FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Smoking at the school gates
Smoking at the school gates
Jump to: Newest in thread
| |||
| |||
"Well the difference would appear to be that the company pay the wages of the people they are banning from smoking near the doorway. In the school example it's the other way around." True but you enter a contract with the school when you enrol your child. | |||
| |||
| |||
"Daily Mail?" I think that's where it started. It was on the news last night as the Headteacher has been getting abusive messages as well. | |||
"Does the area outside the school gate belong to the school? X" Possible curtilage? The head is on This Morning now instead of being in school! | |||
| |||
"Daily Mail?" BBC News....is that any more credible or do we sneer at this way of finding news too? | |||
| |||
| |||
"Does the area outside the school gate belong to the school? X Possible curtilage? The head is on This Morning now instead of being in school!" I've looked up what curtilage means lol. And yes possibly they could enforce it that way. If it's not their land I don't see there is much they can do about it tbh x | |||
"It takes ten minutes at the most to drop your child off. Can't the addicts go that long without their fix. They will be child free for a few hours after that and can puff away to their hearts content. "  I used to smoke but I agree with this. | |||
| |||
 | |||
| |||
"Daily Mail? BBC News....is that any more credible or do we sneer at this way of finding news too?" Someone (above) has credited the Mail with breaking the story. I was guessing but it has the grubby paw prints of the Mail all over it. I hate smoking. | |||
"When our children were at Primary school I smoked, but I didn't light up while children were at eye level with my fag...so why do parents want to smoke right outside the gate anyway where there are lots of kids about? As for the allegded abuse the Headteacher got , all I will say is, she has no chance of appealing to these parents better nature if that is the reaction. God help the children. "She was brought in to turn around a failing school. No doubt the parents blamed the school for the failings instead of looking at their contribution to that. They seem to have forgotten the children in all of this. | |||
| |||
"Daily Mail? BBC News....is that any more credible or do we sneer at this way of finding news too? Someone (above) has credited the Mail with breaking the story. I was guessing but it has the grubby paw prints of the Mail all over it. I hate smoking." After your post the Mail was mentioned, but it seems that was wrong and it was the Express who picked it up. Does it matter who picked it up if the story is true? | |||
| |||
"Do we know how many of the complaining parents smoke at home?" | |||
"The story of the Headteacher banning smoking at the school gates and the parents planning a picket line keeps on going. Businesses often ban staff from smoking at the entrance, is this really that much different? Is this just a bunch of parents seeking their 15 minutes of fame with their chain smoking picket line?" I think any access should be free of smoking | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
"And what sort of example does it set the children. We don't like your rules so we're going to stomp our feet and scream really loud until you change your mind. The sort of behaviour deemed to be naughty if a child does it. " Some children set examples for their parents lol  | |||
 * | |||
| |||
 | |||
| |||
| |||
"This has reminded me of another thing that makes me skin crawl when I see it. People pushing prams and pushchairs whilst smoking. Lit cigarettes damaging over their babies/children's faces! "That should say dangling! Bloody phone x | |||
| |||
"The only reason I can see for considering the source of the news is that certain publications have a tendancy to put a particular slant on some stories. Knowing where it came from can help in assessing what the actual story is. By that I don't just mean The Mail. Most of the others have some sort of political agenda." I agree. I suppose people could always find wether the news is true by other means rather than implying people are stupid enough to only believe one source when raising a subject. | |||
"Why would a parent want to smoke at the school gate anyway??? "Why would any parent want to smoke? You can't help but wonder why if, as they insist, their kids are the most important thing in their lives, some parents are doing their damndest to smoke themselves into an early grave - leaving the kids without one or other parent. | |||
"This has reminded me of another thing that makes me skin crawl when I see it. People pushing prams and pushchairs whilst smoking. Lit cigarettes damaging over their babies/children's faces! "It's the ones leaning into the child's face with the cigarette in hand and that outward puff straight into the child's face that shock me. | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
"Good on her - tackling chav parents at the gate is a sensible start" | |||
| |||
"I walk past a large school most days, all the dinner ladies stand outside the gates, smoking and drinking cans, which they just drop when empty, same at local hospital, drs, nurses, general staff, have to smoke at bus stop, off hosp grounds, all wear their white coats and uniforms, then go back in, I have complained about it, but to no avail." So their uniforms then smell smoky? | |||
| |||
"I walk past a large school most days, all the dinner ladies stand outside the gates, smoking and drinking cans, which they just drop when empty, same at local hospital, drs, nurses, general staff, have to smoke at bus stop, off hosp grounds, all wear their white coats and uniforms, then go back in, I have complained about it, but to no avail. So their uniforms then smell smoky? " I have a couple of friends who are midwives, because the hospital grounds are none smoking, they have new mothers hobbling out to the main road for a fag not long after having a c-section. Absolutely bonkers. | |||
| |||
"Well the difference would appear to be that the company pay the wages of the people they are banning from smoking near the doorway. In the school example it's the other way around. True but you enter a contract with the school when you enrol your child. " If outside gates not on school property and school has no legal right to tell you what to do on public path, all they can do is ask parents not to smoke | |||
"I walk past a large school most days, all the dinner ladies stand outside the gates, smoking and drinking cans, which they just drop when empty, same at local hospital, drs, nurses, general staff, have to smoke at bus stop, off hosp grounds, all wear their white coats and uniforms, then go back in, I have complained about it, but to no avail." Thought nursing staff had to get changed if they wanted to pop outdoors for a quick fag | |||
"I know i'm going to get shot down for saying this but I bet the school caters for kids from a run down council estate, sounds like the type of mentality such kids parents would have, I cant imagine people from good areas kicking up a fuss over such a reasonable request " And we wonder why teens have no respect for their elders, mind it will be all the teachers fault again | |||
| |||
