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Uk ship building
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News broke this morning about the ending of ship building in Portsmouth after 500 years
No news yet on the ones in Glasgow
Stinks of politics and a fear of upsetting the Scottish before a referendum to me
Wtf is happening to this country
It's being torn apart slowly and surely |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Saving warship building on the Clyde will do more to keep the UK together than anything else."
I agree with that and think we are better off as the UK but I feel for the people of Portsmouth loosing their jobs
Also why can we not export ships anymore I know some countries can undercut our labour market but not all
Liners built in Germany and Italy on budget and on time as far as I am aware |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Saving warship building on the Clyde will do more to keep the UK together than anything else.
I agree with that and think we are better off as the UK but I feel for the people of Portsmouth loosing their jobs
Also why can we not export ships anymore I know some countries can undercut our labour market but not all
Liners built in Germany and Italy on budget and on time as far as I am aware "
It's down to cost. The Scottish Executive has ordered a ferry to serve Lewis - from a yard in Germany. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Saving warship building on the Clyde will do more to keep the UK together than anything else.
I agree with that and think we are better off as the UK but I feel for the people of Portsmouth loosing their jobs
Also why can we not export ships anymore I know some countries can undercut our labour market but not all
Liners built in Germany and Italy on budget and on time as far as I am aware
It's down to cost. The Scottish Executive has ordered a ferry to serve Lewis - from a yard in Germany."
I wonder how many ships we build for the Germans or French, our government stitching up British workers. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Saving warship building on the Clyde will do more to keep the UK together than anything else.
I agree with that and think we are better off as the UK but I feel for the people of Portsmouth loosing their jobs
Also why can we not export ships anymore I know some countries can undercut our labour market but not all
Liners built in Germany and Italy on budget and on time as far as I am aware
It's down to cost. The Scottish Executive has ordered a ferry to serve Lewis - from a yard in Germany."
I understand that's the first thought but other financial factors come into cost and why should the UK consumer ,private sector company or any foreign buyers care about buying UK goods if any part of the UK government can not take the lead an buy British . It is the lead we need to help us not only out of recession but to prosper in the future |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I didn't realise we still built ships in Portsmouth. Its a shame that another industry is dying out, but with global economics, I guess it makes sense to build cheaper elsewhere. I am assuming that the quality will be similar wherever its built, as these things are built to exacting specifications. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I didn't realise we still built ships in Portsmouth. Its a shame that another industry is dying out, but with global economics, I guess it makes sense to build cheaper elsewhere. I am assuming that the quality will be similar wherever its built, as these things are built to exacting specifications."
So we just build everything overseas to import into this country
I work in Germany quite often their wages are defiantly not lower than ours
And like for like I don't think quality is any better
It's not the fault just of this government but they shoulder part of the blame the cancelation of Nimrod springs to mind as the PM said we can buy off the Americans if necessary but we loose the technology an ability to construct in the future
Getting back to ship building we are an island nation should we not have a strong ship building base |
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Does the government have a stake in BAE systems? I guess not.
Questions will be asked of the government about bailouts I assume but it is too late for this decision.
Certain industries should be ring fenced or subsidised in order for the UK to win sales and maintain its manufacturing edge, capability and knowledge. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Does the government have a stake in BAE systems? I guess not.
Questions will be asked of the government about bailouts I assume but it is too late for this decision.
Certain industries should be ring fenced or subsidised in order for the UK to win sales and maintain its manufacturing edge, capability and knowledge. "
I believe the government do have a golden share in BAE systems |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"they could have waited on making a decision until after the scottish referendum.... because it is going to look bad for an english navy to basically "buy scottish"....."
I would agree with that
As I have said I believe we are better off as the UK
However if the scots decide to leave the UK
They want our nuclear subs out
Would we really be expected to leave our navel ship building on the Clyde or tax offices in Cumbernauld ?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"they could have waited on making a decision until after the scottish referendum.... because it is going to look bad for an english navy to basically "buy scottish"....."
English navy? Surely it's still a UK Royal Navy. When Scotland takes the plunge it's still the rest of the Uk.
