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Tories Want To Scrap Human Rights And Leave The EU.
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By *RYBBW OP Couple
over a year ago
Leeds. |
Just heard this on the news. So what are your thoughts on this ? Are the Gorvernment doing this for all the right reasons ? Or is it simply because the EU and human rights are getting in the way of the Tories/Lib-Dems plans ? |
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"Just heard this on the news. So what are your thoughts on this ? Are the Gorvernment doing this for all the right reasons ? Or is it simply because the EU and human rights are getting in the way of the Tories/Lib-Dems plans ?"
I personal y don't think it's because it getting in the way of there plans, more like our leaders might be waking up and we should run our own country and not be dictated to by some jumped up know it all at Brussels. |
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I wish, just once on a political thread someone would answer my questions without some sarky dig at one party or another.
I ask because I want to know and learn about these things but it just reminds me how childish politics is. |
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"I personal y don't think it's because it getting in the way of there plans, more like our leaders might be waking up and we should run our own country and not be dictated to by some jumped up know it all at Brussels."
I agree with Human Rights 101% but not the way they are defined and being enforced by the ECHR. We as a country should have the right to deport foreign criminals.
As for the EU, I am sick of my country being dictated to by an undemocratic, corrupt organisation and bled dry financially for the priviledge. |
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"Just heard this on the news. So what are your thoughts on this ? Are the Gorvernment doing this for all the right reasons ? Or is it simply because the EU and human rights are getting in the way of the Tories/Lib-Dems plans ?"
Don't know about Tory plans, but the Limp Dims would keep us IN the EU at any cost.
The EU could have been a force for good, but it has turned into a monster that is totally out of control.
Any company or institution in the real world has to have its accounts audited and signed off as true or face a hefty penalty. The EU hasn't done this for the last 18 years. In the last financial year 4 billion Euros went missing, no-one knows (or wants to know) where it went, it just seemed to vanish into the ether. Then the communist Barroso says that it is only a small amount and doesn't matter 
The EU has three presidents, all on more money than Obama, did anyone vote for them? or does anyone even know their names without looking it up?
It has just been revealed that the EU spent over 2 billion Euro's on marketing, publicity, and advertising in the last financial year, more than the Coca Cola company spends worldwide. Marketing and advertising WHAT? apart from bureaucrats inflated ego's.
Britain should get out of the EU. and hopefully others will follow until the whole rotten, corrupt, undemocratic, communist, criminal, mafia dominated, edifice collapses in ruins.
Then maybe a new democratic association of nation states will rise from the ashes.
The EU must be destroyed for the good of everyone in Europe. |
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"I wish, just once on a political thread someone would answer my questions without some sarky dig at one party or another.
I ask because I want to know and learn about these things but it just reminds me how childish politics is. "
I don't think politics is childish just some on here are. And yes we can choose to pull out of EU, it was us the choose to go into it, but look at all the trouble it caused over MR Hook Hand.
But don't worry it don't mean we're back to the old ages were people will get miss treated, well I hope not  |
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"I personal y don't think it's because it getting in the way of there plans, more like our leaders might be waking up and we should run our own country and not be dictated to by some jumped up know it all at Brussels.
I agree with Human Rights 101% but not the way they are defined and being enforced by the ECHR. We as a country should have the right to deport foreign criminals.
As for the EU, I am sick of my country being dictated to by an undemocratic, corrupt organisation and bled dry financially for the priviledge."
Here here |
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"because of the bedroom tax
staling more money from the poor
an give to rich
"
Nit sure what you mean, but if you think we have left EU just because they want to get away Scott free with bedroom tax, your sadly mistaken. |
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The eu was a good idea. But like any non elected government its become to wrapped up in its own spin. So yes I believe we should leave and make our mps do the job we pay them for. Human rights has become a joke.13 million was payed to prisoners last year in compensation mainly using the human rights card. Madness. And don't start Mr on how much we pay the eu every year. And can someone tell me what for? |
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"because of the bedroom tax
staling more money from the poor
an give to rich
Nit sure what you mean, but if you think we have left EU just because they want to get away Scott free with bedroom tax, your sadly mistaken."
