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Islamic march, will it happen?

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By *ickmeallover OP Woman over a year ago

a very plush appartment off junt 7 M5

http://www.gazetteandherald.co.uk/news/4829123.Wootton_Bassett_defiant_over_muslim_march_plans/?ref=mc

I think/hope its just a publicity stunt

and that it never happens

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

If it were white people planning to demonstrate about muslims there would be such an uproar about inciting racial tension. It seems nobody has got the bollocks to stand up and say to these islamic extremists that there is no fucking way on God's earth they are demonstrating against British soldiers, in Wootton Bassett of all places.

If my memory serves me correct, weren't all Germans in this country monitored and/or interned while we fought WW2?

Are we not fighting a war on terror against muslim extremists?

So why are these fuckers allowed to walk freely among us?

An emotive issue this and this thread might get a tad heated.

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By *ickmeallover OP Woman over a year ago

a very plush appartment off junt 7 M5

Yes it is an amotive issue

There is talk of the locals using much spreaders if the do march

I sincerely hope that they do not

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think its appalling if this is allowed to happen.

In wooten basset of all places.

IT just adds insult to injury and those that say it can go ahead need their heads testing.or worse.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The people of Wootton Bassett have shown much dignity over the past 18 months and I think they would make more of an impact by simply locking the place down totally and allow no-one in or out. I've been there and it would be pretty simple to lock it down as it's basically a High Street with a few side roads in the main part of town. I've traced my roots back to 1595 in Wootton Bassett and I feel so strongly about this issue that I'm seething as I write this.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

the march is sure to go ahead, no one in power has the balls to stand up to minorities what ever their beliefs.

but on the good side does anyone take any notice of them, as my grandma used to say some wholesome ignoring is needed

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By *ickmeallover OP Woman over a year ago

a very plush appartment off junt 7 M5

"The people of Wootton Bassett have shown much dignity over the past 18 months and I think they would make more of an impact by simply locking the place down totally and allow no-one in or out. I've been there and it would be pretty simple to lock it down as it's basically a High Street with a few side roads in the main part of town. I've traced my roots back to 1595 in Wootton Bassett and I feel so strongly about this issue that I'm seething as I write this."

I agree with you

Not sure that the government can enforce it tho.

Its not exactly a terror threat.

But I would imagine that it could quite easily become very violent.

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By *ickmeallover OP Woman over a year ago

a very plush appartment off junt 7 M5

"the march is sure to go ahead, no one in power has the balls to stand up to minorities what ever their beliefs.

but on the good side does anyone take any notice of them, as my grandma used to say some wholesome ignoring is needed"

I think your right too

No one needs open any shops, pubs, no one show upm, not even the tv cameras

persona non grata

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If it were white people planning to demonstrate about muslims there would be such an uproar about inciting racial tension. It seems nobody has got the bollocks to stand up and say to these islamic extremists that there is no fucking way on God's earth they are demonstrating against British soldiers, in Wootton Bassett of all places.

If my memory serves me correct, weren't all Germans in this country monitored and/or interned while we fought WW2?

Are we not fighting a war on terror against muslim extremists?

So why are these fuckers allowed to walk freely among us?

An emotive issue this and this thread might get a tad heated. "

It does seem weird that if we were in their country im pretty sure we wouldnt be allowed to march down the street opposing the killing of Christians....But both wars are illegal, and since the Iraqi invasion(2003) over 120,000 innocent men,women and children have been killed. But what makes this whole "War on Terror" a fraud is that we were told Binladen was responsible for 9/11, with the help of 19 so called hijackers...well if that was true, how come Binladen isn't accused of 9/11 on the FBI,s most wanted list, and how come 12 of the so called hijackers have turned up alive and well. Plus the Binladen family and the Bush family have been in business together for over 23yrs and still are. I could list over a hundred discrepancies within the "Official Theory". You can see them for yourself if you go to google and type in "9/11 mysteries pt1 demolition" Or "Zero an investigation into 9/11 (this documentary was even shown at the European Parliament) to date there are over 80 documentaries on 9/11 and the so called "War on Terror".

Ps..Why is our media not showing all the facts about the "Underwear bomber" (Xmas bomber onboard a US flight) An eyewitness (Mr Kurt Haskell a US lawyer who was onboard the flight) said he saw the bomber arrive with a well dressed Asian man, who told the authorities at the airport that Umar Farouk aka underwear bomber, had no passport...but that it was ok for him to board the plane...it gets even more suspicious...but watch the CNN interview and decide for yourself.

Just type in Kurt Haskell in youtube or google.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I have my own opinions on the Xmas Day 'bombing'.

A know terror suspect is permitted to board an aircraft with no hand luggage and a one-way ticket.

And we have some new body scan equipment all ready and waiting to be deployed within days of this happening.

Now let's say that the attempted Xmas Day 'bombing' never happened and the UK & US govts said that full body scanners will be deployed across the both countries. Scanners that can see through clothing, invade your personal privacy and contravene your human rights.

There would have been an uproar.

But factor in a fresh new terror attack and hey, we're all for new technology that prevents these assholes from trying to kill us. We need protecting dontcha know.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I remember as a child hearing the insults of white people towards my parents. I asked them once why they didnt retaliate and my dad said you dont insult someone in their home. Being born here I have a different attitude but times have changed, no one would push me out of the way and say mind out Sambo now! Therefore the attitude of the muslim fundamentalist disgust me! We all know our 'glorious leaders' have started wars, sending more disgruntled, hate filled nations to these shores, but to plan a march in a town that welcomes home dead young men and women killed in the line of duty beggars belief! The government is spineless. Sending our young to die in a futile war is one thing, to allow this abomination leaves me speechless! What I cant understand: if they hate the British so much, why are they here?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I have my own opinions on the Xmas Day 'bombing'.

A know terror suspect is permitted to board an aircraft with no hand luggage and a one-way ticket.

And we have some new body scan equipment all ready and waiting to be deployed within days of this happening.

There would have been an uproar.

But factor in a fresh new terror attack and hey, we're all for new technology that prevents these assholes from trying to kill us. We need protecting dontcha know.

couldnt agree with you more,bang on the money...but apparently he didn't have a one way ticket, it was a return.

If you have time checkout "Kurt Haskell"

either google it or go to YouTube...P's its so nice to know that there are others who can see passed h bullshit.

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By *obbytupperMan over a year ago

Menston near Ilkley

The organiser of this publicity stunt is despised by mainstream Muslims and has suggested similar stunts in the past which were cancelled due to lack of support.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I would let it go ahead and have ZERO PUBLICITY..

no tv camera's , no photographs in the paper and the locals keep indoors.

they out for controversy.. best way to deal with these types, is ignore em .

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By *icelymarkedMan over a year ago

Cardiff

We are also rather annoyed at this march/protest idea so if it goes ahead we may get a posse up from Cardiff and crowd them out ... peacefully of course. And this from someone with no interest in politics, BNP etc!

And going to the colony of America is getting less and less appealing ... wonder if anyone would pay to cruise there instead of flying ... hmmmm there's a thought googles transatlantic liners for sale

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By *artin216Man over a year ago

Spilsby

"I would let it go ahead and have ZERO PUBLICITY..

no tv camera's , no photographs in the paper and the locals keep indoors.

they out for controversy.. best way to deal with these types, is ignore em .

Agree totally, These types require publicity to further their cause...No publicity = No recruits

Its a pity our press cant see it that way, and a pity people allow the press to inflame a situation.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Its a pity our press cant see it that way, and a pity people allow the press to inflame a situation.

Since when did the press become altruistic?

The press are interested in one thing only - circulation figures. Some twat, spewing hate-filled rants at the West, fills newspaper inches and sells. People like to know what's going on in the world and reporters/editors know this. But then if they didn't print these stories we'd feel that the govt is censoring it and that opens up a whole new can of worms.

I, for one, want to know that there are terrorists in our midst trying to kill us. It makes me more vigilant when out and about.

I know I suggested locking Wootton Bassett down earlier to freeze these fuckers out but I didn't mean close all the shops etc, why should they be allowed to disrupt local economics. What I meant was for the people of W/Bassett and the surrounding area to stand at the entrances to the town and say, "Enter, if you dare!"

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple over a year ago

Bolton

If they are going to do this clearly to provoke anger then fight fire with fire.

Why not just organise a naturists or simular meeting on the same day and have naked people all over the place.

To a muslim this would be far more of an affront to them than anything they could do to us and far more camera worthy too.

and best of all great fun lol

Steve xxxx

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By *obbytupperMan over a year ago

Menston near Ilkley

"If they are going to do this clearly to provoke anger then fight fire with fire.

Why not just organise a naturists or simular meeting on the same day and have naked people all over the place.

To a muslim this would be far more of an affront to them than anything they could do to us and far more camera worthy too.

and best of all great fun lol

Steve xxxx"

Yeah! with a pig-roast too!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The Muslim organiser was on tv last night and said he was already happy with the publicity he has already got. Maybe that will be enough for him.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

i think this man organisin this march and everyone who attends it should be booted back to where ever the hell they came from!!! im all for immigration as previous posts show when people want to come and settle into BRITISH life and work not when they want to change our history and our traditions and blow us to bits when we wont change OUR ways!!if this goes ahead then i know this country has finally gone completely crazy!! this is britain we are british well im actually scottish but you see where am comin from!!! x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Bit of a tricky one innit ?

They are saying that they are marching in memory of members of their religion who have been killed as a result of the war, so based on that description I dare say they are within their rights to do so and to be totaly honest I have no objection to them remembering their dead.

It has to be remembered that not ALL muslims are extremists.

Personally I think they've chosen the venue in which to 'remember' purely to inflame the situation and increase tension between Muslim and non Muslim groups and it is in bad taste.

But I don't know all the ins and outs of it all, so can only hope that if it does come to fruition that it does so with the minimum of fuss and ill feeling.

Again we need to remember that the majority of Muslims are good people, they have their rotton apples in much the same way as other religions

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

As soon as these arseholes start spouting about such ideas they should be arrested and put on the next plane back to a muslim country with their belongings in a bin liner.

We are not racist by any means but this government has done more harm to race relations than even Enoch Powell.

XXXX

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

The point is this.