"Why shouldnt people stand at the gates and smoke?It is a public highway and we are all free citizens." Because (and I'm an ex smoker) people who are collecting their kids from school have no choice but to stand there and it's just common decency. Even when I smoked I was considerate of others. | |||
"Why shouldnt people stand at the gates and smoke?It is a public highway and we are all free citizens." Decency? Consideration for others, particularly young children? | |||
"I walk past a large school most days, all the dinner ladies stand outside the gates, smoking and drinking cans, which they just drop when empty, same at local hospital, drs, nurses, general staff, have to smoke at bus stop, off hosp grounds, all wear their white coats and uniforms, then go back in, I have complained about it, but to no avail. So their uniforms then smell smoky? " Unfortunatly, mind you whats worse is 3 nurses have horses and they come before work to feed them, let them out and muck out in their uniforms/ shoes, I have asked them, but they say there in a rush and no changing facilities in hospital, hospital say, they don't believe their well trained staff would do that. I have pics, but because they are " friends" what can I do? | |||
"Why shouldnt people stand at the gates and smoke?It is a public highway and we are all free citizens." Because the headmistress has politely requested you to refrain from doing so while the children are being dropped off or collected. Not hard is it ? And it's only for about ten minutes so what's the problem. | |||
| |||
"Why shouldnt people stand at the gates and smoke?It is a public highway and we are all free citizens. Decency? Consideration for others, particularly young children? " im a smoker but even as a smoker there seems to be places where I feel its ok to smoke and some where its not, I don't smoke in my own house as I have a 12 year old so I wouldn't stand outside a school and make other peoples kids breath my smoke in when I don't let my own child do it its just common decency | |||
"Why shouldnt people stand at the gates and smoke?It is a public highway and we are all free citizens. Because the headmistress has politely requested you to refrain from doing so while the children are being dropped off or collected. Not hard is it ? And it's only for about ten minutes so what's the problem. " plus how do you teach your children to respect their teachers when you don't yourself? | |||
"Lots of people do things I dont like. I dont try to ban them. The truth is that some people are just trying to stamp out smoking...and they are using children as a flimsy excuse. It really is nothing to do with children...its all about peoples intolerance" They are not trying to ban smoking , they are asking you not to smoke in the vicinity of children. Only a moron would think this was unreasonable. | |||
| |||
| |||
"Lots of people do things I dont like. I dont try to ban them. The truth is that some people are just trying to stamp out smoking...and they are using children as a flimsy excuse. It really is nothing to do with children...its all about peoples intolerance" Smoking will never get banned, I think what people are doing is trying to prevent non smokers from having to breathe in second hand smoke. Which is totally understandable IMHO. Not just smoking but no one should have to endure pollution by others when It can be avoided. | |||
"Lots of people do things I dont like. I dont try to ban them. The truth is that some people are just trying to stamp out smoking...and they are using children as a flimsy excuse. It really is nothing to do with children...its all about peoples intolerance" Children's health is hardly a 'flimsy excuse' but, since you've noticed, yes, some folk are trying to stamp out smoking and we'll happily use any legal means to do so and if that means shaming smokers or pricing them out of the market or banning smoking from public places - so be it. Any further suggestions welcomed. | |||
"I was reading up on tis story and a group of parents have started a petition entitled “Get the bitches out”. what kind of example is that for their kids?" Hardly anything surprises me anymore, but this has. | |||
"I was reading up on tis story and a group of parents have started a petition entitled “Get the bitches out”. what kind of example is that for their kids?" Daily Mail again? | |||
"I was reading up on tis story and a group of parents have started a petition entitled “Get the bitches out”. what kind of example is that for their kids? Daily Mail again?" Express | |||
"I was reading up on tis story and a group of parents have started a petition entitled “Get the bitches out”. what kind of example is that for their kids? Daily Mail again? Express "Just as bad. | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
"This schoolgate an has no legal force whatsoever. This illiberalism has to stop" Protecting children from the harmful effects of cigarette smoke is hardly liberalism. | |||
 | |||
| |||
"Anyone here drive a car?" haha no but I still breath your fumes in
I knew someone would bring cars up | |||
"Anyone here drive a car?" Running out if straws to clutch ? | |||
"Worst thing I saw recently was a posse of pregnant ladies standing outside a maternity ward, in their dressing gowns, puffing away on fags, ankle deep in fag ends and ash..... Whilst waiting to give birth..... Bonkers or what? "I hate to see pregnant women smoke, personally I think it should be illegal to force a fetus to smoke, but that's another thread lol | |||
"This schoolgate an has no legal force whatsoever. This illiberalism has to stop" If otherwise sensible people spent less time asserting their 'rights' and paid more attention to matters like children's health, this'd be a better country. There are threads everywhere about the cost of the NHS and how difficult it is to get to see a doctor...... I suppose we should be kinda grateful smokers are killing themselves off. | |||
"Anyone here drive a car?" Nope | |||
"Anyone here drive a car? Nope" I cant afford to run a car my fags cost to much | |||
| |||
"Anyone here drive a car? Nope I cant afford to run a car my fags cost to much "I'm waiting for the 'but I have to watch fat people eat burgers' argument. | |||
| |||
"Anyone here drive a car? Nope I cant afford to run a car my fags cost to much
I'm waiting for the 'but I have to watch fat people eat burgers' argument. "i'm a veggie so I don't fall into that category either | |||
"Cars kill or injure tens of thousands of people a year. Speed and bad driving is a bad example to children. By the same logic some people are applying we should ban them. Anyone here use electricity at home?" Ban bad driving and speeding yes, I believe that is already illegal? | |||
"Cars kill or injure tens of thousands of people a year. Speed and bad driving is a bad example to children. By the same logic some people are applying we should ban them. Anyone here use electricity at home?" yeah ok you really are clutching at straws now and making a bit of an ass out of yourself to boot | |||
"Cars kill or injure tens of thousands of people a year. Speed and bad driving is a bad example to children. By the same logic some people are applying we should ban them. Anyone here use electricity at home?" Cars and speed only kill when misused. Cigarettes kill when used in accordance with the manufacturers instructions. | |||
