FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > Gender reassignment
Gender reassignment
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I know this is a sensitive issue so I will state at the start that I have no prejudice against gender reassignment. I also believe fervently that everybody has the right to recognise their own sexuality and to adjust their body to how they would like it to be.
The point I raise is therefore simply a question of gender identification.
If a man seeks to change his gender to woman, but chooses to retain his penis, is it right for he/she to describe themselves as a Woman to persons with whom they are seeking to enjoy sex.
To me the defining features of a woman are boobs and pussy. A person with boobs and a penis does not appear to fit that description and therefore would appear to better suit the TV/TS/TD identity.
I am open to reconsider this so would appreciate considered thought from you folk. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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They simply tell the truth to avoid any embarrassment. I don't thimk it's a matter of labels, although I completely agree with the above comment - I think it's a matter of trust and security. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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In your example no I don't think it's right. The person may feel like a woman but if s/he still has a penis then it would be unfair on the other person if s/he at least didn't mention it. If s/he said s/he was a woman that would be misleading.
Transgender people have feelings... but so do non-transgender people. |
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"In your example no I don't think it's right. The person may feel like a woman but if s/he still has a penis then it would be unfair on the other person if s/he at least didn't mention it. If s/he said s/he was a woman that would be misleading.
Transgender people have feelings... but so do non-transgender people. "
Thank you!! I've been trying to reply to this thread but every time I read it back it sounds wrong. This is the general gist of what I wanted to say tho x |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"In your example no I don't think it's right. The person may feel like a woman but if s/he still has a penis then it would be unfair on the other person if s/he at least didn't mention it. If s/he said s/he was a woman that would be misleading.
Transgender people have feelings... but so do non-transgender people. "
I think what you have wrote is what I think but legally (like on a passport) I'm sure they can be classed as a female and still have a penis |
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If the person is legally recognised by society as a female and is therefore addressed to as a female, has papers showing they are female...then they are female regardless of them having a penis or not. |
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"
To me the defining features of a woman are boobs and pussy. "
Lets say that both my breasts are taken away...if I beleive what I have read above...I am no longer a woman because I no longer have boobs AND pussy...what am I then? |
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By *livia_KWoman
over a year ago
South London |
"If the person is legally recognised by society as a female and is therefore addressed to as a female, has papers showing they are female...then they are female regardless of them having a penis or not."
I completely agree with this. But I think what the OP was getting at is that if he sees a profile for a woman and the profile and pics says they are female, then if this woman happens to have a penis then they should say so in their profile so as to not mislead? At least that is how I read the initial post... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"what is in between your legs does not determine your gender. kind of does to a straight guy wanting an evening with a female lol"
yea ive had a few of them lol. |
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"If the person is legally recognised by society as a female and is therefore addressed to as a female, has papers showing they are female...then they are female regardless of them having a penis or not.
I completely agree with this. But I think what the OP was getting at is that if he sees a profile for a woman and the profile and pics says they are female, then if this woman happens to have a penis then they should say so in their profile so as to not mislead? At least that is how I read the initial post..."
Yes this is how I read it also.
As a pp said what is inbetween your legs doesn't determine your gender BUT to potential sexual partners it will matter (for the most part) |
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"If the person is legally recognised by society as a female and is therefore addressed to as a female, has papers showing they are female...then they are female regardless of them having a penis or not.
I completely agree with this. But I think what the OP was getting at is that if he sees a profile for a woman and the profile and pics says they are female, then if this woman happens to have a penis then they should say so in their profile so as to not mislead? At least that is how I read the initial post..."
Lets ask the OP!! Is this what you meant? because I do not read your post in that light at all...but the written word can and will always be miscontrued because we are all human and therefore imperfect. Please OP, clarify your thoughts on this 'issue' of yours. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"If the person is legally recognised by society as a female and is therefore addressed to as a female, has papers showing they are female...then they are female regardless of them having a penis or not.
I completely agree with this. But I think what the OP was getting at is that if he sees a profile for a woman and the profile and pics says they are female, then if this woman happens to have a penis then they should say so in their profile so as to not mislead? At least that is how I read the initial post...