We make a big song and dance about living in a democracy, that means allowing freedom of speach EVEN WHEN WE DISAGREE WITH THE MESSAGE.

Islam4UK is a front for a known terrorist sympathiser organisation and is only doing this to gain publicity (it's working).

I would say let it happen, but don't fling muck - turn out in clown costumes and stand there pointing and laughing. Ridicule is the best weapon agains these people.

If we ban it, they can show we are not a democracy - this is what they want.

Democracy is the weakness in their argument so they need to show the hollowness in our democracy.

Violence would have the same effect, so just laugh at them, then broadcast this around the world.

Imagine how effective it would be to see white. brown and black faces wearing clown costumes and laughing at them as they march past....

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple over a year ago

Bolton

"The point is this.

We make a big song and dance about living in a democracy, that means allowing freedom of speach EVEN WHEN WE DISAGREE WITH THE MESSAGE.

Islam4UK is a front for a known terrorist sympathiser organisation and is only doing this to gain publicity (it's working).

I would say let it happen, but don't fling muck - turn out in clown costumes and stand there pointing and laughing. Ridicule is the best weapon agains these people.

If we ban it, they can show we are not a democracy - this is what they want.

Democracy is the weakness in their argument so they need to show the hollowness in our democracy.

Violence would have the same effect, so just laugh at them, then broadcast this around the world.

Imagine how effective it would be to see white. brown and black faces wearing clown costumes and laughing at them as they march past...."

Good point i feel we should all turn up from the site.

Steve

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

"i think this man organisin this march and everyone who attends it should be booted back to where ever the hell they came from!!! im all for immigration as previous posts show when people want to come and settle into BRITISH life and work not when they want to change our history and our traditions and blow us to bits when we wont change OUR ways!!if this goes ahead then i know this country has finally gone completely crazy!! this is britain we are british well im actually scottish but you see where am comin from!!! x"

Er, isn't Scotland still part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain?

Scots will still be 'British' even after independence, unless someone is going to remove Scotland from the island of Britain!

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By *icelymarkedMan over a year ago

Cardiff

If we all go ... naked or in clown suits or whatever, can we all bring a teddy bear with a clear label on it .... Mohamed .....

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By *itchfieldMan over a year ago

Portsmouth

Really we should let the march go ahead because it's a free speech issue. However that doesn't mean we shouldn't march ourselves with placards of the Danish cartoons on them. The religious do not have a right not to be offended by other people not deferring to them (although the government tried to pass a law to give them that defence).

I also feel it should be pointed out that not liking Muslims/Islam is nothing to do with racism. Islam is a set of primitive superstitions and religious waffle. It's an idea not a group of humans with a physical similarity. You can no more be racist to someone based on them being Muslim than you can if they were Nazis.

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By *etillanteWoman over a year ago

I say let them hold the marches for the war dead

In Afghanistan and Iran, then close the borders

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

We agree with the sentiment of the march,none of us can agree with innocent civilians getting killed,no matter where or who they are.

However this idiotic extremist isonly using that as an excuse to promote his organisation,one that could harm this country and as such his democratic rights should go out the window.

Deport the fecker and any others like him.

Are there no laws on treason and sedition in this country anymore?

XXXX

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By *ig badMan over a year ago

Up North :-)

Marches maybe but not in Wootton Bassett and all policeing costs must be met by march organisers. But you do have to take into account this is a religion like the op said that supports fanatics breaking into a 70 yr old cartoonists house with a view to kill him. So maybe we as a country should be open minded but more watchful than we have in the past.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

i will say only this...when certain individuals from these shores are caught abroad either actually fighting against or in training camps to become fighters against the soldiers of this country and are taken to guantanamo bay for example, isnt it amazing how quick they suddenly become "british citizens" again in the hope our government steps in to free them???

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By *itchfieldMan over a year ago

Portsmouth

I think the thing that would upset these people the most would be to let them march. They don't want people to have a right to free speech or to protest. It completely confounds them that we have liberties in the West that they don't in their countries of origin.

As for the people killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, that's mostly been by the locals, not the allied forces. Bush and Blair boast that they had no plan and should be held accountable for that. There shouldn't be any implication that the huge numbers of people killed have actually been killed by our forces though.

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By *uton_coupleCouple over a year ago

luton

i can understand the way you feel but during WW2 when the germans living here were monitered the country was %95 made up of folk that had been here for generations

nowdays the country is fully multicultural

in other threads there are many that point our that our fighting forces include those from a wide spectrum or races and religions , including muslim

so when you talk of british soldiers some of them are of course muslim , and when you give it more thought , some of them might well be muslim extreemists

many people dont like political partys like the BNP , but we tolerate them as we have a freedom of expression , and when we criticise other countrys that are run by dictators we are quick to say that there populations are scared to open there mouth

the point i am trying to make is that the now , multicultural society of the UK is now made up in part by muslim extreemists

they are perfectly legal and free to go about there buissness just as the BNP , the labour party , conservative , etc etc etc

its no good complaining about it now its too late

if we didnt want to live in a multicultural society , with freedom of speech etc , we should have paid more attention the the likes of the rivers of blood speech

we didnt ............

so we are all just going to have to get used to it , like it or lump it

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By *i 1 Get 1 FreeCouple (MM) over a year ago

birmingham

"It has to be remembered that not ALL muslims are extremists"

Of course not, but 99% of extremists are muslim.

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By *i 1 Get 1 FreeCouple (MM) over a year ago

birmingham

"its no good complaining about it now its too late"

So we just sit back and accept whatever is thrown at us?

It's worth bearing in mind, this bunch of shit-stirring fanatics who are in favour of public hangings for gay people, or how about a few savage lashings if you happen to shag somebody and aren't married, try this one , how about publicly hanging a 12 year old from a tree for “allegedly” passing on information, quoted are just a few of there sinister wishes, therefore, they MUST be defeated at every opportunity.

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By *artin216Man over a year ago

Spilsby

"If they are going to do this clearly to provoke anger then fight fire with fire.

Why not just organise a naturists or simular meeting on the same day and have naked people all over the place.

To a muslim this would be far more of an affront to them than anything they could do to us and far more camera worthy too.

and best of all great fun lol

Steve xxxx"

LMAO...great idea..put my name down!!!!!

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By *artin216Man over a year ago

Spilsby

"The organiser of this publicity stunt is despised by mainstream Muslims and has suggested similar stunts in the past which were cancelled due to lack of support.

I read a report that his whole organisation consists of 500 members,

from a muslim population of millions it proves a point....

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

It does seem weird that if we were in their country "

We are.

Anjem Choudry was born in Welling.

This pile of hatred is born and raised here

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By *uton_coupleCouple over a year ago

luton

"its no good complaining about it now its too late

So we just sit back and accept whatever is thrown at us?

you dont seem to understand that those shit stiring fanatics as you call them that want to hang a 12 year old from a tree are in fact US

yes us ...... they are part of the multicultural society that we now live in

i think most people thought that as more and more people imigrated to the UK from all over the globe , they thought they were going to blend in and for example all eat roast beef and yorkshire pudding on a sunday , and go to night school and learn how to talk english

well they didnt ...........

they for example live in china town , eat chinese food , and talk in cantonese and wear chinese clothing

the same goes for most of the other segments of the multiculture

you are now merely one of the segments of that multiculture , so just as you sit there and complain about what muslim extreemist are saying , you have to accept that they are entittled to sit back and complain about YOUR veiws on life

just as you call them shit stiring fanatics , they are equally able to call me for example , a dirty swinging bisexuall bastard

so other than groaning or moaning about it all you can do is im afraid sit back and take it

this of course is not the case lets say in china

if you say anything there that is against the ways and beliefs of the MONO culture , you might get your head bashed in , put in prison for 70 years , or mayby if your lucky deported

but thats a MONO culture not a MULTICULTURE

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By *thwalescplCouple over a year ago

brecon

One point not mentioned so far is this......

The organiser of this event lives in our country, stirring up hatred, insulting our Armed Forces, calling for soldiers, sailors and airmen to be labelled as war criminals..... and he does ALL this whilst on BENEFITS!!!!

Yes, you, I, and every other tax payer are actually contributing to his upkeep!!!

From what I have seen, he also has a lifestyle that rivals ours, and we both work full time.

If he wants to live in a muslim country, lets send him to one, and see how much support he gets then!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I've believed for a very long time that there is a World War yet to be fought, and I believe it will be the difinitive one - a full scale religious war.

We, as a race, simply don't have the capacity to live with each other side by side with such differing views on God & the Creation. Most of us put up with it and say nothing but there are fundamentalists on all sides of the argument that steadfastly refuse to give ground to any other religion.

Christians were no different to Muslims 400 years ago when they crusaded against Saladin and systematically slaughtered many thousands of Muslims, so both sides have blood on their hands already.

What this says is that time has proven that no religion will win out in the end as you may be to suppress a nation but you cannot suppress an ideaology.

A religious World War will be catastophic for humanity but humanity won't realise it until after it has been fought. Then maybe, we'll have peace among the tribes of man.

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By *he_original_poloWoman over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"i think this man organisin this march and everyone who attends it should be booted back to where ever the hell they came from!!! "

Bradford?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"As soon as these arseholes start spouting about such ideas they should be arrested and put on the next plane back to a muslim country with their belongings in a bin liner.

We are not racist by any means but this government has done more harm to race relations than even Enoch Powell.

XXXX"

Well your safe there since Muslim is not a race it's a religion.

A fact that seems to confuse some people.

Islam is the Majority religion of 47 different countries and some of those would be bloody annoyed to be classed as the same race as each other.

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By *abioMan over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

I have been thinking about this....

the people of Wooten Bassett basically have never made this a political issue... all they have done is the decent thing and shown respect to the people that have died fighting for this country.....

freedom of speech is one of the things that we hold most dear to this country.... and a lot of people have died for that right, and to defend that right...

so I would let them have there demonstration... or parade...

however, if I was a resident of Wooten Bassett I would organise for the town to be "closed" that day for want of a better phrase.... it wouldn't have the same effect if these people go thru an empty town....

the backlash from everyone and from there own muslim community would shame them into retreating.....

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

"I've believed for a very long time that there is a World War yet to be fought, and I believe it will be the difinitive one - a full scale religious war.