"Cars kill or injure tens of thousands of people a year. Speed and bad driving is a bad example to children. By the same logic some people are applying we should ban them. Anyone here use electricity at home?" What is it that you don't understand about this headmistresses attempt to protect the children from cigarette smoke. ? | |||
"This schoolgate an has no legal force whatsoever. This illiberalism has to stop Protecting children from the harmful effects of cigarette smoke is hardly liberalism. " Are the children actually with the parents at the schoolgates when the parents are smoking? I thought the parents were waiting for the children to come out of school?  | |||
| |||
"They are smoking outside, which, as far as i know, hasn't been banned yet. " It has now!  | |||
"This schoolgate an has no legal force whatsoever. This illiberalism has to stop Protecting children from the harmful effects of cigarette smoke is hardly liberalism. Are the children actually with the parents at the schoolgates when the parents are smoking? I thought the parents were waiting for the children to come out of school? "So the extinguish the cigarette at the first sight of a child ? | |||
| |||
"This schoolgate an has no legal force whatsoever. This illiberalism has to stop Protecting children from the harmful effects of cigarette smoke is hardly liberalism. Are the children actually with the parents at the schoolgates when the parents are smoking? I thought the parents were waiting for the children to come out of school? "My kids' school has over 550 attendees. They don't all come out at the very same moment. | |||
"This schoolgate an has no legal force whatsoever. This illiberalism has to stop Protecting children from the harmful effects of cigarette smoke is hardly liberalism. Are the children actually with the parents at the schoolgates when the parents are smoking? I thought the parents were waiting for the children to come out of school?
So the extinguish the cigarette at the first sight of a child ?"Do they? | |||
"This schoolgate an has no legal force whatsoever. This illiberalism has to stop Protecting children from the harmful effects of cigarette smoke is hardly liberalism. Are the children actually with the parents at the schoolgates when the parents are smoking? I thought the parents were waiting for the children to come out of school? "no idea But I have always tought my children to respect their teachers, education and those who provide it shouldnt be taken for granted there are many country who would love and be grateful for our education system There for if a teacher requested me not to do something I wouldn't do it out of respect for them, plus it sets an example for your children how can you teach your kids to respect teachers if you don't yourself | |||
| |||
"Anyone here turn their central heating on? Do you think that harms third parties? Does the boiler create poisonous fumes? Does the extraction of oil not cause problems?Any answers?" I don't have my boiler venting out in children's faces. | |||
| |||
"This schoolgate an has no legal force whatsoever. This illiberalism has to stop Protecting children from the harmful effects of cigarette smoke is hardly liberalism. Are the children actually with the parents at the schoolgates when the parents are smoking? I thought the parents were waiting for the children to come out of school?
So the extinguish the cigarette at the first sight of a child ?
Do they?"I would suggest not. | |||
"This schoolgate an has no legal force whatsoever. This illiberalism has to stop Protecting children from the harmful effects of cigarette smoke is hardly liberalism. Are the children actually with the parents at the schoolgates when the parents are smoking? I thought the parents were waiting for the children to come out of school? "They are but likely that some have younger siblings with them and unlikely that they all suddenly stub out the fags as the kids come out. | |||
"Anyone here turn their central heating on? Do you think that harms third parties? Does the boiler create poisonous fumes? Does the extraction of oil not cause problems?Any answers?" Oh dear. | |||
"This schoolgate an has no legal force whatsoever. This illiberalism has to stop Protecting children from the harmful effects of cigarette smoke is hardly liberalism. Are the children actually with the parents at the schoolgates when the parents are smoking? I thought the parents were waiting for the children to come out of school?
no idea
But I have always tought my children to respect their teachers, education and those who provide it shouldnt be taken for granted there are many country who would love and be grateful for our education system
There for if a teacher requested me not to do something I wouldn't do it out of respect for them, plus it sets an example for your children
how can you teach your kids to respect teachers if you don't yourself"What if you thought a teachers decision was wrong? Would you question it or would you just respect the teachers decision no matter how wrong you thought the teacher was? | |||
"Anyone here turn their central heating on? Do you think that harms third parties? Does the boiler create poisonous fumes? Does the extraction of oil not cause problems?Any answers? I don't have my boiler venting out in children's faces. " . So, these parents blow the smoke into their childrens faces?? Get real! Doesn't smoke go upwards and disperse in the air? And i thought the whole issue here was parents smoking while 'waiting' for their kids? | |||
"This schoolgate an has no legal force whatsoever. This illiberalism has to stop Protecting children from the harmful effects of cigarette smoke is hardly liberalism. " What about protecting them from harmful exhaust fumes from cars and lorries, that's as bad for their health if not worse | |||
"Anyone here turn their central heating on? Do you think that harms third parties? Does the boiler create poisonous fumes? Does the extraction of oil not cause problems?Any answers? I don't have my boiler venting out in children's faces. " Are these parents blowing cigarette smoke into the faces of the kids or is the smoke raising upwards and out of danger like smoke does when you're outside and therefore causing no harm to the kids? | |||
"I walk past a large school most days, all the dinner ladies stand outside the gates, smoking and drinking cans, which they just drop when empty, same at local hospital, drs, nurses, general staff, have to smoke at bus stop, off hosp grounds, all wear their white coats and uniforms, then go back in, I have complained about it, but to no avail. So their uniforms then smell smoky? " It's not just the smell, third hand smoke carried on the clothes and hair of smokers can contain carcinogens. | |||
"This schoolgate an has no legal force whatsoever. This illiberalism has to stop Protecting children from the harmful effects of cigarette smoke is hardly liberalism. What about protecting them from harmful exhaust fumes from cars and lorries, that's as bad for their health if not worse" I think thats a plan! Maybe the teacher in question will get round to that soon..... | |||
"This schoolgate an has no legal force whatsoever. This illiberalism has to stop Protecting children from the harmful effects of cigarette smoke is hardly liberalism. Are the children actually with the parents at the schoolgates when the parents are smoking? I thought the parents were waiting for the children to come out of school?