And why is it acceptable to buy ships from Germany, US etc yet it's an absolute 'No way' to buying from an Independent Scotland?
Lot if 'political' conspiracy being thrown around about this just now. It's 900 jobs at Portsmouth and over 800 in Glasgow going - 100 between them. It's shit for both. There's no real winner. Portsmouth still doing Re-Fit work, as Rosyth still does - though no doubt once the carrier is built that will stop in favour of Portsmouth. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
In the increasingly unlikely event of Separation going ahead, the SNP's insistence on being a member of the EU will make it subject to EU procurement rules. That puts all non- military shipbuilding out to tender.
Experience shows we can't win these on price and EU law precludes subsidising our shipyards for commercial work.
That leaves only 'Scottish' Royal Navy ships that can be built in Scotland. How many ships will a Scottish Navy need? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"they could have waited on making a decision until after the scottish referendum.... because it is going to look bad for an english navy to basically "buy scottish".....
English navy? Surely it's still a UK Royal Navy. When Scotland takes the plunge it's still the rest of the
And why is it acceptable to buy ships from Germany, US etc yet it's an absolute 'No way' to buying from an Independent Scotland?
RN ships are in the main purchased /built in the UK I would expect that to continue of the people of Scotland decide to leave the UK and if they do good luck to them
However I would expect the RN to have a fleet of in the main UK ships and UK government offices to be in the UK and the same to apply to Scotland's navy and government offices
Common sense I would have thought
Lot if 'political' conspiracy being thrown around about this just now. It's 900 jobs at Portsmouth and over 800 in Glasgow going - 100 between them. It's shit for both. There's no real winner. Portsmouth still doing Re-Fit work, as Rosyth still does - though no doubt once the carrier is built that will stop in favour of Portsmouth."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"In the increasingly unlikely event of Separation going ahead, the SNP's insistence on being a member of the EU will make it subject to EU procurement rules. That puts all non- military shipbuilding out to tender.
Experience shows we can't win these on price and EU law precludes subsidising our shipyards for
commercial work.
That leaves only 'Scottish' Royal Navy ships that can be built in Scotland. How many ships will a Scottish Navy need?"
Not even got that many fish to protect now days
I hope the union remains intact and the economy recovers for all of us |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"CaMoron has just said that if Scotland vote for independence there will be no naval shipbuilding in the UK!
Yet again Tories put profit in front of everything including National Security! "
It will return to the UK if Scotland vote for independence he will have no choice neither will BAE if they wish to carry on shipbuilding for the RN |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Saving warship building on the Clyde will do more to keep the UK together than anything else.
I agree with that and think we are better off as the UK but I feel for the people of Portsmouth loosing their jobs
Also why can we not export ships anymore I know some countries can undercut our labour market but not all
Liners built in Germany and Italy on budget and on time as far as I am aware
It's down to cost. The Scottish Executive has ordered a ferry to serve Lewis - from a yard in Germany."
which begs the question, why should the UK government lead the way in saving scottish jobs when their own 'rulers' arent interested, until it comes to playing to voters that dont look into things properly.
personally, all these contracts that are going overseas, i dont like it.
i would rather the government pay 10% more on the cost and keep the work 'in house' especially in those industries that seem to be struggling. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Having just seen the news, I think its deplorable that workers in Portsmouth have been thrown on the scrap heap just to win some political points in Scotland.
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Saving warship building on the Clyde will do more to keep the UK together than anything else.
I agree with that and think we are better off as the UK but I feel for the people of Portsmouth loosing their jobs
Also why can we not export ships anymore I know some countries can undercut our labour market but not all
Liners built in Germany and Italy on budget and on time as far as I am aware
It's down to cost. The Scottish Executive has ordered a ferry to serve Lewis - from a yard in Germany.
which begs the question, why should the UK government lead the way in saving scottish jobs when their own 'rulers' arent interested, until it comes to playing to voters that dont look into things properly.
personally, all these contracts that are going overseas, i dont like it.
i would rather the government pay 10% more on the cost and keep the work 'in house' especially in those industries that seem to be struggling."