Christians were no different to Muslims 400 years ago when they crusaded against Saladin and systematically slaughtered many thousands of Muslims, so both sides have blood on their hands already.

What this says is that time has proven that no religion will win out in the end as you may be to suppress a nation but you cannot suppress an ideaology.

A religious World War will be catastophic for humanity but humanity won't realise it until after it has been fought. Then maybe, we'll have peace among the tribes of man."

Actually Saladin's rise to prominence came about because of the Crusades, he was the man of the hour after the Franks (Europeans) invaded 'the Holy Lands' and created the Levantine Christian States.

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By *imfromGlasgowMan over a year ago

er...guess

Perhaps a 'guard of "honour"' formed up from the regiments and corps who've lost comrades in Iran or Afghanistan could be made available to 'welcome' Anjem Choudary and his cronies, should they decide to turn up.

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By *imfromGlasgowMan over a year ago

er...guess

"I've believed for a very long time that there is a World War yet to be fought, and I believe it will be the difinitive one - a full scale religious war.

Christians were no different to Muslims 400 years ago when they crusaded against Saladin and systematically slaughtered many thousands of Muslims, so both sides have blood on their hands already.

What this says is that time has proven that no religion will win out in the end as you may be to suppress a nation but you cannot suppress an ideaology.

A religious World War will be catastophic for humanity but humanity won't realise it until after it has been fought. Then maybe, we'll have peace among the tribes of man."

400 years ago? It was a wee bit further back than then.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I've believed for a very long time that there is a World War yet to be fought, and I believe it will be the difinitive one - a full scale religious war.

Christians were no different to Muslims 400 years ago when they crusaded against Saladin and systematically slaughtered many thousands of Muslims, so both sides have blood on their hands already.

What this says is that time has proven that no religion will win out in the end as you may be to suppress a nation but you cannot suppress an ideaology.

A religious World War will be catastophic for humanity but humanity won't realise it until after it has been fought. Then maybe, we'll have peace among the tribes of man.

400 years ago? It was a wee bit further back than then."

My apologies. It was around the 1060s I think, so more like 1,000 years ago, which makes it even more dramatic as here we are 1,000 years later STILL having a pop at each other.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I've believed for a very long time that there is a World War yet to be fought, and I believe it will be the difinitive one - a full scale religious war.

Christians were no different to Muslims 400 years ago when they crusaded against Saladin and systematically slaughtered many thousands of Muslims, so both sides have blood on their hands already.

What this says is that time has proven that no religion will win out in the end as you may be to suppress a nation but you cannot suppress an ideaology.

A religious World War will be catastophic for humanity but humanity won't realise it until after it has been fought. Then maybe, we'll have peace among the tribes of man.

Actually Saladin's rise to prominence came about because of the Crusades, he was the man of the hour after the Franks (Europeans) invaded 'the Holy Lands' and created the Levantine Christian States.

Let's not get pedantic about it, I'm aware of the Crusades and who fought who, where & when etc... I used Saladin's name in my post so that you'd know at a glance what I was referring to when I said Christians have blood on their hands too.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"...however, if I was a resident of Wooten Bassett I would organise for the town to be "closed" that day for want of a better phrase.... it wouldn't have the same effect if these people go thru an empty town...."

Block the exits from the M4, which is only minutes away from W/Bassett High St - and you've effectively sealed off the town from the outside. Only those who know the back lanes around and into the town will still be able to get in - and I've driven those back lanes and it takes a determined effort to find your way - even SatNav gets lost!

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By *imfromGlasgowMan over a year ago

er...guess

One person's pedantry is another person's accuracy and, if people are still at each other's throats because of something that happened all those years ago, a wee bit of historical accuracy is probably a good thing.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Or just maybe it's this so called pedantry that prevents us from understanding what's being said and feeling the need to continually correct each other.

Most people know of the Crusades, Saladin, Holy War, Jerusalem blah-di-blah and the data is freely available on the web so nothing I say here is going to counteract that.

Do you really want me to paste everything about all NINE crusades in here just for the sake of pedantry?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"i can understand the way you feel but during WW2 when the germans living here were monitered the country was %95 made up of folk that had been here for generations

nowdays the country is fully multicultural

in other threads there are many that point our that our fighting forces include those from a wide spectrum or races and religions , including muslim

so when you talk of british soldiers some of them are of course muslim , and when you give it more thought , some of them might well be muslim extreemists

the point i am trying to make is that the now , multicultural society of the UK is now made up in part by muslim extreemists

they are perfectly legal and free to go about there buissness just as the BNP , the labour party , conservative , etc etc etc

its no good complaining about it now its too late

if we didnt want to live in a multicultural society , with freedom of speech etc , we should have paid more attention the the likes of the rivers of blood speech

we didnt ............

so we are all just going to have to get used to it , like it or lump it "
Or not open the Pandora's Box in the first place by invading other peoples countries, splitting them in the name of the Empire, giving arms to one faction within a warring country so it's easy to enter, strip it, displace the people and be surprised they turn up on these shores filled with hate, not go cap in hand asking for help to rebuild the Motherland. Dont get me wrong I'm in agreement with the majority of posters here but you cant look at things in isolation: for every action there is a reaction, no one could foresee what would happen sadly.

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By *obblybitsCouple over a year ago

huddersfield

what is the difrent between islamic people demenstraiting against the war yet groups of british people did demanstrations all over the country topull our troops stop the war ect:

I don't see the difrence.

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By *imfromGlasgowMan over a year ago

er...guess

Or just maybe it's this so called pedantry that prevents us from understanding what's being said and feeling the need to continually correct each other.

Most people know of the Crusades, Saladin, Holy War, Jerusalem blah-di-blah and the data is freely available on the web so nothing I say here is going to counteract that.

Do you really want me to paste everything about all NINE crusades in here just for the sake of pedantry?"

I'll settle for accuracy in what you do post.

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By *emmefataleWoman over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

"what is the difrent between islamic people demenstraiting against the war yet groups of british people did demanstrations all over the country topull our troops stop the war ect:

I don't see the difrence."
arent a lot of these so called islamic demonstrators the holders of british citizenship?????

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By *obblybitsCouple over a year ago

huddersfield

ok ok pc and all that dose it help if I siad all the bloody hippys?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"what is the difrent between islamic people demenstraiting against the war yet groups of british people did demanstrations all over the country topull our troops stop the war ect:

I don't see the difrence."

One can demonstrate against oneself in one's own country but one's enemies should be silenced during times of war.

That's the difference.

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By *emmefataleWoman over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

"ok ok pc and all that dose it help if I siad all the bloody hippys?"
nope lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Or just maybe it's this so called pedantry that prevents us from understanding what's being said and feeling the need to continually correct each other.

Most people know of the Crusades, Saladin, Holy War, Jerusalem blah-di-blah and the data is freely available on the web so nothing I say here is going to counteract that.

Do you really want me to paste everything about all NINE crusades in here just for the sake of pedantry?

I'll settle for accuracy in what you do post."

Go google it then.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Or just maybe it's this so called pedantry that prevents us from understanding what's being said and feeling the need to continually correct each other.

Most people know of the Crusades, Saladin, Holy War, Jerusalem blah-di-blah and the data is freely available on the web so nothing I say here is going to counteract that.

Do you really want me to paste everything about all NINE crusades in here just for the sake of pedantry?

I'll settle for accuracy in what you do post."

Plenty accurate for me, conveyed the general gist quite nicely in fact

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By *ouvakMan over a year ago

clacton on sea

the trouble with events like this is they get far to much coverage, if the press/tv/radio all left it alone and paid it no attention in their dily bullein's it would or could pass unheard of and unknown.

I blame the media for it's sensationalizing of such events, if they refused to cover them on the same grounds as the public, ie if it aint reported it didn't happen.

the fact that the tv/radio and press will undoubtably be there will draw out the extremist's and trouble will no doubt be seen,infact i'd go as far to say that the mere fact the media will attend is all the more likely that orginised trouble will follow.

I praise anyone who stands against repression in any form,I opoenly praise the men and women of the nations who are currently trying to help other countries who have suffered under the rule of MEN who want to make their will the will of all the people around them, it's morally wrong it's contemptable,but we have always( well almost always) enjoyed a freedom in this country others aspire to, to the point they now live amongst us.

Being british myself i have no problem with them living here and enjoying the lifestyle we enjoy,but i do believe that when you live here then you live here under our laws our rules,you are after all expecting us to do the same when we live in your countries, We as Britton's enjoy a freedom most want, and they are entitled to enjoy while here, but there is the ultimate freedom ther seem to not understand,,, if you don't like our ways then you are as FREE to leave as your were FREE to come here.

SO I SHOUT TO ALL THOSE WHO DO NOT LIKE OUR WAYS , TAKE THE FREEDOM OF CHOICE YOU HAVE AND LEAVE AND GO BACK TO WHERE YOU CAN DO WHAT YOU WANT THE WAY YOU WANT IT ,but leave us to enjoy what we have earnt over the many yeaRS WE HAVE LIVED HERE

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By *imfromGlasgowMan over a year ago

er...guess

Or just maybe it's this so called pedantry that prevents us from understanding what's being said and feeling the need to continually correct each other.

Most people know of the Crusades, Saladin, Holy War, Jerusalem blah-di-blah and the data is freely available on the web so nothing I say here is going to counteract that.

Do you really want me to paste everything about all NINE crusades in here just for the sake of pedantry?

I'll settle for accuracy in what you do post.

Go google it then."

You're going to have to come to terms with the fact that google isn't infallible.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Touvak, the extremists we are debating here are not concerned with our 'freedoms'. They are not here to be as free as us or more free than they would be in their own countries.

They are here to spread the Islam message. That's how they see it, in much the same way early Christians did. Both religions believe they are on the side of the Right & Just and neither will ever give way to the other.

I'm sure the extremists over here are just as fervent about promoting their message as we are about silencing it.

I'm not in favour of banning the demonstration, I just think it would be far, far better for the people of Wootton Bassett to exercise their freedom to prevent undesirables from entering THEIR town.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

why is it that when we have a great topic to discuss people have to start sniping at each other over what appears to be small historical inaccuracies.