no idea
But I have always tought my children to respect their teachers, education and those who provide it shouldnt be taken for granted there are many country who would love and be grateful for our education system
There for if a teacher requested me not to do something I wouldn't do it out of respect for them, plus it sets an example for your children
how can you teach your kids to respect teachers if you don't yourself
What if you thought a teachers decision was wrong? Would you question it or would you just respect the teachers decision no matter how wrong you thought the teacher was?
"if i was doing something that the teacher didn't like and requested me to stop on or around the school i would stop, i work on the principle teachers have common sense and wouldn't make a stupid or unreasonable request | |||
"Anyone here turn their central heating on? Do you think that harms third parties? Does the boiler create poisonous fumes? Does the extraction of oil not cause problems?Any answers? I don't have my boiler venting out in children's faces. Are these parents blowing cigarette smoke into the faces of the kids or is the smoke raising upwards and out of danger like smoke does when you're outside and therefore causing no harm to the kids?" Grown person stood with cigarette in their hand at around hip height, that's around head height for a small child. The smoke doesn't just come out when they exhale does it? | |||
"This schoolgate an has no legal force whatsoever. This illiberalism has to stop Protecting children from the harmful effects of cigarette smoke is hardly liberalism. What about protecting them from harmful exhaust fumes from cars and lorries, that's as bad for their health if not worse I think thats a plan! Maybe the teacher in question will get round to that soon....." What's the teacher going to do, ban driving throughout country incase they drive past a child. | |||
| |||
"I walk past a large school most days, all the dinner ladies stand outside the gates, smoking and drinking cans, which they just drop when empty, same at local hospital, drs, nurses, general staff, have to smoke at bus stop, off hosp grounds, all wear their white coats and uniforms, then go back in, I have complained about it, but to no avail. So their uniforms then smell smoky? It's not just the smell, third hand smoke carried on the clothes and hair of smokers can contain carcinogens. " And what scientific journal did you read that snippet of information in? Or is it your personal opinion? | |||
"Is it just me because I don't see t he problem? Surely it is better to not smoke around the gates? If the head teacher asks you not to you should just respect their wishes and abide, right? I am a smoker too by the way. " You're clearly a reasonable person | |||
| |||
"This schoolgate an has no legal force whatsoever. This illiberalism has to stop Protecting children from the harmful effects of cigarette smoke is hardly liberalism. Are the children actually with the parents at the schoolgates when the parents are smoking? I thought the parents were waiting for the children to come out of school?
no idea
But I have always tought my children to respect their teachers, education and those who provide it shouldnt be taken for granted there are many country who would love and be grateful for our education system
There for if a teacher requested me not to do something I wouldn't do it out of respect for them, plus it sets an example for your children
how can you teach your kids to respect teachers if you don't yourself
What if you thought a teachers decision was wrong? Would you question it or would you just respect the teachers decision no matter how wrong you thought the teacher was?
if i was doing something that the teacher didn't like and requested me to stop on or around the school i would stop, i work on the principle teachers have common sense and wouldn't make a stupid or unreasonable request "And you'd do that even if you thought you were right in doing what you were doing and that the teacher was wrong in asking you to stop what you were doing? You'd tell your child the teacher was wrong but I've agreed to stop anyway? Doesnt anyone think that people should stand up for what they believe to be right regardless of who says otherwise whetehr thats teachers, police, politicians etc. Kids should be taught to stand up for their beliefs? | |||
| |||
| |||
"I walk past a large school most days, all the dinner ladies stand outside the gates, smoking and drinking cans, which they just drop when empty, same at local hospital, drs, nurses, general staff, have to smoke at bus stop, off hosp grounds, all wear their white coats and uniforms, then go back in, I have complained about it, but to no avail. So their uniforms then smell smoky? It's not just the smell, third hand smoke carried on the clothes and hair of smokers can contain carcinogens. And what scientific journal did you read that snippet of information in? Or is it your personal opinion? " No it's not my personal opinion. I remember reading about it during research about smoking for a module about drug, smoking and sex education but couldn't tell you the specific references for the books and journals I read. However to jog my memory, I Googled 'third hand smoke clothes' and found articles from scientific sites, anti smoking sites and news sites. If I'd only found them on anti smoking sites I'd have taken it with a pinch of salt. Just read a little more about the way the toxins can build up even in furniture and on walls and can remain for a long time after the smoker has extinguished their cigarette. Including lead and cyanide. | |||
"This schoolgate an has no legal force whatsoever. This illiberalism has to stop Protecting children from the harmful effects of cigarette smoke is hardly liberalism. What about protecting them from harmful exhaust fumes from cars and lorries, that's as bad for their health if not worse I think thats a plan! Maybe the teacher in question will get round to that soon..... What's the teacher going to do, ban driving throughout country incase they drive past a child." Or maybe just by/near the schoolgates? | |||
"This schoolgate an has no legal force whatsoever. This illiberalism has to stop Protecting children from the harmful effects of cigarette smoke is hardly liberalism. Are the children actually with the parents at the schoolgates when the parents are smoking? I thought the parents were waiting for the children to come out of school?
