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Petrolheads only - deep question!
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
Oh it's getting a bit deep here, I am comparing PS, Nm, and 0-60 on my old Mk II 1.8 Golf Gti, my current Focus 2l Ghia, and a new Fiesta 1.00 Ecobost, which comes in 2ps versions.
I found most of the figures and they are astonishing (these are PS, Nm and 0-60 respectively)
Golf Gti 112/155 8.2
Focus 2lGhia 130/178 9.2
Fiesta 125/200 9.4
Fiesta 100/170 11.2
With me so far?
Trying to decide between the two Fiestas, drove both at Brands Hatch and couldn't really feel the difference revving and accelerating hard (small track anyway) - so how would I test the difference? Something like doing 50mph in top and then putting my foot down and seeing if one responds better or not??
And I'm also wondering why the golf was so much faster - I thought it was just more torquey, but apparently not, was it just 'tuning' or something?? The Vw injection system??? If it wasn't about PS or Nm then what?
Not really into all this, just can't decide whether to wait 3 months for the more powerful one or not..... |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
"Well going by those figures you want a golf gti
I used to have a mk1 and have never had such a fun car since. "
I do, I loved my MkII, but I can't afford one now. I can have the smaller PS Fiesta tomorrow, or wait 3 months for the larger one - and of course I want the 125 tomorrow! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Oh it's getting a bit deep here, I am comparing PS, Nm, and 0-60 on my old Mk II 1.8 Golf Gti, my current Focus 2l Ghia, and a new Fiesta 1.00 Ecobost, which comes in 2ps versions.
I found most of the figures and they are astonishing (these are PS, Nm and 0-60 respectively)
Golf Gti 112/155 8.2
Focus 2lGhia 130/178 9.2
Fiesta 125/200 9.4
Fiesta 100/170 11.2
With me so far?
Trying to decide between the two Fiestas, drove both at Brands Hatch and couldn't really feel the difference revving and accelerating hard (small track anyway) - so how would I test the difference? Something like doing 50mph in top and then putting my foot down and seeing if one responds better or not??
And I'm also wondering why the golf was so much faster - I thought it was just more torquey, but apparently not, was it just 'tuning' or something?? The Vw injection system??? If it wasn't about PS or Nm then what?
Not really into all this, just can't decide whether to wait 3 months for the more powerful one or not....."
Marry me!!! 
Lol from experience, not just mine, you can't beat the golf gti. It wins hands down every time. Great fun, great looking and more to it than just what's on the outside    |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
"
Marry me!!!
Lol from experience, not just mine, you can't beat the golf gti. It wins hands down every time. Great fun, great looking and more to it than just what's on the outside "
Yes I know but WHY? It's only 155 Nm - so why is it so torquey? I am assuming higher Nm should be better, no? |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
"Are these new Fiestas you are comparing with an older Golf?
If so, priorities have changed; the buzzword is MPG now not BHP. "
Ah yes indeedy, and these Fiestas get 65 combined with zero road tax - win-win!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Are these new Fiestas you are comparing with an older Golf?
If so, priorities have changed; the buzzword is MPG now not BHP.
Ah yes indeedy, and these Fiestas get 65 combined with zero road tax - win-win!!"
Exactly compared with the Golf which does what? Low 30s? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The golf is lighter i do belive with a lively engine. X
Ah of course, it might've been weight."
Yeah, your golf may not have been weighted down with air con etc etc
I'm sure if you compared a modern Fester to a mk1 the mk1 would look and feel like a scrawny lightweight
My ex wife used to hate it when I called her fiesta a fester...
If you like a car with a bit of go, which it sounds like you do, then it may be better for you to wait, no one likes waiting but when you have to live with the car for I assume at least a few years you don't want to be kicking yourself in 3 months. |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
"Are these new Fiestas you are comparing with an older Golf?
If so, priorities have changed; the buzzword is MPG now not BHP.
Ah yes indeedy, and these Fiestas get 65 combined with zero road tax - win-win!!
Exactly compared with the Golf which does what? Low 30s?"
Can't remember what the Golf did, but the Ghia does about that yes, so need to change! |
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If you want my honest opinion get the car that best souts you driving needs ie space cost how much youll drive it an if your talking new don't forget the all important loss your gona take the second you drive out the forecourt an then look twice if its really werth all them crispy hard earned notes. Then spend a little as possible an use it like its ment as a tool. after that count them crispys up an go get your self some real performance if that your thing an get yourself what ever bike you feel fits you best. Sorry I love my cars an always will but unless you've a spare what 150/200 grand my £10.750 sex on wheels will kick your cars arse every single time.....well you did ask  |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
"The golf is lighter i do belive with a lively engine. X
Ah of course, it might've been weight.