The bigger picture is what one man has another man craves and it doesn't matter if it's cloaked in the name of religion or for the good of the common man IF YOUV'E GOT IT I WANT IT AND I AM BIGGER THAN YOU.

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By *imfromGlasgowMan over a year ago

er...guess

The local authority/ council can ban a march on the advice of the Chief Constable but I don't think there's any way to ban people from just entering a town (short of giving them an ASBO).

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The local authority/ council can ban a march on the advice of the Chief Constable but I don't think there's any way to ban people from just entering a town (short of giving them an ASBO).

Have you never heard of a blockade?

Didn't motorists block petrol stations a few years back in protest at rising fuel prices?

Can the people of Wootton Bassett protest peacefully at the town limits if they so wish?

Accuracy in your posts please.

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By *acreadCouple over a year ago

central scotland

As said above no cameras no anti march protesters in fact empty the town except for a platoon of marines or such and let them march then machine gun the lot of them.

I know I will get pelters for saying this but they hate us and would do the same so gun the feckers down.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"As said above no cameras no anti march protesters in fact empty the town except for a platoon of marines or such and let them march then machine gun the lot of them.

I know I will get pelters for saying this but they hate us and would do the same so gun the feckers down."

Would that not bring us down to their level

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By *acreadCouple over a year ago

central scotland

Also go to Islam4uk website and see what these people have planned for our country should they ever be tyhe majority (which is a possibility the way the population is going).

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By *acreadCouple over a year ago

central scotland

[Removed by poster at 06/01/10 14:14:00]

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"As said above no cameras no anti march protesters in fact empty the town except for a platoon of marines or such and let them march then machine gun the lot of them.

I know I will get pelters for saying this but they hate us and would do the same so gun the feckers down.

Would that not bring us down to their level

The extremists plan to bring coffins into the town, let's bring soldiers into it too... that's what this is all about isn't it?

Let them demonstrate, and let them see that the coffins they carry don't care what colour or race the person inside it is. Let them see the real face of the soldiers they are protesting about - men with wives, children, fathers & mothers. Our soldiers are in Afghanistan fighting to afford the people of that country the same freedoms we enjoy here, they are not there terrosising innocent people nor shooting dead anyone who disagrees with them, children included. They have a clear mandate to seek out those who would inflict terror on their own people and prevent that from happening in the name of justice & freedom to live one's life to it's fullest capacity free from tyranny.

I know you're not having a pop bonks, and this isn't aimed at you - it's just a reply to the thread in general.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Wishy,

I am not having a pop, have spent all my adult life in a military uniform, have been to the place you mention and plenty of others and still would not wish to descend to their level.

That's what seperates the western world from this sort of fundamentalism

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Touvak, the extremists we are debating here are not concerned with our 'freedoms'. They are not here to be as free as us or more free than they would be in their own countries.

Wishy what part of "They were born here" are you not getting ?

The Chief cleric was born in Welling he is the son of a Welling market trader.

While I dissagree totally with his views, this get back to where you came from argument from just doesnt make any sense.

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"why is it that when we have a great topic to discuss people have to start sniping at each other over what appears to be small historical inaccuracies.

I echo Jimmys words.

Please lets keep a great debate without the need for sniping. It spoils it.

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By *acreadCouple over a year ago

central scotland

This is a christian country whether you are a practising christian or not

evryone in this country has the right to practice their religion but these ppl hate the fact that it is not only the Islamic religion that is allowed here and they want to change that their BARBARIC religeon according to some of them allows for non believers to be beheaded, and before anyone says that it is just the radicals who preach this ,there must be a lot of radicals in this world as Muslim countries execute their own daily for things that would not even get a second thought in the more civilsed countries

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

lets make it simple then... if you were born here and we are so bad why are you still here?? Britain doesnt have a great track record due to invasions n so forth but to have a group of extremists tryin to change our ways and blow us all away because we wont your sayin its ok cause they were born here??? see when your chained up and stoned etc for your lifestyle not fittin their ideal come back then!! the extremist stuff makes scary reading and when you add the numbers up we are going to be a minority and me personally il be out the country. i have no religion but damn sure im not havin someone elses forced on to me.

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By *imfromGlasgowMan over a year ago

er...guess

"The local authority/ council can ban a march on the advice of the Chief Constable but I don't think there's any way to ban people from just entering a town (short of giving them an ASBO).

Have you never heard of a blockade?

Didn't motorists block petrol stations a few years back in protest at rising fuel prices?

Can the people of Wootton Bassett protest peacefully at the town limits if they so wish?

Accuracy in your posts please."

There's no inaccuracy in my post. A blockade isn't the same as a ban.

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By *eorge17Man over a year ago

Leven

so your way of dealing with them is to machine gun them down - not a very christian attitude i would say

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Rugby,

Any chance you could step in and trim some of the pedantry out of this well intentioned debate

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

who is to say who is civilised and who is not ? when it comes to islamic affairs in an islamic country it is their right to do what they want . however having emigrated or living in this country as a muslim , i do feel that its a little bit hypocritical to live here but still hold extremist views . if they feel that strongly against the west why live here ? why not live in an islamic state such as iran where i am sure their right to protest will be warmly welcomed by the security forces . Fact is they want to live here i personally feel they need to intigrate better into the society and i know i am talking about a minority , but they really should abandon all this sharia laws etc etc in this country its the law of the land not the mosque that counts . islam in general has always struggled to seperate politcs and religion and always will , ands until they accept our rules and our way of living its not going to get better . as far as marching about the place screaming about illegal wars , exactly how many of them have actually been in a war zone ? how many know whats going on at ground level ? the boys are doing a job and the legality or moral questions that to me are pointless should never be raised in such a manner , its a slap in the face to returning troops . anyway rant over apologies if i offend .

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By *imfromGlasgowMan over a year ago

er...guess

Isn't censorship another thing we're supposedly fighting against?

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By *acreadCouple over a year ago

central scotland

Yes Jim do unto others is my motto and I wont apologise for it.

I said this is a christian country I didnt say I practised christianity and believe me this would be a very different place if these ppl had their way so yes get rid of these upstarts while you still can.

I am not talking about peacefull ppl here,they are going out of their way to provoke by marching in that particular town

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By *i 1 Get 1 FreeCouple (MM) over a year ago

birmingham

"lets make it simple then... if you were born here and we are so bad why are you still here??"

Their aim is to turn us into their way of thinking and living

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By *acreadCouple over a year ago

central scotland

And another thing Jim you wouldnt need cencoreship as there would be no freedom of speech, and every person associated with this site including you JIM would be at very great risk of death by stoning what do you think about that JIM would that suit you?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

im white (well except when iv been at the fake bake)

im not muslim am i allowed to be offended because someone wants to blow up me and my family over a dispute over whos gods bigger or better or because i dont fit into the shiat law or whatever or am i not allowed to be offended??? are my cultural beliefs not to be listened to or awknowledged?? and before the racist brigade start i dont give a shit about colour or religion as long as im not bein forced to obey it!!

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By *imfromGlasgowMan over a year ago

er...guess

"Yes Jim do unto others is my motto and I wont apologise for it.

I am not talking about peacefull ppl here,they are going out of their way to provoke by marching in that particular town"

Was this directed at me? If so I have absolutely no idea why.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"im white (well except when iv been at the fake bake)

You will do as you are told young lady or I am going to smack your legs for you

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

il opt for the public stonin or hangin if its available thanks !!!he he xxx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

you tube. great speeches, chaplin. draw your own conclusions

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

they are without preaching hatred and it is repugnant...

so is the hatred on many terraces on a sat afternoon... all over 11 men and a ball and the fanatics there would kick a supporter to the death...

and in town centres every weekend where they again gang up ( very unlikely on a 121 ) ...

there are many supporters to Islam who bring shame to the masses..

equally...... some very scary non Islamic people in this fine 'civilised' country....

let the march go ahead and ignore them..

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By *ouvakMan over a year ago

clacton on sea

a university lecturer has worked out that at the current rate of reproduction the MUSLIM community in this country will be able to vote in it's own parliment within then next 10 years.

it will out number the native british people by 3-1, then by christ will we have something to be scared of, we as a country need to become as one and fast, because it's no good trying to right something once it's been done , history alone proves this.

every time we were invaded we were subjected to then invading peoples will and ways, the only difference here is that the invasion is coming from within this time .

maybe the time has come for the british people to stand fast and keep britian the way it is and not allow it to become a totalitarian state

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"a university lecturer has worked out that at the current rate of reproduction the MUSLIM community in this country will be able to vote in it's own parliment within then next 10 years.

every time we were invaded we were subjected to then invading peoples will and ways, the only difference here is that the invasion is coming from within this time .

maybe the time has come for the british people to stand fast and keep britian the way it is and not allow it to become a totalitarian state "

It was said about 15 years ago that the city of Leicester would be the first all asain city in the UK hasn't happened yet !!!! all these so called surveys and quangos are just self serving idiots being paid to scaremonger

At the end of the day this is a Christian country and always will be whether you are a Christian or not.

When in Rome comes to mind here

we also have to remeber that this is a very very small group that are being castigated by their own people, and maybe we should let their own people deal with them.

You can only please all of the people some of the time

and some of the people all of the time

pheeeew !!!

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By *ouvakMan over a year ago

clacton on sea

THIS came via an e-mail but i think it's message is pointed and fits this debate, so i've copied and pasted it for all to read, it reflects a fear of offending others to a point where we no longer do what we want within our own country for fear of offending

After hearing that many cities did not want to offend other cultures by putting up Xmas lights, so DIDN'T!

After learning that the British Red Cross shops were instructed not to display Christmas decorations lest they cause offence. (A move which cost them my support thereafter.)

After hearing that the Birmingham council changed its opinion and let a Muslim woman have her picture on her driver's licence with her face covered. You try it!

After hearing of a Primary School in Birmingham where a boy was told that for PE they could wear Football League shirts (Aston Villa, Birmingham, West Brom etc) but NOT an England shirt as it could offend others !

This prompted the editorial below written by a UK citizen and published in a British newspaper.

IMMIGRANTS. NOT BRITONS, MUST ADAPT.

Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on London , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Brits.

However, the dust from the attacks has barely settled and the 'politically correct' crowd begin complaining about the possibility that our patriotism is offending others.