no idea
But I have always tought my children to respect their teachers, education and those who provide it shouldnt be taken for granted there are many country who would love and be grateful for our education system
There for if a teacher requested me not to do something I wouldn't do it out of respect for them, plus it sets an example for your children
how can you teach your kids to respect teachers if you don't yourself
What if you thought a teachers decision was wrong? Would you question it or would you just respect the teachers decision no matter how wrong you thought the teacher was?
if i was doing something that the teacher didn't like and requested me to stop on or around the school i would stop, i work on the principle teachers have common sense and wouldn't make a stupid or unreasonable request
And you'd do that even if you thought you were right in doing what you were doing and that the teacher was wrong in asking you to stop what you were doing?
You'd tell your child the teacher was wrong but I've agreed to stop anyway?
Doesnt anyone think that people should stand up for what they believe to be right regardless of who says otherwise whetehr thats teachers, police, politicians etc. Kids should be taught to stand up for their beliefs? "i honestly cant imagine me doing anything on or around a school that i wouldn't be happy to stop if asked so not sure how to answer that | |||
"Twenty years ago Mary Whitehouse said we shoulnt have nudity. In the 1950s there was the DH Laurence trial. Should we have banned udity and porn?" Now I'm convinced you're on a wind up. | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
"There is very little evidence for secodhand smoke and none whatsoever for thirdhand smoke. They are just concepts dreamed up to jusify bullying people who in this case are just staning on a public highway doing something legal" What about the mess and the image it portrays to the children ? | |||
"I walk past a large school most days, all the dinner ladies stand outside the gates, smoking and drinking cans, which they just drop when empty, same at local hospital, drs, nurses, general staff, have to smoke at bus stop, off hosp grounds, all wear their white coats and uniforms, then go back in, I have complained about it, but to no avail. So their uniforms then smell smoky? It's not just the smell, third hand smoke carried on the clothes and hair of smokers can contain carcinogens. And what scientific journal did you read that snippet of information in? Or is it your personal opinion? No it's not my personal opinion. I remember reading about it during research about smoking for a module about drug, smoking and sex education but couldn't tell you the specific references for the books and journals I read. However to jog my memory, I Googled 'third hand smoke clothes' and found articles from scientific sites, anti smoking sites and news sites. If I'd only found them on anti smoking sites I'd have taken it with a pinch of salt. Just read a little more about the way the toxins can build up even in furniture and on walls and can remain for a long time after the smoker has extinguished their cigarette. Including lead and cyanide. " Just googled it. And who was it that popped up? Yep, the daily mail! Haha. And the 'test' was conducted indoors, not outside! Now, correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't smoke disperse when exposed to air/wind? | |||
"There is very little evidence for secodhand smoke and none whatsoever for thirdhand smoke. They are just concepts dreamed up to jusify bullying people who in this case are just staning on a public highway doing something legal" Yeah I get that but it can fuck with asthma and lead to your kids smoking in future when you'd probably rather they didn't. I dont want to quit smoking and I dont suffer for it, but still... a gang of smokers by the school gates is disrespectful. | |||
"I walk past a large school most days, all the dinner ladies stand outside the gates, smoking and drinking cans, which they just drop when empty, same at local hospital, drs, nurses, general staff, have to smoke at bus stop, off hosp grounds, all wear their white coats and uniforms, then go back in, I have complained about it, but to no avail. So their uniforms then smell smoky? It's not just the smell, third hand smoke carried on the clothes and hair of smokers can contain carcinogens. And what scientific journal did you read that snippet of information in? Or is it your personal opinion? No it's not my personal opinion. I remember reading about it during research about smoking for a module about drug, smoking and sex education but couldn't tell you the specific references for the books and journals I read. However to jog my memory, I Googled 'third hand smoke clothes' and found articles from scientific sites, anti smoking sites and news sites. If I'd only found them on anti smoking sites I'd have taken it with a pinch of salt. Just read a little more about the way the toxins can build up even in furniture and on walls and can remain for a long time after the smoker has extinguished their cigarette. Including lead and cyanide. Just googled it. And who was it that popped up? Yep, the daily mail! Haha. And the 'test' was conducted indoors, not outside! Now, correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't smoke disperse when exposed to air/wind? " I personally didn't see any Daily Mail links and wouldn't refer to them as evidence. Don't think I'd have got my degree by citing the DM. My third hand smoke comment was in relation to people smoking in uniforms then going into hospitals, not smoking outside school gates. | |||
"the image it portrays to the children ? " This is the crux of the matter for me and I'm a little astonished that people are actually complaining about it! | |||
| |||
"the image it portrays to the children ? This is the crux of the matter for me and I'm a little astonished that people are actually complaining about it!" The image of an adult smoking a cigarette? | |||
"Should 'disrespectful' beaviour be banned?If so then who defines it?" Banned? No, as an adult you should be able to tell the difference and it should be defined by your own sense of morality and consideration for others. | |||
"the image it portrays to the children ? This is the crux of the matter for me and I'm a little astonished that people are actually complaining about it! The image of an adult smoking a cigarette? " Of a group if adults smoking despite a request for them to refrain. | |||
| |||