Lets ask the OP!! Is this what you meant? because I do not read your post in that light at all...but the written word can and will always be miscontrued because we are all human and therefore imperfect. Please OP, clarify your thoughts on this 'issue' of yours."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"what is in between your legs does not determine your gender. "
I absolutely agree with you. But the OP said this-
"If a man seeks to change his gender to woman, but chooses to retain his penis, is it right for he/she to describe themselves as a Woman to persons with whom they are seeking to enjoy sex."
In this case I think it is wrong for the person to describe themself as a woman without any other explanation. Yes, the person's being and soul is female but their body isn't.
As for the other earlier comment about a woman with no breasts 'not being a woman anymore'- as above, her soul is female and she is no less of a woman. However, if she was meeting someone for sex I think it would be unfair of her not to mention the fact.
That all sounds harsh but I don't mean it to be. I accept people for what they are, not what body they are in. Hope that makes sense. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"what is in between your legs does not determine your gender. "
Interesting comment which i am struggling to understand so please help me. I am a male, through and through, so do I understand by this comment if I woke one morning and said "Call me Sally I am now a woman!" I would BE a woman?  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I like to think the term gender correction is more appropriate than gender reassignment…….!.
 "
It used to be "sex change". I am sorry if i have not kept up to date with the correct terms.  |
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By *livia_KWoman
over a year ago
South London |
"what is in between your legs does not determine your gender.
Interesting comment which i am struggling to understand so please help me. I am a male, through and through, so do I understand by this comment if I woke one morning and said "Call me Sally I am now a woman!" I would BE a woman? "
It is a tad more complicated than that. The terms 'sex' and 'gender' are often used interchangeably but when it comes to sexual and gender identity they are completely different things, sociologically and psychologically speaking.
A person can be born biologically male but feel they have been born into the wrong body and therefore identify as being gender female. It's not a case of just deciding that a person is bored of, say, being a man and just want to change to being a woman for something different!
That's my non-expert take on the matter. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I found this from the World Health Organisation.
"Sometimes it is hard to understand exactly what is meant by the term "gender", and how it differs from the closely related term "sex".
"Sex" refers to the biological and physiological characteristics that define men and women.
"Gender" refers to the socially constructed roles, behaviours, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women.
To put it another way:
"Male" and "female" are sex categories, while "masculine" and "feminine" are gender categories."
It would seem from this that operations aimed at changing a person's sexual organs should be called "Sex transformation"? as gender can be adopted by anyone? Or have I missed something?  |
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By *livia_KWoman
over a year ago
South London |
That is a very simplistic way to describe gender and there is a lot more to it than just socially contructed roles placed on men and women. Psychologists and sociologists have written entire books on the matter. So to sum it up in a few lines would be very difficult and would do those with gender identity issues a disservice.
I read numerous books on the topic when I studied psychology - it is impossible to sum it up here. I struggled to sum it up on 5000 word essays! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Its just a life style choice, if we didn't put labels on things , this would never be an issue, its just people like sheep wanting to follow a trend, to make them seem different.
just my 2 cents |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I have a friend who is transgender. She has had surgery now but for years she did have a penis. She has always been female, I can't think of her as anything other than female. She has always been in relationships with women, these relationships haven't lasted very long though because she has problems with the sex act ie, she wouldnt use her penis to give or receive pleasure.
The whole issue is very complex. My friend has been seeing a psychiatrist for many years and she was on a waiting list for surgery for years, but lives completely as a woman. She works, she legally changed her name, all her documentation is in her female name and essentially, apart from small
minded people who choose to call her abusive names, she is regarded and treated as female.
She had severe problems with her body and especially her male genitalia. She
felt these body parts were pretty much like cancerous growths. She struggled every day with seeing her penis, having to touch it to go to the loo and to have baths etc. This was why sex was such
a problem for her because she did
not want to feel pleasure from that organ.
This site would be her worst nightmare
I think. She certainly wouldn't ever
have met anyone for sex and she wouldn't ever displayed her male genitalia. Obviously other preop transsexuals don't have these issues and are able to enjoy sex whilst retaining their male genitalia Some
transsexuals never opt for corrective
surgery, it's doesn't make them any less a female. I suspect that we have more transvestites on the site rather than transsexual.
My friend has received corrective surgery but has not had sex with anyone. She is still attracted to women.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Can I just ask, is this thread in relation to the FF couple who had their gender changed by admin to MF?
I know several women who are either transitioning or have done so. Pre or post op they are women. In mannerisms or attitude, it's how they feel every day.