Yeah, your golf may not have been weighted down with air con etc etc
I'm sure if you compared a modern Fester to a mk1 the mk1 would look and feel like a scrawny lightweight
My ex wife used to hate it when I called her fiesta a fester...
If you like a car with a bit of go, which it sounds like you do, then it may be better for you to wait, no one likes waiting but when you have to live with the car for I assume at least a few years you don't want to be kicking yourself in 3 months. "
I think - my impatience is trying to convince me otherwise, but I tend to drive the damn things into the ground so.......  |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
"If you want my honest opinion get the car that best souts you driving needs ie space cost how much youll drive it an if your talking new don't forget the all important loss your gona take the second you drive out the forecourt an then look twice if its really werth all them crispy hard earned notes. Then spend a little as possible an use it like its ment as a tool. after that count them crispys up an go get your self some real performance if that your thing an get yourself what ever bike you feel fits you best. Sorry I love my cars an always will but unless you've a spare what 150/200 grand my £10.750 sex on wheels will kick your cars arse every single time.....well you did ask "
Loved my BSA too.......loooong time ago!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think torque is highest at lower revs than the highest revs which is where the bhp/ps is highest.
So higher torque is pulling from lower revs whilst ps is when your a 1000 rpm below the red line. |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
"I think torque is highest at lower revs than the highest revs which is where the bhp/ps is highest.
So higher torque is pulling from lower revs whilst ps is when your a 1000 rpm below the red line. "
Yes, I always thought of torque as that ability to 'pick up' from anywhere, which the Gti had, unsurpassed. But it was only 155Nm compared to these other three which are higher, so there must be more to it than that? Unless the lower the number the more the pickup - no can't be. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Are these new Fiestas you are comparing with an older Golf?
If so, priorities have changed; the buzzword is MPG now not BHP. "
Not much of a petrolhead comment  |
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If you've got a bike licence then as you must be an ex biker go book yourself a test ride an trust me the old love affair will start all over again but this time smoother faster an so so much better. To compare a modern bike with your old bsa although its conciderd a classic its like comparing a duble decker bus to mitcy evo they are worlds apart |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
"If you've got a bike licence then as you must be an ex biker go book yourself a test ride an trust me the old love affair will start all over again but this time smoother faster an so so much better. To compare a modern bike with your old bsa although its conciderd a classic its like comparing a duble decker bus to mitcy evo they are worlds apart"
I know, but I want a kickstart and an engine that goes chug-chug-chug!! If I win the lottery, I'll get a little cruiser to play with as well one day, but the vintage frocks require a car... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think torque is highest at lower revs than the highest revs which is where the bhp/ps is highest.
So higher torque is pulling from lower revs whilst ps is when your a 1000 rpm below the red line.
Yes, I always thought of torque as that ability to 'pick up' from anywhere, which the Gti had, unsurpassed. But it was only 155Nm compared to these other three which are higher, so there must be more to it than that? Unless the lower the number the more the pickup - no can't be."
It's got to be about the power to weight ratio I think, modern cars have a lot more equipment in them than older ones and models tend to get larger over the years. Manufacturers aren't always too honest with their claimed figures either. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Gear ratios also don't forget.
This is why I bought up older and newer cars MPG, priorities have changed and cars have adapted to reflect this. Apples and oranges. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I have no idea what any of this means? All I know is ive got a Leon FR 2.0 tdi and I picked cause it looks good and it goes fast! That's all I look for in a car lol |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If you want my honest opinion get the car that best souts you driving needs ie space cost how much youll drive it an if your talking new don't forget the all important loss your gona take the second you drive out the forecourt an then look twice if its really werth all them crispy hard earned notes. Then spend a little as possible an use it like its ment as a tool. after that count them crispys up an go get your self some real performance if that your thing an get yourself what ever bike you feel fits you best. Sorry I love my cars an always will but unless you've a spare what 150/200 grand my £10.750 sex on wheels will kick your cars arse every single time.....well you did ask "
I almost killed myself on a pedal bike. A mate let me have a go on his brand new gsx600 a few years ago after thinking because I was ok on motogp on the xbox I'd be ok on his brand new bike... That thing was good for about 150 with me on the back, the wire crash barriers on the central reservation looks bloody scary at that speed  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Are these new Fiestas you are comparing with an older Golf?
If so, priorities have changed; the buzzword is MPG now not BHP.
Not much of a petrolhead comment "
Hah, I'm not. I like cars but they stopped giving me a hard on years ago.