Whilst I'm anti-Separation, the SNP had no choice but to put the tender for the ferry out to EU wide tender. A yard in Germany won the contract.
The SNP are desperate to be in the EU. IF that happens, the situation will continue.
Scotland will lose any tenders for commercial vessels on price and there'll be virtually no demand for advanced surface military ships for a 'Scottish' Navy.
Obviously Mr Salmond will want his own Royal Yacht but there's a perfectly serviceable one lying at Leith - Clyde built, one careful owner. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Saving warship building on the Clyde will do more to keep the UK together than anything else.
I agree with that and think we are better off as the UK but I feel for the people of Portsmouth loosing their jobs
Also why can we not export ships anymore I know some countries can undercut our labour market but not all
Liners built in Germany and Italy on budget and on time as far as I am aware
It's down to cost. The Scottish Executive has ordered a ferry to serve Lewis - from a yard in Germany.
which begs the question, why should the UK government lead the way in saving scottish jobs when their own 'rulers' arent interested, until it comes to playing to voters that dont look into things properly.
personally, all these contracts that are going overseas, i dont like it.
i would rather the government pay 10% more on the cost and keep the work 'in house' especially in those industries that seem to be struggling.
Whilst I'm anti-Separation, the SNP had no choice but to put the tender for the ferry out to EU wide tender. A yard in Germany won the contract.
The SNP are desperate to be in the EU. IF that happens, the situation will continue.
Scotland will lose any tenders for commercial vessels on price and there'll be virtually no demand for advanced surface military ships for a 'Scottish' Navy.
Obviously Mr Salmond will want his own Royal Yacht but there's a perfectly serviceable one lying at Leith - Clyde built, one careful owner."
I'm certain a politician south of the border has his eyes on the said yacht
There are circumstances where contracts are not put out to tender but there have to be sound economic reasons for a region to be given such a contract |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"News broke this morning about the ending of ship building in Portsmouth after 500 years
No news yet on the ones in Glasgow
Stinks of politics and a fear of upsetting the Scottish before a referendum to me
Wtf is happening to this country
It's being torn apart slowly and surely "
835 jobs to go in Scotland. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"
..............
There are circumstances where contracts are not put out to tender but there have to be sound economic reasons for a region to be given such a contract "
Agreed but the reasons aren't usually economic.
The usual exemptions are where it's
Secret - when a contract/requirement has been classified as Secret or where protection of the basic interests of the security of the UK dictates that no public advert should be placed
Procurement of war-like stores (Article 296 of EC Treaty)
Where as a result of an International Agreement, different award procedures apply.
Advanced surface vessels come into the first and their weapons systems and armaments come into the second.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It is sad to see the final demise of the ship building industries, the glory days have been gone a long time and we are far from competitive anymore. I'm not sure we even have the steel industry to support a ship building industry anymore. Having to import the metal required to build the ship makes it more expensive. Our navy is a fraction of its previous size and commercial ship building is tiny, if we're worried about the loss of a small ferry it shows the depths to which the ship building industry has fallen. All we'll have is small coasters being built and not very many of them.
How do you re-employ 1800 dockyard workers who have been working in heavy industry? Many will struggle to find suitable work in their local areas. I did my apprenticeship in a mod repair yard which has shrunk from 10's of thousands in the Cold War era down to a couple of thousand. Getting suitable work involved moving away and nowadays the industry I moved to is a fraction of what it was. |
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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"Having just seen the news, I think its deplorable that workers in Portsmouth have been thrown on the scrap heap just to win some political points in Scotland.
"
This was a decision made purely on economics,not politics.
people should look at the figures,before making any judgement,or seeing the decision as anything more sinister,than pure economics.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Having just seen the news, I think its deplorable that workers in Portsmouth have been thrown on the scrap heap just to win some political points in Scotland.
This was a decision made purely on economics,not politics.
people should look at the figures,before making any judgement,or seeing the decision as anything more sinister,than pure economics.
Taking pure economics into account do you think a uk government would leave RN shipbuilding on the Clyde if Scotland decide to leave the union whether that is unlikely or not
Or would it be political Suicide to do so
"
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