The most simplistic way I can describe it is this.... ladies, imagine waking up in the morning and finding you'd grown a dick instead of the usual plumbing. That's how TGs feel every day.
Some people can't for medical reasons have the unwanted bits removed. And for those that can there are levels of reconstructive surgery. They don't all get the fully working gear. It depends on what the surgeon has to work with so to speak.
So it's difficult. On a site like this where people are looking for sex and not love then this issue is more pertinent. I suppose you could liken it to someone looking for VWE, and someone turns up with a teeny weeny. People want to know what they are getting.
So I can sympathise with this FF couple, but someone who really doesn't get your situation has complained about your gender status and unfortunately I doubt it'll get changed. It's a shame that some still live in the past and don't realise the world is more complex than they'd like.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"That is a very simplistic way to describe gender and there is a lot more to it than just socially contructed roles placed on men and women. Psychologists and sociologists have written entire books on the matter. So to sum it up in a few lines would be very difficult and would do those with gender identity issues a disservice.
I read numerous books on the topic when I studied psychology - it is impossible to sum it up here. I struggled to sum it up on 5000 word essays!"
It is very apparent that this is a hugely complex issue. The World Health Organisation tried to create a simple definition for those who do not read books on the issue.
From that it would appear a human with a penis may be described as of the Male sex but have a feminine Gender. I have assumed the category used by Fab when you sign up is your Sex. How do others feel? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"That is a very simplistic way to describe gender and there is a lot more to it than just socially contructed roles placed on men and women. Psychologists and sociologists have written entire books on the matter. So to sum it up in a few lines would be very difficult and would do those with gender identity issues a disservice.
I read numerous books on the topic when I studied psychology - it is impossible to sum it up here. I struggled to sum it up on 5000 word essays!
It is very apparent that this is a hugely complex issue. The World Health Organisation tried to create a simple definition for those who do not read books on the issue.
From that it would appear a human with a penis may be described as of the Male sex but have a feminine Gender. I have assumed the category used by Fab when you sign up is your Sex. How do others feel?"
I do think it should go off what sexual organ you have when on here. So if you have a penis your classes as a male. I know it might seem harsh or upsetting for some to be classed as what they see as the wrong sexor gender but when you are on a site primarily looking to Ingage in a sexual act then it seems appropriate. I would be slightly annoyed if we had been chatting to what we thought was a female (because of the sex label on the profile) then it came out that they had a penis. I would feel as if I had been lied to or deceived.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Its just a life style choice, if we didn't put labels on things , this would never be an issue, its just people like sheep wanting to follow a trend, to make them seem different.
just my 2 cents "
believe me this is not a lifestyle choice, its a diagnosable medical condition. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" I would be slightly annoyed if we had been chatting to what we thought was a female (because of the sex label on the profile) then it came out that they had a penis. I would feel as if I had been lied to or deceived.
"
if people actually read our profile etc i don't think that would be a problem. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" I would be slightly annoyed if we had been chatting to what we thought was a female (because of the sex label on the profile) then it came out that they had a penis. I would feel as if I had been lied to or deceived.
if people actually read our profile etc i don't think that would be a problem."
We'll even if I was browsing and come across a female profile and it mentioned they still had a penis I would still feel as if they were deceiving people as to me in a place were sexual acts are what most people are on here for then it does come down to what sexual organs the person has not what gender they or there ID says they are. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" I would be slightly annoyed if we had been chatting to what we thought was a female (because of the sex label on the profile) then it came out that they had a penis. I would feel as if I had been lied to or deceived.
if people actually read our profile etc i don't think that would be a problem.
We'll even if I was browsing and come across a female profile and it mentioned they still had a penis I would still feel as if they were deceiving people as to me in a place were sexual acts are what most people are on here for then it does come down to what sexual organs the person has not what gender they or there ID says they are. "
wouldn't it be easier just to click off the profile and move on to the next one?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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" I would be slightly annoyed if we had been chatting to what we thought was a female (because of the sex label on the profile) then it came out that they had a penis. I would feel as if I had been lied to or deceived.
if people actually read our profile etc i don't think that would be a problem."
I believe you are correctly described as of the M/F sex. Your profile is informative on your gender and interests. I you had used F/F I believe it would have been misleading.