Also, your MKII may well have been pre-cat (I forget when they were introduced). |
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A word of warning you really do need to hear an take note of if your thinking any kind of modern diesal it has to do what it was made for lots an lots of miles if not pretty much all of them now are having massive turbo issues. I run my own very small garage whitch is more a paying hobby if im honest an I replace 2/3 turbos a month an concidering im a 1 man back street garage that's 1 hell of a lot an also proves that the problem none of the manufacturer's will even admit to being real is a huge problem an it all boils down to sales reps selling ppl cars they no damn well can't match the custemers use. An by the way average price I charge for replacing a blown turbo if its not took the engine with it whitch it often does is £800/£1000. Most other garages charge at least £1500 whitch is why I end up with the 2 or 3 every month but hey keeps me in my expensive toys |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
"A word of warning you really do need to hear an take note of if your thinking any kind of modern diesal it has to do what it was made for lots an lots of miles if not pretty much all of them now are having massive turbo issues. I run my own very small garage whitch is more a paying hobby if im honest an I replace 2/3 turbos a month an concidering im a 1 man back street garage that's 1 hell of a lot an also proves that the problem none of the manufacturer's will even admit to being real is a huge problem an it all boils down to sales reps selling ppl cars they no damn well can't match the custemers use. An by the way average price I charge for replacing a blown turbo if its not took the engine with it whitch it often does is £800/£1000. Most other garages charge at least £1500 whitch is why I end up with the 2 or 3 every month but hey keeps me in my expensive toys "
Thanks, good point - but it's a petrol. |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
" unless you've a spare what 150/200 grand my £10.750 sex on wheels will kick your cars arse every single time.....well you did ask "
Define "kick your arse". I've got a couple of friends who own and race heavily modded track cars which would give you a run for your money in some, (and yes, only some) situations. They've not spent anything like 150 grand on them.
Plus they have the space and carrying capacity of a car, fewer numpties "Sorry Mate I Didn't See You", they don't get wet in the rain...
They do sometimes suffer from chocolate engines and gearboxes though.
Swings and roundabouts. |
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Diesels have massive nm and can be as fast as a petrol......my tuned audi a3 tdi had turbo problem replaced myself at a cost of £800 with a hybrid turbo....goes like a rocket about 210 bhp but due to diesel causing soot inside turbo/engine they can be problematic after a while and need to have various parts dismantled and cleaned periodically. .. |
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" unless you've a spare what 150/200 grand my £10.750 sex on wheels will kick your cars arse every single time.....well you did ask
Define "kick your arse". I've got a couple of friends who own and race heavily modded track cars which would give you a run for your money in some, (and yes, only some) situations. They've not spent anything like 150 grand on them.
Plus they have the space and carrying capacity of a car, fewer numpties "Sorry Mate I Didn't See You", they don't get wet in the rain...
They do sometimes suffer from chocolate engines and gearboxes though.
Swings and roundabouts."
ok lets say my standerd stock issue blade with no mods other than a tail tidy against what a standerd modern focus rs or any thing els you care to think of your a spec in my mirror. If you spec up your rs whitch for a start will cost the earth in mods you might keep up with me but if I spend a fraction of what you did on your rs again your dust an car against bike your gona be hard pressed to come close every time. Power to wight rashios cant ever match no matter what your driving end of story |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
" unless you've a spare what 150/200 grand my £10.750 sex on wheels will kick your cars arse every single time.....well you did ask
Define "kick your arse". I've got a couple of friends who own and race heavily modded track cars which would give you a run for your money in some, (and yes, only some) situations. They've not spent anything like 150 grand on them.
Plus they have the space and carrying capacity of a car, fewer numpties "Sorry Mate I Didn't See You", they don't get wet in the rain...
They do sometimes suffer from chocolate engines and gearboxes though.
Swings and roundabouts.
ok lets say my standerd stock issue blade with no mods other than a tail tidy against what a standerd modern focus rs or any thing els you care to think of your a spec in my mirror. If you spec up your rs whitch for a start will cost the earth in mods you might keep up with me but if I spend a fraction of what you did on your rs again your dust an car against bike your gona be hard pressed to come close every time. Power to wight rashios cant ever match no matter what your driving end of story "
Only one car ever passed me and that was a Jenson Interceptor, haha!
And I was pissed |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
" unless you've a spare what 150/200 grand my £10.750 sex on wheels will kick your cars arse every single time.....well you did ask
Define "kick your arse". I've got a couple of friends who own and race heavily modded track cars which would give you a run for your money in some, (and yes, only some) situations. They've not spent anything like 150 grand on them.
Plus they have the space and carrying capacity of a car, fewer numpties "Sorry Mate I Didn't See You", they don't get wet in the rain...