I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Britain . However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.

This idea of England being a multicultural centre for community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Britons, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of wars, struggles, trials and victories fought by the untold masses of men and women who laid down their lives and of the millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!

If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.. If St. George's cross offends you, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.

We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this.

But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way of Life, I encourage you take advantage of one other great British freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.

We didn't force you to come here. If you don't like it GO HOME!!

You asked to be here.. So accept the country that accepted YOU. Pretty easy really, when you think about it..

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By *eorge17Man over a year ago

Leven

think the prime minister of Australia got plaudits for saying much about the same about his country

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"Rugby,

Any chance you could step in and trim some of the pedantry out of this well intentioned debate

I find it ruins a great debate but the only think I can do is advise people to ignore it ( unless it gets disruptive of course ) then whoever is doing it might stop and get back to the real debate

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"THIS came via an e-mail but i think it's message is pointed and fits this debate, so i've copied and pasted it for all to read, it reflects a fear of offending others to a point where we no longer do what we want within our own country for fear of offending

I've seen and investigated most of the stories that are included in the piece you've cut & pasted-they are urban myths created by people with a divisive agenda.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

might be a bit harsh but it seems to me that most problems it this world are caused by religious disagrements.

i am not religious but think that others are intitled to them as long as they dont affect me.

why must we have religion thrust upon us and dont forget the english church has been doing this for years.

they tell us to look after homeless people but they are the biggest land owners in this country, but churches dont alow the homeless to sleep in them??????

the sooner religion is forgoten the better.

religious wars a defanition,,,

a fight about whos imaginary friend is best

nuff said

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By *ouvakMan over a year ago

clacton on sea

the real problem with this contry is APATHY we say alot, we think alot, but when it comes to action we don't do alot. we have a system in place in this country that allows us the people to make a choice, and do we use it???? do we heck as like, then we all sit back and whing and moan about this and that, and the loudest voice's tend to be those who didn't take the oppotuity to vote for what they wanted, in my opinion if you didn't vote you don't have a right to complain, action has always spoken louder than words, so if you want something from this country of yours then get out there at the next election and make it happen, don't sit back and expect someone to do it for you, cause it aint going to happen, and for every loyal british vote lost there will be a vote for those for whom we don't want in power, your X could save the country as we know it, your failure to vote will hand it over to those who want it, then lets see who whing's the loudest

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"the real problem with this contry is APATHY we say alot, we think alot, but when it comes to action we don't do alot. we have a system in place in this country that allows us the people to make a choice, and do we use it???? do we heck as like, then we all sit back and whing and moan about this and that, and the loudest voice's tend to be those who didn't take the oppotuity to vote for what they wanted, in my opinion if you didn't vote you don't have a right to complain, action has always spoken louder than words, so if you want something from this country of yours then get out there at the next election and make it happen, don't sit back and expect someone to do it for you, cause it aint going to happen, and for every loyal british vote lost there will be a vote for those for whom we don't want in power, your X could save the country as we know it, your failure to vote will hand it over to those who want it, then lets see who whing's the loudest "

im sorry but thats a very nieve view

do you really think the elected party run the country??????

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I always find the lyrics of the following Stereophonics song quite poignant:

"you can find youself a God,

Believe in which one you want,

Coz they love you all the same,

They just go by different names.

You can fly your flag today,

Are you proud or just ashamed?

It means nothing."

Says it all really.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

Or just maybe it's this so called pedantry that prevents us from understanding what's being said and feeling the need to continually correct each other.

Most people know of the Crusades, Saladin, Holy War, Jerusalem blah-di-blah and the data is freely available on the web so nothing I say here is going to counteract that.

Do you really want me to paste everything about all NINE crusades in here just for the sake of pedantry?"

Are you including the Albegensian Crusade in that?

(SORRY!)

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By *ouvakMan over a year ago

clacton on sea

I've seen and investigated most of the stories that are included in the piece you've cut & pasted-they are urban myths created by people with a divisive agenda.

"
was the person who displayed the piggy's supplied by a leading bank on her window sill a myth? no it wasn't and she was ordered by a court of the land to remove them because her "asian" nieghbour found them offensive, was the man who flew the british flag in his garden and told he couldn't do it an myth ? again no, and again he was ordered by a court of the land to remove it, because an "asian " also found it offencive.

where is the right of the common man in this land going to be in a few decades ?

the way i see it it will be in the hands of the very people we are debating at this very minute, the extremist's amongst us, and why ? because we are to affraid that by standing against thm we will in some way offend their sencabilities...... comeon wake up and smell the stench of our own demise

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Or just maybe it's this so called pedantry that prevents us from understanding what's being said and feeling the need to continually correct each other.

Most people know of the Crusades, Saladin, Holy War, Jerusalem blah-di-blah and the data is freely available on the web so nothing I say here is going to counteract that.

Do you really want me to paste everything about all NINE crusades in here just for the sake of pedantry?

Are you including the Albegensian Crusade in that?

(SORRY!)"

No, the Albegensian Crusade came after the Fourth Crusade and before the Fifth Crusade. The Albegensian Crusade focussed primarily on eliminating the heretical Cathars of Occitania (south modern day France) and was launched in 1209. At it's conclusion, both the Cathars and the independance of the south of France were exterminated.

source: WikiPedia

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

"This is a christian country whether you are a practising christian or not

And the United States - an avowed Christian Nation despite the Treaty of Tripoli - executes people for crimes committed when they were minors.

Your point is?

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

Or just maybe it's this so called pedantry that prevents us from understanding what's being said and feeling the need to continually correct each other.

Most people know of the Crusades, Saladin, Holy War, Jerusalem blah-di-blah and the data is freely available on the web so nothing I say here is going to counteract that.

Do you really want me to paste everything about all NINE crusades in here just for the sake of pedantry?

Are you including the Albegensian Crusade in that?

(SORRY!)

source: WikiPedia"

I know, medieval history is a fetish of mine, i was just pulling your leg!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Here's a wake up call for you.

I was raised in Luton, which has an Asian Muslim population of approximately 30,000 people. Many years ago the Muslim Council of Luton lobbied the sitting Council (Labour) for the right to fly the flag of Mohammed above the town hall on St George's Day. They argued that by flying the flag of St George alone, the council were promoting racial disharmony and that flying the flag of Mohammed at the same time would further racial integration and accord within the town.

The council capitulated and flew both flags on April 23rd.

They never flew them both again after that year as public outrage was so immense that they feared losing their seats in the very next election - which some of them did anyway as a form of electoral punishment.

Shortly after that incident, with the memory of it still fresh, a new mosque was built within the Muslim enclave within Luton. No sooner was it complete than a local person (presumably Christian) climbed the brick tower next to the dome and stuck a pig's head on the bottom point of the crescent moon. The blood from the pig dripped onto the copper dome and it had to be replaced at a cost of many thousands of pounds as it was considered unclean.

Many, many people in Luton applauded that.

Were they all racist? The whole town?

No, they weren't. They were scared. And they were pleased that someone was making a stand - a point our politicians make well take heed from.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Reading thru all this stuff is like a being in a microcosym of the UK. When u aegue about pedantics, what hope is there to address bigger topics? And religion per se is not to blame: it's individual's interpretations that cause divisiveness. Would a secular county- no queen?- be better able to deal with this?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I think the local police authority will ban it as it is so contraversial and likely to lead to trouble.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There is on facebook

A sign up of all those opposed to the march suggested by the extremists.

Last total i saw was summat like half a million.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I've seen and investigated most of the stories that are included in the piece you've cut & pasted-they are urban myths created by people with a divisive agenda.

was the person who displayed the piggy's supplied by a leading bank on her window sill a myth? no it wasn't and she was ordered by a court of the land to remove them because her "asian" nieghbour found them offensive, was the man who flew the british flag in his garden and told he couldn't do it an myth ? again no, and again he was ordered by a court of the land to remove it, because an "asian " also found it offencive.

where is the right of the common man in this land going to be in a few decades ?

I hate to add fuel to the fire but arent views you hold part of the problem, what makes you right and others wrong

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

There is nothing wrong with marches to increase public awareness, however choosing to hold your march in the town where the bodies of British Servicemen Killed in Action arrive from overseas and where thier funeral cortege is taken through the streets is nothing more than an attempt by extremists to increase racial tension.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

"who is to say who is civilised and who is not ? when it comes to islamic affairs in an islamic country it is their right to do what they want . however having emigrated or living in this country as a muslim , i do feel that its a little bit hypocritical to live here but still hold extremist views . if they feel that strongly against the west why live here ? why not live in an islamic state such as iran where i am sure their right to protest will be warmly welcomed by the security forces . Fact is they want to live here i personally feel they need to intigrate better into the society and i know i am talking about a minority , but they really should abandon all this sharia laws etc etc in this country its the law of the land not the mosque that counts . islam in general has always struggled to seperate politcs and religion and always will , ands until they accept our rules and our way of living its not going to get better . as far as marching about the place screaming about illegal wars , exactly how many of them have actually been in a war zone ? how many know whats going on at ground level ? the boys are doing a job and the legality or moral questions that to me are pointless should never be raised in such a manner , its a slap in the face to returning troops . anyway rant over apologies if i offend . "

Young men from a Muslim background are taking to religious extremism as a way of combating a changing social structure i believe.

As in any revolution, young Muslim women are/have been at the forefront of social change in traditional Muslim societies in this country.

They have often been the first in their families to go to university and that has offered them a very different life to that of their mothers generation.

These girls are breaking away, breaking tradition and taboos and the young men see their traditional place as the head of their family/social group eroding.

They sometimes fall back on old traditions, they cling to these as a drowning man clings to a rock in a stormy sea.

The numbers of these extremists are very disproportionate to their volume but they will have sympathy amongst other, more silent Muslims. This does not mean all Muslims are hate-filled suicide bombers in the same way that all white ethnic brtions are not members of the BNP or SnG.

This illegal war has created a heaven-sent opportunity for the Islamists to recruit dis-affected young men (& women) into their ranks just as the British occupation of Ulster prompted dis-affected young Catholics to turn to PIRA. We (or rather our Gvt.) have created this opportunity, we need to turn it back on those who want a religious state in the UK.