"I walk past a large school most days, all the dinner ladies stand outside the gates, smoking and drinking cans, which they just drop when empty, same at local hospital, drs, nurses, general staff, have to smoke at bus stop, off hosp grounds, all wear their white coats and uniforms, then go back in, I have complained about it, but to no avail. So their uniforms then smell smoky? It's not just the smell, third hand smoke carried on the clothes and hair of smokers can contain carcinogens. And what scientific journal did you read that snippet of information in? Or is it your personal opinion? No it's not my personal opinion. I remember reading about it during research about smoking for a module about drug, smoking and sex education but couldn't tell you the specific references for the books and journals I read. However to jog my memory, I Googled 'third hand smoke clothes' and found articles from scientific sites, anti smoking sites and news sites. If I'd only found them on anti smoking sites I'd have taken it with a pinch of salt. Just read a little more about the way the toxins can build up even in furniture and on walls and can remain for a long time after the smoker has extinguished their cigarette. Including lead and cyanide. Just googled it. And who was it that popped up? Yep, the daily mail! Haha. And the 'test' was conducted indoors, not outside! Now, correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't smoke disperse when exposed to air/wind? I personally didn't see any Daily Mail links and wouldn't refer to them as evidence. Don't think I'd have got my degree by citing the DM. My third hand smoke comment was in relation to people smoking in uniforms then going into hospitals, not smoking outside school gates. " But, as i said, the 'test' was conducted 'indoors', not 'outdoors'! Granted, if smoke isn't able to disperse freely, then it will cling to surfaces, just as soot, car exhaust and other smokey substances will. If outside however, it will disperse freely! | |||
"I walk past a large school most days, all the dinner ladies stand outside the gates, smoking and drinking cans, which they just drop when empty, same at local hospital, drs, nurses, general staff, have to smoke at bus stop, off hosp grounds, all wear their white coats and uniforms, then go back in, I have complained about it, but to no avail. So their uniforms then smell smoky? It's not just the smell, third hand smoke carried on the clothes and hair of smokers can contain carcinogens. And what scientific journal did you read that snippet of information in? Or is it your personal opinion? No it's not my personal opinion. I remember reading about it during research about smoking for a module about drug, smoking and sex education but couldn't tell you the specific references for the books and journals I read. However to jog my memory, I Googled 'third hand smoke clothes' and found articles from scientific sites, anti smoking sites and news sites. If I'd only found them on anti smoking sites I'd have taken it with a pinch of salt. Just read a little more about the way the toxins can build up even in furniture and on walls and can remain for a long time after the smoker has extinguished their cigarette. Including lead and cyanide. Just googled it. And who was it that popped up? Yep, the daily mail! Haha. And the 'test' was conducted indoors, not outside! Now, correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't smoke disperse when exposed to air/wind? I personally didn't see any Daily Mail links and wouldn't refer to them as evidence. Don't think I'd have got my degree by citing the DM. My third hand smoke comment was in relation to people smoking in uniforms then going into hospitals, not smoking outside school gates. But, as i said, the 'test' was conducted 'indoors', not 'outdoors'! Granted, if smoke isn't able to disperse freely, then it will cling to surfaces, just as soot, car exhaust and other smokey substances will. If outside however, it will disperse freely!" So none of it is going to stick? None at all? I've been near people who've just come in from having a cig outside. And also smelled car exhaust on my own clothes after walking down a busy road. It does not all make a break for the sky. | |||
"the image it portrays to the children ? This is the crux of the matter for me and I'm a little astonished that people are actually complaining about it! The image of an adult smoking a cigarette? Of a group if adults smoking despite a request for them to refrain. " Hopefully some of the children will look at these parents and think they are standing up to someone who they think are wrong. A good lesson in life. | |||
"the image it portrays to the children ? This is the crux of the matter for me and I'm a little astonished that people are actually complaining about it! The image of an adult smoking a cigarette? Of a group if adults smoking despite a request for them to refrain. " You appeat to be arguing that groups of adults should just do what someone else tells them to do. Is that right? | |||
"Are you guys for real?" | |||
"the image it portrays to the children ? This is the crux of the matter for me and I'm a little astonished that people are actually complaining about it! The image of an adult smoking a cigarette? Of a group if adults smoking despite a request for them to refrain. Hopefully some of the children will look at these parents and think they are standing up to someone who they think are wrong. A good lesson in life." With a group called 'get the bitch out'? | |||
"the image it portrays to the children ? This is the crux of the matter for me and I'm a little astonished that people are actually complaining about it! The image of an adult smoking a cigarette? Of a group if adults smoking despite a request for them to refrain. Hopefully some of the children will look at these parents and think they are standing up to someone who they think are wrong. A good lesson in life." So it's wrong to want to portray the school in a good light ? | |||
"the image it portrays to the children ? This is the crux of the matter for me and I'm a little astonished that people are actually complaining about it! The image of an adult smoking a cigarette? Of a group if adults smoking despite a request for them to refrain. Hopefully some of the children will look at these parents and think they are standing up to someone who they think are wrong. A good lesson in life. With a group called 'get the bitch out'?" She's not popular then? | |||