They do sometimes suffer from chocolate engines and gearboxes though.
Swings and roundabouts.
ok lets say my standerd stock issue blade with no mods other than a tail tidy against what a standerd modern focus rs or any thing els you care to think of your a spec in my mirror. If you spec up your rs whitch for a start will cost the earth in mods you might keep up with me but if I spend a fraction of what you did on your rs again your dust an car against bike your gona be hard pressed to come close every time. Power to wight rashios cant ever match no matter what your driving end of story "
Does not change the fact that it is possible to have a car that will keep up with you or even, heaven forfend, beat you for less - much less - than 150 grand.
You love your bike. I think we get that. However, opting for a car over a bike is a valid choice.
Power to weight ratio is what it's about when it comes to performance, yes but that's changing your argument.
Your claim was it's not possible to have a car that could keep up with you, or beat you, for under 150 grand. That isn't true. In fact it's very far from true. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" unless you've a spare what 150/200 grand my £10.750 sex on wheels will kick your cars arse every single time.....well you did ask
Define "kick your arse". I've got a couple of friends who own and race heavily modded track cars which would give you a run for your money in some, (and yes, only some) situations. They've not spent anything like 150 grand on them.
Plus they have the space and carrying capacity of a car, fewer numpties "Sorry Mate I Didn't See You", they don't get wet in the rain...
They do sometimes suffer from chocolate engines and gearboxes though.
Swings and roundabouts.
ok lets say my standerd stock issue blade with no mods other than a tail tidy against what a standerd modern focus rs or any thing els you care to think of your a spec in my mirror. If you spec up your rs whitch for a start will cost the earth in mods you might keep up with me but if I spend a fraction of what you did on your rs again your dust an car against bike your gona be hard pressed to come close every time. Power to wight rashios cant ever match no matter what your driving end of story
Does not change the fact that it is possible to have a car that will keep up with you or even, heaven forfend, beat you for less - much less - than 150 grand.
You love your bike. I think we get that. However, opting for a car over a bike is a valid choice.
Power to weight ratio is what it's about when it comes to performance, yes but that's changing your argument.
Your claim was it's not possible to have a car that could keep up with you, or beat you, for under 150 grand. That isn't true. In fact it's very far from true."
Especially in narrow twisty country roads and lanes...
Not a lot is going to keep up in a straight line. |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
" unless you've a spare what 150/200 grand my £10.750 sex on wheels will kick your cars arse every single time.....well you did ask
Define "kick your arse". I've got a couple of friends who own and race heavily modded track cars which would give you a run for your money in some, (and yes, only some) situations. They've not spent anything like 150 grand on them.
Plus they have the space and carrying capacity of a car, fewer numpties "Sorry Mate I Didn't See You", they don't get wet in the rain...
They do sometimes suffer from chocolate engines and gearboxes though.
Swings and roundabouts.
ok lets say my standerd stock issue blade with no mods other than a tail tidy against what a standerd modern focus rs or any thing els you care to think of your a spec in my mirror. If you spec up your rs whitch for a start will cost the earth in mods you might keep up with me but if I spend a fraction of what you did on your rs again your dust an car against bike your gona be hard pressed to come close every time. Power to wight rashios cant ever match no matter what your driving end of story
Does not change the fact that it is possible to have a car that will keep up with you or even, heaven forfend, beat you for less - much less - than 150 grand.
You love your bike. I think we get that. However, opting for a car over a bike is a valid choice.
Power to weight ratio is what it's about when it comes to performance, yes but that's changing your argument.
Your claim was it's not possible to have a car that could keep up with you, or beat you, for under 150 grand. That isn't true. In fact it's very far from true.
Especially in narrow twisty country roads and lanes...
Not a lot is going to keep up in a straight line. "
One of my friends owns a drag car that tops out over 200mph which is where my initial comment came from. I have several friends who are in to the modding scene in a big way and compete in events like Ten of the Best and Time Attack.
That said, their cars are not the norm! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There's a guy with a Vauxhall Victor street legal that does 0-60 in less than a second gets it to 220 in 6.5 on a drag strip and good for 250 mph...
He has spent over £100000 on it though, wonder what it corners like??? |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
"There's a guy with a Vauxhall Victor street legal that does 0-60 in less than a second gets it to 220 in 6.5 on a drag strip and good for 250 mph...
He has spent over £100000 on it though, wonder what it corners like???"