For those who make fanciful claims to the creation of a Religious Extremist state in the UK remember, we tried that once & didn't much enjoy the experience. The system we now have in place was designed to stop that happening again.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Totally agree, but a slightly different slant on it, and from one whos hubby served in Iraq, why are we having such high profile repatriation of bodies, it didnt used to happen.

Before i get hate mail, i mean no disrespect. Just a different angle.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

"Totally agree, but a slightly different slant on it, and from one whos hubby served in Iraq, why are we having such high profile repatriation of bodies, it didnt used to happen.

Before i get hate mail, i mean no disrespect. Just a different angle."

I think that is because the military demand it.

Look at the flak GW Bush got from not filming the repatriation of American soldiers killed on ops. It was horribly detrimental to his cause & this Govt are terrified of making the same mistake.

They don't want us reminded of the human cost of the war yet are terrified of preventing us from seeing it!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

this is a great debate and long may it run.I think the one thing we all have to look at here is that this so called protest march will never happen !!! the guy has not approached the police or the local council to apply to march.

This has been done so he and his kind (extemists) get public exposure.

I the press had not picked up and started to run with this I personally believe we would not have an issue.

It is however very refreshing to see people's beliefs and idea's and I for one think that all this freedom of speech is what makes this the best country in the world to live in....And I would invite anyone here to disagree with that.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is on facebook

A sign up of all those opposed to the march suggested by the extremists.

Last total i saw was summat like half a million.

Thanks for that. I just joined it.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

"this is a great debate and long may it run.I think the one thing we all have to look at here is that this so called protest march will never happen !!! the guy has not approached the police or the local council to apply to march.

This has been done so he and his kind (extemists) get public exposure.

I the press had not picked up and started to run with this I personally believe we would not have an issue.

Unfortunately Islam4UK have already achieved their aim.

From being an almost-unknown group of radicals with no pulling power they have achieved maximum publicity for their stated stupidity, if that brings in a few extra donations to Al-Muh-whatever they front for then mission accomplished.

They were never going to march. The only wished for a higher profile and to whip up anti-Islamic feeling to show their fellow Muslims how 'hated' (the phrase they will use) they are by the 'Crusaders' (their term).

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

With less than 3 years before we retire then we are definitely off out of it, so sorry Jimmy but I have to disagree

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"With less than 3 years before we retire then we are definitely off out of it, so sorry Jimmy but I have to disagree

Yes I can see what you are thinking and to be honest I thought the same way.

But I had a look round to see where I would like to go and you know I couldn't find anywhere that could top this place !!! and I live in Liverpool lmao.

So take a look round and dont give up to quickly

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Further to my last if hubby had have been killed in Iraq i would not have wanted some phoney politician or Army chief saying what a great guy he was, when he didnt know him from Adam!Much better low key private funeral.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

" was the person who displayed the piggy's supplied by a leading bank on her window sill a myth? no it wasn't and she was ordered by a court of the land to remove them because her "asian" nieghbour found them offensive, was the man who flew the british flag in his garden and told he couldn't do it an myth ? again no, and again he was ordered by a court of the land to remove it, because an "asian " also found it offencive.

where is the right of the common man in this land going to be in a few decades ?

I'm sorry _ouvak I have to disagree, it quite simply isnt an offence to display a pig because it might cause offence to Muslims. I dont generally get upset about things of this nature because most rational people can see them for what they are. Think about it, if it were true a lot of pig farmers would be out of business and supermarkets would have to remove bacon from their shelves when Muslims complained.

The flying the flag is also an interesting one, I see hundreds of Union & St George flags being flown when there are national sporting events taking place-the only problem that exists from a legal perspective is where homeowners erect flag poles to their property without first seeking permission, those that do, have permisssion granted without any difficulties.

The earlier comment about Muslim women being allowed to have their driving license pictures taken whilst wearing the veil is clearly nonsense too-the guidelines for pictures is well established on the DoT website as it is for the passport office.

The only reason that anybody would have to complain about somebody else's behaviour is if it broke the law-not if they didnt like the look of pigs or having a picture of the face taken.

I thought this lifestyle engaged people who could think outside the box and not judge people and things at face value, it would appear some of us are as narrow minded as the worst, which is a shame.

I dont mean to fall out with you over this, but Ive had many a heated discussion disputing stories like these, having checked whether they're factual. Ginger

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"With less than 3 years before we retire then we are definitely off out of it, so sorry Jimmy but I have to disagree

Yes I can see what you are thinking and to be honest I thought the same way.

But I had a look round to see where I would like to go and you know I couldn't find anywhere that could top this place !!! and I live in Liverpool lmao.

So take a look round and dont give up to quickly

At 52 I have had plenty of time to ponder and forgetting all the social and financial shortcomings the climate alone is enough to make me want to leave

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"There is nothing wrong with marches to increase public awareness, however choosing to hold your march in the town where the bodies of British Servicemen Killed in Action arrive from overseas and where thier funeral cortege is taken through the streets is nothing more than an attempt by extremists to increase racial tension."

..what they said

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By *ouvakMan over a year ago

clacton on sea

[I hate to add fuel to the fire but arent views you hold part of the problem, what makes you right and others wrong]

who said i was right or wrong to hold such views, they are after all just my view's on the subject,i'm not asking nor am i going to ask anyone to share them, but as a free individual of this country surly i'm allowed a point of view and the freedom to express it, after all isn't that what this debate is truly about!!!! our FREEDOM to hold an opinion and express it openly without being subjected to cencorship of anykind

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Further to my last if hubby had have been killed in Iraq i would not have wanted some phoney politician or Army chief saying what a great guy he was, when he didnt know him from Adam!Much better low key private funeral."

It was the people of Wootton Bassett that started welcoming fallen heroes home. As RAF Lyneham is so close to the town, the funeral cortege's had to pass through it to get them to wherever in the UK they had to go. The people of Wootton Bassett turned out in their hundreds to begin with to say farewell to them on their final journey.

The politician's saw the politcial mileage in this and now inform any organisations that wish to turn out at a repatriation ceremony of dates & times.

Which leads me nicely onto a solution for this proposed Islamic march at a repat ceremony - delay the flight and notify those genuine wellwishers at the very last moment. Most of them are local anyway and the families of the fallen will be the first to hear of when/where etc.

The extremists will then find themselves protesting to an empty street with no TV cameras present.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

HE would have gotten the funeral of YOUR choice but the move from RAF Lyneham to the mortuary prior to the coroners inquest always takes the same route.

God forbid it's ever me but I would be proud as fuck to think people were paying there respects in such a fashion, as would my family

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

" was the person who displayed the piggy's supplied by a leading bank on her window sill a myth? no it wasn't and she was ordered by a court of the land to remove them because her "asian" nieghbour found them offensive, was the man who flew the british flag in his garden and told he couldn't do it an myth ? again no, and again he was ordered by a court of the land to remove it, because an "asian " also found it offencive.

where is the right of the common man in this land going to be in a few decades ?

The only reason that anybody would have to complain about somebody else's behaviour is if it broke the law-not if they didnt like the look of pigs or having a picture of the face taken.

I thought this lifestyle engaged people who could think outside the box and not judge people and things at face value, it would appear some of us are as narrow minded as the worst, which is a shame.

I dont mean to fall out with you over this, but Ive had many a heated discussion disputing stories like these, having checked whether they're factual. Ginger"

Thank you.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

The group proposing this, chose the one town in the UK that repatriates our deceased servicemen and females.

Their motives are able to divide everyone into choosing a side either pro Islam or anti.

I have been to a repatriation service as the dead are loaded onto the C-17. Please remember when Jabron Hashmi died, he was praised as a keen devoted member of the army. "He went to Afghanistan hoping to build bridges between the east and the west".

By denying this group a right to parade you need a suitable explanation, by ignoring them as many have suggested you are still letting them parade.

Ban the march/parade all you are doing is letting tensions simmer. A compromise that would suit everyone should suffice.

Me personally I would allow every btn in full Public Order kit to line the high street. It is funny how your bottle goes when you see a picket line ready to harm you. I am not suggesting a show of force would change their minds.

If anyone finds the above unpalatable please accept it as my personal opinion.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

this is actually turnin out to be a good post!! the facts are there the ba worker who had to take her cross off in case it offended someone?? my granny gettin asked to leave a warehouse because she was in a wheelchair?? its a 2 sided coin!!!

a small amount cant come to a country and live in harmony with everyone else so the extremists want it all the freedom that comes with this country and to change it to suit what they believe at the expense of the people who share the same faith but accept that they are in a different country with different traditions and rules. im not fully aware of the muslim faith and to be honest have no intention to but i definately do not want to be converted or ruled by somethin that has no relevance to me or my life! the mojority of muslims i do have contact with are peaceful and have also been here for years and have intergrated in certain parts of our culture. i dont want to deny them the right to practice what they do and a mosque doesnt offend me or ramadan or whatever else. its the hardcore i think should be booted out this country. we are heading for a full scale religious war and civil unrest at a price we will count for years to come whatever happended to love thy neighbour and i dont mean the programme!! x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"... whatever happended to love thy neighbour and i dont mean the programme!! x"

I'm loving some of them.... frequently!!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"... whatever happended to love thy neighbour and i dont mean the programme!! x

I'm loving some of them.... frequently!!

lol!! xxx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The group proposing this, chose the one town in the UK that repatriates our deceased servicemen and females.

Their motives are able to divide everyone into choosing a side either pro Islam or anti.

By denying this group a right to parade you need a suitable explanation, by ignoring them as many have suggested you are still letting them parade.

Ban the march/parade all you are doing is letting tensions simmer. A compromise that would suit everyone should suffice.

If anyone finds the above unpalatable please accept it as my personal opinion. "

There can be nothing construed as unpalatable in your post, it's a sane reflection on a difficult situtaion :o)

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Thanks Ginger

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

After hearing that the Birmingham council changed its opinion and let a Muslim woman have her picture on her driver's licence with her face covered. You try it!

You appear to be well informed _ouvak, so did you not stop to think when it became a council responsibility to issue driving licenses?

That should have immediately set alarm bells ringing regarding the truthfulness of this story-councils have no involvement in the approval of driving licenses..it's the DVLA!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"If it were white people planning to demonstrate about muslims there would be such an uproar about inciting racial tension. "

I dont support the march, but as far as I can see it isn't Muslims demonstrating about white people.