Believe me if Brussels manages to get everything it wants the so called bedroom tax will be the least of anyone's worries.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"because of the bedroom tax
staling more money from the poor
an give to rich
Nit sure what you mean, but if you think we have left EU just because they want to get away Scott free with bedroom tax, your sadly mistaken."
no that be you
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I wish, just once on a political thread someone would answer my questions without some sarky dig at one party or another.
I ask because I want to know and learn about these things but it just reminds me how childish politics is. "
Yes, you can opt out of any international agreements and repeal any laws that a country see fits, they dont usually tend to do so but it can be done. |
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"because of the bedroom tax
staling more money from the poor
an give to rich
Nit sure what you mean, but if you think we have left EU just because they want to get away Scott free with bedroom tax, your sadly mistaken.
Believe me if Brussels manages to get everything it wants the so called bedroom tax will be the least of anyone's worries.
"
That's what I was trying to point out, the bedroom tax is pennies to Brussels, look at the above post of lost 4billion and that was small change to them.
Let's once again stand on our own two feet. |
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"because of the bedroom tax
staling more money from the poor
an give to rich
Nit sure what you mean, but if you think we have left EU just because they want to get away Scott free with bedroom tax, your sadly mistaken. no that be you
"
Sorry your making no sense, if i miss quoted you im sorry, bu that's why I said I was insure what you meant. Would you care to explain please. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Can you opt out of human rights?"
Not really. Britain was there at the start of the International Human Rights Treaties of 1945 and remain bound by those. To remain in the UN we will have to stick to those.
They really want to opt out of anything that has come from the European Convention on Human Rights from 1999/2000 onwards.
Theresa May used ECHR and other Human Rights legislation to stop Gary McKinnon being deported to the USA for hacking. Funny how Human Rights legislation was praised by the government at that point.
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"The eu was a good idea. But like any non elected government its become to wrapped up in its own spin. So yes I believe we should leave and make our mps do the job we pay them for. Human rights has become a joke.13 million was payed to prisoners last year in compensation mainly using the human rights card. Madness. And don't start Mr on how much we pay the eu every year. And can someone tell me what for?"
Around 50 million a day (every day) to pay for the salaries of 3 presidents, a parliament that switches from one country to another every month, billions going into mafia pockets, and the aforesaid advertising budjet, to name just a few.
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By *ickndomCouple
over a year ago
Wimborne |
"Can you opt out of human rights?"
Why not the French and Italians seem to forget all about Human rights when it suits
But above all I wonder who wrote them as they seem to cause so much grief, and are often abused or mis used to protect those who abuse others human rights
I'll go get me hard hat on  |
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"The eu was a good idea. But like any non elected government its become to wrapped up in its own spin. So yes I believe we should leave and make our mps do the job we pay them for. Human rights has become a joke.13 million was payed to prisoners last year in compensation mainly using the human rights card. Madness. And don't start Mr on how much we pay the eu every year. And can someone tell me what for?
Around 50 million a day (every day) to pay for the salaries of 3 presidents, a parliament that switches from one country to another every month, billions going into mafia pockets, and the aforesaid advertising budjet, to name just a few.
"
well fifty million a day would go a long way to sort out our economic problems |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"
I agree with Human Rights 101% but not the way they are defined and being enforced by the ECHR. We as a country should have the right to deport foreign criminals. "
And if we don't know where they come from? Many non-criminals, or at least those arrested for simply working illegally* in the UK, have destroyed their papers precisely so they CAN'T be deported.
Where do we send them? St Kilda? Ailsa Craig? The Isle of Wight?
* I know in Mayland that's a hanging offence.
"As for the EU, I am sick of my country being dictated to by an undemocratic, corrupt organisation and bled dry financially for the priviledge."
The EU isn't just about being bled dry. It's what allows us to trade with European countries without stupid tariffs being imposed and what allows us to travel and work in Europe with having to ask permission. |
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"The eu was a good idea. But like any non elected government its become to wrapped up in its own spin. So yes I believe we should leave and make our mps do the job we pay them for. Human rights has become a joke.13 million was payed to prisoners last year in compensation mainly using the human rights card. Madness. And don't start Mr on how much we pay the eu every year. And can someone tell me what for?