Haha, I wonder what the GPM is!! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A courier in a white van could keep up....and thats smoking on the phone and drinking a coffee. . "
Top Gear did a drag race with a mk11 astramax van against a lotus esprite years ago and the van done very well, not sure it crossed the line first but lead most of the way. |
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By *ee VianteWoman
over a year ago
Somewhere in North Norfolk |
Sabine Schmitz (I've probably spelt that wrong) taking the van around the Nurburgring was their top van feature  Brilliant
She told Clarkson he's 80% talent free and she is my hero! (Heroine, technically, I suppose). |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There's a guy with a Vauxhall Victor street legal that does 0-60 in less than a second gets it to 220 in 6.5 on a drag strip and good for 250 mph...
He has spent over £100000 on it though, wonder what it corners like???
Haha, I wonder what the GPM is!!"
5mpg lol 9.3 litre twin turbo 2200bhp
http://youtu.be/kY0VH-MrQPQ |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Are these new Fiestas you are comparing with an older Golf?
If so, priorities have changed; the buzzword is MPG now not BHP. "
I got a BMW 118d... 130 BHP, £35 road tax, 0-60 10.4 secs, and about 54 MPG on a run. Now have it chipped... 180 BHP, 0-60 8.2 secs... and have got 83 MPG on a run. even to from work I get 20% better mileage... crazy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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A lot of the performance disparities will be down to how the cars are mapped. As said previously the buzzwords are economy and environment. Modern cars may quote good figures but often don't deliver in the real world because of the environmental parts sucking the power and torque (most modern cars have more than one cat). It's also.worth considering that the manufacturers quoted power figures are achieved under ideal conditions not real world on road driving, same with the economy figures.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Im guessing the mapping, power to weight ratio and gearing.
Years ago, I had a 2ltr Capri GT. I loved that car. A friend had the same but changed the diff to one out of a van. He would kill me off the lights, but lost his top end speed.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Maximum torque/bhp figures don't tell the whole story. How the power/torque is delivered make a big difference "
Yup, its also important to know if the figures quoted are the wheel figures or flywheel figures.
Modern cars may seem to have more power but they're generally heavier and have more components that use engine power, even when they're not in use. Gearing is also a major factor, modern cars are generally shorter geared meaning you won't generally hit 60 in 2nd like you used to be able to. This is done with town/city driving in mind. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Can I also say that this is NOT a petrol head thread! None of the cars the OP stated are Alfa Romeo's.... "
+1
Also, German cars are ugly. Built by technicians and mathematicians... not designers. |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
"Can I also say that this is NOT a petrol head thread! None of the cars the OP stated are Alfa Romeo's....
+1
Also, German cars are ugly. Built by technicians and mathematicians... not designers. "
It may be common but little Fiesta is very pretty I think, inside and out (I love the wannabe Aston grille I think it's a scream!) most small cars have only one or the other and really cheap interiors. I got over my brand snobbery years ago, money is tight.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Can I also say that this is NOT a petrol head thread! None of the cars the OP stated are Alfa Romeo's....
+1
Also, German cars are ugly. Built by technicians and mathematicians... not designers.
It may be common but little Fiesta is very pretty I think, inside and out (I love the wannabe Aston grille I think it's a scream!) most small cars have only one or the other and really cheap interiors. I got over my brand snobbery years ago, money is tight...."
Lol, its not brand snobbery. It's about being a true petrolhead. Alfa ownership is something you will either live or hate but in the words of Clarkson "To be a true petrolhead, you MUST own an Alfa at some point". |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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You can't beat a golf for porformance,of course depending on engine size and level of tuning.but then other cars look better inside,corsa and Clio are pretty cars,and quite quick,depends really if you want performance or a pretty car inside and out. |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
"Personally I wouldn't just look at how much PS/NM Etc. I would also look at where (as in at what rev's) the car produces its maximum. The lower the rev's the more flexible the engine."
Yes, that's the kind of flexibility I like - but it seems there are so many variables you only know by driving it. |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
"
Lol, its not brand snobbery. It's about being a true petrolhead. Alfa ownership is something you will either live or hate but in the words of Clarkson "To be a true petrolhead, you MUST own an Alfa at some point"."
Haha, ex did when we were married, but when a front wheel literally fell off I converted him to VW and he bought a Scirocco!! We stayed VW/Audi.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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4 wheels bad, 2 wheels better.
Have a look at the insurance cost that could sway you a bit.
Just a fly in the ointment, you can only go as fast as the car in front, so is it that important to get the car with the best 0 - 60 unless it is for either track days/ racing or bragging rights down the pub |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Are these new Fiestas you are comparing with an older Golf?
If so, priorities have changed; the buzzword is MPG now not BHP.
Not much of a petrolhead comment
You beat me to it "
I thought people would able to read between the lines as to why two cars built a couple of decades apart drive differently. |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
"4 wheels bad, 2 wheels better.