The offence is them seeking to protest about Muslim dead in Afghanistan in a village associated with the repatriation of our servicemen.

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By *imfromGlasgowMan over a year ago

er...guess

After hearing that the Birmingham council changed its opinion and let a Muslim woman have her picture on her driver's licence with her face covered. You try it!

You appear to be well informed _ouvak, so did you not stop to think when it became a council responsibility to issue driving licenses?

That should have immediately set alarm bells ringing regarding the truthfulness of this story-councils have no involvement in the approval of driving licenses..it's the DVLA!"

Isn't there an internet rule about never letting the facts get in the way of a good rant ?

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By *ugby 123Couple over a year ago
Forum Mod

O o O oo

"If it were white people planning to demonstrate about muslims there would be such an uproar about inciting racial tension.

I dont support the march, but as far as I can see it isn't Muslims demonstrating about white people.

The offence is them seeking to protest about Muslim dead in Afghanistan in a village associated with the repatriation of our servicemen."

And why I think it is extremely bad taste and as the people who want the march know this it is obvious it is done to inflame.

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By *imfromGlasgowMan over a year ago

er...guess

There's a suggestion above that the proposed march will take place to coincide with a cortege passing through Wooton Bassett.

Does anyone have any evidence to stand this up?

PS. Check out the Facebook group re this.

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By *artin216Man over a year ago

Spilsby

The group proposing to march are adamant they will not march if there is a funeral that day.

It seems the rumour mongers and scare mongers are posting anything and everything on all sites in an attempt to inflame the situation

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By *yronMan over a year ago

grangemouth

Which was the crusade to what became Prussia?

(Medieval history has the same fascination for me!)

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By *imfromGlasgowMan over a year ago

er...guess

"The group proposing to march are adamant they will not march if there is a funeral that day.

It seems the rumour mongers and scare mongers are posting anything and everything on all sites in an attempt to inflame the situation

Thank you.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"After hearing that the Birmingham council changed its opinion and let a Muslim woman have her picture on her driver's licence with her face covered. You try it!"

Eh?

Council - driving licences ? Since when .... Mine has always come from Swansea - and not from the council

Think you've fallen into the 'urban myth trap' Touvy ... with this one at least

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"a university lecturer has worked out that at the current rate of reproduction the MUSLIM community in this country will be able to vote in it's own parliment within then next 10 years.

every time we were invaded we were subjected to then invading peoples will and ways, the only difference here is that the invasion is coming from within this time .

maybe the time has come for the british people to stand fast and keep britian the way it is and not allow it to become a totalitarian state "

hmmm england maybe up here we didnt have that problem lmao

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"The group proposing to march are adamant they will not march if there is a funeral that day.

It seems the rumour mongers and scare mongers are posting anything and everything on all sites in an attempt to inflame the situation

It is not a matter of wether or not a funeral takes place that day it is the fact that they have chosen to march in the town where they take place at all.

Why not choose Walsall, there is a larger Muslim community (and very nice they are too) here than there are white non-muslims.

It is clear (though obviously not to some) that a minority are deliberately trying to invoke racial hatred where there is none.

Just because we are not racist, just because we are not racially tollerant, just because they can, some would like to change the way we think.

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By *i 1 Get 1 FreeCouple (MM) over a year ago

birmingham

"Why not choose Walsall, there is a larger Muslim community (and very nice they are too)"

They know they wouldn't receive the Muslim support, the mere fact most Muslim's find them abhorrent and fail to support them, may, just may receive more publicity than they anticipated, better to hold it in a non Muslim location.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Why not choose Walsall, there is a larger Muslim community (and very nice they are too)

Yeah, like Tel Aviv!

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By *he_original_poloWoman over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"a university lecturer has worked out that at the current rate of reproduction the MUSLIM community in this country will be able to vote in it's own parliment within then next 10 years.

it will out number the native british people by 3-1, ...."

What exactly does this lecturer specialise in? It sure isn’t analysing the UK Census reports!

Source: KS06 Ethnic group: Census 2001, Key Statistics for local Authorities and KS06 Ethnic group: Estimates 2007.

By ethnic group:

White = 45,082,900 = 88.2%

Asian or British Asian = 2,914,900 = 5.7%

Black or Black British = 1,447,900 = 2.8%

Mixed = 870,000 = 2.8%

Chinese, including British Chinese = 400,300 = 0.8%

Other = 376,100 = 0.7%

Religion in England

• Christian: 71.75%

• No religion: 14.81%[13]

• Not stated: 7.71%

• Muslim: 2.97%

• Hindu: 1.06%

• Sikh: 0.63%

• Jewish: 0.5%

• Other: 0.29%

• Buddhist: 0.28%

Source: UK census - Table KS07 Religion.

So unless it’s only Muslim’s breeding for the next 10 years (and you only have to watch Jeremy Kyle to see that’s not so… but may feel it would be such a bad thing in some cases)…you can see this lecturer is pretty much talking out of the hole between his butt cheeks… or it’s just some more BMP crap.

Hitler told people what they needed to hear to help them feel comfortable with picking out a group to hate and blame for their economic situation... one thing history should teach us is…. it’s always best to check the facts before staking the ground ready for shackling a scapegoat.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Fookin top post polo! You are one sassy lady and I've enjoyed your posts over the years but that's ya best I think. Who wants to argue wiv ya, I fookin don't lol

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

I hope they don't march.

They would taint a town that has shown such dignity and has bought a certain amount of comfort to the bereaved.

I've been to Wootton Basset.

The restraint, dignity and loyalty they show is nothing short of remarkable.

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By *iker BullMan over a year ago

leeds

I agree,not all muslims are terrorists,,but it seems all terrorists are muslims,,and no I dont mean eta and the like for the hair splitters amoungst the general population.

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By *he_original_poloWoman over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"I agree,not all muslims are terrorists,,but it seems all terrorists are muslims,,and no I dont mean eta and the like for the hair splitters amoungst the general population."

There are a few factions of the IRA which may object to being referred to as Muslims.

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By *he_original_poloWoman over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"Fookin top post polo! You are one sassy lady and I've enjoyed your posts over the years but that's ya best I think. Who wants to argue wiv ya, I fookin don't lol

Thank you.

I am sure someone will wish to argue... sometimes the facts are not as comforting as the bullshit which some people ignorantly choose to embrace… it helps them justify their prejudice.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I agree,not all muslims are terrorists,,but it seems all terrorists are muslims,,and no I dont mean eta and the like for the hair splitters amoungst the general population.

There are a few factions of the IRA which may object to being referred to as Muslims."

Why they stuck up PLO flags all around Drumcree, at least 2 of the B@stards were from Egypt.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Judging by a lot of what has been written so far today the Daily Mail has quite a lot to answer for

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"I hope they don't march.

They would taint a town that has shown such dignity and has bought a certain amount of comfort to the bereaved.

I've been to Wootton Basset.

The restraint, dignity and loyalty they show is nothing short of remarkable."

The Queen can infer honours upon a town by giving it a 'Royal' status. Thus Wootton Basset would become Royal Wootton Bassett. As my family herald from Wootton Bassett in the 1590s I'd be immensely proud if the Queen honoured my ancient family seat in such a way.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Judging by a lot of what has been written so far today the Daily Mail has quite a lot to answer for

Siren refuses to have that rag in our house. It's more than obvious bias infuriates her and she finds it's stories depressing.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

if you feelin brave take a wander over to the facebook page wow it makes emmm interestin readin!! one thing is showin through and its that most of the population is agains it x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"if you feelin brave take a wander over to the facebook page wow it makes emmm interestin readin!! one thing is showin through and its that most of the population is agains it x"

That's because 88.2% of the population is White British and, of those, 71.75% are Christian.

Thanks polo lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

After hearing that the Birmingham council changed its opinion and let a Muslim woman have her picture on her driver's licence with her face covered. You try it!

You appear to be well informed _ouvak, so did you not stop to think when it became a council responsibility to issue driving licenses?

That should have immediately set alarm bells ringing regarding the truthfulness of this story-councils have no involvement in the approval of driving licenses..it's the DVLA!

Isn't there an internet rule about never letting the facts get in the way of a good rant ? "

LOL, quite true Jim, it's a good job Im being abducted by aliens tonight for a gangbang!

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By *i 1 Get 1 FreeCouple (MM) over a year ago

birmingham

"if you feelin brave take a wander over to the facebook page wow it makes emmm interestin readin!! one thing is showin through and its that most of the population is agains it x"

An estimated 1 million people marched in protest against the war in Iraq, and the outcome was?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

well done polo for bringin education to the forums!! xx

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"well done polo for bringin education to the forums!! xx

Yeah she dont say much but when she does!!!

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By *he_original_poloWoman over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"if you feelin brave take a wander over to the facebook page wow it makes emmm interestin readin!! one thing is showin through and its that most of the population is agains it x

That's because 88.2% of the population is White British and, of those, 71.75% are Christian.

Thanks polo lol

And if just 1% of the 88.2% believe rubbish like 'Muslims will out number us 3-1 in the UK over the next 10 years' then that's 4.5 million idiots

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"before staking the ground ready for shackling a scapegoat."

I agree with others polo, some great contributions from you on this subject-one thing though is this reference to something from the fetish world???

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

can I just say that in my earlier post I said "we are not racially tollerant" when anyone knows me knows I am and I meant to say that this country was in general very racially tollerant as the figures attest to.

I have been a migrant worker and I remember with admiration the thousands of Sikh Warriors who died at Monte Casino and other war zones defending this country and the British Commonwealth. The Ghurkahs, who I believe to be amongst the Top 4 British Army units and the New Zealanders, Canadians, Africans, Jamaicans, Austrailians, Fijians, Irish, Welsh, Scottish and many other nations who have fought for England and Great Britain.

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By *he_original_poloWoman over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"before staking the ground ready for shackling a scapegoat.

I agree with others polo, some great contributions from you on this subject-one thing though is this reference to something from the fetish world???

