE, whose companies include Swalec, said the freeze would lower profits, but it would "streamline" its business to cover the shortfall.
The company announced it would cut 500 jobs and shelve four planned offshore wind farm developments."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26743048 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Climate change.... Formerly known as global warming
I happen to have a bit of knowledge on this subject. But instead of boring you rigid with my 2 years and continual learning on the subject I will summarise wind turbines very simply.
They're a crock of poo.
do you have any boring knowledge of hydrogen powered cars? Watched a video about it at work a few years back and it all seemed too good to be true "
I saw that video too. Wonder if we worked together |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Scotland's hydro electric schemes have done well over the years.
Plenty places where we could build more, well hidden and, with 21st century technology, more efficient.
There you go ........
"The output of the Cruachan hydro electric power station in Argyll could be more than doubled under plans revealed by Scottish Power.
The company is to carry out a two-year feasibility study before deciding whether to go ahead with the project.
Its rival, SSE, has already announced plans for the Coire Glas hydro electricity scheme in Lochaber.
The Scottish government has said the country could be "on the verge of a new generation of hydro power".
This could "rival the revolution in the glens" which saw electricity taken to the Highlands in the 1950s, it added.
Cruachan power station
Construction work at Cruachan started in 1959
The 440MW power station at Cruachan, near Oban, is one of only four pump storage hydro plants in the UK and plays a key role in balancing the country's electricity system.
The expansion project could see it generate 1,040MW."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-26124572"
will this kind of scheme work around London where huge amounts of electricity are used ? |
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We do have to explore and invest into green power solutions. When you say tiffs with countries such as Russia, who may be a power supplier that you fall out with, it is far better to be self-sufficient.
Climate change due to human activity is now decided, and this coming century is likely to have major catastrophes and problems, even here for us in the UK.
Energy prices will continue to rise from now, potentially even more dramatically than they have been. With economies of scale, the production costs for green energy are falling, especially as better technology is developed, such as for solar electricity panels.
It's got to be good sound intelligent sense to focus on this, as our UK population is rising, and we've become reliant on electricity and gas to such a large extent.
This doesn't mean that it's not foolhardy to buy technology that's over-priced, and produces little. That's just stupid. Every investment has to be planned, and the ROI appropriate.
There are nutcases out there who try to deny climate change is due to us. And they've had far too much media coverage, even by the BBC, which should be more responsible. Scientists balancing opinions is great, but not the majority of expert scientists vs some mad man on a panel to 'balance' it. |
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It would seem that the manufacturers of this device warned the council that the location was unsuitable - this type of device should produce around 9,000KWh/pa, this one will only ever do about 700KWh/pa.
We need to get off fossil fuel, it's too valuable (and finite) to just burn it, whether you believe in warmism or not.
There is no one single panacea, but at present, wind, wave, solar, hydro, biomass, geothermal are all things that I think we should be developing and investing in.
I'm not a fan of fission as the waste products are too dangerous and long lived.
When I first did some nuclear physics back in the 80's, fusion was about 5 to 10 years away - it still is. Though the promise of unlimited clean energy with useful and safe by products, is well worth the continued research and development.
If we could develop the engineering, then geo thermal has to be the greatest resource available. The Earth's crust is like the thickness of apple peel on an apple (where else). The rest is molten rock (SiAl, SiMa). In places where the crust is extremely thin due to fault lines, e.g. Iceland, pumping water down bore holes, gives you instant steam, used to drive electricity generating turbines. The waste warm water is then pumped around the towns for domestic and commercial heating. |
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» Add a new message to this topic
before Xmas but because they had a big job on, we couldn`t get a replacement window until half term this year. When it arrived it was ....... too small 
They also have a bio-mass/warm air heating system which they recently found was pooling water in some of the air ducts! 