Have a look at the insurance cost that could sway you a bit.
Just a fly in the ointment, you can only go as fast as the car in front, so is it that important to get the car with the best 0 - 60 unless it is for either track days/ racing or bragging rights down the pub"
Ah, but it is also important if you need to get PAST the car in front!!
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"Can I also say that this is NOT a petrol head thread! None of the cars the OP stated are Alfa Romeo's....
+1
Also, German cars are ugly. Built by technicians and mathematicians... not designers.
It may be common but little Fiesta is very pretty I think, inside and out (I love the wannabe Aston grille I think it's a scream!) most small cars have only one or the other and really cheap interiors. I got over my brand snobbery years ago, money is tight....
Lol, its not brand snobbery. It's about being a true petrolhead. Alfa ownership is something you will either live or hate but in the words of Clarkson "To be a true petrolhead, you MUST own an Alfa at some point"."
As long as it wasn't an Alfasud
I'm no longer a petrolhead, these days I suppose I'm a dieselhead. A bit slow, sometimes smelly, but go on forever. |
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Compareing cars and bikes is mad. A bike has a lot more power to weight so will be quicker in a straight line. Where as a car has a lot more grip so will be better in the bends and under braking. Choosing a car by looking at numbers is also mad as it doesn't tell the whole story. Gearing weight ,power dilivery all play a part. Also most modern cars will do what's needed on today's overcrouded roads. Its hard to find a bad car. Simple answer is get the one you like to drive and be happy. When your on the motorway for hour after hour having 5 more hp really doesn't matter. More important is what's it like to live with day to day. Then save up and get an old nail to use as a track day car. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" power to weight ratio
That^ is the answer.
I've read the whole thread and nobody said it up until gentlemanben above"
It was mentioned quite near the top by several posters. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Personally you could have the best car according to facts and figures but not be happy with it, as it may not inspire you. Go for the one that gives you the most joy. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
" power to weight ratio
That^ is the answer.
I've read the whole thread and nobody said it up until gentlemanben above
It was mentioned quite near the top by several posters. "
Speaking as non-petrolhead, doesn't power to weight only come into it if the things you're comparing have an equal ability to convert the power into motion? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Andy used to work in F1 so he said the Focus is a better car with better cornering than the others."
I know when it was first produced it was the only car in its class with independent rear suspension, is this still the case? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" power to weight ratio
That^ is the answer.
I've read the whole thread and nobody said it up until gentlemanben above
It was mentioned quite near the top by several posters. "
Really?
Lets add some more specifications:
Golf Gti 112/155 8.2 1.245KG
Fiesta 125/200 9.4 1.100KG
Golf is heavier.
Nothing to do with power to weight. Without being a 'petrol head' I would imagine it is to do with being an older engine, less focused on low emissions (only the very late MKII Golfs had catalytic converters) and economy.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" power to weight ratio
That^ is the answer.
I've read the whole thread and nobody said it up until gentlemanben above
It was mentioned quite near the top by several posters.
Speaking as non-petrolhead, doesn't power to weight only come into it if the things you're comparing have an equal ability to convert the power into motion?"
It's a combination, of things. Gearing also comes into it. Gearbox and differential, wheel and tyre sizes. |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
"
It's a combination, of things. Gearing also comes into it. Gearbox and differential, wheel and tyre sizes. "
And where the torque occurs in the rev range - I think that's one of the things that really makes a difference to me, but not sure if that's on paper anywhere - which was my original question, devising a test to make sure I can FEEL the difference.
I've driven a bunch of cars in the class and the Fiesta is way ahead in terms of responsiveness and 'joy to drive'-ness. I'd be ready to slit my wrists after a week driving any small Vauxhall, they were so sluggish, bleugh!
And as for colour - well that's the real problem - I want one of the least popular colours, cos it's the most classy, and so I may have to do a factory order to get what I want. |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
So the original question again - I'm going to have another whizz this afternoon comparing the 100/170 and the 125/200 - what do you think is a good thing to do to test the torque? Is my 'foot down in top at 50' gonna show me a worst case scenario? I reckon? |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
" power to weight ratio
Golf Gti 112/155 8.2 1.245KG
Fiesta 125/200 9.4 1.100KG
Golf is heavier.
Nothing to do with power to weight.
"
Ah, but the OLD GTi was only 907kg compared to the Fiesta I want at 1091Kg.
So, a bit like driving an old Golf with a 15 stone man in the passenger seat? Not sure that would've slowed my Golf down any! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So the original question again - I'm going to have another whizz this afternoon comparing the 100/170 and the 125/200 - what do you think is a good thing to do to test the torque? Is my 'foot down in top at 50' gonna show me a worst case scenario? I reckon?"