"I walk past a large school most days, all the dinner ladies stand outside the gates, smoking and drinking cans, which they just drop when empty, same at local hospital, drs, nurses, general staff, have to smoke at bus stop, off hosp grounds, all wear their white coats and uniforms, then go back in, I have complained about it, but to no avail. So their uniforms then smell smoky? It's not just the smell, third hand smoke carried on the clothes and hair of smokers can contain carcinogens. And what scientific journal did you read that snippet of information in? Or is it your personal opinion? No it's not my personal opinion. I remember reading about it during research about smoking for a module about drug, smoking and sex education but couldn't tell you the specific references for the books and journals I read. However to jog my memory, I Googled 'third hand smoke clothes' and found articles from scientific sites, anti smoking sites and news sites. If I'd only found them on anti smoking sites I'd have taken it with a pinch of salt. Just read a little more about the way the toxins can build up even in furniture and on walls and can remain for a long time after the smoker has extinguished their cigarette. Including lead and cyanide. Just googled it. And who was it that popped up? Yep, the daily mail! Haha. And the 'test' was conducted indoors, not outside! Now, correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't smoke disperse when exposed to air/wind? I personally didn't see any Daily Mail links and wouldn't refer to them as evidence. Don't think I'd have got my degree by citing the DM. My third hand smoke comment was in relation to people smoking in uniforms then going into hospitals, not smoking outside school gates. But, as i said, the 'test' was conducted 'indoors', not 'outdoors'! Granted, if smoke isn't able to disperse freely, then it will cling to surfaces, just as soot, car exhaust and other smokey substances will. If outside however, it will disperse freely! So none of it is going to stick? None at all? I've been near people who've just come in from having a cig outside. And also smelled car exhaust on my own clothes after walking down a busy road. It does not all make a break for the sky." I have no clue whatsoever what happens to smoke when in an outside envirnment. As there hasn't been any 'tests' done for that scenario! You quoted a 'test' done for third hand smoke, and i just quoted that the 'test' was conducted indoors and not outside. So, until such a 'test' IS conducted, we may never know will we! As it's not very scientific to assume that both scenarios will reach the same results! | |||
"the image it portrays to the children ? This is the crux of the matter for me and I'm a little astonished that people are actually complaining about it! The image of an adult smoking a cigarette? Of a group if adults smoking despite a request for them to refrain. You appeat to be arguing that groups of adults should just do what someone else tells them to do. Is that right?" In this case yes as it's a reasonable request. Obviously not in all cases as that would be extremely silly. | |||
| |||
| |||
"Twenty years ago Mary Whitehouse said we shoulnt have nudity. In the 1950s there was the DH Laurence trial. Should we have banned udity and porn?" Would you stand outside a school gate where parents are waiting with their kids looking at a porn magazine?? | |||
| |||
"the image it portrays to the children ? This is the crux of the matter for me and I'm a little astonished that people are actually complaining about it! The image of an adult smoking a cigarette? Of a group if adults smoking despite a request for them to refrain. Hopefully some of the children will look at these parents and think they are standing up to someone who they think are wrong. A good lesson in life. So it's wrong to want to portray the school in a good light ?" Allowing adults to smoke outdoors whilst they wait for their kids doesn't portray the school in a bad light in my opinion. Does this happen at any other schools in the UK ? | |||
| |||
"Well the difference would appear to be that the company pay the wages of the people they are banning from smoking near the doorway. In the school example it's the other way around. True but you enter a contract with the school when you enrol your child. If outside gates not on school property and school has no legal right to tell you what to do on public path, all they can do is ask parents not to smoke" Homework happens away from school grounds and parents are asked to assist/encourage that. I still think there may be a curtilage argument to be made on the point of "at the school gates". Calling the Headteacher a bitch and giving her abuse on social media for taking the stance that the whole school community is affected does not make this a pleasant story about one person trying to take away a groups right to smoke. On the flip side, school children in uniform committing anti-social acts away from the school are not deemed to be none of the school's business. The children get identified as the school and the Headteacher is often asked to intervene with the parents. Littering is not just anti-social and the case could be made just on littering the pavement outside the school. | |||
"the image it portrays to the children ? This is the crux of the matter for me and I'm a little astonished that people are actually complaining about it! The image of an adult smoking a cigarette? Of a group if adults smoking despite a request for them to refrain. Hopefully some of the children will look at these parents and think they are standing up to someone who they think are wrong. A good lesson in life. So it's wrong to want to portray the school in a good light ? Allowing adults to smoke outdoors whilst they wait for their kids doesn't portray the school in a bad light in my opinion. Does this happen at any other schools in the UK ? " But isn't it the headmistress's opinion that counts here, she is after all trying to turn around a school wich is under achieving and shouldn't she be congratulated for this. | |||
"This schoolgate an has no legal force whatsoever. This illiberalism has to stop Protecting children from the harmful effects of cigarette smoke is hardly liberalism. What about protecting them from harmful exhaust fumes from cars and lorries, that's as bad for their health if not worse I think thats a plan! Maybe the teacher in question will get round to that soon..... What's the teacher going to do, ban driving throughout country incase they drive past a child. Or maybe just by/near the schoolgates?" And what about the children walking home with their parents, still fumes from cars driving by, getting into their lungs and clothes, smoking not the only harmful thing children come into contact with at end of day, so if want to ban smoking, need to ban driving to, and anything else harmful to society | |||
"the image it portrays to the children ? This is the crux of the matter for me and I'm a little astonished that people are actually complaining about it! The image of an adult smoking a cigarette? Of a group if adults smoking despite a request for them to refrain. Hopefully some of the children will look at these parents and think they are standing up to someone who they think are wrong. A good lesson in life. So it's wrong to want to portray the school in a good light ? Allowing adults to smoke outdoors whilst they wait for their kids doesn't portray the school in a bad light in my opinion. Does this happen at any other schools in the UK ? But isn't it the headmistress's opinion that counts here, she is after all trying to turn around a school wich is under achieving and shouldn't she be congratulated for this. " The headteachers opinion is ,of course, important. The point I was (badly ) trying to make was that if parents are allowed to smoke at the gates of all the other schools in the UK then are those other headteachers failing the school? On the flipside, maybe, just maybe this headteacher has got it wrong and the other hundreds of headteachers know how to run a school?