Around 50 million a day (every day) to pay for the salaries of 3 presidents, a parliament that switches from one country to another every month, billions going into mafia pockets, and the aforesaid advertising budjet, to name just a few.
well fifty million a day would go a long way to sort out our economic problems"
Oh, I forgot to mention Kathy (useless) Ashton the worlds highest paid female politician. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Can you opt out of human rights?
Not really. Britain was there at the start of the International Human Rights Treaties of 1945 and remain bound by those. To remain in the UN we will have to stick to those.
They really want to opt out of anything that has come from the European Convention on Human Rights from 1999/2000 onwards.
Theresa May used ECHR and other Human Rights legislation to stop Gary McKinnon being deported to the USA for hacking. Funny how Human Rights legislation was praised by the government at that point.
"
Technically they could, I don't believe that they would in a million years, it would be political suicide nationally and internationally and highly embarrassing if they did. They would lose far more if they did than they would win if they didn't, probably political posturing in advance of a new treaty/legislation than anything else. |
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"
I agree with Human Rights 101% but not the way they are defined and being enforced by the ECHR. We as a country should have the right to deport foreign criminals.
And if we don't know where they come from? Many non-criminals, or at least those arrested for simply working illegally* in the UK, have destroyed their papers precisely so they CAN'T be deported.
Where do we send them? St Kilda? Ailsa Craig? The Isle of Wight?
* I know in Mayland that's a hanging offence.
As for the EU, I am sick of my country being dictated to by an undemocratic, corrupt organisation and bled dry financially for the priviledge.
The EU isn't just about being bled dry. It's what allows us to trade with European countries without stupid tariffs being imposed and what allows us to travel and work in Europe with having to ask permission."
I don't ever remember having to ask for Franco's permission to have a holiday in Spain in the 70's.  Just had to wave a passport, no big deal.
As for the trade myth, look up the "Rotterdam effect" |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"
Around 50 million a day (every day) to pay for the salaries of 3 presidents, a parliament that switches from one country to another every month, billions going into mafia pockets, and the aforesaid advertising budjet, to name just a few.
"
How can 50 million a day (every day) produce billions for the mafia?
If it CAN be done, it's a really good trick. |
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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago
Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound |
"Can you opt out of human rights?
Not really. Britain was there at the start of the International Human Rights Treaties of 1945 and remain bound by those. To remain in the UN we will have to stick to those.
They really want to opt out of anything that has come from the European Convention on Human Rights from 1999/2000 onwards.
Theresa May used ECHR and other Human Rights legislation to stop Gary McKinnon being deported to the USA for hacking. Funny how Human Rights legislation was praised by the government at that point.
Technically they could, I don't believe that they would in a million years, it would be political suicide nationally and internationally and highly embarrassing if they did. They would lose far more if they did than they would win if they didn't, probably political posturing in advance of a new treaty/legislation than anything else."
The technicality is meaningless unless you undo all of the rest of the law that builds from the basic UN HR treaties. It's posturing and feeds into this thinking that having Human Rights is a bad thing.
Equality and Human Rights have become synonymous with "do gooders" and "politically correct" as scathing dismissals of anyone saying anything against people being offensive.
Only the undeserving, feckless, poor and foreigners try and use human rights after all, don't they?   |
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"
Around 50 million a day (every day) to pay for the salaries of 3 presidents, a parliament that switches from one country to another every month, billions going into mafia pockets, and the aforesaid advertising budjet, to name just a few.
How can 50 million a day (every day) produce billions for the mafia?
If it CAN be done, it's a really good trick."
Maybe I missed the word "towards" but the EU's own figures show that 4 billion euros went missing last year. Remember Britain isn't the only contributor to the Brussels Mafia.
It was also admitted last year that for every 5 euros that goes to Bulgaria, one euro finishes in a Mafia pocket. Oh and don't get me on the Italian Olive Oil scam. |
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"
Around 50 million a day (every day) to pay for the salaries of 3 presidents, a parliament that switches from one country to another every month, billions going into mafia pockets, and the aforesaid advertising budjet, to name just a few.