Drive them like you stole them and see what one makes you smile the most...
Ask if they have the same gearboxes, difs and wheel sizes etc. as you maybe comparing chalk n cheese, you'll get to see how well the salesman knows his product too, if he can't give you satisfactory answers how much else doesn't he know about what they are selling you.
Maybe see what it pulls like in every gear as opposed to just 5th or 6th if it has one. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" power to weight ratio
Golf Gti 112/155 8.2 1.245KG
Fiesta 125/200 9.4 1.100KG
Golf is heavier.
Nothing to do with power to weight.
Ah, but the OLD GTi was only 907kg compared to the Fiesta I want at 1091Kg.
So, a bit like driving an old Golf with a 15 stone man in the passenger seat? Not sure that would've slowed my Golf down any!"
Weights I used were for a MKII Golf and MK6 Fiesta from Wikipedia. |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
" power to weight ratio
Golf Gti 112/155 8.2 1.245KG
Fiesta 125/200 9.4 1.100KG
Golf is heavier.
Nothing to do with power to weight.
Ah, but the OLD GTi was only 907kg compared to the Fiesta I want at 1091Kg.
So, a bit like driving an old Golf with a 15 stone man in the passenger seat? Not sure that would've slowed my Golf down any!
Weights I used were for a MKII Golf and MK6 Fiesta from Wikipedia. "
There were many models though - I got data for the one I had here - amazing site for data!
http://www.carinf.com/en/7c403316.html |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So, a bit like driving an old Golf with a 15 stone man in the passenger seat? Not sure that would've slowed my Golf down any!"
Did you read the rest of my post though? Here it is just incase:
"Nothing to do with power to weight. Without being a 'petrol head' I would imagine it is to do with being an older engine, less focused on low emissions (only the very late MKII Golfs had catalytic converters) and economy."
----
"There were many models though"
True, but I wager the GTI would always be the heavier one (especially at that year) due to being a bigger engine than lesser models.
----
"So the original question again - I'm going to have another whizz this afternoon comparing the 100/170 and the 125/200 - what do you think is a good thing to do to test the torque? Is my 'foot down in top at 50' gonna show me a worst case scenario? I reckon? "
You've seen the figures, the one with bigger numbers is faster. Your test will prove this (as well as gear ratios providing there is actually a difference between the two models). Frankly I wager the difference will only be marginally noticable. They are Fiestas at the end of the day with slighter different engines. I've had the same thing before with hot hatches (1.4 vs 1.6) years ago and the difference was hardly anything.
Drive the two, see which one you like best.
If you are that bothered about torque, you wouldn't be buying a Fiesta. I would suggest a German diesel as someone else said and spend a few hundred getting it remapped. |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
Some lovely fabber found me an url for the very question I am asking, with a link to a review.
http://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/topic/43834-10-ecoboost-123ps-or-100ps/
The weight I quoted was for the 8v 1.8l Gti I had. And yes you are right - not much difference - which is why I am having so much trouble deciding!! x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Best way to test torque in the real world is put the car in 5th at 30 and accelerate to 70. It should be smooth and you should feel a 'surge' around 50-60.
Ideal torque delivery should be from around 1500rpm with no flat spots through the rev range. It'll start to drop away between 1000-800rpm before the trendline (that mostly due to the fuel/air mix going to pot). See if you can search out dyno charts for the cars you're interested in, it should give you a good idea of how the torque and power are delivered. |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
"Best way to test torque in the real world is put the car in 5th at 30 and accelerate to 70. It should be smooth and you should feel a 'surge' around 50-60.
Ideal torque delivery should be from around 1500rpm with no flat spots through the rev range. It'll start to drop away between 1000-800rpm before the trendline (that mostly due to the fuel/air mix going to pot). See if you can search out dyno charts for the cars you're interested in, it should give you a good idea of how the torque and power are delivered."
Brill thank you, off to drive in a mo. I think the thread mentioned in the link above talks about some figs but not sure I can grasp it well enough to translate into the real world! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"4 wheels bad, 2 wheels better.
......
Not in a collision.
Or the winter. "
Winter makes it fun, you really learn how to use the throttle correctly and your feet for brakes.........long story. |
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Seriously who really gives a fuck! I have got a type R 58 plate jag! And you don't hear me boasting about how it makes u cum in sport mode - or the gear stick doubles as a fucking good warm up for the ladies! Do you!!! Lol x good luck with ur choice! Xxx |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
OK, well the die is cast - it seems I am a petrolhead, there is no getting away from it!!