Now you are confusing outdoor standard scapegoat shackles with bedroom shackles... one should never confuse the two

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This idea of England being a multicultural centre for community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Britons, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of wars, struggles, trials and victories fought by the untold masses of men and women who laid down their lives and of the millions of men and women who have sought freedom."

Touvak, I'm guessing that the writer of the piece you quoted wasnt aware that the British Services are multicultural and always have been.

Many thousands of non British people have died and been injured whilst fighting for the Britsh armed forces through history.

In fact the most recent recipient of the Victoria Cross was born in Grenada.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Now you are confusing outdoor standard scapegoat shackles with bedroom shackles... one should never confuse the two

I think I could develop an affection for the former instead of the latter lol

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"can I just say that in my earlier post I said "we are not racially tollerant" when anyone knows me knows I am and I meant to say that this country was in general very racially tollerant as the figures attest to.

Well said jednsasha, you got to make this point before I did

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

"I hope they don't march.

They would taint a town that has shown such dignity and has bought a certain amount of comfort to the bereaved.

I've been to Wootton Basset.

The restraint, dignity and loyalty they show is nothing short of remarkable.

Lets see what she does in 2011 when she celebrates her Diamond Jubilee.

If she's gonna do it, that's when I suspect she will

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By *acreadCouple over a year ago

central scotland

Jedandsasha the Scots Irish and Welsh did not fight for England as England is NOT Great Britain and i think that comment is an insult to the rest of the soldiers of the UK countries who have died fighting for not England but Britain.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

However I write this it comes out sounding very patronising but Touv et al should really be cut some slack as they are simply a by product of the slanted approach just about all the modern media are about.

Polo's facts show just how almost every day the red tops etc are able to whip the country into a frenzy with a couple of outrageous headlines.

If this lot march we are probably not even talking a few hundred of which most will be sheep as opposed to true believers.

Some serious perspective is required here but that dont sell news papers

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By *oyston VaseyMan over a year ago

Sheffield- Pothole City

cant say how strongly i feel anout this idiot Choudray being allowed to spout his bile and hatred.

This idiot should be arrested and deported ASAP

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

"Which was the crusade to what became Prussia?

(Medieval history has the same fascination for me!)"

A campaign by the 3rd Holy Military order, the Teutonic Knights (bunch of corrupt thugs) at the invitation of the Order of Dobryn to bring Christianity at swordpoint to the pagans of old Prussia

Took them approx. 70 yrs but managed to 'civilise' them by circa 1300AD.

Not the most glorious episode in Christian history.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

"Judging by a lot of what has been written so far today the Daily Mail has quite a lot to answer for

Siren refuses to have that rag in our house. It's more than obvious bias infuriates her and she finds it's stories depressing."

The Daily Mail - a silly and less accurate version of the Daily Mash

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

"Jedandsasha the Scots Irish and Welsh did not fight for England as England is NOT Great Britain and i think that comment is an insult to the rest of the soldiers of the UK countries who have died fighting for not England but Britain."

Remember that Irish and Welsh soldiers, along with Indian, American territories etc BEFORE the Act of (Scottish) Union in 1707 fought in the English Army.

The phrase was 'England & Britain' which to my mind is accurate.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"This idiot should be arrested and deported ASAP

To where? He's England born.

This thread has shown that where we disapprove of what some people say we cannot prevent them from saying it.

Choudray has the support of a couple of hundreds of followers, probably the sympathy of a few thousand non-active muslims in this country and the full support of his paymasters hiding in the Pakistan hills.

We, however, are a nation of some 65 million people with a rich history spanning some 7,000 years way back to the prehistoric britons, right through to Roman Britain, Anglo Saxon Britain, Medieval Britain & the present United Kingdom. We are comprised of peoples from all corners of the globe and we have affected technological, cultural, ethical and moral development in every country we have ever been in.

So, bearing all that in mind, do you honestly believe Choudray has a cat in hell's chance of changing anything about what makes us quintessentially British?

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By *acreadCouple over a year ago

central scotland

The phrase was arrogant in the writer seems to think that England IS Britain,

why wasnt it fought for WAles and Britain or Ireland and Britain or Scotland and Britain.

Indeed why not just fought for Britain.

Read again Scots,Irish and Welsh fought for England and Britain.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

more pedantics. cheesh!

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By *acreadCouple over a year ago

central scotland

And where do you get Scottish union from how can they unite with themselves?

It was the union of the crowns to which was supposed to be equal.

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By *acreadCouple over a year ago

central scotland

Sorry if I am being pedantic but it does make me angry when people think England is the UK it is not there are 4 nations in the UK.

And the march should be banned getting back to the thread subject.

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By *etitesaraTV/TS over a year ago

rochdale

"The phrase was arrogant in the writer seems to think that England IS Britain,

why wasnt it fought for WAles and Britain or Ireland and Britain or Scotland and Britain.

Indeed why not just fought for Britain.

Read again Scots,Irish and Welsh fought for England and Britain."

Nope, don't see it.

Wales has (legally) been part of England for centuries and the political entity of 'Britain' did not exist until the Act of Union created the United Kingdom in 1707, & as i suspect you know very well the Act of (Scottish) Union is so written as to differentiate it from the Act of (Irish) Union which happened later.

If the poster had simply said 'England' i would have been tempted to agree, but they clearly stated 'England & Britain'. As non-English & non-British troops fought under the English Flag before the 1707 Act then they are correct.

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By *adchickCouple over a year ago

Cyprus

"The phrase was arrogant in the writer seems to think that England IS Britain,

why wasnt it fought for WAles and Britain or Ireland and Britain or Scotland and Britain.

Indeed why not just fought for Britain.

Read again Scots,Irish and Welsh fought for England and Britain.

Nope, don't see it.

Surely we should be united in the fight against extremism.

Not against, who said what or who meant what on the forums

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By *acreadCouple over a year ago

central scotland

Yes _adchick you are 100% correct.

I will say no more about anything other than the subject.

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By *iker BullMan over a year ago

leeds

perth west australia

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By *iggles and BeardyCouple over a year ago

Bristol

Let them march..

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By *he_original_poloWoman over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"Let them march.."

You could be right.

I kind of hope the march would go ahead (peacefully) BUT (this is a big ‘but’) only if it was getting the attention it deserves – which without all of the current publicity it’s now getting from people jumping up and down about it (and all of the twisted views flying around) would have been possibly 50-100 people walking through a small market town later getting mentioned in a few local papers.

I have no problem with people paying peaceful respect or performing an act of remembrance for innocent civilians killed during a time of conflict… IF that is what they intend to do. This may well be this guy’s cover story, but if left alone that is all this march ever would have been… people of the Muslim faith paying respect for people of the same faith killed as a consequence of where they live.

I do agree it is more than insensitive to hold the march in Wootton Basset… but then the intended location needs to be controversial to get the media/public attention and achieve much more than the expressed intentions.

The march doesn’t need to go ahead… in fact banning the march may well achieve more than allowing it. This guy is already achieving much more than many stop to realise. Think of how many forums and networking sites are talking about it… oh yeah they may be filled with people opposing it and a good mix of ignorance, prejudice and let’s face it… a good dose of outright racism against ALL Muslims.

Think about it… how do you convert more people to an extremist cause? One way is to make people feel hated, isolated, unfairly treated and threatened. The cries of “send them all back where they came from” falling on the ears of the lad born in Bolton… why shouldn’t you be allowed to publicly pay respect to innocent relatives and followers of your family’s faith, killed as a result of a war? That’s how it starts.

Threads like this (though I doubt he’ll be posting links to a swinging site) all help fuel the extremist recruitment machine. I have no doubt the location of the march was chosen to get maximum attention and stir up a frenzy of uncensored objections … all useful as extremist propaganda… looks like he’s getting what he wants.

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

I was actually trying to be respectfull in that Wales and Scotland are Nations within the UK and worthy of thier individual contribution to Britain, shame how the written word is so easily interpreted to mean the opposite of what we intend to say.

I appologise unreservedly to anyone offended and can only offer my lack of education as a feeble excuse (failed my 11+ and have no GCSE's or GCE's to help me.

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By *leasureDomeMan over a year ago

all over the place

nice post polo .

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By *he_original_poloWoman over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"nice post polo ."

Thank you kind sir x

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Young men from a Muslim background are taking to religious extremism as a way of combating a changing social structure i believe.

As in any revolution, young Muslim women are/have been at the forefront of social change in traditional Muslim societies in this country.

They have often been the first in their families to go to university and that has offered them a very different life to that of their mothers generation.

These girls are breaking away, breaking tradition and taboos and the young men see their traditional place as the head of their family/social group eroding.

They sometimes fall back on old traditions, they cling to these as a drowning man clings to a rock in a stormy sea.

i agree with most of what you have said there , young muslim men do see their social staitus declining within the muslim world , and the way they are trying to deal with it is just wrong . however the point about ulster in my view has nothing to do with this , the social circumstances and rules were entirely different , and as much as the news does not bother with it anymore they are still suffering badly over there , and over there it has nothing to dow ith religion , coulor of skin or land anymore , its purely drugs , so from my point of view its very very different .

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By *imfromGlasgowMan over a year ago

er...guess

Are you saying the problems in Ulster have nothing to do with religion?

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

"Yes it is an amotive issue

There is talk of the locals using much spreaders if the do march

I sincerely hope that they do not"

Love this idea

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By *yronMan over a year ago

grangemouth

Sara, I agree, the Crusades were the lowest point of Christianity's history. Mind you, the 'Special Daughter' status Scotland got in the 12th century was a high point in my book!

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By (user no longer on site) over a year ago

Are you saying the problems in Ulster have nothing to do with religion?"

absolutely , its nothing to do with religion anymore , thats just a recruitment tool for use on the estates , its very easy to give someone a feeling of belonging and community when such things are used when in reality alll parties unionist and republicans are mascarading behind this to do thier dirty deals with other such similar groups , if in doubt i would look to see how an umbrella organistion such as the uda and the opposite side the ira funded themselves through the 80's even with the help of the british government ( which is denied but easily proven ) loyalists were selling drugs in large qauntities to anyone as were the ira . to me this is very different from what is going on in the muslim community and the reasons for proposing such a march especially in such a sensitive place of the uk .

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By *eedshornycplsCouple over a year ago

leeds

salaam malacum outside in 5 miutes mate

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