How can 50 million a day (every day) produce billions for the mafia?
If it CAN be done, it's a really good trick."
Maths not your best subject then. 50 million x 365 days in a year was 18.25 billion last time I looked.  |
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"
I agree with Human Rights 101% but not the way they are defined and being enforced by the ECHR. We as a country should have the right to deport foreign criminals.
And if we don't know where they come from? Many non-criminals, or at least those arrested for simply working illegally* in the UK, have destroyed their papers precisely so they CAN'T be deported.
Where do we send them? St Kilda? Ailsa Craig? The Isle of Wight?
* I know in Mayland that's a hanging offence.
As for the EU, I am sick of my country being dictated to by an undemocratic, corrupt organisation and bled dry financially for the priviledge.
The EU isn't just about being bled dry. It's what allows us to trade with European countries without stupid tariffs being imposed and what allows us to travel and work in Europe with having to ask permission."
Foreign criminals are deported to their country of origin if known.
I don't want to be able to travel frrely and work in Europe wqithout asking permission if in return my Country is going to be used a a dumping ground for the dregs of Europe.
And there are plenty of other Countries to trade with. In fact, lets look at Europe... Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal all totally fucked financially thanks to the EU, can't see us doing much trade there!
Being in the EU is estimated to cost this country £170 billion per year. You do the maths. |
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"
Around 50 million a day (every day) to pay for the salaries of 3 presidents, a parliament that switches from one country to another every month, billions going into mafia pockets, and the aforesaid advertising budjet, to name just a few.
How can 50 million a day (every day) produce billions for the mafia?
If it CAN be done, it's a really good trick.
Maths not your best subject then. 50 million x 365 days in a year was 18.25 billion last time I looked. "
 |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"
Around 50 million a day (every day) to pay for the salaries of 3 presidents, a parliament that switches from one country to another every month, billions going into mafia pockets, and the aforesaid advertising budjet, to name just a few.
How can 50 million a day (every day) produce billions for the mafia?
If it CAN be done, it's a really good trick.
Maths not your best subject then. 50 million x 365 days in a year was 18.25 billion last time I looked.
"
The hint was in the 'every day'.
If you extend the term you can make almost any multiplication sum add up - until you get into the realms of Brian Cox. |
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Of course everybody here knows that the European Union (EU) has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR)?
Pulling out of the EU would have no effect on the UKs position as a signatory to the 1950 ECHR.
Incidentally, I find it curious that none of the other 46 (yes, forty six) countries which have signed the ECHR seem to have such a problem with it. |
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"I personal y don't think it's because it getting in the way of there plans, more like our leaders might be waking up and we should run our own country and not be dictated to by some jumped up know it all at Brussels.
I agree with Human Rights 101% but not the way they are defined and being enforced by the ECHR. We as a country should have the right to deport foreign criminals.
As for the EU, I am sick of my country being dictated to by an undemocratic, corrupt organisation and bled dry financially for the priviledge."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Can you opt out of human rights?
Technically they could, I don't believe that they would in a million years, it would be political suicide nationally and internationally and highly embarrassing if they did. They would lose far more if they did than they would win if they didn't, probably political posturing in advance of a new treaty/legislation than anything else.
The technicality is meaningless unless you undo all of the rest of the law that builds from the basic UN HR treaties. It's posturing and feeds into this thinking that having Human Rights is a bad thing.
Equality and Human Rights have become synonymous with "do gooders" and "politically correct" as scathing dismissals of anyone saying anything against people being offensive.
Only the undeserving, feckless, poor and foreigners try and use human rights after all, don't they? "
and thats why there is an attach on human rights principles, that they are been used by marginalised and disadvantages groups to demand quality and fairness and this runs counter the neo liberal ideology of the Government |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Forget brussels this is just pandering to the right wingers who think that everything is fault of the eu of which we are part of and have meps from all parties.