For those who may be interested - I spent 1.5 hours test driving the two cars on the open road. The owners club reported the torque 'falling off a cliff' below 2000rpm, and that's what I found, more or less the same in both cars, in 4th and 5th anyway.
The main difference I found between the two is at 50 in top the 125 engine 'complained' below 2000rpm, kept asking me to change down to 4th. I would only be using 5th on a motorway it seems. But, it would pick up there OK and smoothly accelerate to 80 odd, just not in the lively way it would at higher revs.
The 100 on the other hand said 'Piss off' in that dead spot - and that's what I can't stand, a car that says 'No!'. It did not complain until it was down at 1500, but didn't perform better at lower revs for all that. I would drive it more in 5th, but so what.
Both lively in lower gears/higher revs, but there is more 'depth' to the feel of the 125 at a similar acceleration - don't know how else to describe it. 100 felt thinner.
Hope that all make sense, thanks for all the help guys. I'll have to wait 'til the new year for a 125 it seems, but at least I finally have a decision. xx
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Golfs are not lighter, they are a lot heaver and better built. "
Modern golf is heavier but mk II was Leighton with good balance & gearbox. More power got to the road with less wasted.. |
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"Sabine Schmitz (I've probably spelt that wrong) taking the van around the Nurburgring was their top van feature Brilliant
She told Clarkson he's 80% talent free and she is my hero! (Heroine, technically, I suppose)."
Love that girl! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"OK, well the die is cast - it seems I am a petrolhead, there is no getting away from it!!
For those who may be interested - I spent 1.5 hours test driving the two cars on the open road. The owners club reported the torque 'falling off a cliff' below 2000rpm, and that's what I found, more or less the same in both cars, in 4th and 5th anyway.
The main difference I found between the two is at 50 in top the 125 engine 'complained' below 2000rpm, kept asking me to change down to 4th. I would only be using 5th on a motorway it seems. But, it would pick up there OK and smoothly accelerate to 80 odd, just not in the lively way it would at higher revs.
The 100 on the other hand said 'Piss off' in that dead spot - and that's what I can't stand, a car that says 'No!'. It did not complain until it was down at 1500, but didn't perform better at lower revs for all that. I would drive it more in 5th, but so what.
Both lively in lower gears/higher revs, but there is more 'depth' to the feel of the 125 at a similar acceleration - don't know how else to describe it. 100 felt thinner.
Hope that all make sense, thanks for all the help guys. I'll have to wait 'til the new year for a 125 it seems, but at least I finally have a decision. xx
"
I'm goint to throw a spanner in the works, and an obvious one from me. Have you looked at an Alfa MiTo Cloverleaf or Guilietta 1750? Both have lively performance (the Guilietta has the same engine as the new 4C which just set a new sub-250bhp lap record at the Nurburgring, the thing pulls like a train). Both are good on fuel and there's some excellent finance deals around too. |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
"If you really have to get a fiesta wait for the 125 version but there are more fun cars out there."
I've had nearly 40 years of fun cars - now I need economy, can't afford another real toy right now!! But the Ecoboost engine is a brilliant drive, I am hard to please. |
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By *risky_Mare OP Woman
over a year ago
...Up on the Downs |
"OK, well the die is cast - it seems I am a petrolhead, there is no getting away from it!!
For those who may be interested - I spent 1.5 hours test driving the two cars on the open road. The owners club reported the torque 'falling off a cliff' below 2000rpm, and that's what I found, more or less the same in both cars, in 4th and 5th anyway.
The main difference I found between the two is at 50 in top the 125 engine 'complained' below 2000rpm, kept asking me to change down to 4th. I would only be using 5th on a motorway it seems. But, it would pick up there OK and smoothly accelerate to 80 odd, just not in the lively way it would at higher revs.
The 100 on the other hand said 'Piss off' in that dead spot - and that's what I can't stand, a car that says 'No!'. It did not complain until it was down at 1500, but didn't perform better at lower revs for all that. I would drive it more in 5th, but so what.
Both lively in lower gears/higher revs, but there is more 'depth' to the feel of the 125 at a similar acceleration - don't know how else to describe it. 100 felt thinner.
Hope that all make sense, thanks for all the help guys. I'll have to wait 'til the new year for a 125 it seems, but at least I finally have a decision. xx
I'm goint to throw a spanner in the works, and an obvious one from me. Have you looked at an Alfa MiTo Cloverleaf or Guilietta 1750? Both have lively performance (the Guilietta has the same engine as the new 4C which just set a new sub-250bhp lap record at the Nurburgring, the thing pulls like a train). Both are good on fuel and there's some excellent finance deals around too."
Haha, you give me another 12K and I'll buy one!! I've already upgraded 'cos I could bear anything really cheap.... |
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