The confusion arrises when the search engine brings up a "woman" (sex) with a penis. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I don't want to get kicked of this web site so im going to shut up now. I came her for sex and can't be arsed to argue with people that are stuck 20 years in the past. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" I would be slightly annoyed if we had been chatting to what we thought was a female (because of the sex label on the profile) then it came out that they had a penis. I would feel as if I had been lied to or deceived.
if people actually read our profile etc i don't think that would be a problem."
It's a great profile. I don't see what the problem is. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" I would be slightly annoyed if we had been chatting to what we thought was a female (because of the sex label on the profile) then it came out that they had a penis. I would feel as if I had been lied to or deceived.
if people actually read our profile etc i don't think that would be a problem.
We'll even if I was browsing and come across a female profile and it mentioned they still had a penis I would still feel as if they were deceiving people as to me in a place were sexual acts are what most people are on here for then it does come down to what sexual organs the person has not what gender they or there ID says they are.
wouldn't it be easier just to click off the profile and move on to the next one?
"
We'll that is what I would do but I would still think they were deceiving people |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"if people actually read our profile etc i don't think that would be a problem."
We have read your profile and think it explains your situation perfectly, but in relation to the OP you are signed up as a M/F couple so not a problem in what he was asking.
If a physical male body type is on here or elsewhere as a female is that right / fair. Our opinion is that there should be a full honest profile so that nobody is misled.
Labels may be for cereals but they also come in handy on websites too, less important when meeting in person as it can be explained in conversation. but without eye contact / body language then we need labels. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" I would be slightly annoyed if we had been chatting to what we thought was a female (because of the sex label on the profile) then it came out that they had a penis. I would feel as if I had been lied to or deceived.
"
Should probably read the whole profile before chatting  |
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"what is in between your legs does not determine your gender. "
You're quite right. It doesn't.
But when seeking sexual partners it is a vital piece of information. Especially when seeking no strings sexual partners.
This is something I kind of have experience of. Due to health issues I have had major surgery which has changed my appearance dramatically. My continuing treatment has also had an impact on my appearance. When I was seeking meets I had a note in my profile stating this and asking potential meets to discuss it with me (I prefer not to say outright what the differences are on my profile or in the forums). Some people opted to say I wasn't for them. Others had no issue with it. Some just showed that they don't read profiles!
But it is important to make these disclosures in the early stages of arranging a meet - do I really want to get naked and meet disgust/shock/ridicule/abuse when I am already going through an unpleasant experience? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" I would be slightly annoyed if we had been chatting to what we thought was a female (because of the sex label on the profile) then it came out that they had a penis. I would feel as if I had been lied to or deceived.
Should probably read the whole profile before chatting "
I have already said a bit further up that even if I was browsing and come across a female profile then noticed it said they had a penis I would still think they were deceiving people |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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To me the argument we don’t need labels seems spectacularly flawed when attempting to defend the principle of an individuals right to use free expressionism to call themselves by whatever term suites their own agenda, if that same personn then objects to someone else’s right to use equally legitimate expressionism to define how they see them..
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"To me the argument we don’t need labels seems spectacularly flawed when attempting to defend the principle of an individuals right to use free expressionism to call themselves by whatever term suites their own agenda, if that same personn then objects to someone else’s right to use equally legitimate expressionism to define how they see them..
"
+2 |
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There are several viewpoints when it comes to this subject, here's a few, there's:
Sex: determined by your sex chromosomes,
Physical: determined by the appearance of your external genitalia,
Gender(identity): determined by how society perceives you,
Psychological: determined by how you feel, act and think
...frankly it's no wonder some people get confused... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"There are several viewpoints when it comes to this subject, here's a few, there's:
Sex: determined by your sex chromosomes,
Physical: determined by the appearance of your external genitalia,
Gender(identity): determined by how society perceives you,
Psychological: determined by how you feel, act and think
...frankly it's no wonder some people get confused..."
Yeah but on a site intended to allow potentially matching partners a fair and respectful chance to gauge sexual compatibility….
It would seem necessary to have a measurable guide that involves external genitalia otherwise every bloke with a pair of saggy man-boobs could elect to advertise himself as female...  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"To me the argument we don’t need labels seems spectacularly flawed when attempting to defend the principle of an individuals right to use free expressionism to call themselves by whatever term suites their own agenda, if that same personn then objects to someone else’s right to use equally legitimate expressionism to define how they see them..
"
It took me a few reads but I understand what you said now. 
From me too. |
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