If anyone thinks the human rights act if scrapped will benefit the majority they are deluded since in power rights have been diluted for example the fact the millions protesting against nhs reforms aka privatisation were not allowed to be reported on by bbc purely because of the tory party conference if this is not an affront to democracy and right to be heard what is. Ffs there were snipers on the roof its like something you would hear of in china. |
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"Of course everybody here knows that the European Union (EU) has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR)?
Pulling out of the EU would have no effect on the UKs position as a signatory to the 1950 ECHR.
Incidentally, I find it curious that none of the other 46 (yes, forty six) countries which have signed the ECHR seem to have such a problem with it."
That's easy, because there not getting shit on like our country is, so they would have no reason to want out. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Like someone else said the eu was a good idea. Over the years it has changed. Why should we be dictated to by people who have no idea of how Britain works. Firstly we are an island that makes us apart from most . Human rights what a joke the rights of the many should outweigh the rights of an individual . As for political party's I don't care who runs as as long as they are fair and stand up to Europe. Just to prove how they throw your money away do you know the eu advertizing budget was more than coca cola ggggrrr |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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the tories wont be upsetting the eu and they wont be leaving it either its just more nonsense they are spouting to anyone that cares to listen .the eu is there retirement fund and come hell or high water we will still be in it in 20 yrs time |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Of course everybody here knows that the European Union (EU) has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR)?
Pulling out of the EU would have no effect on the UKs position as a signatory to the 1950 ECHR.
Incidentally, I find it curious that none of the other 46 (yes, forty six) countries which have signed the ECHR seem to have such a problem with it.
That's easy, because there not getting shit on like our country is, so they would have no reason to want out. "
............ so what makes the UK different?
Why is the UK 'getting shit on' as you put it? |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Like someone else said the eu was a good idea. Over the years it has changed. Why should we be dictated to by people who have no idea of how Britain works. ..............."
Many Brits have no idea how Britain works.
Most have a very clear idea of how they WANT it to work but that's a different thing. |
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"Of course everybody here knows that the European Union (EU) has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR)?
Pulling out of the EU would have no effect on the UKs position as a signatory to the 1950 ECHR.
Incidentally, I find it curious that none of the other 46 (yes, forty six) countries which have signed the ECHR seem to have such a problem with it.
That's easy, because there not getting shit on like our country is, so they would have no reason to want out.
............ so what makes the UK different?
Why is the UK 'getting shit on' as you put it?"
someone else mentioned this exact same thing Care to question them first |
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By *G LanaTV/TS
over a year ago
Gosport |
Remember its not just the party in power you would have to worry about should we opt out of the human rights conventin but every government after. That said its not as if our current government has a great track record on rights for the bulk of its population with signifcant attacks on employees rights. |
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The European Commission for Human Rights and the European Court have nothing to do with the EU. They are different organisations set up and run under different treaties.
You do have to be a signatory to the ECHR to join the EU.
We set up the ECHR and drew up the convention after WW2. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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havent they been on about dumping it anyway, and writing a UK constitution?
i would be all in favour of it, as long as its thought out and in favour of the public majority.
and, getting out of the EU, im still not convinved either way which option is best.
staying or going, i dont know |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Of course everybody here knows that the European Union (EU) has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR)?
Pulling out of the EU would have no effect on the UKs position as a signatory to the 1950 ECHR.
Incidentally, I find it curious that none of the other 46 (yes, forty six) countries which have signed the ECHR seem to have such a problem with it.
That's easy, because there not getting shit on like our country is, so they would have no reason to want out.
............ so what makes the UK different?
Why is the UK 'getting shit on' as you put it?
someone else mentioned this exact same thing Care to question them first "
You seem to have mentioned it first on this thread but I can understand your reluctance to reply. |
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"The eu was a good idea. But like any non elected government its become to wrapped up in its own spin. So yes I believe we should leave and make our mps do the job we pay them for. Human rights has become a joke.13 million was payed to prisoners last year in compensation mainly using the human rights card. Madness. And don't start Mr on how much we pay the eu every year. And can someone tell me what for?