How does stopping parents from smoking near the school stop or even help the school from under achieving? I'd have thought classroom time is the way forward. | |||
"There is very little evidence for secodhand smoke and none whatsoever for thirdhand smoke. They are just concepts dreamed up to jusify bullying people who in this case are just staning on a public highway doing something legal" I think Roy Castle would have disagreed with you. You have taken a line that just opposes the concept by making statements and asking questions outside of that this Headteacher is trying to do. As to the posts about standing up to teachers when they are wrong again, this can be done in a non-aggressive and respectful way that teaches your children how to address problems without resorting to embarrassing, bullying or demeaning anyone. Children learn from us all. A picket line of chain smoking parents asserting their "rights" to smoke whenever they like is such a good lesson for them. It goes so well with the lesson that if you are asked to do anything you don't want to do you should throw a strop on social media, call people names and try to bully them. | |||
"the image it portrays to the children ? This is the crux of the matter for me and I'm a little astonished that people are actually complaining about it! The image of an adult smoking a cigarette? Of a group if adults smoking despite a request for them to refrain. Hopefully some of the children will look at these parents and think they are standing up to someone who they think are wrong. A good lesson in life. So it's wrong to want to portray the school in a good light ? Allowing adults to smoke outdoors whilst they wait for their kids doesn't portray the school in a bad light in my opinion. Does this happen at any other schools in the UK ? But isn't it the headmistress's opinion that counts here, she is after all trying to turn around a school wich is under achieving and shouldn't she be congratulated for this. The headteachers opinion is ,of course, important. The point I was (badly ) trying to make was that if parents are allowed to smoke at the gates of all the other schools in the UK then are those other headteachers failing the school? On the flipside, maybe, just maybe this headteacher has got it wrong and the other hundreds of headteachers know how to run a school?
How does stopping parents from smoking near the school stop or even help the school from under achieving? I'd have thought classroom time is the way forward."She obviously knows what she is doing as she has been successful before. | |||
"What you said earlier. . So, these parents blow the smoke into their childrens faces?? Get real! Doesn't smoke go upwards and disperse in the air? And i thought the whole issue here was parents smoking while 'waiting' for their kids? And what you just said. I have no clue whatsoever what happens to smoke when in an outside envirnment. " But i DO know it doesn't float around your head like it does in indoor environment! Try quoting the whole of the post to get the context of my words correct. Instead of just picking one sentence to suit your arguement! | |||
"What you said earlier. . So, these parents blow the smoke into their childrens faces?? Get real! Doesn't smoke go upwards and disperse in the air? And i thought the whole issue here was parents smoking while 'waiting' for their kids? And what you just said. I have no clue whatsoever what happens to smoke when in an outside envirnment. But i DO know it doesn't float around your head like it does in indoor environment! Try quoting the whole of the post to get the context of my words correct. Instead of just picking one sentence to suit your arguement!" Maybe if your argument made sense you could have quoted it all. | |||
"What you said earlier. . So, these parents blow the smoke into their childrens faces?? Get real! Doesn't smoke go upwards and disperse in the air? And i thought the whole issue here was parents smoking while 'waiting' for their kids? And what you just said. I have no clue whatsoever what happens to smoke when in an outside envirnment. But i DO know it doesn't float around your head like it does in indoor environment! Try quoting the whole of the post to get the context of my words correct. Instead of just picking one sentence to suit your arguement!" I've read your argument on smoke dispersing outside and I can't and won't cite any studies. What I will say is that my own experience of walking behind smokers outdoors is that I smell smoke, I have breathed it in (I'm short and lots of children are my height) and the smell has lingered on my clothes when I have gone inside. It's not a study but it's evidence enough for me that smoking outside does not all go upwards and out of the way. | |||
"the image it portrays to the children ? This is the crux of the matter for me and I'm a little astonished that people are actually complaining about it! The image of an adult smoking a cigarette? Of a group if adults smoking despite a request for them to refrain. Hopefully some of the children will look at these parents and think they are standing up to someone who they think are wrong. A good lesson in life. So it's wrong to want to portray the school in a good light ? Allowing adults to smoke outdoors whilst they wait for their kids doesn't portray the school in a bad light in my opinion. Does this happen at any other schools in the UK ? But isn't it the headmistress's opinion that counts here, she is after all trying to turn around a school wich is under achieving and shouldn't she be congratulated for this. The headteachers opinion is ,of course, important. The point I was (badly ) trying to make was that if parents are allowed to
smoke at the gates of all the other schools in the UK then are those other headteachers failing the school? On the flipside, maybe, just maybe this headteacher has got it wrong and the other hundreds of headteachers know how to run a school?
How does stopping parents from smoking near the school stop or even help the school from under achieving?
I'd have thought classroom time is the way forward.
She obviously knows what she is doing as she has been successful before. "I'd be interested in seeing if she's banned parents from smoking at other school(s) she's been at or whether she used other methods, like actually teaching. | |||
"This schoolgate an has no legal force whatsoever. This illiberalism has to stop Protecting children from the harmful effects of cigarette smoke is hardly liberalism. Are the children actually with the parents at the schoolgates when the parents are smoking? I thought the parents were waiting for the children to come out of school?
no idea
But I have always tought my children to respect their teachers, education and those who provide it shouldnt be taken for granted there are many country who would love and be grateful for our education system
There for if a teacher requested me not to do something I wouldn't do it out of respect for them, plus it sets an example for your children
how can you teach your kids to respect teachers if you don't yourself" | |||
| |||
"How does stopping parents from smoking near the school stop or even help the school from under achieving? I'd have thought classroom time is the way forward." Helps by showing parents the school expects better standards in and out of the classroom. Fair bet that parents leaning against the school gates chugging on cancer sticks and shouting abuse at the staff ain't setting the best example. | |||