Around 50 million a day (every day) to pay for the salaries of 3 presidents, a parliament that switches from one country to another every month, billions going into mafia pockets, and the aforesaid advertising budjet, to name just a few.
well fifty million a day would go a long way to sort out our economic problems"
it would sure help us thats for sure. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"-uck human right what happened to mine a honest hard working person who claims nothing too many do gooders on this earth if u dont work starve etc etc "
Funnily enough that's exactly what happens in many others parts of the world.
I'm happy with the 'do-gooders' thanks. |
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"I wish, just once on a political thread someone would answer my questions without some sarky dig at one party or another.
I ask because I want to know and learn about these things but it just reminds me how childish politics is. "
|
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"The eu was a good idea. But like any non elected government its become to wrapped up in its own spin. So yes I believe we should leave and make our mps do the job we pay them for. Human rights has become a joke.13 million was payed to prisoners last year in compensation mainly using the human rights card. Madness. And don't start Mr on how much we pay the eu every year. And can someone tell me what for?
Around 50 million a day (every day) to pay for the salaries of 3 presidents, a parliament that switches from one country to another every month, billions going into mafia pockets, and the aforesaid advertising budjet, to name just a few.
"
"A Parliament that switches from one country to another every month"....are you referring to the Presidency that each member country holds for six months?
Who are the three Presidents? I can only count two...
The European Commission
The European Council
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"-uck human right what happened to mine a honest hard working person who claims nothing too many do gooders on this earth if u dont work starve etc etc
Funnily enough that's exactly what happens in many others parts of the world.
I'm happy with the 'do-gooders' thanks."
I agree people cant be left with no money at all its not humane. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"-uck human right what happened to mine a honest hard working person who claims nothing too many do gooders on this earth if u dont work starve etc etc
Funnily enough that's exactly what happens in many others parts of the world.
I'm happy with the 'do-gooders' thanks.
I agree people cant be left with no money at all its not humane."
Maybe it's a Tory plot to get people robbing and hence into jail. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"-uck human right what happened to mine a honest hard working person who claims nothing too many do gooders on this earth if u dont work starve etc etc
Funnily enough that's exactly what happens in many others parts of the world.
I'm happy with the 'do-gooders' thanks.
I agree people cant be left with no money at all its not humane.
Maybe it's a Tory plot to get people robbing and hence into jail."
They are full the Tories are letting them out early right now. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"-uck human right what happened to mine a honest hard working person who claims nothing too many do gooders on this earth if u dont work starve etc etc
Funnily enough that's exactly what happens in many others parts of the world.
I'm happy with the 'do-gooders' thanks.
I agree people cant be left with no money at all its not humane.
Maybe it's a Tory plot to get people robbing and hence into jail.
They are full the Tories are letting them out early right now."
Perhaps they'll use the money saved by cancelling HS2 to build more prison places - or use hulks again. |
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"The eu was a good idea. But like any non elected government its become to wrapped up in its own spin. So yes I believe we should leave and make our mps do the job we pay them for. Human rights has become a joke.13 million was payed to prisoners last year in compensation mainly using the human rights card. Madness. And don't start Mr on how much we pay the eu every year. And can someone tell me what for?
Around 50 million a day (every day) to pay for the salaries of 3 presidents, a parliament that switches from one country to another every month, billions going into mafia pockets, and the aforesaid advertising budjet, to name just a few.
"A Parliament that switches from one country to another every month"....are you referring to the Presidency that each member country holds for six months?
Who are the three Presidents? I can only count two...
The European Commission
The European Council
"
The communist Barroso, president of the EU commission.
Herman van Rumpoy, president of the EU council.
Martin Schultz, president of the EU parliament. |
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Around 50 million a day (every day) to pay for the salaries of 3 presidents, a parliament that switches from one country to another every month, billions going into mafia pockets, and the aforesaid advertising budjet, to name just a few.
How can 50 million a day (every day) produce billions for the mafia?
If it CAN be done, it's a really good trick.
Maths not your best subject then. 50 million x 365 days in a year was 18.25 billion last time I looked.
The hint was in the 'every day'.
If you extend the term you can make almost any multiplication sum add up - until you get into the realms of Brian Cox."
I've heard of splitting hairs, but that was on a sub atomic scale |
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